My Millennial Daughter's Message on Voting for Hillary

Submitted by Steven D on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 10:55am

I am posting this verbatim from my daughter's Facebook page:

This has been weighing on my mind a lot lately and I want to just put it out there. I won't vote for Hilary Clinton in the general election if she wins the democratic nomination. I can't speak for all Sanders supporters many of whom may not have the same opinion of Secretary Clinton that I do but for those who do you have a right to your own vote. No one can force you to vote for a candidate you don't believe in or that you don't trust. Some people will mock you or call you immature or a sore loser. Others will try to scare you of a impending Trump or Cruz presidency (which are both truly frightening) to get us to vote for her but in all honesty I don't want to vote for Secretary Clinton for many of the same reasons I won't vote for a republican candidate (though not all the same reasons). Our country is stronger than you think and a republican president, even a crazy one, can't destroy that strength. I think it may take a republican presidency for the DNC and the Democratic establishment to realize that it needs to change in order to get the support of Sander's supporters. My advice is not to let fear rule your decision because that is how democracy fails. I encourage people to vote for the candidate that they believe in and not just the lesser of two evils in the general election.

I had no idea she planned to make a public statement about not voting for Hillary Clinton, but I couldn't be prouder. She's right. Time to stop fearing the Republican Big Bad Wolf, when the Democrats have their own Big Bad Wolf who could very well do as much or more damage to the 99% as any Republican in the Oval Office.

After all, it wasn't Poppy Bush who got NAFTA through Congress, passed a Welfare Reform Act that harmed millions, and passed a crime bill that led the way to mass incarceration and the rise of the private prison industry. And it wasn't a Republican President that deregulated the telecommunications industry and then, for good measure eliminated the last of the New Deal securities laws that prevented banks from becoming "too big to fail" when he signed the bill killing The Glass-Steagall Banking Reform Act. That action alone is considered by many the root cause for the 2008 financial crisis.

No, it was a Democratic President, Bill Clinton, and other "New Democrats," who did so much to wreck the lives of millions of Americans over the past 20 years (unless they earn $300,000 or more per year). And now the Democratic Party wants to foist another Clinton on us, one backed by wealthy billionaires and Wall Street firms, for profit charter schools, online for profit colleges, Silicon Valley, Walmart, the Military Industrial Complex and the fossil fuel industry that is literally poisoning our planet in arguably the single largest human rights crime in history, among so many other bad actors.

So, I agree with my daughter. One. Hundred. Percent.

Tags:

#BernieorBust #JustSayNotoHillary #Bernie

Vote

Comments

Submitted by Raggedy Ann on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 11:05am

You have a wonderfully courageous daughter, StevenD.

You have every right to be proud. As a young woman, she is verbalizing - very publicly - what most of us are saying here - among ourselves. Your daughter is a truth-teller who has the courage of her convictions. Congratulations.

—

"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

Submitted by Steven D on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 11:07am

Thanks Raggedy Ann

I feel blessed.

—

"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott

Submitted by Hillbilly Dem on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 12:08pm

She sounds like a "chip of the ol' block" to me!

Good for her and good for you. As some around here in the sticks would say "she had good fetchins' up".

—

"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey

Submitted by Hillbilly Dem on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 1:10pm

I gotta tell ya, Hillary Clinton drives me up the wall.

How can anyone support this Republican wannabe? I try to warn (otherwise) (somewhat) reasonable Dems that Hillary is bad news, but I feel like the guy in The Invasion Of The Body Snatchers...nobody will listen. Their minds are made up. So I guess it's Back To The Future...1990s style. Ugh.

—

"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey

Submitted by Ken in MN on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 4:39pm

I'm still pissed...

...that we don't have flying cars, real hover boards and Black and Decker Pizza Rehydrators...

—

I want my two dollars!

Submitted by fladem on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 11:06am

I will vote for Clinton

I remember 2000, and Nader, and a War that started that wouldn't have.

It is not a hard decision for me.

But let me suggest something else. Right now Clinton looks like she is going to blow Trump out. IF that is the case, then there is an argument for voting for a third party candidate. Doing so would help make clear that there are enough progressives that matter, and that there is a difference between Clinton and them.

To be clear, this is a big if. It Trump v Clinton is a 5 point race, I think not voting for Clinton if you care at all about Gay rights, women's rights and getting money out of politics (replacing Scalia accomplishes all of those) is irresponsible.

But if this a 10-15 point race the argument for voting against Clinton becomes more defensible.

Submitted by Steven D on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 11:12am

I live in NY

I expect Hillary to win this state because the Democratic nominee always wins NY. So I suppose that make it an easy question for me.

But I don't agree that Hillary will be all that great a champion of gay rights or women's rights. She talks a big game, but I think many people, especially young women don't trust her to protect their interests. And she is as likely, if not more likely, in my view to involve us at an ever greater level in wars around the world.

My opinion, FWIW

—

"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott

Submitted by fladem on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 12:07pm

Steve

your a lawyer. You now there are 5 votes:
*To sustain Roe
*To sustain Gay Marriage
*To sustain Obamacare
*To sustain Citizens United

Those are just four key decisions. If Clinton does nothing else but replace Scalia with a reasonable replacement, women and gay rights are protected for a generation, and Citizens United is overturned.

Submitted by Raggedy Ann on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 12:13pm

I don't believe she will replace Scalia

with a reasonable replacement. If Obama can nominate someone like Garland - HRC will nominate someone much more to the right.

—

"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

Submitted by Borkrom on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 12:52pm

Great point and right on

HRC is a liberal Republican at best- she is a PINO (Progressive In Name Only) and she does what is best for her and her class of the elite.

She is not going to nominate a liberal to the court. She is going to pick someone that will get confirmed. So best case scenario a moderate to a conservative lite candidate. She will just want the historical record to show she was successful with her selection- she will not fight for what is best decision for the country or just- not her style. She is like many executives I have seen during my career, a lot of fluff and no stuff- no courage and they just want to look good. She is a manager not a leader.

Submitted by Raggedy Ann on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 12:43pm

Let's not give her that opportunity.

At least - those of us in this community will do all we can to stop her from being elected. I'll bet Trump's sister would be better than anyone HRC would nominate. The thought of that cracks me up. Fear not, compatriots!

—

"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

Submitted by Caerus on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 2:32pm

Get the Democratic Party out of the Clutches of the Clintons!

I agree 100% with your daughter!
Thank you for posting her comments.
Think we, as a country, will survive, prosper, and the advantage of destroying the Republican party AND the Democratic Party which won't change while the Criminal Clintons are still in power! They are still the DLC/Third Way.
NO WAY will I vote to put the Clintons back in the White House.

Think the "Nader" line is a strawman, past it's sell by date. Nader was running on the Green Party ticket. Al Gore didn't win his home state. Couldn't even carry AK. It was a debacle from beginning to end. Still think the BLAME rests with Clinton, not resigning, and allowing Al Gore to be the incumbent President. Al Gore and GOD FORBID Joe Lieberman - Joe Lieberman as VP, think of that ( not on a full stomach or you'll get sick)
Then the Democrats try to win with Kerry and Edwards. John Edwards. Another nightmare avoided.

Time for Progressives to organize. According to BNR there will be a People's Summit in June.
How about a People's Progressive Party.

Again, thanks to your daughter for her eloquence, and courage, and clarity!

Submitted by MinuteMan on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 9:24pm

AK=Alaska

Couldn't even carry AK.

Dems rarely carry Alaska.

Submitted by Timmethy2.0 on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 12:43pm

I would be suprised if she picked a Citizens United repealer

—

Beware the bullshit factories.

Submitted by Raggedy Ann on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 12:46pm

Ditto. eom

—

"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

Submitted by Lady Libertine on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 2:34pm

I would be shocked

if she picked a CU repealer and she will also ensure TPP goes through, so we're pretty well farked with her in the Oval Office. Within 4 years. Probably about when I'm still two years shy of getting Medicare and so they'll bump the age on that too. So... no quarter here at Chez Lib.

Submitted by Timmethy2.0 on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 5:17pm

Yeah not a lot to lose

by voting for Jill Stein or Hopefully, Bernie, instead of Hillary.

—

Beware the bullshit factories.

Submitted by Lovo on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 6:31pm

If Bernie doesn't get the nom

I'm writing him in.

Submitted by JuliaW on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 6:36pm

Again-unless Bernie has filed the paperwork in MOST states

your vote will not be counted, or noticed Unless that happens to be the case in your state, you are better off noting your disapproval of the Ds by voting Green or Socialist, or whoever else is on your Presidential ballot
"Although a write-in candidate is not entitled to ballot placement, he or she may still be required to file paperwork in order to have his or her votes tallied (or to be eligible to serve should the candidate be elected). In 35 states, a write-in presidential candidate must file some paperwork in advance of an election. In seven states, write-in voting for presidential candidates is not permitted. The remaining states do not require presidential write-in candidates to file special paperwork before the election. See the map below for further details."
https://ballotpedia.org/Ballot_access_for_presidential_candidates#Requir...

Submitted by Lovo on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 6:56pm

There are no filing requirements in my state

Submitted by Shahryar on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 1:33pm

and as to that war that shouldn't have happened...

we're not about to reward a woman who voted for it to advance her political ambitions and who, most of us believe, would have done the same as Bush if she'd been President then.

Submitted by ZimInSeattle on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 2:54pm

A justice on the high court who would overturn CU. Without CU HRC would not have had the $$$ needed to compete with Bernie

—

Orwell was an optimist

Submitted by NonnyO on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 6:39pm

I think you are correct

Gay rights might be okay. Only might. LGBT people may have to go back in the closet if Hillary joins her Rethug friends in condemning them (like DWS smoothed the way for her Rethug friends and ignored the Dem candidate she was supposed to promote in FL). IF we're really, really lucky, DWS will be voted out of office.

BUT..., Hillary is waaaaay too close to The Fellowship, aka The Family, for my comfort level, and besides which, if she gets the White House, she will inherit Dumbya's 'office of faith-based initiatives which Obama retained (something I didn't think a constitutional scholar would be dumb enough to do). Hillary wants the reichwingnut vote, so she'll leave that unconstitutional and illegal office in place.

That means they have inroads to the executive offices and the people who actually write laws, and they may very well get Roe v. Wade overturned, and/or ban birth control and once again criminalize abortion..., yes, with a woman president, no less. I could see women taking to the streets over that issue.

I do not remember just now what her carefully-chosen exact words were regarding women's health or choice, and I don't have the patience to try to find the video (can't stand her voice anyway), but it raised flags in my mind regarding whether women's rights would survive a first Hillary term (heaven forbid there be a second!), and then there was her usual "tells" to let me know she was lying. Drives me bonkers.

Besides the fact that she's a warmongering DINO, add women's rights and gay rights and the failure to expand Social Security & Medicare to include Medicare for all in the top five reasons not to vote for Hillary, and that's enough for me ("protect" Soc Sec is right up there with Bill & Newt's collaboration to "protect" it by privatizing Soc Sec)..., altho my actual list for reasons NOT to vote for Hillary is much longer.

—

I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute ..., where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference. — President John F. Kennedy, Houston, TX, 12 September 1960

Submitted by PriceRip on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 11:14am

Safe State

Your analysis does not apply universally. Neither I nor my daughter (add in my wife as well) will be voting for HRC, . . . Period.

Submitted by Pricknick on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 11:15am

In all honesty

Gore did not lose because of Nader.
Gore was a horrible candidate who lacked initiative, backbone and the fortitude to stand up to a fight. Look how easily he bowed to the powers that be instead of fighting for what he rightly won. He was not supported by many in his own party, including myself and I didn't vote for Nader.
To me, the Nader excuse is just another fear card that the democratic party uses to scare the uninformed and fearful.
It won't work this time either.

—

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Submitted by RichM on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 11:27am

Three words

Joe Fucking Lieberman.

—

Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?

Submitted by Damnit Janet on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 11:37am

Two words

Tipper Gore.

I couldn't vote for anyone whose loved one promoted hate and censorship as mush as she did.

—

"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison

Submitted by NWIA on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 12:47pm

Even shorter

Al Gore.

I voted for Nader in FL more as an anti-Al vote as much as a pro-Ralph vote. There is still so much complexity to that awful election:

Even if I and others had not voted for Nader, Bush was going to win. There was do much corruption in Tallahassee and beyond that regardless of the votes, Bush was going to win

My hope had been that the Dems would recognize that loss as a disaster...how could a well respected veep of a popular prez lose to a dimwit? But they didn't learn a damn thing. Next up, John Kerry, a better option than Gore, but not the visionary required to take down the most obviously incompetent president since before FDR. Milquetoast should never have been on the menu.

Which is why Obama seemed awesome. Willing to speak about our mistakes, he seemed poised to shift us from mindless war and torture back to the more pressing daily needs of our citizens. Seemed, and then nothing.

So why the hell should anyone support Clinton? We still kill without as many of our soldiers dying. We still allow the rich to fuck with our environment, climate, health, and financial future. We still don't punish the wealthy when they commit crimes, we allow cops to kill when they feel like it, we let every breather own a gun, we allow dunderheaded cowboys to shoo feds off "their" property, and we still have an overzealous system of spying on citizens. I could go on. But the Supreme Court has been shit for years. It was the Supreme Court, after 8 years of a Clinton, that certified Bush. So tell me that a hypothetical Clinton II SC will be different. Please.

I will not vote for a Dem for president unless s/he is a progressive. That's it. Done.

Submitted by Damnit Janet on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 12:54pm

I voted for Nader as well

The election was already stolen, rigged. So I vote with my feet more often than not now.

—

"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison

Submitted by Damnit Janet on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 12:54pm

I voted for Nader as well

The election was already stolen, rigged. So I vote with my feet more often than not now.

—

"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison

Submitted by Caerus on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 3:05pm

Al Gore, one of founders of DLC

and picks Joe Lieberman for VP.
Disgust all around.

Submitted by Caerus on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 3:05pm

Al Gore, one of founders of DLC

and picks Joe Lieberman for VP.
Disgust all around.

Submitted by Alphalop on Fri, 04/29/2016 - 2:03am

Back in my younger days when I was a DJ

Tipper Gore actually called our Radio Station when she was head of the PMRC. (I hosted two shows in the late 80's "Heavy Metal Tuesday" and "Black Friday" where we played hard core metal music)

She went on and on about kids killing themselves listening to our kind of music. I asked her, "Well, are you going after Bing Crosby's estate?".

To which she laughed and said, "Why would I do that?" and so I explained to her that statistically the album most people have committed suicide to while listening was White Christmas (A fact that I had just learned in a trade magazine as this was a hot issue at the time.)

She quickly derailed that point of conversation so my on air partner, at this point being quite frustrated said to her, "Take a look at your radio, you will notice there are two dials. One turns the volume up and down and the other changes the station, if you don't like what we play why don't you just change the damned station."

She then proceeded to use her clout with the FCC to get his air license yanked for two months for that statement. Something that had such a serious financial impact on him we had to organize fund raisers to keep him in his home.

That was one of the many reasons while even though I was at that time still a republican that was leaning left that I voted for Nader.

The party loves to blame others for it's losses. The mantra is, "The Democratic party cannot fail, it can only be failed." apparently...

The fact that they cannot bother to nominate candidates that actually inspire people to vote for them is apparently not a factor...

—

"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

Submitted by Damnit Janet on Fri, 04/29/2016 - 9:32am

I once thought I was a Republican as well.

I didn't know better. Young. Military brat .
Then I woke up.

Then I thought I was a Democrat. Then I realized there is no difference. Both parties are only in it for the power and money.

Tipper Gore... her censorship legacy lives on. I bought an album the other day, Yeah... I still fucking buy music the old fashioned way.... and it had BEEPS in it. I failed to see the little "lyrics" tag on it stating that in the United States of America someone can BEEP music.

Tipper Fucking Gore. They tried to shove that down our throats. Then when we said oh hell no and voted Nader, they blame us for their own BS.

You debated with her. Good for you. You and Frank Zappa, baby.

But sadly we are stuck with her little censorship stickers. We are stuck with Democrats still trying to gag us and tell us to just vote for them so they can fuck us over even more than Republicans.

—

"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison

Submitted by Wink on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 11:50am

Gore beat himself

Jeebus, all the public talk about "alpha male" and what sport coat to wear... I swear he had Repubs running his campaign. And, Bubba's lack of support spoke volumes.

—

the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Submitted by wilderness voice on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 2:05pm

Gore wouldn't let Bill

campaign for him cause Monica and all.

Submitted by Timmethy2.0 on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 5:26pm

That Clinton White House was a bad soap opera

Being subjected to it again is my second biggest worry next to the destruction of the World.

—

Beware the bullshit factories.

Submitted by fladem on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 11:55am

It was one of the reasons

he lost. Gore was a bad candidate. OK. That doesn't change a basic fact: if Nader doesn't run Gore wins.

Submitted by Raggedy Ann on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 12:14pm

Actually, you'll never know this.

None of us will ever know. It's moot at this point. We need to look forward, not backward. We need to move forward with courage, not fear.

—

"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

Submitted by labryon on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 12:16pm

What about the 200K in FL who voted republican

but were registered democrats?

Submitted by fladem on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 1:00pm

You mean all those

Democrats in the Panhandle who hadn't voted for a Democratic President in a generation?

I see this argument as someone who was there I know how wrong it is. It may appear reasonable, but to anyone who was in Florida at the time it is a silly argument.

Submitted by Shahryar on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 1:09pm

you mean the Nader voters who would have voted for whoever...

the Green Party candidate was and had no intention of voting for Gore? Come on! You can't absolve the Dems who vote Republican while choosing to go after the lefties. I mean, you can, but you'd be wrong.

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Thu, 04/28/2016 - 11:36am

Break out of Nader voters

in Florida in 2000. And by the way, I am a lifelong Floridian except for the first two years of my life and I live in Tallahassee which is in the panhandle.

This is from the Wikipedia article on Ralph Nader's 2000 Presidential run.

Nader received 97,421 votes, which led to claims that he was responsible for Gore's defeat. Nader, both in his book Crashing the Party and on his website, states: "In the year 2000, exit polls reported that 25% of my voters would have voted for Bush, 38% would have voted for Gore and the rest would not have voted at all."[18] (which would net a 13%, 12,665 votes, advantage for Gore over Bush.) When asked about claims of being a spoiler, Nader typically points to the controversial Supreme Court ruling that halted a Florida recount, Gore's loss in his home state of Tennessee, and the "quarter million Democrats who voted for Bush in Florida."[7]

What happened in 2000 with Ralph Nader is somewhat analogous to what is happening in 2016. Many voters of all stripes are disgusted with the status quo. Both parties are corrupt and the Democratic party has let its base down much worse than the Republicans have done to their base. No candidate is owed a vote. The candidates and their parties must earn those votes. Apparently the Democratic party has not learned its lesson from the bloodbath of 2014 and continues to foist upon its base a very flawed and poor candidate.

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Submitted by Alphalop on Fri, 04/29/2016 - 2:11am

I REALLY need to find a gif of a slowly building golf clap...

Because this comment right here deserves one.

—

"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

Submitted by movie buff on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 12:17pm

"If Nader doesn't run Gore wins"

Okay, but what you're arguing for is fewer options. Less democracy. The continued domination of two corrupt, calcified parties.

At 2%, Ralph Nader didn't exactly do great, but he only did as well as he did because Gore left so much space wide open to his left. There was restlessness among left-leaning voters in 2000. The Dems had held the White House for eight years; a lot of us wanted to take two steps forward on policy. Yet Gore left all that space open on his left because, in the calculation of the New Dems, the left "has nowhere else to go."

A lot of us are pretty sick and tired of being taken for granted by this calculation, and by the galling fact that in the sixteen years since Bush vs. Gore, the Democratic establishment clearly hasn't learned a thing. That's why the restlessness is back. That's why "the Republicans are worse" doesn't scare us anymore. The Dems have again held the White House for eight years, and now we want to take our two steps forward. Yet we're told we must take one step back. The reasons for this never make a lot of sense, but they basically add up to "because it's Hillary Clinton's turn."

And what does that make us? A corrupt, calcified party.

Bernie or bust, that's what I say.

—

"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum." --Noam Chomsky

Submitted by Raggedy Ann on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 12:27pm

Well said, movie buff! eom

—

"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

Submitted by movie buff on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 12:36pm

Thank you

It may hurt establishment Dems' tender ears to hear this, but in the American electorate, there is a LOT of space to the left of Bernie Sanders. Especially among those who don't necessarily see themselves that way. As liberals and/or Democrats, we need to stop simply accepting the options we're given. That's not the way conservative activists roll.

—

"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum." --Noam Chomsky

Submitted by Shahryar on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 12:49pm

"Nader" is a zombie lie. Here's why

Let's start with Florida, where 5 times as many Democrats voted for Bush as voted for Nader. Surely you should blame a thousand of them rather than a thousand of the 60,000 Nader voters. But more than that, consider that in 1996 Florida had 5,300,000 voters cast ballots in the Presidential race. In 2000 that number was 5,970,000. That's an increase of almost 700,000 voters. We don't know at all that the Nader voters would have voted for Gore since it's just as likely that they would have stayed home...as they did in 1996.

Let's look at the exit polling nationwide. Democrats voted thusly:
Gore 87%, Bush 11%, Nader 2%. The bulk of Nader's support came from independents. He got 1% of the Republicans, 6% of the indies. And that 6% of the indies is interesting because indies broke for Bush. Without Nader, Bush gets more votes. That's a pretty important point, I think.

Compare, nationally, to 1996:
Clinton 85%, Dole 10%, Perot 5%

So it's pretty typical of Dem voters to have a significant chunk vote for the Republican and another chunk vote for some third party candidate. We can see here that the Nader vote compared to Perot was very much lower.

Nader also ran in 2004, getting a neglible vote. Even then, Kerry vs Bush, 11% of the Democrats voted Republican. Go blame them.

Submitted by shaharazade on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 1:13pm

That's bs.

Nearly 300,000 Democrat's in Florida voted for Bush. Gore sucked he was the DLC, Clintonite candidate that people had had enough of. I did not vote for Nadar but many in my neighborhood which was/is 85% Democratic the rest being indies Greens or outright socialists did go for Nadar. This Nadderite's did it,nonsense is a establishment Dem.Third Way talking point.

This is not a partisan site so I don't have to put up with this fear mongering partisan talking point bs. I didn't like Nadar any better then Gore otherwise I would have voted for him in a heartbeat. Gore also was a terrible candidate and Lieberman seemed to admire Cheney. I didn't like Kerry 'Send me' any better.

The Democratic party is no longer valid to me and to 43% of registered voters. Maybe if you D partisan's quit acting like Republicans and offered something other then fear and loathing of the RW loonies, the party would not be bleeding members. So stop blaming Nadar voters or the 'ideological purists' who actually want a democracy and a party that represents the people, the common good, human and civil and the rule of law..This is not voting this is extortion.

Hey I may even vote for Trump and it's none of your business if I do. I'm no longer A Democrat, I'm an indie and one of the reasons is this mentality of fear which says vote for The Mad Bomber or else. Fear of the RW does not move me as I find Killary as scary as any Republican. Actually more so as she is nothing but a Goldwater Girl who evolved into a bad ass war criminal and a grifter, crooked, disaster cappie with a D after her name.

As far as women rights go, it takes a village of women in Haiti, Bangladesh or Punjab to crank out cheap garment's for WalMart. Speaking of villages how many villages of men. women and children have been killed, displaced or impoverished with her 'foreign policy' We came we saw we killed. DOMA? How silly to wave the Supreme court around after Obama's Republican choice. Maybe she'd appoint Cass Sunstiein, Susan Rice or how about kissenger? No thanks.

Submitted by polkageist on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 5:05pm

What's in a Name?

I agree with you. I have never voted for a Clinton and I'm not going to start with Hillary. I voted for Nader and was unhappy that I didn't have a better choice. But ever since Bill Clinton began his successful ruination of the Democratic Party, I have been a registered Green, until now. I changed to Democrat to vote for Bernie here in California. I prove the point that political party registration is meaningless if the candidates are not good enough to get the voters out. I vote where I please and I urge everyone else to do the same. If it isn't Bernie, then I vote for Jill Stein and help the Greens become an electoral force.
By the way, Sharharazade, I enjoy your passionate posts.

—

-Greed is not a virtue.
-Socialism: the radical idea of sharing.
-Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
John F. Kennedy, In a speech at the White House, 1962

Submitted by sfern on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 6:56pm

exit polls

Wasn't this the election in which exit polls were banned? I sure wish we had learned from that 300,000 that we need to demand more hand counts, routinely. I think NY's primary wouldn't have been such a loss, even aside from the disenfranchisement.

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Thu, 04/28/2016 - 11:41am

Read my post above

in which Ralph Nader quotes exit polls on who voted for him.

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Submitted by thanatokephaloides on Thu, 04/28/2016 - 5:07pm

Killary: as scary as Fiorina!

Fear of the RW does not move me as I find Killary as scary as any Republican. Actually more so as she is nothing but a Goldwater Girl who evolved into a bad ass war criminal and a grifter, crooked, disaster cappie with a D after her name.

A set of thoughts so nice I repeated them twice!

—

"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Submitted by NonnyO on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 8:03pm

Are you suggesting we once again suck it up...

... and vote for the lesser of two evils...?

I've done that for a quarter of a century, and I'm done with voting "for" one kind of evil or another. Fuck that shit.

I'm 70 yrs old and voting my conscience for a change: Bernie Sanders.

The Dem elites have shoved less than quality Dem candidates at us for over a quarter of a century and expected us to be good little marionettes, follow orders, and vote for them. We may have occasionally gotten "more" Dems (briefly), but we most assuredly did not get "better" Dems.

As Puddytat said:
When I go to the grocery store and see a choice between crap cereal and shit cereal, I'm not buying cereal. It's not my problem, it's the cereal makers' problem.

If they want us to stay Dems, not switch to Independent or other parties, or simply refuse to vote for their pick of candidates, they've got to stop shoving these corporatist-Wall St-TBTF banking-religious rightwingnut-warmongering-TPP-type DINOs down our throats and expecting we'll all line up like good little girls and boys and vote for their trash who will only enrich the upper one tenth of one percent. We certainly do NOT need to consider someone who is under criminal investigation for her emails and whatever else while she was SoS. We've had enough criminals in office, including war criminals who have never been indicted (and who will continue to be protected by Hillary if she's elected).

We don't like shit candidates and we don't like crap candidates. Ergo, the elites will have to come up with someone more appetizing, far less criminally inclined..., or we'll find our own candidate who will work for We the People - like Bernie Sanders, for instance.

—

Submitted by The Voice In th... on Thu, 04/28/2016 - 7:51am

Don't write in Bernie

If Bernie were to formally run, I would definitely vote for him. But writing him in is truly wasting a vote. Write-ins of undeclared candidates don't get reported, they just get tossed. Vote Green if they are on your ballot or someone else. I plan to vote for Trump. Yes, I hate him and think he will be a terrible President. But no worse than Hillary! So why vote at all? Or why not make a protest vote for Jill Stein?

A revolution is happening in the Republican Party. A populist revolution and it's winning. It would have won in the Democratic Party if, instead of one anointed candidate, Wall Street was stuck with supporting four different candidates. Then we would have seen Bernie in Trump's position. I'm not voting for Trump, I'm voting to support populism. The other choices just strengthen Wall street's hold on the Democratic Party by electing Clinton.

It's the classic David Duke v Edwin Edwards dilemma. This time I'm not voting for the crook.

—

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Submitted by Crimson Buddha on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 11:31pm

Here we go again

I voted for Nader. There was no way I was going to vote for Gore. I'd have sat home if my only options were Gore and Bush.

Submitted by dennis1958 on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 11:35pm

didnj't Gore say something bout Climate change?

pretty sure that why I voted for him.

—

With their hearts they turned to each others heart for refuge
In troubled years that came before the deluge
*Jackson Browne, 1974, Before the Deluge https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SX-HFcSIoU

Submitted by Pricknick on Thu, 04/28/2016 - 1:03am

Man Bear Pig

Great South park episode.

—

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Submitted by magicsister on Fri, 04/29/2016 - 11:24am

Gore did win. Didn't matter.

The Nader reasoning is unreasonable.

Look it up.

—

'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "

Submitted by randtntx on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 11:57am

Agree with this Pricknick

I think we can blame lack of backbone on the part of the Democratic elites for that war just as much as we can blame the republicans

Submitted by Sandino on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 12:59pm

In all honesty, Gore didn't lose

The 9 in black suspended the election and seated their favorite.

Submitted by elenacarlena on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 4:49pm

But the nine had their chance because the vote was so close

Also, he didn't fight anywhere but Florida. I was in Tennessee at the time, and there were tens if not hundreds of thousands of motor voter registrations "mistakenly" canceled. Had he fought for those people's right to vote, he would have won Tennessee. But nobody outside Tennessee even heard about that, for the most part. IIRC, there were some other states with effery going on too. Ohio maybe?

—

Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.

Submitted by Sandino on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 11:30pm

But it wasn't Nader that made it close

I agree that only fighting Florida, and that only half-heartedly was akin to giving up. Thanks Joe Lieberman

Submitted by elenacarlena on Thu, 04/28/2016 - 6:29am

Right, I'm not blaming Nader. I think there was election fraud

and Gore was halfhearted in fighting it. I don't know what was going through his mind, but I imagine he regrets his decisions after seeing what W wrought.

—

Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Thu, 04/28/2016 - 8:15am

In 2000, in Florida

More than 200,000 registered Democrats (12% of Florida Dems) voted for George Bush while less than half that number voted for Ralph Nader. This fact has been well documented on several sites on the internet. Our own gjohnsit wrote a diary at TOP documenting that myth. I am linking it here.

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Submitted by Haikukitty on Thu, 04/28/2016 - 6:23pm

Actually, Gore didn't lose at all.

They just let Bush steal the election.

And honestly, I don't care. Stop giving me horrible candidates if you want my vote. I know I've said it before but I'll keep saying it. I will never vote for Clinton. Ever. I actually think a Trump SC pick would not be worse than whoever she would pick.

She is far more likely to privatize Social Security, and that is the most dangerous thing anyone could do, other than all the wars she'll start.

May 9th in my state voter registration opens again, and I'll be dropping from the D party for the first time in my voting life. Almost 30 years. About the same amount of time that Clinton and her Neoliberal pals have been destroying it.

Submitted by cardboardurinal on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 11:15am

With their hearts they turned to each others heart for refuge
In troubled years that came before the deluge
*Jackson Browne, 1974, Before the Deluge https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SX-HFcSIoU

Submitted by JuliaW on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 2:01pm

Yes, this

"When they become democratic, then they can be called Democratic. " The BS insistence on any adjective of that rotten, corrupt party having an "-ic" on it just goes to show where their priorities lie. This isn't tos, where the party police come out and "correct you". We can use whatever descriptor we want here. Get used to it.

Submitted by elenacarlena on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 4:51pm

But the ick fits, wouldn't you say?

—

Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.

Submitted by Timmethy2.0 on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 5:57pm

Jack Nicholson had something to say about rats too

rats

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDTRyjMnDOk]

—

Beware the bullshit factories.

Submitted by earthling1 on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 2:10pm

Clean slate

I agree completely. A Trump win in the general would sink the existing Democrat party regime forever.
It is then, and only then that we shake the etch- a-sketch and reconstruct from the ashes a new party in our image. One without delegates, super or otherwise.
The millennials have, today, surpassed the boomer generation in numbers nationally.
A new left party is coming to America. And no one can stop it, short of genocide.

—

Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.

Submitted by ZimInSeattle on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 2:45pm

Well said. I think we all need to meet at

the Peoples Summit in Chicago this June to lay out a platform for the new Peoples Progressive Party.

—

Submitted by Lookout on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 5:22pm

Here's the site

This sounds interesting. Anyone going?
http://www.thepeoplessummit.org/

—

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Submitted by Haikukitty on Thu, 04/28/2016 - 6:25pm

I'd like to go

Its over my birthday too - maybe I can manage it somehow.

Submitted by lizzyh7 on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 11:25am

You know, I'll just say

what good is the right to an abortion if you can't pay for one? What good is Gay Marriage if you can't afford to marry? Sure, she'll give you some nice, feel good, "liberal" thoughts on that, and who knows, maybe she'll even be down for confiscating all the guns in this country, like so many from that other place used to whine on and on about. But if you can't afford to eat, or afford shelter, or have any kind of job, what fucking good is that to YOU?

The Democrats use that mess as THEIR cudgel, just like Tea Bags use abortion, guns, and the Bible for theirs. But neither side of that ever gets the economics it wants, does it? Repukes talk endlessly about Making America Great, but just what have they done to make that so? Not one fucking thing, and they won't do one fucking thing. And neither will the damned Dems now. Dems will promise you these "rights" but could care less if you are alive to exercise them!

Nope, at the beginning of this I was pretty much right with you - do anything to stop the Repugnant. But now, maybe that Repugnant will just help things go down the shitter faster, maybe we'll all be out protesting because we're unemployed to the point they CAN no longer ignore us. And yes, it could be violent and ugly. But the other choice is a long slow death by a thousand tiny cuts, just like we're seeing now. And they'll make it worse - they do NOT care about winning for party anymore, they only care about winning for POWER. It no longer really matters whether there's an R or a D behind their name, and we all know it.

—

Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

Submitted by Damnit Janet on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 11:32am

Exactly, no worth behind their words

It's all flag waving. Freedumbs!!! But the Dems are just hollering.. They shout about, "what about the scotus?" Does it matter when you can't eat, sleep or shelter your kids??

Does it matter when corruption is so bad, the cops can kill with impunity? How many mothers have to openly cry that the cops had no reason to shoot their babies?

Does any of it matter when we have more empty homes than we do homeless?

Will any of it matter when the water and food shortage wars break out due to this long ignored item called Climate Change?

We will never vote for HRC or another DINO ever again.

I refuse "lesser of two evils"

—

"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison

Submitted by detroitmechworks on Wed, 04/27/2016 - 12:30pm