@Fishtroller 02
and don't forget that the US had spent at least 5 billion in the previous decade to poison Ukrainian minds.

Why don't you learn a bit of the history of the conflicts you support? As it is apparent that you don't bother to view responses to your false claims, I will post this entire rebuttal for you to read.

DOCUMENTS INDICATE UKRAINE PLANNED DONBASS ATTACK WITHIN DAYS OF RUSSIAN INVASION

Having written recently that it may be a bad idea at his time to keep trying to explain why invading Ukraine should be understood in context, it is with trepidation that I’m now going to do just that. The reason is that there are documents that just came to light which, if verified, prove that those who believed that Russia was trying to prevent a genocide were correct. Of course, if you are in the habit of assuming that any statements released by Russia are by definition false, don't bother reading further.

Although you’ve probably never heard since it is never reported in American media, Russia reported that there were as many as 125,000 Ukrainian troops inside the ethnically Russian Donbass region of Ukraine by December of 2021, when the 8-year old conflict between Ukraine and the breakaway Republics was heating up again. These troops had been trained and heavily armed by the US, which had been encouraging Ukraine to forcibly take back. On February 24th, the day the invasion began, Ukraine was clearly poised to invade the self-declared independent Republics of Donetsk and Luhansk. The newly revealed records confirm what many of us suspected, that the Ukrainian invasion was scheduled to occur within days.

It is very likely that this was apparent to Russian military intelligence, which would provide a totally different explanation for why the invasion occurred even as Russia was negotiating with Ukraine than the idea that Putin was simply “mad” and “wanted to restore the long-lost Russian Empire.” The claim that Putin was lying about not wanting to invade was based on the fact that he was conducting a troop buildup while negotiating, and in the end he did invade. However, taking literally Putin’s statement that Russia had “no plans to invade” is disingenuous. Obviously, the Russian military buildup meant that they had a plan, but he said repeatedly that whether there would be war depended entirely on Ukraine’s actions. It is entirely possible that he would have preferred to not invade, as he repeatedly indicated. Unless, of course, you start with the assumption that he is mad.

Unlike those who believe the US wanted to avoid war, Zelensky understood what Putin was saying. He called for a halt to inflammatory rhetoric coming from the US and asked Biden to come to Ukraine underscore the fact that there need be no war. In the end, Zelensky was put in a position where he had no choice but to refuse to deescalate the situation by removing troops from Donbass. The video in this article shows why: When he had tried order troops out of Donbass in 2019, neo-Nazis with much greater power over the government and military than their numbers would indicate laughed in his face and sent him away. That’s how a Jewish president came to realize that he had better go along with what these US-backed fascists had in mind.

So go ahead and hate Putin if it makes you feel better. War is always a choice, and it is always brutal. Civilians are always killed, even though dead children make excellent propaganda for those who want to paint a war as one-sided. But if you want to prevent the next war, for God’s sake try to understand the logic of both sides of this conflict. More specifically, do whatever you can do to try and get your government to stop constantly provoking a nuclear power, while denying its legitimate security interests.

Keep in mind that Zelensky had originally agreed to discuss the situation with Putin but the US and hard liners within Ukraine put the kibosh on it.

Turkey Says Progress Made in Ukraine Talks as Zelensky Warns of WW3 if Diplomacy Fails
Mar 20, 2022

Moscow and Kiev are nearing agreement on a number of key issues in talks to end fighting in Ukraine, Turkey’s top diplomat said. While the progress marks a positive sign for diplomacy, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky warned that a failure to strike a deal could kick off a “third World War.”

In an interview with Hürriyet on Sunday, Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said “there is convergence between the two sides” and that they “have almost reached agreement” on four “critical” concessions from Ukraine in exchange for a ceasefire.

Those four points include Kiev’s agreement to neutrality and non-membership in the NATO alliance, the demilitarization and – as Russia puts it – ‘denazification’ of Ukraine, as well as the removal of restrictions on the Russian language. Cavusoglu did not spell out exactly what each concession would entail.

Though any agreement will likely require approval from the leaders of both countries, the last point should be easily accepted by Zelensky, a native Russian speaker whose Russian-language film ‘Love in the Big City 2’ was banned in Ukraine in 2018 under a law creating “quotas for Ukrainian-language content.”

In exchange, Russia would declare a ceasefire and withdraw its troops from Ukrainian territory, Cavusoglu said.
...

The US doesn't give a damn about how many Ukrainians will die. After all, half the population are Russian despite Russian speech now being outlawed.

Again, it is obvious, like 90% of US citizens, you are completely ignorant of the historical factors that have led up to this conflict. You simply parrot the war mongering MSM.

#7

@ban nock

and believe what ya wanna believe

#9 I followed some links from comments up above, and then googled the links to find out what the web sites are all about.

Russian propaganda. I guess you can find anything you want on the net, why so many here want to read let alone believe, Russian propaganda, is beyond me. Hard to characterize in a left/right context.

@ban nock
of one of those links that you consider propaganda? Maybe I missed something.

I checked your comment "Ukraine is being supplied with ever more weapons while Russia is salvaging computer chips from washing machines." to see how valid it was.

The truth about Russia using dishwasher chips in military equipment?
May 24, 2022 - by admin(at)defenceview
...
“We have reports from Ukrainians that when they find Russian military equipment on the ground, it’s filled with semiconductors that they took out of dishwashers and refrigerators,” commerce secretary Gina Raimondo told the Senate Committee on Appropriations on Wednesday.

US Commerce Department spokesman Robyn Patterson also confirmed that Raimondo’s story came from Ukrainian officials who told the US Secretary of Commerce that when the Ukrainians opened the seized Russian tanks, they found chips for refrigerators, commercial and industrial machinery were used.
...
But according to the analysis of experts, it is highly likely that Mrs. Raymond was deceived. So how much dependence on foreign countries of the Russian military chip market is? This starts with the peculiarities of military chips.
...
Features of computer chips for military equipment

First, the needs of contemporary military chips and civilian chips are completely different. When it was first introduced, the performance of military chips was much higher than that of civilian chips.
...
While the military chip does not have high requirements for computing power, but more emphasis is placed on reliability in harsh environments. At the same time, the selection conditions of the military chip, such as mass, power consumption, etc., are not higher than that of the civilian chip.

In other words, a military chip would rather be “dumb and bulky” but with stable performance. For example, the computer chip used on the F-35 stealth fighter, although it has a much lower processing speed than the chip of our mobile phones used today, but the level of stability is higher, a lot of.
...
So what are the performance requirements of military chips? Take the most modern fighters , which are already highly informatized, for example. The US F-22 stealth fighter, dubbed the world’s most powerful air-to-air fighter, uses only Apple Computer’s PowerPC series chips.
...
The F-35 manufacturer, Lockheed Martin, said that the chip used in the F-35’s central computer is PowerPC G4, a similar civil chip that was released from the 1990s to 2005. used is from 0.2 micrometer to 90 nanometer.

Can Russia produce chips for its weapons?

The question is, is Russia capable of making such chips? Although Russia’s electronics industry is quite backward and has long been sanctioned by the US, self-production of chips of this level is completely within their grasp.

The Washington Post also acknowledged that the Russian chip maker Mikron, currently the only company in Russia, has the ability to mass produce 65 nanometer process chips; although “this technology has been mass-produced in the semiconductor industry since 2006”.

In other words, Russia is perfectly capable of producing even the military chips necessary for high-end fighter jets. Not to mention tanks and other ground equipment that require a low level of informatization.

Second, although Russia does not have the ability to produce high-end chips, it can still bridge the gap, through other methods in the military sphere.
...
The US has been punishing Russia in the chip field for a long time, and at least until now, the Russian military has not fallen into the tragic situation of not being able to produce military chips because of US sanctions.
...
Even the US Army has used a lot of civilian chips in weapons, the main reason is the huge consumption of precision-guided munitions in the war on terror, so the US Army has to buy civilian chips through many private contractors, to meet the urgent needs of ammunition production.

Therefore, if civilian chips are found in some devices that are temporarily supplemented by Russian missiles, drones or small tanks, that is actually quite normal.

So the story “chip in the dishwasher” to infer that, “Russia pushed to the limit by the US” is a very strange story; even ordinary people, but interested in military science, can guess basic truths.

As for the Ukrainian or American officials, do they really not know, or are they trying to deceive public opinion?

BTW, if you are going to post pictures, please date and label them or at least give the link where you got them from.

#9 I followed some links from comments up above, and then googled the links to find out what the web sites are all about.

Russian propaganda. I guess you can find anything you want on the net, why so many here want to read let alone believe, Russian propaganda, is beyond me. Hard to characterize in a left/right context.

@ban nock

Not only on this topic, but more so on the issues surrounding Covid and the vaccinations. It doesn't make a dent in the thinking of some when it comes to these topics if you point out the error and non-science in these websites being used. The anti-vaxxers are lauded and applauded, and sometimes, so is Putin because he has been so abused by everyone (!). Of course I have found Russian generated "info" behind much of what is posted here. But if you use the "wrong" sources that have been deemed governmental or MSM etc. you might as well hang up your opinions and slip out the door. I have come to just ignore this frantic bent on piling on so much stuff to prove a point that one doesn't even know where to start to address it.

#9 I followed some links from comments up above, and then googled the links to find out what the web sites are all about.

Russian propaganda. I guess you can find anything you want on the net, why so many here want to read let alone believe, Russian propaganda, is beyond me. Hard to characterize in a left/right context.

@Fishtroller 02

stimulates discussion. Do you really want to comment on sites where all are in agreement all the time? Doesn't that get a little intellectually boring? How about addressing the points being made instead …

Let me know when you start ‘discussing’ what people say when they respond to you and the points they’ve made. Start with your insistence that Russia had no right to start their military operation after Ukraine had been killing ethnic Russians in the Donbas because they didn’t want to recognize the government put in place after the coup. Or that they didn’t have a right to self defense from NATO putting troops and missiles in countries that borders them. Or America’s support for the same type of Nazis that killed 27 million Russians during WW2. There were lots of articles written about the Nazis there before they were scrubbed from the net. That’s more true historical facts.

Russia attacked its neighboring state in late February, following Ukraine’s failure to implement the terms of the Minsk agreements, first signed in 2014, and Moscow’s eventual recognition of the Donbass republics of Donetsk and Lugansk. The German- and French-brokered protocols were designed to give the breakaway regions special status within the Ukrainian state.

Next address the fact that Ukraine signed the binding Minsk agreements, but refused to enforce it. Zelensky tried once by telling his military to stop attacking them, but unfortunately the Nazis in the national guard told him to shut up about it or they’d kill him. It’s on video.

Russia and Ukraine have other binding agreements and one was that Ukraine would not have nuclear weapons, but Zelensky said he was going to do it anyway just before Russia decided to go in.

Let’s see you ‘discuss’ these points which many have posted numerous times but you keep ignoring.

Of course no one wants an echo chamber or that everyone has to believe the same things. But there’s a difference between opinions and facts and it’s the facts that you keep ignoring and refuse to debate.

So instead of complaining about people copying and pasting facts maybe you can read and then debate whether you think they are true or not. Both NATO and Ukraine threaten the legitimate national security interests of the Russian nation, and the lives of the ethnic Russian population of the Donbass and other eastern Ukrainian territories.

Or keep believing in the government propaganda about the conflict because that’s what it is. After the lies about Iraq and Libya I don’t understand why anyone would.

#11

opposite POVs because it stimulates discussion. Do you really want to comment on sites where all are in agreement all the time? Doesn't that get a little intellectually boring? How about addressing the points being made instead of publicly musing over someone's motives?

"I keep trying to find sense in what sometimes appears senseless." Here's a solution.... ask ban nock about it.

@snoopydawg Matt and the interviewee makes for dissension and marginalization as certain opinions expose one to be called one thing(CtS or Trumpers) or mainstream MSM CIA backers.
Where is goes off the rails is that MSM is plastered all over the place.
The other points of view come from obscure websites, (must be Russian propaganda), because ANY opinion writer, such as Hedges, Blumenthal, Tiabbi, Mate', Hedges, Hudson, and so forth, are Russian operatives, due to their newly found obscurity. MSM bans then. They are hard to find, obscure, flagged as Russian prop before you open the link.
Whereas, MSM propagandist have media leeway, the opposition must resort to other platforms. The more obscure the platform, the more likely the smear of being a Russian mouth piece one becomes.
The CIA must be Proud of this!

#13

safety of the experimental mRNA shots, but can only imagine their outrage if I call them vaxaholics because even after getting 4-5 jabs they can still get infected and sick as more and more people are doing in high jabbed countries and will line up for more boosters.

Both Obama and the NYT has admitted that drug companies are doing human trials on the experimental ‘vaccines’. HuffPost has an article that calls them that, but say it on twitter and get banned. Go figure.