Columbus Day

Submitted by earthling1 on Tue, 02/27/2024 - 10:42am

On our frequent trips up to the farm, we pass the Jefferson Davis ad hoc private memorial along side the I-5 freeway in Battleground, Washington.
It has seen it's share of controversy, along with the town of Battleground itself, which never saw a battle.
In recent years, a movement tried to take hold of destroying controversial Civil War monuments or moving them off of public property to soothe certain butthurt sensibilities. It came to a halt, I believe, because many if not most were removed to private collections and the revelations that Columbus didn't actually discover the Americas and instead brought disease that killed off the massive native population.
Faced with the prospect of canceling Columbus Day, removing statues, changing the names of countless towns, cities, and hamlets, and reissuing millions of schoolbooks, a compromise was reached.
Columbus was just some guy that sailed here in 1492, and we are to just leave it at that.
Except that was largely the point that most Americans think our history began, five hundred years ago.
According to Vladimir Putin's recent history lesson, Russia proper goes back another seven hundred years to the eighth century and civilizational Europe (the Old World) goes back thousands of years before that.
Lost in this mix of incomplete history is the fact that Native Americans had their own civilizations too, going back thousands of years themselves.
So before we decide to start rewriting the history books and destroying any more Bhutta carvings or middle eastern libraries, we should stop to consider that these icons are not always to remind us of our greatness, but sometimes of our stupidity.
The thread is open.

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Submitted by earthling1 on Tue, 02/27/2024 - 11:03am

I am not

particularly enamored with Jefferson Davis as a great leader or war hero. But his stance on states rights is coming back to either haunt us or guide us.
I do believe a civil war is brewing right here in America, and states rights is in the center of it.
Whether it is border security, abortion, transgender athletes, or AI, individual states are aligning up on one side or another.
Although I personally probably will not be around to see it, I would not want my grandchildren to have to look upon a statue of Bill Gates or Mitch McConnell.
Just sayin'.

—

Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.

Submitted by on the cusp on Tue, 02/27/2024 - 12:34pm

The issue of state's right to secede

@earthling1 was not properly settled by the war. The North won the war, but not the argument, which goes on to this day.
I do not believe history should be erased, but it should be examined, and once admired heroes should not continue to be in that glorified category once the truth comes to light.
We should stop celebrating Columbus Day.
His glory days are long gone.
Interesting that Battleground never was one!
Thanks for the OT.

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by earthling1 on Tue, 02/27/2024 - 12:47pm

The Battleground saga

@on the cusp
is how we should all wage wars, everyone is too lazy the lug themselves to the battleground and goes back to sleep.
And then just call it good.

—

Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.

Submitted by QMS on Tue, 02/27/2024 - 11:56am

Hey there

-
-
Changing the meaning of symbols is a sub-specialty of the brain wash goons.
Naming bridges and roads after politicians, then changing the names is pretty
weak. Disposable culture I suppose.

Thanks for the OT!

Submitted by earthling1 on Tue, 02/27/2024 - 12:42pm

Yeah, I've noticed

@QMS
that the much touted NASA effort to land a craft on the south pole of the moon was being played as a private corporate failure now that it has fallen over.
NASA furiously trying to distance itself from the debacle.
Someone forgot to turn a laser navigation switch on before blastoff.
Supposedly, we put 12 men on the moon and brought them back to earth, but 50 years later multiple countries are unable to drop a package there.
Humm......?

—

Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.

Submitted by Cassiodorus on Tue, 02/27/2024 - 2:14pm

Part of the problem --

in recent years, a movement tried to take hold of destroying controversial Civil War monuments or moving them off of public property to soothe certain butthurt sensibilities.

-- was that the monuments were not just "Civil War monuments" but rather monuments to the power of the slaveholding elites, all of them erected at the height of the Jim Crow regime in the South, to reinforce the impression among the Black populations of that time that they were powerless. And, indeed, they were powerless, as the various massacres and lynchings of that time fully demonstrated.

—

"Our national nightmare is over -- time for a new one." - anonymous response to "Biden's" statement

Submitted by earthling1 on Tue, 02/27/2024 - 3:36pm

Agreed

@Cassiodorus
Kinda like today. Their need to reinforce their dominance over us and our helplessness to change anything.
Hence the remark about Gates and/or McConnell.
Thanks for pointing that out.

—

Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.

Submitted by on the cusp on Tue, 02/27/2024 - 3:26pm

Jake Bequette, candidate for US Senate

from Arkansas, has said military recruitment is down due to bad education. Kids see our American heroes as racists who did bad things to disadvantaged people. It makes them hesitant to put their lives on the line for the country.
It's hard to make this shit up.

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by earthling1 on Tue, 02/27/2024 - 3:49pm

Seems to me

@on the cusp
lack of proper education drives recruitment for lack of better options.
Mr. Baquette is simply clouding the issue with crappy rhetoric devoid of intelligent thought.
Himself a product of subpar education.
You're right about the shit.
Thanks for the post.

—

Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.

Submitted by doh1304 on Tue, 02/27/2024 - 7:42pm

Is it 2016 again?

@on the cusp
Will the voters respond to Genocide Joe like they did to The Kill Crazy Lovecraftian Horror or will they simply give up and stay home?

—

On to Biden since 1973

Submitted by earthling1 on Tue, 02/27/2024 - 7:57pm

I don't think

@doh1304
voting even matters anymore. Especially in Federal elections. I'm trying to avoid voting for the worst evil, but it's impossible to tell the difference.
Maybe school boards.

—

Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.

Submitted by on the cusp on Tue, 02/27/2024 - 8:04pm

The only thing I am sure of is

@doh1304 that post-election, things will get worse. They are the winners. We are not. I vote, haven't quite reasoned why. Maybe to get rid of a crooked local sheriff? Beyond that, I am not invested in the outcomes.

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by humphrey on Tue, 02/27/2024 - 5:11pm

Duh! I guess that is what happens when you live in the

DC bubble.

President Joe Biden’s campaign is surprised by the depth of Democratic anger over the Gaza war, according to officials in his campaign, the White House and Democratic Party. 'We are getting hurt more than we anticipated,' a senior campaign adviser said https://t.co/iFNavqAm1n pic.twitter.com/a1QBKgW3l0

— Reuters (@Reuters) February 27, 2024

Submitted by earthling1 on Tue, 02/27/2024 - 7:09pm

Whoa,

@humphrey
a senior campaign manager popped his head out of the bubble and took a look around and remarked: "This ain't Disneyland!"

—

Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.

Submitted by on the cusp on Tue, 02/27/2024 - 8:06pm

@humphrey Not a follower of X.

@humphrey Not a follower of X. What was this guy's big sin?

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by humphrey on Tue, 02/27/2024 - 9:14pm

I am not exactly sure but overall he was quite informative,

@on the cusp

Sad. This guy was reporting quality content from Austria. He is a trained officer so he knew what was talking about.
Mikael Valtersson is still available with his daily war report.

— Gene (@Gene1774) February 27, 2024

Or it might have been something like this.

Got flagged for saying Zionisssstt the other day

It’s over fly

— Mohammed Daoud (@Krybto10) February 27, 2024

Submitted by on the cusp on Tue, 02/27/2024 - 9:29pm

Thanks.

@humphrey Support Ukraine and Israel or be disappeared.
Coming to America soon!

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by humphrey on Tue, 02/27/2024 - 5:28pm

Wow! This just happened to one of my favorite accounts that

I follow.

I was led to believe that supposedly Elon Musk was in favor of free speech?

Umm hello? pic.twitter.com/PkZac6Giu9

— ayden (@squatsons) February 27, 2024

Submitted by TheOtherMaven on Tue, 02/27/2024 - 9:19pm

"Free Speech" for those who can pony up the membership fee

@humphrey

that is to say, Billionaires Only. The rest of us can be muzzled at the Owners' will.

(The older I get, the more cynical I become.)

—

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Submitted by janis b on Tue, 02/27/2024 - 9:46pm

"(The older I get, the more cynical I become.)"

@TheOtherMaven

Might one call that enlightenment ?

Submitted by janis b on Tue, 02/27/2024 - 10:08pm

Abel Tasman, who ‘discovered’ NZ and its Maori tribe

is not immortalised by a national holiday, but there is a lookout that I visited last week with a memorial to him. He named it Murders Bay in 1642. More recently it's known as the Golden Bay, an exceptionally beautiful part of NZ.

Having made landfall in Van Diemen’s Land on November 24, they spent just a few days in coastal waters before pressing eastward.
By mid-December they had closed to the west coast of Staaten Land (between Hokitika and Okarito), which they then followed north. At sunrise on the 17th smoke was seen rising from the shore—probably from a Ngati Tumatakokiri kainga near Taumauku (Cape Farewell). The next evening, having rounded Farewell Spit, the ships anchored off Taupo Point in 15 fathoms of water.
That evening they saw lights on shore and made out two waka paddling.
toward them. At the same time two ships’ boats which had been despatched to look for fresh water and a better anchorage returned to the Dutch vessels.
“About one glass after [our men] had returned on board the people in the two prows began to call to us, and that with a coarse rough voice, but we could not understand in the least what they said,” recorded Tasman.
There followed a bizarre exchange as Maori repeatedly sounded an instrument “like a Moorish trumpet”—possibly to see off what they took to be unknown spirits—and in an effort to establish a rapport with those in the wakas trumpeters aboard Heemskerck and Zeehaen replied. As darkness fell the Maori left off and retired to the shore while Tasman took the precaution of ordering watches to be set and “the munitions of war”—muskets, pikes and cutlasses—got ready.
The groundwork for tragedy having been set, the encounter was taken up again the next morning when a waka appeared near the anchored ships. Tasman displayed linen and knives in an attempt to lure the Maori aboard but they returned to shore. Zeehaen’s officers then boarded Heemskerck for a prearranged Council where it was decided to anchor closer to shore “as these people (as it seemed) sought our friendship”.
*
SOON SEVEN MORE waka appeared, at which Zeehaen’s skipper ordered his quartermaster back to his own vessel to limit the number of Maori allowed aboard. Suddenly, one waka rammedn and attacked the quartermaster’s small boat. Three of its crew were killed, and a fourth mortally injured. The stunned Dutchmen fired cannon and small arms at the retiring Maori—who took one of the bodies—but did not hit them.

The place of the attack they named Murderers’ Bay.

https://www.nzgeo.com/stories/abel-tasman/

Here is a photo from the lookout ...

Submitted by earthling1 on Tue, 02/27/2024 - 11:00pm

Thanks for that bit o' history

@janis b
I'm left wondering if the Maori remember it the same way? Did they have a written language or was it all oral handed down through generations?

is not immortalised by a national holiday, but there is a lookout that I visited last week with a memorial to him. He named it Murders Bay in 1642. More recently it's known as the Golden Bay, an exceptionally beautiful part of NZ. Having made landfall in Van Diemen’s Land on November 24, they spent just a few days in coastal waters before pressing eastward. By mid-December they had closed to the west coast of Staaten Land (between Hokitika and Okarito), which they then followed north. At sunrise on the 17th smoke was seen rising from the shore—probably from a Ngati Tumatakokiri kainga near Taumauku (Cape Farewell). The next evening, having rounded Farewell Spit, the ships anchored off Taupo Point in 15 fathoms of water. That evening they saw lights on shore and made out two waka paddling. toward them. At the same time two ships’ boats which had been despatched to look for fresh water and a better anchorage returned to the Dutch vessels. “About one glass after [our men] had returned on board the people in the two prows began to call to us, and that with a coarse rough voice, but we could not understand in the least what they said,” recorded Tasman. There followed a bizarre exchange as Maori repeatedly sounded an instrument “like a Moorish trumpet”—possibly to see off what they took to be unknown spirits—and in an effort to establish a rapport with those in the wakas trumpeters aboard Heemskerck and Zeehaen replied. As darkness fell the Maori left off and retired to the shore while Tasman took the precaution of ordering watches to be set and “the munitions of war”—muskets, pikes and cutlasses—got ready. The groundwork for tragedy having been set, the encounter was taken up again the next morning when a waka appeared near the anchored ships. Tasman displayed linen and knives in an attempt to lure the Maori aboard but they returned to shore. Zeehaen’s officers then boarded Heemskerck for a prearranged Council where it was decided to anchor closer to shore “as these people (as it seemed) sought our friendship”. * SOON SEVEN MORE waka appeared, at which Zeehaen’s skipper ordered his quartermaster back to his own vessel to limit the number of Maori allowed aboard. Suddenly, one waka rammedn and attacked the quartermaster’s small boat. Three of its crew were killed, and a fourth mortally injured. The stunned Dutchmen fired cannon and small arms at the retiring Maori—who took one of the bodies—but did not hit them. The place of the attack they named Murderers’ Bay. https://www.nzgeo.com/stories/abel-tasman/ Here is a photo from the lookout ...

—

Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.

Submitted by janis b on Tue, 02/27/2024 - 11:11pm

All oral

@earthling1

I'll look for any aural memories that might be available.

Submitted by janis b on Wed, 02/28/2024 - 11:28pm

Regarding the Maori oral recollection

@earthling1

I am not satisfied by what I have found so far. But I did enjoy reading this ...

"After this encounter, the Maori people lived peacefully for 127 years with no contact from the outside world."

2. First contact with Europeans

The first European encounter with the Maori was a very short one occurring in the year 1642. It was when Abel Tasman, a Dutch seafarer, sailed from Indonesia and stopped at Golden Bay or Mohua in New Zealand. Tasman was met with a Maori tribe in their wakas.

Intrigued, Tasman lowered a boat of the crew to meet the Maori in hopes of becoming friends. This resulted in four crew members getting killed by the Maori as they rammed their boats. Tasman knew he wouldn’t be able to make contact with hostile Maori tribes in Golden bay and left the majority of the area unexplored.

After this encounter, the Maori people lived peacefully for 127 years with no contact from the outside world.

https://www.wildvoyager.com/blog/maori-history-of-new-zealand/

Submitted by janis b on Thu, 02/29/2024 - 12:14am

To be fair

@janis b

From the history that I've read or am aware of, the Maori people lived peacefully for 127 years with no contact from the outside world, but had hostile conflicts between tribes, not unlike Native American Indian tribes.