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Saturday Open Thread - 9/12/26: Odds and Ends

Good morning, good people! Hope this OT finds y'all in fine fettle!

This is my latest invitation to a continuing legal education course: The 7 Deadly Sins of Clients Using AI - Privilege, Pitfalls, and Preventative Lawyering

Topic:
Your client sends you an AI-generated 'case analysis' based on confidential data. A witness uses ChatGPT to prepare for testimony. An expert gives AI instructions to write a report that is skewed. Opposing counsel then asks for the prompts, chats, uploaded documents, drafts, and AI-generated output. Are your engagement letter, client instructions, litigation hold, expert-retention practices, and discovery strategy prepared for that moment?

Generative AI is rapidly becoming part of how clients, witnesses, experts, and employees communicate, investigate, draft, and prepare for litigation. But casual or unregulated use can create privilege and confidentiality risks, preservation obligations, discoverable evidence, impeachment material, expert-disclosure issues, and avoidable disputes with opposing counsel. This practical webcast identifies seven common and consequential issues in client and witness AI use - and gives lawyers preventative tools to reduce the risk before a damaging prompt, upload, or AI-generated document becomes an exhibit.

The program will address questions such as:

  • When does a client's use of AI waive privilege?
  • What AI-related materials are discoverable?
  • How do different AI systems impact privilege and discoverability?
  • What should you tell clients, employees, witnesses, and experts about AI use?
  • How should you respond to AI-generated materials from clients and other counsel?
  • What issues arise when an expert uses AI?

Attendees will learn how to:

  • Revise engagement letters to address AI use.
  • Create a practical client-and-witness AI-use protocol for active matters.
  • Update litigation-hold notices to preserve AI prompts, chats, and related data.
  • Draft and defend discovery requests directed to an opposing party's AI use.
  • Respond to client-created AI-generated memos, chronologies, witness statements, or legal analysis.

Does this sound like Perry Mason? Like Gregory Peck in "To Kill a Mockingbird"?

I am almost done. Can't wait to finish up my last cases. At least 5 of my lawyer pals are closing down.

There is much doom and gloom in the air right now. But I remember times when we could have fun, let it all hang out. Remember? Things like this?

Well, sometimes I think about moving to a cooler clime, and where love bugs do not swarm for 8 solid weeks, but then, I am reminded about what I like about being here.

Well, friends, we have breaking news all day, all night, and we all surf the net to find it. Since this is an open thread, it is the place to drop in your links and videos that you believe are something your friends here would want to see. Wars, financial crisis, possible food shortages, but also recipes, fun trips, good music, book recommendations, etc...

It is up to y'all, so let 'er rip!

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Comments

I had what I believe is the last argument with an elderly white woman this week. She wanted a specific deed, which I tried to explain to her that it would possibly bring in the State Attorney General to set it aside on the basis of fraud, but I could do another type of deed that would be safe. Nope, she didn't agree. Then, she wondered why the deed she did herself would not be notarized at her bank. I told her it is because the bank doesn't want any involvement in a possible lawsuit. She went berserk, so I told her in a loud voice to find an attorney to commit malpractice, that I was not interested, and good luck.
No doubt, she had AI telling her what to do. sigh...
Ok, your turn, friends!

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

QMS's picture

Good to "see" you up and about. Sounds like the goal line
is getting closer by the week. Sure it will be a relief to unload.

I don't understand why people use AI. Is it just simple mental
laziness. People of our vintage would rather analyze and make
assessments on our own. But then again, we have a long track
record of doing just that, before the advent of computer generated
reasoning. Good luck and thanks for the OT!

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Zionism is a social disease

@QMS A friend conducted a jury trial a couple of months ago. His assistant fed him AI generated questions to his witnesses. Observers said it was nuts. He lost what should have been an easy case. Shakespeare laid it out for us: "First, they came after the lawyers...".
Here are the problems causing delays on the remaining hearings. I had a case taken off the docket because they wanted one more notarized affidavit from my witness. This is strictly a local rule of that county. I bring the witness to court and examine her on the record. They want a sworn preview. She lives hours away, spends every day with her critically ill husband in a hospital, can't print a document from her email, and can't find a notary. The affidavit can be prepared in 15 minutes, but then what? To get a letter from my office to her home might take over 2 weeks, because our mail service is horrible.
Another case is ready to be set, except the notarized waiver of service hasn't gotten to my mail box. I'm stuck again.
Btw, how is your back? Did you ever get it figured out what caused the problem?
I hope it is ok and that you have some new recipe to try out, friend!

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

QMS's picture

@on the cusp @on the cusp @on the cusp
Doing a prednisone regime and lidocaine patches which seems to help.
The x-rays showed no obvious damage, so that is good.
Got a replacement laptop so am rebuilding my cooking sites one
delicious meal at at time. We are enjoying another beautiful day here.
Hired a guy to help move 1 1/2 chords of seasoned, split and end-cut
red oak in prep for winter burns. Saves on oil.
Hard to believe heating season will soon be here. I know that will be a ways off
for you down Texas way. Stay cool if that is possible.

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Zionism is a social disease

@QMS you skipped out on pain pills. It is almost funny, but some of my occasional aches and pains can be traced to "sleeping wrong". Young people can't imagine what is coming their way.
We stopped making elaborate recipes at the cancer diagnosis. No carbs, if possible. Something leafy green. No sugars, if possible. And a touch of lactose intolerance on top of that, so hard cheese only.
Good thing we are not "foodies". I have a friend who will spend a weekend in New Orleans just to eat at a restaurant that features a special night a renown chef comes to town. Whatever...

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

I studied them, I briefed them in the old days. I never was impressed with them. I did play with toy soldiers as a child under ten. My uncle a WWII veteran, sold models as a hobby, so I did build a couple as a child. The coverage of piles of corpses from WWII, the holocaust, Nanking, Hiroshima, etc., kept the fantasy under strict limits. Also, Country Joe.

In the mideast, the colonization of the minds of the vassal states by Lord Cromer style orientalism didn't allow them to see reality, till Iran shoved it in their face. There was no cost benefit analysis by the US in the over extension of its massive base structure, it's imperial misadventures, and its developing obsolescence. In East Asia the extensive US base structure, the legacy of WWII, even as it is constantly updated in an ongoing grift, is understood to be only a tripwire. Now the inference drawn there, is that the tripwire is a fiction. This was suspected for several years before the Iran fiasco we now have.

Okay, Commander Bobby Jones, no doubt has quite a bit of practical experience. I like the guy, and usually agree with his views. As a child, he was super impressed by the celebration after the first Iraq War. As an older person, I wasn't impressed even at the time. A veteran friend I had been close to, said excitedly at the time, "Hey, we finally won one!" To me the "military feat" was in the same category as Grenada, and Panama. Iraq was never anything more than a small state obviously without the means to stop the US led multi national invasion. How ironic that the so called revolution in military affairs has gone in the other direction.

Thanks for the Odds & Ends, OtC! I often think of the evidentiary impact, of internet comms, AI, etc. How would this look in discovery? At hearing, at trial? What a nightmare I think it must be in actual practice.

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己所不欲,勿施于人。

@soryang @soryang Every war everywhere in all of history was fought to steal treasure. A righteous excuse to conduct it must be fabricated. Fight the commies! Fight the Fascists! Even our misnamed Civil War, which was actually the US invading a sovereign Confederacy, was due to the South refusing to pay tariffs. The South was not allowed to have nice things, like lucrative trade with England.
I found the Iraq War to be embarrassing, but I haven't had a day in my adult life that I didn't find something about my country that shamed me.
I was 17 when Woodstock happened. It has stayed in my rebellious mind since then. Give me an "F"!
A radio station that played rock music emanated out of the Univ. of Texas campus. Me and my college pals made it a point to have the station playing at midnight when it shut down for the night. The sign off song was the recording of Hendrix performing the Star Spangled Banner on the stage at Woodstock.
Well, we could'a been great, friend. We got blinded by those dollar signs in our eyes.
Thanks for the videos! I ran out of time yesterday and missed that Nawfal vid. We can all learn a lot, and remember our hippy days with Country Joe and the Fish!

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Lookout's picture

Finally got a 0.5" rain last night, so everything looks green this morning.

Retirement sounds like a good idea given the likely future of the profession. Best of luck, but sounds like you've got it under control.

As a follow up to JtC's column yesterday.

Pepe Escobar : 25 Years Later - What We Know About 9/11

(26 min)

INTEL Roundtable : w/ Larry Johnson & 9/11 Whistleblower Coleen Rowley

(27 min)

I thought it was interesting the Judge featured the story twice yesterday.

Thanks for the OT and everyone have a good weekend!

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

QMS's picture

@Lookout
Tells us most of what we should know about the
background of events leading up to the 911 'show'.

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Zionism is a social disease

@Lookout @Lookout Something I read yesterday caught my attention. Bibi had been saying for years that it would take a Pearl Harbor event to get the US involved in wars in the Middle East. Strange that the splashy remake of the movie "Pearl Harbor" hit theaters 2 months before 9/11. This tends to confirm our Deep State is involved deeply into Hollywood, as has been claimed for 6 or 7 decades.
I am so glad you got rain! We have had an unusually rainy August and September. If 2 weeks goes by dry, then browning grass comes back emerald green with the blessing of rain. Our home appears to be placed in a golf course!
Well, Judge Nap is helping shred the concocted shaming of Conspiracy Theorist. Since when is questioning, examining, studying evidence, arriving at a theory which reflects the facts a shameful thing? It should be our solemn duty to question everything.
I hope you get in a nice trip to your Farmer's Market today. I may go up to the office and work on shredding more old files. I destroyed almost 100 Thursday afternoon. Empty file cabinets are easier to move than those filled up with useless files.
Anyway, I appreciate the vids, and so will the members here, dear friend!
To say, "Now, wait just a minute..." is not a sign of insanity. It is just the opposite.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

...not Petraeus, who disclosed what he heard in the Pentagon about the 7 countries set up for destruction. Petraeus was a beneficiary though. But otherwise Pepe has the general picture. The finances from the Saudi government in support of two of the hijacking pilots were quite clear. But as Pepe notes, there are layers within layers.

The intel roundtable yesterday was excellent.

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己所不欲,勿施于人。

enhydra lutris's picture

your ongoing ithdrawal from the legal profession. So,

When does a client's use of AI waive privilege?.

One might consider reversing that, n'est ce pas? When does it not?

Sharing private or otherwise priveleged discussions or documents with any third party, hmmmm? If the AI machine in question doesn't qualify, what about all the other users it will share your shit with because anything yu tell or show it will be incorporated in its learning or training, will it not?

Telling other people, or, especially "the public" the gist or basis of the legal advice or theory you have been given, such as, perhaps,"dear chatbot, my atty says blah, blah, blah, is that true?" Again Who and/or what is Mr. chatbot.

In both cases, is the bot the only entity with access to the informatin and all that? (consider especially that the feebs, cia, and dog only knows how many others are scraping your communications)

a fertile field for exploration and litigation

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

@enhydra lutris
that the Gemini chatbot that pops up at the top of every Google search archives every search query a user makes and is keeping a digital dossier on everyone that uses the Google search engine.

So, whether you reply to the chatbot or do a direct query with it, it already knows a lot about you.

Although that is redundant because your data is already being scraped by various sources anyway.

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QMS's picture

@JtC
because that was the only option given on this OS.
Not much better. Prefer Qwant and Yandex. Do not trust googs.
Remember the tons of files I had to dumpster after my Dad died.
Cases going back decades. At least someone is left to do the dirty
in this instance. Sounds like the rains have been a life saver.
Except for the bugs.

Edited to fix spell chex.

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Zionism is a social disease

@enhydra lutris Just this morning, I read a headline that Anthropic's CEO has called for an immediate slow down on AI development. I wonder if State Bars are paying attention.
And you are correct that using AI with clients and staff instantaneously shares those privileged communications with any person or entity that pays the AI company to be on the share list. It is insane, friend.
The CLE course will be sponsored by AI tech firms. It will be presented to the lawyers in attendance as pure magic. I attended such a presentation for free, just to claim an hour's CLE credit. Not a single lawyer spoke. Just sales reps. I am just so done with this bs.
Well, are you going to escape the heat today? I will be in front of an a/c. I am a wuss.
I bet you figure out a way to have some fun, my friend!

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

enhydra lutris's picture

@on the cusp

for the past several days, but not today and predictions are cooling trend through weekend. Just as well, have plenty of stuff to do here at home.

be well, stay cool, and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

@enhydra lutris @enhydra lutris High of 95F, heat index 110F, chance of afternoon rain and evening T-shower 55%. No chance of grilling tonight.
weather update: Still hot as hell, but rain is no longer forecast. Let the grilling begin!

up
3 users have voted.

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

up
3 users have voted.

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

up
2 users have voted.

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

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1 user has voted.

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981