Coronovirus Update

Fast moving information on coronovirus. Thought to share some of my go to spots to check for information, excerpts from some of those sites and my personal thoughts at the end.

Have been following this site for several weeks. China is farther along on there the spread and containment of the infection. Provides potential issues. Global Times 1 to 4 sentence updates on the situation is China and International cases. Seen a few instances where information has been edited or dropped. I am not going the evil propaganda route because I have seen the same action on other sites.

Zerohedge good summary of United states infections and international Recommend ignore the China bashing included in nearly every article. Not spending time assigning blame for medical errors and problems is a well researched area of medicine. When focus in on improving, identifying and implementing best practices patient care and community outcomes get better.

Dr. John Campbell" in the United Kingdom has been providing regular updates on International status and actions individuals can incorporate in their daily life. Very calm demeanor and is a good teacher.


World Health Organization
entry page to their coronovirus information, guidelines and training information.

Local major news source or state site. For my area Oregonian and Oregon State.

Center for Disease Control CDC)
Information for individuals, employers, health departments government agencies. If one is in a situation where they may be in legal jeopardy for the protection of others maintaining these minimum of actions may be beneficial. I am not an attorney and at the moment not personally concerned about liability issues. They have been rapidly making changes to the site. Last week I was not impressed, this week it is more robust.


Important changes to CDC guidelines.

For full information go the site.

Higher Risk Individuals
I would include in the high risk groups individuals taking immunosupressant drugs to reduce inflammation or treat an autoimmune disorder.

What to do if you are at higher risk:

Stay at home as much as possible.
Make sure you have access to several weeks of medications and supplies in case you need to stay home for prolonged periods of time.
When you go out in public, keep away from others who are sick, limit close contact and wash your hands often.
Avoid crowds.
Stay up to date on CDC Travel Health Notices.
....
Older adults and people who have severe chronic medical conditions like heart, lung or kidney disease seem to be at higher risk for more serious COVID-19 illness. Early data suggest older people are twice as likely to have serious COVID-19 illness. This may be because:

As people age, their immune systems change, making it harder for their body to fight off diseases and infection.
Many older adults are also more likely to have underlying health conditions that make it harder to cope with and recover from illness.

Interim Guidance for Businesses and Employers

Actively encourage sick employees to stay home:
Separate sick employees:
Emphasize staying home when sick, respiratory etiquette and hand hygiene by all employees:
Perform routine environmental cleaning:
Advise employees before traveling to take certain steps:

Risk Assessment

Contacts of Asymptomatic People Exposed to COVID-19

CDC does not recommend testing, symptom monitoring or special management for people exposed to asymptomatic people with potential exposures to SARS-CoV-2 (such as in a household), i.e., “contacts of contacts;” these people are not considered exposed to SARS-CoV-2.

Legal Authorities for Isolation and Quarantine was updated Feb, 24, 2020

In the rare event that a federal order is issued by CDC, those individuals will be provided with an order for quarantine or isolation. An example of a Quarantine Order for Novel Coronavirus (print-only) pdf icon[PDF – 5 pages] is provided. This document outlines the rationale of the federal order as well as information on where the individual will be located, quarantine requirements including the length of the order, CDC’s legal authority, and information outlining what the individual can expect while under federal order.

fecal shedding

Taken together, these findings suggest a “need for strict adherence to environmental and hand hygiene” to combat significant environmental contamination through respiratory droplets and fecal shedding, Dr. Ong and colleagues wrote in JAMA.

Aaron Eli Glatt, MD, chair of medicine at Mount Sinai South Nassau in New York, said these results demonstrate that SARS-CoV-2 is “clearly capable” of contaminating bathroom sinks and toilets.
....
Samples for the first patient, taken right after routine cleaning, were all negative, according to researchers. That room was sampled twice, on days 4 and 10 of the illness, while the patient was still symptomatic. Likewise, for the second patient, postcleaning samples were negative; those samples were taken 2 days after cleaning.

However, for the third patient, samples were taken before routine cleaning. In this case, Dr. Ong and colleagues said 13 of 15 room sites (87%) were positive, including air outlet fans, while 3 of 5 toilet sites (60%) were positive as well, though no contamination was found in the anteroom, corridor, or in air samples.

My Thoughts

Asymptomatic persons may be spreading the coronovirus. Non of the questionnaires I have seen include asking the individual if they are taking medicine to suppress symptoms. Many individuals are on cough suppressants, fever reduction meds and antidiarrheals for a medical condition unrelated to intentionally reducing those symptoms. For example Motrin or Advil for arthritis pain will reduce fever. Opioid paid med will suppress cough and diarrhea.

Determining Risk Factor for a household should be at the highest level based on the most fragile individual or who you are in regular contact. My risk factor is low, but I am in daily contact with someone with multiple compromise organs. I have restricted my activities since the flu upsurge and hospitalizations the latter part of January in Oregon. My other option is not to be in regular contact.

Infection control failures in nursing home facilities, assisted living and hospitals are too often due to poor hand washing between procedures on a single patient and moving to the next patient and touching something in between. This is why handwashing keeps being emphasized.

Infectious spread and virus shedding has been identified in respiratory droplets and fecal shedding. Virus common entries are mouth, nose and eyes. A major source of transfer is hand to the facial area.

Panic in the medical community. My first experience of infection control was at the Veterans Hospital during the Aids epidemic. Method of transmission was unknown at the time. Fear was palatable within the hospital corridors. A Processes were put in place and fear decreased. Same pattern with Hepatitis. One can see the administration tying to assure the medical community. Official mask stockpiling, urging restricted use in the general population, guidelines for use with multiple patients and working on manufacturing. Extensive CDC guidelines for reducing exposure for healthcare workers and target populations.

Too much info.
Everyone processes information and learns better via different explanations. It is important multiple members add their thoughts, suggestions and sources. Hopefully this intense period will not last long. May you stay healthy, if not a quick recovery and take care of your other health issues.

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Comments

Steven D's picture

I am a high risk category individual because of my autoimmune disorder so this is much appreciated.

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"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott

studentofearth's picture

@Steven D

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Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

k9disc's picture

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD2-QVBQi48RRQTD4Jhxu8w

Most all gets confirmed by Dr Campbell 1 week later, and by WHO and CDC (when they are not disinforming) 2-3 weeks later. Some of the scarier things have fallen by the wayside since the spread became the focus: he was on 2 strands, high R0, asymptomatic and post infection spread, and a host of other issues and data-points. He's solid but speculative. YMMV.

I watch him for the best view of the present and Dr. Campbell for confirmation - together they have been pretty much spot on without the real nutter-stuff. But the nutters have been on point too... Good luck, everybody.

Theatre stunt dog shows have been canceled on the West Coast for the foreseeable future, costing our pack personally, quite a bit of income. We expect more public shows to be canceled in the very near future.

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

Deja's picture

@k9disc
Peak Prosperity is my go-to as well. Seems like he was saying 27 day incubation period at least a couple of weeks ago. Yet, even ABC had a special on last night and kept saying 14 days. Not to mention, their medical advisor did a "proper" hand washing demo earlier in the week on Good Morning America, and advised using a paper towel to turn off the water faucet, "to prevent cross contamination" (or something), and then promptly used same paper towel to dry her hands. FAIL.

I like Dr Campbell too, but he's not my 1st stop for daily updates.

Somewhat OT: I ran across a comment on Reddit that is supposedly a Q Anon quote from a screenshot:

3/16 - Local events canceled because of coronavirus.

3/23 - US goes into quarantine. Then martial law. CV is a white house op.

3/30 - US will return to gold standard

4/12- Fucking Obama arrested

7/2020- Full alien disclosure

I'm cool with items 1, 4, & 5. Not sure about 3. The second one, well; martial law would have to be implemented in order for the whole country to go into some type of quarantine. As for the last part of 2, that wouldn't surprise me; although, I don't think Trump is capable of having thought it up himself. Maybe 3 was the plan all along since covid19 is already decimating the global economy, and after total collapse, none of our money or retirement plans will be worth anything? That will be more of a distinctive line between the haves and the have nots.

I'm not paying attention to CDC. Their refusal to test people for so long (unless they had been to Wuhan, then China, then Italy, Iran) was negligent. They are also ignoring the exponential spread. It's almost like they don't know how viruses work.

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k9disc's picture

won't dismiss it out of hand. It's like nuclear fusion, just close enough to being real that I'm disinclined to call it vaporware...

As far as local events canceled, I can personally confirm that in a few states on force majeure cancellations on entertainment contracts that fit that timeline. Going to harm my friends and peers pretty seriously - we're all freaking out - at least those of us not watching corporate news.

I could see CV as a whitehouse/anti-globalist op. Drumpf has been titanically stupid on this, and brashly stupid, but it makes me think he knows something. I could also see it as a globalist op. I have no idea, and it doesn't matter.

I'm buying the numbers, and largely doing so based upon the economic calamity that flows from them. I'm experiencing the economic calamity myself, and am aware of ancillary issues like global food shortages - personal anecdotal experience with US crop failure. I've got friends in foreign locales (Germany, Italy, Greece, and China - not much political overlap there) I've been in touch with who are experiencing this first hand and are pretty freaked out.

That said, it totally could be a complete fraud. It could be a highly produced psyop. I have not seen any footage of health care happening or make shift sick wards... If it is a psyop, consider me duped into buying food, using good personal hygiene, and tightening my belt while urging people to use caution, to disbelieve the media's schizophrenic performance on this topic, to prepare for a month or 2 of low consumption, and to avoid crowds.

The anger at the "fear-mongering" and complete reluctance to believe that we could have a global pandemic is really interesting to me, though. It's almost as freaky as the weird flow of information and failure of global public health and political institutions.

I appreciate your comment and happily join you and Blue in the TFG crowd.
Peace~

@Deja

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

Deja's picture

@k9disc
One to two months of shutting down. I hope it only lasts that long. I have food stores, and well water with filters, but if everyone stays home, how will we keep our electricity on, and get our prescriptions (which come from China so won't be coming anymore for a while as mentioned on Peak Prosperity vids), and our [insert creature comfort like electricity, internet]?

Side note: I actually love being home, alone, but not without electricity; and without that, I have no water.

SXSW was finally cancelled. Mardis Gras is alive and kicking. University of Texas has cancelled 2 major gatherings. Maybe the Q quote was for DC. The college I work for is still planning a UIL hosting event for the end of March. If we don't cancel, my prez is a bigger idiot than I already thought she was. The college is basing everything on the CDC guidelines who are still saying 14 day incubation, so all updated info regarding the virus is extremely delayed, thereby inadequate, and negligent.

Yes, we'll all be doing with less pretty soon. Sorry your event was cancelled and it hit your pocketbook. Stay safe!

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k9disc's picture

But I also have ZERO experience or PROOF that would allow me to press hard in public writing. While I don't think it will be the case, or that it is even possible, it is possible that this will go nowhere or that it is a giant psyop.

I'm banking on no more corporate event entertainment as exists today, and that was the back up plan to teaching. I think a long term, depression like spiral is the likely outcome from this. Best of luck to you, @Deja

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

Alligator Ed's picture

@k9disc That Reddit quote attributed to Q anon is total bullshit. Q's last posting was Feb 26. (qanon.pub). This quote might have been submitted by an "anon" on 8kun (the successor to 8chan) but it NEVER appeared in Q's direct postings. Check it out: qanon.pub or qmap.pub.

I'm not paying attention to CDC. Their refusal to test people for so long (unless they had been to Wuhan, then China, then Italy, Iran) was negligent. They are also ignoring the exponential spread. It's almost like they don't know how viruses work.

Please consult my last 2 essays: Trump is handling Coronavirus quite well and COVID-19 Update March 6: when is it time for proactivity?

Yes, initially, your Drumpf statement was correct:

I could see CV as a whitehouse/anti-globalist op. Drumpf has been titanically stupid on this, and brashly stupid, but it makes me think he knows something. I could also see it as a globalist op. I have no idea, and it doesn't matter.

But watch the CDC March 6 video with Trump. He is now right on target. In today's March 7th video, Dr. Campbell points out that initially the Chinese government was not telling the truth.

Nor was CDC. But now this is too big to sweep under the rug, conspiracy theories notwithstanding.

I'm buying the numbers, and largely doing so based upon the economic calamity that flows from them. I'm experiencing the economic calamity myself, and am aware of ancillary issues like global food shortages - personal anecdotal experience with US crop failure.

Please explain acronym TFG. It's use is uncommon and this obscurity deprives your comment of necessary clarity. Clarity is especially necessary in these increasingly tense disease-threatened times.

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ggersh's picture

@Alligator Ed and his pocket

https://www.siliconinvestor.com/readmsg.aspx?msgid=32590073

So I totally agree w/CB on this

This is going to affect the velocity and pattern of the spreed of the disease in America where a large percentage of people do not have health care. They cannot go to the doctor if they are just feeling a bit sick as with the common cold/flu due to lack of funds. This allows them to infect others in their family and circle of acquaintances.

Frankly, I'm concerned about what will happen if the virus gets a substantial hold. There are no national systems now in place (unless it is a secret one) nor is there the political will to set them up at this time other than basic reporting. Trying to quarantine Americans will be like trying to herd and bell cats.

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I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish

"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"

Heard from Margaret Kimberley

CB's picture

@Alligator Ed

In today's March 7th video, Dr. Campbell points out that initially the Chinese government was not telling the truth.

On Dec 24 a sample from an infected patient was sent out for testing.

On Dec 27, 2019 the results were published by:

Institute of Pathogen Biology, Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences & Peking Union Medical College
Genomic epidemiology of novel coronavirus (nCoV)
...
Site numbering and genome structure uses BetaCoV/Wuhan-Hu-1/2019 as reference.
...
Phylogenetic context of nCoV in SARS-related betacoronaviruses can be seen here and phylogenetic context in betacoronaviruses can be seen here.

The nCoV genomes were generously shared by scientists at the Shanghai Public Health Clinical Center & School of Public Health, Fudan University, Shanghai, China, at the National Institute for Viral Disease Control and Prevention, China CDC, Beijing, China, at the Institute of Pathogen Biology, Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences & Peking Union Medical College, Beijing, China, at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, Chinese Academy of Sciences, Wuhan, China, at the Department of Microbiology, Zhejiang Provincial Center for Disease Control and Prevention, Hangzhou, China, at the Guangdong Provincial Center for Diseases Control and Prevention and at the Department of Medical Sciences, National Institute of Health, Nonthaburi, Thailand via GISAID. We gratefully acknowledge the Authors, Originating and Submitting laboratories of the genetic sequence and metadata made available through GISAID on which this research is based.
...

On Dec 30, 2019 Dr Dr. Li Wenliang, an ophthalmologist, read some of the preliminary reports and wrote a WeChat message stating that, erroneously, 7 pneumonia patients from Wuhan have been infected with SARS.

At this time the Chinese CDC was still working on the problem but still did not know conclusively what the pathogen was other than SARS-like.

On Dec 31 they issued an "urgent notice on the treatment of pneumonia of unknown cause" to the Wuhan Municipal Health Center. The authorities shutdown the fish market and started disinfection on Jan 1. Unfortunately, this inadvertently destroyed the possible "crime" site.

On Dec 31 "Chinese state television reported that a team of experts from the National Health Commission had arrived in Wuhan on 31 December 2019 to lead the investigation, while the People's Daily said the exact cause remained unclear and it would be premature to speculate."

On Jan 3, 2020, Chinese scientists at the National Institute of Viral Disease Control and Prevention (IVDC) determined the genetic sequence of the novel β-genus coronaviruses (naming it '2019-nCoV')

China then immediately went into high gear to stop the spread of the virus at it's epicenter. I'm not sure that this could have been done much faster, given the circumstances. Where are the "lies" from the Chinese government you speak of? The local police department along with a city level CCP functionary certainly screwed up on handling Dr. Wenliang. Looking back at the sequence of events, where do you see that "weeks" could have been saved?

I'm including the video of Dr. Bruce Aylward that Dr. John Campbell speaks favorably about in his video (6:10).

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8dIi_13COM]

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Lily O Lady's picture

@CB

for Chinese New Year. The New Year trips may have helped spread the virus.

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

Alligator Ed's picture

@CB How does this comport with initiation only in the last week of December?

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studentofearth's picture

@Alligator Ed of an infectious disease to change as more research is done in patients with similar symptoms prior to the original proposed outbreak. The speculation on the initial date has been changing the last few weeks as some researches have time to look for a patient zero. Different sites have different first case dates.

You would be familiar with the saying "When you hear hoofbeats, think of horses not zebras". I would not be surprised when sensitive and specific antibody tests are available it will be found the infection started earlier than originally thought.

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Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

k9disc's picture

opinions are above question. I'm sure the three of us I mentioned knew it.
Sorry to drag down the comment - it was a throwaway of self deprecating humor. And completely true. I'm too far gone for the corporate media and the reality pitched and propped up by the Establishment. I'm out. I want a tinfoil hat and one for my phone too.

I just encountered the Q quote from above, it didn't seem outlandish to me, attribution was not the point. As I said, I pay attention to Q, MUCH less so since he went all Xtian and started speaking to the Kill for Christ crowd.

I'm done with the CDC and WHO. Their opinion holds little weight in my mind. They have lost all my trust. It's great that they're on point now, 6 weeks later, but I find it too little too late.

I've followed this thing quite closely for over a month now and they have been criminally negligent, IMO. Not sure when you started to pay close attention, but I'm guessing it's rather recent if you can go back to trusting them, or you're a friendlier more trustworthy reptile than I am...

My post on the first CDC briefing was it for me. That was the moment to FINALLY grab the reigns and protect Americans, and Messonier Punted, to her school superintendent and covered her ass about a COMPLETE lack of testing protocol for a virus that had 1/10 the world's population under quarantine. And here we are 8 days later, 2-3 doubling times, without a centralized testing protocol and capability.

I will follow them, but will trust them as far as I can throw them. Dr Campbell and Chris at Peak Prosperity, themselves, did more to stop this than the CDC since Jan 20. Trust lost is not easily regained.

@Alligator Ed

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

studentofearth's picture

@Deja I like to know what information my healthcare providers and neighbors are being supplied. The mainstream media also uses the info for public distribution of information. Think about Rumsfeld's press conferences. It set the tone for investigative journalism on the Iraq war.

Spot reports from healthcare worker is the CC videos are being used for training purposes, in some instances, instead of hands on training from a live instructor.

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Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Deja's picture

@studentofearth
I work IT Helpdesk at a community college. No other career path is as problematic as Allied Health as a group, and nurses in particular. The ones who call and email for assistance abso-fucking-lutely refuse to read, listen to, or follow directions. PERIOD! Add in an entitled, condescending tone and mannerism, and you have me realizing just how screwed we are, as well as wanting to reach through the phone/email and punch them in their collective throat.

I have zero faith in anything our health officials (CDC, WHO, etc.) say or do, and fear for our elderly and working poor (me included), especially.

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studentofearth's picture

@Deja Allied Health and other medical degrees have become a career not a life path to serve and care for others. Health care was 18.2% of the economy in 2018 and medical professionals are paid well compared to other careers. I have notices those that enter to take care of people often experience emotional burnout.

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Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

studentofearth's picture

@k9disc He appears to be gathering info from and presenting various international sources. Similar to what I do for myself, because I find it interesting. His voice is not bad at 1.5 speed. If one is not scanning primary sources and wants more speculative information than Dr Campbell he is a good one to follow. By speculative I don't mean inaccurate, sometimes there is only enough information to make an educated guess. In the video I listened to he clearly identifies when he speculates.

So many of our jobs are in the service and entertainment industry it is an economic concern. Locally our number one industry is tourism. I empathize your economic concerns.

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Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

janis b's picture

@studentofearth

Your comment reminded of this, that I read earlier today ...

https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2020/03/07/dow-closes-down-another-256-points...

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studentofearth's picture

@janis b will be in our homes and communities.

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Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Had an exam this Friday. My doctor who I think is really good (not great bed side manner, but experienced and very smart) said he wanted to throw stuff at his TV on what he was seeing. Also, the clinic he is at had to lock away masks for staff as patients were taking bunches of them.

Same report from two people I work with who went to different clinics. Same take on the false information and fear mongering. Also, reported stealing of masks.

The cautions are those during flu season. Maybe the best is to stay away from crowd and hand santizing.

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k9disc's picture

I take it you are not in Washington State... I've seen lots of doctors remarks on this virus, and I believe they're simply not well informed, and not looking at the big picture - medical supply lines, uninsured rate, economic and social situations of the populace, droplets only, incubation of several days, non-asymptomatic transmission... It seems like hubris to me.

If we get anything like the hockeystick that is shaping up it's going to be good night for our medical system.

And, yes, I know that it sounds silly "questioning doctors" while citing lack of information and hubris when I'm just a dog trainer. But I don't think they are getting anything like quality information from the institutional authorities - CDC and WHO have been criminal on this. All the people who have been right for the last 50 days have been nutters and un-respectable sources. Call it institutional groupthink or professional insulation or something... I mean, "You treat it just like the flu, right? Nothing to be alarmed about... the news should just stop freaking people out!"

I've noticed a change over the last couple days though. The seriousness of the situation seems to be setting in, and there is much more measured and concerned commentary coming from doctors. I think you will hear a different tune from your doctor in a week or 2.

Estimates of 40-70% of the global population coming down with this novel virus are horrifying.

And, needless to say, I will be VERY happy to be wrong.

@MrWebster

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

Alligator Ed's picture

@MrWebster @MrWebster

The cautions are those during flu season. Maybe the best is to stay away from crowd and hand santizing.

Dr. Campbell's March 7th video gives pictorial demonstration of proper hand washing technique. Keep your hands off your face and mouth until you have thoroughly washed them.

Pandemic? I don't see it. Even on the biological experiment named the Diamond Princess, only about 704 people out of 3700 passengers and crew tested positive including those tested 8 days after quarantine ended. This is far from 30 - 40%

The risks, though significant, are vastly overblown. 18% was the infection prevalence on Diamond Princess passengers and crews as of Feb 27, 8 days after quarantine ceased--but monitoring of as yet unaffected persons may reveal a longer than 14 day incubation period. To qualify as pandemic, infection must affect at least 30% of the population. I don't see this happening. I've been wrong before. I may be wrong again. But I believe lethality is highly variable. Why for instance are Iranian and Italian death rates so high compared to other countries? Yes, other countries may be lying but I think that by now ALL global governments realize that honest discussion of this growing threat cannot be avoided.

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@Alligator Ed I wonder if the infected are older people with various health problems. It seems the figures on infection rates change as infections are known or cleared. The panic I have to control is the panic over the panic.

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@Alligator Ed

Pandemic? I don't see it. Even on the biological experiment named the Diamond Princess, only about 704 people out of 3700 passengers and crew tested positive including those tested 8 days after quarantine ended. This is far from 30 - 40%

The risks, though significant, are vastly overblown. 18% was the infection prevalence on Diamond Princess passengers and crews as of Feb 27, 8 days after quarantine ceased--but monitoring of as yet unaffected persons may reveal a longer than 14 day incubation period.

Does that 704 people include those who were released as presumed negative and subsequently turned out to be infected? This has been confirmed to have happened with at least a few of the Japanese passengers, and also with US, Israeli and Australians (that I know of).

And as "petri dishes" go - I guess we're about to find out how well third world mega-city slums work in that regard.
A Manila, Delhi or Nairobi or Lagos..?

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Lookout's picture

I think the next few weeks are critical provided the virus declines as summer approaches.

I left this comment about the virus this Am in smiley's OT.

I wish us all well on the other side of this! Like it or not, it is coming to a theater near you.

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Alligator Ed's picture

@Lookout @Lookout

What I think about COVID-19 this morning

March 5, 2020

Maybe I'm the closest thing you personally know to an infectious disease epidemiologist. Maybe not--I'm not an expert on this virus by any stretch, but I have general knowledge and training from studying epidemics that is applicable, so here are my thoughts.

First and foremost: we are going to see a tremendous increase in the number of US cases of COVID-19 in the next week. This is not because of some new pattern in the spread of the disease, but rather due to a major change in the requirements to be tested. Until yesterday, if you had flulike illness but had not recently traveled to China, Italy, South Korea, or Iran, you could not be tested. This is just the way healthcare works, you get tested if you meet the case definition and the case definition included travel.

As of yesterday, you can be tested if you are sick and have a doctor's order to be tested. So expect things to feel a lot more panicky all of a sudden. We will see hundreds or thousands of new cases as a result of testing increases.

Second: is that panic legitimate? Sort of. This is not the zombie apocalypse. The death rate of 30 deaths per 1000 cases is probably a wild overestimate. (The denominator is almost certainly wrong because it is confirmed cases--and we only confirm cases when we test for them). That said, even at 3 per 1000 cases, this would be a big deal. A very big deal. By way of comparison, the death rate for influenza is between 1 and 2 in 1000 cases. So, yeah. Roughly 0x to 30x worse than a huge global flu pandemic? That's a problem.

Unlike flu, COVID-19 is not *particularly* dangerous for children, so that’s some happy news. It is dangerous for older adults and those with lung conditions, so we need to be extra careful to protect those populations from exposure.

Also, for millions of Americans, getting any serious illness requiring a hospitalization is a major problem because they can't pay for it. And our health care system is probably going to struggle to keep up with it all. And with China basically closed, our global economy is going to take a huge hit and we'll feel the shockwaves for years. Those are real concerns.

What can we do? Our focus should be on *slowing down the spread* of this disease so that we have time to get caught up. Here is my advice:

1. Wash. Your. Hands. Wash them so much.

The current best guess is that coronavirus is transmitted via close contact and surface contamination. A very small study came out yesterday suggesting that the virus causing COVID-19 is *mostly* transmitted via contact with contaminated surfaces.

I have started washing my hands each time I enter a new building and after being in shared spaces (classrooms especially), in addition to the standard practice of washing after using the bathroom and before eating. Soap and water. Hand sanitizer also kills this virus, as does rubbing alcohol (the main ingredient in hand sanitizer).

There is no need to be obsessive about this. Just wash your hands. A little bit more effort here goes a long way.

2. Don’t pick your nose. Or put your fingers in your mouth, on your lips, or in your eyes. Surface contact works like this: you touch something dirty. Maybe it's an elevator button. Virus sticks to your hands. Then you rub your eye. Then you touch your sandwich, and put the sandwich in your mouth. Now there is virus in your eyes and mouth. See?

You may be thinking, but I don’t pick my nose because I am an adult! An observational study found that people sitting at a desk working touched their eyes, nose, or lips between 3 and 50 times per hour. Perfectly normal grown-ups, not lowlifes like my friends.

2a. There was one note that came out suggesting that face masks actually promote surface contamination because you're always adjusting them--i.e., touching your face. I don’t know if that’s true. But face masks should not be worn by the public right now, unless you are the person who is sick and you're on your way to or actually at the doctor's office. The mask’s function is to prevent spit from flying out of your mouth and landing on things when you cough or sneeze. It flies out of your mouth and is caught in the mask instead. If you are the person who is sick and not on the way to the doctor, go home. Let the people who really need them have the masks. Like doctors.

[ETA on 3/6/2020 honestly people I am getting so much push back on the mask recommendation!! The world is running low on masks. If everyone wants a mask so they can feel ok about keeping their Daytona Beach Spring Break plans and then hospitals in India can't buy them anymore, shame on us.]

Coronavirus does not appear to be airborne in the sense that doesn't remain floating around freely in the air for a long time, like measles does. You are probably not going to breathe it in, unless someone is coughing in front of you. If someone is coughing in your face, feel free to tell them to get their ass home and move 6 feet away from them. (Yeah I know, if you have a toddler, you're screwed.)

3. Sanitize the objects you and lots of other people touch, especially people outside your family--like door handles, shared keyboards at schools (brrr), salad bar tongs, etc. Best guesses are that the virus can live on surfaces for 2-48 hours, maybe even longer, depending on the surface, temperature, and humidity.

Many common household cleaning products will kill this virus. However, white vinegar solution does not. You can make your own inexpensive antimicrobial spray by mixing 1 part household bleach to 99 parts cold tap water. Spray this on surfaces and leave for 10-30 minutes. Note: this is bleach. It will ruin your sofa.

4. "Social distancing." You're going to get so sick of this phrase. This means keeping people apart from one another (preferably 6 feet apart, and sanitizing shared objects). This public health strategy is our next line of defense, and its implementation is what will lead to flights and events cancelled, borders closed, and schools closed.

For now, you could limit face-to-face meetings, especially large ones. Zoom is an excellent videoconferencing option. If you spend time in shared spaces, see #1. Ask your child's school about their hygiene plan, if they haven't already told you what it is. If I were in charge of a school setting, I'd be hand sanitizing the s*** out of the kids' hands, including in and out of each space, and taking temperatures at the door. I am planning to email our school nurse right after this to ask if they need my volunteer help cleaning surfaces.

If you can telecommute, do that a little more. If you are someone's boss and they could do their job remotely, encourage them to do that.

Avoid large gatherings of people if at all possible, especially if they are in an area with cases OR places that lots of people travel to. If you attend group events and start to feel even a little bit sick within 2 to 14 days, you need to self isolate immediately. Like for a tiny tickle in your throat.

5. All your travel plans are about to get screwed up. If you are considering booking flights right now, get refundable tickets. ETA: most trip insurance will not cover cancellations due to a pandemic. Look for "cancel for any reason" trip insurance.

Considerations for risks related to that trip you’re planning: how bad would it be if you got stuck where you are going for 3 to 6 weeks? How bad would it be to be isolated at home for 2-3 weeks upon your return? Do you have direct contact with people who are over 70 and/or have lung conditions? If those seem really bad to you, rethink your trip, especially if it is to a location where there are confirmed cases.

6. If you are sick, stay home. Please! For the love of all that is holy. Stay at home. Your contributions to the world are really just not that important.

7. There is a good chance some communities will see school cancelled and asked to limit non-essential movement. If someone in your family gets sick your family will almost certainly be isolated for 2-3 weeks (asked to stay at home). You could start stocking up with essentials for that scenario, but don't run out and buy a years' worth of toilet paper. Again, not the apocalypse. 2 weeks' worth of essential items. Refill any prescriptions, check your supply of coffee, kitty litter, and jigsaw puzzles.

8. I do want to remind everyone that when public health works, the result is the least newsworthy thing ever: nothing happens. If this all fizzles out and you start feeling like ‘Wah, all that fuss for nothing??’ Then send a thank-you note to your local department of public health for a job well done. Fingers crossed for that outcome.

9. Look, I think there are some positives here. All this handwashing could stop flu season in its tracks! We have an opportunity to reduce our global carbon footprint by telecommuting more, flying less, and understanding where our stuff comes from. We can use this to think about the problems with our healthcare system. We can use this to reflect on our positions of privilege and implicit biases. We can start greeting each other using jazz hands. I'm genuinely excited about those opportunities.

There is a lot we don't yet know about this virus. It didn't even exist 90 days ago. So stay tuned, it is an evolving situation. The WHO website has a decent FAQ. Free to email or text with questions, and you can forward this to others if you think it's useful.

May the force be with you.

Malia Jones, PhD, MPH

The quote you referenced is repeated here in full because of its pertinence and the soundness of the advice.

This disease may come it like a lion but may also infect like a lamb. Onset in newly affected areas may be rapid OR slow. Check at disease progress in nation around the world. Cultural habits and political (dis)information greqatly influence this.

Case in point--until March 7, Iran continued allowing religious pilgrims into Qom and other holy sirtes. Apparently, believers are convinced that kissing the holy shrines with their lips will protect them with healing powers. We'll see--but I very much doubt that will be the case. This ongoing oral-oral transmission at Qom et al. might explain the high death rate. Dr. Campbell in the March 7 video said that no further viral mutations, other than S and L types, have occurred. Good news.

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studentofearth's picture

@Alligator Ed I was going to link to Lookouts comment originally, but this is better.

Appreciate the feedback you are providing in the diary and the stand alone diaries. This is a fast moving event and none of us has complete knowledge.

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6 users have voted.

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Alligator Ed's picture

@Lookout Disease may first infect a previously COVID-19 (virus) naive area like a lion or like a lamb. This is influenced by culture and political (dis)information. For instance, why is the death rate in Iran and Italy higher than other reported ares--including recent Chinese figures of new deaths?

As for Iran, one reason may have been the government's inaction, until March 7 (today) to close religious sites such as Qom. The believers think that kissing the shrines protects them by conferring healing powers. I suspect this does quite the opposite.

I have no explanation for the relatively high death rates in South Korea or Italy. This depends upon further knowledge.

I am including the full quote linked by smiley concerning the virus:

What I think about COVID-19 this morning

March 5, 2020

Maybe I'm the closest thing you personally know to an infectious disease epidemiologist. Maybe not--I'm not an expert on this virus by any stretch, but I have general knowledge and training from studying epidemics that is applicable, so here are my thoughts.

First and foremost: we are going to see a tremendous increase in the number of US cases of COVID-19 in the next week. This is not because of some new pattern in the spread of the disease, but rather due to a major change in the requirements to be tested. Until yesterday, if you had flulike illness but had not recently traveled to China, Italy, South Korea, or Iran, you could not be tested. This is just the way healthcare works, you get tested if you meet the case definition and the case definition included travel.

As of yesterday, you can be tested if you are sick and have a doctor's order to be tested. So expect things to feel a lot more panicky all of a sudden. We will see hundreds or thousands of new cases as a result of testing increases.

Second: is that panic legitimate? Sort of. This is not the zombie apocalypse. The death rate of 30 deaths per 1000 cases is probably a wild overestimate. (The denominator is almost certainly wrong because it is confirmed cases--and we only confirm cases when we test for them). That said, even at 3 per 1000 cases, this would be a big deal. A very big deal. By way of comparison, the death rate for influenza is between 1 and 2 in 1000 cases. So, yeah. Roughly 0x to 30x worse than a huge global flu pandemic? That's a problem.

Unlike flu, COVID-19 is not *particularly* dangerous for children, so that’s some happy news. It is dangerous for older adults and those with lung conditions, so we need to be extra careful to protect those populations from exposure.

Also, for millions of Americans, getting any serious illness requiring a hospitalization is a major problem because they can't pay for it. And our health care system is probably going to struggle to keep up with it all. And with China basically closed, our global economy is going to take a huge hit and we'll feel the shockwaves for years. Those are real concerns.

What can we do? Our focus should be on *slowing down the spread* of this disease so that we have time to get caught up. Here is my advice:

1. Wash. Your. Hands. Wash them so much.

The current best guess is that coronavirus is transmitted via close contact and surface contamination. A very small study came out yesterday suggesting that the virus causing COVID-19 is *mostly* transmitted via contact with contaminated surfaces.

I have started washing my hands each time I enter a new building and after being in shared spaces (classrooms especially), in addition to the standard practice of washing after using the bathroom and before eating. Soap and water. Hand sanitizer also kills this virus, as does rubbing alcohol (the main ingredient in hand sanitizer).

There is no need to be obsessive about this. Just wash your hands. A little bit more effort here goes a long way.

2. Don’t pick your nose. Or put your fingers in your mouth, on your lips, or in your eyes. Surface contact works like this: you touch something dirty. Maybe it's an elevator button. Virus sticks to your hands. Then you rub your eye. Then you touch your sandwich, and put the sandwich in your mouth. Now there is virus in your eyes and mouth. See?

You may be thinking, but I don’t pick my nose because I am an adult! An observational study found that people sitting at a desk working touched their eyes, nose, or lips between 3 and 50 times per hour. Perfectly normal grown-ups, not lowlifes like my friends.

2a. There was one note that came out suggesting that face masks actually promote surface contamination because you're always adjusting them--i.e., touching your face. I don’t know if that’s true. But face masks should not be worn by the public right now, unless you are the person who is sick and you're on your way to or actually at the doctor's office. The mask’s function is to prevent spit from flying out of your mouth and landing on things when you cough or sneeze. It flies out of your mouth and is caught in the mask instead. If you are the person who is sick and not on the way to the doctor, go home. Let the people who really need them have the masks. Like doctors.

[ETA on 3/6/2020 honestly people I am getting so much push back on the mask recommendation!! The world is running low on masks. If everyone wants a mask so they can feel ok about keeping their Daytona Beach Spring Break plans and then hospitals in India can't buy them anymore, shame on us.]

Coronavirus does not appear to be airborne in the sense that doesn't remain floating around freely in the air for a long time, like measles does. You are probably not going to breathe it in, unless someone is coughing in front of you. If someone is coughing in your face, feel free to tell them to get their ass home and move 6 feet away from them. (Yeah I know, if you have a toddler, you're screwed.)

3. Sanitize the objects you and lots of other people touch, especially people outside your family--like door handles, shared keyboards at schools (brrr), salad bar tongs, etc. Best guesses are that the virus can live on surfaces for 2-48 hours, maybe even longer, depending on the surface, temperature, and humidity.

Many common household cleaning products will kill this virus. However, white vinegar solution does not. You can make your own inexpensive antimicrobial spray by mixing 1 part household bleach to 99 parts cold tap water. Spray this on surfaces and leave for 10-30 minutes. Note: this is bleach. It will ruin your sofa.

4. "Social distancing." You're going to get so sick of this phrase. This means keeping people apart from one another (preferably 6 feet apart, and sanitizing shared objects). This public health strategy is our next line of defense, and its implementation is what will lead to flights and events cancelled, borders closed, and schools closed.

For now, you could limit face-to-face meetings, especially large ones. Zoom is an excellent videoconferencing option. If you spend time in shared spaces, see #1. Ask your child's school about their hygiene plan, if they haven't already told you what it is. If I were in charge of a school setting, I'd be hand sanitizing the s*** out of the kids' hands, including in and out of each space, and taking temperatures at the door. I am planning to email our school nurse right after this to ask if they need my volunteer help cleaning surfaces.

If you can telecommute, do that a little more. If you are someone's boss and they could do their job remotely, encourage them to do that.

Avoid large gatherings of people if at all possible, especially if they are in an area with cases OR places that lots of people travel to. If you attend group events and start to feel even a little bit sick within 2 to 14 days, you need to self isolate immediately. Like for a tiny tickle in your throat.

5. All your travel plans are about to get screwed up. If you are considering booking flights right now, get refundable tickets. ETA: most trip insurance will not cover cancellations due to a pandemic. Look for "cancel for any reason" trip insurance.

Considerations for risks related to that trip you’re planning: how bad would it be if you got stuck where you are going for 3 to 6 weeks? How bad would it be to be isolated at home for 2-3 weeks upon your return? Do you have direct contact with people who are over 70 and/or have lung conditions? If those seem really bad to you, rethink your trip, especially if it is to a location where there are confirmed cases.

6. If you are sick, stay home. Please! For the love of all that is holy. Stay at home. Your contributions to the world are really just not that important.

7. There is a good chance some communities will see school cancelled and asked to limit non-essential movement. If someone in your family gets sick your family will almost certainly be isolated for 2-3 weeks (asked to stay at home). You could start stocking up with essentials for that scenario, but don't run out and buy a years' worth of toilet paper. Again, not the apocalypse. 2 weeks' worth of essential items. Refill any prescriptions, check your supply of coffee, kitty litter, and jigsaw puzzles.

8. I do want to remind everyone that when public health works, the result is the least newsworthy thing ever: nothing happens. If this all fizzles out and you start feeling like ‘Wah, all that fuss for nothing??’ Then send a thank-you note to your local department of public health for a job well done. Fingers crossed for that outcome.

9. Look, I think there are some positives here. All this handwashing could stop flu season in its tracks! We have an opportunity to reduce our global carbon footprint by telecommuting more, flying less, and understanding where our stuff comes from. We can use this to think about the problems with our healthcare system. We can use this to reflect on our positions of privilege and implicit biases. We can start greeting each other using jazz hands. I'm genuinely excited about those opportunities.

There is a lot we don't yet know about this virus. It didn't even exist 90 days ago. So stay tuned, it is an evolving situation. The WHO website has a decent FAQ. Free to email or text with questions, and you can forward this to others if you think it's useful.

May the force be with you.

Malia Jones, PhD, MPH

The advice is sound. Too many physicians are prone to "blow off" patients' complaints, i.e., not take the patient seriously. This laissez faire nihilism has no place in conscientious medical practice.

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4 users have voted.
Deja's picture

@Alligator Ed
Maybe the countries with higher death rates are actually testing people who die (maybe even ones who died at home, not under medical care)? I don't believe the China death rates. They have their own 'Clinton death count' going on a massive scale to begin with.

And I love the advice in the quote that Lookout posted in the OT with the exception of the 14 day incubation period. It's actually more like a month (27 days).

Think about this: People from the Princess cruise are put into 14 day quarantine after everyone wearing their masks and many, if not most, touching their bare hands to the gangplank or other hand rails on the way off the ship, but were not at all ill prior and then touching everything in their new accomodations, including their faces. They do their 14 days without a positive test, are released, and then some start feeling ill 10 days later. During that time they got gas, opened doors everywhere, work/home (don't forget light switches, hand rails, PAYMENT TOUCHPADS, etc.)

We already have a pandemic, regardless of whether or not it's "officially" being called one. Americans just don't know it yet because most people are ignorant of how viruses work, and blindly trust what our healthcare officials tell us.

Remember when we were told AIDS only infected gay men? Jfc, I knew that was a load of shit and I was in high school, making a D in biology, at the time. That D wasn't because I'm not able to grasp science. It was because I was a stoner.

[video:https://youtu.be/3etuaYTDwFI]

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k9disc's picture

It is suggested that this is the Port of Long Beach as of a day or 3 ago:

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13 users have voted.

“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

Alligator Ed's picture

@k9disc @k9disc This is proof of the world-wide disruption of shipping commerce. But China is now said to be slowly ramping up production cautiously. The process won't be rapid--and shouldn't be hurried. Resumption of ordinary activities is best performed slowly enough that the ramp up can be abruptly halted should case numbers once again rise.

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6 users have voted.

that dog eared copy of "The Stand".

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8 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@Snode

King took liberties with how fast it spread with no talk about how the government fought to contain it. But then it wasn't the purpose of the book. He wanted to get to the good and evil part. One thing I didn't like was how big a baby Larry was. Come on man suck it up and move on.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Voting is like driving with a toy steering wheel.

Lily O Lady's picture

@Snode

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5 users have voted.

"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

CB's picture

Coronavirus COVID-19 Global Cases by Johns Hopkins CSSE

It has extensive data and map for the US showing cases for individual cities & states.

The current number for the US updated to 3/7/2020, 12:33:02 PM is 401 w/ 17 deaths and 8 recoveries. Recoveries tend to lag new cases by 2-3 weeks. Deaths usually reported within 5-10 days due to the fact that many people who get infected wait until symptoms are serious enough for them to seek medical assistance.

This is going to affect the velocity and pattern of the spreed of the disease in America where a large percentage of people do not have health care. They cannot go to the doctor if they are just feeling a bit sick as with the common cold/flu due to lack of funds. This allows them to infect others in their family and circle of acquaintances.

Frankly, I'm concerned about what will happen if the virus gets a substantial hold. There are no national systems now in place (unless it is a secret one) nor is there the political will to set them up at this time other than basic reporting. Trying to quarantine Americans will be like trying to herd and bell cats.

The US is behaving much like Italy which has now ballooned to 5,883 confirmed cases with 233 deaths and 589 recovered with no end in sight.

I get an eerie feeling of "whistling past the graveyard" on this one.

Personal note: I'm well prepared for a quarantine. I'm retired and buy in bulk to take advantage of special prices (I get zero for any money in the bank so why not invest it this way if you've got the space) and could easily last 60 days w/o too much effort provided the power stays on. I bought two LV-PUR131 HEPA filters (Filters 99.97% of dust, pollen, smoke, odors, mold spores, and pet dander. These air filters catch particles as small as 0.3 microns and filters air pollution of PM 2.5) because of allergies to mold and smoke. F*ing asshat neighbor started burning smoldering wet wood - now I have to sleep with windows closed. The corona virus is 0.8 and larger so this should remove most. I bought these two years ago and after several weeks of operation my snoring stopped and I woke up w/o stuffed up nose first time in I don't know how many years. I highly recommend but the unit and replacement filters ARE costly.

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14 users have voted.
smiley7's picture

@CB

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6 users have voted.
CB's picture

the map and click the red dots. A box will open to give you the info.
@smiley7

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5 users have voted.
smiley7's picture

@CB
Will take best precautions, i can; bookmarked this as most probably it's going to be very important to have on hand for a while, thank you.

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studentofearth's picture

@CB Valuable tool. Thanks for providing.

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5 users have voted.

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Alligator Ed's picture

@CB

The current number for the US updated to 3/7/2020, 12:33:02 PM is 401 w/ 17 deaths and 8 recoveries. Recoveries tend to lag new cases by 2-3 weeks. Deaths usually reported within 5-10 days due to the fact that many people who get infected wait until symptoms are serious enough for them to seek medical assistance.

The statement is a bit ambiguous. Deaths usually reported within 5 - 10 days. What does that mean? Within 5 - 10 days of initial infection or 5 - 10 days of diagnosis? There is a huge difference in the figures depending upon how they have been calculated and reported.

The cost of air filters, good ones, is quite high. But how much is your health or your life worth? I have an excellent but pricey Swiss-made air filter, capturing 99.9+% of particulates down to a 3 micron size.

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3 users have voted.
CB's picture

@Alligator Ed
doesn't bode well for a promising recovery if one has something like COVID-19.

I was speaking of poor people who tend to try to recover using home remedies. When these don't work and they start coughing up blood they finally go to the hospital emergency. If they just had a cough and runny nose the hospital would quickly send them away with the name of some off-the-shelf cough medicine.

If you are poor w/o medical insurance, you have to be on death's doorstep for the hospitals to look at you.

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8 users have voted.
Deja's picture

@CB
Employers expect them to show up for work too. Bootstraps and whatnot. Jobs gotta get done, and the employers sure as hell aren't going to do them.

Shit's about to get real, and most people have no idea.

God, I hope I'm wrong!

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6 users have voted.
Alligator Ed's picture

@CB So I will repeat it.

The statement is a bit ambiguous. Deaths usually reported within 5 - 10 days. What does that mean? Within 5 - 10 days of initial infection or 5 - 10 days of diagnosis? There is a huge difference in the figures depending upon how they have been calculated and reported.

Please explain more clearly what you meant with your statistic.

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1 user has voted.
CB's picture

@Alligator Ed
for elderly patients with compromised health due to 1-3 underlying conditions. I'll try to find relevant link where I read that. This is why the elderly need to be diagnosed BEFORE onset of symptoms. It would give them a better chance of survival. Unfortunately, US regulations require them to be already showing signs of illness to get the test.

Families upset with coronavirus response at Life Care Center in Kirkland
...
She was 85 years old and previously had a stroke and just moved into Life Care last September. She came down with a cough in January and was coughing and wheezing as early as about a week and a half ago, according to Weatherill.

"She was doing okay as of Sunday, Monday she wasn't well... and then on Tuesday they called and said they were going to give her antibiotics, but said she had no fever," Weatherill explained Thursday. "I told the nurse I wanted her to go the ER, but she said she couldn't cause there was no fever. Early Wednesday morning, she apparently came down with a fever... and was transferred to EvergreenHealth...and died at 6 a.m."
...

Here are the deaths and cases of coronavirus in Washington state
...
King County deaths: 15

  • A man in his 50s who was admitted to Harborview Medical Center in Seattle on Feb. 24 and died Feb. 26 tested positive for coronavirus, a hospital spokesperson confirmed Tuesday. The patient had underlying medical conditions and had been transferred from Life Care Center in Kirkland. This is now the first person in the county to die of coronavirus.

...

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Alligator Ed's picture

@CB Test. Test. And test some more

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smiley7's picture

We'd best be ready and these links and your knowledge comfort me, cheers.

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3 users have voted.
Roy Blakeley's picture

There is now good evidence from sequencing COVID-19 isolates from individuals in Washington State that Asymptomatic or very mildly symptomatic individuals can spread the virus. Testing only sick individuals is like putting a dam half way across a river.

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11 users have voted.
Alligator Ed's picture

@Roy Blakeley

Testing only sick individuals is like putting a dam half way across a river.

In a previous essay in which I discussed two classes of asymptomatic persons as either Class A, meaning those who would subsequently become symptomatic; or Class B, those individuals who are never symptomatic. The issue is how many of Class B patients are tested and how many are never tested. Related to this is the infectivity rate of Class B, calculated by measures such as R0.

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studentofearth's picture

@Roy Blakeley State researchers on the coronovirus sequencing. Sorry New York Times link, did not find my original source. I know it was not the NYT since my browser often argues with their site.

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5 users have voted.

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Lily O Lady's picture

conspiracy theory. China has ended its “one child” policy and may be looking for a way to decrease the surplus population. Enter a virus that targets the old and medically fragile.

Early on in the outbreak I heard that it wasn’t affecting children. Could that be by design? Since it has gotten into nursing homes in Washington state, I can’t help but wonder. And being old myself, I want to take it personally.

Some paranoid musings from yours truly.

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

studentofearth's picture

@Lily O Lady . The nursing home is a mystery for the CDC and Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) to investigate how it arrived and spread in the patient population. Nursing homes are regularly inspected by state inspectors and periodically by federal. The Washington facility has a history of failing the infection control. The state authorities allowed it to continue to admit and care for patients. The quality control problem in that facility has no relation to China.

Flu virus and pneumonia deaths primarily targets the old and medically fragile. Historically the older one was catching the measles and chicken pox resulted in a more severe illness with significant complications and death.

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6 users have voted.

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Lily O Lady's picture

@studentofearth

for COVID19 spreading to the Washington nursing homes. China is just the source of the virus. They may have wanted to clear out their own populations. Maybe. I just Googled and ended up on Snopes which says not.

Ultra paranoid is wondering if our own society is looking to get some people off of social security and Medicare/Medicaid. Snopes would not agree.

I’m still pissed that it’s coming for us oldies.

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6 users have voted.

"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

CB's picture

@Lily O Lady
using the coronavirus they sure went about it the wrong way.

Their economy has taken a monetary hit that could readily support several million pensioners in relative luxury. Some estimates are putting the final costs in excess of $200 billion. With current deaths of 3097 at 40% age 50 and over comes to about $161 million to "off" one person.

The truth of the matter is that China has pulled out all the stops to protect its people of all ages - cost be damned.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_VHDmGM3Ws]

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK0JnuuyKWA]

Just about every disease in the world is coming after us oldies. Very few of us die a healthy old age.

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7 users have voted.
mimi's picture

@Lily O Lady @Lily O Lady @Lily O Lady (added inks)(added sentence)
and not only not helpful, but rather completely the opposite. Wow. The probability of dying of cancer rises with age, so probably we will see many more cases in all of the population because it is tested more often now than before.

The virus is creeping in slowly also in my neighborhood here in Germany. It apparently comes mostly in from Italy.
Italy announces lockdown as global coronavirus cases surpass 105,000 - Helen Regan byline -By Helen Regan, CNN - Updated 1500 GMT (2300 HKT) March 8, 2020

German coronavirus cases jump, economic anxiety rises

Coronavirus in Germany: No End in Sight

Confirmed Coronavirus Infections in Germany’s Federal States (as of Saturday night)
Schleswig-Holstein: 8
Hamburg: 13
Lower Saxony: 19
Bremen: 4
Mecklenburg-Hither Pomerania: 6
Berlin: 28
Brandenburg: 2
Saxony-Anhalt: 0
Thuringia: 2
North Rhine-Westphalia: 377
Rhineland-Palatinate: 13
Saarland: 3
Hesse: 17
Saxony: 4
Baden-Württemberg: 170
Bavaria: 134
Note: The sum of the cases in Germany’s federal states and the total number of cases in Germany might not match, as some numbers are being updated during the day and the authorities are lagging behind in the counting process.

Our Sec. of Health Jahn just advised and to shut down all gatherings of more than 1000 people.

The Latest: Germany urges postponements of large gatherings - March 8, 2020 8:05 AM
ROME (AP) — The Latest on the coronavirus outbreak (all times local): 4 p.m.

So, self-quarantaine yourself as best as you can, try to not forget to wash your hands each time you had to leave your quarantaine quarter. Wear masks, if you could get one. And that's it.

It is not that useful to engage in speculations of someone, some country, some laboratory have released and built this virus on purpose. Please, don't do that again. I would be in a better mental shape, if I hadn't read it. In case I have misread what you said or meant to say, please let me know.

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1 user has voted.
snoopydawg's picture

Police Quarantine California Neighborhood After Coronavirus Death

Police in the Sacramento suburb of Rocklin, California ordered residents on one residential street to stay inside their homes as officers in protective gear patrolled the area as a sheriff's helicopter circled overhead, according to WIBW.

The reason? A man who became California's first coronavirus victim lived on the block.

Just what did that accomplish? The guy died in hospital and no one did anything after the cops blocked the street. All this did was scare people and let them know they had no power. Every state that has a person with the virus has enacted emergency powers. This is always a one way street.

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studentofearth's picture

@snoopydawg Now this! Is this police fear that has become normalized or something else. I definitely do not want the police enforcing quarantines.

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Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

@snoopydawg

the black helicoptersand FEMA camp thing may not have been off the mark after all...

"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you."

- Gravity's Rainbow by Thomas Pynchon

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Deja's picture

@Blue Republic
And the doomsday preppers might not have been far off the mark either. Rather than "bug out", they're calling it "bug in", where you hunker down and survive on your food stores. Like the ant in the ant and grasshopper tale.

The cops and county commissioner call where I live "no-man's-land", so I hope they leave us alone if they decide to pull some crap like Snoopy linked to.

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snoopydawg's picture

@Blue Republic

Rumors of FEMA camps have been around for a very long time and with all the roll backs of our civil liberties how could the government pass up using them?

I thought all along that what Trump is doing to immigrants was a trial run to see if people would get upset locking people up for any reason. And things like this always start with the most undesirables don't they? If I'm right then we as a country have failed spectacularly.

"First they came for...."

It was a warning dipshits. (Not you guys)

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fakenews's picture

I'm going to try very hard to keep my attention on the cases in Seattle, there will be distractions I'm sure but for me, Seattle will be the "check engine" light for increasing my concern. The time frame according to the "math-ers" for Seattle is two weeks.

Peace
FN

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"Democracy is technique and the ability of power not to be understood as oppressor. Capitalism is the boss and democracy is its spokesperson." Peace - FN

studentofearth's picture

@fakenews Washington state has a large military presence.

Impacts of Washington State's military installations and defense related assets

As the second largest public employer in Washington employing more than 127,000 active duty, reserve, guard and civilian personnel, home to over 540,000 veterans including 71,000 retirees and 88,674 military families; Washington’s military and defense community supports over $13 billion dollars in annual procurement supported by nearly 2,000 businesses across the state, representing nearly 3% of the state’s GDP.

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Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

mimi's picture

@studentofearth
I have to be more scared because of it? HI also has more tourism from people, coming from Cruise Ships and has a relatively significant Asian population. Does that mean I have to fear and or smear those peope for their having the race they have, or having the home state in China or areas where the virus has been identified, or fearing all people, who happened to be on a cruiseship making some nice vacation in their old age? I made a comment about cruiseships and the virus somewhere today, and I know the working and living conditions on a cruiseship, but I can't get over what has been said by some folks.

I am ususlly a person who has some problems with commenting spontaneously and knowing too little to write acceptable and meaningful essays here. But I think one should stay away from anything that even remotely tries to relate identity categorizytion of race, gender, age or nationality and various testing lab standards to the outbreak and spread of the virus.

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studentofearth's picture

@mimi and feel they have no control.

My discussion on watching Washington state (my neighboring state) to get an idea of actions that may be taken by our local and federal government when coronovirus increases its spread in the civilian population. The state has the highest number of confirmed cases with infection transmission happening locally. I believe most of the cases from cruise ships and citizens transported back from China did their quarantine on military bases, including few in Washington state.

King County bought a motel Friday in Kent, Washington to quarantine civilians.

Did not find the reference. There has been discussion of CMS (Center for Medicaid and Medicare Services) taking control of the nursing home in Kirkland, Washington with the coronovirus outbreak. This has been a legal option for decades to protect patients from facility management problems until they are rectified. It should have been done for infection control problems noted in the past. However the Trump administration has been trying to weaken infection control regulations in nursing homes at the request of the industry.

KENT — A court commissioner denied the city of Kent’s attempt late Friday to block King County from using a vacant motel as an emergency quarantine facility for people exposed to or potentially infected with novel coronavirus.

Washington Military Department


Soldiers, Airmen, Families,

On Feb. 29, 2020, Gov. Jay Inslee signed a proclamation declaring a State of Emergency in Washington state as a result of the COVID-19 outbreak.

Part of this proclamation mentions the ability to order the Washington National Guard into service in support of this event.

As of now, the Washington National Guard has not been activated, and there have been no requests for our assistance. This could certainly change and our staff is looking at potential areas we could provide help. We will keep you informed of this rapidly evolving situation.
....
We are still having drill this coming weekend. Any issues must be addressed through your chain of command.
...

It looks like Hawaii only has 1 reported case on the coronovirus map. Their situation is not as acute as the state of Washington.

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Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

mimi's picture

@studentofearth
concerning the low numbers in HI, I would like to say "wait and see".

Italy has just announced Coronavirus live updates: lockdown in Italy as death toll rises from 233 to 366.
Germany has his first death due to the corona virus.
It's not over until it's over and conditions are locally different.

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studentofearth, AE & others...

Here in Japan there still haven't been confirmed cases in my city and there are still a fair number of people out and around - more masks than usual being worn, but they are common here anyway during flu (pretty much over) and pollen allergy season (underway).

Masks, toilet paper, paper towels, disinfectant wipes are pretty much sold out - I was finally able to buy some masks the other day so may have to sacrifice the beard for occasions when I might need to wear them.

Theme parks, movie theaters, concerts, festivals and the like are closed/canceled, nearly all foreign tourism seems to have dried up (have heard rumors of wealthy Chinese coming here and setting up in hotels for extended stays, though).

Shinkansen trains are running mostly empty, I'm told, may have to use one here in a couple weeks, not looking forward to it.

I'm in an area with lots of manufacturing and we are starting to get reports of production lines being shut down for lack of parts from China.

People tended to shun Chinese vegetables in supermarkets before although they were cheap compared to domestic or some other country's imports, but a lot was used by restaurants or in bento box type food. So now ramen shops are having problems because it turns out that garlic - a key ingredient - was mostly imported from China. Domestic costs twice as much or more and output isn't enough to meet demand. I've at least got some growing, but am a couple months away from harvesting.

Expect to see a lot more supply chain issues cropping up,
especially when common medicines start becoming scarce.

America going cold turkey on psych drugs is something to contemplate.

Over and above basic stocking up and prepping, I (per Wendy Davis and Alex Jones advice) started looking around for colloidal silver products and found some in Japan.

There have been deaths associated with colloidal silver products before, but as I understand it, the problem was not with the colloidal silver itself but with a manufacturing process that produced toxic byproducts.

So, caution and research are advised, but I'm going to try a toothpaste I found here. Some of the products in the US are in the form of toothpaste or an oral spray. I saw it suggested that spraying the inside of a generic mask could increase its effectiveness - some commercial masks incorporate silver in some form or other.

Another consideration is iodine, as it is essential for good immune system functioning and Americans tend to get a lot less than they used to in their diet. Japanese, mostly through consuming various seaweed products in their diet, tend to get a lot more.

More on the importance of iodine here.

Big discovery for me is Japanese Knotweed (known here as "itadori"). Most younger Japanese people don't know about it, but it's a really common plant (considered an invasive weed in the US, I think) that has a long history in Traditional Chinese Medicine. Some older people here have said they ate it fairly often when they were young - the new shoots are edible (soak them in water first to remove sourness) and will be coming up soon.

Anyway, the stuff contains high levels of resveratrol and other beneficial chemicals and is *supposed* to be effective for any number of things, from anti-oxidant and anti-cancer properties to immune system support to staving off or even reversing decline in cognitive function.

Plus, it's fairly cheap, available in a variety of supplements.

Very few warnings at all about side effects, interactions with other meds may not be known, though. I'm not on any, but have been drinking a cup or so of the tea per day for a week and a half or so with no ill effects.

Good summary here with links to research articles.

Polygonum Cuspidatum is a herb in the polygonaceae family (alongside Rheum palmatum L and the similar plant Polygonum multiflorum) and the genera of Fallopia; it is native to eastern China and Japan and is sometimes (most commonly) referred to as Japanese Knotweed. Polygonum Cuspidatum has been used traditionally for its medicinal qualities, specifically treatment of artherosclerosis as well as cancer, asthma, hypertension, and cough.

Hey, if it only helps with the cognitive decline...

"Slips don't count in a bear fight." - Dad

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studentofearth's picture

@Blue Republic I am concerned about the possible disruption of medication. Some medications can cause withdrawal problems when abruptly stopped. Many people are only able to buy a 30 day supply due to insurance restrictions.

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Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

snoopydawg's picture

@Blue Republic

America going cold turkey on psych drugs is something to contemplate.

Many years ago I was on very high doses of psych drugs and was close to losing my job because of the side effects from them so I stopped taking them cold turkey and boy I'm not sure how I survived it. It took two long weeks to get them out of my system and I have no idea how I did and kept my job through it. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Even Hillary.

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@snoopydawg

Don't envy you at all on that one - glad you made it out - a lot of people don't, it seems...

ssristories.org

Not that Big Pharma is losing any sleep over it.

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studentofearth's picture

@Blue Republic updated link for SSRIstories

On target explanation on the site.

“If it can be solved by $5,000 or a new boyfriend, it’s not depression.”

– Ned Shorter, Hannah Professor in the History of Medicine and Professor of Psychiatry at the University of Toronto

I take depression seriously. My Grandfather suffered from depression as an adult. He committed suicide when I was a teen. Would never suggest it is not a real issue.

Abrupt discontinuation of antidepressants cause withdrawal in many individuals.

Chicago researchers reviewed almost six decades of data and found persistent evidence that, when a person abruptly stops taking their antidepressant medication, they can experience symptoms similar to withdrawal.

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Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.