[update] For Those Who Might Care, I'm have launched my essay at TOP

I am getting recs, thank you, but not enough to make the rec list, I don't think.
Please come over and rec if you can. Thank you.

I originally posted my diary here on c99:


The Big Question: Will Sanders Folks Vote for Hillary in Nov? Probably Not. (Data)

http://caucus99percent.com/content/big-question-will-sanders-folks-vote-...

I have just launched it on Daily Kos, here is the link.
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/4/13/1508161/-The-Big-Question-Will...

I'm girding my loins as we speak. I welcome help from those who might want to give it a rec and possibly help out in the comments.

Thank you everyone. Go Bernie Go!
xoxo ~OaWN

P.S. Please watch what you say. Nobody should say that they will not vote for the Democratic nominee. Just keep to the fact that it is critical to vote FOR Bernie, or else the Dems are going to lose.

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Shahryar's picture

but then I guess it depends on how we define "most".

Let's look at what happened in 2012. Obama ended up with 4 million fewer votes than he received in 2008. Those missing votes didn't go to Jill Stein. I'm guessing, but not sure, that they were "Big Al" voters, people who were turned off by Obama's actual policy and declined to vote.

There was no real Democratic opposition to Obama in 2012, unlike this year when there's a halfway decent candidate running against the DNC approved person. Since 45%+ of the Democrats are Bernie supporters we'd be looking at an incredible Republican landslide if so many millions of nominal Ds didn't vote for Hills.

I've been meaning to throw in this item for a while and this seems to be a logical spot. Hillary supporters like to say she'll win the closed primaries where only Democrats can win. They willfully avoid the point that Democrats now comprise 29% of the electorate. They don't want to deal with the concept that any nominee must win votes of independents. They look at the Republicans, who are apparently going to nominate some sicko like Trump or Cruz, someone who's popular within a small section of Americans, someone who'd be rejected by the country at large, and they, the Hill lovers, recognize that the Republicans are in their little bubble....but don't understand that they, too, are in a similar bubble.

Oh well, right?

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PhilJD's picture

It's true though that I can "safely" do that in Chicago. If I lived in a swing state, I might hold my nose and vote yet again for the lesser evil. I detest everything about Clinton, but at least she won't support rolling back social gains like marriage equality, and I recognize that stuff matters a lot in the real lives of real Americans.

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Hillary Clinton 2016: I'm a proud progmoderate!

And a centrocrat. Wink

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Pricknick's picture

posted one. Then you have the honor of rabbit poo dumping their usual load.
You're off to a great start. (:

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Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Older and Wiser Now's picture

Kind of like those reviews you sometimes read on Amazon from folks who have never read the book.
It's pretty obvious what they are there to do. Thumb was great, he kept making jokes about speed-reading and time-stamps.

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~OaWN

Borkrom's picture

I am tired of accepting mediocre candidates. One that will sell his or her soul for what is best for them or the establishment. I am going to break the cycle. Therefore, I will vote for the Green party if Clinton is the nominate. Moreover, I will vote the best person for the other offices for the rest of my ballot.

By the way, the reason I am not writing in Bernie Sanders is because I want my vote to count. Many times either by law, sloppiness or apathy of the election clerk my special ballot would be tossed in the trash. I am not kidding about this matter, many instances election officials either do not count these supplemental or special ballot because it wastes their time and will not impact the outcome of the election. Therefore, your write in ballot will not count- so please consider this outcome if you write in Bernie in the fall (that is of course if he is not the nominee which I am praying, working and hoping for).

By the way, I typically Democrat voter, but I am not a straight ticket voter (in my mind that method is for sheep).

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I'm done rewarding the Democratic Party with bad behavior.

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Beat Trump with Bernie!

JayRaye's picture

as I do each day about this time.

Don't comment over there anymore or read the comments even, so can't help out in that way.

I admire you for doing this, OWN, a lot of research went into this diary, and perhaps it will reach someone who can be convinced by the facts.

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Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth.-Lucy Parsons

I feel that at least I can help keep the pro-Bernie writings in view, since there are so many potential eyes.

Other than that, I'm terribly repulsed by the place.

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Older and Wiser Now's picture

Thank you for coming over to rec, it got over 80 I think but that wasn't enough to make the rec list. Sigh. Oh well. I especially appreciate you for "holding your nose" just long enough to do a quick in and out. I wanted the rec list bad.

There were a few "that's interesting" comments, so I think some people ARE thinking.

Oddly enough, I noticed that it seems like some Sanders folks have made some new "mental connections" because of it, which get's me excited because maybe a Bro or a Sis might "take it to the next level" in some way.

It was kind of funny, in that I first did research because I was curious, the logic in my mind just tells me that the numbers don't add up and it occurred to me that I could do this project and it might be interesting. I just wanted to satisfy my curiousity.

THEN I found some stuff, and that was thrilling and lovely.

BUT THEN I wanted to tell others, and I realized -- how on earth can I tell the story in a way to get people to actually stop and listen to me for a few minutes? And all of a sudden I had a bit of a huge project on my hands.

I'm so glad this community was here for me to share it with first. The response was awesome. I knew that Daily Kos was gong to be rough, it was nice to get a bit of TLC over here before I ventured over THERE.

Oh yeah, the great and powerful kos even dropped a comment in there. Just one, rather boring all things considered. And it wasn't a Meta comment about my diary in any way, it was just part of the general flow of the conversation.

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~OaWN

hester's picture

hear stuff like you are suggesting.

Imho, Hillary will get 2/3 of Bernie supporters and no more. Just my 2 centimes.

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Don't believe everything you think.

stevej's picture

is that those saying that Clinton supported Obama in the general in 2008 are missing a big part of the story due to oversimplification. 2008 was an election between two establishment Dem candidates in a throw the GOP out election year. The unifying for the general had no big hurdles to overcome.

That is not the case in this cycle.

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“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire

Older and Wiser Now's picture

I agree with you, I think that too.

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~OaWN

elenacarlena's picture

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Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.

Older and Wiser Now's picture

You are so my hero ec!! The diary is a millions times better because of your help.

It's funny, a lot of things you told me I had told myself but somehow decided to ignore. Then you said it, and it gave me a new burst of desire to figure out how to fix it.

It wasn't a complete flop, I cannot tell you how heartbroken I would have been if that had happened, and I think it might have gone that way without your help.

LOVE YOU!!!
~OaWN

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~OaWN

PhilJD's picture

there doesn't permit me to do more.

I've been thinking a lot about some of this same stuff. If the Clintonistas were serious in their contentions that:

a) NOTHING matters as much as keeping the Thugs out of the WH
b) Clinton supporters will all reliably vote for the Democratic nominee no matter who that turns out to be
c) Many Sanders supporters will turn out to vote only for Bernie...

their own argument should compel them to urge their candidate to swallow her pride and take one for the team by dropping out of the race for the nomination.

Of course they'll do nothing of the kind; some because a Clinton nomination in truth matters more to them than keeping a Dem in the WH, others because preventing President Sanders is the most urging national business, more imperative than preventing President Cruz or President Trump or President Kasich.

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Hillary Clinton 2016: I'm a proud progmoderate!

Older and Wiser Now's picture

They had their little whims and went after them, serfs were just pawns to be used as necessary while they played their games.

Hillary really is like royalty, she wants what she wants, and the DNC is full of opportunists. Nothing personal against them, that tends to be the nature of the game.

But this quaint concept of doing what is in the best interests of "we the people"? They must laugh at the schmucks that actually think any of that is true. Sure they say grand and poetic things in public, but it is really all just show.

Will Hillary win? That is not part of their calcuation. She wants it, she goes after it, if it destroys the Democratic party and/or the country - too bad, so sad.

Will Hillary win? What a silly question! It's the question of a rube who doesn't have a clue about the game that's actually being played.

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~OaWN

riverlover's picture

--the didn't read group
--the denialists
--the trolls

The denialist group (or chest-bangers) do not give a shit about dis-alienating anyone under 30, the Bernieorbust group is lying, all indies are closet Dems who won't pay dues. So many compartments to disrespect. And no long view.

They are truly willing to destroy the country to save the party of their fealty.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

Older and Wiser Now's picture

same conclusion - it was so long, people were bound to want to talk without reading it. And that's what most of them did.

They are in their own bubble. They are right, and all outsiders are wrong. It's all very simple.

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~OaWN

new minas's picture

Nobody should say that they will not vote for the Democratic nominee - See more at: http://caucus99percent.com/content/those-who-might-care-im-have-launched...

And that is why I don't post there anymore. I refuse to provide content to those propagandists who are really nothing but an outlet for PR firms.

By the way, the response that you get is nothing but paid spin. Never consider that those regular hillbot trolls are anything BUT paid hacksters. That is why their arguments are so vacuous and intentionally deceptive.

You did some really good work here. You made your point. It is true. I know hundreds who are ardent sanders supporters who will never vote for hillary.

The head to head polls show it quite clearly with a 4-6% increase in republican votes and a 2-3% decrease in democratic votes. And this is of those who are forced to answer within the poll. Actually going out and voting for a candidate that you know is a warmongering liar who wants to destroy the middle class with further trade deals and the environment with fake business as usual fossil fuel policies are an ENTIRELY different story.

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If you do not understand that being part of the "establishment" is a slur in the minds of 99% of the U.S. population then you are completely out of touch and probably are one.

Older and Wiser Now's picture

I have come to be quite supicious over there, your really do never know if the other person is sincere. Except for Thumb, lol, he knows. And maybe you know too. I think I'm getting on to one, but most of the time I start thinking of my mother - just an old person with opinions that are not truly based on evidence. But that doesn't stop her! And I kind of get why too, but when I have those thoughts in a discussion I stop and think, "What the heck am I doing? Am I just arguing with bored old people who don't have anything better to do?"

The thing is, many of the HRC folks TRULY admire HRC. I don't get it, but I think it's true. And they just cannot FATHOM that we think the kind of things we do about her. It's not that she's "second best" ... it's that we don't trust her. And so voting for her is a completely repellent and disgusting thought.

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~OaWN

Pluto's Republic's picture

... McClatchy-Marist poll showed that just 69 percent of Sanders supporters say they would support Hillary Clinton or vote for her. If this is the sentiment toward Hillary so early in the battle — when the national Primaries were at the halfway mark — what will change that number?

Right now, fewer that half of the American public has really heard what Bernie Sanders has to say, largely as a result of media suppression. In fact, as many as 20 percent of Americans have never heard the name, Bernie Sanders. But when they do hear Bernie, his numbers grow.

So, if Bernie stays in the Primary Race to the end, much of nation will learn who Bernie Sanders actually is. Despite the media blackout of his campaign and the attempts to bury the Democratic Debates with deplorable scheduling, most Americans will hear Bernie's vision for the future.

At the same time, the continuing primary race is shining an ever brighter light on Hillary. Little by little, people are seeing news and reading data about her reckless deciscions and corrupt diplomatic self-dealing over the past 15 years.They are becoming conscious of the terrible social consequences of having a neo-conseervative sociopath like Hillary Clinton in the government. They are also noticing how they, personally, have been harmed by the neocon-driven destruction of foreign nations and the displacement of entire populations.

When the convention finally rolls around, the Party will decide who the nominee is. They are not going to pick Bernie. So, how will Sanders supporters react at the Convention when they are handed a Hillary button and a shit sandwich?

By the convention, Sanders supporters will number more than half of the Democratic voters and most of the Democrat leaning Independents. How will that work out for the Party?

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IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"
Older and Wiser Now's picture

... and I keep remembering that "May you live in interesting times" is an old Chinese curse.

Things are so interesting I just can't stand it, lol. And that's the truth.

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~OaWN

shaharazade's picture

I reced your diary but man o man the stupid and nasty is just unbearable. Kos is a dick and the party Royalists are scary brainwashed. Why bother as they don't care to hear from anybody who is not a loyalty oath taking Democratic cultist. It just makes me want to vote for Trump and hope it destroys the current Democratic party. Of course that wouldn't do it as they will decide it was lefty spoilers and not the the fault of the owners of the place's refusal to be democratic or Democratic. The party machine will then move further right using the excuse that this is what people in the mythical center want. Victories for compromise between the complicit duopoly will continue. They like it when the only people voting are partisan cult members who don't care what they win and call the horrifying agenda that the Democratic party implements,Yankee Doodle Dandy.

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shaharazade's picture

It's no one's business who I or anyone votes for. How can you handle the blatant authoritarianism? Why preach to a bunch of fascistic asshole's who actually like what Hillary is about. This is not what democracy looks like.

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new minas's picture

allows paid PR folks to populate his blog, he gets paid to do so. He is considered to be a Third Way asset. They allow sock puppets from their sponsor PR firms and they all work on regular talking points for their blogs. They rec each other and work to defend their talking points with further talking points.

The line is being towed and they are all on the take. It would only take about 25 of them to own the discourse but when the bernie crowd got too much for them they simply shut down discussion, allowed for flag abuse and banned people. They don't care about democracy, their own traffic or truth. They are lying neoliberals and neocons. They are not representative of the people and should be considered with the same regard as one would give the corporate lackeys of CNN and MSNBC.

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If you do not understand that being part of the "establishment" is a slur in the minds of 99% of the U.S. population then you are completely out of touch and probably are one.

Older and Wiser Now's picture

It means a lot to me, I do get the desire to not venture there at all, and I respect it. I just wanted this diary to make the rec list so very badly, to spread the message farther.

I can see the party moving right with Hillary. It's like I see the party on a dolly with wheels and Hillary is just moving it on further to the right. Soon we'll have the Republican party, and the Republican wannabe party, sucking at the very same teats and trying to pretend that they are more noble because they are for the little guy - only they aren't.

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~OaWN

MsGrin's picture

Both Elfling and Kos commenting. Very impressive. You must have hit the site where it lives.

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'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member

Their argument was both very week. Don't they realize that every time Bernie gets attacked that his supporters send him love with their small donations to the tune of a couple of million dollars. It just makes it hard for the smears to stick with a war chest growing to fund Sanders's campaign. The man is squeaky clean in his political career.

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Older and Wiser Now's picture

My heart kind of stopped when I saw kos' avatar. Then I read his post, and it seemed like he was just being part of the conversation, it wasn't meta about my diary at all.

I hadn't thought about both of them commenting, that's interesting. I did get the idea that maybe somebody brought it to their attention for some reason, lol.

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~OaWN

mimi's picture

I think it doesn't make sense, look at the comments you get. The TOP is ridiculous now for the comments they accumulate. No sincere person would comment over there in those threads. Forget about it.

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Older and Wiser Now's picture

I do understand why people don't want to go there. I rather hated to ask, but I thought it was for a good cause.

It is funny, they call us so mean and vulgur, and I just don't see it. But maybe what you put out comes back to you, and they are putting out pricks and being surprised when people respond accordingly.

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~OaWN

I'm on a semi-self-imposed TO.

I got a warning for "flagging a tip jar for disagreement" of a Hillary supporter who came back from a TO for flaming out and calling Bernie supporters all sorts of things, and just all around BAD. In the diary, complaining about getting flagged, s/he wrote that it was "The Broze" fault s/he was put on TO. I was one of the first few to comment, and noted that the time out was for BAD and using the "BernieBro" invective, which they did again, in the diary. The jar was swarmed by folks who just thought it was terrible that a Hillary supporter should get a TO, and it actually sat on the Wreck list all day.

I've been waiting, since Sunday afternoon, for someone in moderation to review it, because I should not have gotten a warning. I flagged it for the "BernieBro", which the diarist edited, but put in brackets [that name we're not supposed to use]. No response. They just don't care if people participate there anymore, unless they bow at Hillary's feet.

I refuse to acknowledge the warning until I get a review.

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Older and Wiser Now's picture

I'm sorry to hear of your situation. The whole flagging thing has always made me nervous, I tend to avoid as much as possible.

Re "that name we're not supposed to use" - I don't think I got the memo. I've used the DK name a couple of times over here, most ly to label links so people don't actually go over there without knowing it ... I hope I'm not breaking a rule over here. I see TOS and GOS all the time - is the agreement to just use those instead of "Voldemort"?

I hope you hear from them soon.

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~OaWN

"That name that we're not supposed to use" was what the diarist edited into their diary, instead of "BernieBros".

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Older and Wiser Now's picture

I guess I completely misread your comment at first, now I think I get it.

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~OaWN

Oldest Son Of A Sailor's picture

Then made 2 full passes through the comments making some...

I collected a flag on this comment:

Screen shot 2016-04-13 at 9.02.00 PM.png
http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1508161/60951438#comment_60951438

And on the 2nd pass Elfling and Kos had showed up...

By then I had things to do other than wade through ridiculous comments all afternoon and bailed from that scene. I really do not like being there any more...

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"Do you realize the responsibility I carry?
I'm the only person standing between Richard Nixon and the White House."

~John F. Kennedy~
Economic: -9.13, Social: -7.28,
Older and Wiser Now's picture

I'm sorry to hear about the flag Sad I agree, a lot of the comments were ridiculous and I realized that there was relatively little discussion about the diary itself.

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~OaWN

WTF? That's madness. Silencing you won't stop what you say from being true. I don't know who pisses me off more these days, omnishambles Hillary Clinton or her supporters. Those people are basically polishing a turd and telling me to look at how brightly it shines, but don't I dare mention that it's still a turd. I find myself praying with both hands these days that something explosive finally happens in the Panama Papers leak or the FBI investigation or anything to make her to take the exit into permanent political obscurity expeditiously.

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boing boing's picture

BTW Tipped and Rec'd the diary - - - started reading comments - - got down to #90 or so and gave up. Who is TRIX, doobsdibler, cycloptich0rn and the other hillbots? ? ? And when the replies go to this unreadable gibberish - -

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"
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" " " I just cant stand the stupidity any longer! Does anyone else have this problem with dkos's new format?

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Older and Wiser Now's picture

I don't remember seeing a long skinny comment like that - which is odd, I would think I would have remembered it. Oh well.

I do think that the smartest and funnest, lol, people are here and at reddit. I just shudder to think what life would be hanging out fulltime with those on the other side.

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~OaWN