is that the dreaded covid can strike even the rich and powerful, almost indiscriminately. The only differences in outcome are the levels of accessable health care and preexisting conditions. The cynic in me thinks this may be a ruse being used for political purposes. Unfortunately quarrentine will not stop the twitters.
is that the dreaded covid can strike even the rich and powerful, almost indiscriminately. The only differences in outcome are the levels of accessable health care and preexisting conditions. The cynic in me thinks this may be a ruse being used for political purposes. Unfortunately quarrentine will not stop the twitters.
up
14 users have voted.
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I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Bernie Sanders and the Left are starting out with in-person appearances in New Hampshire and Michigan.
This is the dual-track Biden campaign reaching public consciousness. As I've noted before, Senator Sanders has been doing web appearances supporting Biden and our candidates. Viewers have tuned in. Millions of them.
As Biden Bashed the Left, Bernie was talking to us.
It's pretty obvious, to me, at least, that this has been a highly calculated and coordinated effort to bring new (R) voters to Biden by hiding the strong connections between Bernie and Joe.
@NYCVG
Worse than a sheepdog. Another faux rebellion.
Bernie Sanders and the Left are starting out with in-person appearances in New Hampshire and Michigan.
This is the dual-track Biden campaign reaching public consciousness. As I've noted before, Senator Sanders has been doing web appearances supporting Biden and our candidates. Viewers have tuned in. Millions of them.
As Biden Bashed the Left, Bernie was talking to us.
It's pretty obvious, to me, at least, that this has been a highly calculated and coordinated effort to bring new (R) voters to Biden by hiding the strong connections between Bernie and Joe.
up
14 users have voted.
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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
You know what the difference between a Biden presidency and a Trump presidency will be? Fundamentally nothing. The rhetoric might differ, and the face they try to put on it might differ, but ultimately Biden and Trump serve the same masters.
We don't have a functioning democracy now, and whether or not Trump's in office isn't going to change that. It's kind of sad that people believe a vote for Biden is anything other than a vote to hurt the 99% and further erode what little democracy exists.
You know what the difference between a Biden presidency and a Trump presidency will be? Fundamentally nothing. The rhetoric might differ, and the face they try to put on it might differ, but ultimately Biden and Trump serve the same masters.
We don't have a functioning democracy now, and whether or not Trump's in office isn't going to change that. It's kind of sad that people believe a vote for Biden is anything other than a vote to hurt the 99% and further erode what little democracy exists.
Biden will be sold, and accepted by many, as being the solution to what just happened for the past 4 years, which is being sold as the problem with this country. "Hooray! Our long national nightmare is over!" will be the enthusiastically imbibed message, and all dissenting opinions will be squashed with a variant of "Do you want Trump, then? Would you like Trump to come back? Guess you must be a racist (sexist/homophobe/transphobe/xenophobe)."
The upshot of this will be more heinous policies excused and normalized by a process similar to money-laundering. Biden (or Kamala, or the enemies of Trump) will be the ones doing these policies, so therefore they can't be bad policies, because Biden, Kamala, or the enemies of Trump are the good guys. If you think different, you must be a bad guy. Therefore, if you think the policies are bad, you must be a bad guy. The focus will never be on the policies, or the people being hurt by them, which are the point.
Sort of like "this money is being made by this perfectly innocent laundromat (or restaurant, or bank)" therefore it can't be dirty money made from crime. All you have to do is pass the ugly policy through Democratic hands and it's clean forever.
Since it's policies, either the presence of bad ones or the absence of good ones, that kill and hurt people (at least as far as government is concerned), the result will be making things much worse. It's harder to excuse children in cages when Trump is president. Once Biden becomes "President" those children will disappear from public knowledge. Anyone who tries to keep them in the public eye will, necessarily, be a critic of the Biden administration, and thus will be smeared as a terrible Trump-lover, Putin puppet, whatever. And I bet, like torture, once the policy is sufficiently laundered--or erased from public view--it will be normalized and no longer a topic of conversation. With all the horrible things Democrats have said about Trump--an existential threat, a Manchurian candidate, etc--nobody has mentioned that he has the following normalized presidential powers: to assassinate anybody he wants to, torture anybody he wants to, and put anybody in prison for the rest of their life. Why have these things not been brought up? Why because torture, extrajudicial assassination, and indefinite detention are now normal. It's OK that Trump has the power to spy on all of us too.
I wonder what will be considered OK for the President to do by the time the next Republican enters that office?
You know what the difference between a Biden presidency and a Trump presidency will be? Fundamentally nothing. The rhetoric might differ, and the face they try to put on it might differ, but ultimately Biden and Trump serve the same masters.
We don't have a functioning democracy now, and whether or not Trump's in office isn't going to change that. It's kind of sad that people believe a vote for Biden is anything other than a vote to hurt the 99% and further erode what little democracy exists.
up
11 users have voted.
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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@NYCVG
trump for covid our whole for profit medical system is the elephant in the room. Its hardly shocking it would not be up to dealing with covid. As for the masks from day one i am skeptical of that as the one answer, far too many other variables created this shit show. And democrats bitch about masks, trump, blah blah but do nothing other than point their corrupt and greedy fingers at anything or anyone to cover for just how bad things are and their blatant part in that. This whole damned thing being used once again to entrench the two party team sport mentality is depressing as hell. Sickening. Enraging of course.
#2.1.1.2#2.1.1.2 I see where Trump's hubris and insanity about Covid has gotten us.
up
13 users have voted.
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Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
@lizzyh7
I posted a rough calculation last week or so. If the US had fatalities at the reported world average rate, we would have lost 40,000 lives, which is bad enough, but we can lay the extra 160,000 deaths right at Rump's feet.
Even major financial press organs were estimating that the US "economy" ( be it living wage or investor profits) would have saved trillions if the administration had followed standard epidemiological procedures of presenting consistent messaging informed by best science.
Even Chamber Of Commerce, Rockefeller Republican type capitalists wanted a more orderly attack on the pandemic.
Even Obomber passed on a detailed plan for coping with pandemic. Even Obomber had a team of epidemiologists in China performing epidemic surveillance. He may havebeen evil, but he wasn't incompetent.
Community spread was guaranteed when thousands of USians were brought back from China without quarantine or tracing.
Laws are in place which would have enabled the gov to order industries to start churning out large quantities of needed PPE right away, instead of making States to compete for limited resources in a libertarian free-for-all, with Kush snatching the football away.
And yes, the criminally backward and exploitative US medical system has and is costing lives. I've had sufficient horror stories of my encounters, like managing family end-of-life care, that still costs me sleep. But even that broken system could have functioned WAY better than what we have seen.
We can only compare the US to other right-wing-thug countries like Brazil and India and the UK. Which, incidentally, the UK has a functioning National Health, but they STILL went down the mortuary hole, much like the US did. One article said these countries suffer from a nationalist sense of "exceptionalism" as a common factor. Well, one result of that attitude is to have a bigoted boot-licker leader. Add in US unreality tv addiction and we have Rump. And Q. And all the folks whose "brains are squirming like a toad".
I do directly blame the Rump crime syndicate for most US COVID fatalities. And poverty. And fear. And it ain't fun. It hurts.
#2.1.1.2.1 trump for covid our whole for profit medical system is the elephant in the room. Its hardly shocking it would not be up to dealing with covid. As for the masks from day one i am skeptical of that as the one answer, far too many other variables created this shit show. And democrats bitch about masks, trump, blah blah but do nothing other than point their corrupt and greedy fingers at anything or anyone to cover for just how bad things are and their blatant part in that. This whole damned thing being used once again to entrench the two party team sport mentality is depressing as hell. Sickening. Enraging of course.
don't make it OK for me to support the prison labor ticket. The fact that the prison labor ticket is being sold as a blow for anti-racism just shows that we have, as Margaret Kimberley of Black Agenda Report said, reached bottom. And it makes it all the more imperative that I not support it. The most dangerous racist institution in our country, the one responsible for wrecking, and ending, the most black lives, is an integral part of the Democratic ticket. The fact that they put Michael Bloomberg on stage at their convention should be enough to allay any idea that this is an anti-racist ticket or party. So should the cozy way the Democrats have been wrapping their arms around the former members of the George W. Bush administration. Therefore, they are asking America to believe that this ticket, redolent of racism, is actually what anti-racism looks like. As long as America believes that, there will be no functioning movement against racism that will not be hamstrung at every turn by that misconception.
We've reached a place where liberals and progressives have started defending candidates who support and, in one case, helped engineer, the current iteration of the racist prison system. Also candidates who support, and sometimes have engineered, a brutal response to immigrants from the global south. Also candidates who support extrajudicial assassination, torture, indefinite detention and warrantless mass surveillance. Also candidates who support a state of constant warfare directed not by assessment of threat but by an assessment of profit. 160,000 dead here are a drop in the bucket of the dead of the Middle East and Africa
The truth is that both of these options are abominable and barbaric beyond words, and any system that asks us to choose between them should be torn down.
#2.1.1.2.1.1
I posted a rough calculation last week or so. If the US had fatalities at the reported world average rate, we would have lost 40,000 lives, which is bad enough, but we can lay the extra 160,000 deaths right at Rump's feet.
Even major financial press organs were estimating that the US "economy" ( be it living wage or investor profits) would have saved trillions if the administration had followed standard epidemiological procedures of presenting consistent messaging informed by best science.
Even Chamber Of Commerce, Rockefeller Republican type capitalists wanted a more orderly attack on the pandemic.
Even Obomber passed on a detailed plan for coping with pandemic. Even Obomber had a team of epidemiologists in China performing epidemic surveillance. He may havebeen evil, but he wasn't incompetent.
Community spread was guaranteed when thousands of USians were brought back from China without quarantine or tracing.
Laws are in place which would have enabled the gov to order industries to start churning out large quantities of needed PPE right away, instead of making States to compete for limited resources in a libertarian free-for-all, with Kush snatching the football away.
And yes, the criminally backward and exploitative US medical system has and is costing lives. I've had sufficient horror stories of my encounters, like managing family end-of-life care, that still costs me sleep. But even that broken system could have functioned WAY better than what we have seen.
We can only compare the US to other right-wing-thug countries like Brazil and India and the UK. Which, incidentally, the UK has a functioning National Health, but they STILL went down the mortuary hole, much like the US did. One article said these countries suffer from a nationalist sense of "exceptionalism" as a common factor. Well, one result of that attitude is to have a bigoted boot-licker leader. Add in US unreality tv addiction and we have Rump. And Q. And all the folks whose "brains are squirming like a toad".
I do directly blame the Rump crime syndicate for most US COVID fatalities. And poverty. And fear. And it ain't fun. It hurts.
up
10 users have voted.
—
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
The fact that the prison labor ticket is being sold as a blow for anti-racism just shows that we have, as Margaret Kimberley of Black Agenda Report said, reached bottom
I think it wouldn’t be crazy to suggest we’ve reached a full court gaslighting operation.
don't make it OK for me to support the prison labor ticket. The fact that the prison labor ticket is being sold as a blow for anti-racism just shows that we have, as Margaret Kimberley of Black Agenda Report said, reached bottom. And it makes it all the more imperative that I not support it. The most dangerous racist institution in our country, the one responsible for wrecking, and ending, the most black lives, is an integral part of the Democratic ticket. The fact that they put Michael Bloomberg on stage at their convention should be enough to allay any idea that this is an anti-racist ticket or party. So should the cozy way the Democrats have been wrapping their arms around the former members of the George W. Bush administration. Therefore, they are asking America to believe that this ticket, redolent of racism, is actually what anti-racism looks like. As long as America believes that, there will be no functioning movement against racism that will not be hamstrung at every turn by that misconception.
We've reached a place where liberals and progressives have started defending candidates who support and, in one case, helped engineer, the current iteration of the racist prison system. Also candidates who support, and sometimes have engineered, a brutal response to immigrants from the global south. Also candidates who support extrajudicial assassination, torture, indefinite detention and warrantless mass surveillance. Also candidates who support a state of constant warfare directed not by assessment of threat but by an assessment of profit. 160,000 dead here are a drop in the bucket of the dead of the Middle East and Africa
The truth is that both of these options are abominable and barbaric beyond words, and any system that asks us to choose between them should be torn down.
up
6 users have voted.
—
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
don't make it OK for me to support the prison labor ticket. The fact that the prison labor ticket is being sold as a blow for anti-racism just shows that we have, as Margaret Kimberley of Black Agenda Report said, reached bottom. And it makes it all the more imperative that I not support it. The most dangerous racist institution in our country, the one responsible for wrecking, and ending, the most black lives, is an integral part of the Democratic ticket. The fact that they put Michael Bloomberg on stage at their convention should be enough to allay any idea that this is an anti-racist ticket or party. So should the cozy way the Democrats have been wrapping their arms around the former members of the George W. Bush administration. Therefore, they are asking America to believe that this ticket, redolent of racism, is actually what anti-racism looks like. As long as America believes that, there will be no functioning movement against racism that will not be hamstrung at every turn by that misconception.
We've reached a place where liberals and progressives have started defending candidates who support and, in one case, helped engineer, the current iteration of the racist prison system. Also candidates who support, and sometimes have engineered, a brutal response to immigrants from the global south. Also candidates who support extrajudicial assassination, torture, indefinite detention and warrantless mass surveillance. Also candidates who support a state of constant warfare directed not by assessment of threat but by an assessment of profit. 160,000 dead here are a drop in the bucket of the dead of the Middle East and Africa
The truth is that both of these options are abominable and barbaric beyond words, and any system that asks us to choose between them should be torn down.
Infection Fatality Rate for persons age 75 shown at 4.2%. Risk factor of obesity somewhat offset by being a non-smoker, non-drinker and good health care. The first lady is, of course, much younger and not overweight, in all likelihood she'll be fine.
Huffpost reports
On Friday morning, Pence’s press secretary tweeted that the vice president and second lady had tested negative for COVID-19.
So I don't think we'll be seeing President Pelosi any time soon. Still, the odds were exactly zero last week and a fraction of a percent today, so I guess we can't rule it out.
up
13 users have voted.
—
"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone
Infection Fatality Rate for persons age 75 shown at 4.2%. Risk factor of obesity somewhat offset by being a non-smoker, non-drinker and good health care. The first lady is, of course, much younger and not overweight, in all likelihood she'll be fine.
Huffpost reports
On Friday morning, Pence’s press secretary tweeted that the vice president and second lady had tested negative for COVID-19.
So I don't think we'll be seeing President Pelosi any time soon. Still, the odds were exactly zero last week and a fraction of a percent today, so I guess we can't rule it out.
up
1 user has voted.
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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
from friends who simply commented "maybe there is a God". I didn't know what they were referring to until I saw the news. On Facebook, relatives and friends are all celebrating the fact that Trump got the virus. It's all giving me a stomach ache.
I don't wish Covid on ANYONE, and I am embarrassed and upset to see this kind of behavior from people who consider themselves moral liberal/progressives.
On a similar note, I got a notice from the Secular Coalition of America that there is a new group called Humanists For Biden. It's run by Greg Epstein the Harvard based humanist chaplain.
I replied to the email asking what it was about Biden's record as Senator, etc. that they feel fits with humanistic values. Don't think I'll hear back.
The world has gone off the deep end for sure when an atheist like me has to lecture people on morals.
up
18 users have voted.
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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
@Fishtroller 02
Morality and religion have a long and tumultuous relationship and they seldom seem to actually speak the same language. Many religious people understand atheism for what it often is as this little piece I keep lying around says:
There is this old tale where the rabbi was asked by one of his
students “Why did God create atheists?”
After a long pause, the rabbi finally responded with a soft but
sincere voice. “God created atheists” he said, “to teach us the most
important lesson of them all – the lesson of true compassion. You see,
when an atheist performs an act of charity, visits someone who is
sick, helps someone in need, and cares for the world, he is not doing
so because of some religious teaching. He does not believe that God
commanded him to perform this act. In fact, he does not believe in God
at all, so his actions are based on his sense of morality. Look at the
kindness he bestows on others simply because he feels it to be right.
When someone reaches out to you for help. You should never say ‘I’ll
pray that God will help you.’ Instead, for that moment, you should
become an atheist – imagine there is no God who could help, and say ‘I
will help you’.”
______________________________
__
Another version of the story goes like this:
“Do you believe,” the disciple asked the rabbi, “that God created
everything for a purpose?”
“I do,” replied the rabbi.
“Well,” asked the disciple, “why did God create atheists?”
“Sometimes we who believe, believe too much. We see the cruelty, the
suffering, the injustice in the world and we say: ‘This is the will of
God.’ We accept what we should not accept. That is when God sends us
atheists to remind us that what passes for religion is not always
religion. Sometimes what we accept in the name of God is what we
should be fighting against in the name of God.”
It has provided a hearty seven course meal to chew on for a few friends over the years when atheism comes up.
from friends who simply commented "maybe there is a God". I didn't know what they were referring to until I saw the news. On Facebook, relatives and friends are all celebrating the fact that Trump got the virus. It's all giving me a stomach ache.
I don't wish Covid on ANYONE, and I am embarrassed and upset to see this kind of behavior from people who consider themselves moral liberal/progressives.
On a similar note, I got a notice from the Secular Coalition of America that there is a new group called Humanists For Biden. It's run by Greg Epstein the Harvard based humanist chaplain.
I replied to the email asking what it was about Biden's record as Senator, etc. that they feel fits with humanistic values. Don't think I'll hear back.
The world has gone off the deep end for sure when an atheist like me has to lecture people on morals.
up
18 users have voted.
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"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
I think it is interesting that these stories involve a rabbi figure. One would hope that eventually that rabbi would apply this understanding to how God behaves in the Old Testament stories and come to the conclusion that God himself is quite immoral.
#4 Morality and religion have a long and tumultuous relationship and they seldom seem to actually speak the same language. Many religious people understand atheism for what it often is as this little piece I keep lying around says:
There is this old tale where the rabbi was asked by one of his
students “Why did God create atheists?”
After a long pause, the rabbi finally responded with a soft but
sincere voice. “God created atheists” he said, “to teach us the most
important lesson of them all – the lesson of true compassion. You see,
when an atheist performs an act of charity, visits someone who is
sick, helps someone in need, and cares for the world, he is not doing
so because of some religious teaching. He does not believe that God
commanded him to perform this act. In fact, he does not believe in God
at all, so his actions are based on his sense of morality. Look at the
kindness he bestows on others simply because he feels it to be right.
When someone reaches out to you for help. You should never say ‘I’ll
pray that God will help you.’ Instead, for that moment, you should
become an atheist – imagine there is no God who could help, and say ‘I
will help you’.”
______________________________
__
Another version of the story goes like this:
“Do you believe,” the disciple asked the rabbi, “that God created
everything for a purpose?”
“I do,” replied the rabbi.
“Well,” asked the disciple, “why did God create atheists?”
“Sometimes we who believe, believe too much. We see the cruelty, the
suffering, the injustice in the world and we say: ‘This is the will of
God.’ We accept what we should not accept. That is when God sends us
atheists to remind us that what passes for religion is not always
religion. Sometimes what we accept in the name of God is what we
should be fighting against in the name of God.”
It has provided a hearty seven course meal to chew on for a few friends over the years when atheism comes up.
up
14 users have voted.
—
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
@Fishtroller 02
than any other religion. With few exceptions I’ll take a rabbi to an evangelical of the flavor I’ve been surrounded by most of my life. For a Catholic country the people here are extremely laid back about the whole religion thing. They don’t care what religion, or none, as long as you’re not a dick. In my opinion DBAD should be a religion.
I think it is interesting that these stories involve a rabbi figure. One would hope that eventually that rabbi would apply this understanding to how God behaves in the Old Testament stories and come to the conclusion that God himself is quite immoral.
up
10 users have voted.
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"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
#4.1.1 than any other religion. With few exceptions I’ll take a rabbi to an evangelical of the flavor I’ve been surrounded by most of my life. For a Catholic country the people here are extremely laid back about the whole religion thing. They don’t care what religion, or none, as long as you’re not a dick. In my opinion DBAD should be a religion.
up
0 users have voted.
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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
@Fishtroller 02
Generalizations usually fail. We all have squirrels amongst us but they’re not always easy to identify until we give them a chance to show who they are.
midst of a community whose beliefs and practices are misogynist to the max, but it doesn't alleviate the problem for the women.
#4.1.1.1.1 Generalizations usually fail. We all have squirrels amongst us but they’re not always easy to identify until we give them a chance to show who they are.
up
3 users have voted.
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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
@Fishtroller 02
The only Jewish funeral I ever attended. I was impressed with the part where we all had a little bag of Israeli soil and tossed it into the grave. I added a very low "Requium im Pacem" in leiu of the Hebrew phrases that I couldn't say. Was very impressed with the Rabbi. He spoke breifly in French to my freind (a French jew) and narrowd his eyes and said something in a Slavic language another of my freinds. He has an English last name. Turns out his family is from Ukraine or Belorus, I forget which. Then he turned to me and asked "Where does your family come from?" I smiled and said "Sicily!" Damned if he didn't say something that sounded like the Southern Italian dialect! I don't speak it, but I've heard a lot. Then he said, "You're not Jewish are you?" I admitted it, and he said, "It's okay." I still have the little head covering that the funeral home gave me to wear. I can turn my head and see it now.
It was a good sendoff. Even though I couldn't understand the prayers at all. I just lowered my head and mumbled.
@The Voice In the Wilderness
about a "Green" way of burial. Instead of cremating the body, it is liquefied with alkali and then flushed down the city sewer! I told my wife. "Do what you please with my body, bury it, burn it and scatter it, but please don't flush me down the toilet! She promised.
Strange things we desire. I've promised her many times, "No Cadillac hearse." She hates Cadillac people. So it's a Lincoln, or, as I saw at one funeral, a Toyota SUV.
#4.1.1.1.1
The only Jewish funeral I ever attended. I was impressed with the part where we all had a little bag of Israeli soil and tossed it into the grave. I added a very low "Requium im Pacem" in leiu of the Hebrew phrases that I couldn't say. Was very impressed with the Rabbi. He spoke breifly in French to my freind (a French jew) and narrowd his eyes and said something in a Slavic language another of my freinds. He has an English last name. Turns out his family is from Ukraine or Belorus, I forget which. Then he turned to me and asked "Where does your family come from?" I smiled and said "Sicily!" Damned if he didn't say something that sounded like the Southern Italian dialect! I don't speak it, but I've heard a lot. Then he said, "You're not Jewish are you?" I admitted it, and he said, "It's okay." I still have the little head covering that the funeral home gave me to wear. I can turn my head and see it now.
It was a good sendoff. Even though I couldn't understand the prayers at all. I just lowered my head and mumbled.
up
5 users have voted.
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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
@The Voice In the Wilderness
One thing is you can have your ashes infused (?) into a marbled glass orb. The other is putting your ashes in a planter with a tree seed. I think both are pretty cool.
#4.1.1.1.1.2
about a "Green" way of burial. Instead of cremating the body, it is liquefied with alkali and then flushed down the city sewer! I told my wife. "Do what you please with my body, bury it, burn it and scatter it, but please don't flush me down the toilet! She promised.
Strange things we desire. I've promised her many times, "No Cadillac hearse." She hates Cadillac people. So it's a Lincoln, or, as I saw at one funeral, a Toyota SUV.
#4.1.1.1.1.2.1 One thing is you can have your ashes infused (?) into a marbled glass orb. The other is putting your ashes in a planter with a tree seed. I think both are pretty cool.
@Daenerys
My granddaughter's twin sister's ashes are in a teddy bear. She only made it to 20 weeks; she passed before she was born.
They gave my daughter a catalog of all the things they could do with her ashes. Ashes aren't just for urns anymore, they can be infused into works of art.
#4.1.1.1.1.2.1 One thing is you can have your ashes infused (?) into a marbled glass orb. The other is putting your ashes in a planter with a tree seed. I think both are pretty cool.
the head covering? If you are not Jewish, then you wearing the head covering would be insulting to Yahweh.
#4.1.1.1.1
The only Jewish funeral I ever attended. I was impressed with the part where we all had a little bag of Israeli soil and tossed it into the grave. I added a very low "Requium im Pacem" in leiu of the Hebrew phrases that I couldn't say. Was very impressed with the Rabbi. He spoke breifly in French to my freind (a French jew) and narrowd his eyes and said something in a Slavic language another of my freinds. He has an English last name. Turns out his family is from Ukraine or Belorus, I forget which. Then he turned to me and asked "Where does your family come from?" I smiled and said "Sicily!" Damned if he didn't say something that sounded like the Southern Italian dialect! I don't speak it, but I've heard a lot. Then he said, "You're not Jewish are you?" I admitted it, and he said, "It's okay." I still have the little head covering that the funeral home gave me to wear. I can turn my head and see it now.
It was a good sendoff. Even though I couldn't understand the prayers at all. I just lowered my head and mumbled.
up
1 user has voted.
—
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
#4.1.1 than any other religion. With few exceptions I’ll take a rabbi to an evangelical of the flavor I’ve been surrounded by most of my life. For a Catholic country the people here are extremely laid back about the whole religion thing. They don’t care what religion, or none, as long as you’re not a dick. In my opinion DBAD should be a religion.
up
4 users have voted.
—
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
@Bisbonian
has some very interesting YouTube interview videos. He approaches living his life from a religious point of view but the message he offers is one of peace, hope, and inclusion. I can get behind that whether it comes from a religious point of view or not or anyone. The message, how we treat each other, and how we live our lives is important while the "team" we follow, if any, is not.
#4.1.1.1.2 has some very interesting YouTube interview videos. He approaches living his life from a religious point of view but the message he offers is one of peace, hope, and inclusion. I can get behind that whether it comes from a religious point of view or not or anyone. The message, how we treat each other, and how we live our lives is important while the "team" we follow, if any, is not.
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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
The god bit reminded me of Ursula Le Guin's short story Birthday of the World. The gods in her story were defined in arbitrary ways. Sort of like the kings of yore and heads of state today. Even the aliens became gods for awhile. Seems the people needed to have absolute rule. Governed by belief. All else was petty power plays.
#4 Morality and religion have a long and tumultuous relationship and they seldom seem to actually speak the same language. Many religious people understand atheism for what it often is as this little piece I keep lying around says:
There is this old tale where the rabbi was asked by one of his
students “Why did God create atheists?”
After a long pause, the rabbi finally responded with a soft but
sincere voice. “God created atheists” he said, “to teach us the most
important lesson of them all – the lesson of true compassion. You see,
when an atheist performs an act of charity, visits someone who is
sick, helps someone in need, and cares for the world, he is not doing
so because of some religious teaching. He does not believe that God
commanded him to perform this act. In fact, he does not believe in God
at all, so his actions are based on his sense of morality. Look at the
kindness he bestows on others simply because he feels it to be right.
When someone reaches out to you for help. You should never say ‘I’ll
pray that God will help you.’ Instead, for that moment, you should
become an atheist – imagine there is no God who could help, and say ‘I
will help you’.”
______________________________
__
Another version of the story goes like this:
“Do you believe,” the disciple asked the rabbi, “that God created
everything for a purpose?”
“I do,” replied the rabbi.
“Well,” asked the disciple, “why did God create atheists?”
“Sometimes we who believe, believe too much. We see the cruelty, the
suffering, the injustice in the world and we say: ‘This is the will of
God.’ We accept what we should not accept. That is when God sends us
atheists to remind us that what passes for religion is not always
religion. Sometimes what we accept in the name of God is what we
should be fighting against in the name of God.”
It has provided a hearty seven course meal to chew on for a few friends over the years when atheism comes up.
@vtcc73
'I will help you.' Pretty good starting place, I think.
#4 Morality and religion have a long and tumultuous relationship and they seldom seem to actually speak the same language. Many religious people understand atheism for what it often is as this little piece I keep lying around says:
There is this old tale where the rabbi was asked by one of his
students “Why did God create atheists?”
After a long pause, the rabbi finally responded with a soft but
sincere voice. “God created atheists” he said, “to teach us the most
important lesson of them all – the lesson of true compassion. You see,
when an atheist performs an act of charity, visits someone who is
sick, helps someone in need, and cares for the world, he is not doing
so because of some religious teaching. He does not believe that God
commanded him to perform this act. In fact, he does not believe in God
at all, so his actions are based on his sense of morality. Look at the
kindness he bestows on others simply because he feels it to be right.
When someone reaches out to you for help. You should never say ‘I’ll
pray that God will help you.’ Instead, for that moment, you should
become an atheist – imagine there is no God who could help, and say ‘I
will help you’.”
______________________________
__
Another version of the story goes like this:
“Do you believe,” the disciple asked the rabbi, “that God created
everything for a purpose?”
“I do,” replied the rabbi.
“Well,” asked the disciple, “why did God create atheists?”
“Sometimes we who believe, believe too much. We see the cruelty, the
suffering, the injustice in the world and we say: ‘This is the will of
God.’ We accept what we should not accept. That is when God sends us
atheists to remind us that what passes for religion is not always
religion. Sometimes what we accept in the name of God is what we
should be fighting against in the name of God.”
It has provided a hearty seven course meal to chew on for a few friends over the years when atheism comes up.
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10 users have voted.
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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
#4 Morality and religion have a long and tumultuous relationship and they seldom seem to actually speak the same language. Many religious people understand atheism for what it often is as this little piece I keep lying around says:
There is this old tale where the rabbi was asked by one of his
students “Why did God create atheists?”
After a long pause, the rabbi finally responded with a soft but
sincere voice. “God created atheists” he said, “to teach us the most
important lesson of them all – the lesson of true compassion. You see,
when an atheist performs an act of charity, visits someone who is
sick, helps someone in need, and cares for the world, he is not doing
so because of some religious teaching. He does not believe that God
commanded him to perform this act. In fact, he does not believe in God
at all, so his actions are based on his sense of morality. Look at the
kindness he bestows on others simply because he feels it to be right.
When someone reaches out to you for help. You should never say ‘I’ll
pray that God will help you.’ Instead, for that moment, you should
become an atheist – imagine there is no God who could help, and say ‘I
will help you’.”
______________________________
__
Another version of the story goes like this:
“Do you believe,” the disciple asked the rabbi, “that God created
everything for a purpose?”
“I do,” replied the rabbi.
“Well,” asked the disciple, “why did God create atheists?”
“Sometimes we who believe, believe too much. We see the cruelty, the
suffering, the injustice in the world and we say: ‘This is the will of
God.’ We accept what we should not accept. That is when God sends us
atheists to remind us that what passes for religion is not always
religion. Sometimes what we accept in the name of God is what we
should be fighting against in the name of God.”
It has provided a hearty seven course meal to chew on for a few friends over the years when atheism comes up.
Sorry, atheist here as well, and someone causing suffering in the world--who promotes "evil"--why shouldn't we celebrate their demise? Otherwise, aren't you in effect supporting evil (or suffering or however you want to categorize it). Hate to go all Godwin, but if someone didn't want Hitler dead, they (in my mind) are evil.
Now, that doesn't mean at all that I support killing in any way. But, if someone suffers their comeuppance, I'm not gonna shed a tear. Might even celebrate.
Feel free to find that cold and heartless if you'd like. But, evil removed from this world makes the world a better and more livable place. Everyone dies eventually anyway. Don't understand why people get so anxious and upset about it. Might as well be sooner for those who introduce so much suffering.
Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I respect your position and morality a lot, actually. It's very noble. Just wonder if as an unintended side effect you're wishing ill on the world and further deaths.
I'm sure some will celebrate when I leave this mortal coil. Who really cares? I've done a ton of good thus far (in my opinion) helping others out.
from friends who simply commented "maybe there is a God". I didn't know what they were referring to until I saw the news. On Facebook, relatives and friends are all celebrating the fact that Trump got the virus. It's all giving me a stomach ache.
I don't wish Covid on ANYONE, and I am embarrassed and upset to see this kind of behavior from people who consider themselves moral liberal/progressives.
On a similar note, I got a notice from the Secular Coalition of America that there is a new group called Humanists For Biden. It's run by Greg Epstein the Harvard based humanist chaplain.
I replied to the email asking what it was about Biden's record as Senator, etc. that they feel fits with humanistic values. Don't think I'll hear back.
The world has gone off the deep end for sure when an atheist like me has to lecture people on morals.
such evil that they deserve to suffer or die? I don't get any satisfaction out of a celebration of Trump getting sick, especially when you realize that the Democrats have enabled his agenda at every turn, or when you realize that he has tried to get us out of Iraq and Afghanistan and the Dems have blocked him. Who are the evils players here? What Hitler deserved in a moral society was capture, a trial and imprisonment, not torture and death at the hands of a mob. When we wish ill on others, we lower ourselves to the level of evil and depress civilization.
Sorry, atheist here as well, and someone causing suffering in the world--who promotes "evil"--why shouldn't we celebrate their demise? Otherwise, aren't you in effect supporting evil (or suffering or however you want to categorize it). Hate to go all Godwin, but if someone didn't want Hitler dead, they (in my mind) are evil.
Now, that doesn't mean at all that I support killing in any way. But, if someone suffers their comeuppance, I'm not gonna shed a tear. Might even celebrate.
Feel free to find that cold and heartless if you'd like. But, evil removed from this world makes the world a better and more livable place. Everyone dies eventually anyway. Don't understand why people get so anxious and upset about it. Might as well be sooner for those who introduce so much suffering.
Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I respect your position and morality a lot, actually. It's very noble. Just wonder if as an unintended side effect you're wishing ill on the world and further deaths.
I'm sure some will celebrate when I leave this mortal coil. Who really cares? I've done a ton of good thus far (in my opinion) helping others out.
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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
@Fishtroller 02
friends seem ecstatic today at the news, complete with a cute meme. Sigh. I find myself angry at them for that today, although not surprised at all. Seems very repugnant like to me, but I'm just a purist I guess, since I find it hardly great news. Maybe we'll get president pence after all, won't that be a nice kick in the ass.
such evil that they deserve to suffer or die? I don't get any satisfaction out of a celebration of Trump getting sick, especially when you realize that the Democrats have enabled his agenda at every turn, or when you realize that he has tried to get us out of Iraq and Afghanistan and the Dems have blocked him. Who are the evils players here? What Hitler deserved in a moral society was capture, a trial and imprisonment, not torture and death at the hands of a mob. When we wish ill on others, we lower ourselves to the level of evil and depress civilization.
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Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
#4.2.1 friends seem ecstatic today at the news, complete with a cute meme. Sigh. I find myself angry at them for that today, although not surprised at all. Seems very repugnant like to me, but I'm just a purist I guess, since I find it hardly great news. Maybe we'll get president pence after all, won't that be a nice kick in the ass.
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"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
That Trump would come down sick with "a hoax" -- that is, a virus that he has insisted for months is not serious, and possibly not even real -- is simply a natural consequence of his own decisions and (in)action.
It matters not what anyone wishes would happen, or if some people are happy about what can be viewed as a demonstration of karma, or the concept that 'what goes around comes around' when Trump's own choices, and his deceitful denial of the seriousness of the virus, have certainly contributed to if not directly caused many thousands of deaths as his supporters eschew masks and other basic precautions because of his words and behavior.
Personally my reaction to the news this morning was to laugh and then text my husband: "LOL! Trump has tested positive for the hoax virus!" What I hope is that the Trump-supporting dumb ass who owns the shop where my spouse works, and his office-manager/girlfriend, and her mother, and all of their Trumpster friends who refuse to take it seriously (no masks, making fun of people who do wear one, close-contact social gatherings just to show off and celebrate their contempt for the very idea of the virus) all get a big loud wake-up call. If Trump gets really sick or even dies from it, then maybe they will rethink their idiocy. And I would absolutely be happy about that.
It could literally save countless lives if he did suffer and die from it. My wishes or feelings make no difference whatsoever, of course, and I refuse to feel shamed or guilty because I find it amusing when his lies come back to bite him, or because I feel hopeful that this turn of events might save lives.
I'm an atheist too, as you know, which for me makes it even less about wishes or what anyone 'deserves' but simply about how things work. Consequences happen. In this situation, that could be a good thing.
such evil that they deserve to suffer or die? I don't get any satisfaction out of a celebration of Trump getting sick, especially when you realize that the Democrats have enabled his agenda at every turn, or when you realize that he has tried to get us out of Iraq and Afghanistan and the Dems have blocked him. Who are the evils players here? What Hitler deserved in a moral society was capture, a trial and imprisonment, not torture and death at the hands of a mob. When we wish ill on others, we lower ourselves to the level of evil and depress civilization.
for making our own health care decisions? People get Covid for lots of reasons. They could have gotten it because they listening to Trump or Fauci (masks aren't necessary)or Nancy "forget the virus and come to Chinatown to shop" Pelosi. If Gov. Cuomo got it, would we say its payback for putting elderly people back into nursing homes where they caught it and died?
I doubt that your spouse's boss and all the yahoos that won't wear masks will change one iota in their convictions about masks if Trump bites the dust from it. If they do, they sure won't confess to it.
That Trump would come down sick with "a hoax" -- that is, a virus that he has insisted for months is not serious, and possibly not even real -- is simply a natural consequence of his own decisions and (in)action.
It matters not what anyone wishes would happen, or if some people are happy about what can be viewed as a demonstration of karma, or the concept that 'what goes around comes around' when Trump's own choices, and his deceitful denial of the seriousness of the virus, have certainly contributed to if not directly caused many thousands of deaths as his supporters eschew masks and other basic precautions because of his words and behavior.
Personally my reaction to the news this morning was to laugh and then text my husband: "LOL! Trump has tested positive for the hoax virus!" What I hope is that the Trump-supporting dumb ass who owns the shop where my spouse works, and his office-manager/girlfriend, and her mother, and all of their Trumpster friends who refuse to take it seriously (no masks, making fun of people who do wear one, close-contact social gatherings just to show off and celebrate their contempt for the very idea of the virus) all get a big loud wake-up call. If Trump gets really sick or even dies from it, then maybe they will rethink their idiocy. And I would absolutely be happy about that.
It could literally save countless lives if he did suffer and die from it. My wishes or feelings make no difference whatsoever, of course, and I refuse to feel shamed or guilty because I find it amusing when his lies come back to bite him, or because I feel hopeful that this turn of events might save lives.
I'm an atheist too, as you know, which for me makes it even less about wishes or what anyone 'deserves' but simply about how things work. Consequences happen. In this situation, that could be a good thing.
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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
I do not feel sorry for him. He is just as personally responsible for his decisions as anyone else. He chose to lie about the virus not being serious, he chose to pretend it isn't real, he chose to take the risks he took. So he predictably got the virus. So what? We are supposed to cry over him getting it now? Why? I seriously don't get it.
The people I am referring to who expose my husband (and therefore me) every day to getting this virus due to their recklessness, do so solely based on their trump-worship. Sure, my husband and I have chosen to take the risk of him keeping his job, so that we do not lose our home and our income, and we are responsible for that decision, so if we die from the virus then I suppose we will deserve it.
for making our own health care decisions? People get Covid for lots of reasons. They could have gotten it because they listening to Trump or Fauci (masks aren't necessary)or Nancy "forget the virus and come to Chinatown to shop" Pelosi. If Gov. Cuomo got it, would we say its payback for putting elderly people back into nursing homes where they caught it and died?
I doubt that your spouse's boss and all the yahoos that won't wear masks will change one iota in their convictions about masks if Trump bites the dust from it. If they do, they sure won't confess to it.
I do not feel sorry for him. He is just as personally responsible for his decisions as anyone else. He chose to lie about the virus not being serious, he chose to pretend it isn't real, he chose to take the risks he took. So he predictably got the virus. So what? We are supposed to cry over him getting it now? Why? I seriously don't get it.
The people I am referring to who expose my husband (and therefore me) every day to getting this virus due to their recklessness, do so solely based on their trump-worship. Sure, my husband and I have chosen to take the risk of him keeping his job, so that we do not lose our home and our income, and we are responsible for that decision, so if we die from the virus then I suppose we will deserve it.
And I certainly don't "cry" for him. I just think that the frenzied dancing and celebration and loathsome remarks that are all over social media posted by mostly Dems is not something I want to participate in. I think it's so..... well, let's say "Christian" in a way. It's that meme that people deserve cosmic punishment for their sins.
What if Joe Biden got the virus after whispering on stage with Anderson Cooper, masks off, during the CNN townhall? Would we all say he got what he deserved for his behavior?
I do not feel sorry for him. He is just as personally responsible for his decisions as anyone else. He chose to lie about the virus not being serious, he chose to pretend it isn't real, he chose to take the risks he took. So he predictably got the virus. So what? We are supposed to cry over him getting it now? Why? I seriously don't get it.
The people I am referring to who expose my husband (and therefore me) every day to getting this virus due to their recklessness, do so solely based on their trump-worship. Sure, my husband and I have chosen to take the risk of him keeping his job, so that we do not lose our home and our income, and we are responsible for that decision, so if we die from the virus then I suppose we will deserve it.
Nonetheless, fuck Trump. That is all.
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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
And I certainly don't "cry" for him. I just think that the frenzied dancing and celebration and loathsome remarks that are all over social media posted by mostly Dems is not something I want to participate in. I think it's so..... well, let's say "Christian" in a way. It's that meme that people deserve cosmic punishment for their sins.
What if Joe Biden got the virus after whispering on stage with Anderson Cooper, masks off, during the CNN townhall? Would we all say he got what he deserved for his behavior?
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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
That frickin molester and war monger. What he did to Anita Hill. His fracking crusades.
Honestly, I'll cry tears of sadness when Jimmy Carter passes. Every other president who is alive, I will celebrate their passing because most of what they've done is evil and killed multitudes. All are guilty of war crimes.
And I certainly don't "cry" for him. I just think that the frenzied dancing and celebration and loathsome remarks that are all over social media posted by mostly Dems is not something I want to participate in. I think it's so..... well, let's say "Christian" in a way. It's that meme that people deserve cosmic punishment for their sins.
What if Joe Biden got the virus after whispering on stage with Anderson Cooper, masks off, during the CNN townhall? Would we all say he got what he deserved for his behavior?
@Bob In Portland
or simply a strategically placed super-spreader to help thin the herd that currently works @ 1600 PA Ave? I do not find either inconceivable. Spooks plan for all sorts of remediation options.
But the most probable explanation is much simpler: carelessness and a showman’s bravado offer no protection from COVID.
Maybe this is the CIA's October Surprise 2020 version.
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“ …and when we destroy nature, we diminish our capacity to sense the divine,and understand who God is, and what our own potential is and duties are as human beings.- RFK jr. 8/26/2024
Get Covid before now. He has not been careful.
I hope he hasn't infected White House staff members, many of whom are African Americans and paid low wages.
Election Season Upended: Trump’s COVID Diagnosis Could Reshape Race, Debates & SCOTUS Fight
President Donald Trump has tested positive for COVID-19, throwing the final month of an already unprecedented election season into disarray. What will this latest news mean for the debates and the Supreme Court? And what will happen if President Trump is unable to lead the country? We speak to journalist John Nichols about the line of succession, campaigning in the critical swing state of Wisconsin, and more. We also speak with Naomi Klein, senior correspondent at The Intercept and a professor at Rutgers University.
How will President Trump’s revelation that he tested positive for COVID-19 affect the presidential race? Acclaimed journalist, author and activist Naomi Klein warns that the Trump campaign is likely to exploit the news.“We need to be prepared for the president using the fact that he’s having to cancel campaign events for two weeks to try to further delegitimize elections,” she says.
Election Season Upended: Trump’s COVID Diagnosis Could Reshape Race, Debates & SCOTUS Fight
President Donald Trump has tested positive for COVID-19, throwing the final month of an already unprecedented election season into disarray. What will this latest news mean for the debates and the Supreme Court? And what will happen if President Trump is unable to lead the country? We speak to journalist John Nichols about the line of succession, campaigning in the critical swing state of Wisconsin, and more. We also speak with Naomi Klein, senior correspondent at The Intercept and a professor at Rutgers University.
How will President Trump’s revelation that he tested positive for COVID-19 affect the presidential race? Acclaimed journalist, author and activist Naomi Klein warns that the Trump campaign is likely to exploit the news.“We need to be prepared for the president using the fact that he’s having to cancel campaign events for two weeks to try to further delegitimize elections,” she says.
Naomi has strong words here, listen for yourself.
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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
You've heard of the blue flu, when the entire police department called in sick when they either lost their contract or were too hungover to clock in? Well, this smells like the orange pandemic panic to me.
calling in sick to work when you have other things on your agenda besides work?
@QMS
, for a whole host of reasons. He is loosing support among the older folks who are unhappy with his response to COVID (oh the irony). It could be the issue that causes him to loose the election. Perhaps his bosses have asked him to step aside for Pence.
You've heard of the blue flu, when the entire police department called in sick when they either lost their contract or were too hungover to clock in? Well, this smells like the orange pandemic panic to me.
PBS News’ Yamiche Alcindor reports that both Biden and his wife, Dr. Jill Biden, tested negative for the disease, hours after President Donald Trump and first lady Melania Trump both tested positive.
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"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone
2-3 days is pretty early to have a viral load that the tests can reliably detect. If I was in Biden’s situation I would not feel out of the woods until I was negative 5-8 days post exposure.
PBS News’ Yamiche Alcindor reports that both Biden and his wife, Dr. Jill Biden, tested negative for the disease, hours after President Donald Trump and first lady Melania Trump both tested positive.
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“ …and when we destroy nature, we diminish our capacity to sense the divine,and understand who God is, and what our own potential is and duties are as human beings.- RFK jr. 8/26/2024
BREAKING—we now know Hope Hicks’s testing timeline:
Tuesday before debate: NEGATIVE
Wednesday morning: NEGATIVE
Wednesday mid day illness onset
Wednesday mid day: POSITIVE
Thursday evening Trump and FLOTUS: POSITIVE
IOW - the tests for Hicks were negative until AFTER she was recognizably ill. On average from infection to being ill is five days. That would set her infection back to last Friday or Saturday.
2-3 days is pretty early to have a viral load that the tests can reliably detect. If I was in Biden’s situation I would not feel out of the woods until I was negative 5-8 days post exposure.
PBS News’ Yamiche Alcindor reports that both Biden and his wife, Dr. Jill Biden, tested negative for the disease, hours after President Donald Trump and first lady Melania Trump both tested positive.
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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
PBS News’ Yamiche Alcindor reports that both Biden and his wife, Dr. Jill Biden, tested negative for the disease, hours after President Donald Trump and first lady Melania Trump both tested positive.
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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
President Donald Trump is ending quarantine within the White House residence to travel to Walter Reed Medical Center ... he's expected to undergo tests ... Out of an abundance of caution … the President will be working from the presidential offices at Walter Reed for the next few days.
Probably just getting a head start on his annual physical. What tests are they unable to do in the White House infirmary? Maybe CT scans for fluid buildup in the lungs? Next few days? That's more than a few tests.
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6 users have voted.
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"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone
Walter Reed, eh? Guess he ain't fakin' it. Seems to be a spreader event. WH journos, Melons, rethugs, staff, maybe funders. At least Barron seems safe so far (he doesn't touch children, I think).
After all his years of mockery of people who are sick, weak, not-white, and disabled, the chickens come home to roost. Mask it or casket!
Not that I would ever, ever celebrate ill fortune to a lying thieving scheming murderous scumbag.
Even if he is just a symptom. /snark
But yet again, he succeeds in controlling the headlines... He's just dying for attention!
I wished we had the 'good doctor' who was fired from C99 to give his evaluation. And then there was another doctor, whom he got in fist fights with. I would like his opinions as well.
It's interesting to realize who has left this site behind. So sad, but what do I understand?
Nada.
got the boogie-woogie flu.
Walter Reed, eh? Guess he ain't fakin' it. Seems to be a spreader event. WH journos, Melons, rethugs, staff, maybe funders. At least Barron seems safe so far (he doesn't touch children, I think).
After all his years of mockery of people who are sick, weak, not-white, and disabled, the chickens come home to roost. Mask it or casket!
Not that I would ever, ever celebrate ill fortune to a lying thieving scheming murderous scumbag.
Even if he is just a symptom. /snark
But yet again, he succeeds in controlling the headlines... He's just dying for attention!
I wished we had the 'good doctor' who was fired from C99 to give his evaluation. And then there was another doctor, whom he got in fist fights with. I would like his opinions as well.
It's interesting to realize who has left this site behind. So sad, but what do I understand?
Nada.
@pindar's revenge@pindar's revenge@pindar's revenge
every voice counts the same here. edited: As I am not on twitter and never use it or read it, I was never using facebook and don't know anything about its advantages and disadvantages and I do not lie, so my capability to recognize lies of others is minimal.
I really do not care about any of those platforms and am glad that others watch out on those platforms and post here what they think is worth to be posted and mentioned.
#13.1
Long enough to testify, implicate, and go to jail. I hope he doesn't get medically Epstein'd.
And yes, I do miss some of the old posters I got into long conversations with. Things seem a bit more twitterish these days.
is the one infecting everyone? Did she meet with those two by chance? I don't know when that photo was taken (in the tweet you link to), but if it was in recent days, it kind of makes you go "Hmmmmmmm".
@apenultimate
Barrett announcement event. Lee and Barrett also met on Tuesday.
Reportedly Barrett tested positive some weeks ago but since then has had numerous negative tests. Barrett probably isn't the WH cluster index case or cases. Has to have been someone that would have been infectious by Saturday -- not likely Hicks or Trump -- and traveled on AF-1 late Saturday to Pennsylvania.
The City of Cleveland is aware of positive cases of COVID-19 following the Sept. 29 presidential debate. In total, at this time, we are aware of 11 cases stemming from pre-debate planning and set-up, with the majority of cases occurring among out of state residents. At this time, though that could change, no City residents appear to have contracted the virus as a result of this event.
This cluster would exclude those that traveled to Cleveland on AF-1, arriving around 4:00 pm.
is the one infecting everyone? Did she meet with those two by chance? I don't know when that photo was taken (in the tweet you link to), but if it was in recent days, it kind of makes you go "Hmmmmmmm".
Two friends of Barrett, who were granted anonymity because they did not feel comfortable discussing Barrett’s personal medical history on the record, confirmed to TIME that the judge had been sick in recent months and was thought to have contracted the virus. One said Barrett displayed mild symptoms and had quarantined. The other said she had received a positive test result.
The Washington Post reported Friday that Barrett had been diagnosed with the virus over the summer and had recovered, citing three officials familiar with the diagnosis.
The White House declined to comment. A member of Barrett’s family did not respond to a request for comment.
.
So it's probably unlikely that she is the one who infected so many people at the event. Not to say it's impossible. There is so much that remains unknown about... well, everything. Maybe someday we will find out more.
is the one infecting everyone? Did she meet with those two by chance? I don't know when that photo was taken (in the tweet you link to), but if it was in recent days, it kind of makes you go "Hmmmmmmm".
@Anja Geitz
Trump’s brand new campaign manager Bill Stepien has tested positive for #COVID19 too. (Stephen just replaced Bill He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named-And-Got-Arrested).
contact tracing info. I never got around to it, but was thinking about taking an online contact tracing course (they're free).
Anyhoo, from what I've read, would think that it's against privacy laws to release this info. When I was checking out the courses, read where 'tracers' are not allowed to even inform anyone of who named them as a contact (when tracing). I'm 'guessing' it's intended to protect people from possible retribution--from those that they may have infected. Seems as though it would violate HIPAA, too.
Have you seen anything about this policy?
It puzzles me that several CNN so-called experts wouldn't be knowledgeable of proper contact tracing protocols. (which may differ, somewhat, by state--dunno) At any rate, they've literally spent hours trying to figure out 'who' was first infected.
Have a good one.
Mollie
"The leaders of this new movement are replacing traditional liberal beliefs about tolerance, free inquiry, and even racial harmony with ideas so toxic and unattractive that they eschew debate, moving straight to shaming, threats, and intimidation."
~~Matt Taibbi, The American Press Is Destroying Itself, June 12, 2020
#14 Trump’s brand new campaign manager Bill Stepien has tested positive for #COVID19 too. (Stephen just replaced Bill He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named-And-Got-Arrested).
Kellyanne Conway – positive with mild symptoms
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4 users have voted.
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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
@Unabashed Liberal
the state has the legal authority to require disclosure of known contacts and to contact those contacts and impose whatever tests and restrictions that are deemed necessary under the circumstances. HIPPA law wouldn't have eliminated that.
A personal example -- a public health nurse showed up at my workplace because a temporary employee had been diagnosed with TB. The nurse administered a TB skin test to all of us with instructions on what to do if one had a reaction. As we were all negative that thread to the patient's contact tracing was complete. When my niece was young, three years old iirc, she tested positive for TB in a routine wellness check. Public health took over her case at that point. The family was all negative and she had yet to attend daycare. Where she acquired it could not be determined. She was medicated for about a year and x-rays confirmed no active TB. She will always test positive for TB but she is immune.
NJ authorities are currently handling the contact tracing for Trump's Thursday events. They've acquired lists of the people who were present from the Trump campaign, Republican party, and venue (Trump golf club). So far, the authorities have said that the lists are incomplete wrt to those who staffed the events. It's assumed that everyone that had been there was given a rapid test before the events and all of those would have been negative. Security around Trump is tight enough that it would be surprising if they missed anyone in the testing. The NJ authorities can recommend but not require a fourteen day quarantine for all those who were present. I suppose they can also follow up with those people over the next couple of weeks but may have no authority to require further testing and clinical monitoring. So, from a public health perspective, it's a bit casual.
The contact tracing in this instance is limited to setting Trump as the index case and all those that were present that day as the contacts. If any of those contacts were infected, it's unlikely that up until now that they are infectious, but there's not much time left before they could become infectious. IMHO a better protocol would be 1) mandatory face masks for all contacts when in the presence of anyone, including family, and not allowing anyone but co-inhabitants in the home for three weeks (the virus airborne risk) and mandatory face masks for co-inhabitants 2) a PCR test if any symptoms, including temperature elevation, develops or if no symptoms develop, PCR tests (not the crap rabid test) after seven, fourteen, and twenty-one days. With stiff fines for violations.
contact tracing info. I never got around to it, but was thinking about taking an online contact tracing course (they're free).
Anyhoo, from what I've read, would think that it's against privacy laws to release this info. When I was checking out the courses, read where 'tracers' are not allowed to even inform anyone of who named them as a contact (when tracing). I'm 'guessing' it's intended to protect people from possible retribution--from those that they may have infected. Seems as though it would violate HIPAA, too.
Have you seen anything about this policy?
It puzzles me that several CNN so-called experts wouldn't be knowledgeable of proper contact tracing protocols. (which may differ, somewhat, by state--dunno) At any rate, they've literally spent hours trying to figure out 'who' was first infected.
Have a good one.
Mollie
"The leaders of this new movement are replacing traditional liberal beliefs about tolerance, free inquiry, and even racial harmony with ideas so toxic and unattractive that they eschew debate, moving straight to shaming, threats, and intimidation."
~~Matt Taibbi, The American Press Is Destroying Itself, June 12, 2020
@Marie
And didn't she also test positive? Who infected who? I'm remembering Clinton here?
#14.2.1 the state has the legal authority to require disclosure of known contacts and to contact those contacts and impose whatever tests and restrictions that are deemed necessary under the circumstances. HIPPA law wouldn't have eliminated that.
A personal example -- a public health nurse showed up at my workplace because a temporary employee had been diagnosed with TB. The nurse administered a TB skin test to all of us with instructions on what to do if one had a reaction. As we were all negative that thread to the patient's contact tracing was complete. When my niece was young, three years old iirc, she tested positive for TB in a routine wellness check. Public health took over her case at that point. The family was all negative and she had yet to attend daycare. Where she acquired it could not be determined. She was medicated for about a year and x-rays confirmed no active TB. She will always test positive for TB but she is immune.
NJ authorities are currently handling the contact tracing for Trump's Thursday events. They've acquired lists of the people who were present from the Trump campaign, Republican party, and venue (Trump golf club). So far, the authorities have said that the lists are incomplete wrt to those who staffed the events. It's assumed that everyone that had been there was given a rapid test before the events and all of those would have been negative. Security around Trump is tight enough that it would be surprising if they missed anyone in the testing. The NJ authorities can recommend but not require a fourteen day quarantine for all those who were present. I suppose they can also follow up with those people over the next couple of weeks but may have no authority to require further testing and clinical monitoring. So, from a public health perspective, it's a bit casual.
The contact tracing in this instance is limited to setting Trump as the index case and all those that were present that day as the contacts. If any of those contacts were infected, it's unlikely that up until now that they are infectious, but there's not much time left before they could become infectious. IMHO a better protocol would be 1) mandatory face masks for all contacts when in the presence of anyone, including family, and not allowing anyone but co-inhabitants in the home for three weeks (the virus airborne risk) and mandatory face masks for co-inhabitants 2) a PCR test if any symptoms, including temperature elevation, develops or if no symptoms develop, PCR tests (not the crap rabid test) after seven, fourteen, and twenty-one days. With stiff fines for violations.
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1 user has voted.
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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
@The Voice In the Wilderness
('hot babe' seems a bit demeaning and TrumpSpeak in this instance. She's very attractive and was a model when she was younger, but she did get a college degree.)
Regardless, she was the first person on the Trump team to become ill. By sometime Wednesday afternoon. They have been relying on a daily rapid test and are claiming that she tested negative Wednesday morning. The story is a bit murky after that. There may have been another test that afternoon that was positive, but the claim is that a positive test result was only released on Thursday shortly before Trump left for NJ. All of this could be true: negative Wednesday morning, positive rapid test Wednesday afternoon, and the slower PCR test administered Wed evening with the results issued on Thursday. (We seem to be living and dying by these tests which IMHO is a huge mistake. Temperature checks may be as good or better than the rapid test.)
If Hicks were infected on Saturday at the Barret shindig, she developed physical symptoms more quickly than average and with one exception that of the others in attendance that have subsequently tested positive. The exception is a WHCA journalist who also became ill on Wednesday. Possible if both are heavy, daily exercise devotees. Or they were infected earlier than Saturday, but early enough to have been infectious by Saturday? It does appear that someone at that Saturday event was infectious and infected others. If true, that person may also have been on AF-1 for the trip to PA that evening. So far, only Trump and Hicks have been identified as present at both and subsequently tested positive. The timeline, as currently known, doesn't suggest to me that either were infectious on Saturday.
By Tuesday evening, very likely that Hicks was infectious and Trump may have been as well. By Thursday, highly likely that Trump was infectious, but not yet known if he infected anyone on AF-1 or at the NJ events.
The bottom line is that all of this could have been avoided if team Trump always wore masks when in the presence of others.
#14.2.1.1
And didn't she also test positive? Who infected who? I'm remembering Clinton here?
Understand that various government agencies can obtain medical info, and use it to contact infected people--including for COVID, TB, and other infectious diseases.
But, when I read a contact tracing online course summary, it made reference to the fact that if one is contacted by a contact tracer, that contact tracer will not identify the person who gave their name (as someone they've interacted with/exposed to COVID).
I figure that's for the protection of the infected person (who provides his list of contacts).
BTW, (from my reading) appears that laws do vary regarding how much authority state governments have when it comes to enforcing/demanding the cooperation of people given as contacts by COVID-infected/positive individuals. Not all state public health agencies/entities can issue warrants to obtain cooperation. But, some--NY and Kentucky (that I've read about, recently), can, and, already have done so.
Including putting ankle bracelets on quarantined people. (KY)
Read article about cell phone app tracing--checked our phones, and sure enough--we have a tracing program on them. It was in an app update, I suppose, since neither of us would ever knowing download such a program. (Obviously, we're not activating the program, either. We don't even use GPS.) We both have a backup flip phone--so, if every asked, I'll present them. Pretty sure you'd need an Android or Apple OS to be contact traced. (our smartphones are Androids)
Noticed your wording,
a public health nurse showed up at my workplace because 'a temporary employee' had been diagnosed with TB.
According to what I've read about COVID contact tracing guidelines, identifying the infected person--even if not using the individual's name--would likely be prohibited, today.
(assuming that the use of the term 'a temporary employee' would have conclusively identified that person to you and others in the workplace)
Have a nice weekend.
Mollie
"The leaders of this new movement are replacing traditional liberal beliefs about tolerance, free inquiry, and even racial harmony with ideas so toxic and unattractive that they eschew debate, moving straight to shaming, threats, and intimidation."
~~Matt Taibbi, The American Press Is Destroying Itself, June 12, 2020
#14.2.1 the state has the legal authority to require disclosure of known contacts and to contact those contacts and impose whatever tests and restrictions that are deemed necessary under the circumstances. HIPPA law wouldn't have eliminated that.
A personal example -- a public health nurse showed up at my workplace because a temporary employee had been diagnosed with TB. The nurse administered a TB skin test to all of us with instructions on what to do if one had a reaction. As we were all negative that thread to the patient's contact tracing was complete. When my niece was young, three years old iirc, she tested positive for TB in a routine wellness check. Public health took over her case at that point. The family was all negative and she had yet to attend daycare. Where she acquired it could not be determined. She was medicated for about a year and x-rays confirmed no active TB. She will always test positive for TB but she is immune.
NJ authorities are currently handling the contact tracing for Trump's Thursday events. They've acquired lists of the people who were present from the Trump campaign, Republican party, and venue (Trump golf club). So far, the authorities have said that the lists are incomplete wrt to those who staffed the events. It's assumed that everyone that had been there was given a rapid test before the events and all of those would have been negative. Security around Trump is tight enough that it would be surprising if they missed anyone in the testing. The NJ authorities can recommend but not require a fourteen day quarantine for all those who were present. I suppose they can also follow up with those people over the next couple of weeks but may have no authority to require further testing and clinical monitoring. So, from a public health perspective, it's a bit casual.
The contact tracing in this instance is limited to setting Trump as the index case and all those that were present that day as the contacts. If any of those contacts were infected, it's unlikely that up until now that they are infectious, but there's not much time left before they could become infectious. IMHO a better protocol would be 1) mandatory face masks for all contacts when in the presence of anyone, including family, and not allowing anyone but co-inhabitants in the home for three weeks (the virus airborne risk) and mandatory face masks for co-inhabitants 2) a PCR test if any symptoms, including temperature elevation, develops or if no symptoms develop, PCR tests (not the crap rabid test) after seven, fourteen, and twenty-one days. With stiff fines for violations.
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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
it made reference to the fact that if one is contacted by a contact tracer, that contact tracer will not identify the person who gave their name (as someone they've interacted with/exposed to COVID).
Many reasons for that and in the best circumstances that field worker wouldn't even have access to who gave public health the contact names. A patient is more cooperative in providing names if they are assured of confidentiality. Those that are contacted are similarly assured of confidentiality for themselves and any names they supply. Some of the practices were developed back when STDs were incurable. PH contact tracers aren't needed when an individual is able to inform his/her contacts of his/her health and get them to a clinic to be checked out. When that's not an option for the patient, it becomes a more sensitive issue. S. Korea, that prides itself on having a robust contact tracing system, ran into a difficult patch a few months ago with clusters from nightclubs. They ended up having to resort to public health alerts to notify those that had been present in any of them from particular dates to get a Covid test. Never stated but easy enough to read that these were gay nightclubs.
Socially, Americans have become less tolerant of 'bad things happen,' more litigious, and more violent. So, I suppose Covid-19 contact tracing could put some patients at more risk than the virus poses, but it's probably very rare. (OTOH, if Trump knew or had good reason to suspect that he was positive and went ahead with events without wearing a mask, any victims should sue his ass.)
My example predated HIPAA. No name was given and there had been more than one temp. Once cured, it would have made no difference to being re-employed.
Understand that various government agencies can obtain medical info, and use it to contact infected people--including for COVID, TB, and other infectious diseases.
But, when I read a contact tracing online course summary, it made reference to the fact that if one is contacted by a contact tracer, that contact tracer will not identify the person who gave their name (as someone they've interacted with/exposed to COVID).
I figure that's for the protection of the infected person (who provides his list of contacts).
BTW, (from my reading) appears that laws do vary regarding how much authority state governments have when it comes to enforcing/demanding the cooperation of people given as contacts by COVID-infected/positive individuals. Not all state public health agencies/entities can issue warrants to obtain cooperation. But, some--NY and Kentucky (that I've read about, recently), can, and, already have done so.
Including putting ankle bracelets on quarantined people. (KY)
Read article about cell phone app tracing--checked our phones, and sure enough--we have a tracing program on them. It was in an app update, I suppose, since neither of us would ever knowing download such a program. (Obviously, we're not activating the program, either. We don't even use GPS.) We both have a backup flip phone--so, if every asked, I'll present them. Pretty sure you'd need an Android or Apple OS to be contact traced. (our smartphones are Androids)
Noticed your wording,
a public health nurse showed up at my workplace because 'a temporary employee' had been diagnosed with TB.
According to what I've read about COVID contact tracing guidelines, identifying the infected person--even if not using the individual's name--would likely be prohibited, today.
(assuming that the use of the term 'a temporary employee' would have conclusively identified that person to you and others in the workplace)
Have a nice weekend.
Mollie
"The leaders of this new movement are replacing traditional liberal beliefs about tolerance, free inquiry, and even racial harmony with ideas so toxic and unattractive that they eschew debate, moving straight to shaming, threats, and intimidation."
~~Matt Taibbi, The American Press Is Destroying Itself, June 12, 2020
Considering Trump was infectious at the debate and Biden was in the room with him for over an hour, neither of them wearing a mask, I think it’s a little too early to put Biden on the “dodged a bullet” list with his negative test result.
"The average incubation period is about five days," says Dr. Wafaa El-Sadr, an epidemiologist at Columbia University. That's the period of time between exposure to the virus and the development of symptoms. "[Though] it could be as short as two days. Or it could be as long as 14 days."
#14 Trump’s brand new campaign manager Bill Stepien has tested positive for #COVID19 too. (Stephen just replaced Bill He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named-And-Got-Arrested).
Kellyanne Conway – positive with mild symptoms
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6 users have voted.
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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Considering Trump was infectious at the debate and Biden was in the room with him for over an hour, neither of them wearing a mask, I think it’s a little too early to put Biden on the “dodged a bullet” list with his negative test result.
"The average incubation period is about five days," says Dr. Wafaa El-Sadr, an epidemiologist at Columbia University. That's the period of time between exposure to the virus and the development of symptoms. "[Though] it could be as short as two days. Or it could be as long as 14 days."
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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
7 feet or 12 feet is *NOT* the main risk mitigation issue. The main issue is AIRBORNE transmission if someone in the debate hall is a asymptomatic carrier—thus how much fresh air ventilation, >=6 air exchanges, available HEPA/MERV13+ filtration? #COVID19https://t.co/N83vwaoYgb
7 feet or 12 feet is *NOT* the main risk mitigation issue. The main issue is AIRBORNE transmission if someone in the debate hall is a asymptomatic carrier—thus how much fresh air ventilation, >=6 air exchanges, available HEPA/MERV13+ filtration? #COVID19https://t.co/N83vwaoYgb
7 feet or 12 feet is *NOT* the main risk mitigation issue. The main issue is AIRBORNE transmission if someone in the debate hall is a asymptomatic carrier—thus how much fresh air ventilation, >=6 air exchanges, available HEPA/MERV13+ filtration? #COVID19https://t.co/N83vwaoYgb
Comments
The interesting thing here
is that the dreaded covid can strike even the rich and powerful, almost indiscriminately. The only differences in outcome are the levels of accessable health care and preexisting conditions. The cynic in me thinks this may be a ruse being used for political purposes. Unfortunately quarrentine will not stop the twitters.
It's a hoax
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTjTaR748eg]
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
good morning Caucus 99
Bernie Sanders and the Left are starting out with in-person appearances in New Hampshire and Michigan.
This is the dual-track Biden campaign reaching public consciousness. As I've noted before, Senator Sanders has been doing web appearances supporting Biden and our candidates. Viewers have tuned in. Millions of them.
As Biden Bashed the Left, Bernie was talking to us.
It's pretty obvious, to me, at least, that this has been a highly calculated and coordinated effort to bring new (R) voters to Biden by hiding the strong connections between Bernie and Joe.
NYCVG
Very sorry I was gulled by Bernie
Worse than a sheepdog. Another faux rebellion.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
I understand
and share that sentiment.
Mostly.
But it has been challenged by what I see unfolding.
My "never Biden" has muted and my "OMG that raving lunatic in the WH has to go," response has gotten louder.
NYCVG
Why?
You know what the difference between a Biden presidency and a Trump presidency will be? Fundamentally nothing. The rhetoric might differ, and the face they try to put on it might differ, but ultimately Biden and Trump serve the same masters.
We don't have a functioning democracy now, and whether or not Trump's in office isn't going to change that. It's kind of sad that people believe a vote for Biden is anything other than a vote to hurt the 99% and further erode what little democracy exists.
Biden
might have instructed all of us to wear a mask.
NYCVG
That isn't really something to decide a vote on
though.
It's kind of sad you're willing to exchange a basic functioning government that isn't hostile to its people for basic health advice.
There is one difference. An important one.
Biden will be sold, and accepted by many, as being the solution to what just happened for the past 4 years, which is being sold as the problem with this country. "Hooray! Our long national nightmare is over!" will be the enthusiastically imbibed message, and all dissenting opinions will be squashed with a variant of "Do you want Trump, then? Would you like Trump to come back? Guess you must be a racist (sexist/homophobe/transphobe/xenophobe)."
The upshot of this will be more heinous policies excused and normalized by a process similar to money-laundering. Biden (or Kamala, or the enemies of Trump) will be the ones doing these policies, so therefore they can't be bad policies, because Biden, Kamala, or the enemies of Trump are the good guys. If you think different, you must be a bad guy. Therefore, if you think the policies are bad, you must be a bad guy. The focus will never be on the policies, or the people being hurt by them, which are the point.
Sort of like "this money is being made by this perfectly innocent laundromat (or restaurant, or bank)" therefore it can't be dirty money made from crime. All you have to do is pass the ugly policy through Democratic hands and it's clean forever.
Since it's policies, either the presence of bad ones or the absence of good ones, that kill and hurt people (at least as far as government is concerned), the result will be making things much worse. It's harder to excuse children in cages when Trump is president. Once Biden becomes "President" those children will disappear from public knowledge. Anyone who tries to keep them in the public eye will, necessarily, be a critic of the Biden administration, and thus will be smeared as a terrible Trump-lover, Putin puppet, whatever. And I bet, like torture, once the policy is sufficiently laundered--or erased from public view--it will be normalized and no longer a topic of conversation. With all the horrible things Democrats have said about Trump--an existential threat, a Manchurian candidate, etc--nobody has mentioned that he has the following normalized presidential powers: to assassinate anybody he wants to, torture anybody he wants to, and put anybody in prison for the rest of their life. Why have these things not been brought up? Why because torture, extrajudicial assassination, and indefinite detention are now normal. It's OK that Trump has the power to spy on all of us too.
I wonder what will be considered OK for the President to do by the time the next Republican enters that office?
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
The only way the 'never Biden' calls would become muted
is because people are starting the Joe Biden record amnesia dance.
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
no amnesia
I see where Trump's hubris and insanity about Covid has gotten us.
NYCVG
while its fun to blame
trump for covid our whole for profit medical system is the elephant in the room. Its hardly shocking it would not be up to dealing with covid. As for the masks from day one i am skeptical of that as the one answer, far too many other variables created this shit show. And democrats bitch about masks, trump, blah blah but do nothing other than point their corrupt and greedy fingers at anything or anyone to cover for just how bad things are and their blatant part in that. This whole damned thing being used once again to entrench the two party team sport mentality is depressing as hell. Sickening. Enraging of course.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
Not just fun, accurate
I posted a rough calculation last week or so. If the US had fatalities at the reported world average rate, we would have lost 40,000 lives, which is bad enough, but we can lay the extra 160,000 deaths right at Rump's feet.
Even major financial press organs were estimating that the US "economy" ( be it living wage or investor profits) would have saved trillions if the administration had followed standard epidemiological procedures of presenting consistent messaging informed by best science.
Even Chamber Of Commerce, Rockefeller Republican type capitalists wanted a more orderly attack on the pandemic.
Even Obomber passed on a detailed plan for coping with pandemic. Even Obomber had a team of epidemiologists in China performing epidemic surveillance. He may havebeen evil, but he wasn't incompetent.
Community spread was guaranteed when thousands of USians were brought back from China without quarantine or tracing.
Laws are in place which would have enabled the gov to order industries to start churning out large quantities of needed PPE right away, instead of making States to compete for limited resources in a libertarian free-for-all, with Kush snatching the football away.
And yes, the criminally backward and exploitative US medical system has and is costing lives. I've had sufficient horror stories of my encounters, like managing family end-of-life care, that still costs me sleep. But even that broken system could have functioned WAY better than what we have seen.
We can only compare the US to other right-wing-thug countries like Brazil and India and the UK. Which, incidentally, the UK has a functioning National Health, but they STILL went down the mortuary hole, much like the US did. One article said these countries suffer from a nationalist sense of "exceptionalism" as a common factor. Well, one result of that attitude is to have a bigoted boot-licker leader. Add in US unreality tv addiction and we have Rump. And Q. And all the folks whose "brains are squirming like a toad".
I do directly blame the Rump crime syndicate for most US COVID fatalities. And poverty. And fear. And it ain't fun. It hurts.
Those 160,000 deaths
don't make it OK for me to support the prison labor ticket. The fact that the prison labor ticket is being sold as a blow for anti-racism just shows that we have, as Margaret Kimberley of Black Agenda Report said, reached bottom. And it makes it all the more imperative that I not support it. The most dangerous racist institution in our country, the one responsible for wrecking, and ending, the most black lives, is an integral part of the Democratic ticket. The fact that they put Michael Bloomberg on stage at their convention should be enough to allay any idea that this is an anti-racist ticket or party. So should the cozy way the Democrats have been wrapping their arms around the former members of the George W. Bush administration. Therefore, they are asking America to believe that this ticket, redolent of racism, is actually what anti-racism looks like. As long as America believes that, there will be no functioning movement against racism that will not be hamstrung at every turn by that misconception.
We've reached a place where liberals and progressives have started defending candidates who support and, in one case, helped engineer, the current iteration of the racist prison system. Also candidates who support, and sometimes have engineered, a brutal response to immigrants from the global south. Also candidates who support extrajudicial assassination, torture, indefinite detention and warrantless mass surveillance. Also candidates who support a state of constant warfare directed not by assessment of threat but by an assessment of profit. 160,000 dead here are a drop in the bucket of the dead of the Middle East and Africa
The truth is that both of these options are abominable and barbaric beyond words, and any system that asks us to choose between them should be torn down.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Reaching bottom
I think it wouldn’t be crazy to suggest we’ve reached a full court gaslighting operation.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Who said anything about Donorcrats?
except for the observation that Obomber was evil but not incompetent?
Different issue.
A few facts
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLST_Kmjopo]
Infection Fatality Rate for persons age 75 shown at 4.2%. Risk factor of obesity somewhat offset by being a non-smoker, non-drinker and good health care. The first lady is, of course, much younger and not overweight, in all likelihood she'll be fine.
Huffpost reports
So I don't think we'll be seeing President Pelosi any time soon. Still, the odds were exactly zero last week and a fraction of a percent today, so I guess we can't rule it out.
"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone
Gag me with a spoon!
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
I was awoken this morning by a message on my phone
from friends who simply commented "maybe there is a God". I didn't know what they were referring to until I saw the news. On Facebook, relatives and friends are all celebrating the fact that Trump got the virus. It's all giving me a stomach ache.
I don't wish Covid on ANYONE, and I am embarrassed and upset to see this kind of behavior from people who consider themselves moral liberal/progressives.
On a similar note, I got a notice from the Secular Coalition of America that there is a new group called Humanists For Biden. It's run by Greg Epstein the Harvard based humanist chaplain.
I replied to the email asking what it was about Biden's record as Senator, etc. that they feel fits with humanistic values. Don't think I'll hear back.
The world has gone off the deep end for sure when an atheist like me has to lecture people on morals.
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
Don't knock yourself for being an atheist.
Morality and religion have a long and tumultuous relationship and they seldom seem to actually speak the same language. Many religious people understand atheism for what it often is as this little piece I keep lying around says:
It has provided a hearty seven course meal to chew on for a few friends over the years when atheism comes up.
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
Thank you so much for sharing this.
I think it is interesting that these stories involve a rabbi figure. One would hope that eventually that rabbi would apply this understanding to how God behaves in the Old Testament stories and come to the conclusion that God himself is quite immoral.
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
I’ve had more enlightened discussions with Jewish people
than any other religion. With few exceptions I’ll take a rabbi to an evangelical of the flavor I’ve been surrounded by most of my life. For a Catholic country the people here are extremely laid back about the whole religion thing. They don’t care what religion, or none, as long as you’re not a dick. In my opinion DBAD should be a religion.
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
Guess you never met an orthodox rabbi.
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
I have and once spoke to one who was not what I expected.
Generalizations usually fail. We all have squirrels amongst us but they’re not always easy to identify until we give them a chance to show who they are.
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
I am sure that one can meet a nice person who lives in the
midst of a community whose beliefs and practices are misogynist to the max, but it doesn't alleviate the problem for the women.
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
At a friend's funeral
The only Jewish funeral I ever attended. I was impressed with the part where we all had a little bag of Israeli soil and tossed it into the grave. I added a very low "Requium im Pacem" in leiu of the Hebrew phrases that I couldn't say. Was very impressed with the Rabbi. He spoke breifly in French to my freind (a French jew) and narrowd his eyes and said something in a Slavic language another of my freinds. He has an English last name. Turns out his family is from Ukraine or Belorus, I forget which. Then he turned to me and asked "Where does your family come from?" I smiled and said "Sicily!" Damned if he didn't say something that sounded like the Southern Italian dialect! I don't speak it, but I've heard a lot. Then he said, "You're not Jewish are you?" I admitted it, and he said, "It's okay." I still have the little head covering that the funeral home gave me to wear. I can turn my head and see it now.
It was a good sendoff. Even though I couldn't understand the prayers at all. I just lowered my head and mumbled.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Coincidentally, a few days ago there was a news story ...
about a "Green" way of burial. Instead of cremating the body, it is liquefied with alkali and then flushed down the city sewer! I told my wife. "Do what you please with my body, bury it, burn it and scatter it, but please don't flush me down the toilet! She promised.
Strange things we desire. I've promised her many times, "No Cadillac hearse." She hates Cadillac people. So it's a Lincoln, or, as I saw at one funeral, a Toyota SUV.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
A couple things I've seen
One thing is you can have your ashes infused (?) into a marbled glass orb. The other is putting your ashes in a planter with a tree seed. I think both are pretty cool.
This shit is bananas.
I think so too, Daenerys n/t
Teddy bears
My granddaughter's twin sister's ashes are in a teddy bear. She only made it to 20 weeks; she passed before she was born.
They gave my daughter a catalog of all the things they could do with her ashes. Ashes aren't just for urns anymore, they can be infused into works of art.
What would have happened if you had declined to wear
the head covering? If you are not Jewish, then you wearing the head covering would be insulting to Yahweh.
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
I think Yahweh woukl understand
that I was showing respect.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Yeah, well I couldn't do it.
Just one full reading of the Old Testament made me realize what a terrible god he is....was.
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
I've had more fun talking to Muslims,
, than I ever could have imagined.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
Yusef Islam (Cat Stevens)
has some very interesting YouTube interview videos. He approaches living his life from a religious point of view but the message he offers is one of peace, hope, and inclusion. I can get behind that whether it comes from a religious point of view or not or anyone. The message, how we treat each other, and how we live our lives is important while the "team" we follow, if any, is not.
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
Um... Cat Stevens called for the death of
Salman Rushdie for writing The Satanic Verses.
Yeah.... a real "peace train" kind of guy.
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
Religion and politics
The god bit reminded me of Ursula Le Guin's short story Birthday of the World. The gods in her story were defined in arbitrary ways. Sort of like the kings of yore and heads of state today. Even the aliens became gods for awhile. Seems the people needed to have absolute rule. Governed by belief. All else was petty power plays.
imagine there is no God who could help, and say
'I will help you.' Pretty good starting place, I think.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
I couldn't agree more.
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
Thank you for that little piece vtcc,
I'm saving it.
We just have different morality
Sorry, atheist here as well, and someone causing suffering in the world--who promotes "evil"--why shouldn't we celebrate their demise? Otherwise, aren't you in effect supporting evil (or suffering or however you want to categorize it). Hate to go all Godwin, but if someone didn't want Hitler dead, they (in my mind) are evil.
Now, that doesn't mean at all that I support killing in any way. But, if someone suffers their comeuppance, I'm not gonna shed a tear. Might even celebrate.
Feel free to find that cold and heartless if you'd like. But, evil removed from this world makes the world a better and more livable place. Everyone dies eventually anyway. Don't understand why people get so anxious and upset about it. Might as well be sooner for those who introduce so much suffering.
Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I respect your position and morality a lot, actually. It's very noble. Just wonder if as an unintended side effect you're wishing ill on the world and further deaths.
I'm sure some will celebrate when I leave this mortal coil. Who really cares? I've done a ton of good thus far (in my opinion) helping others out.
Who gets to decide when someone crosses that line into
such evil that they deserve to suffer or die? I don't get any satisfaction out of a celebration of Trump getting sick, especially when you realize that the Democrats have enabled his agenda at every turn, or when you realize that he has tried to get us out of Iraq and Afghanistan and the Dems have blocked him. Who are the evils players here? What Hitler deserved in a moral society was capture, a trial and imprisonment, not torture and death at the hands of a mob. When we wish ill on others, we lower ourselves to the level of evil and depress civilization.
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
my two liberal
friends seem ecstatic today at the news, complete with a cute meme. Sigh. I find myself angry at them for that today, although not surprised at all. Seems very repugnant like to me, but I'm just a purist I guess, since I find it hardly great news. Maybe we'll get president pence after all, won't that be a nice kick in the ass.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
Situational ethics and principles -
how nice. Not.
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
For me, it is not about what Trump (or anyone) "deserves"
That Trump would come down sick with "a hoax" -- that is, a virus that he has insisted for months is not serious, and possibly not even real -- is simply a natural consequence of his own decisions and (in)action.
It matters not what anyone wishes would happen, or if some people are happy about what can be viewed as a demonstration of karma, or the concept that 'what goes around comes around' when Trump's own choices, and his deceitful denial of the seriousness of the virus, have certainly contributed to if not directly caused many thousands of deaths as his supporters eschew masks and other basic precautions because of his words and behavior.
Personally my reaction to the news this morning was to laugh and then text my husband: "LOL! Trump has tested positive for the hoax virus!" What I hope is that the Trump-supporting dumb ass who owns the shop where my spouse works, and his office-manager/girlfriend, and her mother, and all of their Trumpster friends who refuse to take it seriously (no masks, making fun of people who do wear one, close-contact social gatherings just to show off and celebrate their contempt for the very idea of the virus) all get a big loud wake-up call. If Trump gets really sick or even dies from it, then maybe they will rethink their idiocy. And I would absolutely be happy about that.
It could literally save countless lives if he did suffer and die from it. My wishes or feelings make no difference whatsoever, of course, and I refuse to feel shamed or guilty because I find it amusing when his lies come back to bite him, or because I feel hopeful that this turn of events might save lives.
I'm an atheist too, as you know, which for me makes it even less about wishes or what anyone 'deserves' but simply about how things work. Consequences happen. In this situation, that could be a good thing.
My question is since when are we not all responsible
for making our own health care decisions? People get Covid for lots of reasons. They could have gotten it because they listening to Trump or Fauci (masks aren't necessary)or Nancy "forget the virus and come to Chinatown to shop" Pelosi. If Gov. Cuomo got it, would we say its payback for putting elderly people back into nursing homes where they caught it and died?
I doubt that your spouse's boss and all the yahoos that won't wear masks will change one iota in their convictions about masks if Trump bites the dust from it. If they do, they sure won't confess to it.
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
Well, anyone who wants to feel sorry for Trump can do so
I do not feel sorry for him. He is just as personally responsible for his decisions as anyone else. He chose to lie about the virus not being serious, he chose to pretend it isn't real, he chose to take the risks he took. So he predictably got the virus. So what? We are supposed to cry over him getting it now? Why? I seriously don't get it.
The people I am referring to who expose my husband (and therefore me) every day to getting this virus due to their recklessness, do so solely based on their trump-worship. Sure, my husband and I have chosen to take the risk of him keeping his job, so that we do not lose our home and our income, and we are responsible for that decision, so if we die from the virus then I suppose we will deserve it.
Nonetheless, fuck Trump. That is all.
Exactly My View
Couldn't have said it better. But, maybe I just like to celebrate too much. My life may be too happy and hedonistic.
I didn't say I feel sorry for him.
And I certainly don't "cry" for him. I just think that the frenzied dancing and celebration and loathsome remarks that are all over social media posted by mostly Dems is not something I want to participate in. I think it's so..... well, let's say "Christian" in a way. It's that meme that people deserve cosmic punishment for their sins.
What if Joe Biden got the virus after whispering on stage with Anderson Cooper, masks off, during the CNN townhall? Would we all say he got what he deserved for his behavior?
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
I would! n/t
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Yes!
That frickin molester and war monger. What he did to Anita Hill. His fracking crusades.
Honestly, I'll cry tears of sadness when Jimmy Carter passes. Every other president who is alive, I will celebrate their passing because most of what they've done is evil and killed multitudes. All are guilty of war crimes.
Your old leftist conspiracy monger here
Maybe this is the CIA's October Surprise 2020 version.
That’s the CT I’m most inclined to suspect.
You mean COVID-19 V3.x
or simply a strategically placed super-spreader to help thin the herd that currently works @ 1600 PA Ave? I do not find either inconceivable. Spooks plan for all sorts of remediation options.
But the most probable explanation is much simpler: carelessness and a showman’s bravado offer no protection from COVID.
“ …and when we destroy nature, we diminish our capacity to sense the divine,and understand who God is, and what our own potential is and duties are as human beings.- RFK jr. 8/26/2024
Hoax
Trump trying desparately to avoid another "debate".
A debate to him is like a mirror to a vampire.
He is fully exposed for what he really is.
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
I have been surprised Trump didn't
Get Covid before now. He has not been careful.
I hope he hasn't infected White House staff members, many of whom are African Americans and paid low wages.
I am floored too and I assume the whole of the US is as well
Some take away from Democracy NOW
[video:https://youtu.be/XcTxwqcwlR0]
[video:https://youtu.be/5tsSY27I3iU]
Naomi has strong words here, listen for yourself.
https://www.euronews.com/live
paranoia strikes deep
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Is that like
calling in sick to work when you have other things on your agenda besides work?
Exactly
You've heard of the blue flu, when the entire police department called in sick when they either lost their contract or were too hungover to clock in? Well, this smells like the orange pandemic panic to me.
It sure is convenient,
, for a whole host of reasons. He is loosing support among the older folks who are unhappy with his response to COVID (oh the irony). It could be the issue that causes him to loose the election. Perhaps his bosses have asked him to step aside for Pence.
Biden tests negative
Biden tests negative for COVID-19 after potential exposure during Trump debate
"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone
I would expect they will test daily for a while
2-3 days is pretty early to have a viral load that the tests can reliably detect. If I was in Biden’s situation I would not feel out of the woods until I was negative 5-8 days post exposure.
“ …and when we destroy nature, we diminish our capacity to sense the divine,and understand who God is, and what our own potential is and duties are as human beings.- RFK jr. 8/26/2024
Biden & the WH staff have been
tested daily for months.
Interesting from Eric Feigl-Ding
IOW - the tests for Hicks were negative until AFTER she was recognizably ill. On average from infection to being ill is five days. That would set her infection back to last Friday or Saturday.
Is Biden real? Or a video construct?
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
I think
you're on to something. He might as well be a video construct.
You have to be human to catch covid-19
or a bat. Oh, wait!
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Trump being sent to Walter Reed Hospital
Trump being sent to Walter Reed Hospital for COVID-19 treatment
Probably just getting a head start on his annual physical. What tests are they unable to do in the White House infirmary? Maybe CT scans for fluid buildup in the lungs? Next few days? That's more than a few tests.
"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone
No sympathy here.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
This shit is bananas.
He got the rockin' pneumonia,
got the boogie-woogie flu.
Walter Reed, eh? Guess he ain't fakin' it. Seems to be a spreader event. WH journos, Melons, rethugs, staff, maybe funders. At least Barron seems safe so far (he doesn't touch children, I think).
After all his years of mockery of people who are sick, weak, not-white, and disabled, the chickens come home to roost. Mask it or casket!
Not that I would ever, ever celebrate ill fortune to a lying thieving scheming murderous scumbag.
Even if he is just a symptom. /snark
But yet again, he succeeds in controlling the headlines... He's just dying for attention!
What if he really does die - not for attention, but of the
corona virus?
I wished we had the 'good doctor' who was fired from C99 to give his evaluation. And then there was another doctor, whom he got in fist fights with. I would like his opinions as well.
It's interesting to realize who has left this site behind. So sad, but what do I understand?
Nada.
https://www.euronews.com/live
I would prefer he survives
Long enough to testify, implicate, and go to jail. I hope he doesn't get medically Epstein'd.
And yes, I do miss some of the old posters I got into long conversations with. Things seem a bit more twitterish these days.
twitterish, chatty, facebookish, and fake-ishy, but
every voice counts the same here.
edited: As I am not on twitter and never use it or read it, I was never using facebook and don't know anything about its advantages and disadvantages and I do not lie, so my capability to recognize lies of others is minimal.
I really do not care about any of those platforms and am glad that others watch out on those platforms and post here what they think is worth to be posted and mentioned.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Senators Lee and Tillis tested positive too
https://twitter.com/ap/status/1312219427866370049?s=21
It’ll be interesting to see if this puts a monkey wrench in the SCOTUS confirmation hearings.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Maybe Judge Barrett
is the one infecting everyone? Did she meet with those two by chance? I don't know when that photo was taken (in the tweet you link to), but if it was in recent days, it kind of makes you go "Hmmmmmmm".
Both were at the WH Saturday
Barrett announcement event. Lee and Barrett also met on Tuesday.
Reportedly Barrett tested positive some weeks ago but since then has had numerous negative tests. Barrett probably isn't the WH cluster index case or cases. Has to have been someone that would have been infectious by Saturday -- not likely Hicks or Trump -- and traveled on AF-1 late Saturday to Pennsylvania.
To add complexity - Cleveland City Hall:
This cluster would exclude those that traveled to Cleveland on AF-1, arriving around 4:00 pm.
Judge Barrett apparently had COVID-19 over the summer
and has since recovered.
Amy Coney Barrett Had COVID-19 in Recent Months, Friends of Supreme Court Pick Say
.
So it's probably unlikely that she is the one who infected so many people at the event. Not to say it's impossible. There is so much that remains unknown about... well, everything. Maybe someday we will find out more.
Add:
Trump’s brand new campaign manager Bill Stepien has tested positive for #COVID19 too. (Stephen just replaced Bill He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named-And-Got-Arrested).
Kellyanne Conway – positive with mild symptoms
Marie, question - CNN is talking about demanding
contact tracing info. I never got around to it, but was thinking about taking an online contact tracing course (they're free).
Anyhoo, from what I've read, would think that it's against privacy laws to release this info. When I was checking out the courses, read where 'tracers' are not allowed to even inform anyone of who named them as a contact (when tracing). I'm 'guessing' it's intended to protect people from possible retribution--from those that they may have infected. Seems as though it would violate HIPAA, too.
Have you seen anything about this policy?
It puzzles me that several CNN so-called experts wouldn't be knowledgeable of proper contact tracing protocols. (which may differ, somewhat, by state--dunno) At any rate, they've literally spent hours trying to figure out 'who' was first infected.
Have a good one.
Mollie
"The leaders of this new movement are replacing traditional liberal beliefs about tolerance, free inquiry, and even racial harmony with ideas so toxic and unattractive that they eschew debate, moving straight to shaming, threats, and intimidation."
~~Matt Taibbi, The American Press Is Destroying Itself, June 12, 2020
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Mollie, when it comes to infectious diseases
the state has the legal authority to require disclosure of known contacts and to contact those contacts and impose whatever tests and restrictions that are deemed necessary under the circumstances. HIPPA law wouldn't have eliminated that.
A personal example -- a public health nurse showed up at my workplace because a temporary employee had been diagnosed with TB. The nurse administered a TB skin test to all of us with instructions on what to do if one had a reaction. As we were all negative that thread to the patient's contact tracing was complete. When my niece was young, three years old iirc, she tested positive for TB in a routine wellness check. Public health took over her case at that point. The family was all negative and she had yet to attend daycare. Where she acquired it could not be determined. She was medicated for about a year and x-rays confirmed no active TB. She will always test positive for TB but she is immune.
NJ authorities are currently handling the contact tracing for Trump's Thursday events. They've acquired lists of the people who were present from the Trump campaign, Republican party, and venue (Trump golf club). So far, the authorities have said that the lists are incomplete wrt to those who staffed the events. It's assumed that everyone that had been there was given a rapid test before the events and all of those would have been negative. Security around Trump is tight enough that it would be surprising if they missed anyone in the testing. The NJ authorities can recommend but not require a fourteen day quarantine for all those who were present. I suppose they can also follow up with those people over the next couple of weeks but may have no authority to require further testing and clinical monitoring. So, from a public health perspective, it's a bit casual.
The contact tracing in this instance is limited to setting Trump as the index case and all those that were present that day as the contacts. If any of those contacts were infected, it's unlikely that up until now that they are infectious, but there's not much time left before they could become infectious. IMHO a better protocol would be 1) mandatory face masks for all contacts when in the presence of anyone, including family, and not allowing anyone but co-inhabitants in the home for three weeks (the virus airborne risk) and mandatory face masks for co-inhabitants 2) a PCR test if any symptoms, including temperature elevation, develops or if no symptoms develop, PCR tests (not the crap rabid test) after seven, fourteen, and twenty-one days. With stiff fines for violations.
Doesn't he have some hot babe on his staff?
And didn't she also test positive? Who infected who? I'm remembering Clinton here?
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Are you referring the Hope Hicks?
('hot babe' seems a bit demeaning and TrumpSpeak in this instance. She's very attractive and was a model when she was younger, but she did get a college degree.)
Regardless, she was the first person on the Trump team to become ill. By sometime Wednesday afternoon. They have been relying on a daily rapid test and are claiming that she tested negative Wednesday morning. The story is a bit murky after that. There may have been another test that afternoon that was positive, but the claim is that a positive test result was only released on Thursday shortly before Trump left for NJ. All of this could be true: negative Wednesday morning, positive rapid test Wednesday afternoon, and the slower PCR test administered Wed evening with the results issued on Thursday. (We seem to be living and dying by these tests which IMHO is a huge mistake. Temperature checks may be as good or better than the rapid test.)
If Hicks were infected on Saturday at the Barret shindig, she developed physical symptoms more quickly than average and with one exception that of the others in attendance that have subsequently tested positive. The exception is a WHCA journalist who also became ill on Wednesday. Possible if both are heavy, daily exercise devotees. Or they were infected earlier than Saturday, but early enough to have been infectious by Saturday? It does appear that someone at that Saturday event was infectious and infected others. If true, that person may also have been on AF-1 for the trip to PA that evening. So far, only Trump and Hicks have been identified as present at both and subsequently tested positive. The timeline, as currently known, doesn't suggest to me that either were infectious on Saturday.
By Tuesday evening, very likely that Hicks was infectious and Trump may have been as well. By Thursday, highly likely that Trump was infectious, but not yet known if he infected anyone on AF-1 or at the NJ events.
The bottom line is that all of this could have been avoided if team Trump always wore masks when in the presence of others.
Thanks, Marie. Let me clarify
a point that I was intending to make, though.
Understand that various government agencies can obtain medical info, and use it to contact infected people--including for COVID, TB, and other infectious diseases.
But, when I read a contact tracing online course summary, it made reference to the fact that if one is contacted by a contact tracer, that contact tracer will not identify the person who gave their name (as someone they've interacted with/exposed to COVID).
I figure that's for the protection of the infected person (who provides his list of contacts).
BTW, (from my reading) appears that laws do vary regarding how much authority state governments have when it comes to enforcing/demanding the cooperation of people given as contacts by COVID-infected/positive individuals. Not all state public health agencies/entities can issue warrants to obtain cooperation. But, some--NY and Kentucky (that I've read about, recently), can, and, already have done so.
Including putting ankle bracelets on quarantined people. (KY)
Read article about cell phone app tracing--checked our phones, and sure enough--we have a tracing program on them. It was in an app update, I suppose, since neither of us would ever knowing download such a program. (Obviously, we're not activating the program, either. We don't even use GPS.) We both have a backup flip phone--so, if every asked, I'll present them. Pretty sure you'd need an Android or Apple OS to be contact traced. (our smartphones are Androids)
Noticed your wording,
According to what I've read about COVID contact tracing guidelines, identifying the infected person--even if not using the individual's name--would likely be prohibited, today.
(assuming that the use of the term 'a temporary employee' would have conclusively identified that person to you and others in the workplace)
Have a nice weekend.
Mollie
"The leaders of this new movement are replacing traditional liberal beliefs about tolerance, free inquiry, and even racial harmony with ideas so toxic and unattractive that they eschew debate, moving straight to shaming, threats, and intimidation."
~~Matt Taibbi, The American Press Is Destroying Itself, June 12, 2020
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
This sounds right:
Many reasons for that and in the best circumstances that field worker wouldn't even have access to who gave public health the contact names. A patient is more cooperative in providing names if they are assured of confidentiality. Those that are contacted are similarly assured of confidentiality for themselves and any names they supply. Some of the practices were developed back when STDs were incurable. PH contact tracers aren't needed when an individual is able to inform his/her contacts of his/her health and get them to a clinic to be checked out. When that's not an option for the patient, it becomes a more sensitive issue. S. Korea, that prides itself on having a robust contact tracing system, ran into a difficult patch a few months ago with clusters from nightclubs. They ended up having to resort to public health alerts to notify those that had been present in any of them from particular dates to get a Covid test. Never stated but easy enough to read that these were gay nightclubs.
Socially, Americans have become less tolerant of 'bad things happen,' more litigious, and more violent. So, I suppose Covid-19 contact tracing could put some patients at more risk than the virus poses, but it's probably very rare. (OTOH, if Trump knew or had good reason to suspect that he was positive and went ahead with events without wearing a mask, any victims should sue his ass.)
My example predated HIPAA. No name was given and there had been more than one temp. Once cured, it would have made no difference to being re-employed.
Senator Ron Johnson tests positive as well
Considering Trump was infectious at the debate and Biden was in the room with him for over an hour, neither of them wearing a mask, I think it’s a little too early to put Biden on the “dodged a bullet” list with his negative test result.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
??????
All the pictures I've seen on the internet show both of them wearing masks.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
They were not wearing masks at the debate
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
No information that Johnson was at the debate,
but he may have been at the WH Barrett event.
Politico
The positive tests came after Trump chided Biden during the debate for wearing a mask.
Implies Biden was wearing a m,ask. I try not to look at trump's mouth flapping. What an ugly S.O.B.
If he didn't have money he would be childless.
The TV "news" may have been showing non-debate shots. I didn't watch it live.
I've never seen Biden on TV without a mask.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Video of the 2020 Presidential Debate
Perhaps Trump was chiding Biden for wearing a mask in general, and not necessarily at the moment he made the comment?
Here is a video of the 2020 Presidential debates, and as you can see, they are not wearing masks.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
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