Open Thread - Thurs 21 Sep 2023 - LCS - Little Crappy Ships

Little Crappy Ships

Recently I read a ProPublica story which explores how the navy has spent billions on littoral combat ships (LCS) which can't do what they are supposed to do, constantly break down, and ... well, it's mind boggling, really. It's a very sad and scary look into what our military and other authorities do with our tax dollars when they have their hearts set on something, don't understand what they are doing really (how the heck they get in charge of things like... I dunno, the Navy, is just insane), and just spend, spend, spend without a frapping care. The ProPublica story is: The Inside Story of How the Navy Spent Billions on the “Little Crappy Ship” by Joaquin Sapien. And ProPublica has published a shorter article about the key takeaways of their exploration: Eight Things You Need to Know About the Navy’s Failed Multibillion-Dollar Littoral Combat Ship Program.

USS-Freedom-130222-N-DR144-174-crop.jpg
The littoral combat ship USS Freedom (LCS 1) in Feb 2013. By 2016 she was a mess, according to the ProPublica article. Image from Wikipedia.

A key takeaway from ProPublica's articles is that Navy officials 'vastly underestimated' how much the ships would cost to build. This seems, to me, to be standard operating procedure for the military (and the government as well) and the companies that own the military, errr, I mean the companies that make military products. Yea, that's what I meant! Like, the F-35! Or the JASSM (Joint Air-to-Surface Strike Missile) which Caitlin Johnstone wrote about recently.

From the ProPublica Article:

The LCS program offers another clear lesson, one seen in almost every infamous procurement disaster. Once a massive project gains momentum and defense contractors begin hiring, it is politically easier to throw good money after bad.

One of the original reasons for making the ships was to have small ships which could change roles in combat and other instances by changing weapons systems. This was inspired by what Admiral Vernon Clark saw in Denmark in 2002; a Danish naval vessel upon which the weapons systems could be changed, basically at will. The Admiral wanted that! So he advocated for building a series of small ships, manned by only 40 sailors; a 'sort of swiss army knife for the Navy' in which weapons systems could be changed as necessary. But the LCSs never were able to do that, they never were able to interchange weapons systems from combat, to submarine hunting, to mine detecting. Note: another 'swiss army knife', the F-35, is also a very expensive failure for the Air Force, Navy and Marines.

The ships never really sailed successfully. Their sailors and officers had to spent almost all their time trying to fix the ships, and very little time actually sailing them. The parts, maintenance and many of the repairs were supplied or done by outside contractors often based in other parts of the country, or from foreign countries, so the ships were often stuck in port. This was an aspect of all of this which just made my eyes cross in disbelief. Our military is so insufficient it doesn't store parts and have maintenance workers at the bases in which the ships/airplanes/etc are stationed but gets parts and maintenance from areas of the country far away from the bases, but also outside the country!?! How the heck are they supposed to fight wars then? How?

Eventually the powers that be in the Navy realized this program was dumb, and tried to stop it. So Congress ordered 3 more LCS to be made! The Navy 'wound up with more ships than it wanted, at an estimated lifetime cost of $100 billion.' (quote from ProPublica article).

There are many more such stupid boondoggle idiot programs in the military (and other areas of the government), I know. But these articles by ProPublica really brought knowledge of such back to my mind. What can I do about it? I dunno. Sit back and enjoy the spectacle, I guess, and have another sip of my drink. Ohh, and get all my relatives to work for a defense company, if that work is not moved to another country.

It's been a busy week, so I don't have a lot to write more about. But I did want to highlight the 'little crappy ships'. Thanks for reading and here's the open thread - and remember, everything is interesting if you dive deep enough, so tell us about where you're diving!

Share
up
17 users have voted.

Comments

Sima's picture

And, we finally got some rain Tuesday Night/Wednesday morning. For those getting a lot of rain, I'm sorry to be excited about the rain, but this was our first rain for months. I expect the grass will be green again in a couple of days and next week we are supposed to get a lot more rain. We'll see. Ohh, it got clear Wednesday night, and we've got temperatures down into the mid 30's. Yep, Fall is on its way!

Today we are celebrating my sister's 58th birthday. Autistic she is, but she does love her birthday!

And like many others at Caucus99% we are harvesting, harvesting, harvesting. Have about 4 paper shopping bags full of apples from one tree. There's about 5 more bags to harvest! I have no idea what to do with all of the apples, talk about a bumper crop! I will figure it out though. Good thing I adore apple pies, apple cakes, apple cookies, apple sauce, apple juice, apple chutney...

So, how's your day going? And what's on your mind? Let us know in the comments!

up
11 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Lookout's picture

Incompetence is the name of the US game. The goal is profit not functionality. Remember those $500+ hammers from years ago? Of course today there's not even an audit for the DOD...they don't want all their graft to be obvious.

Of course the bottom line is take this equipment to war and you're going to lose... so lets start a war with both Russia and China. Boy is the US gov't a bunch of arrogant losers.

We've been enjoying 50F mornings and highs in the 80's. Got most of the fall garden in and still have sweet potatoes to harvest next month. Having to give away peppers.

Congrats an the apple harvest. It's been that way with the muscadines here. Currently have about 4 gal of wine going and another gallon of vinegar fermenting.

Enjoy the coming Autumn season and thanks for the OT!

up
11 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Sima's picture

@Lookout
Love them, they aren't 'native' here, but I can get them at the local specialty stores. I make really good grape jelly and jam and so on out of them. Wine would be good too!

Sounds like the weather is holding good for you. When Summer ends, in a day or two, we are set to start into fall weather immediately. Rain is on it's way for all of next week. I don't think I'll get all the garden chores done by then, but maybe the apples will be harvested. Leeks will have to wait. And beans are about finished now.

I don't see how the gov expects to win any war against Russia and/or China. Ahh well, have a great weekend and fun with the growing stuff!

up
4 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

usefewersyllables's picture

"LCS", I say "target".

Same thing with aircraft carrier strike groups. They are so far beyond obsolete that it is agonizing to imagine that we put crews in harm's way on them. They are great for "projecting power", which is best pronounced as "terrorizing non-nuclear nations". At the start of any exchange with a nuclear power, every one will be on the bottom in the first 10 minutes, courtesy of one or two relatively cheap nuclear-tipped torpedos or cruise missiles.

We have always built our military to fight the last war, and oh by the way maximize profit to the purveyors. Well, the last one we won was WWII. When we try to fight WWIII with overpriced WWII hardware and tactics, we will lose. Period, full stop, end of statement.

As the WOPR computer said in 1983's "WarGames":

up
12 users have voted.

Twice bitten, permanently shy.

Sima's picture

@usefewersyllables
So true. Your opening line made me laugh, even though it's sad too. EQ to fight the last war, yep, that's what all the stuff seems to be, or at least, all the plans and ideas about strategy and tactics and such.

Ohh well. Have a great weekend!

up
2 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

QMS's picture

congress and pentagon throw away our treasuries
like there is no tomorrow, which going at the present rate,
may just come to be. War is a terrible waste of resources.

It is almost comical to watch the pols now making noise
about the 'investment in Ukie democracy' has to stop
some budgetary negotiations without accountability.
Let's just ignore the $120 billion already disappeared.

There is no diplomatic off-ramp in sight. Sigh.

Thanks for the OT Sima!

up
7 users have voted.

truth is considered foreign influence, world peace is a threat to national security

Sima's picture

@QMS
Made out of seawater. That has to explain it all, right? Or maybe it's made out of crap? I dunno, bought some goat feed recently that has kelp in it. So maybe they are eating money? Smile

Great song. Thanks for the video! Have a great weekend!

up
2 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

ggersh's picture

I'm taking a wild guess here, but it seems as if mediocrity
is now a feature not a bug of the amerikan way.

Autumn here has been great, a bit of rain a bit of sun and temps
in the low 70's during daytime and mid 50's at night. That's perfection
for sleeping.

up
8 users have voted.

I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish

"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"

Heard from Margaret Kimberley

usefewersyllables's picture

@ggersh

is to signal virtue, not to actually attempt to achieve or exhibit it...

There's no money in it. We've lied to ourselves for so long that the entire concept of objective truth is merely a mirage in the rearview mirror.

up
8 users have voted.

Twice bitten, permanently shy.

QMS's picture

@usefewersyllables

has at least 4 major components IMO.

Greed and corruption of our leaders is one.
An inustice system which ignores 'white collar crime'
allows this cancer to grow unchecked.

The second is the military and economic pursuit of
global dominance policies coming home to roost.
Authority doubles down with their consequences.

Next is the monopolistic control of media. Censorship
and repeated half-truths without room for nuance has
degraded critical thinking to less than sustainable levels.

Add to that our right to protest is being criminalized,
non-compliance is not tolerated and voluntary submission
has become the norm.

Q

up
7 users have voted.

truth is considered foreign influence, world peace is a threat to national security

Sima's picture

@QMS
are spot on. Just spot on.

up
3 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Sima's picture

@ggersh

We've had nice cool nights, makes for good sleeping. The days were warm (for here) but now it's cool and the rains are coming, according to the experts.

Mediocrity? Yes, I think it's a feature now. Crazy. Love the bit about football and elections. So true! Have a good weekend!

up
2 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

snoopydawg's picture

.

What do you get from this picture?

IMG_6231.jpeg

Give me your opinion and I’ll add more information on it. It’s cropped a bit , but the bus is parked in an empty field.

up
3 users have voted.

“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt

QMS's picture

@snoopydawg

Dressed in patriotic garb. Makes you wonder what the future of this child will be.

up
3 users have voted.

truth is considered foreign influence, world peace is a threat to national security

snoopydawg's picture

@QMS

I should have said that the picture is about Kennedy an his campaign and not the child. Does that change anything for you?

up
2 users have voted.

“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt

QMS's picture

@snoopydawg @snoopydawg

it is clear enough. The reply was only my impression of it.
Child: foreground in the muck, motor home beyond: owned by a pol.
And the patriotic garb. Am I missing something?
To me it is a juxtapositional snapshot of potential futures.

thanks snoop

up
1 user has voted.

truth is considered foreign influence, world peace is a threat to national security

Sima's picture

@snoopydawg
Kennedy stuck in the mud and the kid just making it right through? Or maybe the powers that be sticking Kennedy in the mud, but the kid is alright? Not sure. Not sure.

up
3 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Just to add to our list of miseries, this ZeroHedge article. Also read somewhere there are serious signs Hillary will enter 2024 Presidential race.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/rebooted-clinton-global-initiative-l...

up
6 users have voted.

Anya

usefewersyllables's picture

@Anya

parachute her in at the convention. I wasn't planning to vote this time- but if they do that, I will happily take the time to vote against her.

I'm never going to get what I want from our system, but in that specific case I'll make the effort to avoid what I *don't* want. Disgusting.

up
5 users have voted.

Twice bitten, permanently shy.

Sima's picture

@usefewersyllables
I'll vote against her, definitely.

up
4 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

snoopydawg's picture

@Anya

We watched as millions of people donated to the Haiti relief funds only to see the Clintons go in and steal it for their benefit and to screw the Haitians out of everything that would be in their benefit:

Hillary Clinton's State Department pressured Haiti to suppress minimum wage in sweatshops in order to benefit US clothing manufacturers.

Clinton Foundation donors were were handed government contracts to clean up in the aftermath of the earthquake.

Bill Clinton intervened in the jail sentence of Laura Silsby, a convicted child trafficker who attempted to smuggle 33 children out of Haiti.

A former Haitian government official set to expose the Clinton Foundation's misdeeds in Haiti shot himself in the head a week before he was able to testify.

The Clinton Foundation even grifted Haiti's lime industry.

Haiti's former Senate president said Hillary Clinton 'tried to bribe me!'

CGI was shuttered in 2017 after Hillary Clinton lost the 2016 election and donations mysteriously dried up. It was rebooted in 2022.

Silsby was caught when she tried to take those kids and when she was her excuse was that they were orphans. Except many still had parents that were looking for their kids.

Money that was supposed to be used to build apartments and affordable housing was stolen by Bill who confiscated farm land to build a factory for better paying jobs which never gave any jobs. But boy there sure was less farm land to grow food.

Plus this tweet tells even more of the story.

Today, the Clinton Global Initiative announced their very own program to rebuild Ukraine. The US is sending the World Bank $25 billion. Then, the World Bank is sending money to the Clintons. And then the Clintons are sending it to Ukraine.

Joe Biden also just appointed a Democrat mega-donor to be the Ukraine reconstruction czar. Her qualifications? She's a billionaire heiress who bankrolled Obama's election.

But don't you dare ask where our $100 billion of aid went, because the Ukrainian army's American trans "disinformation" czar says asking questions is treasonous.

Much more in the video.

https://twitter.com/JesseBWatters/status/1704310428153635145

This might be one reason why the globalists don’t want the war to end. Why only rebuild half of Ukraine when you can rebuild all of it?

Good news is that republicans are standing against sending more money there and many want investigations into where it has gone to.

up
6 users have voted.

“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt

Sima's picture

@Anya
Not again! NO!

up
5 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

QMS's picture


Rupert Murdoch to step down as chair of Fox and News Corp

and then become Chairman Emeritus at the companies. Sorta like king without the hassles.
..with his son Lachlan set to become the sole chair of both companies. Keep it in the family.

made me laugh
washing his hands like that

https://www.rt.com/news/583350-murdoch-not-chair-anymore/

up
4 users have voted.

truth is considered foreign influence, world peace is a threat to national security

QMS's picture

Can't you see?

up
3 users have voted.

truth is considered foreign influence, world peace is a threat to national security

Sima's picture

@QMS
Thanks!

up
3 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so