VP debate
Which I think might turn out to be far more consequential than the earlier one between Harris and Trump.
Senator Vance. Folks, this is what a sociopath looks like and sounds like. The sexual charisma, the impeccable turn out, the pretense of just a nice guy, speaking pleasantly to his opponent. Naturally, he wasn't going to be seen and heard being mean to a grandpa. Enough to make you think he couldn't possibly have said those awful things the media, and we know how they lie, says he did. Folks, he said them and he meant them. Notice the sweeping statements, the blaming of any convenient target, the utter lack of specifics. Right now he is blaming "immigrants", next year it will be you and me, for not falling in line with whatever insane policy the Rs have in store for us.
Moderators: Where to begin? Not with foreign policy, over which the VP has no jurisdiction and little influence. I doubt the next president is going to be asking either of these two if he or she should bomb Iran right after getting off the phone with Netanyahoo demanding just that. The only scandal they could find against Walsh was he can't remember precise dates from 1989??? Do you remember precise dates from 30 years ago? I don't. How do you conduct a debate between two men from the Midwest and not ask about farm policy? Hows about a mention of the Monsanto trials and Americans' increasing demands for clean air, water and food?
Gov. Walsh: not good at debating but not a liar. Mark Kelly would have wiped the floor with pretty boy Vance, but a. Kelly is needed in the Senate, and b. there are more voters in the Midwest than in the Intermountain West. I loved the way Walsh was able to point to specifics about Minnesota, best state in which to raise a family and much more. If Harris wins, I hope she gives him a domestic brief. I was disappointed that he failed to point out that the offshoring of industry began in a major way under the administration of none other than Saint Ronnie of Sacramento.
Former President Trump is non compos mentis, there are rumors of incontinence, not surprising in an old man, and it is entirely possible he might not survive four years of one of the most stressful jobs on the planet. There is only so much infirmity which even the best of tailors can conceal. Senator Vance is not morally fit to be president. This is the worst VP pick since Spiro Agnew. Nor am I willing to vote for Jill Stein. If the Kennedy campaign did nothing else, it showed there is a statistically significant number of American voters who do care about the environment, clean air, food, soil, and water, the shocking decline in the health of most of us. I have not seen Stein or those around her do much to appeal to the voters who have those concerns but don't happen to be urban liberals. Add those issues to a robust peace policy, and I think you have a coalition which could win elections. The Green Party needs to do that work, or get out of way of those who will.
That leaves Harris. I am not a fan, but neither do I see any compelling case against her. We have had mediocre presidents before, and the republic survived. I doubt we could survive Trump/Vance. Harris has actually won elections and has held down demanding jobs. DA and state Atty Gen are not jobs where you can spend afternoons golfing. Am I much impressed with her? No. I wish she had prosecuted PG&E for the California fires and forced that company to lose its' charter. I do note that her major foreign policy advisor, probably her Secretary of State if she is elected, forgot the name, is NOT a Zionist ideologue. What I like best about her is that she knows how to behave in public, that it is not all about her, unlike Killary, and that she doesn't seem to be carrying Cold War baggage. Her good looks help, but, unlike the likes of Shillary and others, she knows how to present herself in a professional but not gaudy manner.
A You tuber at Occupy Democrats is floating the truly frightening notion that the Rs. intend to use the 25th Amendment against Trump and put in Vance to enact their Project 2025 agenda. Yikes! That sounds to me like head for the hills time.
The best line from the convention came from the not known for charisma Hakim Jeffries: "Bro, we broke up wit you for a reason."
Comments
More to it
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He said that he was at Tianeman Square when the tank rolled over the guy standing in front of it. He wasn’t there nor was the guy killed.
Her support of genocide, her unwavering support of Israel and the fact that she has the lowest approval of any veep in modern history or all of it, the fact that she had to drop out of the last election because no one voted for her and the fact that no one has still. Plus she covered up Biden’s incompetence and can’t form a coherent sentence even if it’s on the teleprompter.
Only if you overlook her cackling at inappropriate times.
I suggest you look deeper into her tenure as AG. Because of her the death penalty is still on the books in California because she refused to obey the SC and release a man who was innocent.
She put parents of truant kids in jail, prosecuted low level marijuana users and then laughed about her using it too. Not releasing inmates from overcrowded prisons as ordered because she wanted to use them as slave labor.
Trump didn’t cook that up. The Heritage Foundation did, but Cheney and Rumsfeld were the first that dreamed up some of the things in it. Cheney has endorsed Kamala. One of the worst war mongers and supporter of torture and rendition and spying on Americans just to name 3 of his heinous offenses. The fact that he and 200 other Bush flunkies along with ex spooks and some of the nastiest people still alive should get everyone asking why the hell they are supporting Kamala! She happily endorsed their endorsements. Eee-gads.
I don’t get why people think we wouldn’t survive a Trump presidency. Seems we did survive it last time he was president.
Just playing devils advocate here.
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
I don't think we would
survive a Vance presidency. I think what he learned from his early life was that the only thing which matters is power. I don't want a sociopath in the WH, especially one who is owned by finance capitalism. What Trump and Vance are promising their fanatic followers is you get to be in charge. Something else I don't want to see happen. This is a group of folks who believe laws are for other people, not them.
I had been planning to vote for Kennedy, but we all what happened there. As for Green Party, I am done with purity politics. Look what DSA and Justice Democrats have managed to accomplish, sometimes against the active opposition of Democratic Central Committee. At some point, good intentions need to produce something. Candidates elected, laws passed, something.
Mary Bennett
Seriously?
You don’t remember Biden being called the senator from MBNA? Or that Clinton’s triangulation sent democrats off looking for financing from big banks, big business, big pharma, ect? Both parties are beholden to finance capitalism.
Can you provide links for your first paragraph? And when has any president been bound by laws? Obama killed 2 Americans without due process. He expanded Bush's spying by many degrees. He rescinded habeas corpus. On what grounds did he do that? Biden’s been treating the first amendment like it doesn’t exist. He is also ignoring our country’s humanitarian laws and is funding a genocide even though we are signatories to the Geneva and genocide conventions. How was Trump worse than any previous president just going back 24 years? Roosevelt lined us up to get involved in WW-2… every president has thought that they were above the law.
What exactly did Trump do that has people so afraid of him? Or maybe they are just listening to the corporate media spouting constant fear porn and mongering?
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
I never said I was afraid of Trump, I think he is non compos
mentis. I suspect his mental decline might be worse than Biden's. What I fear is Trump either dying in office or being removed for incapacity and being replaced by Vance.
I do believe Vance is an out and out sociopath, my opinion, and I don't need link validation for that opinion.
Biden is not running for office and I did not vote for him in 2020. What I fear is thousands of baby Maga types thinking that they can set themselves up as In Charge all across the country.
Mary Bennett
I just thought about the incompetency issue.
Trump's competency was never an issue in any of his trials, criminal or civil. If it had been floated by anyone, it would have been his attorneys.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
I am not following that reasoning.
what has mental decline to do with his trials?
What I am seeing is increasingly bizarre statements from him. As if he is now living on his own Planet Donald where whatever he says must be true. For example, Harris never worked at McDonalds? Huh? I have heard of resume padding but claiming a low status job when you were a teenager? Why would someone even say that if it were not true? His lies, ahem, exaggerated claims, used to at least sound more or less plausible; now they seem merely unhinged.
The truth, as I see it, is that Trump miscalculated badly in 2020. He could have graciously relinquished power, and spent the next 4 years as elder statesman, patriotically criticizing the Democrats from the sidelines, and he might well have been a shoo-in this year for the rematch. And not had to scoop to the bottom of the Republican barrel to find a running mate.
Mary Bennett
If a criminal defendant, or in a civil suit, a respondent,
appears to be too incompetent to assist their attorney in their defense of their case, the attorneys are required to take the appropriate measures.
He had some top tier attorneys.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Biden's change in mental status appeared after his son's death
while Vice-President. There have been a constant decline of physical and mental status visible. It now appears very advance.
Trump has not shown signs of mental decline in public events that I have noticed. 40+ years as a consultant pharmacist in geriatrics, mental health and substance abuse, evaluated and monitored 1000's of individuals.
His travel and interview schedule is grueling. It would be too difficult to create the controlled environment to fake competency. With all the resources of the US government Biden's mental decline did not go unnoticed.
Many medical reasons, majority of cases are unrelated to mental status. Up to 17% of men have occasional incontinence. The most common reason is enlarged prostrate which is part of aging and prostrate treatments to relieve the problem.
We are never certain a president will live long enough to finish their elected term. Kennedy was young.
Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.
We are never certain a president will live long enough to
finish their elected term.
Right. Which is why it matters who the VP is. I take a good look and ask myself, Do I want to see that bozo (or Karen) in the White House? And, in this case, no I don't. I could live with an evangelical ideologue like Pence if I had to, but an out and out sociopath, which is what I believe Vance to be, no.
Lets examine the infamous cat lady remark, for example. Those "childless", what he really meant was unmarried, not subject to domestic male authority, women include teachers, nurses, many professional women. Childless women are NOT recipients of public assistance; they are women who work, who pay taxes and contribute to our economy and to our communities. One such is my daughter. She does have a cat, she also went to great trouble and expense to provide a home for one of her nieces. So this personal for me. I love the way some folks think they get to vote for personal, emotional reasons but that no one else should.
My generation, Cold War boomers, and that includes Trump, needs to get out of the way. People like Biden, Pelosi, Trump, the late Senator Feinstein, and we can all think of others, should be enjoying honorable retirement and dictating their memoirs. These are people who were in the rooms where consequential decisions were being made for the last 50 years. All their special knowledge will be lost to future generations.
Trump's grueling schedule will last for the next four years should he be elected. Can he survive that long with mind intact? Maybe, maybe not. That is not a chance I am willing to take.
Mary Bennett
Quick search on sociopath and childless cat lady shows
shows a pattern of media using the phrases in many negative articles regarding Vance. It makes one wonder if the emotional impact was tested in a public opinion control group for the best phrases.
I still have not found an opinion regarding Vance as a sociopath by a practicing medical professional, including signs and symptoms supporting the diagnosis. Perhaps your qualifications for labeling him a sociopath would provide support for the opinion beyond a unnamed source in a Rawstory article now referenced at MSM sites.
"Childless cat lady" statement from 2021 requires too much public education to be an effective insult.
This NPR article covers most of the reasons to be insulted and includes a long list of influencers who have noticed the insult.
JD Vance went viral for ‘cat lady’ comments. The centuries-old trope has a long tail July, 24, 2024
Understand it is personal for you having daughter and your desire to protect her is clear. If you raised her into an independent competent women (from your description she is) she does not need her Dad (male authority figure) in her life trying to protect her by influencing my vote. She can take care of herself.
Which brings up the question, if Trump wins the presidential election - Would you accept the results of the vote?
This comment is not an endorsement for the Trump/Vance or Harris/Walz campaigns
Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.
Yup
This was my point. The media has spent 8 years making Trump the worst boogie man in history when if you stack his legacy up against some other presidents he is nowhere near the top of the worst.
Democrats and the media did that to some extent with Bush/Cheney but they didn’t need to work as hard because they were really that evil.
But because I’d already been riled into hysteria about Bush I just ignored the media and looked at what Trump actually did and said. He never said to drink bleach, but many people still believe he did.
And half the country still thinks he worked with Putin to steal the election instead of admitting that Hillary was a bad candidate which most of the country despised.
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
I would be interested in reading
just what you think Trump's accomplishments were? The two which I can think of are a tax cut for his rich friends and moving our embassy to Jerusalem, a publicity stunt, for which the Israelis have given us exactly nothing in return.
For the record I voted for Stein in 2016. Never again. She and associates have had Eight Years in which to make the Green Party into a force to be reckoned with and so far as I can see have been merely sitting on their hands congratulating themselves on their moral superiority. I also couldn't stand bloodthirsty Killary and, no, I don't nor ever did think Trump stole it nor have I ever believed in Russian involvement. As for half the country believing that I doubt it; I think many found that lie to be a comforting story they could tell themselves so as not to admit they were wrong.
Mary Bennett
I have no idea
because I didn’t pay any attention to him. I checked out of the rigged voting game after Obama decided to make Bush's spying on us legal and when he bailed out the banks and let them steal 10 million people’s homes.
Did Trump do anything like that? Did he assassinate 2 Americans without due process?
Why don’t you tell me what Trump did that was worse than Obama and Bush. Why is Trump so much worse than Biden who is complicit in genocide right GD now! And is trying to take us to war with Iran. Is Trump supporting Nazis in Ukraine and risking nuclear war with Russia? Kamala is fully on board with Biden’s agenda. You don’t find that absolutely ghastly? Russia and Ukraine were on the brink of signing a peace treaty, but Biden wanted the war to happen. Trump is at least talking about peace while Biden is trying to overthrow Putin. And let’s not forget that Obama overthrew Ukraine’s president that put this war in play. And Obama pivoted to China which will bring another nuclear crisis up in a few years.
And tell me how the hell we can vote our way out of this nightmare scenario when the people who are running the government were never voted in.
In case you haven’t noticed the same people in both parties have been in congress for 50 years and American quality of life has gone down every year. BOTH parties are beholden to the same donors and they don’t give a damn about us. But pretend that if you vote for the right person things will change for the better….
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
Again, it isn't Trump
it is Trump's VP pick with whom I really, truly can't live. There is no telling what an unprincipled opportunist might do.
Although, I might add, that the former presidents you named all did relinquish power when their terms ended. And, if we are speaking of presidential crimes, I wonder why GW Bush and St. Ronnie were left off your list.
What you say reinforces my point that we need a genuine, unbought, third party whose program combines peace abroad with justice and prosperity at home. I think such a party could win elections. Ordinary citizens are fed up with lefty multiculturalism and with rightist authoritarian greedy capitalism alike.
Mary Bennett
So did Trump
He left before Biden walked into the WH.
Good grief. Hillary and Obama tried to keep Trump from running and used their intelligence agencies before and during his presidency. Durham proved that even though he wasn’t allowed to speak to the bigwigs who set the plan in motion. This is what Russia Russia Russia was all about.
He had every right to question election results as did the republicans in congress. Democrats refused to recognize the results 5 times since 2000, but no one called them insurrectionists. Trump used the courts which most refused to hear his case. The 2 that did ruled for Trump.
Democrats have spent the last 8 years refusing to admit that Trump won fairly.
I was young and not paying attention to politics during Reagan and Bush 1.
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
Good grief yourself.
I know a sociopath when I see one. Don't say you weren't warned.
Mary Bennett
Weird though isn’t it
that democrats never tried to roll back republican tax cuts.
Republicans hurried too much to get the Trump cuts passed and screwed up. They needed democrats help to fix them and they happily did so.
Tax cuts vs Obama bailing out the banks that screwed the global economy and never held any of them accountable.
You seem to have blinders on and overlook how bad democrats are even when I point them out to you.
Vance might never be president.
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
There is bad
and then there's worse.
Vance, in my view, is worse. Like I said, a chance I am not willing to take. If there was any doubt in mind about how to vote, seeing that preening socoipath on stage pretending to be a nice guy sealed it for me.
What I think will happen is Trump in office by the narrowest of victories facing a hostile Democratic congress in no mood for compromise. Remember how when Obama was being sworn in, McConnell was having a meeting with Republican senators pledging to let the new president have NO cooperation whatsoever. You might have forgotten, but I bet Schumer, et al have not.
Mary Bennett
Of course I will accept the results of the vote.
I find the question somewhat insulting. I am already working on plans A, B and C to protect myself should that happen.
Vance being a sociopath is my personal, unprofessional opinion and I am sticking with it. Really, IDK about you, but if Trumpists are going to take a we don't need no experts stance, they shouldn't be surprised when I or anyone else does the same.
I have not read or heard either the Raw Story or NPR stories to which you refer. I do insist that I, like others who post here, do have some faculty of independent judgement.
It's called street smarts. I have some, albeit not as much as others whom I have known. You learn how to manage risk and part of that is learning how to evaluate people. For many of us, this is an essential survival skill.
Mary Bennett
In my math you have 4 choices
.
.
on the color chart they are red, blue, green and clear
R = pubs
B = dems
G = greens
C = not voting (would have used yellow but did not want to stir up connotations)
Speaking of Vance...
...Can someone explain this to me? (I know, in political-cartoon-years it's old enough to hold top federal office, but I just happened to view it again):
https://theonion.com/sofa-so-good-1851619418rev1723472411101/
In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.
Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!
That would be the, ah, Couch Thing.
Just when I thought I had truly Heard It All, now we have the, um, couch thing. Look it up on google. Afraid my puritan upbringing is getting in the way here.
Mary Bennett
I did.
BTW, Snopes says it's completely untrue, for whatever that's worth.
In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.
Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!