Just how dumb are democrats? Very: Florida democrats trust Biden over Sanders on Social Security

This is going to be short, because the following statement really says it all: more Floridians trust Biden than Bernie on Social Security (see for yourself--you might have to scroll down a bit).

Biden spent literally his entire political career working closely with Republicans to do everything they could to freeze, gut, and cut social safety nets in this country, including and especially Social Security. This isn't something hidden from view: Biden is open about it (except at the recent debates, where he's lied through his teeth). That even a single person thinks Biden is more trustworthy than Sanders on this issue is just sad.

It exposes the party--not just the leadership, but "average Joe Democrat" registered voters--as being filled with incredibly dumb people. This goes beyond simple ignorance. At best, it's simply willful ignorance. But what it really is, is name recognition and the terrible effects of party machinery in operation.

With democrats this deep in their own ignorance and stupidity, I'm just going to laugh at anyone who claims the democratic party can be reformed or salvaged from within. These people are as lost to reality as the republicans, and it simply isn't worth the time or energy to drag their dumb asses along in any fight for the 99%. They aren't interested, and I suspect they'd be more of a liability anyway.

Coda: this is why I'm pretty sure that there isn't as much cheating this time as last--there isn't any need. With voters as dumb as the ones currently in the party they simply don't need to cheat.

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Roy Blakeley's picture

Way of the Bern subreddit. The basic narrative of which is that Boomers are privileged and hate young people and want to screw them over. This is based on exit poles from places like South Carolina and Texas which actually show that most of the "Boomers" that voted for Biden are, in fact, older African Americans (so much for privilege--a word that is overused and is generally accompanied by shallow thought). One thing that is apparent is that most Biden voters are voting against their self-interest. This has been happening in various forms for decades and is not accidental. The msm are now nothing more than propaganda machines. They won't say anything about Biden's dementia, his willingness to cut Social Security and Medicare, or his pathological need to grope little girls and smell their hair. Nope. You will get a carefully crafted pro-Biden narrative hidden in the guise of objective journalism. So Biden voters are gullible and lazy, yes, but they have been trained to be that way by the msm. We are facing a powerful multifaceted machine, constructed consciously after the Powell memo of 1971. A machine with arms in the msm, evangelical churches, business, of course, and the security complex. It crafts a pervasive false view of the world. The superficial rules of electoral politics do not apply.

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26 users have voted.
TheOtherMaven's picture

@Roy Blakeley

It should be "tentacles".

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4 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

smiley7's picture

It appears.

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19 users have voted.

In the 1960s and 1970s we progressives hated the Democrat party more than the Republican party, for reasons that should be obvious now. The Democrats are in no way part of the solution, get that out of your head that they can be evolved to anything but a pile of useless nothing.

Bernie was their last chance to hold onto power. Yes, you read that right. He is the modern version of FDR, who saved capitalism by making small changes that made it tolerable. It was a time ripe for big changes. That never happened because of FDR. Decades of Reaganism coupled with neoliberalism from the democratic establishment have destroyed this country. Years of stressing wealth and profits over people has brought us to where we are today. Not surprisingly, we can't deal with a pandemic. It wasn't profitable to be prepared, so there are no extra beds, ICUs, ventilators and staff for the inevitable. And we have an underclass that can't protect themselves and will continually get infected and propagate the virus- that's close to 100 million people.

We need a new party and a new philosophy. I think that we are ready and we have a new class of people from 18 to 45 years old that are more than ready for change. Fighting this pandemic will be a completely new experience, changing everything. Joe Biden is completely irrelevant. We need to not expend Progressive energy on his candidacy. We need to stress the point that backing Biden is closing the curtain on our future. No Bernie supporter should ever vote for Biden. Instead, we should work for the image of economic justice that Bernie put in our heads. If he does not have the courage to lead us, then we must summon up our own courage.

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23 users have voted.

Capitalism has always been the rule of the people by the oligarchs. You only have two choices, eliminate them or restrict their power.

Raggedy Ann's picture

@The Wizard
It just is and the sooner we accept that the sooner we can move forward in force. This should teach people they are on their own. We must build our own communities of support. If I’m growing x and you’re growing y, we can barter. Fuck the government. It’s not here for us.

$1,000/person is peanuts. My granddaughter just lost her job because her restaurant closed for 30 days. She lives alone. She immediately called her apartment complex to say the rent isn’t coming. They said they’re trying to work with people in her sit. I just pointed her to her state’s unemployment. She should qualify. She needs $2,000/month to live. I told her I would give her our $2,000 so she can make it.

Whew! A rant. Pardon me. Pleasantry

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21 users have voted.

“The trouble [with injustice] is that once you see it, you can’t unsee it. And once you’ve seen it, keeping quiet, saying nothing, becomes as political an act as speaking out. There is no innocence. Either way, you’re accountable.”
-- Arundhati Roy

snoopydawg's picture

@Raggedy Ann

benefits. I don't know how true the stories on Twit are, but a few say that they work in hotels and got let go,, but when they tried to get UB their bosses said that they weren't laid off. Nope. They just got their hours reduced to zero and therefore they are techniquely not unemployed. Some business wants Trump to let them not pay for SS, Medicare and unemployment benefits. Yippee. Starve the beast. Yeah that will work. Details in my essay.

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3 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

@snoopydawg
unemployment insurance funds -- state (SUTA) and federal (FUTA) -- as part of their state and federal tax filings at least on a quarterly basis. An employer's unemployment premium rate is 1) standard base rate for all employers plus 2) a surcharge based its layoff history (employee benefit filings). It's a solid model that minimizes false claims that would be a burden not just to the false claimant's former employer but to all employers and maximizes the cost to irresponsible employers.

The system has worked well for something like seventy years for many reasons. What it was never designed to do was address a nationwide, government mandated furloughs. And apparently state and federal capitols are clueless about how to handle this. The most straightforward approach would be for employers to continue issuing paychecks.

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3 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@Marie

What I am ticked at is the companies trying to get out of paying for what they should be paying. Good grief haven't they ripped us off enough after getting bailouts and tax breaks for decades? I think they have. Enough, but of course congress will do what they want because they own congress.

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1 user has voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

@snoopydawg
are that furloughed workers due to COVID-19 are eligible for unemployment compensation. If sick or quarantined they aren't eligible; that would fall under sick leave and state disability funds. Perhaps it's best to table this until information other than anecdotal is available.

Even with unemployment benefits, the financial burden on furloughed workers is very high. This is why my recommendation would be to run it through the employers' payroll and not unemployment insurance. It wouldn't be complicated to do this.

btw -- if you knew how the unemployment system worked, maybe you shouldn't have made it sound as if employers can willy-nilly deny unemployment insurance claims. States not employers determine eligibility.

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smiley7's picture

@The Wizard
courageous than we, collectively, have been. Whatever may evolve, he's to be praised, imo.

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snoopydawg's picture

@The Wizard

How can this be? Kambama wants to give us up to $500 per married couple and $250 for single people. Just think about how this will save people who are on the brink of losing every gawd damn thing because they lost their job.

Alright pilgrims tighten your shorts and sing like the duke

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11 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

@snoopydawg

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15 users have voted.
Centaurea's picture

@The Wizard

Bernie was their last chance to hold onto power.

It's amazing, but not surprising, that they can't see this.

The fact that they can't see it is one sign of the advanced deterioration of the Dem party. They are so rigid, so lost in their own distorted view of "reality", so narcissistically grandiose, greedy and malicious, that they are unable to adapt, even to save their own party.

(I guess I'm also describing Hillary Clinton personally there, which is not a coincidence.)

Since 2016, I've been thinking that both DemExit and DemEnter could work together in a two-pronged "pincer" approach. The DemEnter folks using the "hostile takeover" method have made some progress in making connections and starting to build a foundation.

But I now think that the foundation they've begun will end up being that of a new party or parties. The Dem party is too rotten at the core to work with.

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19 users have voted.

"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi

"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone

Lily O Lady's picture

goes on. That just helps TPTB keep us off their case and at each others’ throats.

I am so frustrated with my fellow voters, but I know the power of the MSM to manufacture consent. They really have us trussed up like Christmas turkeys. Now Trump’s administration is going to cut payroll taxes which fund Social Security. By the time most people figure out what has happened, we’ll be totally screwed.

I think somewhere in people’s minds is the idea of fighting fire with fire. Or more accurately, liar with liar. That and being sucked in by the idea that Biden was the anointed one that everyone HAS to vote for. Let me just finish by saying, “Arghhhhh!!!”

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18 users have voted.

"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

Lily O Lady's picture

@Lily O Lady

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8 users have voted.

"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

@Lily O Lady

I'm in the 40+ group, a Gen-Xer, and this group is going overwhelmingly for Biden. That's more than one generation, and not all of it is attributable to manufacturing consent.

In fact, I question the validity of that construct given the direction technology has taken. When that book was written the internet was a few of us geeks arguing in whatever BBS or newsgroups we participated in. It's easy now for big media organizations to make stuff up--but it's just as easy for anyone to find the truth with just a few taps of a key and the click of a mouse. We're in a different era, and while the notions of propaganda and the manufacture of consent will always be applicable the methodologies and their effectiveness change.

What we're seeing today contains as much willful desire to be ignorant as it does any active attempts to befuddle.

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12 users have voted.
Bob In Portland's picture

@BayAreaLefty I don't think the division is that much. I mean, do you believe that Biden will do this or that because he said he would or because you've been propagandized over years to trust him? And then there are the absolutist propaganda stream for the more rigid. Some people still believe all the propaganda we got in the 1950s was valid. The incredible well of hatred for Russia in the American Psyche is truly amazing. It's like Hitler's hatred, distilled and injected to all those Nazi scientists we "Paper Clip"-ped and brought over. The buboes and the pustules all blooming.

I'm sorry. I may have gotten carried away.

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4 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

Obvious cognitive decline is a stutter.

Massive exit poll discrepancies are normal.

An ex-president installing his right-hand man as his successor is democracy.

Facts are Kremlin talking points.

Journalism is a crime.

War is peace.

Freedom is slavery.

Ignorance is strength.

link

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22 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

Lily O Lady's picture

@snoopydawg

a smoke machine. The MSM is the perfect screen for all the shenanigans both parties get up to. There’s the inverted totalitarianism. The private sector propagandizes the people on behalf of the state.

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16 users have voted.

"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

Cassiodorus's picture

that we need a political "us" to replace that which will go away if Sanders concedes the election and endorses Joe Biden. Sanders' political program is great; his constant assertion that bad Democrats are better than bad Republicans is irrelevant.

Maybe we could create some kind of video suggesting that we will create some kind of new political formation if he concedes the election. It will require the participation of as many people as possible; you'll have to herd them into formation electronically, as they will all be under conditions of social distancing. It will have to be titled "We disagree."

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16 users have voted.

"Neither time nor cognitive decline has, however, has calmed (Biden's) blood lust or a lifelong commitment to planetary collapse." -- Jennifer Matsui

snoopydawg's picture

@Cassiodorus

Nope. Nor will he from Biden.

We keep hearing that Hillary ran on the most progressive stuff ever and that Bernie is staying in to get Biden to switch to more progressive stuff. Don't fall for it. The democrats have no problem with what Trump is doing and that is why they keep giving him more power to do whatever the hell he wants. The democrats just passed the worst parts of the patriot act for the most dangerous president ever.

We actually need a real second party in this country because democrats are just the Washington generals to the republicans Harlem globetrotters. How can people not see this?

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21 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

Cassiodorus's picture

@snoopydawg Yeah, and "most dangerous President ever." I just tune out when Bernie talks about the difference between Democrats and Republicans.

Like I said, we really need a movement that declares its independence from Bernie. I don't think Bernie is going to run for President again. And we don't recover when Bernie endorses neoliberal Dems. People #demexit, they tune out, they stop believing in the political process. Krystal Ball has discussed this phenomenon in great detail.

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14 users have voted.

"Neither time nor cognitive decline has, however, has calmed (Biden's) blood lust or a lifelong commitment to planetary collapse." -- Jennifer Matsui

TheOtherMaven's picture

@Cassiodorus

Not that there's any rule against it, but he's already so old that it can be and is being used against him. (ByeDone is but a year younger and going senile to boot, but that doesn't matter to the Chattering Heads - he's so much easier to lie about because at one time or another he's been a toady to everybody.)

What we need is someone who can generate a comparable level of enthusiasm, is not beholden to the Dem Party, is willing to tell the Dem party to fuck off and run independent (or Green), and is at least twenty years younger. (Tulsi? Maybe. Is she willing to cut the umbilical cord?)

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8 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Like many a progressive I used to believe that the corporatists staged a coup and took over the party. All that was needed were groups like Justice Democrats to re-take the party. The basic assumption was that the base of the democratic party is progressive and would go along with the counter coup. After all, look at the polls--everybody supported progressive policies even republicans.

Here is the reality. The base of the democratic party is NOT progressive. In 2017 democratic law makers in town halls were being skewered over not supporting single payer. And they, the lawmakers, all did not support it. One of the most aggresious acts was by head of the CA House Assembly when a guy guy named Rendon who put that into a black hole.

Guess what happened? All of these anti-single payer democrats won their primaries, even Rendon, and went onto win. Oh look, the base of the democratic party supports medical for all, but will not vote for candidates who support it. Democratic base may poll left, but they certainly do not vote left.

Anybody who thinks that the democratic party can be taken over by progressives is living in a fantasy world. The base, the corruption, and the money will always stop progressives. In addition since Jackson's rainbow coalition, the establishment in the democratic party has crushed every progressive movement and candidate. Time to move on from the democratic party.

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snoopydawg's picture

@MrWebster

He is the most right wing democrat in congress and yet Nancy wanted him reelected. He is anti choice and votes with republicans on most bills. Fortunately he lost tonight. Hopefully his replacement will do better.

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15 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

smiley7's picture

@MrWebster

We must 'break the system' for constructive change that will matter, agreed, long-time, now, decades long in fact. Bernie used the Democrat Party to build a revolution, big time, it's up to the 99 percent, us, to carry on.

How? Best we can, I'm in.

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10 users have voted.
TheOtherMaven's picture

@MrWebster

This is absolutely not a safe assumption. There are many many ways to rig elections, and they have all been in use since at least 2000 (probably a lot longer).

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10 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

the dems will tolerate progressives in the party as long as they're reliable floor votes. If a progressive primaries an incumbent, they'll be steamrolled by the party. AOC taught them that.

I don't know after that. There would need to be enough progressives to peel off, ala Tbaggers, with enough clout to protect themselves. Ideally, from the bottom up some 3rd party building, enough to have the progressives to fall into.

It looks kind of hopeless right now because we're dealing with monopolies. Monopolies that have never had any legal constraints imposed on them.

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6 users have voted.

voted for Bernie yesterday. I knew it wouldn't matter, but I did it anyway.

There are a lot of Conservative Democrats here. Our state is beautiful and covered over with problems created by our own local politics. Much of the state is bright red Republican and it effects the willingness of most Democrats to embrace a truly progressive agenda.

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8 users have voted.

@crbngville
My mother voted but mostly detested all politicians with one exception and she was always proud of having voted for Shirley Chisholm in the 1972 Democratic primary.

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wendy davis's picture

yesterday mr. wd read me a headline saying that the NEA just endorsed...Biden! what a role model he is, eh?

'I hear those gentle voices calling...De-Men-Tia Joe...'

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4 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@wendy davis

Apparently they have forgotten how bad Biden and MyBoss were when they let Arne Duncan be the precursor to DeVos. Charter schools took off during their tenure, but then the NEA doesn't actually represent their teachers anymore.

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3 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery