The Dose - 10-22-21
An open thread for gentle discussions of all things Covid.
Hey! Good Evening!
French study of over 22m people finds vaccines cut severe Covid risk by 90%
Vaccination reduces the risk of dying or being hospitalised with Covid-19 by 90%, a French study of 22.6 million people over the age of 50 has found.
The research published on Monday also found that vaccines appear to protect against the worst effects of the most prevalent virus strain, the Delta variant.
“This means that those who are vaccinated are nine times less at risk of being hospitalised or dying from Covid-19 than those who have not been vaccinated,” the epidemiologist Mahmoud Zureik, who oversaw the research, told Agence France-Presse.
The study – the largest of its kind so far – was carried out by Epi-Phare a scientific group set up by France’s health system, its national health insurance fund, l’Assurance Maladie (CNAM), and the country’s ANSM medicines agency.
Researchers compared 11.3 million vaccinated over-50s with the same number of unvaccinated from the same age group between 27 December 2020, when vaccinations began in France, and 20 July this year.
They found “a reduction in the risk of hospitalisation superior to 90%” from the 14th day after the second dose and a similar reduction in the number of deaths from Covid-19. Similar findings have previously been published in Israel, the UK and the US.
Without Covid-19 jab, ‘reinfection may occur every 16 months’
As Covid-19 infections surge in England, people are increasingly reporting catching Sars-CoV-2 for a second or even third time. New analysis has suggested that unvaccinated individuals should expect to be reinfected with Covid-19 every 16 months, on average.
With winter approaching, scientists are warning that such reinfections could add to the burden on the NHS, some calling for the vaccination programme to be extended to all schoolchildren, including two doses for teenagers.
“If you’ve got high-level prevalence, and frequent exposure to the virus, as you have in schools, you are going to see more and more people getting reinfected despite having been double vaccinated,” said Stephen Griffin, associate professor of virology at the University of Leeds.
This time last year, the assumption was that although reinfections could occur this was relatively uncommon, with only two dozen or so recorded worldwide.
We now know that natural immunity to Sars-CoV-2 begins to dwindle over time. One Danish study suggested that the under-65s had about 80% protection for at least six months, while the over-65s had only 47% protection.
Is Southwest Airlines Vax Mandate Behind Cancellations?
Mothers sue after children catch Covid at Wisconsin schools with no mandates
Two Wisconsin mothers whose children had Covid-19 in September have sued their school districts, for “needlessly and recklessly endangering the health and safety” of their children and other students. Both lawsuits accuse the school districts of creating a “snake pit” for students by not implementing Covid-19 safety measures recommended by health officials, such as indoor masking, at their schools this year.
The suits say the Falls Creek school district and school board and Waukesha school district and school board “are aware that by removing their Covid-19 mitigation measures they are needlessly and recklessly endangering the health and safety of their students”.
Gina Kildahl filed on Monday in Wisconsin’s western district court after her child, a Falls Creek district elementary school student, tested positive for Covid-19 in late September. The complaint said the school board voted against a mask requirement for the 2021-22 school year and that people are allowed to visit the district without masks or being screened or tested for Covid-19.
While Kildahl’s child wore a mask to school each day, according to the complaint, many other students did not. In late September, there was an outbreak in her child’s class and the child tested positive. The complaint alleges that the district and school board’s refusal to implement Covid-19 mitigation measures was the cause of the child’s infection and illness.
The other lawsuit was filed by Shannon Jensen in Wisconsin’s eastern district court last week. It describes a similar situation in Waukesha.
Joe Rogan GRILLS CNN's Sanjay Gupta On Horse Dewormer Lies | Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
Vaccine hesitant New Yorkers consider leaving the city as mandates take effect
Deysia Padilla’s family thought she was at work. Instead, she spent last Thursday afternoon unloading a mound of orange and pink baby socks in a sunny South Bronx laundromat – one-by one, in all their three-inch glory. She had 48 hours to consider an impossible choice: either get vaccinated or lose her job.
Padilla is one of thousands of unvaccinated New Yorkers affected by Mayor Bill de Blasio’s ultimatum last week. Not only do city employees face the reality of losing their jobs, but without a shot, they’ll even forgo unemployment payments. Some unvaccinated Bronx natives would rather pursue a life outside New York City than be forced to take the vaccine.
“I feel like my dream is being shattered by the government,” said Padilla. “I’m being taken out of my home.” The 25-year-old mother had plans to become an art teacher one day. Now, she’s considering moving to Florida with her husband and three-month-old baby.
A pandemic-induced population shift to Florida – sometimes called the city’s sixth borough – is already under way. As of March, more than 33,500 New Yorkers permanently relocated to Florida – up 32% from the same period in the previous year. Experts say people flocked south for looser Covid restrictions, affordable housing, and access to in-person schools. ...
As some Bronx natives consider moving out-of-state to avoid the shot, community leaders question the long-term effects of vaccine mandates on community trust. “Overusing heavy-handed mandates that threaten people’s livelihoods is seen as cruel,” said Tom Sheppard, who serves on the city’s elected Community Education Council and is co-founder of Bronx Parent Leaders Advocacy Group, in a tweet. “You may even mean well, but doing it this way erodes trust instead of building it.”
Covid-19: Brazil probe to seek criminal charges against Bolsonaro
Brazil's Bolsonaro to face charge of 'intentional' crimes over Covid-19 response
Texas governor bars vaccine mandates in state as deaths approach 70,000
The Texas governor, Greg Abbott, issued an executive order Monday to prohibit any entity, including private business, from enforcing a Covid-19 vaccine mandate on workers and called on state lawmakers to pass a similar ban into law.
The move comes as the Biden administration is to issue rules requiring employers with more than 100 workers to be vaccinated or test weekly for the coronavirus. Several major companies, including Texas-based American Airlines and Southwest Airlines, have said they would abide by the federal mandate.
“No entity in Texas can compel receipt of a Covid-19 vaccine by any individual, including an employee or a consumer, who objects to such vaccination for any reason of personal conscience, based on a religious belief, or for medical reasons, including prior recovery from Covid-19,” Abbott wrote in his order.
Russia’s population undergoes largest ever peacetime decline, analysis shows
Russia’s natural population has undergone its largest peacetime decline in recorded history over the last 12 months, according to an analysis of official government statistics made by a prominent independent demographer, as the country battles a deadly fourth wave of the Covid-19 pandemic.
The natural population, a number calculated from registered deaths and births, excluding the impact of migration, declined by 997,000 between October 2020 and September 2021, the demographer Alexei Raksha has calculated.
Russia has been one of the countries hit hardest by the pandemic, registering at least 660,000 excess deaths since the start of 2020, according to government data, and the dramatic drop appears to show the devastating toll the pandemic has had on the country’s social fabric.
Previous government reports showed Russia’s population decline in 2020 was 11 times greater than that of the pre-pandemic 2019.
In-N-Out closes in San Francisco over refusal to enforce vaccine mandate
In-N-Out burger has become the first restaurant in San Francisco to be temporarily closed for failing to enforce the city’s vaccine mandate. City officials made the move on 14 October after the burger chain said it won’t force staff to check that customers were fully vaccinated before allowing them to dine inside the restaurant.
Restaurants in San Francisco, as well as a number of US cities including New York and New Orleans, are legally required to make customers show proof of vaccination before dining indoors. Health officials in the city, who have been carrying out checks on restaurants, say they made numerous requests to In-N-Out to enforce these checks but have not seen improvement after weeks of spot checks.
This failure to comply led to the city’s department of public health (SFDPH) closing San Francisco’s only In-N-Out location, in Fisherman’s Wharf, a waterfront tourist market. The restaurant has since reopened for takeout but is still not able to offer indoor dining. SFDPH’s official Twitter account joked that restaurants might want to consider the name In-N-Outside.
Comments
good morning folks...
heh, hopefully this will post as i peacefully slumber, i am not a 7am sort of guy.
have a great day and i'll catch up with you in a while.
Morning all
Some early morning maniac music ..
Gets the old heart pumping ~~~ can you feel it?
Hoping the day brings us good things
question everything
It's wishful thinking
to think that mask mandates alone will protect our kids in school.
That guardian article about the mom's suing the Wisconsin school district for a lack of a mask mandate is just another example of corporate media stirring up arguments and bogus conflicts between people who should be on the same side. Once again, classmates against classmates, parents against parents.
We know how to protect the kids from contracting and spreading this virus. Or at least we know how to decrease the chances contracting the virus and minimizing that risk as much as possible. But we are not minimizing that risk in any way. Do people really think that the flimsy masks we send these kids to school with, that are ill-fitted, with multiple gaps, and made from material that doesn't even screen out particles that are the size of this aerosolized virus help at all? I don't see how these masks could possibly be effective.
Do the kids wear them all the time? Never take them off? These are kids remember.
If you want to see what happens to people who wear the correct type of mask, tightly fitted, with no gaps, made out of material that will screen out this virus; look at health care workers who wear them day after day for long shifts. (School children also have long shifts at school, day after day.) These health care workers have sore areas and raw spots on areas of their faces and heads from the constant friction. The right mask is very uncomfortable , even painful to wear for extended periods of time. The kids are most definitely not wearing the masks like they should be if they actually expect protection from them.
I just think the mask mandates for children is pure nonsense. I would change my mind if all school children were fitted properly (as are some health care workers) with n95 masks. Otherwise, the whole enterprise just seems bogus.
It is pure nonsense
How long are the kids keeping their masks off when they eat? If they are so vulnerable to getting infected then any time with masks on gets nullified when they take them off. I think the same thing about flying with masks on, but they can come off while eating and drinking for however long it takes. Some people say they nurse their drink for as long as the flight.
And you’re right. Masks that off the best protection are very uncomfortable and the surgical ones will not do much over long periods. Someone recently posted about this. Was it you?
Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.
I think
, it is nonsense. I hope I'm wrong and I hope kids are protected with those flimsy masks because I know people are never going to seriously address all the other measures that offer much more protection. Where I live, mask mandates are a big confrontational emotional issue. I won't engage in that argument with people in my area, because I think it's the wrong argument. I would much rather discuss and debate mitigation measures that have a better chance of being effective.
The focus should be on filtering the air
With the simple box fan / furnace filters. It is a proven way to reduce airborne dust / particulate / and vapors. This should be the direction of preventing the spread of germs. How many schools are doing this? Once winter hits, the option of keeping windows open will become null.
Where is common sense in all of this?
question everything
I agree
. I admired the illustration of the DIY fan you posted the other day. I wonder if we could compile a thread that lists all those great ideas so they could be easily referenced here.
I found this interview interesting...
Kyle's vaccine experience
Pericarditis after vaccination, possible inadvertent intravenous administration.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7inaTiDKaU]
https://www.react19.org/
It is NOT antivax to discuss adverse reactions to vaccination...a very real experience for many (we don't really know how many) people. I'm glad I had no adverse effects.
Sounds very much as if Kyle second injection was in a vein instead of his muscle. Still no recommendation for aspirating vaccine injection to prevent inadvertent blood vessel injections.
https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciab707/635...
https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/incorrect-vaccine-administration-...
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.29.450356v1
It isn't about health, but seemingly selling more vaccines. The idea of vaccinating children seems truly reckless to me. Perhaps if the child is morbidly obese? But the number of children who become symptomatic is infinitesimal.
https://theconversation.com/covid-long-lasting-symptoms-rarer-in-childre...
As a result...
UK panel does not recommend COVID vaccines for healthy 12- to 15-year-olds
In the US they want to vaccinate 5 year olds? It is clear this is not about health nor protection.
The White House has announced a plan to ensure adequate doses of the Pfizer vaccine for 28 million children aged 5-11, pending FDA approval of the vaccination.
Thanks for The Dose!
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Vaccine mandates
for young people seem like such a bad idea.
https://noqreport.com/2021/06/15/19-year-old-college-freshman-dies-from-...
I suspect...
more harm than benefit to vaccinating children. As I said earlier, I find it reckless and irresponsible...just out right greedy. And for those that think I'm too extreme in my criticism let me remind you they had no problem using oxycontin to create addicts all across America with no qualms whatsoever...and in fact are now immune from further suits.
The Sacklers, Who Made Billions From OxyContin, Win Immunity From Opioid Lawsuits
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
World Gone Mad
Bill Bramhall’s editorial cartoon for Oct. 22, 2021.
"We have always had Vaccine Mandates in Eastasia"
Slapped together in 8 months. Not given long trials for safety and effectiveness. Needing endless boosters. DENYING Work and Pay for the non-compliant.
We are entirely submerged in an alternate universe now.
Orwell saw it coming.
We are observing its full flowering supported by the neo Democrats, INCLUDING former Progresives.
NYCVG
Giving Swiss cheese a bad name
All of Canada’s federal employees must be vaccinated…but there are enough holes in it to give Swiss cheese..
Trudeau joined the Pelosi, Newsom et all hoi poloti doing the exact opposite of what they tell the rubes to do. No traveling during lockdown except he made a mistake that he regrets and did it anyway. Oops huh?
In case you haven’t seen this article yet it talks about what Britain has found in the vaxxed. The info is on page 23 linked in article. It’s over my head but here is another site that dumbs it down some. Lots of info and links in comments that might be helpful.
WotB also has a discussion on it yesterday.. I don’t know if anyone else feels the same way, but I have long gotten tired of seeing people getting vaccinated in just about every damn article on Covid. I used to draw blood and often when it was a hard patient instead of resticking we’d have someone else try to find the vein. The minute I wasn’t doing it I got nauseous if I watched someone else poke and prod. I’ve probably seen thousands of pictures of this since it started and it’s driving me beyond nuts and turns my stomach. Enough!
And here’s another video discussing the possibility.
https://thehighwire.com/videos/a-coming-covid-catastrophe/
I’m with Joe. Mornings aren’t my thing, but I’m watching the morning bloom with the sun and the full moon sharing the sky. Things I miss sleeping in.
Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.
Hope
, you're ok. Sorry you're up when you don't want to be. That's not good.
Thanks for all the links. I'm so short on time and so behind everyone here all the time, but I'm reading what I can.
I'm not sure what a "gentle" discussion of Covid is
compared to a regular discussion of any political or social issue, but here are some of my recent observations. I won't post links because I seem to often pick the "wrong" ones.
First, I have 3 granddaughters, two 8 year olds and one 3 year old. Two are in Wisconsin and one in Montana. The 8 year olds go to public schools and the 3 year old to a university run daycare. They all wear masks every day and have no issues with it. In fact, ordering new masks online is a fun activity for them. Yes, even the 3 year old keeps hers on. So far this year their schools have had a very low Covid case rates. When a case pops up, the class goes home for a week. One granddaughter tested positive about month ago, so the class was sent home. The next day she tested negative, so the class came back. So much for testing.
If you google the stats on schools that mask vs. schools that don't the story is very clear about the protective factor of masking in schools.
A local woman who works in the grocery store I frequent was unvaccinated. Her husband had one shot. They are both 61. They both got Covid. He died quickly. Her mother also got it and died. She just got out of the hospital after a month. She told the news reporters she wished she had taken the shot.
And last, we found out that a college friend of ours just left the hospital after 10.5 months of battling Covid. Obviously he caught it before vaccines and before the Delta variant. He had been treated a year before that for prostate cancer. He reports that he can't walk without a walker and has probably permanent issues with breathing. He is 70, like me.
I figure if Joe Rogan (and/or Eric Clapton) can try to apply his personal experiences with Covid and vaccines universally to make a definitive universal statement on the effectiveness of vaccines, etc. I can too- right?
I don't care anymore about all the twists and turns of conspiracy theories regarding this whole pandemic and our response to it. As the French study of 22 million people seems to demonstrate, we are damn lucky that companies like Moderna and Pfizer etc. were able to pull out their long term studies on mRNA technology and utilize them.
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
Why would this woman wish
she would have taken the vaccination if her husband had died quickly WITH it? His quick death could have been caused by ADE which exacerbates the fatality of this disease. Was her mother vaccinated? What medication and advice were they given prior to hospitalization? What were their co-morbidities?
I don't know the answers to your questions.
You can ask her. I'm sure she will appreciate your concern.
https://www.wdrb.com/news/after-losing-husband-shelbyville-woman-recover...
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
From your comment I thought
you knew her personally.
Dr. Henry Ealy Recovery Part 5
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. . . ! ! !
Sorry, my inner jimmy dore slipped out .
If you can watch that video and still ‘believe’ in the religion, well, to keep it gentle,
LET’S GO BRANDON!
here it comes around again on the guitar
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. . . ! ! !
#fuckTHATjab
I’ll see myself to the door. . .
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
I think you've scared people
from watching the video.
Prevention & Early Treatment
As a French long term resident, I am deeply disturbed.
Luc Montaigner is a very adored figure here. There is something hinky about the French study. It is six months old or older as well. We are learning more each week if not each day.
Like OTC we both have environmental illness from toxin exposure that makes us incredibly sensitive to western medicines. We too (in France) have been advised not to get any shots for virus avoidance, including the standard flu shots, which we have gotten in the past.
If we can heal our inflammation and reactivity, we may be able to consider engaging in what others do routinely.
A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.
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I'd bet money on it being a case of lying with statistics.
They've already been caught counting those with a jab less than two weeks ago, or more than 3 months ago, as not being completely vaccinated, and thus any illness is counted as an "unvaccinated" person even though they have the jab within their body.
They have also been caught counting vaxxed vs. unvaxxed injuries using old data from past months when almost no vaxxes had yet been administered, but representing it as current data. This is akin to citing auto crash data from 1900 when horses were still in use, but leaving the reader to think it is about current car safety.
It is hinky alright.
Thank you. I have seen several who say that the
VAERS data shows that the most adverse events (AE) take place in the first 24 to 72 hours. So starting to count after two weeks is a real stretch. Leaves out a lot of information.
Jessica (I forgot her name) reported to the FDA in their last all-day session her painstaking review of VAERS data showed the spike near to the timing of the actual injections. Reviewed and checked by Hauk (?). Peer reviewed and published.
Found it:
VAERS data Jessica Rose
This is a 'New Tube' video. She has slides from her published papers.
https://brandnewtube.com/watch/dr-jessica-rose-vaers-data-reveals-5-427-...
A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.
Consider helping by donating using the button in the upper left hand corner. Thank you.
Thanks. That is a source I have not followed yet.
I'll watch her tonight.
I guess this goes here:
From The Grayzone - Public health or private wealth? How digital vaccine passports pave way for unprecedented surveillance capitalism
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
I posted that one
yesterday but got no comments.
It's a long, depressing but important piece. I was most taken aback by the video of the outdoor diners in France having their vaccine status checked by the patrolling police, and how casually the diners seemed to be taking it.
The perception that all French people think this is ok
is false. However, a large number are ok with it. They want the social contact and the familiar activities that have been unavailable for a long time.
There are weekly protests in most major cities, varying in number from week to week.
A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.
Consider helping by donating using the button in the upper left hand corner. Thank you.
Oh no doubt not
all French, and they are usually better than we are at taking to the streets in protest, usually on a weekly basis. Italians too.
I was just remarking how casually those seen in the video were taking the looming presence of police checking their papers.
Let's hope Uncle Joe doesn't let Ezekiel Emmanuel go too much to his head to start such police patrols over here. Or Gov Newsom, who also seems too eager to embrace stern compliance measures.
Another French study
And I quit smoking about 18 years ago!
It’s also thought
that nicotine coats the ACE2 receptors thereby cutting off access to the cell.
Read it in a link someone dropped back in 2020 sometime.
#SmokemorePot
Didn’t mean to scare off viewers, the dude is So laid back in his delivery that the truth bombs he’s dropping almost hurt More because of it!
Mea culpa
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
We have entered the twilight zone
Unvaccinated American are more likely to die of non-Covid causes
Boy that’s a hell of vaccine if it can lower deaths from ALL causes.
Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.
There's a 'small' caveat you missed
I saw a video of a guy being taken to the ground and choked out
for not wearing a mask.
So if it's something like that then I can believe it.
Was that on a train?
I’ve seen lots of people getting treated like that. Or arrested for not wearing one.
Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.
My impression was that it was in a store.
Sounds like the miracle medicine
, we've all been looking for to cure everything. Who knew we could get so lucky?
NIH caught quietly altering gain of function definition