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Propagating Propaganda II

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We generally use the analytical part of our brain. However, when a jarring or shocking piece of information is presented the brain moves into the limbic system. The limbic system structures are involved in many of our emotions and motivations, particularly those that are related to survival such as fear and anger. This mechanism is used in advertising and propaganda to trigger the “sleeper effect”.

These two brain systems store information differently. One stays around (in long-term memory) and the other fades (the emotional part). This process is called the discounting cue. This implies that the brain can be manipulated into remembering false statements by using the ‘discounting cue’, by using emotional triggers to create memory distortions in long-term memory. The sleeper effect has been widely studied since the initial study by Hovland in the 1940s.

Something that Hovland and his team ignored that is important is why over time, the discounting cue becomes less accessible than the message even when both pieces are similarly effective at the onset. To answer this question Greenwald, Pratkanis, and their team implemented a study to identify the conditions by which the sleeper effect does and does not occur. … Pratkanis and his team proposed a modified forgetting hypothesis, which suggested that the sleeper effect occurs because the effect of the message and the cues decay at different rates. Based on this suggestion the message and the cue act like two communications operating in opposite directions. The sleeper effect emerges when the effect of these communications is about equal, promptly following message exposure, but the effect of the cue later decays more rapidly than that of the message.

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So, my query is, how does this apply to the current manipulation of the message around the protests and police containment thereof. Just thinking out loud here, if you will. Again, I have more questions than answers.

Sending in troops into Portland was definitely a shock to the world and brought many more people out on the streets. Trumps “message” was that order needed to be restored; that he was trying to help; that Portland was besieged by anarchists and a violent mob.

This “message” has been repeated with each new, mostly peaceful protest. What does the general public remember - peaceful protests or violent mobs? Do they remember the violence of the federal agents? Certainly, Trump’s base believes his "story". How many people outside that base believe it? And without question, a great number of people on the left and in the Black and Brown communities do not and will not because they are using data that is based in reality not in emotion. Which, by the way is the only way that the sleeper effect does not stick.

These kind of shock tactics, verbal and physical, have been escalating. What will the next act be?

In the meantime, we are still ignoring the climate crisis and the destruction of the biosphere, all the while exacerbating the pandemic and ignoring racial injustice.

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Right, and the political Kriminal KCharade Kontinues.

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The thread is open

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This is to say that this very thread is open for any and all comments about anything and everything. It is your Open Thread. It is a vessel from which your wisdom can help, heal or humor.

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Lookout's picture

Though we had several hours (16+) of rain from Sally, we only have a little more than an inch in the gauge this morning. We were on the northern fringe and escaped the flooding rains they had in S. Alabama (20+ inches). It was a rain we needed and the last in sight for at least a week. Have not been down to the garden yet, but I bet the young plants are happy. I'll need to reapply the Bt to deter the cabbage loopers. I'm careful to keep it away from the parsley where swallowtail caterpillars are growing. Insect damage is worse in the fall, but I'm glad we have some insects as they disappear.

People choose the message they want to hear these days...peaceful protest of police violence vs violent Antifa rioters. Which side are you on? This extends to mask wearing in my neck of the woods....a sign of trumpeteering to not wear masks...and they are mostly trumpeteers. We're lucky to have c99 to filter some of the propaganda.

Saw there's at least cooler temps predicted in the west and even some rain in OR and WA. Maybe that will help with the fires.

Treasure every day.

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

enhydra lutris's picture

@Lookout
a bit of overnight drizzle in Castro Valley, which is "East Bay", don't know about South Bay (down closer to magi) and North Bay (wine country) or even SF.

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

magiamma's picture

@Lookout @Lookout
people seem to hear what they want. I find it interesting that it is possible to imprint information. I have confidence that it is happening, that it is used by the politicians. I wonder still how much is done purposefully. More food for thought.

Here it is both cooler and less smokey. Oregon is cooler is some places with promise of rain to come. Hope that it arrives.

Take good care and treasure every moment, indeed. I am continually surprised that I am still okay and alive. Treasure on... Lol

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That's what my backyard neighbors are doing this weekend, going back up to Donner Lake for some rest and relaxation for them and teenage kid plus friends. I am going to hang out with their dog Kona and hope nothing catches fire or blows up while they're away again.

Nobody in Cloverdale ever says anything about antifa or protests or much except what is right in front of each face every day. There were a couple of demos in the plaza, one for BLM and one for the cops. There are military banners all over the streets downtown, it is part of some paid program for $250 you get your kids uniformed face put on a banner. Monuments to 9/11 and war are all around. Reminders, constant reminders. I like to imagine John Lennon on a banner, Malcom X, Mohamed Ali, Judi Bari, Eugene Debs, Harriet Tubman, Julian Assange, Chelsea Manning, Edward Snowden... where are the Pomo elders? Imagine.

Sonoma County winery faces record $172,000 fine for alleged vineyard work violations

Skipstone Ranch winery produces about 15,000 cases of wine a year. The winery offers biannual releases to “collector members” of its wine club and sells its vintages through select stores nationwide for about $70 a bottle.

Read the entire notice of violation here (PDF - portable document format)

Diner, the owner, is a tech entrepreneur and billionaire who founded a light-based communications platform he eventually sold to Nortel Networks for $3.25 billion. On the website of his current employer, Sigma Partners, where Diner is a managing partner, his biographical note calls out Fahri’s Sonoma County business dealings, including Skipstone Ranch, “a sustainable wine and olive oil estate in California’s Sonoma County.”

Look at the photos of the damage over there it is so typical, the over-planting of an inedible mono crop. Since Bottle Shock every asshole on the planet thinks they can come here and turn this place in to France via bulldozer. Cave dwellers call that a "sustainable wine and olive oil estate", I don't think so. Wine-grape plantations also infested OR and WA long ago, it's a disease with no cure. "It's Chinatown, Jake", water wars are here. It is the new moon in vertigo and I am still thrashing about news headlines, same as it ever was. $172,000? Wah. Look at the burn scars around every reservoir nearby, how does that make me feel? Not very nice.

good luck

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@eyo

There is also this sort of situation:

CASTRO VALLEY — A small-time vintner’s use of volunteer workers has put him out of business after the state squeezed him like a late-summer grape for $115,000 in fines — and sent a chill through the wine industry.

San Jose Mercury News

Apparently, use of volunteers was once common, especially for smaller vinyards...

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Dawn's Meta's picture

@Blue Republic to harvest is common. As is village-wide picking and processing. xyz Wine Villages means it's coop wine blended from various local vineyards. Some can be quite good.

There's something wrong with the way the law is set up. Perchance a boon for the biggies???

These guys were what Oregonians call garage vintners. Small batch, small bottling.Wow.

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A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.

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magiamma's picture

@Dawn's Meta
started in garages. When i grew up in Oregon there were none. Then they moved east of Portland and further. I wonder how they will fare with all this. Take good care.

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magiamma's picture

@eyo
It's a cluster and there's no way out that I can see. Keep working in my garden. At least I have some control over that. Mold wars, though. Guess that's the joy of being close to the coast. Bioswale is coming along. Still a pain in the butt to work with these folks. Have to supervise. Good problem to have really. I will have a bioswale. I can have a bioswale. Very lucky. I remember this guy came over to talk to my partner some years ago and ask me how I was and I said omg so many problems with the house. He said my god woman you have a house. Right. Never forget that. I have a house. As my friend Ernestina said when I was working with her on Sanctuary, use your privilege to help. Money? Have it? Give it. Time? have it? give it. Critical thinking? Have it? Give it. Just saying. In 2016 the world came to California to help with the Bernie campaign. The poor, the ragged, the hungry. We found em places to stay, fed them and we all worked together. Fucking far out. The best. k, then, do take good care and keep on keepin on.

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@magiamma smile, that is the second thing I did. The first thing I did when the infected lump exited my jawbone was to start yapping out loud online again, steam vent style. There is so much to be grateful for, I lose control of my mind too often, lose focus of the goods all around. Rats.

Right now there is brand new rescue dog energy occupying the moment, we are like two peas in a pod. Two neurotic peas, LOL. Her people are essential workers and I feel happy to help them a little, honored he even asked me 'cause Kona she is a trip. Good dog.

Violence begets violence. There is far too much violence everywhere, reading about it or watching it on the TV tube is not so smart for peace lovers like me. Poverty is a form of violence, I don't like it. Gardens and bioswales, yes. Right on. More yoga, less local news loco. Strengthen the bones.

Nielson sent me another one dollar bill with the promise of a fiver if only I would fill out and return their survey. I am two dollars up, passing them along to the rough sleepers outside my door. The survivors.

I looked up Hiram Ulysses Grant 'cause he is on the $50. A c99er sent me some to get my broken tooth pulled, what in hell am I complaining about? Sheesh. I just love the river too much. Anyway, the wiki makes him out to be a pretty cool guy I think. I'd like to know why the name change when his initials were really HUG? I guess USG was a better prop during the last civil war? I know nothing compared to the fire hose of history.

My siblings all attended Drake High School which is having a renaming talk away from the colonial story. I went to Redwood High, six years behind Robin Williams, ar ar! And then I went to Tamalpais High, pun intended. Drake is where I saw Helen Caldicott talk about Hiroshima and Nagasaki and crazy Reagan with his finger on the button. Blip blip!

Peace and Love
And Thanks

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TheOtherMaven's picture

@eyo

and rather than argue the point, Grant just changed his name to match their records. (You could do that very easily back then, without going through the courts and all that.)

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

ggersh's picture

hear of the local kind, one would never know that it's happening all across ameriKKKa if all
you had was MSM informing you.

global warming is sadly here already way before it was scheduled

https://projects.propublica.org/climate-migration/

http://arctic-news.blogspot.com/p/summary.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/greenland-ice-shelf-breaks-off-climate-cha...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNkOXYpuJmE

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Buy a Bible read it fully, analyze it, reason it and you will be
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Lookout's picture

@ggersh

but they ain't going to tell you about them...just like they ain't telling about Julian...where our gov't is arguing that any journalist who prints classified info will be charged. And the MSM is silent.

Yellow vest in France
https://www.france24.com/en/20200912-french-yellow-vests-tussle-with-pol...
Belarus elections
https://abcnews.go.com/International/22-year-helping-lead-belarus-protes...
even The Indian Ocean island of Mauritius was rocked again by major protests on Saturday 12 September.

People sense things are rigged against them and they ain't none to happy about it.

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

ggersh's picture

@Lookout @Lookout

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

Thomas Jefferson

EDIT: added 1st part of JD Russell interview

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Buy a Bible don't read it and you'll be a Catholic
Buy a Bible read only what suits you and you'll be an Evangelical
Buy a Bible read it fully, analyze it, reason it and you will be
an Atheist

magiamma's picture

@ggersh
I just hope millions of people hear what he has to say. Just the truth. Thanks for Jimmy. Take good care.

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@ggersh
Just got around to reading About and watching the climate crisis videos. Thanks. Will forward to the climate group folks.

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Anja Geitz's picture

Great topic. One only needs to follow "Neera -vote early- Tanden" on twitter to get an idea of how the propaganda campaign being waged this election cycle actually works. For someone like myself who barely follows political twitter feeds these day, checking in every once in awhile is like walking into a room where someone with a hearing impairment has the volume on the T.V. blaring. A bit jarring to confront the new level of crazy that is passing for political discourse and the obliviousness of those who have the volume turned up to deafening levels.

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

magiamma's picture

@Anja Geitz
Right...

A bit jarring to confront the new level of crazy that is passing for political discourse and the obliviousness of those who have the volume turned up to deafening levels.

It's just that the level keeps increasing bit by bit. How far can they go? Thanks for the fire update. May the winds not blow your way. Only 3% contained. Insane. I remember when the one here was like that and growing madly. It got down to highway 9 in one place which runs though all the mountain towns. Be safe. My thoughts are with you.

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Anja Geitz's picture

@magiamma

Today was the first day, after almost two weeks, we saw blue skies and the mountains. And just for comparison...

Today:

blue skies_0.jpg

Last Friday:

yellow skies.JPG
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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

magiamma's picture

@Anja Geitz
isn't is just amazing how wonderful it is to see blue sky again. Woo hoo! Thanks for the pics.

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Anja Geitz's picture

Kerry Gilliland of the California Incident Management Team does a really good job updating residents on the activity of the BobcatFire covering what is happening on the perimeter of the fire and where the focus will be for Firefighting Teams today.

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

Anja Geitz's picture

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

enhydra lutris's picture

aware of the sleeper effect and am still not completely sure of what it is and all that.

Specifically, belief change appears to increase with low credibility conditions and decrease with high credibility conditions. Credibility conditions doesn't compute for me.

Is it whether or not the source is per se credible?
Is it whether or not the source is perceived to be credible?
Is it where the entire milieu is one of distrust (or trust) of (official/unofficial/all) sources?
Is it a function of the reader's/hearer's weltanschauung?

Very valuable to know about it all the same, regardless of the uncertainties as to its application.

be well and have a good one.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

magiamma's picture

@enhydra lutris
better here too. Fire almost contained. So far so good. Still months to go before we sleep (soundly)

Numerous studies at this point and the technique is widely used in advertising. Que surpresa. Several places addressed the similarity between this and pstd responses. Way complicated and the researchers were surprised but it has to do with the way the brain stores information. Much to ruminate over. And it does seem counterintuitive.

Take good care. Glad you got some rain. Here none. Clear skies. Well, a bit smokey.

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Granma's picture

The sky is lighter than it has been. We made it from hazardous air down into the very unhealthy air range. Yay! The smoke is supposed to actually start clearing out tomorrow. But today, you can step out the door without instantly getting a headache. It has been a very long week.

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magiamma's picture

@Granma
Thanks so much for the update. My friends live in OC as well so it is good to know. She did write me but I have not heard back again. Glad to hear you are okay. There were many days here I could not go outside. I finally donned my n95 and started walking again. Take good care.

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Electric vehicle company Nikola admits demo truck was just rolling downhill
https://boingboing.net/2020/09/15/electric-vehicle-company-nikol.html

In 2016, Nikola demonstrated a full-size electric truck flying along a desert highway. The company now admits the demo, embedded below, was faked. The truck was simply rolling downhill.

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Unabashed Liberal's picture

and are safe from the wildfires. Don't think I've checked in with you since the most recent ones ignited, so, honestly, not certain if you are real close to them, or not. Regardless, sending you and yours positive karma regarding your safety.

Thanks for today's essay. I do think that it's useful to listen to some of the MSM blather--so long as a person fact checks it. We usually turn on Cables News (sorta as background noise, just tuning in if a topic catches our attention) for good portion of the day--rotating between the channels--just to find out what the newest tidbit of propaganda is, that's being pushed.

IOW, I listen to it in order to note the program, so that I can obtain the transcript the following day, screenshot excerpts, and expose their lies. It's not that I rely on them for "the truth." I've long ago acknowledged that the MSM--and, to some extent, many progressive and conservative or partisan websites--are tools of the so-called bipartisan Washington Establishment.

For instance, if I hadn't been listening to Blitzer on CNN on last week, I probably wouldn't have heard about, and, therefore, located Dr Zeke Emanuel's COVID vaccine distribution plan. BTW, he's not only Biden's chief health care advisor, he heads his so-called Public Health Committee.

Emanuel differs from most ethicists--aside from his calls for healthcare rationing by age/productivity measures--he wants the COVID vaccine to also be distributed by "productivity" levels, not to groups--especially, the elderly--who are most vulnerable when it comes to dying from the virus.

Here's a blurb from an article about his recent White Paper regarding COVID vaccine distribution:


The authors also object to a plan that would prioritize countries according to the number of frontline health care workers, the proportion of the population over 65, and the number of people with comorbidities within each country.

Instead, he focuses on 'premature' deaths--which is based upon a formula which determines how many years of 'productivity' to society that an individual has left. I'll be Tweeting out the White Paper, with excerpts, explaining the concept as presented in his paper, then, posting it here. Can't make this stuff up!

The biggest problem that I have with the MSM--other than the fact that they blatantly lie--is that, as a handful of progressive writers have pointed out, they don't 'report' anything--they mostly editorialize.

IOW, they push an agenda.

Hey, hope everything's going well for you, and, that you stay safe in every way. Pleasantry

Mollie

"The leaders of this new movement are replacing traditional liberal beliefs about tolerance, free inquiry, and even racial harmony with ideas so toxic and unattractive that they eschew debate, moving straight to shaming, threats, and intimidation."
~~Matt Taibbi, The American Press Is Destroying Itself, June 12, 2020

"I know, I know. All passion; no street smarts."
~~Captain West, 1992 Rob Reiner/Aaron Sorkin Movie, A Few Good Men

“If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went.”
~~Will Rogers, Actor & Social Commentator (1856-1950)

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magiamma's picture

@Unabashed Liberal
Words fail. To each we assign a productivity quotient and everyone else can just die die die. To laugh or cry? There is no humanity in any part of that plan.

Emanuel differs from most ethicists--aside from his calls for healthcare rationing by age/productivity measures--he wants the COVID vaccine to also be distributed by "productivity" levels, not to groups--especially, the elderly--who are most vulnerable when it comes to dying from the virus.

wow, just wow. Have a good one and you and yours take good care.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

@magiamma

and proposes a plan that has no ethics nor morality about it.

How Post-Sanity.

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

@TheOtherMaven @TheOtherMaven

a/k/a Doctor Death--so very scary.

(even more so than his Brother, IMO)

Have a good one!

Mollie

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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

magiamma's picture

@TheOtherMaven
The best...

a plan that has no ethics nor morality about it.

How Post-Sanity.

Lol

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@Unabashed Liberal
does this remind me of?
"a formula which determines how many years of 'productivity' to society that an individual has left"
I'm losing track of which apocalypse script we're living. At the end of John Brunner's The Sheep Look Up (early 70s), a character in Ireland remarks on the smell of smoke in the air. He's told "that's America burning". But I still go with the saying: you can tell reality, because that's what takes you by surprise.

Thanks for bringing up Zeke. I've been assuming that we would do something rational, like protecting medical and other essential workers first. But the Great Profit Engine (aka "productivity") must be fed.

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If I'm wrong, it's the first time I'm happy to be confused. -Don Van Vliet

my open thread ponderings.

Today i decided to look up some global statistics and apply them to the US. I wanted to see if I could estimate how many excess deaths the US has suffered in the pandemic. So I did a "Fermi calculation".
First I calculated the overall global death rate:
(global death toll)/(global population)
946,712/7,800,000,000=0.000121373333333
Then I multiplied that fraction times the US population
0.000121373333333 X 330,052,960=40,059

If the US had managed the pandemic similar to the average for the whole world, we would have lost 40,000 people. This is a bit of apples-to-oranges; it would be best to use population and mortality figures for "developed" nations only, but that would take a long time, and probably not change the answer overly much.

So to calculate the "excess mortality estimate", I subtracted 40,059 from the total US death toll:
201,638 - 40,059 = 161,579
Round it. This estimate is probably only accurate to two significant figures.

The US has suffered 160,000 excess COVID-19 deaths!
To date. This number will rise. One model predicted 400,000 deaths by year's end.

We can lay these deaths at the feet of DJT and his co-classians. Like Kushner hijacking shipments of PPE.

160,000. Way more than 50 times the death toll from 9-11. Let that sink in. It can sink pretty far.

There is a huge range of mortality rates for other "developed" countries.
China: 3 deaths per million
Vietnam: 0.4 deaths per million
South Korea: 7 deaths per million
Cuba: 10 deaths per million
Brazil: 630 deaths per million
UK: 614 deaths per million
Russia: 131 deaths per million
US: 608 deaths per million

Some of these death per million numbers are likely influenced by reporting artifacts and/or concealment. This is not a measurement in physics. I left off India because many deaths in the countryside may go unreported or not attributed to COVID-19. Note the difference between socialist and right-wing governments, but also note that even capitalist South Korea has a low death rate.

Population numbers from wikipedia. Mortality numbers from https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

160,000. We should call these murders. Deliberate, knowing, premeditated.

Jeffrey Dahmer? Osama bin Laden? Oklahoma City bombing? Mere pikers.

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If I'm wrong, it's the first time I'm happy to be confused. -Don Van Vliet

magiamma's picture

@pindar's revenge
Gruesome and enlightening. Just upthread molly points out that Dr Zeke Emanuel's COVID vaccine distribution plan wants to Determine who gets it by how productive they are in society. Meat packers? Bankers? Productivity rating?

Imho this administration made a conscious decision to make money, to play politics w people’s lives. They are murders. I agree. The nyt iirc has a chart which compares past monthly deaths to deaths this year. Also enlightening.

Thanks again. Take good care.

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@magiamma

Yes, gruesome. Sacrificing people to the great god Dow.

There is a clear division in the world: sane countries vs the insane. And it's not just capitalism: even the Chamber of Commerce types promote sensible response to the pandemic., because they know that excess disturbance is bad for biz.

Fire and storm and disease, oh my. We've rocked the boat to the point where it is tipping.

Be safe, be well.

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If I'm wrong, it's the first time I'm happy to be confused. -Don Van Vliet

@magiamma

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/american-exceptionalism-has-beco...

"Many Asia-Pacific countries have succeeded against covid-19 — South Korea, Vietnam, Singapore, New Zealand, Australia. All were hit by SARS or witnessed its economic damage, and they learned from the experience."
Hmm. "economic damage"
"She notes that the United States, Britain, Brazil and Chile all have strong national narratives that see themselves as separate, distinct and better than others."

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If I'm wrong, it's the first time I'm happy to be confused. -Don Van Vliet

magiamma's picture

@pindar's revenge
Does appear that we are approaching the point on that exponential curve where it’s not possible to pull back.

Those countries learned from SARs and were prepared. Or like New Zealand just used critical thinking. Yes economics plays a big part in people’s survival. Somehow we need to figure out how to live on the planet more gently

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@magiamma
is that it is the system which provides food, clothing, shelter and well-being to the population.
Not Great God Pan Dow. Not "disruptive" startups which get rich selling "pet rocks", my name for all the useless trash we're inundated with. Not online retailers destroying mom and pop shops and paying workers starvation wages so they have to collect welfare. Not all the 1s and 0s in remote secret accounts which translate to $$$$.

Hey, I know how to solve the economy! Hire a couple million people to rake millions of acres of forest, and re-open all those rake factories! And then do it all over again next year and each year! See, simple. Soon we'll have the world looking like a tremendous, beautiful, exceptional golf course.

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magiamma's picture

@pindar's revenge
If I were queen of Gaia, first thing I would do is cancel the mic. Implement (almost) all your suggestions. Do Cuba training for doctors and Cuba style gardening in every corner. Create an infrastructure that is carbon free. K. That just for starters. We could still do this.

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@magiamma
People in Austria are having a field day with his comments.

Seriously, tho: the "economy" is driven by two things: greed and insecurity. And I think insecurity is the most treatable factor.

Most people just want to take care of their family, and not fear old age. They want to send their kids to college, and they want to feel secure in their home. They want care when they are sick or disabled, and not be homeless or neglected in old age. So they need the highest-paying job, take risks with their life (think coal miners) and run the rat race so they can have basic security, because the "safety nets" are full of holes, and someone always wants to jerk it out of the way when they fall.

If we removed the fear factor... If we diverted the trillion per year we spend on weapons and war to college and medicine and food and homes, our nation would be far more secure. And have less rage.

Donorcrats talk about "economic anxiety" like it's some kind of touchie-feelie problem, like these weaklings are looking for somebody to hug the poor darlings. Disgusting. How about "economic terror". I know people who lost their homes and their livelihoods in the last crash.

We need to provide people with basic security to have a sane population.

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If I'm wrong, it's the first time I'm happy to be confused. -Don Van Vliet

magiamma's picture

@pindar's revenge

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Stop Climate Change Silence - Start the Conversation

Hot Air Website, Twitter, Facebook

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If I'm wrong, it's the first time I'm happy to be confused. -Don Van Vliet

Unabashed Liberal's picture

@pindar's revenge @pindar's revenge

meaning to catch up with you and say that, but, my timing is usually so bad, that I haven't seen you in time to do so. Smile

Thank you for all the interesting stats and info. Sometimes I feel quite a bit overwhelmed--the more I see and read. But, must at least 'try' to wrap my head around all that's happened (relating to COVID) for almost a year now.

Take good care. Stay safe, and be well.

(Edited - stay, not safe)

Mollie

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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

@Unabashed Liberal
Love your dog pic. My dog is half golden, half shepherd. Has the charm of a golden and the smarts of a shepherd.

Yeah, I frequently have to dive into abstract entertainment.

Be well.

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If I'm wrong, it's the first time I'm happy to be confused. -Don Van Vliet