Coronavirus Hoarding?


Some local evidence:

Mr. wd called me from Cortez, CO at the beginning of his grocery-shopping misadventure early on Saturday morning.  To put it mildly, he was agog, agape, and aghast during his first stop at Walmart.  What he found were empty shelves where OTC pain relievers, etc., toilet paper, kleenex, paper towels, and likely paper napkins (he hadn’t checked), should have been.  Most canned foods were also absent, and the wage slaves he’s friendly with reported that the meat aisle was likewise…empty.  They were all horrified at the mammoth cartloads of shelf-stable foods being tugged about.  Meat?  Unless the shoppers had large freezers…well, not so stable.

He bought a few of the available staples that were on his list, and spoke to his friend Jenny, the senior citizen Walmart Greeter on his way out the door.  She told him a horrifying tale about the Friday hoarders, jostling one another for the last bag of potatoes, and so on, so reminiscent of Black Friday trampliings and skirmishes.

But on Saturday?  Many shoppers had come from Farmington, NM (120 mi. roundtrip minimum) and Durango, CO, a 60 mi. roundtrip minimum and had decimated the shelves.  I checked online with both the Cortez Urinal and the Durango Herald: not  whisper bout the empty shelves.

Mr. wd pressed on to the other two stores always on his shopping itineraries, as we mainly tend to pick the sales, and he’s learned which stores most often have the best fresh produce on his list.   Holy hell!  Full parking lots at both Slaveway and City Market, and he found roughly the same shelves…empty.  I just phoned the Family Dollar store in Mancos…sold out of toilet paper and kleenex.  I’d forgotten until now that none of the wage slaves had mentioned bottled water, but that would be top on my list were I/we hoarding.

Now Mr. wd looked up corona virus cases in Colorado, and while most are on the Eastern Slope mega-cities, the closest to the 4-Corners was in Gunnison on the Western Slope, maybe 250 miles away.  So what’s with the panic all of a sudden?  The evening news reports, social media panic, the conflicting reports as to the spread of positive tests?  My favorite tankie in Queens on Twitter is reporting that grocery stores in his neighborhood are calm and quiet with shelves full, or ready to be restocked.  And sigh, he’s Tweeted the story of the National Guard being called in to ‘help’ in New Rochelle.  Do stories like that help cause Hoarding Panic?

Bingling Coronavirus Hoarding did kick up this Reuters piece from 16 days ago, my favorite excerpt being:

“Pandemic shopping lists have been going around online, with virologist Ian Mackay suggesting people not forget treats like soft drinks and chocolate alongside the grains and pasta.

“But don’t panic buy and don’t hoard!” Mackay, an associate professor at the University of Queensland in Australia, said in his blog post, “So you think you’re about to be in a pandemic?”

Again: not word one about Water, the Staff of Life.  But apparently Walmart stores will close in the late evenings so that wage slaves can re-stock the shelves, re-open in the morning, and Costco will limit purchase of some items, never mind how easy that rule is to subvert.

Aha!  While Bingling moments ago for photos of corona virus and empty shelves I found one at cbc.ca/radio,  March 3, 2010: ‘Herd effect’: Social media images of empty shelves fuelling panic buying over coronavirus, says prof; ‘You need to have a sensible plan — how much toilet paper do you really need for a week,’ asks prof’

“Someone will post images on Instagram or on social media of overstuffed shopping carts and empty shelves in department stores,” said Steven Taylor, a professor at UBC and author of The Psychology of Pandemics: Preparing for the Next Global Outbreak.

“And that’s going to go viral and that’s going to create the illusion of urgency and scarcity, and that’s going to ramp up the panic buying.”

Are you hoarding?  If so,  I hope you’ve included water, as well as anti-viral/anti-bacterial home health aids.

(cross-posted from Café Babylon)

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Anja Geitz's picture

When I'm stocking shelves at Trader Joe's. Smile

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28 users have voted.

There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

WoodsDweller's picture

when you fail to establish roadblocks early on. Wave the supply trucks through, but stop them durned urbanites with a hail of righteous lead!
I went on a supply run Thursday, but it looks like things have deteriorated since then.
I expect things will ease up in a few days. There aren't any intrinsic shortages, except probably for sanitizer and face masks.
Shopping is the solution to all things in our broken civilization, so TP has become the magic talisman to ward off the plague.
If only people realized that the real solution to all things is nationalizing the banks ... oh, well, better luck next civilization.

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30 users have voted.

"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett

Lookout's picture

Lots of folks with buggies chock full. We have a well, so water isn't an issue for us. I bought frozen organic veggies and a pack of frozen salmon as well as wine and beer. We have some more greens to harvest, so I'm feeling food secure. I'm wearing gloves to shop... just to avoid touching the ATM, carts and check out scene. There are a few cases in Rome GA not too far away. I'm not fearful about it, but currently trying to avoid exposure. Made up some Clorox water as a antiseptic. We use soap instead of hand sanitizer.

The world has changed.

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27 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

edg's picture

@Lookout

How do you do power your well pump if power is lost? Or are you self-sufficient?

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Lookout's picture

@edg

...and a double male heavy gauge wire for the 220 needed.

I'm on TVA nuclear and hydro power. Not likely to disappear in my life time. I have it for storm outages. We were without power for over a week in 1993 when we had a blizzard. Used the generator then. Would use and collect all our water within a window, and then cut off the generator (loud and polluting monster that it is).

I think of myself as a homesteader. The motto of homesteaders? Make do or do without. We also have a spring, but it would be a hassle to use as a water source. However it would be possible in a true long term collapse. Part of the reason we located here on Lookout.

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18 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Raggedy Ann's picture

@Lookout
on our new well. I'm so happy we did. The water is excellent, too - very drinkable, which was not the case with the old well!

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"The secret of change is to focus all your energy, not on fighting the old, but on building the new." Socrates (469-399 BC)

Lookout's picture

@Raggedy Ann

Such a good idea. Glad your project is so successful. Drilling a well is always a shot in the dark unless depth is not an issue, and when you pay by the foot it is.

So glad to hear it has worked out so "well" for you!

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7 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

edg's picture

@Lookout

Being in Arizona, I could be totally solar-powered. Maybe someday. As for a well, it's possible. Our water table is just 100 feet down. But there's a community well two miles away. And collected rainwater would actually be enough for me and my wife.

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Lookout's picture

@edg

Not to drink but to water the garden.

I posted this awhile back but it sure made me think about the difference of where I live and where you are...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcAMXm9zITg 52 min

He has many clever water capture ideas...

When Brad Lancaster and his brother bought their home in downtown Tucson, the streetscape was a dusty place, devoid of trees or any vegetation.

In 1996 Lancaster and his neighbors started an annual tree planting project, which up until now has resulted in over 1,400 native food-bearing trees being planted (usually with water-harvesting earthworks) in the neighborhood. In 2004, Lancaster augmented the street tree planting by using a 14-inch, gas powered circular saw to cut away part of his curb to divert street runoff into his street-side tree basins. When the walkway in front of his home sprouted with life- like mesquite and palo verde trees- many of his neighbors wanted to cut their curbs as well. Lancaster approached the city to convince them to make his water-harvesting technique legal. It took three years for the city to change the rules. Today, three quarters of the neighbors on his block are harvesting rainwater.

Tucson receives just 11 inches of rainwater per year, but Brad argues this is enough. “Tucson has over a 4,000 year history of continuous farming despite this being a drylands desert community. People thrived creating crops, domesticating crops that are uniquely adapted to this climate, but in less than 100 years we almost wiped it out by becoming reliant on very extractive pumps, extracting the groundwater, diverting the river to the extent that we actually killed our river, we dropped our groundwater table over 300 feet so we didn’t want to plug into that paradigm.”

Today, Lancaster’s downtown Tucson neighborhood (Dunbar/Spring) is alive with drought-tolerant, food-bearing trees and residents harvest from the barrel cactus (chutneys, hair conditioner from fruit), the prickly pear cactus (juice, syrup & natural sweeteners from fruit), the ironwood tree (peanut-flavored nuts, processed like edamame), jojoba (oil, coffee substitute), mesquite (“native carob”, flour) and sweets from the “iconic saguaro cactus”.

Lancaster’s experimentation continues on his property: he calls the 1/8th of an acre site he shares with his brother’s family, his “living laboratory”. Here he plants around the greywater from his outdoor shower, bathtub and washing machine. He captures 100,000 gallons of rainwater per year on their property and surrounding public right-of-way. He cooks with a solar oven and heats his water using a 2 salvaged, conventional gas heaters stripped of insulation, painted black, and put in an insulated box with glass facing south to collect the sun’s rays.

Lancaster converted the old garage on the property into his 200-square-foot “garottage” (garage + cottage) or “shondo” (shed + condo). Nearly all the wood and materials are salvaged. The garage’s original cinder block walls weren’t insulated so he added 2 inches of foam insulation on the exterior to create “ex-sulation”. Lancaster relies mostly on passive solar to heat and cool his home, though he uses an evaporative cooler (swamp cooler) on hotter evenings. His kitchen is outside: a rainwater-plumbed sink, a hacked chest-freezer-turned-refrigerator and a propane camping stove.

His toilet is another experiment. “You can currently get a compost toilet that is manufactured and NSF-approved, but it costs $3000 or more. So we wanted to try making some site-built models that only cost $300 for which we got experimental permits.” His models include a urine-diverting barrel-style compost toilet (the urine is diluted to water plants and the fecal matter sits and composts for a year or more before being used as fertilizer) and a water-less standing urinal.

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9 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

@Lookout
But there is no logic behind it.
They are hoarding stuff that has the least chance of running out.

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Lookout's picture

@gjohnsit

Why toilet paper? Are we so full of shit that it is our preoccupation? you might enjoy the Jonathon Pie clip in my piece today where he suggests a theory...

Hope you are well and in a good situation. Be healthy!

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12 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

mhagle's picture

@Lookout

A friend of mine (from MN) said she needs to start saving those newspaper flyers she gets in the mail. The old time solution. LOL

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6 users have voted.

Marilyn

"Make dirt, not war." eyo

so not that big of a change now. I've been ready for a long time. My big concern was getting viable seeds for my garden this year, I have taken care of that a couple of days ago. Will start all my plants from seed.

I've had people look at me strangely and shake their heads when I tell them I prep. Same with the time and work I put into gardening, canning and preserving. Some tell me I'm crazy when you can just buy that food cheaply and don't have to put the labor into preserving it. I do put a lot of work into it, but I find it greatly rewarding. I'll put in an extra large garden this year.

Coronavirus hoarding? Welcome to my world.

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Pricknick's picture

@JtC
My gardening and canning skills have made me mostly self sufficient as far as veggies go. As for seeds, I have always proccessed my own every fall and never need to buy them. I also have access to a large supply of grass fed beef and free range chickens if I ever empty my freezer. I breed my own feminized marijuana seeds so there's never a lack of recreational and medicinal herb. Also on a very good well so water isn't an issue. I installed a hand pump on the system so if need be I can manually pump water.
I don't call it prepping. I call it common sense.

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29 users have voted.

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Lookout's picture

@JtC

In our household we've felt there was a collapse coming for quite a while. Despite expecting it, it feels weird to finally be in it. What little retirement funds we had in the market, I pulled out a couple of years ago.

Be well my friend. Happy gardening!

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24 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

edg's picture

@JtC

I have a philosophical misgiving about prepping. Do I really want to keep living in a world that's vastly different from my current world? Is staying alive so important to me that I will take drastic measures to do so, even when virtually everything I enjoy and everyone I love has been destroyed? It doesn't keep me awake at nights, but I do think about it whenever the crisis of the week hits the news.

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15 users have voted.

@edg
do occasionally get those same misgivings. I think of my son and grand daughter and poof, the misgivings go away. I'll be 66 in a few days, my survival doesn't mean much, but I'd sure like to get them through whatever is headed our way.

There's always the chance that the next world, built from the ashes of this one, will be a better place. I nod in your direction that it is a slim chance, but a chance none the less.

Civilizations come and go. Fatalism be damned.

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edg's picture

@JtC

So that affects my thinking. Also, since I live a couple thousand miles away from my few remaining relatives, I doubt I'd be much help to them in a crisis.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

@edg

I have a philosophical misgiving about prepping. Do I really want to keep living in a world that's vastly different from my current world? Is staying alive so important to me that I will take drastic measures to do so, even when virtually everything I enjoy and everyone I love has been destroyed? It doesn't keep me awake at nights, but I do think about it whenever the crisis of the week hits the news.

This is the only attitude appropriate for those, like myself, who never had access to land, no matter how hard we worked. A piece of acreage with enough resources to make prepping a sensible or tenable proposition means a net worth in the $250,000 - $500,000 range at minimum. The real 99%, those who struggle just to rent a cheap apartment, need not apply.

Bad

edit: Most professional farmers know this drill painfully well. The phrase they use to describe it is "land rich, cash poor".

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16 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@thanatokephaloides

till I realized that there's a whole different version of prepping: basically having a good emergency pantry in case a hurricane or another emergency comes through. It was top on my list of things to do this year: establish an emergency pantry. I'm really irritated at my continual bad timing. One more freakin' year and I would have been able to contemplate at least that part of this situation with far greater aplomb.

As for governmental action against hoarding, well, there are many many things they could have done in addition to or instead of a hail of bullets directed at suburbanite hoarders--if we, in fact, had a government. I think about the 30s and FDR and the relationship the people had to the government then, at least reputedly, and I can imagine the government setting up schedules of buying and selling, by region, as well as supply drops paid for by the government, also scheduled by region. I mean, there's a million damned things we COULD do. But then, if powerful people gave a shit, we would already be far more resilient: the government could have been encouraging rather than discouraging local resilience for decades now. In CSTMSWorld, the government would have been encouraging decentralized electricity generation from a variety of sources, victory gardens and urban farms, rain barrels and community co-ops. Government could provide all manner of incentives including subsidizing the cost of installing such things.

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20 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

WoodsDweller's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

imagine the government setting up schedules of buying and selling,

We could call them "ration books".
I think this is just a short term bit of silliness, but if it persists there will need to be some form of rationing. Stores are trying to self ration "no more than five sanitizers per person", "no more than two cleaning products per person". I guess we'll have to see if everybody keeps buying TP after they've filled the spare bedroom with it. My guess is no, but popular culture passeth my understanding.

Will Trump propose a bailout for the TP industry as it crashes because nobody buys any for a year?

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"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett

Lily O Lady's picture

@WoodsDweller

is a rash of house TP-ing.

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11 users have voted.

"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

@Lily O Lady The White House or Merde-lardo might be appropriate venue.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

@Lily O Lady

.... would be an excellent TP candidate!! Biggrin

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7 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@WoodsDweller

I never thought about ration books in just that way before.

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3 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

edg's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

Capitalism precludes attainment of CSTMSWorld. There's little profit to be extracted if the small people are locally resilient.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

@edg

Capitalism precludes attainment of CSTMSWorld. There's little profit to be extracted if the small people are locally resilient.

This also explains why so many 99%ers, like me, have no hope of access to our own arable land no matter what we do, how we plan, or how we conduct ourselves.

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10 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@edg

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1 user has voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

@edg

have a shot at living in something much *better* than our current world - or at least providing the opportunity for succeeding generations to do so.

And if our current world wasn't so warped, prepping would not be a novelty, it would be part of the fabric of existence.

"Siempre Listo!/"Be Prepared!"

- the Boy Scout motto

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mhagle's picture

@JtC

My first batch of onions went in the ground in January. Trying something new as always. I use the little catsup cups with lids to sprout my seeds first. Then I plant them in Jiffy peat pots or some directly into my 3-year-old haybales amended with horse poop. For tomatoes, I have 216 plants. Gave away about 20 today.

I am endeavoring to reach your standard!!!!!!

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12 users have voted.

Marilyn

"Make dirt, not war." eyo

@JtC

Don't you know that makes you a paranoid, wacko, delusional, gun-loving, white supremacist (even if you're black) likely to trigger normal people if they even have to acknowledge your existence?

Well, unless you're an upper one percent bazillionaire, in which case it's perfectly normal and acceptable.

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ppnortney's picture

@Blue Republic

reveals something incredibly disgusting, the blithe indifference of these bunker people to other human beings - the ones whose standard of living they're depressing where they're building these bolt holes and the ones they will casually leave behind to deal with the collapse they undoubtedly are contributing to.

Truly, who would want to survive in a world with such sociopaths running things more than they already are. My brother always says that if there's ever a nuclear war, he hopes he's at ground zero; I feel the same way but would broaden it to include any type of severe collapse of civilization.

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The smaller the mind the greater the conceit. --Aesop

Shahryar's picture

I was thinking that toilet paper is the current version of Cabbage Patch Kids. People have to have 'em'! Then a little bit later they look at what they've got and shrug, saying to themselves "well that was weird".

It reminds me of the scene in Blow Up, where Hemmings finds himself in the club listening to the Yardbirds. Jeff Beck destroys his guitar, a la Townsend, throws the guitar neck into the crowd, there's a mad scramble for it, Hemmings gets it, runs outside with it, looks at it, realizes it's worthless, drops it and walks away.

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edg's picture

@Shahryar

$73,500.00 -- PETE TOWNSHEND THE WHO SMASHED & SIGNED 1965 FENDER STRATOCASTER GUITAR

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Pricknick's picture

@edg
of human stupidity.
Rates up there with duct taped banana.

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16 users have voted.

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

edg's picture

@Pricknick

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RantingRooster's picture

and was quite surprised by quite a few empty shelves. I thought to myself, gee, are we a 3rd world country?

Of course there's never enough pot roast beef microwave dinners, whether there's a virus or not. Not to mention not enough cranapple juice, like EVER! I generally have to go to two or more stores to get the things I need just to survive a week, without "panic buying". Of course with only about $50 to live on a week, one can't afford much. The studios supply toilet paper and paper towels, so I'm good...

There was a mood / tension in store that was obvious to me. I generally try to shop when most people are not shopping, but yesterday seemed, well, not "normal".

After reading Gustave Le Bon's book, Psychology of Crowds, that was enough for me to shun crowds altogether, as much as possible, and when ever possible.

In this clear and vivid book, Gustave Le Bon throws light on the unconscious irrational workings of a group thought and mass emotion as he places crowd ideology in opposition to free-thinking and independent minded individuals. He shows how the behaviour of an individual changes when part of the crowd. Le Bon concludes his work with a prophetic vision of the destruction of civilization.

Drinks

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16 users have voted.

"Men who look upon themselves born to reign, and others to obey, soon grow insolent; selected from the rest of mankind their minds are early poisoned by importance;" - Thomas Paine, Common Sense

Hoarding toilet paper is idiotic, but this hoarding makes sense.

As the stock market was having its worst day in 30 years on Thursday, customers at a Bank of America branch in Midtown Manhattan, the financial heart of New York, were lining up to take cash out of their accounts — sometimes tens of thousands of dollars at a time.

So many people sought huge sums that the bank branch, at 52nd Street and Park Avenue, temporarily ran out of $100 bills to fulfill large withdrawals, according to three people familiar with the branch’s operations. The shortage hit after a rash of requests for as much as $50,000, said two people who witnessed the rush.

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edg's picture

@gjohnsit

It transfers germs from person to person and would rapidly accelerate the spread of any serious disease. No face-to-face business that wanted to survive could accept anything other than electronic money. Or maybe gold, which can be sterilized fairly easily.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

@edg

Hoarding paper money is idiotic, too. It transfers germs from person to person and would rapidly accelerate the spread of any serious disease.

Gives a whole new sense to the term "money laundering"!! Biggrin

No face-to-face business that wanted to survive could accept anything other than electronic money. Or maybe gold, which can be sterilized fairly easily.

Or silver and solid copper, which disinfect themselves....

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5 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

@edg

getting rid of cash is the authoritarian's ticket to total control.

And on a practical level, what happens when networks go down, or someone with with high-enough level access to the system decides to delete or de-authorize you?

Last year in Japan when there was a typhoon followed by a major earthquake in Hokkaido cell phone and POS networks were down, so those people relying on e-money were SOL as were businesses that couldn't handle cash transactions...

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WoodsDweller's picture

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12 users have voted.

"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett

@WoodsDweller

Italy is in the midst of an unspeakable catastrophe that is coming here in days, yet masses of people are still in denial.

Doesn’t leave much hope humanity is capable of responding to the threat of climate change, the worst of which is more than a week away.

that the worst of global climate change is still more than a week away, according to Algore it should have kicked in what, 10 or 12 years ago? We've been living on borrowed time!

On the off chance the planet doesn't burn up by next week, though, surviving this Covid-19 is going to be more than a little challenging, especially in places like the UK, Japan and US where the leadership has responded slowly and cluelessly and people not much less so. (and even more challenging in third world countries where health care is inadequate even in "normal" times)

Prime minister here in Japan was trying to reassure people yesterday or day before saying "We have 3000 ventilators!"

Which is about what Italy has - where it went from calm to one of the best healthcare systems in the world being overwhelmed. In about ten days.

Right. Totally reassuring...

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mimi's picture

1. Why buy bottled water at huge prices, if you have tap water and can boil it?
2. I have well water, but need electricity to have pumped it up and get it
3. If electricity would be off for several days, how would I get my well water pumped out? I would think a solar panel that produces the electricity to pump up the water?
4. How to convert the well to one with which I could manually pump the water out of it?
5. If gas is cut off, I can' heat the house anymore, but I would have enough wood to heat a room via a fireplace and a woodburner.

What I don't know is what comes first. I don't have a generator. So I would have to buy a generator and then hoard the gasoline, which then would be used for the generator to produce electricity?

I do believe that our well water is much better than our tap water. I can thank my mother to have designed the garden, which luckily had a deep well. The house had originally too an ironcast stove in the basement that one could use for cooking if there were no electricity. Unfortunately that one is gone. So the stupids were us to not imagine we would need that stove again some fourty years ago.

So how much cash to withdraw from banks, that would be morally responsible and would show enough solidarity to your the next fellow neighbor? I can't make up my mind up about that.

take care.

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Please donate to C99p so that the site can survive.

Lookout's picture

@mimi

Germany has reliable power and likely (Russian) gas. Your country is more functional than the US. They have been honest with you that 70+% of Germans will get COVID-19. Older folks like us are most at risk. Things will go on. If 70% get it that means 30% will not.

Your other questions could be addressed later on a manageable level. Don't fret. Stress is really bad for your immunity.

Spend time in your garden/forest and soak the healing vibes of nature. Drink deep from your well.

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8 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

@mimi

Why should city/county water, electricity and home heating gas supplies be destroyed by a virus? A long time ago I used to buy primo water from an excellent food coop, but circumstances changed, so in recent years I've been filtering tap water through Brita filters. Why are people stocking up on water?

I can see stocking up on food, medications, comfort stuff like alcohol & munchies, and personal maintenance products, but water, electricity and gas? If the entire system were to collapse, sure. But at this point? Why?

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10 users have voted.

Lurking in the wings is Hillary, like some terrifying bat hanging by her feet in a cavern below the DNC. A bat with theropod instincts. -- Fred Reed https://tinyurl.com/vgvuhcl

edg's picture

@mimi

Is your well a traditional well? If so, can you use a bucket to pull up water? If you just need electricity for the well pump, solar panels are sufficient. Store the water in your bathtub, hot water heater, or other large containers like 100 liter trash cans.

But really, what are you expecting? The Zombie Apocalypse? Coronavirus isn't going to cause the disaster movie scenario you outlined. There will be plenty of young people to keep the utilities running even if all the alte Leute die.

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6 users have voted.
WoodsDweller's picture

@mimi
This is a "sit at home, watch cartoons, and eat cookies" kind of emergency. Your utilities should not be interrupted, money will still be presumed to have value. Just some interruption to our collective routines, some of which will be inconvenient. And of course, a somewhat increased chance of death.
We'll wait for the climate impacts to become obvious before a full freak out will be in order, and if that happens no amount of prepping will matter.
So focus on the cookies and let everything else take its course.

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7 users have voted.

"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett

I went to the Petsmarket up the street and while busy (Saturday morning), they were well stocked and many employees working. Hey, Obama thought it was okay to eat pet food when he set up the Pet Food Commission. We have two cats and one big Black Russian Terrier. The cats were abandoned and they fooled us into taking them in.

I now wear hospital gloves where I go. No maskes. My doctor's clinic had to lock their masks up as patients were taking bunches. Heard this from a buddy at work also at his doctor clinic.

Did my stock up shopping on Februrary 29 Saturday. Sheleves well stocked and no body panic buying except for me buying bunch of tuna. Sorta busy in the morning as I believe SNAP cards were allocated money (Trump is still going ahead and will deny 700,000 people benefits--the level of their sadism even sill shocks me now and then.)

But yesterday while in the liquor store some people said lines at the place I went two weeks earlier were insane. Going back to liquor store to get some boxed wine for the duration. And then some more cat food.

The big companies around the area are just telling their workers to work at home if they can. Microsoft in WA is going to keep paying staff who cannot work at home but who are being told not to come in. Hopefully other companies can do the same.

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13 users have voted.
edg's picture

@MrWebster

Every single roll of toilet paper had sold out. Yet the shelves were full of cat litter. Are people planning to push poor old Fluffy out the door when she needs to poop?

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7 users have voted.
Granma's picture

@MrWebster food stamp cuts, put a (hmm can't think of word) hold on that. So that is a bit of good news.

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10 users have voted.
WoodsDweller's picture

UK puts people over 70 on ‘wartime’ lockdown for four months

“People aged over 70 in Britain will be asked to stay in strict isolation at home or in care homes for up to 4 months under a radical new plan to prevent them from catching the coronavirus,”

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12 users have voted.

"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett

edg's picture

@WoodsDweller

Instead, Republicans and Democrats will pass bipartisan legislation that solves the entitlement crisis by forcing people over 70 out into the street to be sprayed with coronavirus.

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10 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@edg

given that most of their voting base is over 50. Which is not to say that everybody over 50 is part of their voting base.

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1 user has voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

GreatLakeSailor's picture

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The empty spot here is where they sell eggs. All the eggs are gone. All.
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The Liquor Department was well stocked. Priorities people!
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14 users have voted.

Compensated Spokes Model for Big Poor & Big Peace.

Lookout's picture

@GreatLakeSailor

...but only one Hogly Wogly's - reads the sign on a grocery on Sand mountain... but in doing a search I see there are many from BBQ http://hoglywogly.com/ to convenience stores https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hogly-Wogly/152592224751860

You can't believe advertising. What was I thinking?

PS Sand Mt is also home to the Guns and Banjo store. You sell someone a banjo. Then their neighbor comes in and buys a gun.

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10 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@GreatLakeSailor

If people are scared that somebody with coronavirus touched the eggs, boil 'em!

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2 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

I had to work today, managed to send out 3 emails, prepare a divorce petition, a counterclaim in a breach of contract case, a complicated Will, researched bond reductions writs, corrected opposing counsels Final Decree of Divorce, then headed to the store to purchase something for my staff to eat for lunch tomorrow. I quickly forgot the idea of stuffed baked potatoes, as there were no potatoes.
I had in mind 3 kinds of meats to buy, got the last package of those 3 items. I told the store manager I wanted to raise hell about her grocery stocking shortcomings, and she laughed, said "It all comes tomorrow!"
They had a noticeable shortage on every brand of beer but mine, so I will just call it good. If I am put under some imposed quarantine, I will call the County Judge and tell him to get me an exemption or there will be no peace in the valley. Or something along those lines.
Stay well, my friend.

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11 users have voted.
Lookout's picture

@on the cusp

we will get to the other side one way or the other. Don't work too hard nor get too stressed. I admire all your work. I would get stressed in that situation, but so would most people dealing with a herd of 13 YO which is comfortable to me.

Be well friend and thanks for your efforts to help those in need. Sorry about the travel issues, but I think we'll see better things on that front next year after a vaccine.

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9 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

@Lookout I can handle it. It actually kicks things up a couple of notches for me.
If it was going to kill me, it would have long ago.
I couldn't write down ideas for lines of questioning, various motions fast enough! lol!
The parents survived the Great Depression, so I will deal with whatever comes.
I have 4 trips planned this year, a total of 8 countries. The trips start in September, the trip to Italy scheduled for next week is the only one cancelled by the tour company so far.
We shall see.
Foreign countries might soon require a vaccination proof document. That would be a problem.
I was telling someone just today that I do not accept being put in place.
I pick my on place.
We will make it through this mess.

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7 users have voted.
Lookout's picture

@on the cusp

We will make it through this mess.

None of us are ten foot tall and bullet proof, but even if we do get the virus most (80%) only have fever and aches. Panic is a bad idea despite the pandemic. So glad to have a rational c99 community to go through this situation.

Maybe things will be very different next fall and your trip(s) can happen.

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7 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

wendy davis's picture

edited for typos:

nothing that some TP and tissue wouldn't cure. mr. wd had read me 11 or so comments earlier, and it seemed like most of you aren't hoarding, but prepared thru self-sufficiency, gardens anx animals, even with deep water wells.

now that i can read and type with one eye, my heggache is still as big as the eggplnant that ate chicago, i have no recourse but to get off-line again.

my best to all to us, although how far this virus has been weaponized (nationally, supranationally) is still up for grabs is one of the largest Qs i have.

love to you all,
wd

sorry for typos.

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8 users have voted.

@wendy davis

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5 users have voted.

Lurking in the wings is Hillary, like some terrifying bat hanging by her feet in a cavern below the DNC. A bat with theropod instincts. -- Fred Reed https://tinyurl.com/vgvuhcl

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@wendy davis

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0 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

shaharazade's picture

The vibes in the stores scare me more then the virus. We went weekly shopping on Wednesday. oldie discount day, it was insane. The fear was palatable. My urban brain went insane. Too late to be a prepper or a rural gardener. I may be an urban SE Portland dweller who's totally dependent on city water, electric gas, etc. but I have converted our small yard into an organic no lawn food growing small plot. Guess I need to get out there and plant.

Went to the local(now owned by a Koren investor)store which reeked of disinfectant and got caught up in how much food can I stockpile mode. Scary that. The toilet paper situation brought me back to some semblance of sanity. Me and another woman we're gaping at the empty shelf and she said not my priority in these days of mass insanity. We live simply in an old 1914 house and have a small refrigerator, a small pantry and not much storage space. We work from home so half our house is office, work space. We walk daily to buy fresh food normally. What is normal, these days? Nothing.

Anyway after this stockpiling panic induced spree I was checking out and alarms went off, both flashing lights and screaming noise. It was a false alarm fire thing. We all trouped outside and then back in to proceed with our shopping. It was kind of an reality check as all of us bonded and madly washed our hands with goo and chatted about why canned beans and toilet paper were being hoarded. Made me like people as we all bonded and most were hip to the fear jive.

Fear sucks. It makes people even more nuts then they are by nature, which is plenty nuts. So I guess if this is the end of the world as we know it so be it. Me I doubt it. This to will pass. Course what we will be left with is the smoldering embers of a disaster capitalistic world gone bad. Guess I'll go get lot's water in big nasty plastic bottles. Where will I put them? Oh well meanwhile my street a very very fine street looks and feels, uh oh not quite normal. Maybe that's good as normal these days is not what it's cranked up to be. So lot's of us are stuck in the reality we find ourselves in be it urban, suburban or rural. Face it were all in the same boat.

Is this boat real? Partly. But partly cooked up by manufactured fear. Hope I got enough chard and baby boc choy to last the duration. Vinegar, garlic, thyme, sage, lemons and hydrogen bleach among other natural anti-viral items that are cheap and effective. Oh yeah don't forget ginger, wild unfiltered honey, oregano, turmeric and whatever. See you on the other side if and when it comes to pass.

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10 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@shaharazade

I don't think the grid will shut down. That said, this does underline how much nicer it would be to have our electricity controlled at a personal or neighborhood level. I've always hated the "big giant centralized power plant" model, except when absolutely necessary (is it ever absolutely necessary?)

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1 user has voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

mimi's picture

I am neither too scared, nor hysterical, read and listen here and have my brain doing its work.

Thanks for your answers to my questions and don't worry about me thinking out loud. I can also think out silently. No problem. Smile

Take care.

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1 user has voted.

Please donate to C99p so that the site can survive.

zett's picture

I inherited the home place from the folks (co heirs with my brother)and for the first time I feel rich being up in the head of a holler in WV. I have a spring that to my knowledge has never gone dry, 100 acres of tree leaves when I run out of TP, and could shoot wildlife to eat if I had to. I better go ahead and invest in that 12 foot fence and get a garden in like I've been meaning to do.

Land rich, cash poor never sounded so good.

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6 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@zett

Congrats, man. Hold on to that land and water.

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5 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

@zett Me too. Got 13 acres in western Washington (yes, ground 'zero' or something is across the Sound in Seattle). Water comes from a deep well. Farmed the land for a long time and sold the produce in a weekly CSA. Now kinda retired, have the land, the seeds, the ability, and am growing things for myself and my family and friends. Money? Nope, but I have the land.

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1 user has voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

days ago didn't come due to logistical BS from FedEx. I *tried* to be prepared by finding a recipe for hand sanitizer and buying the ingredients. The vegetable glycerin came, but the alcohol didn't. I got one of those little door tags from Fed Ex. Fed Ex wants us to go to Ocala to buy the alcohol. I'm gonna have to get a refund, cause I'm sure as hell not going to visit some big bustling Fed Ex center right now.

They should learn to ring a damned doorbell.

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3 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

Sorry, I can't find who it was here that mentioned picking up over the counter meds for pain and fever.

You might want to be careful with those.

Watching Dr. John Campbell's Covid-19 coverage today for March 15th he mentions that some common types that are often taken to relieve pan and reduce inflammation *may* increase the severity of the disease.

Comments about that are from about 9:15

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1 user has voted.
wendy davis's picture

and brought your own stories and ways of ameliorating any unfulfiled 'wants'.

water can be very crucial, say in baltimore and other locales where no amount of boiling, filtering can take out toxic chemicals and heavy metals. likewise, some wells. in the southern part of la plata county east of us, the tap water is so full of methane it can be it on fire. fracking is the theory.

@anja geitz: trader joe's may pay and treat their employees far better than the three stores in cortez. walmart employees are only scheduled for just under 40 hrs so that the fucking waltons need not provide them with any benefits, and many are eligible for food stamps (what's left of SNAP).

i'm quite a bit better this a.m., although still a bit on the stomach-wonky side; thank you. every now and again i get massive headaches, and sometimes related (although not always), my field of vision fills with C-shapes lined with jagged prisms, very colorful but hard to see thru, let's say. other times, my left eye pretty much goes AWOL, and reading and typing are almost impossible. wish i knew how to type, and that nine of the keys weren't worn off.
; )

but sure, let's put everyone over 70 in concentration camps, boris johnson.

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1 user has voted.
WoodsDweller's picture

@wendy davis
They're called "ocular migraines". Search for that term and look at images.
It just started for me a few years ago. I never, and I mean never get headaches. When the jaggies are in color I don't have a headache, but a few months back they started coming sometimes in greyscale, those will give me a headache. Happily, they only last a few minutes for me.
Hope you feel better!

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1 user has voted.

"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett

wendy davis's picture

@WoodsDweller

i'll say sometimes, but not always the prisms accompany epic hegg-aches, although i dunno i've ever has grey-scale ones. nor do the hegg-aches always shut down my left-eye's vision, but i have learned to get the fuck off-line, lol.

i had a whole verbal stutter thing goin' on year or so ago, and a washington deecee friend (his wife was one of nancy pelosis's attorneys) stopped visiting cuz he was so afraid i had a brain tumor and would pop my clogs soon. fooled him! the stutters finally left; don't i talk good now?!? it may have been all the ground high CBD cannabis i swallow that turned the trick; i dunno.

i will, i do, and you, too. #U2.

i use a lot of X-strength stopain spray on the back of my neck, and a Ma roller, other home health neuro-muscular release aides.

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2 users have voted.
WoodsDweller's picture

@wendy davis @wendy davis @wendy davis
There is no treatment for the ocular migraines themselves, only for the associated headaches. I will get a little dizzy with the colorful ones, not at all with the B&W ones.

EDIT:
Here's a search link to some images. Are these the sort of things you see?
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=ocular+migraine&t=hz&iax=images&ia=images

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0 users have voted.

"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett

wendy davis's picture

@WoodsDweller

this one's the closest, although mine are shaped like Euro signs without the middle bar, and are far prettier, as in gentler, more rainbowish colors.

i get vertigo at times (no fun on a crutch), but it's separate from the rainbow eyes and hegg-aches. by now, i'm sooooo glad that our hogan is small (900 sq ft.): lots of hand-holds, lol.

thanks a lot, amigo.

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1 user has voted.

@wendy davis . What you describe sounds like classic migraine, from the visual disturbances to the massive headache to the upset stomach. I had frequent and severe migraines throughout my 30s and 40s. It's hell, Wendy, and you don't have to put up with it anymore. The newer medications really do help. See a doctor and describe what's happening. From your description, odds are it's migraine or other headaches in the migraine family, such as cluster headaches. These are all vascular headaches.

Do a web search on migraine. Typically, migraines start with a prodrome or aura, essentially a warning signal from your body. Classic migraines often begin with visual disturbances, such as zigzag lines, although there can be other types of podrome. I used to get sudden sleepiness, physical clumsiness, and a sense that something was about to happen. The prodrome is caused by a massive vasoconstriction in the brain, and the particular symptom indicates the location of the constriction. It travels in a wave called a spreading depression. Then comes the pain. The pain is caused by a sudden dilation of blood vessels in the brain. It is usually one-sided and throbbing. Mine felt like an ice pic stabbed through my right eye down to the back of my head right above the neck. Nausea and vomiting are not uncommon -- and can last for hours. Great fun. The doctors eventually determined that the migraines aligned with my menstrual cycle. It gets better after menopause. Nowadays, if I feel a prodrome, I take either a half or whole imitrex tab, and it's usually gone within an hour.

But it could be something else, so you really do need to get it checked out.

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1 user has voted.

Lurking in the wings is Hillary, like some terrifying bat hanging by her feet in a cavern below the DNC. A bat with theropod instincts. -- Fred Reed https://tinyurl.com/vgvuhcl

wendy davis's picture

@laurel

thank you for all that detailed information! i'm glad you've discovered that imitrex works; some of my bodywork clients used to take it, to greater or lesser degrees of effect for migraines and cluster hegg-acches (accompanying weeping eyes. iirc, there's even a nasal spray, some found more helpful.

but the truth is, i'll never go to a doc or dentist again, as i've been the recipient of so much medical malpractice over my lifetime (my parents as well; we must be jonahs or something).

it's a a very long and boring story, but the last doc i saw was a surgeon who barely kinda/sorta fixed my knee, and when i woke up i had no memory left at all. it took me years to try to rewire some of the circuits with alternative methods. a second calamity happened to my other knee a few years later and who, nellie! no surgery for me! (even if we could have afforded it...)

but i do thank you for your info and concern, laurel. oh, and i do take one motrin (ibuprofin) a day, but i'm not worried about cornona virus, lol. and we eat a lot of east indian food now: turmeric is good for inflammation, and so on.

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0 users have voted.

what it might be, @wendy davis , so you can focus alternative remedies on that.

As for post-operative cognitive decline, I too experienced it after a string of orthopedic surgeries, all of which required general anesthesia. Mine lasted several very strange months and led to my decision of "no more general surgery." We need our brains, you know? Maybe someday they'll come up with anesthesia that doesn't harm the brain. Also, when Biden reappeared about a year ago with a brand new face and no brain, I saw the possible connection - but of course no one has brought it up.

Good luck with it!

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0 users have voted.

Lurking in the wings is Hillary, like some terrifying bat hanging by her feet in a cavern below the DNC. A bat with theropod instincts. -- Fred Reed https://tinyurl.com/vgvuhcl

wendy davis's picture

@laurel

"A mind is a terrible thing too lose." ~Dubya Bush.

well, i done lost mine long ago, and it won't be too long before y'all laugh me off the Intertubes. 'bout all i can do now is copy/paste stuff together, as re-writing is far too rough to keep to any accuracy whatsoever.

cold comfort: at least i'm not as far gone as Dementia Joe. (she sayed hopefully...)

i will say that cancer cure have gotten far more targeted than the barbaric, scatter-shot treatments in years past. one neighbor was in an experimental program where his leukemia (iirc) was targeted on a sub-molecular level, or so his wife said, and a year later...he's still keepin' on.

best to you, too, laurel

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1 user has voted.
ppnortney's picture

@wendy davis @wendy davis

That may or may not be useful to people but I'll put them out there.

One is something a nurse told me about one of the medications that anesthesiologists use as part of the mix they give you before surgery, this one intended to keep you from feeling anxious during the procedure. But this can cause memory loss - my brother experienced this - and the nurse friend said she always declined its use if she ever had to be put under. The information doesn't help you after the fact if that's indeed what happened to you, but it sure got my attention, that kind of "help" I can do without.

Second, my mother started having migraines in her 40s to 50s; her doctor thought it was caused by her eyes not producing enough tears and recommended eye drops. No more migraines after she started regularly using them. And in the last few years of her life her tear ducts quit producing at all (she had "implants" a couple of times) so maybe that doctor was onto something.

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1 user has voted.

The smaller the mind the greater the conceit. --Aesop

wendy davis's picture

@ppnortney

getting IV valium first, but no one would tell me that anything went wack during surgery, of course. i lost almost everything: names, sequential time, basic arithmetic, i forget hat all, lol. but i still live in a time dream, which is a good way to close this diary. last thing santee sioux john trudell ever recorded before his 'ride came for him'.

i do use a lot of similisan (hippie homeopathic) eyedrops, and am apt to sponge my eyes off 20 times a day w/ cold water, dob the corners with lip medex, so i hear your mama on that. thank you.

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0 users have voted.