America's "moral outrage" is hypocritical self-parody
Denial can be a useful coping mechanism, but when taken to an extreme it just gets sad.
People living in the middle east are dumbfounded at the ability of Americans to convince themselves that we actually have a moral high ground when talking about Russia's war in Ukraine.
It's as if people have forgotten that only 2 years ago 44% of respondents in the 53 countries surveyed were concerned that the US threatens democracy in their country.
fear of Chinese influence is by contrast 38%, and fear of Russian influence is lowest at 28%. The findings may in part reflect views on US comparative power, but they show neither the US, nor the G7, can simply assume the mantle of defenders of democracy.Since last year, the perception of US influence as a threat to democracy around the world has increased significantly, from a net opinion of +6 to a net opinion of +14. This increase is particularly high in Germany (+20) and China (+16).
Just a few years earlier Gallup found that besides being the globe's biggest threat to democracy, the US is also the biggest threat to world peace.
When it comes to waging war and destroying nations, Russia has nothing on the U.S.
As we recently reported, the U.S. and its allies have dropped more than 337,000 bombs and missiles, or 46 per day, on nine countries since 2001 alone. Senior U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency officers told Newsweek that the first 24 days of Russia's bombing of Ukraine was less destructive than the first day of U.S. bombing in Iraq in 2003.
Russia, despite accusations that say otherwise, has not bombed indiscriminately.
What about Mariupol? Isn't that so much worse than what we did? No.
U.S. military officers told Amnesty International that the U.S. assault on Raqqa in Syria was also the heaviest artillery bombardment since the Vietnam War.Mosul in Iraq was the largest city that the United States and its allies reduced to rubble in that campaign, with a pre-assault population of 1.5 million. About 138,000 houses were damaged or destroyed by bombing and artillery, and an Iraqi Kurdish intelligence report counted at least 40,000 civilians killed.
Raqqa, which had a population of 300,000, was gutted even more. A UN assessment mission reported that 70% to 80% of buildings were destroyed or damaged. Syrian and Kurdish forces in Raqqa reported counting 4,118 civilian bodies. Many more deaths remain uncounted in the rubble of Mosul and Raqqa.
So the U.S. bombs and invades and kills a Hell of a lot more than Russia. Despite that, we are still the good guys, right? Unlike Russia we aren't malicious. Our goals are noble.
Or so we like to believe.
What our actual goals are can be seen in this video from 2003 of U.S. troops breaking into an Iraqi bank.
— adil (@AdilAdil3panan) April 9, 2022
More recently there is the $7 Billion we stole from Afghanistan.
Even if the withdrawal had issues, 12 deaths pale to the 240,000 afghans who died over the 20-year conflict. Of those 240,000, an estimated 71,000 were innocent civilians who were unfortunate enough to have been born an Afghan or Pakistani. Destruction in Afghanistan wasn’t just limited to human casualties either. In 2020, 47% of the country remained in poverty, and the United Nations Development Programme warns that 97% of Afghans could plunge into poverty sometime this year without aid...
Instead of helping to solve the problem, the United States chose to steal $7 billion from Afghanistan. These funds make little difference for a country like the U.S., which has a total GDP of over $20 trillion. In comparison, $7 billion is roughly 35% of Afghanistan’s total GDP.
Let's not forget our illegal occupation of Syria. The one where President Trump accidentally spoke the truth of why we were there.
When former President Donald Trump said U.S. troops would remain in Syria to “keep the oil” at the end of 2019, the Pentagon scrambled to deny it. American forces only stayed in Syria to comprehensively defeat ISIS, a spokesman explained; any military presence around the oil fields was purely part of the mission to overcome the so-called Islamic State.
...
On April 8, 2020, Delta Crescent was granted a one-year sanctions waiver in order to “advise and assist” a local oil company in northeast Syria, an area known locally as Rojava and controlled by the Kurdish-led and American-backed Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF)...
For every barrel the company helped export outside Syria, it would receive $1, according to the production-sharing agreement and the company’s application to the Treasury Department’s Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC).
To avoid embarrassment, not to mention being guilty of 'plunder' (which is a war crime), Biden ended the contract for this shady relationship. Nevertheless, Syria's stolen oil still winds up being used by U.S. forces.
So exactly where do we get the right to sit in judgement of anyone else?
Comments
We also let Turkey get away with invading Syria and Iraq at will
AP just dropped this story minutes ago:
https://apnews.com/article/europe-middle-east-turkey-iraq-hulusi-akar-23...
And of course Turkey has also been militarily occupying half of Cyprus, an EU member, for decades.
US hypocrisy is blatant
When we invade countries we destroy all the infrastructure. Russia is trying to keep the country intact while destroying the military capabilities.
Americans are somehow blind to our history in Afghan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Somalia, Vietnam, Cuba, and on and on. Talk about propagandized.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Russia has zero tolerance for Nazis
The only place that a Nazi symbol is tolerated in Russia is the statue of Marshall Zhukov under the hoof of his horse off of Red Square. Russia lost 27,000,000 people to the Nazis. The US lost 2% of that in the European theater. Of the losses of the German army, Russia did 90% of the work in men and war equipment at a huge cost.
So Ukraine, with the blessing of the US has amassed a considerable force of genuine Nazis, who trace their roots back to WWII, where they had a considerable success killing Jews, Poles, Roma, and Russians. Today's Ukrainian Nazis worship Bandera and other notable killers. They were initially allied with Germany, but Hitler dropped them because they were too arbitrarily violent even for him. Not so for the US and the EU today.
So how does this play in Russia? Well, you can imagine, it's really easy to figure it out. When President Putin says that Russia will de-Nazify Ukraine he means that literally. All of them, 100%, will be either killed or placed in prison for a very long time. Russia will not stop this war until this goal is accomplished. It's like this rogue bastard of a WWII remnant popped up. Russia needs to finish that war. If you understand Russia at all, you will feel their deep seated anger and revulsion at the West for even thinking that using Nazis was a plausible idea.
Capitalism has always been the rule of the people by the oligarchs. You only have two choices, eliminate them or restrict their power.
Oh well I didn't realize that Russia/Soviet Union was such
a good international player. Less bodies means less guilt- right? We should just back off of Ukraine and let Russia work on raising their killing fields numbers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_interventions_by_the_Soviet_Union
Not you too, gjohnsit.... really?
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
So we should just overlook obvious hypocrisy?
The firebombing of Dresden and Tokyo were terrible.
So the Nazis could take a moral high ground against us, right?
Because that's what's going on here. We are the bigger murderers.
That doesn't justify what Russia is doing. But anyone in the Middle East can see this for what it is.
Of course they can see it.
And I've been raging about the behavior of the US throughout its history for years. I often recommend the book The Devil's Chessboard as a prime example of our incredible hypocrisy and sins against humanity. And that book doesn't even touch the massive amount of damage we have done to the natives in this country and the world. Only the Roman Catholic Church probably has us beat on body counts.
That being said, I am having a hard time with any excuse making for the actions of Putin in Ukraine. Hecate wrote an essay on here that pointed directly to Putin and I thought it was spot on. I don't see solutions... only more raging. In this situation, I think the picture is perfectly clear. We have a man who is leading his country into the direct violation of another country's sovereignty and massacring thousands of people and causing untold damage to a country's infrastructure. There is just no excuse for it. None. I want to see solutions for this. Guess I will have to look harder.
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
You must have missed it
Stop sending weapons to Ukraine. Get behind the Minsk accords. Stop expanding NATO to Russia’s borders. Russia sent Biden a list of ways to avoid the special military operation and Biden ignored it.
This is another proxy war where we are arming the worst of the worst so that we can be the only super power. When we’re done with Russia we are going to turn our sights on China. We might not even wait that long. We are fcking around in Taiwan hoping to goad China into attacking it.
Have you seen this gawd awful video of a Ukraine actress pretending to cut the head off a Russian?
Stop believing all the propaganda about this conflict. The media and the intelligence agencies just admitted that they were making things up to manufacture consent for another war. Again it’s the Iraqi troops throwing babies out of incubators again. It’s Saddam has WMDs again. Quit being fooled.
Again…. Russia didn’t start this, we did. Stop ignoring that. It started long before Obama’s brutal coup in Ukraine in 2015. How many times do you need to be told that? Russia went in to stop the war. Biden is making sure that it continues.
Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.
Look hard at
a new essay on Glen Greenwald's site. Seems military advisors are trying to influence the anti-monopoly bills sitting in the house and Senate. They say Big Tech is needed, at the expense of yours and my internet access and internet information/content, in order to fight Russia. If the bills are killed, the Military says we will be safer against cyber attacks and differing opinions about Russia that might lead to divisions and protests.
The military says US citizens must not disagree with US foreign policy, particularly about Russia. Information must be controlled so we be in solidarity.
The manipulation of information is for our own good.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
@Fishtroller 02 The USSR has been defunct
The USSR has been defunct for decades. Blame Russia for whatever they've done since then that you think they should be blamed for, but don't saddle them with what was done by a quite different government/regime.
ETA: on the other hand, the USA has had the same government system for centuries so it doesn't get a fresh start.
OK then just look at what Putin has done with Russia
if you wish, but there is not a cold clear line between the players under the Soviet Union and Russia.
https://www.history.com/news/vladimir-putin-russia-power
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
How about the US backing off Yemen?
and Syria where we still occupy the oil fields, Iraq which has asked numerous times that we leave. And may as well add the decades long attempt to overthrow Cuba. If you can't see the hypocrisy I'm sorry for you.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Don’t forget about the billions that Biden stole from
Afghanistan which has led to mothers selling their kids and others selling their organs. And up to 30 million people starving. Just like the millions in Yemen who have been starving and dying since 2015 when Obama decided to back the Saudis in the genocide there. A few years ago the death toll from our sanctions on Venezuela was 40,000. Gawd only knows what that number is now.
The point of the essay is the US hypocrisy in calling out Russia for war crimes and crimes against humanity while ignoring that it is the number one human rights abuser in the world. But hey she got in her pro Putin jab at us while once again ignoring how we have been supporting, arming and training Nazis in Ukraine for many decades. She ought to look at the human rights abuses they themselves are doing to Ukraine citizens right gd now. Also ignoring the fact that Russia didn’t start this. We did.
Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.
Lookout- you needn't "feel sorry" for me.
I've been discussing US hypocrisies for many years on many sites. I have not seen you offer any solutions to Ukraine. Do you have some?
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
I'm guessing NATO disbanding wouldn't work for you
But that's just one man's guess
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
That was Trump's solution.
And it just might have come to pass if Putin hadn't attacked Ukraine. Now NATO is stronger than ever. Little chance that it will disband since they now have an even stronger reason to be.
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
No he wasn’t going to do that
Trump was telling countries belonging to NATO that they should be paying their fair share for funding it. There were no plans to remove America from it. Now who’s making stuff up?
And NATO had been sending weapons into Ukraine long before Russia invaded for self defense because RUSSIA DIDN'T START THE WAR. We DID.
I wonder why you continue here with all us 'pro Putin' folks that you said you can’t abide? No I’m not telling you to leave, I’m asking about your hypocrisy. You aren’t here for discussion, but just to keep posting propaganda that you have read or heard. If you would you would have seen how wrong you have been about the facts of the conflict and America’s role in Ukraine and how we have been supporting the Nazis. And your coming back days later to answer comments is interesting.
Again you are entitled to your opinion, but you don’t get to change what the facts are. Russia did everything it could to avoid having to go in and protect the Russians living in Ukraine that have been slaughtered by Ukraine forces for 8 years while we have been doing everything in our power to stop it from happening.
Siding With Ukraine’s Far-Right, US Sabotaged Zelensky’s Peace Mandate
I don’t think you will read this because I don’t think you are interested in learning the truth about why Russia made the decision to stop the war against them. But in case you do I’ve posted this.
Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.
These facts have been repeatedly
published at least a half dozen times in response to her. But she ignores them and still makes the same false claims again and again. She would fit well at DKos.
Oh I know
It’s like I said. Fish isn’t interested in a real debate here about facts. If she was she would acknowledge that she has been misinformed about what is happening in Ukraine. Russia has never intended to occupy Ukraine or do regime change there. Or go on to conquer Europe. They just want NATO to stop encroaching their borders and putting deadly weapons in the ones that joined after 1991. No American would think that Russia should have regime changed Mexico and Canada, put in a puppet government and fill them up with deadly weapons that could reach Washington in minutes. Why they think that we should be allowed to do to Russia that is beyond me.
Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.
Yep, because if anyone disagrees with you or your sources,
they are nothing more than fools who should shut up. That's it for you, isn't it? That's all you have to offer here. Conform to my opinion and certainly don't question my sources is pretty much your mantra. It's so amusing that you would say I would fit in at DKos. The reason they banned me is because I criticized the Dems for the whole Steele report incident and said that Hillary was continuing to lie to the American people about her email system. I also said that the DNC was sabotaging Bernie Sanders and possibly even threatening him behind the scenes. I was banned because I didn't knuckle under to their insistence that I adhere to their opinions and their sources. Does any of that sound familiar to you? I would suggest you get familiar with your own mirror, and stop trying to push me off of here.
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
Not cool
That's a low blow.
You haven't been here for discussion since the pandemic
started. You're only interested in those who nod their heads to all your posts and sources. Anyone else who posts opinions that don't agree with yours is totally misinformed or victims of propaganda. You can keep suggesting that I don't fit in here all you want. The question is, is this site like DKos where one must "fit in" to be a part of things or is this a truly free site where people can disagree? Well maybe you should ask the host about that. In the meantime, you know what you can do with comments like this...."It’s like I said. Fish isn’t interested in a real debate here about facts. If she was she would acknowledge that she has been misinformed about what is happening in Ukraine."
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
Oh, and one more thing...
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/01/trump-privately-discussed-destro...
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
This should make you happy
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRDHl14cLs8]
A peak into the global economic future
Pepe Escobar snagged an exclusive first interview with Russian Geoeconomics Tzar, Sergey Glazyev. He is one of the most influential economists in the world, a member of the Russian Academy of Sciences, and a former adviser to the Kremlin from 2012 to 2019, for the past three years he has helmed Moscow’s uber strategic portfolio as Minister in Charge of Integration and Macroeconomics of the Eurasia Economic Union (EAEU).
Exclusive: Russia's Sergey Glazyev introduces the new global financial system
The world's new monetary system, underpinned by a digital currency, will be backed by a basket of new foreign currencies and natural resources. And it will liberate the Global South from both western debt and IMF-induced austerity.
An excerpt follows, but the entire article offers a sweeping view of the new non-dollar economic system for international trade that is coming into existence — one I have been waiting for since 2003. To get a feel for what this war is really about, you may wish to read it in full.
When the US stole Russia's multi-billion dollar trading reserves, the US shot itself in the foot in the eyes of the world....
Sergey Glazyev: In a bout of Russophobic hysteria, the ruling elite of the United States played its last “trump ace” in the hybrid war against Russia. Having “frozen” Russian foreign exchange reserves in custody accounts of western central banks, financial regulators of the US, EU, and the UK undermined the status of the dollar, euro, and pound as global reserve currencies. This step sharply accelerated the ongoing dismantling of the dollar-based economic world order.
(Read on for the details of how the new global trading currency is going to work. Domestic currencies will remain the same.)
Carry a burning candle and share the light.
.
Wolff and Hedges have a good talk
about how Trump lost those easily winnable trade wars and now we are pretty much losing the Sanction Action.
Own goal after own goal is being scored by the american elites
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTMLvTYlg20]
EDIT: Adding a link that has Scott Ritter having an opinion
https://www.siliconinvestor.com/readmsg.aspx?msgid=33804890
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
they're all bad
I enjoy saying that as much as possible into what feels like a void. US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad.
I would think all of us here are well aware of what the US power structure does. It's called "what-about-ism". Like when Rachel Maddow would say, about Obama's nasty work, "but that's not good enough for Republicans!", like it was the Republican's fault. So too here. The US govt/military has unleashed horrors. That doesn't make me feel any kindlier to the Russians. It's almost irrelevant. It's true, yes, but what of it?
It matters
It makes it easier to sell a war if you can sell the idea that your guys are morally superior.
Absolutely, gjohns.
Rally around the flag stuff. Even Ukrainian flag stuff.
We forced Putin's hand with all our rhetoric, now we are drumming up support to make $ off the evil Putin.
I tell ya what...Putin is attempting to prevent more loss of lives of Russian speaking, Russian cultured people, losing patience after maybe 14,000 have been murdered.
Meanwhile, Hero Zelensky, responsible for Ukrainians, tossed them into the line of bullets and bombs to save his skin and that of his family, stopped pushing for a treaty with Russia. Some hero..he and his family are the only ones worth saving. Cowtowing to the Ukrainian Nazis is not statesman-like, but allows he and his family the chance to live and enjoy the billions he has received here lately.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
It’s exactly what is happening
Rah! Rah! Around the American flag got people to consent to the Afghanistan and Iraq wars even though neither country was responsible for 9/11 and now we have people rah rahhing around the Ukraine flag to give consent for Biden to send troops in. The anti war movement died when Obama continued Bush’s wars even though he ran on ending them. And like I said in the EBs lots of the ex anti war folks bitched when Trump wanted to bring the troops home from Syria and Afghanistan just because they thought he was doing it on Putin’s orders. They were pissed that he bombed empty buildings because of course Putin told him to. And of course it was Trump’s fault for the way Biden pulled out of Afghanistan. It’s even Trump’s fault that they know have hate in their little hearts towards his supporters.
Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.
Selling a war?
have a problem with selling a war. Who in the hell thinks war is a commodity that should be sold? Guess lots of people. Why? Blood thirsty barbarians? Think most people just buy into the propaganda that's pumped out ad nauseam. This country seems to be a freaking mess populace wise. Divide and conquer worked well. We're all brutal barbarians nowadays. Whose at fault, we all are. 'Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.' We're all to busy staying alive on multiple levels to be rational about their geopolitical nasty games. What are we supposed to do? Politics are useless and there is no news just propaganda and fear. Easier to blame The Russians or whatever they drag out as a reason for this nightmare.
bad
I like it -- enough to change my sigline!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Well I still want to eat…
but I bow out gracefully. It’s a great replacement. Thumbs up!
Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.
Speaking of hypocritical
What a dumb ass!
Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.
What are tankies?
It sounds like Twinkies, but I doubt they are as much fun to eat
question everything
From Wikipedia
Like I said, what a dumb ass. If kos can’t see that this IS a proxy war with Russia then he’s repeating what the CIA told him to say. I responded to his tweet with my how far he’s fallen since he created his blog to protest the Iraq war and that he closed the gate after he wrote his book. I doubt he will answer me. But I wasn’t the only one giving him crap. Lots of blue and yellow avatars on DK these days and lots of Russian xenophobia. They are some of the most misinformed people in the country now. They can thank Rachel for that. Remember when they planned on taking to the streets in protest if Sessions or Mueller got fired? And wore their pussy hats? Good times.
Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.
I wasn't aware that anyone listened to Markos anymore.
When was the last time he said something worth listening to?