Epstein Didn’t Kill Himself

Can we talk about this meme for a minute?

Does anyone think it sprung up organically? Where did it come from?

Perhaps I’m a bit too cynical but I feel like these things are constructed by a think tank to frame the Overton Window.

The vibe I’m getting, is that it’s meant to put the blame on the Trump administration, as if anything that happens in the justice system is attributable to the current President.

It’s a sweeping insinuation of corruption.

Yes, there is some strong bullshit in the air, and while people are pointing fingers at the nearest farm, maybe we should be skeptical of the person who claims they are peddling shineola.

I think if these critics were sincere they’d be calling for an investigation into the New York jails, the police and / or corrections officers involved. We’ve heard that the officers had been reassigned or temporarily placed at the jail, so who pulled the strings to make that happen? These are all legitimate concerns if one were truly pushing to uncover the truth.

But it doesn’t seem like “Epstein didn’t kill himself” is being used as a cudgel to get at the truth. I mean, it is slightly reminiscent of the Russia rigged the election hysteria.

At least that’s how I think it got started.

I wonder, though, if this is taking on a new intention, because the more I hear it repeated the more it takes on a general anti-establishment meaning. It speaks to a complete failure of the Fourth Estate to investigate. Now that the meme has been seasoned with Amy Robach’s claim that the network spiked her Epstein expose in 2016, it’s taken on a brand new flavor.

When I hear this meme now, I get a chuckle out of knowing that it was being used to push a false narrative but now it’s been turned around, the pawns who were unwittingly pushing propaganda are now an army for the truth.

Maybe I've got this all wrong. Maybe the movement did start with radicals intent on tearing down the powerful status quo framework. Maybe we skipped the part where the culprits co-opt the meme to push the spin and went straight to in your face, not gonna take it anymore style disobedience.

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Raggedy Ann's picture

by this? I don't think he committed suicide - I think he was murdered to silence him. This could have been done by any number of rich fucks or all of them collectively. Pleasantry

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33 users have voted.

“The trouble [with injustice] is that once you see it, you can’t unsee it. And once you’ve seen it, keeping quiet, saying nothing, becomes as political an act as speaking out. There is no innocence. Either way, you’re accountable.”
-- Arundhati Roy

@Raggedy Ann
blackmail dossier collection scheme by higher elites (my belief), or it may have just been sick amusement for some twisted rich people. No matter, someone with money and/or connections was going down with him if he wasn't killed first.

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26 users have voted.
thanatokephaloides's picture

@Raggedy Ann

Frankly, why would anyone be surprised by this? I don't think he committed suicide - I think he was murdered to silence him.

Do you perchance have any direct evidence to support your contention?

N.B. -- Important -- I'm not trying to bash you in any way, Raggedy Ann! Rather, I'm supporting your core point:

This could have been done by any number of rich fucks or all of them collectively.

Eliminating/obfuscating all direct evidences is easier and cheaper than a hit, and less costly if you're caught. And the uber-rich fucks we're talking about are in a great position to do it, too.

Diablo

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8 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

I’m just too cynical to take it at face value. If nothing else, at least it keeps the story out there. It’s super curious though.

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Not Henry Kissinger's picture

If they could rig the jail that easily, no reason they couldn't break him out.

To your point:

California Brewery Prints "Epstein Didn't Kill Himself" On The Bottom Of Its Cans

The brewery seems pretty pro-Trump, so perhaps Epstein is becoming a cudgel for both sides to blame each other?

Also, Hillary went on Trevor Noah's Ghost of the Daily Show to yuck it up about the 'conspiracy theory' that Hillary had him murdered.

History shows that any time the Clintons try to get out in front of a smoldering story, there's typically some fire behind it. I think a lot of this Epstein pushback from Establishment Dem sympathizers may simply be an attempt to deflect blame onto Trump.

(For the record, my own conspiracy theory is that Trump and the Dems were in cahoots on this one. Both had something to gain by his 'death' and a lot to lose if Epstein remained in jail.)

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Peace Sells

Raggedy Ann's picture

@Not Henry Kissinger
Another possibility is that he is alive and well and living under protection somewhere.
Pleasantry

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21 users have voted.

“The trouble [with injustice] is that once you see it, you can’t unsee it. And once you’ve seen it, keeping quiet, saying nothing, becomes as political an act as speaking out. There is no innocence. Either way, you’re accountable.”
-- Arundhati Roy

@Not Henry Kissinger
after all, he spent money on a second-opinion autopsy.

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12 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

@Not Henry Kissinger Aside from the expense, security, complications to hide him, he is at any point in time that eye witness to testify against this person, or that person, or at least furnish information so the blackmail potential goes on and on. It would end with his murder, and the whole point of blackmail is evidence, and he "has it".
The man on the gurney headed to the morgue bore only the faintest resemblance to Epstein. The autopsy report was unconvincing.
When I first heard of his arrest, I felt he was a dead man walking, that it would be a matter of time before he was killed.
Since then, I have changed my attitude, after having read a lot about him. His value is being alive.
Now, I have never thought he was out to get Republicans, or Democrats, and I do not see that his death hurts Trump, or hurts any Democrat. He was blackmailing all of them. Everybody everywhere, in fact.
If the meme out there is that his alleged murder is just to hurt Trump is going on, I call bull shit.

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@on the cusp So, I do not think the man on the gurney was J. E.
I absolutely do not. I can see pretty well.
That means, if I am correct, and I am not saying I am, that J. E. is elsewhere, not in a grave.
All he needs is plastic surgery and a new passport to live large.
I think the new face surgery is best done in Brazil, but I could be wrong.

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Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@on the cusp

His value is being alive.

The guy has so many creepy secrets on so many important people. Why lose all that when you can just whisk him away to another private island and continue the op?

And sure, Epstein won't be showing his face at any Manhattan cocktail parties any time soon, but I'm sure an enterprising guy like that can think of other ways to keep himself amused three times a day.

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5 users have voted.

Peace Sells

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Not Henry Kissinger

So bereft of morality that she has no idea that she just did a thing that makes her look like shit.

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9 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

Eagles92's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal Because I honestly can't stomach her face or voice. But your comment directed me back.

Why in dog's name is Chelsea also on the show?!

Never mind, rhetorical question.

Why doesn't someone just proclaim the US as a monarchy and be done with it?

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Eagles92

Otherwise, I don't know.

AFA the monarchy goes, I guess we're kind of already there. Except in this case the monarchs work for somebody else, and are more the CEOs than the board.

Man, I hate late-stage capitalism.

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10 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

Mark from Queens's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
appearance incredibly makes Her even more unlikable than previously.

Apologies for those who gets as sickened as I do to even hear the slightest utterance in her arrogant voice.

But check out what she had the balls to blurt out here:

Man, not that it means anything to me, but I'm pretty sure Obama knew her combination of being loose-lipped, hubristic, self-important and with a massive sense of entitlement was going to make her a less than optimum candidate to be the heir to his legacy. What I'm saying is there is probably a huge rift inside the Dem establishment between these factions. Which probably makes visible some of the inner turmoil we're seeing, yet is only a small part of why they are so rudderless. They're going to blow the best opportunity they have to change the direction of the country because they're so brazenly beholden and addicted to corporate money. Which ironically is creating an open lane for the Bernie Sanders wing to hit the throttle on.

Anyway, fuck them. The socialist wing continues to soldier on and quietly establish footing up and down and across the country racking up victories in places the Dems had lost, with all sorts of candidates getting elected after being inspired by Bernie Sanders. The sand is shifting under their feet. But Pelosi's high heels are firmly dug in, where she squawks like The Windsock who lost to Drumpf, bemoaning Medicare For All costs and commie infiltrators like some deranged McCarthyite gazing into the distance in the direction of her donor's mansions.

Time's up, for you, your identity politics bullshit, your deathgrip on your moneybag and your chronic lies and deception.

We want real diversity and opportunity in a socialist government, not your empty Neoliberal platitudes:

Behold, the best politician we have: Socialist Kshama Sawant, an Indian-American woman, prevailing for the second time against a massive effort of corporate interests to defeat her, winning again because she's created a real movement in Seattle.

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7 users have voted.

"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:

THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"

- Kurt Vonnegut

I can buy that he was murdered, but it seems just as likely to me that a sick monster facing consequences for the first time in his life, with suddenly no powerful friends to cover him, took his life in a dangerous and an extremely under-staffed environment.

No matter what, I would love to see many more people brought down by this, starting with alleged Epstein madam and Chelsea Clinton wedding guest Ghislaine Maxwell.

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Eagles92's picture

@Le Frog About a week or so before Epstein "committed suicide" (I can't recall the exact timeframe), he "attempted suicide" and was subsequently put on "suicide watch." At that point, I think many of us glommed onto what was being projected. The narrative was being built, and none of it was surprising.

Personally, I don't know if he's dead or holed up in a safe house somewhere, but I'm 99% sure the photo they circulated wasn't Epstein and that if he is, in fact, dead, he didn't do it himself.

I also tend to agree this was/is a bipartisan effort.

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bondibox's picture

@Eagles92 3 days, then he was taken off of suicide watch. Because, you know, they served pizza that day and his mood greatly improved.

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F the F'n D's

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@bondibox

because the cameras on his cell broke. It's always so trying to be under surveillance.

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4 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

@Eagles92 @Eagles92 it may be naive of me, but I look at the record of that jail on human rights, safety, staffing, you name it, and it's entirely possible that that delicate scumbag was afraid and desperate for his own escape. He may have feared for his life, both because of his former clients and his new jailmates. I wish he was still alive and that the victims of this nightmare get some kind of justice, and if this was a murder by alleged suicide, that his former clients/buddies just made things worse for themselves while trying to cover their own asses.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

@Le Frog

I'm open to any theory; I can buy that he was murdered, but it seems just as likely to me that a sick monster facing consequences for the first time in his life, with suddenly no powerful friends to cover him, took his life in a dangerous and an extremely under-staffed environment.

Add to that the fact that said "powerful friends" were powerful enough to have all direct evidence of what really happened successfully destroyed or obfuscated beyond use, and we "little people" will never know what really happened.

Even if Epstein had "survived", the obfuscation was already well enough in that he would have escaped conviction; but apparently all the high-power players weren't OK with it, and as a result, Epstein had to die.

Diablo

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8 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

@Le Frog It is really impossible to commit suicide that way.

Hangings don't break the bones in the neck that Epstein broke.

I have asked a number of doctors and they all say the same thing.

Alligator Ed explained this when it happened, if I recall.

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6 users have voted.

The autopsy evidence is difficult, although just possible, to reconcile with suicide. He would have had to have killed himself by jumping off a 5 ft high bunk bed, breaking bones consistent with him being strangled rather than hanging himself. He was too conveniently left alone when he should have been under frequent surveillance. Then there is the missing video evidence.

Epstein almost certainly worked for/with Mossad. Ghislaine Maxwell worked for/with Mossad. Her father Robert Maxwell worked for/with Mossad. (There are entire books on this. It is not a secret.) Les Wexner worked for/with Mossad (and the CIA)(moved a CIA front airline to Columbus among other things). Epstein's job was to obtain evidence to allow the blackmailing of important people so that they would do Israel's bidding. Mossad often collaborated with the CIA because of commonality of interests and it is not a bad idea for the security establishment to have a few tapes on important people when they want a favor. Epstein was caught and the CIA got him off once (hence Alex Acosta's comment that Epstein belonged to intelligence.) His re-arrest was too visible so he became a liability and so he was suicided by Mossad. I expected that he would be killed when he handed himself in and he was. Ghislaine is probably treading on thin ice as well. Note that she has made herself very scarce.

I am not noticing that this has any connection to Trump. The media do everything they can to discredit Trump, certainly, but this doesn't seem to be a particularly egregious example.

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23 users have voted.

@Roy Blakeley Somebody who gets what happened.

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Mark from Queens's picture

this should have been by far the biggest story of the decade. Potentially ensnaring the biggest names indiscriminately across politics and entertainment to show the public how sick and depraved the 1% truly are.

What I'd like to know is what was behind the FBI finally putting the hammer down on him, when he'd so blatantly been protected at all levels of government? When he was captured I knew the story would soon enough be buried. And here we are: the media's buried it, but the wide swath of the public believe he was murdered to prevent the implicating details from coming out.

Whitney Webb's reporting at Mint Press has been really impressive.

Screen Shot 2019-11-08 at 2.09.51 PM.png

Reports that at JFK Airport the louspeaker came on, "Paging Epstein Coverup." The RW rag NY Post also printed the names of those in his book including, Andrew Cuomo, Michael Bloomberg, Alex Baldwin, David Koch, Jimmy Buffet and Henry Kissinger.

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22 users have voted.

"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:

THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"

- Kurt Vonnegut

snoopydawg's picture

@Mark from Queens

I too wondered why he was finally arrested after being free for so long even though rumors were he hadn't given up his vices. I covered Whitney's articles here and after the last one I said something about if he ever gets to trial. Lo and behold the next day he was dead. I just laughed. I don't think he killed himself. He was either killed or smuggled out of prison. But Maxwell being still free makes me think he was killed. And you're right that should have been a huge story. That it wasn't speaks volumes doesn't it?

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15 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

As long as he was alive, no matter where he was he knew too much for too many people to feel safe from some future date where maybe one day he gets religion or has some kind of epiphany that makes him want to tell the world the whole story.
Maybe he would never speak out about the whole story about who was blackmailed, and for what purpose, but maybe he would come out of hiding one day to do just that very thing. So why worry about it.

Then there is the matter of the other people that have to be involved in his world/refuge,I seriously doubt he'd be living a Robinson Crusoe type life and no matter where he was it would require a support system requiring a lot of other people's involvement.
Not to mention that wouldn't all of them also have to be self-exiled because you can't have them going back out into society where they might talk about their job. A lot of potentially busy tongues out there circulating in the outside world and like the saying goes 'the only way two people can for certain keep a secret is if one of them is dead'.

So keeping Epstein alive is very expensive, and risky with so many people in the support chain.

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ppnortney's picture

@aliasalias

I think he had outlived his usefulness and it's not like there aren't a multitude of maggoty douchebags who could take his place. As Whitney Webb's investigative work shows, Epstein's operation was not the only one.

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14 users have voted.

The smaller the mind the greater the conceit. --Aesop

@ppnortney
are you trying to convince us the RAP's (rich and powerful) would throw one of their own to the wolves to save their own expensive skins?

Oh, the hippocrates!

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9 users have voted.

May we be united and strong -- laurel

@QMS @QMS
And waste all that fine meat?

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7 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

@UntimelyRippd

assures us his meat was poisoned.
Not the right spice for the elite.
Campfire

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9 users have voted.

May we be united and strong -- laurel

CB's picture

@aliasalias
where one can live extremely luxurious lives well concealed from the public eye in remote locations.

How many decades has Epstein been bringing young girls to his island, just a short hop from the US mainland, without attracting media attention? All he needs is a bit of cosmetic surgery to get rid of his wrinkles, obtain another Mossad passport and he is good to go.

The only reason Epstein has remained out of jail for this long while openly trafficking and pimping his Lolita's is because he has many, many powerful connections. I don't expect them to abandon him now. He's still very valuable to them.

Now that the MSM and legal system have effectively closed the case, any sightings of Epstein will be put down as "conspiracy theory". A good cover would be to seed the media with reports of sightings from a few dozen locations scattered around the globe. Then it would be relatively easy for him to walk free.

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The Liberal Moonbat's picture

If you're saying the Blue Team spread this in an attempt to place all eyes on Trump, they couldn't possibly have done a blowbackier job - the results speak for themselves:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=epstein+memes&atb=v192-6__&iax=images&ia=images

Far, FAR more interesting is THIS - can you imagine if this had broken in 2016?!?

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15 users have voted.

In the Land of the Blind, the one-eyed man is declared insane when he speaks of colors.

bondibox's picture

@The Liberal Moonbat I'd read the transcript and didn't know the "hot mic" was actually a vid. Linking in the article.

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4 users have voted.

F the F'n D's

The Liberal Moonbat's picture

@bondibox I discovered it on Reddit, where I've lately taken to browsing the (what I like to call) "abyssal humor" threads. You...learn...things...there.

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3 users have voted.

In the Land of the Blind, the one-eyed man is declared insane when he speaks of colors.

Eagles92's picture

Screen Shot 2019-11-09 at 9.04.06 AM_0.png

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The Liberal Moonbat's picture

@Eagles92 Did this happen to YOU? Is it fake? What website was this supposedly on? What?

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In the Land of the Blind, the one-eyed man is declared insane when he speaks of colors.

lotlizard's picture

@The Liberal Moonbat

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The Liberal Moonbat's picture

@lotlizard ...which, naturally, raises the next question: What did he appear to have accomplished that with? My understanding is that American prisoners aren't even allowed to have shoelaces for fear they'll use them for that - and I think that's any jailbird, not just on suicide row (or whatever it's called).

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3 users have voted.

In the Land of the Blind, the one-eyed man is declared insane when he speaks of colors.

lotlizard's picture

@The Liberal Moonbat  
can truly know how, or even if, he died.

My default assumption now is that the official story is never the true story. The only thing that is in question is attaching a nominal year number to when history came to be governed by Orwellian lies. 1963? 1941? 1913? 4004 B.C.?

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

I know that I don't know, if he is dead, whether he committed suicide or not.

However, while I consider the question of whether he is alive or not a toss-up, I consider the idea that, if dead, he was murdered, to be highly probable. Consider who Epstein was--and I mean the facts we know, not the idea that he might have been Mossad. Again, not an improbable idea, but let's stick to the facts we know.

Epstein was a man who ran a service for rich and powerful people (mostly men, from what we know). The service was flying them down to his island where they could spend some recreation time in luxury while availing themselves of the sexual services of young women. It's probable that there were also young men there for those who had that taste, but I've heard of none coming forward. These young women were often not of age of consent, hence the nickname of Epstein's service, "The Lolita Express." Therefore these activities would cast both a moral and legal shadow upon any of the rich and powerful elites who had engaged in them, if the activities came to light.

After years of this man operating under the nod and wink theory of law enforcement and politics, during which even *I* had heard of his service, he gets arrested. Once arrested, he must come to some kind of trial, during which information embarrassing to the rich and powerful who had used his services could come out.

Suddenly, for some reason, he commits suicide at a time when magically the cameras positioned to watch his cell break down.

I'm sorry. The idea that he didn't kill himself is not a meme. It is a hypothesis, and, given the current facts, the most likely hypothesis we have.

Tim Black is good on this subject.

(After hunting down the video in vain)

Well, he WAS good on this subject. Now I can't find the video anywhere.

Basically, he said that where he came from, if a snitch died before he could talk to the cops, nobody thought it was a conspiracy theory to say he'd been killed.

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12 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

CB's picture

Two guards (one not even regular) "fell asleep" - two cameras "not functioning" - cellmate removed twelve hours prior - suicide watch discontinued. It would have been very easy to do a body switch during this time - in fact, easier than killing him.

Epstein would have had a "dead man's switch" (he was much too intelligent to not have set one up) in addition to his extremely powerful connections to have been able evade not only the legal system but also retribution from those whom he had compromised with his "Lolita's" for so many decades.

Cosmetic surgery can do wonders nowadays and his Mossad connections can get him any passport he should require. Due to public exposure his usefulness is now limited for further operations. I figure he is in semi-retirement at some remote location with all the amenities he should desire, including a continuing supply of young virgin girls readily trafficked from Asia, Eastern Europe and even the US for his pleasure.

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