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Open Thread - 09 Oct 2025 - Whatcha Think?! Is It Over Soon?

Submitted by Sima on Thu, 10/09/2025 - 5:00am

Whatcha Think?! Is it Over Soon?

Is Israel done for? Or is that just wishful thinking?

Lee Camp just wrote a piece about it being over for Israel, 'Israel Doesn't Yet Know It's Over: But They're Finding Out Soon'. As usual, it's a pretty good piece, so give it a read.


And this is how much the US gives Israel in Economic and Military Aid. I just want to break down swearing... (from the article by Lee Camp linked above)

Lee Camp writes (link above):

Israel doesn’t yet know it’s over. They’ve lost the world’s support. They’ve lost Americans’ support. They’re done. Sure, as long as they have our bought-off corrupt politicians in their pocket, Israel can wander along, moaning with vacant eyes, trying desperately to defend ethnic cleansing. A true zombie nation. (Yep, bringing back the bad horror movie analogy.)

I hope Camp's prediction comes true! I hope Americans demand a stop to all the military and other types of aid we give the country. And I hope our powers-that-be listen to us. And I hope we spend all that money on our own healthcare, food, housing... Yea, right... sure...

I really hope Israel's support from America, both American people, and American powers-that-be (who are not really people, are they?) is waning, but I remember years, years, years ago when I was a teen. My first visit to Europe, to Italy, to Greece, to Turkey, to Egypt. Yes, I was learning about Greco-Roman and Mediterranean archaeology. I was 14. And there was Israel right there and... we learned, from interacting with the locals in all those countries, to really distrust and despise Israel. Not despise the people of the country, no way, but despise the politicians, the generals, the powers-that-be. Are things different now, almost 50 years later? Have politics changed enough that countries will listen to their people? I guess I can hope so.

Ok, here's the open thread! What's up, whatcha doing? Reading? Thinking? Listening to? Remember, everything is interesting if you dive deep enough, so tell us about where you're diving!

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#israel
#Support
#lee_camp
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Submitted by Sima on Thu, 10/09/2025 - 1:48am
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Happy Day! I hope everyone is doing well. Had a lot to do last week with finances and taxes for my mom. But, it's done and all is good and I'm enjoying this week! Hope you are too. What's up? How're doing? Whatcha learning, paying attention to?

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by Lookout on Thu, 10/09/2025 - 7:47am
Lookout's picture

Which Israel continues to acquire.
New CBS owner David Ellison met with top Israeli general in scheme to spy on Americans
Ellison also bought tiktok and is censoring the anti-Israel content

Here's an interview with Max...

Max Blumenthal : Charlie Kirk and Zionist Billionaires

Don't forget the Zionist control about 80% (perhaps more) of the congress...both parties.

If there is a hope to get rid of the Jewish supremacists state of Israel, to my mind it lies with Iran. However, I suspect they have a sub off Iran's coast with nuclear armed missiles ready to strike.

I sympathize with your hope, but don't doubt their ownership and power over the US political system. Quite the mess really.

Well, we live in interesting times. Thanks for the OT and Lee's article!

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Submitted by Sima on Thu, 10/09/2025 - 11:41pm
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@Lookout
Yea, the media is super powerful and.. it's being taken over too. Dang.

Ohh well, I enjoyed learning from the video with Blumenthal. Thank you!

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by fire with fire on Thu, 10/09/2025 - 8:44am

Trump Says Hamas and Israel Have ‘Signed Off’ on First Phase of Ceasefire Deal

President Trump has announced that Israel and Hamas have both “signed off” on the first phase of a Gaza ceasefire deal, an announcement.

“I am very proud to announce that Israel and Hamas have both signed off on the first Phase of our Peace Plan. This means that ALL of the Hostages will be released very soon, and Israel will withdraw their Troops to an agreed upon line as the first steps toward a Strong, Durable, and Everlasting Peace. All Parties will be treated fairly!” the president wrote on Truth Social on Wednesday night.

“This is a GREAT Day for the Arab and Muslim World, Israel, all surrounding Nations, and the United States of America, and we thank the mediators from Qatar, Egypt, and Turkey, who worked with us to make this Historic and Unprecedented Event happen. BLESSED ARE THE PEACEMAKERS!” Trump added.

Drop Site News reported earlier that Hamas and other Palestinian factions had agreed to a framework for a Gaza ceasefire deal. Before his announcement, President Trump said that a deal was “very close” and that he could be traveling to the region this weekend.

A source told Drop Site that Hamas was now trusting President Trump to guarantee that Israel won’t restart its genocidal war. “Trusting [Trump’s] word is the gamble they are taking. If it works, they will be considered geniuses. If it fails, they will be considered fools. It’s as simple as that,” the source said.

Israel previously broke a Gaza ceasefire deal that was signed in January and has constantly violated a Lebanon ceasefire deal that it signed in November 2024. After Trump’s announcement, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said that he will convene his government on Thursday to “approve the agreement and bring all our dear hostages home.”

Israel has continued to launch attacks in Gaza despite President Trump’s call to “immediately” stop the bombing. Since President Trump made that call, Israel has killed more than 100 Palestinians in Gaza. Israeli attacks haven’t been as intense over the past two days, but they haven’t stopped.

If you take Trump seriously, from either a woke or wingnut perspective, you will get dizzy and fall on your face. Just last week I saw quotes from Donnie Fucknuts to the effect that the Ukraine military can run Russia out of their territory, contradicting his rap at the Ukie Twerp six months ago.

At the time, I did not buy his Peace Loving Act, as I don't buy his war monger act. This guy is an empty suit with a snarl, hired to take the blame when the shit gets too deep.

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I cried when I wrote this song. Sue me if I play too long.

Submitted by Sima on Thu, 10/09/2025 - 11:43pm
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@fire with fire
PT Barnum, as said here before. I don't believe a thing the guy sez. It's ludicrous, like living through Reagan times was. I moved overseas then, can't do that now Sad

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by usefewersyllables on Thu, 10/09/2025 - 9:51am
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enough.

The only thing that will shut off the infinite pipeline of our tax dollars directly to the Zionist entity will be the total collapse of the US financial system. And that is baked into the system at this point. The only remaining questions is "when?". I don't see any chance of the country surviving Trump's Revenge Tour 2.0 without collapse, so perhaps that puts a bit of an upper bound on it.

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Twice bitten, permanently shy.

Submitted by Sima on Thu, 10/09/2025 - 11:46pm
Sima's picture

@usefewersyllables
Yep, I can see that coming. Sad that it's all that will end of the support of Israel, but I think you're right. Dang. Wonder if Trump'll make it to the end of his 4 years? I kinda doubt he's strong enough. President Vance, ohh boy!

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3 users have voted.
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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by on the cusp on Thu, 10/09/2025 - 11:03am

We won't know when it is over since Israel owns the msm and can keep us funding "nothing" for a long time.
I assume the bombing of babies will continue unabated for whatever reasons Israel can dream up.
Where will our government officials find a wall to kiss? Or an ass to kiss?
Where will we find the money to buy anything that has been shipped to the store via a new 18 wheeler that cost 50% more due to tariffs?
An old friend told me she is having a tough time filling her prescriptions for medicines since the tariff war with China is on like Donkey Kong.
Wish I owned a pawn shop.
Wish I had some hope.
Thanks for the OT, chica.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by Sima on Thu, 10/09/2025 - 11:48pm
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@on the cusp
But, nope. Not really. Have as good a weekend as you can!

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4 users have voted.
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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Thu, 10/09/2025 - 1:11pm
enhydra lutris's picture

thinking about much of anything except getting organized and getting stuff done, that and planning stuff.

I really don't see "the people" getting out of their chairs and demanding that Congress and/or "the government" do anything about anything and I sure as shit don't see the government going along. It the people want something which the oligarchs don't also want, historically there is a very minimal likelihood of it coming to pass. That's just the way this country works.

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by Sima on Thu, 10/09/2025 - 11:48pm
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@enhydra lutris
but true. Dang!

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4 users have voted.
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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by ban nock on Thu, 10/09/2025 - 2:19pm

is pretty funny. Sweden better give him a peace prize or he'll bomb them.

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Submitted by humphrey on Thu, 10/09/2025 - 3:39pm

This occurred after a an sand bagging testy interview recently.

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Submitted by on the cusp on Thu, 10/09/2025 - 4:00pm

@humphrey so can cops, state and Federal.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by Sima on Thu, 10/09/2025 - 11:51pm
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@humphrey
I frapping hate AI, gotta admit. I guess I'm old.

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5 users have voted.
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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by on the cusp on Thu, 10/09/2025 - 4:09pm

https://consortiumnews.com/2025/10/09/when-presidents-kill-2/on the un-Constitutionality of the Venezuelan boats.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by soryang on Thu, 10/09/2025 - 10:26pm
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@on the cusp @on the cusp

...but eventually found the judge's article. I studied Ex parte Milligan, and Ex Parte Quirin, quite a bit once upon a time. I guess it was during the establishment of the Gitmo confinement facility. I especially liked the Milligan case. Quirin In Quirin, the court said that the unlawful combatant status was "conceded."

Anyway, this is quite a murky area of law, that is very challenging. I found a couple of good links.

Due Process Rights for Guantanamo Detainees

How much Due Process do you get? Not much.

In his brief on the merits, Al Hela argued that the functional approach in Boumediene applies equally to the Due Process Clause. He contended that substantive due process provides that his continued detention after nearly two decades requires the government to prove he poses a threat. He further claimed that he was denied procedural due process by the district court's reliance on ex parte secret evidence, multiple layers of hearsay, a presumption of regularity with respect to government evidence, and the use of preponderance of the evidence as a standard of review. Taken together, Al Hela maintained that these defects denied him the opportunity for meaningful review as promised by Boumediene.

The government urged the appellate court to avoid deciding whether Guantanamo detainees are ever entitled to assert due process rights. The government acknowledged it previously took the position that the Fifth Amendment does not apply to Guantanamo detainees, explaining that it no longer takes a position on this complicated question. The government argued that even if Al Hela is entitled to constitutional due process rights, these protections would not entitle him to release. With respect to Al Hela's substantive due process claim that the government must prove a person poses a threat in order to continue to detain him, the government responded that enemy combatants may always be held until the cessation of hostilities to prevent their return to the battlefield.

With respect to Al Hela's procedural due process claims, the government asserted that the Supreme Court's opinion in Hamdi v. Rumsfeld, which dealt with a U.S. citizen detained as an enemy combatant in the United States, is the basis for determining what process is due and what procedures courts should follow. The government pointed out that the D.C. Circuit has relied on Hamdi to find that hearsay evidence is permissible; that the government may withhold sensitive evidence from Guantanamo detainees in habeas cases; that the courts may accord a presumption of accuracy to government evidence; and that a preponderance-of-the-evidence standard suffices. Accordingly, the government contended that Al Hela's habeas proceeding provided all of the process that was due in order to secure a meaningful opportunity to review his detention.

Here's a link to the 2023 appellate decision in https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/us-dc-circuit/2196352.html

Definitely a topic that merits a lot of attention. Thanks OTC!

edit: how is this material?

So now we've descended from secret evidence and hearsay derived from torture heard ex parte given a presumption of regularity to just summary execution. I guess that's what I'm getting at.

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語必忠信 行必正直

Submitted by on the cusp on Thu, 10/09/2025 - 10:33pm

@soryang What you quoted in bold in Hamdi v. Rumsfeld is INCREDIBLE for its' twisting the Constitutional rights like a pretzel! No more standard of proof of "beyond a reasonable doubt" for those terrorists! And hearsay, plenty of it, is perfectly fine and admissible!
Anyway, glad you enjoyed it.
For anyone who wishes to read the article but can't due to my hinky link it is on Consortium News where Judge Nap frequently posts.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by soryang on Fri, 10/10/2025 - 9:27am
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@on the cusp

AL HELA v. BIDEN
United States Court of Appeals, District of Columbia Circuit.
Abdulsalam Ali Abdulrahman AL-HELA, Detainee Camp Delta, also known as Abd Al-Salam Ali Al-Hila and Abdulwahab Ali Abdulrahman Al-Hela, as Next Friend of Abdulsalam Ali Abdulrahman Al-Hela, Appellants v. Joseph R. BIDEN, Jr., President of the United States, et al., Appellees

No. 19-5079
Decided: April 04, 2023

In case anyone is interested. Reading the case, it is not even clear that habeas or due process even apply (although previous Supreme Court decisions say that it does). Rather the constitutional issue wasn't reached in principle. There is some reasoning based upon the "suspension clause" of the Constitution. So the reasoning is something like this, you got enough substantive due process, and procedural due process whether you were entitled to it or not.

This reasoning is based on a different WWII case called Eisentrager about Germans detained outside the US after WWII . The Eisentrager principle is basically, that if you are an alien and you are not in the territorial US, you don't have constitutional rights. The latest Al Hela case was decided without making a definitive precedential decision on due process rights. The plurality decision felt it was moot under the facts of the case.

I think Boumediene is the current law on habeas rights applicable to detainees particularly at Guantanamo. However, it quite clear that the DC District Court of Appeal is not onboard given the subsequent track record of their decisions. The Al Hela decision is a good portrayal of how they are still imo opposed to Boumediene in principle. I'm sure some would await the determination of the right case to send to the current Supreme Court to pull back from Boumediene, which looks like a good decision on habeas rights applying to the Gitmo situation.

One of the keys I think is that Gitmo is under de facto US sovereignty and complete control, despite having been characterized as "foreign" territory.

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語必忠信 行必正直

Submitted by QMS on Fri, 10/10/2025 - 9:52am
QMS's picture

@soryang

their territory.
Tear down the prison
which is the symbol of
American control.
Fat chance /snark.There are enough
Cubans to storm Gitmo and chase the
evil empire out. A short boat ride.

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Zionism is a social disease

Submitted by Sima on Thu, 10/09/2025 - 11:54pm
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@on the cusp
Thanks. Trump sucks. Heh.

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by lotlizard on Fri, 10/10/2025 - 5:57am
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all the fine things about freedom, justice, and equality they pretend to believe… all those ideals in whose name they claim the right to rule us.

Another proof being that Hawai‘i, or Tahiti, or New Caledonia are not independent countries — although Monaco, Liechtenstein, San Marino, Vatican City, Nauru, and various Caribbean island tax havens supposedly are.

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