Double dose of bad news--the loss of OPOL and Bernie
I too am saddened by the loss of OPOL. And hopefully he has respite from the earthly concerns which shape us all. His loss will affect something hard to measure, the influence of a political stance, founded in compassion and its twin empathy, which will no longer be heard or read. Memories, can be powerful, altering behavior of those sharing those memories; and without even realizing that behavior has been altered in others exposed such a world scheme. This is a theme, which might be called utopia, in which people really did respond to stress "with the better angels of our souls". We can achieve a glimpse of utopia perhaps but we shall never achieve anything remotely resembling such an ideal. Humans are inherently flawed. Perhaps this is the true nature of original sin: not that we have sinned just by being born but because in our lives we are all capable of sin and all of us do sin.
Rejoice in having known OPOL and his gifts to us, sanity, moderation, consideration.
Stents and Stasis
Consider the political death of Bernard Sanders. I am considering it and am not happy about it. Bernie should have had the chance to finish his second run for presidency, even though the PTB would never let him win. Now, he has lost.
But, you protest concerned that the event may not at all been serious physiologically.
Says who?
And why is this not Bernie's race ender?
So here's a bit of cardio-pathophysiology--a fine topic for a political blog. Well, let's get to the heart of the matter.
Cardiac chest pain: There are basically two types: the simpler one is due to decreased coronary artery blood flow which does not cause tissue death. The resultant pain is called angina pectoris, which amazingly enough means chest pain.
The worse kind of cardiac chest pain is due to myocardial infarction when heart muscle (the myocardium) actually does die. There are differences in total area impacted and location of the damage. Conduction system damage can cause harmful arrhythmias. Arrhythmias can also occur in ischemia (low blood flow without myocardial damage).
Stents are semi-rigid/semi-flexible tubes made of metal or polymers which prop open the walls of an artery. In order for a stent to function properly, the artery must be cleared of as much debris as possible plus have good outflow to the area beyond the obstruction.
Like secrets from the Pentagon, I doubt that we in the general public will get to know the true extent of Bernie's attack. He might be better than new post-stent--or might have lost quite a bit of functioning cardiac tissue, which will not recover despite the stent.
Is Bernie's Primary bid over? In my view, it is. His "heart attack" (even if it is really only an simple anginal attack) will exclude him from the minds of many voters, including those considering voting for him. It is "the appearance" of disease, rather than simply the presence of disease which will do him in, even if he lives twenty more years. The Repugnants will use the word "heart attack", shall I say, liberally. But don't think for one moment that the still-circling sharks in the Klown Kavalcade will take the opportunity to play up the ill-health/ageism aspect.
JoJo is already sensitizing the populace to age-related physical failings (dementia), to say nothing of his moral corruption. With the major candidates of both parties in their seventies, this event will renew the pressure on release of medical information--not just for Biden and Sanders, but likely Warren and Drumpf.
Trump's base doesn't care about the nuances of heart disease etc. Bernie's hard-core boosters won't be deterred either. But likely, the majority of Americans will be concerned. Many will write of Bernie and Biden off as sick geezers who should retire (or in Joe's situation, get exclusive booking at Club Fed).
If EW gains from this, her gains will be muted by some loss of support for her too simply on the ageism/perceived liability to illness.
I have written previously about how Hildebeast is planning to jump into the race. Paradoxically, Bernie's downfall will likely doom her re-entry into campaigning. She was none too healthy physically during 2016. People, especially those not #stillwithHER, remember this also.
In sum, the geriatric wing of Dem aspirants for the Oval Office may have been dealt a fatal blow by the ongoing Biden follies and the acute illness of Bernie. Who does that leave?
This even could really open the contest beyond imagining. The Camel, Spartacus, Tulsi, Yang, Beetlejuice and Jooolian get new chances. Maybe De Blasio jumps back in. Who knows. I sure don't.
I will vote for Bernie if he gets the nomination but I now think odds against this are 2,000,000 to 1.
Comments
Unfortunately,
I agree with your assessment.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
I don't.
But since I never believed he was going to be allowed to take the nomination anyway, well...
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Like you, I am forced...
...to use cynicism as a safety net.
That's when you know your system of government is really screwed up. The only thing creaky and too aged to function properly around here is the Constitution. We can see the dangers in that just by looking at what has happened to the US.
Populations don’t like wars. They have to be lied into it.
That means we can be “truthed” into peace. — Julian Assange
This was my first thought about Bernie too
Yes, yes, I know it's not fatal. I know he's far from dead and I know every excuse one could make. I know because I've seen it in my family. My ex-father in law was someone I would describe as having Bernie like energy and youth. The stent changed things. It had to.
It's not like I ever thought Bernie would be allowed to win. I feel the media has been lying in wait for one "thing" to be able to totally write him off, be it scandal, "gaffe" or health scare. Well, guess what? Here it is. I think you're right about people's concerns already being there. Expect the media to drill this home. I just don't see how he bounces back.
What I hope the takeaway is will be an increased push to build an actual movement, rather than resting everything on the shoulders of one person. That's the thing I find myself wondering about this campaign. Where's the movement? What happened to "not me, us"? I'm sure there are examples, but there seems to be a lot less of it this time and a lot more "Bernie is our only hope" type of talk. It's a little worrisome that it's been four years since the last campaign and aside from "The Squad" (who personally I'm skeptical about) who's supposed to carry on when Bernie isn't around?
Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.
Why Hand Ammunition to the Enemy?
EDIT: I meant this as a reply to Alligator Ed, not to Dr. Carpenter.
Seems your prognosis, Alligator Ed, is more political than medical
You are only speculating about the medical prognosis because, as you admit, you don't know the exact situation. Only his doctors have that knowledge at this point.
And your political prognosis is off, too.
It sounds, albeit not vile, like a lot of the stuff coming from Centrist Democrats meant to bury Bernie couched in faint praise or in this case almost a post-mortem.
And check out the many reply comments to this tweet documenting personal experiences with splents:
Let's also consider the pluses instead of just the negatives. Bernie did not smoke tobacco which greatly lessens his health risk factors. He does not continually chomp down Big Macs. He was a long distance runner. Etc. Etc.
Why hand ammunition to the enemy?
Very good that he
hasn't ever smoked. But if he hasn't smoked or woofed down the Big Macs on a regular basis, not sure what might have caused this, and wonder whether his overall diet has been a factor.
All that traveling in the last 4 yrs of stumping and plane flights and suspect hotel food and having to eat the slop they serve up at some of these political gatherings (I'm thinking IA here) probably has not been the best thing for his health.
Rec he go to a mostly vegetarian diet, if he hasn't already. Drink plenty of Concord Grape Juice (diluted), and the occasional small offering of red wine, both good for the heart.
First of all, why call the opposition the enemy?
Second, you might take the good doctor to heart. Bernie is 78. People of that age, even those who have had remarkably good health, do not recover anywhere nearly as well as people of good health even ten years younger.
Third, this is major political damage even if not all that damaging physically, if for no other reason than it makes his choice for VP that much more critical. And in the primaries no voter will know who that VP choice will likely be. It will make fence-sitters inclined to get off and choose some other candidate.
Because they are the enemy.
Or, worse, they are the enemy's flunkies.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Our Revolution is the movement. I get emails from them
every day. I have contributed to them to support progressive candidates.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
The appearance of disease
only matters if the person isn't a Chosen One.
Hillary didn't lose because she appeared (and probably was) physically impaired, no matter how much rationalists here might wish that was the reason.
If Warren had a heart attack right now it wouldn't alter her trajectory in the slightest.
However, this gives an opening to the MSM to try to take him down. We'll see.
I've always believed that the DNC isn't going to let Bernie take the nomination anyway. They're corrupt as hell and would do anything to stop him.
But I'm not going to support the notion that all is lost for a rational reason, cause it ain't. If we had a non-corrupt election process, he'd still have a shot. IMO.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I keep seeing in my mind's eye
the image of Hillary being thrown into her van like a side of beef, after she collapsed at the 9/11 ceremony in NYC. And the photo of her shoe that got left behind in the gutter.
"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi
"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone
Why didn't they leave the rest of HER in the gutter?
Much of the rest of her was already there.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
immature alligators
They were probably worried some immature alligators would arise from the sewers and eat her. (Aren't you glad to be a mature alligator and living in a swamp where alligators belong?)
/s
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Yeah, me too.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
It definitely
matters, Chosen One or not, if the candidate is 78 yo. Knock yourselves out some of you with detailed medical procedure explanations, but this is a perception problem. Few will bother getting into the nitty gritty of the science and routineness. They will think 78 yo, and how this is not a good thing, and he's 78 and would turn 80 in the first year of his presidency.
Hillary was able to survive her health issue b/c of course she wasn't despised by the MSM but also b/c she was under-70, so got a benefit of the doubt. 3 yrs later, she appears to be fine physically, if not politically.
I was never happy with RBG deciding to stay on as Obama was about to depart. And right now she appears to be barely hanging on. I thought it was a selfish decision not to step aside after more than 20 yrs on the Bench to allow someone younger to have a shot.
This one for Bernie comes at a bad time, just as people were coming off a summer of scary Bigfoot sightings in the woods and were beginning to focus on the primaries, and as his campaign was making necessary corrections. I wish him all the best health, but questions about his physical health is the last thing he needs right now as we are about to enter the home stretch before voting starts.
So at a time when he needs to be going all out, he has no choice, imo, but to cut back in his campaigning. He and his campaign will therefore need to be doubly smart and creative about how to carry on and make each moment count. A less is more strategy should be implemented, and it could work, although his nom chances don't look promising at the moment.
I’m sorry, but do you really think it’s possible
to be taken seriously about anything after referencing the supposedly shaken public temperament over Bigfoot sightings?
Why?
For gawd's sake we are in the middle of the longest election season evah and the primaries are many moons away. I see no reason that Bernie or any of the other candidates need to be out there every day balls to the wall when many people aren't even paying attention to the race.
For what gawd damned reason did Liz think it was a good idea to start the rat race so early? I will tell you my opinion. It is just one more thing for the PTB to distract us all from what is actually happening in DC behind the scenes. As is the impeachment 'inquiry' and the Barr investigation. We are being Q'd on a massive scale. No one is talking any more about the kids being held in detention camps at the border. Or that Trump is cutting refugees allotment to 40%. Or of the many, many other things that both parties are doing while millions of us are dying from lack of health care, living on the streets, going to bed hungry, ect.... ad nauseum. Like this:
'Dystopian' Plan by Trump Administration to Harvest DNA From Undocumented Immigrants Draws Outrage From Rights Advocates
Trust me, this has the consent by both parties as we move further into fascism. What is happening at the border is eventually going to happen to the next group and then the next one and then....
I think we need to focus more on things like this than this silly horse race when the winning horse has already been chosen.
“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt
Indeed
And once they have the immigrants DNA and put it in their data files, what is next? Tattoo them!
“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt
four more years
"Four more years", n'est-ce pas?
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Who is the winning horse?
Tell me, tell me, come on tell me the answer
Coz it sure seems like Helter Skelter to me
(with apologies to the Beatles)
Seriously, I think the outcome is very much in play.
I see a pretty equitable three-way contest shaping up between Bernie, Biden and Warren.
I think Bernie can win this time around, especially if he does well in the first four primaries through Super Tuesday, March 2, 2020.
In 2016, I only really entertained the notion he had a chance when he won the Michigan primary through sometime just after the NY primary (I forget which primary broke my optimism).
I believe only Bernie has any chance of beating Trump now because of Biden and Warren's neolibcon negatives, but that's speculation on my part given that all the polls project any Democratic challenger beating or coming close to beating Trump.
If not now, when?
For me, given the window of opportunity to put the brakes on climate change so we don't experience irreversable climate catastrophe by around 2050, the time is only now.
Cheers!
I'm very skeptical
I'm going off what happened in the last primary. I don't watch the news so I don't know if they are covering him better than they did last time, but I'm seeing lots of clips of them attacking him personally as well as his policies. ByeDone was leading the polls months before he even declared or entered the race. Manufacturing his place in the polls for when he gets the nod. With all the problems he has had the media should be saying that he has no chance of winning.
“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt
One thing's for Sure: Biden is Falling
I never thought it would happen. But never underestimate the Dem Leadership's penchant for shooting themselves in their own feet. The decision to go ahead with the impeachment inquiry looks like it's going to sink Biden at the very least into a neck to neck three-way race. Maybe the decision was made with that in mind, at least in terms of the Clinton faction. Who knows? Maybe the Obama faction, too, not wanting to have Obummer's legacy tarnished by Bungling Joe. Nobody in the leadership gets blamed while Trump sticks the knife in Biden and keeps twisting it. Trump seems to be enjoying it immensely. But the reality of impeachment not going anywhere in the Senate will probably also hurt the chances of whoever becomes the Democratic nominee. Nothing like repeated neolibcon failure to turn off the electorate's enthusiasm.
Even some of the MSM folks are catching on including Van Jones who is talking about the writing on the wall.
And Aaron Mate just penned a spot on article about impeachment at Nation.
Who can lead the US to partnership with Russia and not hostility
Stent, schment, what I want to see is, how strong is the will to peace in a candidate’s heart.
Did I say that the optics were good?
No, I didn't.
I said it isn't automatically all over. In other words, Bernie supporters have no rational reason to pack it in and rally behind Elizabeth Warren, which is obviously what we are supposed to do.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
you caught that too, eh?
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
The concern trolling
On social media and coming from MSM is sickening, Its all Bernie should drop out and take care of himself because Warren is the same as him and besides shes a woman.
As someone who used to work in campaign politics,
though not at a presidential level, obviously, Bernie does not need to cut back on the campaigning unless his doctor tells him to.
There is no political reason to cut back on the campaigning, and there may be no health reason to do so.
Did Hillary "cut back on the campaigning" when she was, as Centaurea said, "thrown into a van like a side of beef?" Did anybody even mildly in support of her suggest that she should?
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Funny, but I don't remember that either...
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Well, let's face it,
it's not like she was campaigning that hard to begin with.
"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi
"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone
More champagne, please...
Well, we'd need to see the clips from the secret video cams at The Hamptons garden get-togethers to know just how hard she campaigned.
Now, please pass the caviar...
Let the record show Hillary at her last Hampton's fund-raiser
...prior to the Democratic Convention.
Is that Cher?
Populations don’t like wars. They have to be lied into it.
That means we can be “truthed” into peace. — Julian Assange
In the land of good taste - none.
Cher? But, of course.
This photo is actually a good example of Her working hard campaigning. Her was working so hard that she forgot to pack her outfit. Her had to stop by the local Goodwill to grab what they had.
Frankly her wardrobe advisor
should've been publicly tarred and feathered for putting that outfit on Hillary. It looks like a housefrau apron.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Finally
something we can agree on.
Though being a bit of a stickler for the social proprieties and tradition, I think both her Frumpy Frau fashion adviser and the Hillfrau herself shoulda been not only tarred and feathered, but run outta town on a rail.
This frightful visual display by a presidential candidate ranks down there with Mike Dukakis sitting in the tank with the ridiculous helmet, and Calvin Coolidge putting on the Indian feathered headdress.
Hey, I get most of my clothes at Goodwill, too
Then again, I've never concerned myself with fashion.
But just as an observation, that tent Hillary was wearing looks like it was patterned from something in the wallpaper section of Home Depot .
Why imagine the most
pessimistic outcome? Currently Donald is on the ropes as he drags along Half Pence, Pompeo and Rudy "Roy Cohn" Giuliani. I consider that a good thing.
And as an added benefit to this impeachment inquiry, Biden is getting the treatment as well. A two-fer. I thought he would go down, predicted it, over his cognitive decline, but it looks like it could be over Huntergate. Whatever it takes. With the nearly drooling Biden as the nominee, we were looking at four more for the Conman Don.
And the R senate? Actually several have already spoken out for the whistleblower and generally expressed or implied concerns about Donald's conduct. Rumney might have more to say soon. Susan Collins too, perhaps the Grassman. As for the rest, notice they are mostly hiding from the press, afraid to associate themselves too tightly with Titanic Trump. Not the kind of behavior one would expect if they considered it a favorable situation.
As more and more evidence becomes available and as Donald himself provides more impeachment material by his public remarks, it will become dicier for senate Rs to continue to hold firm for their Mob Boss leader as the public perceives R senators as cowardly enablers. And it will all inure to the benefit of Ds and the nominee in 2020, whether Trump is still around to run or if it's fallen to the Cigar Store Indian to take it in the shorts. It will galvanize the Dem base and indies and rouse non-voters types from their slumber and indifference to vote out a clearly unstable non-genius frightening figure, and the united DP and anti-Trump indy and mod R forces will significantly outnumber the 42% of cultists trying to preserve their cult leader.
(edit: this was intended as a reply to wally's "Biden falling" post upstream)
Fashion --
most of it sucks, and so the entire industry oughtta probably be outlawed, is my view.
If we could just agree on one pretty good period in men's and women's fashion -- say, 1966-69 -- then we could simplify things and just make all the clothes in the style and spirit of that colorful time, with slight variations permitted without official approval.
This would also allow thousands of attractive young women to eat again. And free up the designers to apply their creative skills in more useful areas of life.
That was an expensive designer garment
created to hide the tubes, bags, and other machinery we caught glimpses of later.
Technological marvel
Exactly. Gawd knows what pumps, tubes, injectors, and wire bundles that mess what hiding. Truthfully, I also believe that's exactly what those awful garments were about.
As much as I never wanted to watch her, I was secretly wanting to see a pack of lithium polymers light off under those rags. Makes me wonder whether they were fire resistant.....
Best thanks
from someone with a photo in a place of honor above the couch of a man in a flattened hat holding a cup of tea as he crosses Canada under his own power!
You guys are funny.
Thanks for making my morning a bit better. Too many doctor's appointments this week.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Your "diagnosis" seems premature
To paraphrase Mark Twain, the rumors of Bernie's death, either physical or political, are greatly exaggerated.
I haven't consulted my crystal ball (not to be confused with the excellent Krystal Ball, who I'm sure will have something to say), so I don't know what effect this will have on either Bernie's campaign or the progressive movement.
But I surely am not ready to turn up my toes and give up. To those progressives who are inclined to do that, I'd say, get off the road first. Get out of the way.
"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi
"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone
I don't think this is going to be a deciding factor.
If he comes back sounding strong and upbeat it'll be a sign of strength not weakness. And a break in his hectic campaign schedule won't hurt a thing either. Gives him a chance to catch his breath and re-energize and his vocal chords can use a little time off too, his voice was pretty raspy during the last debate. I know it's damn sure not gonna cause him to lose any of us that have been with him forever.
All I want is the truth. Just give me some truth. John Lennon
Cheney came into office with an incredibly bad heart history...
didn't stop him... still hasn't.
W had a stent procedure in 2013.
Both of these monsters are still walking and talking.
My guess is that Bernie's family is practically having to tie him down to the bed.
I think this is a blip in his campaign and he will be back on stage soon.
Either you (Alligator Ed) or I are wrong, but I think Bernie's history supports my view.
We'll see.
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
We all know
how in those pre- or early internet days when the MSM controlled the info flow completely, that they carried water and covered up mightily on a whole host of things for Bush-Cheney all during that period, I would say roughly from 1999-2004 at its most blatant. Bad news was unwelcome and was managed with half-day coverage at most, as I remember it.
I hope you're right about a full speedy recovery. But in the meantime people and the media will demand more information on his medical situation, and let's hope it turns out to be merely a matter of a relatively lower-level diagnosis with a promising prognosis.
It's speculation
at this point until we get more information from doctors and the Bernie camp, but an important point to note is that we still only have limited news about what happened and until we get more, there will be talk.
This author at Slate, who seems to know this area of medicine, suggests it is very possible Bernie either had a diagnosis of a heart attack or unstable angina, both serious matters. In either case, if true, it would not bode well for Bernie.
(I notice too that independent analyst Michael Tracey, who is favorably inclined to Bernie if short of a full Chariton-like endorsement, also wonders whether this was a heart attack.)
So in reviewing the Reptile's post above, I would actually concur with the first 2/3ds of his essay, though I think the Slate writer made a clearer medical case for this possibly being a serious situation (emphasis on "possibly" -- we just don't have enough info right now). I wouldn't say Bernie is finished in this race, but rather damaged, maybe more than just a slight ding. And he will get questions about his health and of course age, at the next debate in 10 days, which won't be helpful towards regaining political momentum.
And indeed Warren will be the beneficiary for the moment as her 70 yrs will seem like 60 to many looking at the other elders. She will benefit until the time, which seems destined to happen eventually, that she trips and falls and injures herself doing that risky running onto the stage thing she does.
Why emphasize the worst IMAGINED prognosis?
As the eminent Dr. Alligator Ed all too briefly noted, the possibility surely presents itself that Bernie merely experienced the less problematic of two types of chest pain:
I trust that Bernie, Jane and his family will make sure that they are all absolutely clear about his health condition. If it's decided that he moves forward towards the nomination, and I think it will be revealed soon enough, then I'll be satisfied that the decision is based on a prognosis based on no or very minimal tissue death that is not life-threatening.
The folks at Slate of course emphasize the worst possible scenarios. Indeed, today you could drive your car and wind up in a catastrophic accident. And Howdy Doody Warren could find she has severe diabetes that could prove to be debiliating. Trump or Biden could be diagnosed with brain aneurisms which would go a long way in explaining some of their behavior. Hey, and FDR had polio and still did a pretty damn good job.
B/c apparently
from a medical standpoint, the "worst IMAGINED diagnosis" in Bernie's case doesn't take much of a leap of imagination, given what we currently know.
A stent
. . . to probable imminent death is a ridiculously big leap of a fucked up imagination.
BTW, Bernie went up 9 points in CA in a recent poll and is in a virtual tie with Biden and Warren:
https://progressivebrief.com/new-california-poll-sanders-makes-big-gains...
Right
from some outfit "PPIC" that I haven't heard of. Biden 22, Warren 23, Sanders 21. Three candidates above the 15 percent mark, they split all the delegates between them. That basically neutralizes CA as a factor in the nomination. Of course, it's months until Super Tuesday and anything can happen.
"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone
No way of knowing
. . . but I think it's closer to a three way split nationally and in many states at this point than most polls indicate. Bernie has a history of not polling well, then he does well.
We all know the problems with polls.
Biden is having serious problems. Trump is hammering him every day. Did you see the Nickelback video with the photo of him and Biden Jr. and a Ukrainian oil magnate? It's just a matter of who is going to pick up those lost votes. All indications were that Bernie is the second choice of Biden voters.
If Bernie gets it together and makes a strong showing at the next debate ten days from now, he might even get some better MSM coverage. Hey, it was looking for awhile like he wasn't getting any coverage, then he got the splents and he sequewayed right back into Medicare for All -- or Berniecare as it might better be named given the weak tea being offered by the other candidates.
Actually it might
have been the Secular Talk guy or Jordan Chariton, both big Bernie backers, who were giving a tongue lashing to the Bernie camp for lousy marketing of his M4A proposal.
Might as well call it Berniecare -- it would help simplify things, distinguish him from the pack, and it sounds much better than the MSM's suggestion of "Bernie's M4A Middle Class Tax Hike Program".
Indeed --
these later state primary polls are just not terribly relevant as there are at least 4 primary contests (exact number??) that occur prior to CA and SupTues, and we know from the history of primaries that early voting results in the initial contests greatly influence voter preferences in later ones.
The only thing worth looking at in that Ca poll is that Kamala continues to drop. She was never a big name pol in this state -- no one pays much attention to what the AG does, and she had barely become senator, with nothing to speak of in her favor except for an unsurprising election victory over a pathetically weak Dem opponent.
I notice Bill Clinton and George W. Bush and Dick Cheney
are still wandering around wreaking havoc, and nobody is suggesting any of them is about to keel over.
Ditto Hillary.
It only starts mattering VERY VERY MUCH when it's one of the two somewhat anti-establishment candidates left in the race--and the only one who has a chance (if anybody other than Warren has a chance) at the nomination.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
You know why.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
A lot of us here know exactly why
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
The folks at Slate ..
Now there's a group of editors who aren't part of the media manufacturing machine, amirite?
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Is Michael Tracey
clean enough for you to consider as a serious analyst of the political situation? Today he too wondered aloud whether Bernie had a heart attack.
It was really a call for more information, as the public is entitled to, but his question is certainly not out of bounds, especially considering the info in the cited article. And at least the Slate author has put his real name to his words. And it's clear speculation on his part, as he notes, not making any accusation of a Bernie camp coverup for instance.
Asking for more information is not the same
as declaring him, or his campaign, on the verge of death.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
A small distinction to some maybe
but a relevant one for the rest of us.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
A discussion about concern trolling Bernie
If interested, check it out by clicking here.
Edit: corrected wrong link
Your issue then
is with Michael Tracey and that Slate author. Tracey has considerable credibility in the political field. And the Slate author goes into plenty of specific medical detail. Rebut the article if you like, but so far I've seen only shoot the messenger arguments.
Stents can mean any number of things
including people feeling much better and going about their business for years a la George W. Bush and Bill Clinton.
My "issue" is with people immediately leaping to engraving the gravestone for Bernie's campaign. That may be what happens, but if everybody decides it already has, that will neatly eliminate Bernie from consideration and shut down his campaign, and possibly his movement, very efficiently. And it will shut him down regardless of whether he ends up having an incapacitating health problem or not.
Convenient and efficient and lovely for everybody.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Yeah, I always go to Slate--
right after I check Vox.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
heh, heh,
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Sounds like
I should check with you next time for your Approved List of Reliable and Trustworthy News Sources and Commentary.
Not at all.
Feel free to read, quote, and rely upon any source you want. That's part of the Bill of Rights, at least by implication.
I also get to have my opinions about those sources or any others, and express it.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
LOL. This pulled me in.
Populations don’t like wars. They have to be lied into it.
That means we can be “truthed” into peace. — Julian Assange
Well, any enterprise of Markos Moulitsas'
would be bound to pull one in, wouldn't it?
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
1.4 million donors
Get well Bernie. We got your back in the meantime.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
the people I know who have had stents installed
found them to be "a new lease on life". It made a big improvement in their energy levels and how physically active they could be. Plus, it seems to be a very quick installation/recovery period, especially compared to the multiple bypass operations my father had 20-30 years ago.
Sure, anything can (and probably will) be spun in a negative fashion. But when I look at how active Sanders has been up to now (I doubt I could match his pace and I'm mid 60s in age) even the MSM is going to have a bit of difficulty making him look to be at death's door if the stent just ensures he can maintain the same pace. If it actually improves his blood flow over what he's had recently he might find he has even better energy reserves for his campaign schedule.
I think there's also a small advantage in that, AFAIK, he hasn't been looking like a sick old man the way Biden has. So that should make it more difficult to portray him that way if they don't have lots of video of "sick old Bernie" to work with.
recommend a step back and wait
Although Alligator Ed, our Essayist, presents a well thought-out and cogent array of considerations, I think that some caution is indicated before any member of the c99 community makes any new major decisions regarding Bernie Sanders.
Why?
Because we just lost OPOL and are still mourning that loss. This colors our perceptions and biases our decisions. So I think we need to heed the common wisdom when a major death occurs "in the family" as it were, and simply leave things as they are until future events unfold to show us what decisions to make.
As things now stand, the jury is still out on Bernie Sanders' physical health. And even as he is, he's still miles better than Joe Biden, whose mental fitness is definitely in question; Elizabeth Warren, whose integrity isn't free from concern; etc.
Let's see if Bernie can recover politically. If he recovers physically (and chances of that are good to excellent) he should be able to recover politically as well.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
I hope your wish for Bernie's excellent recovery comes true.
This is not the way his campaign should have played out--although, it isn't yet done. Candidates should be judged on their merits. If this were so we'd have a damn fewer number of Clowns--Beto O'Rourke! Give me a break! And the fucking Camel--what a piece of excrement.
Thank you!
Indeed! And thank you!
And that advice I gave is standard for anyone who has suffered a major death in the family: make no major decisions of choice for a week or two.
And OPOL's passing definitely counts.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
a few things i'd add to this cogent essay
of the alligator's for consideration:
there's been buzz as to the Q of which candidate aoc would endorse, bernie or liz; in this tweet she seems to kinda/sorta blame, or at least reference hard campaigning. might that tip the scales for her? or will see wait and see...?
second, once he's back on the trail, might it be that he'll try to act like the Superman in wally's political memester tweet above to prove how fit he is? over-compensate might be the term.
third, it would be a good thing, imo, if candidates' health status were pretty transparent,
but i'd include mental health as well. clearly biden is exhibiting signs of reagan-esqe 'don't cry for me argentina' syndrome. and that bloody eye sclera in the lateral part of his left eye? what was that about?
fourth, while diet seems to play a part in arterial plaque build-up (the bad cholesterol, calcium, fibrin, and dead cells, some people are born to be predisposed to atherosclerosis, although having been a doc, or still being one, the alligator might know more about that. so we'll hope that his docs do know what to advise him to eat and not eat, although most docs aren't taught much about say: the benefits of EV olive oil and vaso-dialilating foods (warmish green chiles, garlic,) and spices like cumin that might help.
keeping one's gut clean is also very important according to iris diagnosis: iridology. daily intestinal cleansing with psyllium seed husks, and adding multi-strain pro-biotics i important as well.
Hi Wendy. I, too, had those thoughts
...when I first heard about Bernie's procedure. They are soft preemptive remedies, as is a stent btw, for an underlying issue.
.
I thought that's what he has been doing, all this time. Like each time he (or Biden) hop up the steps to the stage. That's definitely an over-compensating geezer thing. The handlers should tell them to climb the steps like normal people do. Heh.
But this one rang a loud bell for me:
.
I've been calling for brain scans from the moment I arrived in politics. Loudly. We're electing a President for chrissake. What could be more important that an accurate mental fitness report.
As for physical health, I'd be happy voting for a brain in a jar for President, if the brain was intelligent and sane.
Needless to say, I was ahead of my time and my demands were met with hostility and stern lectures about Constitutional protections. But there has been some evolution in this species over the years, and a mental health evaluation has become less threatening. See? Donald Trump was good for something, after all.
.
I don't know. I'm concerned for Joe. That's a question for Doctor Ed for sure.
Populations don’t like wars. They have to be lied into it.
That means we can be “truthed” into peace. — Julian Assange
yes, you say evolution,
& i say devolution, 'so let's call the whole thing off!' ; )
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3a9BO_BN0Ro]
lol, i'm not a bit surprised your idea was (ahem) challenged, but i can dig it. 'brain in a jar', well hilarious, but whose brain? spock's?
i'm guessing you're thinking of PET scans (positive emission tomography) or fMRIs, and as it turns out both an detect psychopathology, and PETs can certainly detect dementia and other brain...conditions. so i say Yes to PET!
i haven't watch bern nor biden forever, so i hadn't known they'd both been hop-hopping for youthful images. but as they say, perception is all with candidates: 'who would ya rather have a beer with?', 'who would ya trust to walk your dog?', yanno, important shite like that.
It's a good thing Bernie isn't sick enough
.
...isn't sick enough for a bypass. Or, we would already be 'hanging the crepe.' **
.
Well, too bad for the uncommitted voters. They'll just have to get used to voting for the Lesser Of Two Evils — like the rest of us must. It's a teachable moment.
________________________________
** See, Pascal's wager and the hanging of crepe. - NCBI
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › pubmed
Hanging of crepe refers to one type of strategy employed by physicians in communicating prognoses to families of critically ill patients. This approach offers the bleakest, most pessimistic prediction of the patient's outcome, presumably in an effort to lessen the family's suffering if the patient dies of his illness.
[Edit = add footnote]
Populations don’t like wars. They have to be lied into it.
That means we can be “truthed” into peace. — Julian Assange
Crepe hanging is an art
The best approach to giving bad news is an individualized approach for informing concerned others. It isn't appropriate to paint overly optimistic assessments of a disease course, especially early in the course. Prognoses are only guesses, although often very accurate ones.
A balanced presentation should be presented to those concerned. When the situation is bleak, a thoughtful suggestion that better outcomes, although unlikely, still remain possible.
In this essay, I avoided any medical prognosis. I offered only a political prognosis. Wally was correct in observing that the episode still allows Bernie to continue campaigning, which I hoper it does. This Klown Kavalkade has offered precious little in the way of issue discussion. Bernie is THE one candidate who can always be counted on to emphasize issues. Tulsi does too but issue-oriented speech is Bernie's strong point--and one he's practiced for his entire public career.
The subtlety of "heart attack", "myocardial infarction", coronary thrombosis, cardiac ischemia, heart failure, etc. are too much for the majority of Americans--many of whom can not remember even to take their one dose daily medicine to prevent their own health issues from getting out of control.
I am adept at hanging crepe. I'll take orders--any color preferences--or do you prefer basic black?
I'll take black.
And cover all the mirrors, while you're at it.
Populations don’t like wars. They have to be lied into it.
That means we can be “truthed” into peace. — Julian Assange
"I'll take evidence-based medicine for 200."
.
I'm thinking, "What is Metformin?"
Or, were you referring to Aspirin?
Populations don’t like wars. They have to be lied into it.
That means we can be “truthed” into peace. — Julian Assange
one dose daily medicine
Alligator Ed dixit:
et tu, Pluto's Republic, respondit:
In this socio-political environment?
Delysid.
/s
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
“Ask your doctor if Delysid is right for you” — ;-) n/t
Most Americans have perfectly functional
close relatives with stents. I doubt many of them will be in much of a tizzy about it.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
I disagree.
Good Lord! I'm 84 with 6 stents and they don't slow me down, my age does. They keep me alive and moving. That's what they're for. I just sent Bernie a donation by way of encouragement.
-Greed is not a virtue.
-Socialism: the radical idea of sharing.
-Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
John F. Kennedy, In a speech at the White House, 1962
You made my day, Polkageist!
Keep on truckin'!
I know, right!
smh
and by the way, good on ya, polkageist.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
This is not a good thing.
While many on this board (even an 84 year old poster) want to minimize this, I won't, or can't, because of a situation that happened to my son-in-law's father. It was not the stent per se that caused his demise, it was a combination of things. Not long after the stent, he had a fall and hit his head. He had a bad brain bleed from the fall which was significantly aggravated by the blood thinners that stents require. Although he somewhat recovered from the brain bleed he later had a heart attack one night and was found dead the next morning.
Like Bernie he was in very good health before he had his stent(s)put in. Unlike Bernie, he never had angina; his blockage was found on a routine treadmill test. So he never had any cardiac symptoms before his fatal heart attack. The stent(s) did not protect him from having a fatal heart attack. Moreover, he was 71 when he died.
Yes there will be many people who think this is no big deal. There will be others like me who think it is, or probably, or possibly is. It makes Sanders' VP choice a big fucking deal and in the primaries no one knows who that will be.
Not only Bernie, Us
The movement, the critical mass that Bernie helped create and crystalize, is still alive and pumping strong as is Bernie - until we learn for sure otherwise. I have faith in Bernie to do what's right. If he feels anything other than wanting and feeling personally safe about continuing his historic and crucial run for the presidency, he'll let us know and get us going in the right direction. I know some folks don't feel like me having experienced the heartbreak of 2016 perhaps much more profoundly than me. And that's OK. I doubt I'll ever support any other candidate ever again unless Bernie wins. So it goes. La lucha continua . . . Let it Be. . . with or without me.
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