Open Thread - Thurs 04 July 2024 - Happy 4th!

4th of July!
It's Thursday and it's the 4th of July! It's been 248 years since this nation was created, if one takes 1776 as the date of creation. And in 1814 the poem featuring the line 'the rockets' red glare, and the bombs bursting in air' over Fort McHenry during the battle of Baltimore was published by Francis Scott Key. This poem became the Star Spangled Banner. So that's 210 years old. And our enemy at the time, the United Kingdom, is now our best bud as we take over (took over) its role as the english-speaking Empire leader!

from: https://www.lovethispic.com/image/269745/happy-4th-of-july

Serious Stuff:
The US forest service is preparing to allow hunters to go into west coast forests and murder about half a million barred owls over 30 years. Supposedly this will let spotted owls 'recover' because nothing else will, right? Yea, killing other owls will do a great job on replenishing and protecting the old growth forests that the spotted owls need because humans have had nothing to do with taking away those old growth forests, ever! And sure, the barred owls won't move back into the open spaces the killing makes! No! Not at all!


Baby Spotted Owls, from Ranger Rick Magazine on Pinterest.

Thanks for reading on the 4th of July! Here's the open thread - remember, everything is interesting if you dive deep enough, so tell us about where you're diving! We wanna read it!

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Sima's picture

Hope everyone has a great day, lots of good food and fun!

If you're around, give us a comment and tell us what's up!

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

QMS's picture

-
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celebrating Independence Day by making a beef stir fry.
Entertainment may include blowing off fingers with firecrackers,
throwing them on the grill and call them hot dogs.

Thanks for the OT.

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Sima's picture

@QMS
But, why not? Makes sense Smile Hope you had a great holiday!

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

they say it is

If the gov’t says it
They are Lying

If corporations say it
They are lying

It internat’l organizations say it
They are Lying

If the media say it
Yup! They lying, Too!

But go ahead, don’t trust
Your own senses(including spidey sense)
Believe them ‘till the day You Die

That’s what they’re hoping for
Don’t be an ignint bahstahd

Happy(?) Fourth EVERYone

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Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .

If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march

enhydra lutris's picture

there isn't much left of it

The Fourth

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Sima's picture

@enhydra lutris
makes sense! Celebrate, but realize so much is gone...

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Worth taking the occasion to reflect on whether the USA is really independent, no?

And if not, to consider how it was we lost independence, to whom, and what would it take to GET IT BACK.

Somehow imaginary Russian influence over Trump was a huge deal yet very real ownership of Congress (not to mention media, much of the bureaucracy...) by Israel is a non-issue?

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usefewersyllables's picture

@Blue Republic

on. That is all.

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Twice bitten, permanently shy.

Sima's picture

@Blue Republic
That illustration really makes the point, doesn't it?

Heh. Spot on, as usefewersyllables said.

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

enhydra lutris's picture

On July 4, 1776, the Second Continental Congress signed off of the US Declaration of Independence. At that time, the US, as we know it, didn't exist yet.

The US Constitution wasn't drafted until 1787 and that wasn't ratified until 1788.

The government wasn't really put together until 1789 You can find a (partial?) list of the laws/acts passed in by the First Congress in 1789 here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_legislation,...

Please note, especially, The Judiciary Act of 1789. This was a biggie, creating lesser courts and divvying up jurisdictions and all that. It, combined with certain acts of certain government officials led to the court case generally referred to as Marbury v Madison, wherein Justice Marshall, through what was something of a cagey act of political blackmail seized the power of judicial review for the Supremes through a fait accompli.

That's it for now, but all that really happened on July 4 was the colonies telling the British Crown "you ain't the boss of me".

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Rib eye steaks, baked spuds, huge green salad full of cherry tomatoes from the garden.
We never eat desserts, but I did get a pecan pie. I will have pie a la mode, topping it with Blue Bell Homemade Vanilla ice cream, the flag ship ice cream of Texas. The rest of the pie will go to my brother, who's only reliable tooth is his sweet tooth.
Everyone enjoy the day!

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Sima's picture

@on the cusp
Sounds great! I hope it was awesome. I spent the whole night dealing with the puppy as the fireworks were overwhelming until around 1 am. Was very tiresome, but he is ok, and so are we!

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

the reasons, declared in 1776, that coincide with the reasons Donbass and Crimean residents voted to leave Ukraine in 2014, especially the Ukrainian government's allowing private mercenaries to kill and terrorize the people without law enforcement, without consequences, without justice.

I emphasize those parts in bold type. This is for me the essential disagreement I have with fellow Americans who think Ukrainians had no right to leave Ukraine. They assert we didn't allow South Carolina to leave the United States. But they forget that we left Great Britain, and that the essential fact in both matters was justice.

http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. — And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.

New Hampshire:
Josiah Bartlett, William Whipple, Matthew Thornton
Massachusetts:
John Hancock, Samuel Adams, John Adams, Robert Treat Paine, Elbridge Gerry
Rhode Island:
Stephen Hopkins, William Ellery
Connecticut:
Roger Sherman, Samuel Huntington, William Williams, Oliver Wolcott
New York:
William Floyd, Philip Livingston, Francis Lewis, Lewis Morris
New Jersey:
Richard Stockton, John Witherspoon, Francis Hopkinson, John Hart, Abraham Clark
Pennsylvania:
Robert Morris, Benjamin Rush, Benjamin Franklin, John Morton, George Clymer, James Smith, George Taylor, James Wilson, George Ross
Delaware:
Caesar Rodney, George Read, Thomas McKean
Maryland:
Samuel Chase, William Paca, Thomas Stone, Charles Carroll of Carrollton
Virginia:
George Wythe, Richard Henry Lee, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Harrison, Thomas Nelson, Jr., Francis Lightfoot Lee, Carter Braxton
North Carolina:
William Hooper, Joseph Hewes, John Penn
South Carolina:
Edward Rutledge, Thomas Heyward, Jr., Thomas Lynch, Jr., Arthur Middleton
Georgia:
Button Gwinnett, Lyman Hall, George Walton

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Sima's picture

@Linda Wood
Thank you for this!

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Cassiodorus's picture

449768882_10227578670393644_2877199623471127221_n.jpg

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“The Democrats and Republicans want you to believe they are mortal enemies engaged in a desperate struggle when all the time, they are partners with a power-sharing agreement.” - Richard Moser

Sima's picture

@Cassiodorus
Or collapse of the Republic and creation of the Empire? I'm never sure.

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

holiday proceeds, the militarized cops are all out on patrol, the jails will be full by 3am.
Stay cooped up at home to let your freedom ring.
We are more or less preparing for the hurricane to blow right over us this weekend. Hoo Boy.
It's always something...
My sympathies to all pet owners who have critters that panic at the sounds of the fireworks.
I went through hell keeping my horses from running through the fences to escape. Because of them, I will not ever set off fireworks. We might think it is cool, but innocent critters think they are under attack.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Sima's picture

@on the cusp
helping Nikko deal with the fireworks. He was unphased at first, but then it got wild and so did he. This morning he would not go outside, at all. It took until the afternoon for him to leave the house, I guess the smells finally blew away, or something. Or maybe the alarm all the wild animals felt, the horses next door in their barn, and so on, finally faded. I dunno.

I admit, I used to like fireworks in some ways. But one time years ago, I was sitting outside listening to the fireworks all around the valley. And I thought to myself, I bet this is kinda what soldiers heard and hear before they and their companions go to die. And at that point, I started to really dislike fireworks.

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

to attempt to cover up the damage.

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Sima's picture

@humphrey
How can they keep going with this? Dang.

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

waving a flag. It had a big F, then an American flag, then a big K,then at the bottom, JOE BIDEN.
The truck was headed to an American Legion hall, where a 4th of July celebration is going on.
I had to laugh.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

bondibox's picture

Today the President claimed to be the first black woman to serve with a black president. In the same interview he said this:

“He’s going to make the wealthy, large corporations pay their – I’m going to make sure they pay their fair share – he’s going to double down on tax rates for them,” he told Ingram. “And he wants to strengthen, he – I want to strengthen Medicare and Social Security, he wants to cut Social Security and Medicare.”

Also today he told active duty service members that he'd been in battle.

"The words may not have all gotten out, but the thoughts were great."

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“He may not have gotten the words out but the thoughts were great.”

@bondibox Any way to see the first woman president clip without having an X account?

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

bondibox's picture

@on the cusp This ought to play inside a login window https://x.com/HotSpotHotSpot/status/1808972172175835637

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“He may not have gotten the words out but the thoughts were great.”

@bondibox Funny how he gets a bye on omissions of words. "to have" would have helped in a couple of those sentences.
He has an illness that makes him nuts. I have had relatives, friends, neighbors, even clients, that became ill, then, as a result, nuts.
It can happen to anybody.
Why are tptb so twisted in knots about this now? And why are they worried about an election 5 months, more or less, away, when the nutty man can drop nukes today? What about us for the next few months?
25th Amendment. Now. For us all. In the US, and the world.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

bondibox's picture

@on the cusp in the past decade I watched my dad decline. First he entered Read-Only-Memory mode where no new information could be stored. He owned one of the first Apple Mac's but still referred to faxes and emails as a "telex". Then he got angry that he was losing arguments. Eventually he became convinced his kindle controlled his bladder.

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“He may not have gotten the words out but the thoughts were great.”

@bondibox My pain pill addicted Mom (thank you, drs.) overdosed, repeatedly, so her bat shit crazy decline was brain cell deaths. Dad, 91, NEVER lost a mental step.
Nevertheless. I see it. My client wanted to probate his wife's will. During COVID, so it took 6 months, not 6 weeks, to get to court. 4 months into it, he came into my office with his shirt inside out, pants unzipped, so I called his daughter to step in, as she was the successor executor.
It was such a quick, but total, mental decline. It could happen to anybody at any time. Presidents do not have immunity from dementia. The man died a few months later.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Sima's picture

@bondibox
What my dad is going through now. I'm so sorry you and your father had to go through it. My Dad helped develop computers, the very first chips, and now, he doesn't know what one is or how to use one, or anything like that really. So sad.

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

soryang's picture

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語必忠信 行必正直