My Response to Biden's Vote Shamers
It’s looking like Bernie is getting the Democratic nomination taken from him, again. This time it was a little more surreptitious and not quite as brazenly corrupt as last time, but it’s pretty clear from where I stand that a concerted effort was made to “Stop Bernie.”
In addition to the Democratic Party holding meetings on how to prevent a candidate from winning, they tried to prop up almost every loser in succession, finally going all in behind Biden when the last of them came in a dismal 3rd place in her home state. The media was relentless in their derision of Bernie, too, and for that I have neither the patience nor the time to enumerate.
It wasn’t just Bernie, either. Tulsi Gabbard faced vehement opposition from the day she announced her campaign. Actually, it began before the announcement since she postponed it and was met with two news cycles stating that her campaign was in “disarray” and “off to a bad start.” They froze her out of the debates, and the town halls, and then changed the criteria for qualifying after she met the bar.
I don’t reward bad behavior. It seems the DNC learned nothing from Hillary’s loss in 2016. I know, I know, politics ain’t beanbag and all that. But here’s the thing. You cannot continue to disenfranchise me and my preferred candidates and then turn around and claim ownership to my vote. You cannot demand my participation. 120 million eligible voters abstained from the 2016 general election, and according to Rachel Bitecofer, the swing voter is a myth. Elections are decided by who decides to vote.
Nobody goes around and tries to individually shame the 120 million nonvoters. It’s well understood that apathy or distrust in the process is to blame.
There are plenty of single issue voters. If Joe Biden announced he was not Pro-Choice you would expect him to lose millions of solid Democratic votes, wouldn't you? And no one would have the gall to shame those voters.
So why can't I have that same liberty because he's against Medicare for All? Or because he has a track record of proposing cuts to Social Security? Or because he flat out lied about his record?
Normally we allow voters the leeway to make these decisions for themselves. Not so with people who wanted to support Bernie or Tulsi. It seems that participation in the Democratic primary means you are beholden to support the Democratic nominee. Anyone telling me I must vote for Biden can fuck right off.
Comments
Nothing But Corruption
This process sure seems corrupt enough, to me. The orchestrated drop outs, the day before Super Tuesday? The gaps between the exit polls and totals reported? The DNC is manipulating their various state chairs to flip the votes on electronic voting machines. There is no other explanation. And as long as they get away with it, they will continue to do it. Neither does the DNC care if progressives vote elsewhere, or don't vote at all. Again. So, what's the difference?
We need a third major party. The Democrats are as rotted out and dead inside as the GOP.
IDK about the exit poll discrepancy
Well at least we didn't have Barack Obama electioneering inside polling locations. And the caucus mayhem wasn't quite as bad...
But as far as the discrepancy with the exit polls, take that with a grain of salt. "TDMS Research" which seems to be the sole source of this story is just one guy's Wordpress blog that was dormant for 4 years. He uses preliminary data, and I have a hard time replicating his math since the exit polls are all broken down according to demographics, like race, gender, age, etc., and since we don't know the breakdown of the total voters I don't see how to extrapolate that data. For instance, the exit polls are based on Edison Research which provides data for large media outlets. I couldn't find any data on their website, and so this seems to be the best source I could find.
https://www.cnn.com/election/2020/entrance-and-exit-polls/texas/democratic
I'm using Texas for my example, and the actual results from google
https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk03FdBqGW3SGydxP2c04_hxXeN8jdg%3...
The exit poll cites a 44% male sample and a 56% female sample, but we don't know what the proportions were statewide, although historically women have voted more. So when they say Bernie had a 34% / 27% split it's a guessing game when you try to average those two numbers. It is a little easier with Biden because he got 33% for both genders equally so it doesn't matter what the actual turnout was. Biden ended up with 34.5% of the vote, which is a 4.5% improvement. That's suspicious... but TDMS said Biden got +1% bump and Bernie got -12% drop. Their numbers don't jibe. It's pretty sloppy.
I'm not saying it didn't happen, just that TDMS Research is a crappy source, and the only one making the claim.
“He may not have gotten the words out but the thoughts were great.”
The only reason there's "only one source" for exit polls
is that the Establishment does not want you to know how thoroughly and totally they are cheating you. The Totally Owned and Totally Corrupt Media used to report on exit polls, until the discrepancies became too blatant - and then the obediently stopped reporting and started parroting the party line that "exit polls can't be trusted".
Unless it's about elections in some country that's in the US Empire's crosshairs - then hoo boy, exit polls prove their elections aren't valid (even if the difference is within margin of error).
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
What I meant was
There is only one source for the exit poll discrepancy story, a solitary blogger with faulty math and preliminary election results, and everyone is taking it as fact.
“He may not have gotten the words out but the thoughts were great.”
Is that where Lee Camp of Redacted Tonight
got his data?
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
GOP
Today's Democrats are the GOP. Pas de difference.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Exactly why I'm exiting the votoer rolls.
Not playing their game anymore. They make all the rules and change them to suit themselves. Not playing anymore.
Edited to add this great article in Black Agenda Report
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
TPTB want you to vote for Biden or Trump
Barring that, they want you to not vote. That is a satisfactory outcome for TPTB.
They don't want you voting 3rd party.
Fine by me.
They're going to generate the outcome they want anyway so it MAKES NO DIFFERENCE if I vote or not. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
They don't want you voting 3rd party.
Which is the main reason I still vote -- so I can do just that.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
@Raggedy Ann I #DemExited in 2009
I #DemExited in 2009 after Obama threw the progressives under the bus. But I still vote. I vote third party on the top line rather than LOTE. Mark Charles is a good choice this year. But if all politics is local, then I need to vote in local politics. Downballot is just as important. And sometimes there are important ballot measures like legalizing weed or raising the state minimum wage.
Vote shaming doesn't work on me. If they want my vote then
the first rule is 'stop fucking cheating'. Most of us learned as small children that it is wrong to cheat, and many of us still believe it.
If they can't run a clean unbiased campaign with no lying, cheating, or election fraud then they can go shit in their hats.
Since we won't be getting M4A or free state college, and Medicare and SS cuts are going to be on the table anyway, I'll take 4 more years of Trump over 8 more years of O'biden. I'll be voting for Trump.
They have proven that they don't give a shit what the voters want so I am sure they won't mind if I vote for Trump.
Bien dit!
If they can't run a clean unbiased campaign with no lying, cheating, or election fraud then they can go shit in their hats.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
And the thing is
Didn't Biden say a while back that he wasn't pro-choice, or something to that effect?
There's no good reason he should be doing as well as he is right now.
This shit is bananas.
He has a horrible record
very much at odds with most Democratic voters. He has been lukewarm at best with respect to reproductive choice, was a strong supporter of crime bills that resulted in large increases in the African American prison population, was a strong supporter of welfare reform, that removed many African Americans from public assistance, threw Anita Hill under the bus, has repeatedly offered to cut Social Security and Medicare, and was a strong supporter of the invasion of Iraq. He lies a lot and is a serial plagiarist. All this on top of his child molesting and dementia. This has been all about hiding the real Joe Biden (in so much as there is a real Joe Biden) and presenting people with electable uncle Joe.
We must remember
"There's no good reason he should be doing as well as he is right now."
That most primaries were "closed" primaries...where anyone other than a Democrat could vote. The stats I see often is that only like 27 percent of people identify as Republicans, and only 25 percent identify as Democrats. While those who identify as Independents are double that number. So really, this was just the "hard-core" Democrats (who btw help enable neo-liberalism) who are weally, weally scared of big bad Bernie and his scawy ideas. Blacks LOVED Obama, and I literally almost got thrown out of a hair salon when I asked "what did Obama do for the black community"...they were horrified to be asked such a question. So yes, it IS the black community who is joined at the hip of a party that despises them. They would vote for Strom Thurmond if the black misleadership class, embodied by Jim Clyburn or Obama, asked them to.
Well done is better than well said-Ben Franklin
David Duke
..... David Duke .....
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
@Daenerys He supported the Hyde
He supported the Hyde amendment until last fall. I suppose his advisors told him he'd lose the women if he didn't flip-flop on that.
The reason I'm not on board with the vote rigging
argument is that the outcomes we're seeing are in broad agreement with the crosstabs of polls we saw for a year prior to this.
We all knew that in order to win, Sanders would need to expand turnout among the under 45 voters, not by a little but by a lot. It's looking like he's only getting a little. His work with the Latino community has been a success.
There's been a huge surge among older voters. Did we suddenly grow a lot more geezers? Nope. This indicates just how much the loathsome Hillary Clinton depressed turnout four years ago. We a choice of ANY other centrist they're coming out of the woodwork to vote. I didn't plan on this, and it looks like the Sanders campaign didn't either.
It always looked like Sanders would need to hold multiple opponents below viability and overperform on the delegates with 30-35% of the vote, building a delegate lead that he could hold through the end of the primary season and hope to win on the first ballot.
Obama (if it was him) saw this and cleared the field. That's not rigging, that's smart politics well executed.
Dominating among 30% of the voters just doesn't get the job done.
This doesn't speak well of the majority of Democratic primary voters. They're voting for the Biden of 10 years ago, which is why actual campaigning is not only unnecessary but would be counterproductive. I'm appalled that they would even vote for that Biden, but that's the electorate we're dealing with. I'm mystified that Sanders can't get to 40%+ support among the 50+ demographic, but the polls, cross-tabs, and primary results all show that he hasn't.
None of that is going to make Biden viable in the general. And I still don't think he will be the ultimate candidate. Even if Covid-19 and a crashing market combine to stop Trump, allowing ANY Democrat to beat him, it won't be Biden. It will be someone far worse.
So to the topic of the thread...
The Democrats' argument is framed as "vote Blue no matter who" and then they get to pick the candidate. I'm not playing that game. They have (had) a chance to earn my vote by advancing an attractive (to me) candidate. They picked the worst of the pack (again), and we'll get someone far worse at or after the convention. So I #DemExited a couple days ago, I'm a Green again. There is nothing Biden or the anticipated sub-Biden can do to earn my vote.
On the bright side, here in Colorado Romanoff won the "preference caucus" 2:1 over ChickenPooper, who will have to get signatures to get on the June primary ballot. If I understand correctly, I'll still be able to vote in that primary as well as an independent. I can get behind Romanoff as a lesser evil for Senate. But that's about as far as it's going to go.
I have respect for the work Sanders has done building a movement. It looks suspiciously like a political party that doesn't provide ballot access. He's mentored a new generation of activists. What hope remains rests with them.
"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone
Excellent analysis.
For whatever reason, and there were many, Sanders had insufficient MO, for lack of a better descriptor, in 2019. Biden was no more than a placeholder for those not paying attention and still enamored of all things Obama. He wasn't the choice of TPTB. Who they had on their short-list is a guessing game because "they" will never reveal that and probably aren't as stupid as they were in 2015-2016 to put it in unsecured e-mail form. As usual, they waited for one or two of their preferred candidates to break out in the polling and confirmed in IA and NH. That didn't happen (two favs, Harris and Castro didn't even make it to IA). It wasn't just Sanders that they didn't want; they didn't want Pete or Liz either.
Mad cow disease pandemic?
It really is puzzling that people currently dependent, or soon to be dependent, on SS or Medicare would think that Biden or any of these biliousnaire-coddling "centrists". They mostly should have been around long enough to know about Biden's record first-hand although there's plenty of available evidenced if people decide not to believe his lies.
People say they want the same things we do but then vote the opposite— this country is as mess and perhaps the entire planet. Apparently Boris Johnson's plan is just to let the virus run its course: stiff upper lip and all that, though looks like it'll be more than the lips getting stiff.
Re more older voters
so far this cycle: I believe turnout is up across all age groups, as having Trump in office and the prospect of getting him out is driving more out to vote in the primaries. But olders tend to be more reliable voters, so naturally their turnout will be the largest.
Second I think they have been largely motivated by that electability thing and comfort level. Not the issues. So, somewhat not surprising they may not be too familiar with Joe's track record. They just knew him as someone who'd been in the top levels of power, and with Obama, and that was enough. No Revolution necessary for them, might even make some of them a little nervous, especially that "democratic socialist" stuff. Restoration will do and Biden is good enough.
Among other things, Bernie has learned it's not wise strategy to place too much hope in a large increase in youth turnout. They always disappoint.
He also should have (20-20 hindsight) gone after Biden earlier and harder on SS/Medicare cuts, instead of waiting so late in the race to do so. I would have also advised to stress his M4A vs Joe's tepid ACA tweaking before launching yet again on the Iraq War vote.
On marketing, Bernie should have ditched the "democratic socialist" tag long ago, and gone with New New Dealer. It would have made his political heritage less Euro-sounding and more organic American; given younguns' a history lesson in FDR; and scared off far fewer potential voters.
But he did play a central role in putting M4A and GND into the discussion.
You may not like it and older voters may not like it,
but democratic socialist was truth in advertising for Bernie.
The New Deal resonates negatively with most older voters who have for decades heard and bought into the evils of the New Deal; not that more than one in ten appreciate what was involved and few wouldn't willingly give up what it gave them which is why dismantling key provisions were done in stealth. (The "Reagan Revolution." See a "revolution" on the right is perfectly fine.) With younger voters, it doesn't resonate at all and they're fine with socialism.
Remember, the New Dealers didn't appear overnight. There were precursors and even once elected (only because of the profound economic collapse) they had to fight to enact what was possible and defer much of what was needed to complete the vision.
@Marie There is a movement
There is a movement spun off of Bernie to create a working people's party. How it will pan out, I don't know, but I joined yesterday, and I think it's time has come.
https://peoplesparty.org
It's time has come often
over the past 130 years. In every case it flickers and then dies, too often from internal turf battles. It's not easy to build the political institution required for a 3rd party to become a continuing force, but if its not built, people drift away. It also can't be done without leaders, and that's a problem because it's rare for individuals to step up to lead based on principles and not ego. Bernie really does come closer to what a third party leader must be like, but even those who have or do support him, crab about him all the time. However, great care needs to be taken not to build a party around a single leader.
The organizing charter (or whatever it's called) must be broad and not include all the pet projects of those that want to be involved. IOW, the original members also have to follow the principle above ego maxim.
The name of a party is also important. "Peoples Party," like Working Families Party isn't going to get the job done. (For me, Jim Jones destroyed any use of Peoples X.) I don't have any good ideas for a name, but would know one when I hear it.
It doesn't bother me --
I 'm one of these coastal elitists who also has lived in Europe. For me, being a d-s is no biggie. But for the untamed masses? It will take a little longer to remove some of the taint. So, politically it was not the best label to have. And I'm not sure it was exactly "truth in advertising" as socialism also carries with it the notion of gov't ownership of the means of production, which Bernie does not promote.
On the New Deal, I'm not aware of any stats to concur with your conclusions on it (happy to look at a cite u might have), but even if true, it would present a much easier opportunity for Bernie et al to reclaim the term and wear the label proudly, benefit politically, as we reeducate the public about its many benefits to them. Particularly in these dark economic times as we appear on the precipice of The Great Depression 2.0.
Too broad brush
Not for widgets. Schools, roads, health care facilities, utility companies (power, water, sewer, and garbage) are government owned all over this country. Not exclusively and less so today than in the past. So, where does this fear come from?
fear of socialism
It's manufactured by those whose un-earned passive profit$ would increase if Wall Street owned everything.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
I beg to differ about Obama, if it was him making changes
, and if I were at some kind of betting window I'd bet everything I had and could borrow that he was, getting other candidates to drop out and endorse Biden at a critical time qualifies as influencing an election to reduce Bernie's chances of winning (which it certainly did) aka 'rigging' to some degree.
That also goes for every decision like changing the rules to let Bloomberg in,to keep Tulsi out, and Jim Clyburn violating the promise he'd made about not endorsing any candidate prior to a Primary in exchange for getting SC moved up in the voting line.
There many other examples and if anyone says it was a decision solely made by Tom Perez just because his name was attached to every decision, I absolutely disagree. If anything that alone is evidence Obama was making these changes because Tom Perez is the walking talking thumbprint of Barack Obama since he intervened to get Tom Perez to be the head of the DNC over a more popular, and progressive, Keith Ellison.
"President Obama privately said he would speak up to stop Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) from becoming the Democratic presidential nominee, Politico reported Tuesday.
The former president reportedly said if Sanders held a strong lead in the Democratic primary, he would speak out to prevent him from becoming the nominee.
A close adviser to Obama told Politico he could not confirm whether Obama would stand up against Sanders.
“He hasn’t said that directly to me,” the adviser said. “The only reason I'm hesitating at all is because, yeah, if Bernie were running away with it, I think maybe we would all have to say something. But I don't think that's likely. It's not happening.”
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/472090-obama-privately-said-he-wou...
Unfortunately, DNC (or RNC)
(shorthand for those that control U.S. politics)
election "interference" is perfectly legal. They brought out what "big guns" they had in NV to test run making Biden viable. Knowing full well that if it worked in NV, the "big guns" would work really well in SC. Then it was a mop up operations -- carrots or sticks for Pete and Amy and likely plenty of carrots for Bloomie.
I don't remember where I read it
but awhile back there was an article with a quote from a democratic insider who said that democrats have already chosen their candidate. And remember Hillary's admission that she knew who it was going to be. Was there vote rigging? You betcha there was. Is?
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Tom Perez
doesn't do anything on his own initiative. He's a stooge. He's built his career on being a cog in the Dem machine. He does what he's told to do.
"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi
"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone
Why should I vote for Biden?
Don't tell me "Trump Bad", because that's not a reason to vote for Biden.
That's a reason not to vote for Trump.
The thing is I can list a couple ways (wars and FTAs) that Trump is better than Biden. (which tells you just how bad Biden is)
If Trump is so bad why are democrats giving him what he wants?
Hmm I wonder how many people even notice that? Can anyone name one bill that democrats have blocked Trump and his buddies from passing? The tax bill does count as them voting for it because it was so riddle with problems they needed the democrat's help to fix it.
But as to shaming me into voting for an even worse candidate then Herheinous they can shove it to where the sun don't shine. Besides what's a little election rigging when the democrats don't give a rat's ass if you live or die? They should have closed the vote last night as per the CDC instructing no crowds above 50. Or 10. But sure let's get granny out there to expose herself to the virus. She has Medicare after all does she not?
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-cT_bn9sIo&list=TLPQMTgwMzIwMjCrQp57Gly...
Well maybe when granny dies the family can sue Perez and the DNC. They should. And Biden as Jimmy says here.
F them hard and sideways. I refuse to vote for war criminals and for someone who has spent his entire career making my life more difficult.
#NeverByeDone!!
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
My answer to the shaming
belittling, and abusive behavior is to inform them that it is a form of election fraud and is illegal and un-American.
Every voter is free to vote as they please without pressure or coercement of any kind.
Those who engage in this activity do not belong in a free and open democracy.
That usually shuts them the hell up.
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
Probably the result is due to --
Sanders voters staying home per CDC recommendation.
“One of the things I love about the American people is that we can hold many thoughts at once” - Kamala Harris
Very well written.
Using my set of words: The bit (about "those" people) that drives me crazy is the contention that somehow my opinion represent a "political bias" while their opinion is somehow grounded in the greater good.
As I have stated often: I will be voting for Bernie Sanders all the way through the general election. To pretend that my position is isomorphic with that of people supporting Trump is demonstrably incongruous with Reality. Those that are unable to understand are mentally, morally, (or whatever) deficient or out of touch with said Reality.
RIP
Last time I voted...
for a Dem Presidential candidate was 2008.
Third time's a charm, you crooks!
Enjoy your Whiggery.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
they seem to think we're Democrats
as noted thousands of times, we're as much "independents" as anyone else. The Dems love catering to the mythical beer guzzling trucker independent (who's really a Trumper anyway) but they hate left-leaning indies. As we all know.
looks to me
that ol' Mittster (Mitt Rommney) is positioning himself for another Presidential run. He is setting himself up as the "adult in the room" voting for the impeachment, and now calling for the emergency UBI.
Well done is better than well said-Ben Franklin
rMoney had his chance
If he was going to challenge Trump, he should have gone ahead and done it. He won't get another chance in 2024, because he will be "too old" - and if this election doesn't put the voters en masse off candidates over 70, nothing ever will.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
I really don’t care what they say
I’m not voting for Biden. I feel no shame or guilt about that.
Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.
Exactly
They can only shame you if you feel guilty about it. I not only could give four flying fucks about what they think is my "duty", I will get a perverse pleasure out of pissing them off.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
The people who should be shamed are Biden Voters
They are as ignorant as ByeDone is demented AND crooked.