Any thoughts on the upcoming war with Russia?

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 1:06am

"I think we're basically just on the cusp of war. I think it's all but certain in my mind that there's going to be a large European war... My concern now is making sure that the U.S. is postured for that outcome... The ball is in Putin's court" - @AVindman w/ @NicolleDWallace pic.twitter.com/QXiGv4B9as

— Deadline White House (@DeadlineWH) January 22, 2022

This guy thinks that the war will just be contained in Europe. America has done everything it could to push Russia into defending itself and Russia isn’t going to let us get off with not paying a price for it. It’s sounding like a done deal. Plus he’s lying through his buttocks! Never forget that Vindman betrayed his president by bringing false charges against Trump.

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Submitted by Pluto's Republic on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 10:22am

No thoughts, really. Just facts.

If Russia was installing nuclear missiles in Mexico along our border, I would expect the US to kick Mexico's ass for allowing such a blatant provocation to take place. We're still kicking Cuba's ass for that exact reason.

Ukraine made a lot of Democrats and Intelligence assets very, very rich. For example, the Biden family did very well for themselves in Kiev, and Ukraine became the largest national donor to the Clinton Family Foundation, knocking Saudi Arabia to a distant second place. But when the US State Department neocons hooked up with the local Nazis and toppled Ukraine's elected government, the Russian's turned off the money faucet that was keeping Ukraine alive. They diverted their oil pipeline infrastructure to bypass the Ukrainian oil-thieves — glad to be rid of them. Now the US is stuck in the briar patch with the deeply corrupt Nazis of Kiev.

Everybody's unlaundered money and dirty secrets are hidden in Ukraine, and that includes the US owned bio-labs that are churning out pathogens and weaponized viruses. The superpowers that have enabled Ukraine over the years would no doubt love to see Ukraine turned into a smoking black hole. In fact, that's probably the only thing that the US, Russia, and the World Bank can agree on.

The unintended consequences of the United States' short-sighted diplomatic fumbling have rapidly defined America's future.

Submitted by mimi on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 3:02am

On which territory will the bombs be dropped this time? /nt

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Submitted by Pluto's Republic on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 6:10am

If NATO bombs Russian civilian targets

@mimi

...duck and cover.

But, really, the EU forces in NATO are too cowardly to be involved in anything like that.

If the US takes on Russian targets of any kind, the Russians will deliver proportional responses in Ramstein-Miesenbach, Stuttgart, Baumholder, or Geilenkirchen, Germany.

The Russians are certainly not going to waste any ammunition in Ukraine. Their only interest is in protecting and rescuing the ethnic Russian-speaking communities that were annexed to Ukraine for utility services by Nikita Khrushchev, in the years following WWII. It was all one nation, then, the Soviet Union. It was a benign and practical decision at the time, that became political and murderous only since the 1990s when the Necons got involved in looting Russia.

In a best case scenario, Russia will be hitting only NATO targets in Europe. Those psychopathic war mongers will be treated like the Nazis who spawned them.. However, if NATO keeps its wheels on the ground in Europe — and I think they will — then the countries of Europe have nothing to fear. If the US escalates matters into a shooting war — as the final desperate act of a dying empire — Russian firepower will focus on local US bases and all points East of Russia — Washington, New York, and all military and ballistic weapons installations across the US.

Russia provides few stationary ballistic targets of its own. Most of Its long-range arsenals are miniaturized and mobilized — forever in constant independent motion, hidden under the vast Siberian forest that covers Russia. Just as the Russian submarines that roam the East and West coasts of the United States are covered by the oceans.

Russia has no interest in causing any civilian damage in Europe, which it has always considered its indigenous homeland.

China will not be involved at all. It will not engage in foreign wars, and will not come to the defense of any allies. It will provide humanitarian aid as needed. China's military has largely been dedicated to UN Peace Keeping activities. They do not roam the world looking for people to kill.

I doubt Russia will bother with a second strike against the US. US nuclear subs will not have many strategic military targets for a second strike, so they will be stuck with the cowardly task of hitting civilian targets in Russia and and other small countries they are obsessed with, just like they did in Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

The US, however, provides big targets everywhere, particularly its Navy battlegroups, which in the era of supersonic missiles, are basically fish swimming in a barrel. If they are heading home, they should be safe. Their countrymen will need any help they can provide.

Submitted by mimi on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 9:09am

have to read this several times, but I was

@Pluto's Republic @Pluto's Republic
actually afraid of the US bombs falling on Europe, not Russian ones. Too confused these dayx. Thanks for the long answer. I read it again.

#2 ...duck and cover. But, really, the EU forces in NATO are too cowardly to be involved in anything like that. If the US takes on Russian targets of any kind, the Russians will deliver proportional responses in Ramstein-Miesenbach, Stuttgart, Baumholder, or Geilenkirchen, Germany. The Russians are certainly not going to waste any ammunition in Ukraine. Their only interest is in protecting and rescuing the ethnic Russian-speaking communities that were annexed to Ukraine for utility services by Nikita Khrushchev, in the years following WWII. It was all one nation, then, the Soviet Union. It was a benign and practical decision at the time, that became political and murderous only since the 1990s when the Necons got involved in looting Russia. In a best case scenario, Russia will be hitting only NATO targets in Europe. Those psychopathic war mongers will be treated like the Nazis who spawned them.. However, if NATO keeps its wheels on the ground in Europe — and I think they will — then the countries of Europe have nothing to fear. If the US escalates matters into a shooting war — as the final desperate act of a dying empire — Russian firepower will focus on local US bases and all points East of Russia — Washington, New York, and all military and ballistic weapons installations across the US. Russia provides few stationary ballistic targets of its own. Most of Its long-range arsenals are miniaturized and mobilized — forever in constant independent motion, hidden under the vast Siberian forest that covers Russia. Just as the Russian submarines that roam the East and West coasts of the United States are covered by the oceans. Russia has no interest in causing any civilian damage in Europe, which it has always considered its indigenous homeland. China will not be involved at all. It will not engage in foreign wars, and will not come to the defense of any allies. It will provide humanitarian aid as needed. China's military has largely been dedicated to UN Peace Keeping activities. They do not roam the world looking for people to kill. I doubt Russia will bother with a second strike against the US. US nuclear subs will not have many strategic military targets for a second strike, so they will be stuck with the cowardly task of hitting civilian targets in Russia and and other small countries they are obsessed with, just like they did in Nagasaki and Hiroshima. The US, however, provides big targets everywhere, particularly its Navy battlegroups, which in the era of supersonic missiles, are basically fish swimming in a barrel. If they are heading home, they should be safe. Their countrymen will need any help they can provide.

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Submitted by mimi on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 9:16am

My son served on Malmstrom Air Force base in Montana

@mimi
and as a little low level airman had to clean up around the nuclear missile weapon silos.
He said something lately that those missiles don't work anymore, but may be I misunderstood.

Anyhow it is all bullshit and fucking fubar.

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Submitted by BORG_US_BORG on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 1:31pm

@Pluto's Republic What a terrifying

@Pluto's Republic What a terrifying synopsis of what is possible and hopefully does not occur.

It would be a tragic irony that a senile boomer President, born of a generation who mostly has had the best of everything, would destroy the possibilities of any future generations having, well, anything. Similar to the King Louis XVI quote ""After me, the Deluge" (of radioactive decimation).

#2 ...duck and cover. But, really, the EU forces in NATO are too cowardly to be involved in anything like that. If the US takes on Russian targets of any kind, the Russians will deliver proportional responses in Ramstein-Miesenbach, Stuttgart, Baumholder, or Geilenkirchen, Germany. The Russians are certainly not going to waste any ammunition in Ukraine. Their only interest is in protecting and rescuing the ethnic Russian-speaking communities that were annexed to Ukraine for utility services by Nikita Khrushchev, in the years following WWII. It was all one nation, then, the Soviet Union. It was a benign and practical decision at the time, that became political and murderous only since the 1990s when the Necons got involved in looting Russia. In a best case scenario, Russia will be hitting only NATO targets in Europe. Those psychopathic war mongers will be treated like the Nazis who spawned them.. However, if NATO keeps its wheels on the ground in Europe — and I think they will — then the countries of Europe have nothing to fear. If the US escalates matters into a shooting war — as the final desperate act of a dying empire — Russian firepower will focus on local US bases and all points East of Russia — Washington, New York, and all military and ballistic weapons installations across the US. Russia provides few stationary ballistic targets of its own. Most of Its long-range arsenals are miniaturized and mobilized — forever in constant independent motion, hidden under the vast Siberian forest that covers Russia. Just as the Russian submarines that roam the East and West coasts of the United States are covered by the oceans. Russia has no interest in causing any civilian damage in Europe, which it has always considered its indigenous homeland. China will not be involved at all. It will not engage in foreign wars, and will not come to the defense of any allies. It will provide humanitarian aid as needed. China's military has largely been dedicated to UN Peace Keeping activities. They do not roam the world looking for people to kill. I doubt Russia will bother with a second strike against the US. US nuclear subs will not have many strategic military targets for a second strike, so they will be stuck with the cowardly task of hitting civilian targets in Russia and and other small countries they are obsessed with, just like they did in Nagasaki and Hiroshima. The US, however, provides big targets everywhere, particularly its Navy battlegroups, which in the era of supersonic missiles, are basically fish swimming in a barrel. If they are heading home, they should be safe. Their countrymen will need any help they can provide.

Submitted by CB on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 1:32pm

US Navy aircraft carrier battle-groups

@Pluto's Republic
are nothing but holes in the water waiting to be filled by Russian Mach 8 Zircon and Mach 2.9 Kalibr missiles. Or, take out an entire battle group or port in one shot with a submarine equipped nuclear Veter depth charge having a 100 km range.

Putin gets more bang for his buck because he won't tolerate pork in the military budget.

#2 ...duck and cover. But, really, the EU forces in NATO are too cowardly to be involved in anything like that. If the US takes on Russian targets of any kind, the Russians will deliver proportional responses in Ramstein-Miesenbach, Stuttgart, Baumholder, or Geilenkirchen, Germany. The Russians are certainly not going to waste any ammunition in Ukraine. Their only interest is in protecting and rescuing the ethnic Russian-speaking communities that were annexed to Ukraine for utility services by Nikita Khrushchev, in the years following WWII. It was all one nation, then, the Soviet Union. It was a benign and practical decision at the time, that became political and murderous only since the 1990s when the Necons got involved in looting Russia. In a best case scenario, Russia will be hitting only NATO targets in Europe. Those psychopathic war mongers will be treated like the Nazis who spawned them.. However, if NATO keeps its wheels on the ground in Europe — and I think they will — then the countries of Europe have nothing to fear. If the US escalates matters into a shooting war — as the final desperate act of a dying empire — Russian firepower will focus on local US bases and all points East of Russia — Washington, New York, and all military and ballistic weapons installations across the US. Russia provides few stationary ballistic targets of its own. Most of Its long-range arsenals are miniaturized and mobilized — forever in constant independent motion, hidden under the vast Siberian forest that covers Russia. Just as the Russian submarines that roam the East and West coasts of the United States are covered by the oceans. Russia has no interest in causing any civilian damage in Europe, which it has always considered its indigenous homeland. China will not be involved at all. It will not engage in foreign wars, and will not come to the defense of any allies. It will provide humanitarian aid as needed. China's military has largely been dedicated to UN Peace Keeping activities. They do not roam the world looking for people to kill. I doubt Russia will bother with a second strike against the US. US nuclear subs will not have many strategic military targets for a second strike, so they will be stuck with the cowardly task of hitting civilian targets in Russia and and other small countries they are obsessed with, just like they did in Nagasaki and Hiroshima. The US, however, provides big targets everywhere, particularly its Navy battlegroups, which in the era of supersonic missiles, are basically fish swimming in a barrel. If they are heading home, they should be safe. Their countrymen will need any help they can provide.

Submitted by CB on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 1:58pm

China will mobilize it's forces

@Pluto's Republic
to cover Russia in the Pacific. They know if Russia goes down they will be next.

China, Russia conclude joint military exercise
Updated 12:54, 14-Aug-2021

A five-day joint military exercise between China and Russia, named ZAPAD/INTERACTION-2021, concluded Friday in northwest China's Ningxia Hui Autonomous Region.

A four-phase exercise was held on Friday morning and attended by more than 10,000 service personnel and main battle armaments, including aircraft, artillery and armored vehicles of various models.

China and Iran will also be increasingly involved in Russian support in the Middle East.

China, Iran, Russia carry out joint naval drills amid rising US headwinds

China, Iran and Russia have carried out three days of joint naval drills in the Gulf of Oman, their second such exercise since 2019.

“China sent the guided-missile destroyer Urumqi, the comprehensive supply ship Taihu, ship-borne helicopters and 40 members of the Marine Corps of the PLA Navy to take part in the drills,” the defence ministry in Beijing announced on Thursday.

The exercise, held from Tuesday to Thursday, aimed to demonstrate the capability of the three nations to “jointly safeguard maritime security” and promote regional peace and stability, the ministry said in a statement on its website.

#2 ...duck and cover. But, really, the EU forces in NATO are too cowardly to be involved in anything like that. If the US takes on Russian targets of any kind, the Russians will deliver proportional responses in Ramstein-Miesenbach, Stuttgart, Baumholder, or Geilenkirchen, Germany. The Russians are certainly not going to waste any ammunition in Ukraine. Their only interest is in protecting and rescuing the ethnic Russian-speaking communities that were annexed to Ukraine for utility services by Nikita Khrushchev, in the years following WWII. It was all one nation, then, the Soviet Union. It was a benign and practical decision at the time, that became political and murderous only since the 1990s when the Necons got involved in looting Russia. In a best case scenario, Russia will be hitting only NATO targets in Europe. Those psychopathic war mongers will be treated like the Nazis who spawned them.. However, if NATO keeps its wheels on the ground in Europe — and I think they will — then the countries of Europe have nothing to fear. If the US escalates matters into a shooting war — as the final desperate act of a dying empire — Russian firepower will focus on local US bases and all points East of Russia — Washington, New York, and all military and ballistic weapons installations across the US. Russia provides few stationary ballistic targets of its own. Most of Its long-range arsenals are miniaturized and mobilized — forever in constant independent motion, hidden under the vast Siberian forest that covers Russia. Just as the Russian submarines that roam the East and West coasts of the United States are covered by the oceans. Russia has no interest in causing any civilian damage in Europe, which it has always considered its indigenous homeland. China will not be involved at all. It will not engage in foreign wars, and will not come to the defense of any allies. It will provide humanitarian aid as needed. China's military has largely been dedicated to UN Peace Keeping activities. They do not roam the world looking for people to kill. I doubt Russia will bother with a second strike against the US. US nuclear subs will not have many strategic military targets for a second strike, so they will be stuck with the cowardly task of hitting civilian targets in Russia and and other small countries they are obsessed with, just like they did in Nagasaki and Hiroshima. The US, however, provides big targets everywhere, particularly its Navy battlegroups, which in the era of supersonic missiles, are basically fish swimming in a barrel. If they are heading home, they should be safe. Their countrymen will need any help they can provide.

Submitted by Pluto's Republic on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 3:43pm

I think not, my friend:

@CB

China will mobilize it's forces to cover Russia in the Pacific.

This would be a betrayal to the Chinese people, and to the principles that underlie China's 5,000 year old civilization. Military exercises — for the people who created the martial arts — are little more that Tai Chi at dawn. For the people who created a military treatise that is arguably older the the Bible and has been in print since it was written — and that I, myself, have translated from the Chinese — explains in detail how to win a war by never coming to blows. Military exercises are a spiritual practice in the Taoist tradition.

China will not depart from its principles and its natural order to intervene in Russia's battles. Wei wu wei.

China has held joint military exercises with the United States, as well. This means nothing;.

If we have a turn of Good Fortune, we will never discover which of us is correct on this point.

If the US engages with Russia, they will not be coming back to fight with anyone else.

China will be rendering aid to the United States.

That is the true Art of War practiced by the Superior Leader.

The Western mind is incapable of understanding China.

Submitted by CB on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 4:44pm

There is a new China awakening

@Pluto's Republic

China has held joint military exercises with the United States, as well. This means nothing;.

This occurred only during the early years with Chiang Kai-shek when most the funds the US sent was stolen by Chiang's wife and her two sisters. Once Mao was in full control in mainland China the US made a 180 degree turn against China. Did you read The China Mirage by James Bradley? Fascinating and informative book.

Should either China or Russia get in a hot conflict with the US, you can expect these countries to supply a formidable amount of war materiel AND expertise to one another in support. Each have their red lines and each will cover each others backs should a hot conflict with the US ensue.

Russia, China sign roadmap for closer military cooperation
November 23, 2021

MOSCOW (AP) — Russia’s defense chief on Tuesday signed a roadmap for closer military ties with China, pointing to increasingly frequent U.S. strategic bomber flights near both countries’ borders.

During a video call, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu and his Chinese counterpart Wei Fenghe “expressed a shared interest in stepping up strategic military exercises and joint patrols by Russia and China,” according to the Russian Defense Ministry.

“China and Russia have been strategic partners for many years,” Shoigu said. “Today, in conditions of increasing geopolitical turbulence and growing conflict potential in various parts of the world, the development of our interaction is especially relevant.”
...
Shoigu and Wei hailed a series of maneuvers that involved Russian and Chinese warplanes and naval ships, and signed a plan for military cooperation for 2021-2025.

On Friday, two Russian Tu-95MS strategic bombers and two Chinese H-6K strategic bombers flew a joint patrol over the Sea of Japan and the East China Sea, prompting South Korea to scramble fighter jets.

The bomber patrol followed joint naval maneuvers by Russian and Chinese warships and aircraft in the Sea of Japan last month.

Russian President Vladimir Putin and China’s leader, Xi Jinping, have developed strong personal ties to bolster a “strategic partnership” between the former Communist rivals as they both faced tensions with the West.

Russia has sought to expand ties with China as its relations with the U.S. and its allies sank to post-Cold War lows over Moscow’s 2014 annexation of Ukraine’s Crimea Peninsula, accusations of Russian hacking attacks, interference in elections and other disputes.

Even though Russia and China in the past rejected the possibility of forging a military alliance, Putin said last year that such a prospect can’t be ruled out. He also has noted that Russia has been sharing highly sensitive military technologies with China that helped significantly bolster its defense capability.

Submitted by Pluto's Republic on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 10:00pm

China has held military exercises with the US for decades.

@CB

This is one example of a particular kind and location:

US, Australia, and China Trilateral Military Exercise
The sixth annual trilateral military exercise continued despite increased regional tensions.

September 30, 2019

For the past six years, regardless of tensions experienced across the region, Australia has played host to a trilateral military exercise involving the United States and China. Named for one of Australia’s more aggressive marsupials, the Kowari exercise takes place each September in the tropical forests and waterways of either Queensland or the Northern Territory.

Providing practical field experience in collaborative problem solving, leadership, and teamwork, Kowari involves a select group of participants from the Australian Army, U.S. Army and Marines, and Chinese forces. Referred to as “the mother of corporate bonding events” by one source close to the exercise, its purpose is to build confidence measures, trust and effective communication among the three nations in an outdoor adventure environment.

While the exercise has slowly developed momentum as an annual event, this year’s activities coincided with increased debate in Australia as to whether its trade relationship with China is at odds with its defense alliance with the United States.

#2.1.4.1 China has held joint military exercises with the United States, as well. This means nothing;. This occurred only during the early years with Chiang Kai-shek when most the funds the US sent was stolen by Chiang's wife and her two sisters. Once Mao was in full control in mainland China the US made a 180 degree turn against China. Did you read The China Mirage by James Bradley? Fascinating and informative book. Should either China or Russia get in a hot conflict with the US, you can expect these countries to supply a formidable amount of war materiel AND expertise to one another in support. Each have their red lines and each will cover each others backs should a hot conflict with the US ensue. Russia, China sign roadmap for closer military cooperation November 23, 2021 MOSCOW (AP) — Russia’s defense chief on Tuesday signed a roadmap for closer military ties with China, pointing to increasingly frequent U.S. strategic bomber flights near both countries’ borders. During a video call, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu and his Chinese counterpart Wei Fenghe “expressed a shared interest in stepping up strategic military exercises and joint patrols by Russia and China,” according to the Russian Defense Ministry. “China and Russia have been strategic partners for many years,” Shoigu said. “Today, in conditions of increasing geopolitical turbulence and growing conflict potential in various parts of the world, the development of our interaction is especially relevant.” ... Shoigu and Wei hailed a series of maneuvers that involved Russian and Chinese warplanes and naval ships, and signed a plan for military cooperation for 2021-2025. On Friday, two Russian Tu-95MS strategic bombers and two Chinese H-6K strategic bombers flew a joint patrol over the Sea of Japan and the East China Sea, prompting South Korea to scramble fighter jets. The bomber patrol followed joint naval maneuvers by Russian and Chinese warships and aircraft in the Sea of Japan last month. Russian President Vladimir Putin and China’s leader, Xi Jinping, have developed strong personal ties to bolster a “strategic partnership” between the former Communist rivals as they both faced tensions with the West. Russia has sought to expand ties with China as its relations with the U.S. and its allies sank to post-Cold War lows over Moscow’s 2014 annexation of Ukraine’s Crimea Peninsula, accusations of Russian hacking attacks, interference in elections and other disputes. Even though Russia and China in the past rejected the possibility of forging a military alliance, Putin said last year that such a prospect can’t be ruled out. He also has noted that Russia has been sharing highly sensitive military technologies with China that helped significantly bolster its defense capability.

Submitted by CB on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 11:02pm

That is not exactly

@Pluto's Republic
"military exercises with the United States, as well." in the normative sense of the term.

“When Australia does joint exercises with the U.S., China is inevitably mentioned as a target or a spy,” commented James Laurenceson, acting director of the Australia-China Relations Institute. “Yet when Australia and China work together, this receives the briefest of mentions in mainstream media. As a result, the Australian public is given a lop-sided impression of the relationship as existing purely within the economic realm.”
...
“The U.S. has been unenthusiastic about Kowari since its inception,” says Thomson. “The objective of military-to-military engagement with China is risk reduction and Kowari does not contribute to that. The U.S. continues to participate in support of its alliance with Australia, which has made Kowari an important part of its own military diplomacy.”
...
For those involved in the exercise each year (predominantly lower ranked staff), Kowari is a prestigious experience. Since 2014, the exercise has produced an alumni of less than 200. While Australian troops have many opportunities to receive such outdoor survival training, for Chinese and American participants, it’s a unique experience in a unique part of the world.
...
It seems that Kowari’s future depends upon Australia’s ability to remain as wily and agile as the bush rat the exercise is named after given tensions between the United States and China. A further complicating issue is political uncertainty in the United States, particularly as Trump, who recently appointed his fourth National Security Adviser, now faces the specter of impeachment.

Submitted by Pluto's Republic on Sun, 01/23/2022 - 3:06am

This is getting a little silly.

@CB

China and the US have had hundreds of joint military to military exercises and training events. Many of them have been on US soil. China engages in regular joint military exercises with just about every military in the world.

China's Military is the premier component of the UN Peacekeeping Forces, and they naturally cooperate and train with the US military forces for dealing with every kind of potential disaster around the world.

Start with the Wikipedia list. Jstor has an exhaustive record of these events.

Feel free to move the goal posts around until you get used to an idea that was apparently inconceivable to you a few hours ago.

Perhaps you were snagged by the 18-month-long propaganda blast and intense gaslighting panic attack staged by the US to alarm the world with the news that Russia! Russia! Russia! and China and (god help us) Iran were engaged in a routine joint-military exercise for a few days. It's the end of the world as we know it.

You ought to be able to see this b.s. for what it is.

There is really nothing to see here.

Submitted by CB on Sun, 01/23/2022 - 3:05pm

You are the one who made the claim

@Pluto's Republic
so you should be the one to back it up.

China and the US have had hundreds of joint military to military exercises and training events. Many of them have been on US soil.

The link you supplied was to your original source so I went to Wiki:

China to attend major U.S.-hosted naval exercises, but role limited
March 22, 2013

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - China’s People’s Liberation Army has accepted an invitation to participate for the first time in a major U.S.-hosted naval drill, but legal restrictions will limit its role to less sensitive exercises, like disaster relief, U.S. officials say.
...
The Rim of the Pacific exercise, known as RIMPAC, is billed as the world’s largest international maritime exercise, with 22 nations and more than 40 ships and submarines participating the last time it was held off Hawaii in 2012.

Not all the participants are treaty allies with the United States. Last year’s participants included Russia and India.

But China has never participated in the event, although it did send observers to RIMPAC in 1998, the Pentagon said.

Deputy Defense Secretary Ashton Carter acknowledged China had agreed to participate in RIMPAC during a little-noticed speech on Wednesday in Jakarta. Carter said he was “delighted that they have accepted” the American invitation, extended last year by then-Defense Secretary Leon Panetta.
...

SECDEF Carter: China Still Invited to RIMPAC 2016 Despite South China Sea Tension
April 18, 2016
...
Since the last RIMPAC exercise, however, the South China Sea has seen some tense moments. There have been numerous allegations of PLAN ships harassing Vietnamese fishing ships in Vietnamese waters, an incident where a Chinese Coast Guard cutter rammed a Chinese fishing ship that was seized by Indonesian law enforcement inside Indonesian waters, and claims that Chinese fishing ships entered other nations’ territorial waters. China has also built up reefs so aircraft can land, ships can pull into port and radars and weapons could be deployed to these artificial islands.

China has acknowledged deploying military assets on the islands – such as anti-ship cruise missiles on Woody Island – though officials insist the weapons are for self-defense purposes only.

During his troop talk aboard Stennis, Carter said that “in the South China Sea China’s actions in particular are causing anxiety and raising regional tensions.” Still, China’s RIMPAC invitation stands, he said.
...

U.S. kicks China out of military exercise
05/23/2018
...
The United States has revoked an invitation to China's People's Liberation Army Navy to participate in a naval exercise, the Pentagon announced Wednesday, citing Beijing's destabilizing moves in the South China Sea — including deploying weapons and other military equipment on contested islands and artificial reefs.

China announced in January that it had accepted a U.S. invitation to participate in the biennial Rim of the Pacific exercise, the world's largest international maritime wargame.

The PLA Navy contributed five ships to the last one, in 2016, which included the militaries of 26 nations. China first participated in 2014, when it sent four ships along with an uninvited spy ship that skirted the exercise area.

“As an initial response to China's continued militarization of the South China Sea we have disinvited the PLA Navy from the 2018 Rim of the Pacific,” Pentagon spokesman Lt. Col. Christopher Logan of the Marine Corps said in a statement.
...

Perhaps you were snagged by the 18-month-long propaganda blast and intense gaslighting panic attack staged by the US to alarm the world with the news that Russia! Russia! Russia! and China and (god help us) Iran were engaged in a routine joint-military exercise for a few days. It's the end of the world as we know it.

I was not FUCKING GASIGHTING. Unlike yourself, I have backed up my statements with verifiable facts. China, Russia and now Iran are engaged in much more than "routine joint-miliatry excercises". It goes much, much deeper than that.

I will now take us back to our original conversation:

China and Russia Military Cooperation Raises Prospect of New Challenge to American Power
Joint military exercises and technology sharing are seen as tools in to limit U.S. might abroad
Jan. 2, 2022

Russian President Vladimir Putin and Chinese leader Xi Jinping oversaw an ambitious joint military exercise in China this summer, which along with reported collaborations in aviation, undersea and hypersonic-weapons technology point to a solidifying defense alignment, according to military analysts.

U.S. officials and military specialists say it is difficult to pin down the level of collaboration between two nations that tightly control information, and whose actions are increasingly opaque to outsiders. But Western officials and defense experts are growing more convinced of the closer relationship based on recent economic alliances, military exercises and joint defense development, as well as the few public statements from government leaders.

While U.S. officials have long been skeptical of a unified threat from the two countries, some are now changing their tune. The Office of the Director of National Intelligence reported that Beijing and Moscow are now more aligned than at any point in the past 60 years.
...

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs3bIHHIoXU]

Submitted by wokkamile on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 4:43pm

Perhaps so if

@Pluto's Republic CHina and the US have held joint exercises in the past, dunno about that. But that's the past. The trend of recent years, and since Obama's "pivot" to the Far East, has been the US increasingly interested in sticking its nose into China's sphere while China has not been oblivious to these provocative military maneuvers. Ditto obviously for the US engaging in provocative measures in Russia's sphere, esp Ukraine, which Putin has been patient about responding to.

Both Russia and China would find it mutually beneficial to have agreements and understandings in place so as to better leverage and deter US military shenanigans, without the financial burden of massive additional military spending. The two countries forces combined are easily a match for US power, probably exceeding it if Russia's doesn't already. So I'll take Door #2, where China backs Russia in any major military conflict with the US.

Submitted by QMS on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 9:13am

Good breakdown of the chess board war motives of the US

Playing under the cover of NATO expansion is not playing very well in Russian circles.
I'm not sure China will not be brought into this last gasp attempt of the US empire to
dominate the world. Guess we will see?

[video:https://youtu.be/rgc_LRjlbTU]

—

question everything

Submitted by usefewersyllables on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 12:39pm

My only thought is

“Make it quick”.

That is all.

—

Twice bitten, permanently shy.

Submitted by humphrey on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 1:35pm

I have no idea what the comment says but I think that

the brief video is appropriate.

Надо было Born in USA наложить pic.twitter.com/wDUwcX9j9s

— cuggxa (@cuggxa) January 22, 2022

Submitted by CB on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 1:41pm

The Russians added the following

@humphrey
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpSy0wfLcdw]

Submitted by NYCVG on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 6:50pm

Tragedy/Savagery has a face

@CB @CB These images in front of Bruce's anthem had me reaching for the tissue box one stanza in.

Just perfect, CB

—

NYCVG

Submitted by The Liberal Moonbat on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 6:27pm

THANK YOU!

@humphrey I literally LOL'd.

In all candor, I wish actually living in America felt anywhere close to that...chipper anymore.

I've lived through the miasma of jingoism, and now, the miasma of what I must call "anti-jingoism", and while both are monstrous, even the former doesn't drain everyone and everything of all hope, humor, and possibility the way the latter does.

—

In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.

Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!

Submitted by NYCVG on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 1:23pm

The War Drums Seem

to be beating louder everyday. There is no denying that.

So I admit that I am concerned about safety in Europe and here at home. A the same time, there are things irking me about the rhetoric and the assumptions that crop up regularly that stick in my craw.

For one thing, the "Russian troops massing along the Ukrainian border" line, leaves out that these Russian troops massing are on Russian soil facing missile installments aimed at and threatening Russia.

It leaves out the repeated betrayal of Original NATO promises not to move Eastward. Ukraine clearly has no connection to a North Atlantic Treaty. This is an attempted USA property encroachment, isn't it?

Another assumption that is absurd, is that the US/NATO alliance (if you can call it an alliance---NATO is US) will dictate and control whatever conflict ensues.

As if that is even slightly credible! Russia may have its own plan and it may not be one the US Military expects.

—

NYCVG

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 1:20pm

I don’t see Russia flooding countries that we consider hostil

@NYCVG

with weapons and troops. Imagine they did that in Venezuela or Cuba again.

The shipment - and $2.7 billion USD since 2014 - demonstrates U.S. commitment to helping Ukraine bolster its defenses in the face of growing Russian aggression. #partnershipstrong [2/2] pic.twitter.com/scPFWM3we7

— U.S. Embassy Kyiv (@USEmbassyKyiv) January 22, 2022

American ‘lethal aid’ arrives in Ukraine
The first shipment of military aid promised to Ukraine by US President Joe Biden amid Western speculation about a supposedly imminent “Russian invasion” of the country has been delivered to Kiev.

Late on Friday, the US Embassy in the Ukrainian capital posted photos on Twitter of large green-colored crates being unloaded from a cargo plane.

The crates held almost 100 tons of “lethal aid,” including ammunition intended for “the front line defenders of Ukraine,” it said. According to the embassy, the delivery was further proof of Washington’s “commitment to helping Ukraine bolster its defenses in the face of growing Russian aggression.”

Earlier this week, the US announced that it was expediting the transport of five Russian-made Mi-17 transport helicopters to Kiev. Bought from Moscow and intended for the previous, Western-backed, Afghan government, the choppers were diverted from Kabul due to the Taliban takeover since last August.

Russian helicopters and Russian military clothing sure could be used for a false flag to blame on Russia, but that might just be me being cynical.

However they have transferred a lot of weapons, tanks and missiles to Belarus for upcoming war games. We are sending lots of ships to areas closer to Russia than the US. We are also playing chicken in China’s backyard. But sure it’s Russia threatening countries everywhere. Check out the video in the article to see what they are sending.

Submitted by aliasalias on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 4:11pm

Russia is being blatantly threatened from many directions

@snoopydawg
"...Better the world live without NATO than die for its expansion. Because that is what NATO asks us to do. When the U.S. sends E-8 electronic warfare aircraft over Russia’s borders, as it did in December, they’re not there just to say hello. When NATO member Great Britain projects its HMS Defender two miles from the Crimean coast, causing warning shots from Russian coast guard patrol ships, as happened last June 23, this is no innocent, defensive maneuver. And when NATO’s supreme commander muses publicly about reinforcing NATO’s eastern flank on Romania and Bulgaria, only an idiot would conclude he’s not preparing for war.

Likewise, only a nitwit would swallow secretary of state Antony Blinken’s bigoted remark January 7 that “once the Russians are in your house, it’s sometimes very difficult to get them to leave.” This from a man whose nation’s military has lodged itself in Germany and Japan for 77 years and counting, occupied Afghanistan for 20 years and is still in Iraq after 19. Blinken has some nerve! But then, he can utter such mendacities in full confidence that he will never, NEVER be corrected in the American press.

It’s no wonder Russia demands written legal guarantees against NATO expansion and western nukes. It’s also no surprise that the U.S., caught in a lie, now claims that back in the early 1990s it never promised not to expand “one inch” east of Germany, as several officials in President George H.W. Bush’s administration told Gorbachev and others, in exchange for German reunification."
(all emphasis mine)
https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/01/21/an-abyss-of-human-wickedness-you...

Submitted by NYCVG on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 6:41pm

The Chutzpah

@aliasalias The GALL of the US Military.

The Hubris Of the Propaganda Industry.

The Lies. The theater of bullshit we are drowning in and blinded by.

Enough. Karma is not instatnt but surely, somewhere and sometime, there will be justice.

—

NYCVG

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 6:55pm

Yep this

@aliasalias

It’s no wonder Russia demands written legal guarantees against NATO expansion and western nukes.

Read the first article on the homepage that I linked to as well as the one Azazello posted. He thinks that Russia might have won already without firing a shot. One they might annex Donbas like they did Crimea and 2nd if our response to their demands about moving NATO out of 2 countries then our threats to Russia have been greatly lessened.

We and our allies insist that we have every right to play in the Black Sea and it’s no threat to Russia, but I’m sure we wouldn’t see it that way if Russia was playing outside the Gulf of Mexico. It’s a deliberate threat.

One of Russia’s top spokesperson basically called Blinken stupid to his face when he said that it’s hard to get Russia out of your house. It was one of the most stupidest things I’ve heard because how many countries are our troops in after WW2 and elsewhere? Iraq has been asking us to leave their country for over a year and yet we’re still squatting in it.

Read some of the responses to Blinken’s tweet that Humphrey posted. I just smh.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 7:23pm

From the article

@aliasalias

How do we know the summit teeters on the rim of failure? Because the January 19 Svobodnaya Pressa announced that Moscow has begun deploying the high-precision long-range operational and tactical missile system 9K720 Iskander-M in Crimea. The flight-range of these missiles is up to 3.5 thousand kilometers. They can hit any European capital and “even American aircraft carriers in the Mediterranean Sea, Arleigh Burke destroyers, Ticonderoga-class missile cruisers.” Iskanders can be launched simultaneously in a 200-missile barrage. The article is headlined, “Moscow’s Patience Snapped: Crimea Deploys Iskanders.” Blinken jets to Geneva this weekend. Hopefully this news about Russian weaponry will elicit all his diplomatic skills in his confab with Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov. The situation is dire.

Ouch. This ought to get Europe’s attention to tell Biden and Blinken’s mouth to shut the fck up and do it now. On top of that Russia is moving deadly equipment into Belarus too. See the video in the article I linked. Barlow says that Russia can inflict a no fly zone if countries don’t stop flying weapons and troops into Ukraine PDQ.

Submitted by humphrey on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 1:33pm

A few random but related things I came across.

FM #Lavrov: It cannot be ruled out that all that hysteria which our Western colleagues whip up is aimed, as a minimum, at covering Kiev regime’s line to completely sabotage #MinskAgreements, if not at provoking Ukraine’s military activities in Donbass. I see no other explanation pic.twitter.com/8o813Q69yu

— Russia in RSA (@EmbassyofRussia) January 22, 2022

Germany Blocks NATO Partners From Supplying Its Weapons To Ukraine https://t.co/kPJhYHwf9J

— zerohedge (@zerohedge) January 21, 2022

Blinken is a madman!

I expedited and authorized and we fully endorse transfers of defensive equipment @NATO Allies are providing to Ukraine to strengthen its ability to defend itself against Russia’s unprovoked and irresponsible aggression. https://t.co/wFOLv0Wi2V

— Secretary Antony Blinken (@SecBlinken) January 22, 2022

American “lethal aid” to Ukraine will be lethal only to those poorly trained Ukrainian soldiers who attempt to employ it in combat. This is for domestic American consumption only, and it’s sad that so many Americans are falling for it.

— Scott Ritter (@RealScottRitter) January 22, 2022

Submitted by NYCVG on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 6:44pm

Germany's Action!

@humphrey Is this a crack in the wall we can welcome and hope that it holds?

I think so. But definitely not a NATO expert, so what I think doesn't count for much.

—

NYCVG

Submitted by Azazello on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 1:51pm

Gilbert Doctorow

This guy seems like a pretty good source.
Here are a couple of his recent posts:
Russian elites talk WAR: ‘Evening with Vladimir Solovyov,’ 16 January 2022
Anthony Blinken and the intellectual bankruptcy of the Biden Administration

—

We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 1:58pm

Thanks for linking him

@Azazello

I think he’s has some great insights on the insanity of taking on Russia. I’ll try to find the 1st article I read on his site that blew me out. People should take a look at his site.

Actually the 1st link goes to it. A great read.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 4:32pm

It’s looking like checkmate for Russia

First article on his website.

https://gilbertdoctorow.com/

I’ll take checkmate over full blown war any day. Who’d have thought that it would be Russia bringing sanity to US foreign policy? For gawd’s sake we are playing in Russia’s backyard where they have the advantage over anyone trying to cause trouble.
Germany and France are trying to bring some sanity into the situation too. That we and the UK are still flying in weapons after Russia gave their ultimatum is arrogant beyond measure. Russia will institute a no fly zone if they keep it up.

Submitted by humphrey on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 4:52pm

Could this be the ulterior motive behind US actions?

You rarely see this mentioned in the mainstream corporate media's analysis of the conflict in Ukraine, but it's a very important factor:

US/EU hawks claim Russia is a dastardly aggressor to pressure Europe to cut its energy imports from Russia, and instead import gas from the US https://t.co/xH8WsjEZFc pic.twitter.com/8lyg9qF8Zf

— Benjamin Norton (@BenjaminNorton) January 22, 2022

And also keeping the MIC busy profiting from this.

Submitted by CB on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 6:04pm

Germany would have to build 3 new

@humphrey
ports to regasify the US LNG. One the backers has already stepped down.

German Gas Terminal Faces Headwinds as Major Investor Steps Back
December 30, 2021
...
One major stumbling block in the terminal’s progress is a requirement for 10% of its capacity to be reserved for short-term access, according to the person, who asked not to be identified because the information is private. The obligation was imposed by the German regulator in order to provide tariff exemptions, the person said.

LNG terminal developers typically aim to book all the space in the terminal under long-term contracts to ensure stable proceeds for investors.

Environmental permits are also taking longer than expected, making the start of the project unlikely before 2025, the person said.
...

Another factor is US LNG would preclude Germany reaching is their goal of attaining truly "green" energy neutrality by 2050. Russia intends to use Nordstream II to supply Germany with "green" hydrogen in the mix by 2030.

Meanwhile Russia has signed a deal for a new pipeline to China that will be sourced from the same fields as Nordstream II gets it's gas.

Submitted by ggersh on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 5:01pm

I think that during the Olympics it will all begin

https://www.siliconinvestor.com/readmsg.aspx?msgid=33672468

ameriKKKa/Ukraine/Nato/EU will go to war against Russia
come the Olympics....rhymes with Georgia during Socchi.

paulcraigroberts.org

zerohedge.com

thetyee.ca

EDIT:Adding Caitlin to the mix

https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2022/01/22/lunatic-pundit-says-its-all-but-...

"I think we're basically just on the cusp of war. I think it's all but certain in my mind that there's going to be a large European war... My concern now is making sure that the U.S. is postured for that outcome... The ball is in Putin's court" - @AVindman w/ @NicolleDWallace pic.twitter.com/QXiGv4B9as

— Deadline White House (@DeadlineWH) January 22, 2022

—

I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish

"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"

Heard from Margaret Kimberley

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 9:47pm

From MoA

@ggersh

Russia also moved some of its army brigades and airforce elements from eastern Siberia to Belarus where they will take part in exercises until February 20. This will complicate any plans Kiev might have for attacks on Donbass while Putin is in Beijing to watch the Olympics. The military authorities in Donbass today reported of new signs for such a move under the pretext of a false flag event (video - click CC for English translations).

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnrP8XNKIKM]

The guy is talking about all the weapons that have been given to the Ukraine army and he’s seeing lots of activities in the Donbas region from the Ukraine army and he too is thinking that there will be a false flag attack on the region soon. It’s what I’ve been thinking since Blinken’s mouth started warning us about Russia doing one so it can invade. And again we are telling families in the Ukraine embassy to evacuate. Psakiopath has said that Russia has moved people out of their embassy too, but Russia says it’s not for nefarious reasons. Time will tell. Soon.

Submitted by zed2 on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 5:28pm

What will the price be?

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ROfo5QDBKA&list=PL-Pey2PiRQaHRet2C81ULk...

Submitted by zed2 on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 7:58pm

The people who want wars should be allowed to fight each other

in an arena. Bare handed, Since they believe might makes right. let them fight it out with each other man to man.

America is being manipulated. We can't be drawn into a war by the militaristic goon squads of extremists, as in the past, nor are these kinds of agendas okay.

Making aggressive war is the crime the Nazis committed.

Submitted by janis b on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 8:47pm

I agree with this

@zed2

"The people who want to fight wars should be allowed to fight each other”

Let them decide the terms as long as they finance and conduct it themselves, removed from the rest of humanity.

Submitted by zed2 on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 8:13pm

Most of the people I know couldnt give a fuck about Putin.

Or Ukraine. Militantly so. They dont want to listen to it. The people who are pushing wars should move to another country where others share their agenda, wherever that is. I wish certain people would go away. I wish neocons and war criminals and their ilk should bow out of public life, because they are not trying to evolve and don't deserve our ears.

Lets wake up

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 8:26pm

Twit still acting like a tuff guy and making crap up

Important discussion with Canadian Foreign Minister @melaniejoly about Russia’s unprovoked military buildup on Ukraine’s borders. We remain committed to diplomacy but are ready, in coordination with @NATO Allies and partners, to impose severe costs for further Russian aggression.

— Secretary Antony Blinken (@SecBlinken) January 22, 2022

Go Brandon yourself Tony!

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 8:52pm

More fear mongering

Fox News' Pentagon correspondent is reporting early Saturday that all family members of US embassy personnel in Kiev, Ukraine have been ordered to evacuate. "State Department orders families of U.S. embassy personnel in Ukraine to begin evacuating the country as soon as Monday: U.S. officials," Fox's Lucas Tomlinson reports.

It first emerged Friday that the Biden administration was mulling a plan to evacuate diplomats' family members from Ukraine as a "precautionary measure" amid the continued crisis wherein Washington has predicted some level of a Russian offensive on the Ukraine border.

It’s the 21st century and humans are still more devoted to killing others than finding ways to cut emissions, slow climate change and divert human extinction.Power corrupts absolutely, but bottom line, men are flawed because they don’t give birth so they are not connected to life

— Amazon Queen / Kym Trippsmith (@AmazonKym) January 22, 2022

Interesting 2nd tweet.

lol!

I’ve yet to see anyone wearing a Build Back Better hat.

— Chad Prather (@WatchChad) January 22, 2022

Submitted by janis b on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 9:02pm

Fear mongering for sure

@snoopydawg

Hopefully it is confined to fear mongering, even though that alone is destructive enough.

Submitted by MrWebster on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 8:56pm

Putin can stop war by doing what he planned.

Putin planned not to invade Ukraine. Maybe some thoughts given to air power to decimate the Ukrainian army if they tried to take over the break away republics. So what will the war mongers do if Putin does not invade. Some pundits are claiming that Blinken and company were told very clearly that the sanctions they want to impose would be the ruin of Europe and eventually the US. Hopefully the Germans told the Ukrainians they would totally abandon them if they attacked Donbass, Crimea, etc.

I am still baffled as to why the warmonger neocons started up beating the war drums right now. It has been going on for a while now in major outlets, and seems to have gotten shriller and shriller. When the invasion never comes, I would be Biden would take credit for it by being tough on Putin.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 9:09pm

I think what’s happening now is why we went

@MrWebster

through 5 years of Russia Russia Russia. It accomplished 3 main things.

1- it was the start of censorship.
2- it setup Assange to be extradited because shitlibs blame him for HerHeinous losing to Trump.
3- shitlibs believe everything bad about Putin and Russia therefore it manufactured consent for war.

Impeaching Trump for not sending weapons to Ukraine was also a way to manufacture consent for war, whilst keeping people from knowing that democrats have been up to their eyeballs in corruption in Ukraine and making tons of money off their dastardly dealings there. And who knows if the truth about democrats okay republicans too are supporting Nazis there people might not think that they are as bad as they have been told. Can’t figure that one out, but they don’t believe that we are doing that.

As I wrote above, Putin has a few ways to win what he wants without firing a shot. What he wants is for NATO to stop expanding and for it to go back to where it was in 1997. Blinken says that he will give Russia our response soon. Russia will go from there. Choose wisely, Tony.

Submitted by zed2 on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 9:19pm

A great many Americns are struggling keeping their houses warm

Imagine how many American retirees will freeze when the price of natural gas for heating doubles or triples.

Oh, our leaders are so generous.;. to other countries..

With our jobs too. They just cant wait to trade the jobs away.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 9:21pm

Moon of Alabama

MoA

In a recent interview Sergej Karaganov, who heads the Russian Council on Foreign and Defense Policy, explained why invading the Ukraine is very dumb idea:

[O]f course, we absolutely do not need to fight for Ukraine to the last Ukrainian, we certainly do not want to fight there. All this squealing about the fact that we are going to capture Kiev, it is about nothing. Yes, our military is standing at the Ukrainian border, but only so that on the other side it does not occur to anyone to break into the Donbass. And the capture of Ukraine in our military plans, I'm sure, is not included. If only for the reason that capturing a country that is castrated economically, morally and intellectually, a country with a destroyed infrastructure and an embittered population is the worst-case scenario. The worst thing America can do for us is to give us Ukraine in the form they brought it to.

So is that what Biden and Blinken are trying to do? Give the Ukraine to Russia to create more problems for it? No, I don't think they are smart enough to strategize that far.

Russia is not at all concerned about the Ukraine. It is concerned about NATO in Ukraine. This is not only about the Ukraine becoming a NATO member. The chances of that are low. But it is about NATO and the U.S. determining Ukrainian policies, sending 'trainers' and weapon systems and enticing fascist to attack Russia.

What NATOstan sent to 404:

Empire: Javelins + $300 million.
Turkey - Bayraktar drones.
Brits - NLAW complexes.
Baltics - MANPADS.
Czechs - artillery shells.
Canada - SWAT + frigate.

Wait and see what happens when Russia launches the first Iskander.

— Pepe Escobar (@RealPepeEscobar) January 21, 2022

As always don’t forget to read the comments. Lots of smart people there.

Weird how there’s never any discussion on how congress will pay for all of its foreign aid huh?

Submitted by zed2 on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 9:26pm

Nobody falls for that.

Only idiots blame Assange for anything. Its clear as day Wikileaks provided a public service that exposed US activities around the world to promote dictatorships and fascism.

We deceive our people with bulshit and the wikileaks info exposed things like drone murders of innocent people - civilians and children. Thats why they want to kill him, he exposed activities that were criminal and the crooks simply dont want to be brought to trial for their crimes, the horiffic things they have done.

And are trying to do, in the case of TISA, which hijacks democracy.

Nothing is clearer...

http://web.archive.org/*?http://policyspace.xyz/glossary/tisa

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 10:33pm

This is funny

From the state department.

Russia’s Top Five Persistent Disinformation Narratives

Over many years, Russia has fabricated a set of false narratives that its disinformation and propaganda ecosystem persistently injects into the global information environment. These narratives act like a template, which enables the Kremlin to adjust these narratives, with one consistency – a complete disregard for truth as it shapes the information environment to support its policy goals.

Russian military and intelligence entities are engaging in this activity across Russia’s disinformation and propaganda ecosystem, to include malign social media operations, the use of overt and covert online proxy media outlets, the injection of disinformation into television and radio programming, the hosting of conferences designed to influence attendees into falsely believing that Ukraine, not Russia, is at fault for heightened tensions in the region, and the leveraging of cyber operations to deface media outlets and conduct hack and release operations.

Here are five major reoccurring Russian disinformation themes that the Kremlin is currently readjusting in an attempt to fill the information environment with false narratives about its actions in Ukraine.

Theme #1: “Russia is an Innocent Victim”

Russian government officials falsely portray Russia as a perpetual victim and its aggressive actions as a forced response to the alleged actions of the United States and our democratic allies and partners. To further these claims, Russia turns to one of its favorite labels to attempt to hit back: “Russophobia.” After invading Ukraine in 2014, the Russian government and state-controlled disinformation outlets began to accuse anyone who questioned Russia’s actions of being xenophobic Russophobes.

For example, Russia claims that the international community’s negative reaction to its invasion of an independent country was simply because people feared and hated Russia. According to the chart below, Russophobia was not an issue of major concern to the Russian Foreign Ministry or state-funded disinformation outlets until the Russian military invaded Ukraine. Claims of “Russophobia” persist across a range of topics and are employed whenever the Russian government wants to play the victim, when it is actually the aggressor.

Theme #4: “Popular Movements are U.S.-sponsored ‘Color Revolutions’”

The Kremlin has difficulty accepting that all individuals should have the human right to freedom of expression, and that the government should be accountable to its people. Russia has accused the United States of either instigating uprisings or plotting “color revolutions” in Georgia, Kazakhstan, the Kyrgyz Republic, Moldova, Ukraine, and throughout the Middle East and Africa. If a popular movement is pro-democracy and pro-reform and not deemed to be in Russia’s geopolitical interests, the Kremlin will often attack its legitimacy and claim that the United States is secretly behind it.

Theme #5: Reality is Whatever the Kremlin Wants It to Be

It was clear to the world, for example, that Russia attempted to assassinate former Russian military intelligence officer Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia with the nerve agent Novichok in Salisbury, England, on March 4, 2018. In the four weeks following that incident, Russian state-funded and directed outlets RT and Sputnik disseminated 138 separate and contradictory narratives via 735 articles, according to the Policy Institute at King’s College London.

Russia has used the same technique of flooding the information space with many false claims following other events, such as the downing of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17, and Russia’s 2008 invasion and ongoing occupation of Georgia, to distract conversations from their role in the events. Again, the purpose is to confuse and distract others and manipulate the truth to suit Kremlin interests.

I’m not naive enough to believe that Russia doesn’t do bad things, but I can see when we are accusing them of doing things that we say they do where they are right about them.

If Obama hadn’t overthrown Ukraine’s president in one of our color revolutions. I doubt Russia would have moved into Crimea to stop us from taking over the navy base there. The people there wouldn’t have voted to be Russian citizens in a vote that was overseen by people who oversee elections.

It sure seemed that we actually have done quite a few other color revolutions such as in the countries mentioned here.

I d sure like to know where the Skripals are these days after recovering from Novichok poisoning which is as you know thee most deadliest nerve agent ever made. It also seems that Navalny has recovered from his Novichok poisoning quite well too.

I don’t know what was found in the trial for the downing of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17, but since most of the information came from Bellingcat I’m thinking that they weren’t responsible for shooting down a plane full of scientists who worked on AIDS and were flying to a conference on it. Their plane was shot down after being diverted through Ukraine airspace that had diverted most other flights.

I also wonder if Blinken has heard of Voice of America or that Obama canceled the Smith-Mundt act that kept the government from using propaganda on us?

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 01/22/2022 - 10:37pm

Lavrov got a chuckle out of it

@snoopydawg

Lavrov was not amused about either:

The Russian foreign ministry mocked those statements, saying they must have been prepared by an Orwellian “Ministry of Truth,” and Lavrov caustically dismissed them in his remarks to Blinken, saying he hoped the State Department had also spent time drafting responses to Russia’s demands.

“I do hope that not everyone in the State Department was working on those materials and there were some who were working on the essence of our proposals and their substance,” he said.

From the state department.

Russia’s Top Five Persistent Disinformation Narratives

Over many years, Russia has fabricated a set of false narratives that its disinformation and propaganda ecosystem persistently injects into the global information environment. These narratives act like a template, which enables the Kremlin to adjust these narratives, with one consistency – a complete disregard for truth as it shapes the information environment to support its policy goals.

Russian military and intelligence entities are engaging in this activity across Russia’s disinformation and propaganda ecosystem, to include malign social media operations, the use of overt and covert online proxy media outlets, the injection of disinformation into television and radio programming, the hosting of conferences designed to influence attendees into falsely believing that Ukraine, not Russia, is at fault for heightened tensions in the region, and the leveraging of cyber operations to deface media outlets and conduct hack and release operations.

Here are five major reoccurring Russian disinformation themes that the Kremlin is currently readjusting in an attempt to fill the information environment with false narratives about its actions in Ukraine.

Theme #1: “Russia is an Innocent Victim”

Russian government officials falsely portray Russia as a perpetual victim and its aggressive actions as a forced response to the alleged actions of the United States and our democratic allies and partners. To further these claims, Russia turns to one of its favorite labels to attempt to hit back: “Russophobia.” After invading Ukraine in 2014, the Russian government and state-controlled disinformation outlets began to accuse anyone who questioned Russia’s actions of being xenophobic Russophobes.

For example, Russia claims that the international community’s negative reaction to its invasion of an independent country was simply because people feared and hated Russia. According to the chart below, Russophobia was not an issue of major concern to the Russian Foreign Ministry or state-funded disinformation outlets until the Russian military invaded Ukraine. Claims of “Russophobia” persist across a range of topics and are employed whenever the Russian government wants to play the victim, when it is actually the aggressor.

Theme #4: “Popular Movements are U.S.-sponsored ‘Color Revolutions’”

The Kremlin has difficulty accepting that all individuals should have the human right to freedom of expression, and that the government should be accountable to its people. Russia has accused the United States of either instigating uprisings or plotting “color revolutions” in Georgia, Kazakhstan, the Kyrgyz Republic, Moldova, Ukraine, and throughout the Middle East and Africa. If a popular movement is pro-democracy and pro-reform and not deemed to be in Russia’s geopolitical interests, the Kremlin will often attack its legitimacy and claim that the United States is secretly behind it.

Theme #5: Reality is Whatever the Kremlin Wants It to Be

It was clear to the world, for example, that Russia attempted to assassinate former Russian military intelligence officer Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia with the nerve agent Novichok in Salisbury, England, on March 4, 2018. In the four weeks following that incident, Russian state-funded and directed outlets RT and Sputnik disseminated 138 separate and contradictory narratives via 735 articles, according to the Policy Institute at King’s College London.

Russia has used the same technique of flooding the information space with many false claims following other events, such as the downing of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17, and Russia’s 2008 invasion and ongoing occupation of Georgia, to distract conversations from their role in the events. Again, the purpose is to confuse and distract others and manipulate the truth to suit Kremlin interests.

I’m not naive enough to believe that Russia doesn’t do bad things, but I can see when we are accusing them of doing things that we say they do where they are right about them.

If Obama hadn’t overthrown Ukraine’s president in one of our color revolutions. I doubt Russia would have moved into Crimea to stop us from taking over the navy base there. The people there wouldn’t have voted to be Russian citizens in a vote that was overseen by people who oversee elections.

It sure seemed that we actually have done quite a few other color revolutions such as in the countries mentioned here.

I d sure like to know where the Skripals are these days after recovering from Novichok poisoning which is as you know thee most deadliest nerve agent ever made. It also seems that Navalny has recovered from his Novichok poisoning quite well too.

I don’t know what was found in the trial for the downing of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17, but since most of the information came from Bellingcat I’m thinking that they weren’t responsible for shooting down a plane full of scientists who worked on AIDS and were flying to a conference on it. Their plane was shot down after being diverted through Ukraine airspace that had diverted most other flights.

I also wonder if Blinken has heard of Voice of America or that Obama canceled the Smith-Mundt act that kept the government from using propaganda on us?

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sun, 01/23/2022 - 12:17am

Thanks everyone for the great discussion

Let’s hope that brain makes the right decision and stops escalating tensions with Russia. The alternative is too horrifying to consider.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sun, 01/23/2022 - 12:57am

This is a good point

People are raising the question as why as soon as Biden came back into power the situation erupted again in Ukraine. The problem is that these questions are coming from people on the left who should already know that Biden was ultimate decision-maker in coup of 2014!

— Ajamu Baraka (@ajamubaraka) January 22, 2022

Why did Obiden decide to overthrow Ukraine’s president in the first place?

Submitted by on the cusp on Sun, 01/23/2022 - 2:00am