Debate Open Thread
Health Care
ByeDone brings up MyBoss (drink)
Biden says Warren is for Bernie, but he is for Barack on healthcare. #DemDebate #Democraticdebate pic.twitter.com/pMgUpA2MOR
— Sarah Reese Jones (@PoliticusSarah) September 13, 2019
Bernie:Let us be clear, Joe, in the United States of America, we have spending twice as much per capita on health care as the Canadians or any other major country on earth.
Biden: This is America.
Sanders: Yeah, but Americans don't want to pay twice as much as other countries. And they guarantee health care to all people. Under my Medicare for All proposal, when you don't pay out of pocket and you don't pay premiums, maybe you've run into people who love their premiums. I haven't. What people want is cost effective health care, Medicare for All will save the average American substantial sums of money on his or her health care bill.
Bernie: The US spends more on health care than any other modern country.
Biden: This is America.
Wow.... pic.twitter.com/enCZALtCMm
— Walker Bragman (@WalkerBragman) September 13, 2019
Warren once again says that people should have access to health care.
What they want is access to health care.
I'll add more in comments
Comments
Drink indeed
I turned this off after 10 minutes or so because I was screaming at the TV and thinking about the excellent tonic water I just found at the grocery store.
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
Yup
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Some "lefty" video reactions
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPmIngxfYSo]
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3i_dMW93po]
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCze3LGMuVc]
Bernie...
ByeDone's word salad on health care
Yep. If unions don't have to pay for insurance then wages should go up. "The president myfriend." He is different from president MyBoss I guess.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Regarding wars, and especially regime-change wars,
I'll repeat a comment I made elsewhere:
- - - -
For me, Bernie should have been in the loser column last night. His response on Venezuela was following the standard American Empire line. What kind of socialist (or "democratic socialist") waxes enthusiastic over yet another U.S. regime change war? And no mention of the people who have died because of the U.S. sanctions.
I have read his some of his proposals, and it makes no sense to me that he would act this way toward a different country. His proposals and votes on domestic affairs, and his votes against the Pentagon budget, have usually shown a clear support of people over the moneyed interests. Why can't he see that the neoliberal (/neoconservative) agenda is wreaking havoc not only in the U.S., but in other countries as well?
On another note, I am relieved to see that he's sticking to his guns on killing off private health insurance. I just wish it were possible during a "debate" to explain to the public why it's so important to do that.
- - - -
When I add in his statements and votes on Russia, I feel uneasy.
ByeDone on crime and prison
Gee..if only ByeDone had been in a position to do something about this. Oh wait! And why are so many people in prison for drug crimes in the first place, Joe? You created and passed legislation to do just that. We know your history and you don't get to rewrite it.
Yes I am having fun! This is who the democrats are trying to saddle us with.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Anyone hear this?
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Found it
Wow.. what the hell is his wife, family and fellow democrats thinking of letting him run? Watch Kambama..I think she did a face palm. BTW he never came close to answering the question.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
good lord!
I would like to read that as text, to be able to savor each word.
Just be thankful that you aren't a Spanish translator
and had to translate what he said. Here is one on another of his answers on I believe climate change.
Then there's this..
His poll numbers should drop like a rock tomorrow.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Well here you go
Linsey Davis: Mr. Vice President, I want to talk to you about inequality in schools and race. In a conversation about how to deal with segregation in schools back in 1975, you told a reporter, “I don’t feel responsible for the sins of my father and grandfather. I feel responsible for what the situation is today, for the sins of my own generation, and I’ll be damned if I feel responsible to pay for what happened 300 years ago.” You said that some 40 years ago, but as you stand here tonight, what responsibility do you think that Americans need to take to repair the legacy of slavery in our country?
Joe Biden: Well, they have to deal with the … Look, there is institutional segregation in this country. And from the time I got involved, I started dealing with that. Redlining, banks, making sure that we are in a position where—
Look, we talk about education. I propose that what we take is those very poor schools, the Title 1 schools, triple the amount of money we spend from $15 to $45 billion a year. Give every single teacher a raise to the equal of … A raise of getting out of the $60,000 level.
No. 2, make sure that we bring in to the help with the stud—the teachers deal with the problems that come from home. The problems that come from home, we need… We have one school psychologist for every 1,500 kids in America today. It’s crazy. The teachers are required—I’m married to a teacher. My deceased wife is a teacher. They have every problem coming to them.
Make sure that every single child does, in fact, have three, four, and five-year-olds go to school. School! Not day care, school. We bring social workers into homes of parents to help them deal with how to raise their children. It’s not that they don’t want to help. They don’t know what— They don’t know what quite what to do. Play the radio. Make sure the television—excuse me, make sure you have the record player on at night. The phone—make sure the kids hear words. A kid coming from a very poor school—er, a very poor background will hear 4 million words fewer spoken by the time they get there.
Davis: Thank you, Mr. Vice President.
Biden: No, I’m going to go like the rest of them do, twice over, OK? Because here’s the deal. The deal is that we’ve got this a little backwards. And by the way, in Venezuela, we should be allowing people to come here from Venezuela. I know Maduro. I’ve confronted Maduro. No. 2, you talk about the need to do something in Latin America. I’m the guy that came up with $740 million to see to it those three countries, in fact, change their system so people don’t have to chance to leave. You’re all acting like we just discovered this yesterday! Thank you very much.
Alrighty then...this makes things more clear!
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Thanks for the transcript because Biden's answer is looneyville
talking and so chock full of absurdities when you listen to it but when I read the exchange I realize I'd missed this jewel.
"I’ve confronted Maduro. No. 2, you talk about the need to do something in Latin America. I’m the guy that came up with $740 million to see to it those three countries, in fact, change their system so people don’t have to chance to leave." (my emphasis)
Facepalm time.
Jukebox Joe is a scratched, warped record, skipping tracks
He was loaded with tunes recorded by the center-right of the Democratic Party in 1980. They never changed out any of the old 45s or his needle, and he's sat in the corner grinding away for four decades.
And, I used to think the Soviet Union had the worst, crappy old leaders and political apparatus.
that's the funniest comment in the 2020 cycle - you win!
I got a full-on belly laugh. More than one.
Compensated Spokes Model for Big Poor.
Well slavery has been gone for a hundred and fifty years.
What people have to live and deal with is the legacy of segregation and Jim Crow laws.
No one alive remembers slavery and maybe one one or two remember their parents as being slaves. A few ancient people may remember that their grandparents were slaves. My grandparents were serfs. Does the Republic of Italy owe me money?
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Have you heard Bernie's thoughts on this?
He talks more about institutional racism and poverty with the emphasis on poverty of blacks. His answer makes sense better than paying people money. No one knows how this would work. But ByeDone? Sheesh.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Yes
IMO there is no quicker way to lose white workingmen to Trump than to call for slavery reparations. In any case I predict the Supreme Court, at least THIS Supreme Court would rule it unconstitutional as an "attainder of the blood" to tax people now for what their distant ancestors did. Reparations made sense in 1869, perhaps even 1919, but not 2019.
Who said "politics is the art of the possible?"
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Understanding history always helps
"Reparations made sense in 1869, perhaps even 1919, but not 2019." Simple answer to a complex situation.
Well done is better than well said-Ben Franklin
Did you have a tweet or graphic here?
With your "Anyone Hear This?" post?
If so, I can't see anything displayed.
Same as your "No Words" entry.
Methinks both twitter has it in for me and is somehow blocking me for not having an account.
@Wally
I can see both tweets, and I don't have a twitter account. (And I don't intend to, either, because I don't want to get caught up in that zoo; no offense meant to actual zoo animals.)
I'm wondering if there's something in the twitter coding that's not interfacing properly with the operating system or the browser on your computer or device.
"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi
"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone
Thanks Centaurea
Maybe it has something to do with the recent long windows updates. I'll eventually get one of my computer literate adult kids to try to deal with it.
I fixed it - so much better now
There were many more embedded tweets I was missing.
It seems the windows updates changed the setting to show embedded tweets to off on my duckduckgo.
You need to watch the videos of the tweets I posted
anyone who doesn't watch them are missing out on what the point of the tweets were. However some people have problems watching videos because of the device they are using. I am on my Mac desktop with an old OS and I can't watch them. I watched every vid before posting and that is why I choose the tweets I did.
As to the Did anyone hear this I posted the tweet that came before that in my comment below it.
Really if you aren't watching them then you are missing out on how bad ByeDone did last night and what the others said that prompted me to post them. Especially the one on AOC.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
I fixed it snoopy
Somehow the windows updates that I got hit with this past week changed the twitter embed settings on my duckduckgo browser. I fixed it. Your posts display the tweets for me now. Thanks for the thread.
Boo!
Very disappointing, Bernie. Venezuela's election was much more fair than the one you participated in. BTW. I want him to explain why Madura is so bad and why he needs to go. Bernie knows that if Guaido is installed then Venezuela will be asset stripped just like every other country we have overthrown. Do Venezuelans have universal health care?
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Bernie should have done much better on Venezuela
I think it's partly his new foreign affairs advisor. I dunno.
The Univision guy's question cornered Bernie. I'm no fan of Maduro but less so of his Venezuelan opposition and US imperialism / corporate shock doctrine.
At least Bernie railed against interventionism, endless wars and the military industrial complex. He called for cuts to the military budget. And he noted the connection between migration and US economic, political, and military policies. So, I'd still have to say he was better on foreign policy than all the others and he really nailed Lyin' Biden on his Iraq vote.
It seemed to me that the lighting on both Biden and Bernie was particularly bright and harsh.
I got sick of the debate format with all the candidates raising their hands like they were asking their second grade teacher to go the lavatory.
And Bernie was really hoarse from giving endless speeches and thus sounded particularly mad which I imagine MSM will be making hay of today.
In the 15 minutes of the MSM/ABC News commentary I watched immediately after the debate, they seemed to focus on Castro's calling Biden out on Medicare and then covering for Biden, making a bad guy out of Castro (not Fidel or Raul in this case). I didn't notice any mention of Bernie whatsoever and not even that much of Warren.
What was the deal with the protest during Biden's closing remarks????
It's truly
pathétique that the only democratic socialist on the stage goes full neocon on Maduro stopping short only to say he would however be against military intervention. Gee, thanks for your democratic socialist take on democratically-elected foreign leaders of a democratic socialist bent. Very reassuring.
Not Bernie's finest moment.
As to the protesters, I thought it might have been some enthusiastic anti-Biden citizen activist from this board who snuck past security, but today I read it was pro-DACA folks, shouting something about ICE.
Full neocon would have been militarily interventionist
. . . towards the goal of regime change. Bernie specifically opposed that. Bernie also directly opposed sanctions and noted the history of problematic US intervention in other Latin American countries. I have no problem with freely negotiated internationally supervised elections (in the US too at this point) or opposing violence against peasceful protesters. That's all in the transcript above. Bernie went way too far in labeling Maduro but I suspect if he didn't, Univision and other Hispanic press would have in turn labeled and headlined Bernie as being pro-Venezuelan authoritarian or dictatorial socialism, etc. What's Warren's position on Venezuela? Go figure she wasn't asked about that.
That's the roblem with these so-called "debates"
Different candidates are asked different questions so they are not really debating.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
As my first preference
Bernie is held to higher expectations. On Maduro and R-gate, he has been disappointing. I would have hoped for a stronger stance of skepticism pushing back against the MIC/MSM standard script. Something tough but truthful like "This sort of constant media drumbeat against a given foreign leader is what has led in the recent past to a shaping of public opinion to make it easier for our gov't to engage in régime change. This is a well-known pattern by now, and it has to stop. And last I checked, the Carter Center on Election Integrity which monitored the election a few yrs ago, stated that Maduro was elected fairly. The people of VZ spoke, and they wanted Maduro. Perhaps we should spend more time concerning ourselves with our own serious set of election integrity issues here at home."
Dunno what Liz* said or has said on VZ but suspect it's roughly in line with Bernie's comments. The most skeptical and bold candidate on FP, the only one often showing courage in going against the grain, was shut out of this debate as you know.
*I've focused a lot on EW lately in these pages, but mainly to offer a lone-nut different perspective on her and to suggest she is likely at the top of Bernie's VP list, so Bernieites be prepared, and to suggest she isn't the secret sneaky center-right Hillaryesque front woman for the political-economic establishment that some here think. And on accounta I likely have some inner defense attorney inside which needs occasional exercising.
This is Carter re. Venezuela
-- from the Center's website wherein other criticisms are made, too.
Oh ok, skip
the part of Bernie hypothetically citing the Carter Center. Just go to the country's own Council of Nat'l Elections where opposition groups are counted among the members and the regional Ceela elections body which has been recognized as valid in the past, both of which observed the election and found it fair.
The quote was from Jimmy Carter not Bernie
No hypothetically.
Understand.
Was just referring to my hypothetical above where I put a suggested better response into Bernie's mouth.
Btw, does the US allow outside int'l election observers to check on our presidential elections? Or is it just the OSCE, whose not entirely flattering conclusions go unheeded in this country.
No words
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
she's 3000 miles from AOC's district
but then voters don't look at these things critically.
Have you seen this?
Who Is Elizabeth Heng, the Woman Behind the Strange Ad Comparing AOC to the Khmer Rouge?
The ad was produced by New Faces GOP, Heng’s new PAC, which was created in March and touts itself as trying to bring younger voters and people of color into the Republican Party. Who is Heng, you might ask? She’s a former staffer for Rep. Ed Royce, worked on Donald Trump’s inaugural committee, and ran unsuccessfully in the 2018 election against Democratic incumbent Jim Costa in California’s 16th Congressional district. As a young, minority woman, and the daughter of refugees, running as a Trump supporter, Heng attracted some national media attention during the midterms, with the Wall Street Journal even suggesting she could be “an Ocasio-Cortez for the GOP.” There was also some controversy when Facebook blocked one of her campaign ads, which told her parents’ story, because it featured graphic imagery of the Cambodian genocide.
In 2018, Heng ran as a relative moderate, focusing on issues like clean water, education, and supporting a legislative solution to give legal status to young immigrants covered under DACA.
But comparing AOC’s politics, which would be considered center left in many other Western countries, to a genocidal totalitarian regime that killed as many as 2 million people, is not moderate. It’s ludicrous and reprehensible. Perhaps Heng should ask the president she supports why he is so quick to defend the leader of an actual totalitarian, Communist regime.
The Daily Beast reports that “New Faces GOP appears to be purely a Heng-related venture,” with many of its funders and staffers carried over from her congressional campaign. After the ad aired, the GOP’s AOC carried on a brief feud with the original AOC on Twitter:
I agree with this!
Ooh...socialism bad!
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
But they wouldn't run a Freedom From Religion ad
" In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry, and is generally considered to have been a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy "
I saw Ron Jr. speak at an FFRF convention...
Good speaker... funny man. Bought my "Unabashed Atheist-Not Afraid of Burning in Hell" T-shirt.
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
Harris had two answers to just about everything .
Obama very good and Trump very bad. This is the woman the dnc put their money on? Good gawd
All I want is the truth. Just give me some truth. John Lennon
I was observing it in a bar.
Nobody was paying any attention.
I couldn't read the closed captions.
Biden was very animated.
Warren was very animated.
Then the NWS mercifully interrupted to warn us that a great motherfuck of a storm was imminent, so I left and scurried home, not wanting to be caught on the roads in a deluge.
The lightning has been something else, I must say.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
Word!
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
As I recall he actively FOUGHT single payer
Saying he didn't even want a test vote.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Observations (sort of)
Watched the whole thing. Played a drinking game so I'm kinda lit.
My roommate (a political muggle) and I watched the whole thing. She respected Mayor Pete's polished nature. Her words, not mine. But that McKinsey worked on her. She liked Booker until he spoke for more than 45 seconds. She thought Yang was "sneaky" and gimmicky. Beto bored her because according to her he said a lot without saying a lot.
She hated Biden. Like really, really hated him. She was wondering about his mental faculties. That Castro blast was awesome.
She did not like any of the women. She said Warren sounded too out of breath and emotional and very meandering. Harris sounded fake as hell (she laughed when i told her about the whole hashtag KamalaIsACop thing).
She basically said Bernie was the only one who sounded strong enough to take on Trump.
Okay, to bed. I'm lit. Gonna be late for work tomorrow.
Thanks for the first hand account of the debate
I just followed it on Twitter and see I didn't miss much. These two tweets sum up my thoughts..
Lots of people are ripping Bernie for his Madura answer. Norton has a lot to say about it since he has spent lots of time in Venezuela.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
this reminds me of a joke a pharmacist told me
when I bought some meds. An elderly lady asked him if he also has heard that she has dementia. He answered: 'no'. The lady then murmured: 'imagine I am the only one who didn|t know that. Now at least there are two of us". Sigh. Thanks.
https://www.euronews.com/live
My debate summary: mess
What an embarrassment. How in the world is one of them going to defeat the GOP machine?
Did someone forget to prepare Joe Biden for this debate? I think his people didn't even tell him there was a debate tonight until five minutes before make-up and hair time.
Two Faces Warren and her "access" bullshit. I wonder if she is telling her big donors that their cash gives them the right to access special privileges and not actual special privileges!
Bernie's comments on Venezuela were disappointing, and I am giving him the side-eye. However, as a non-American, I find it pretty standard American policy, to diss a foreign leader just cuz reasons.
The rest of them... LOL. I am now expecting that Beto O'WhoCares will moon the audience to get some attention, and Andrew Yang presented like a total moron. Mayor Pete did a good job repeating out-of-context talking points, so not a loss for him, I guess.
Finally, special mention for Kamala Harris. I actually felt a pang of something for her. She was supposed to ascend as the Chosen One, anointed, with a chorus of angels singing her praises. Meanwhile, here she is, a second-tier candidate, making very little national progress, and not enough of a sure thing to the point that fucking Joe Biden is thrown into the ring. Ouch!
lol great summary
As for feeling bad for Harris, I would if she hadn't been such a vindictive DA and attorney general. I agree that she was supposed to be the chosen candidate in case ByeDone fell and Warren is really in it to make sure Bernie doesn't win.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Harris almost always looks to me like she is
about to go home and punch through a wall in anger. Entitlement to elected office is more passé than the Establishment thought, eh?
Just like Hillary.
she’s never run a real race. It’s the old “started on second base and thought she’d hit a double.” And it’s not even like she’s being pushed that hard. It’s just that she didn’t expect to be pushed at all.
Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.
I'm not sure that's a fair characterization of HRC.
She was born on first base, but worked her ass off to get to the third.
At which point, she seemed to think she was entitled to walk home, suggesting a failure to understand certain fundamentals of the game.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
I swear
I heard Byedone refer to Bernie as President. It was a gaffe I'm sure.
Anybody else hear that?
Bernie's voice was irritating but he did well, except for handing Venezuela over to the deep state.
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
Yes you did
I pointed this out in one of the tweets above. He also went to say something about Warren in the same tweet, but called her the senator on my left. But this really sums up what ByeDone is doing..
It's beyond ridiculous that he is even running.. first off he has run 3 times before and never made it out of Iowa. Warren or Kambama are much better than he is, but the Dems wants to push him on us.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Looks like he did it twice
"My friend Vermont"
This is more obvious..lmao the look on Bernie's face priceless! Watch it more than once. ByeDone keeps telling us how unions don't want to give up their health care plans because they fought so hard for them. Here he is saying that if they don't have to buy insurance through their employers that they won't get paid more. This seems like a no brainer for me. You?
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
As a lifelong union worker
with "Cadillac" insurance, I had to settle for less hourly wage so the employer would contribute to my pension and health plan.
It was negotiated every three years. When our contract was up we asked for a raise to compensate for inflation.
For instance, we would ask for $1.50 over three years, fifty cents each year. We would then break it up between hourly wage rate (say 30 cents), pension plan (10cents), and health plan (10cents).
Employer would match our pension and health contributions, per negotiated contract.
Still, I had to switch to Medicare as my primary insurance when I became eligible.
Not complaining, as my union plan still provides dental, eye care, and substance abuse benefits.
If we went to MFA, we and our employer would stop contributing to the health plan (insurance companies) entirely and use the savings to pay for the increase in our Medicare deduction that come out of our paycheck.
Just before I retired over 10k came out of my paycheck to pay for my health insurance.
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
That was the point I turned it off
I’ve done payroll for a small company and changing either the benefits provider or the tax laws has no effect on how workers get paid, either salary or hourly.
All that would change are the deductions. Workers would get less deducted and the employer contribution would drop. ByeDone’s insinuation was really that the drop in the employer portion would not get passed on. Well duh! But improving pay equity is an independent problem. An important one but basically irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
Exactly
Unions who have decent health care plans had to give up more in wages. Why ByeDone doesn't understand that shows how much he doesn't understand what workers are going through and have had to give up since their days of power when ByeDone was just a wee pup in congress. Democrats used to stand behind the unions, but now they stand in front of them, and the union leaders have sold out their members. Especially the teacher's union president. Randi???? She threw striking teachers under the bus.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
CNN declare the winner of tonight's debate
Link
WINNERS
Joe Biden:
Beto O'Rourke:
Barack Obama:
Kamala Harris' opening statement:
LOSERS
Julián Castro:
Andrew Yang:
Elizabeth Warren:
The economy:
Read for yourself what Chris has to say about Bernie....
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Nothing featured about Bernie that I've found yet
... and no great shakes about, but rather criticism of, Warren.
David Sirota in "The Bern Notice" has been calling the media cold shoulder towards Bernie "The Bernie Write Off."
It'll be interesting to see what he has to say there today about the debate.
Nope not a damn thing about Bernie from CNN
that was the point I was trying to make when I said go read it. This is blatant election kerfuffling, but it shows just how much they don't want him to win.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Here's what
I saw from the portions I saw live and 15 min of post-game chatter:
Bernie: It was not a good omen when he showed up with a raspy voice. Not a good thing to see in a 77 yo guy running for prez. He seemed irritable throughout the night. His opponent is Biden, and he failed to score any major blows against him. Did the mods bother to ask him about his huge plan on climate change? If not, should he not have been more assertive in pointing this out and making his case on that issue? Overall, disappointing performance, an opportunity lost to chip away at Joe's wide but soft support.
Biden: Had to shut off the MSM/CNN post-game propaganda fest for Joe as most of the panel marched in lockstep to proclaim Joe the Winner. The alleged political experts continue to avoid the issue of obvious mental decline while allowing only that he was stronger in the first hour rather than the second. Fredo Cuomo really lit into Julian Castro in an interview for JC going beyond the pale in being too tough and "vulgar" on the much older Joe, a sign of disrespectful ageism said the host. I suspect this is going to be the overall MSM theme coming out of this debate -- that Biden was better in this one than previous debates, and emerges as the clear front runner. The MSM, for the moment, are still protecting Joe.
Warren: A winner mainly b/c she wasn't on the receiving end of much incoming, showed up looking and sounding healthy and not old, and didn't make any blunders.
Klobuchar: Seemed to get a disproportionate amount of talking time, especially for a 1%er. ABC appeared to be trying hard to boost her centrist profile and make her a major contender. Noticed that two cable channels were interviewing her quickly after the debate.
Castro: Now officially on the hit list of the MSM for daring to go after Joe Biden. in ways suggesting mental decline.
Beto: Should have been more forceful earlier and all along in the campaign on assault weapons.
Mod George Steponoffofus: Came off as a self-righteous know-it-all hack for ABC corporate. The usual MSM hack RW-tinged questions, e.g. on trade negotiations with China: Is the Chinese leader just waiting to get a Democrat in office who will be a pushover on trade?
Maduro: Should continue to beef up his personal security. Even Bernie joined in on the Maduro Two Minutes of Hate. And he's easily the leftiest person on the stage.
You missed Bernie going after Biden on . . .
. . . Medicare for All and his Iraq vote. I noted some criticisms of Bernie, too, that essentially align with yours. Not much that could be done with the hoarseness, though. I think people will be forgiving, though. At least he didn't keep collapsing like Hillary or find the equivalent of bubbles to be tripping on.
Warren did ok but as I noted above, no great shakes. Obviously, CNN didn't depict her as a winner. Indeed, they specifically cast her as "A Loser" along with Castro.
I couldn't care less about all the other driftwood on stage.
It's between Bernie, Biden and Warren.
But it was really difficult to endure the whole debate. I can't imagine anyone except political junkies watching more than a half hour of it. It started out brutal all around but Bernie finished really well, I thought.
"But it was really difficult to endure the whole debate."
I made extensive use of the mute button.
I feel your pain
I forgot to mention
Biden's jarringly odd, retro reference to record players and radios. The Biden response sequence was something like Education>Parents Need to Be Better Parents or Need Help>Turn Off the TeeVee and Turn On the Radio and Record Player. To his credit, he didn't say crank up the Gramophone.
Obvious unintentional laugh material for the post-game analysis, something which should have come up early in the discussion it was so peculiarly yesteryear, but I heard nothing about it in the MSM post-op. Just a rush to proclaim Joe da Man.
Will check out Sanders vs Joe on Iraq and M4A, but wonder if Bernie only dealt glancing light blows. He seems not to want to go too hard at his obvious opponent, but if he doesn't get tougher and take him on more forcefully, his polite Dukakising will end up ceding the nomination to a guy who is barely coherent on a good night and is likely to be badly embarrassed by Trump in the debates.
Agree about the length of these debates, but ABC ended them 15 minutes early. Not many folks likely stayed beyond 90 min. At that point I was getting sick of hearing so much from the fourth tier candidates. In any case, they are too wide-ranging and unfocused flitting from issue to issue, with FP as usual getting barely any attention.
It's tiresomely predictable too the way the MSM trots out their POC moderators to ask questions only in their particular IdPol category. Sometimes, but for that one horrendous question in 1988, I miss head moderator Bernard Shaw who was allowed to venture beyond the color of his skin. Whatever happened to him? Put out to pasture at age 50?
@wokkamile Vinyl is set to
Vinyl is set to outpace CD's this year for the first time since Old Joe was (who fucking knows how young Joe was then?).
The old demented geezer is just clueless as to how right he might have been. Play that Mozart to your children -- increase their IQ -- (bullshit debunked myth). But whatever.
I didn't watch the debates because I can't stand them, but the comments about them I have read seem to indicate these debates have set a new low bar.
Most succinct and on point summary
Ack! I can't make the tweet stop playing!!
It's stuck on a loop. Good gawd.
At first I thought it stopped when I hit the reply button, but nope.
Will try leaving the essay, and if that doesn't work, I'm logging off. Ack!
Edit: It finally stopped when I hit the preview button prior to posting this comment. Whew!
I loved the part where Biden said that no one should go
to prison for a non-violent crime. Yippee says corporate America!
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
My TV set survived.
The only reason it survived is because I did not watch this "debate." From the reports I'm reading, at least one large object would have passed through it and I'd be out shopping for a replacement today.
What I have learned:
1) Mr. Trump doubtless got a very good night's sleep. No worries for him.
2) The people of Venezuela most certainly did not get a good night's rest.
What was that Truman said about what people will do, given the choice between a Democrat acting like a Republican and the real deal?
ABC's Kabuki Theater
They should've just gone with the dancing girls and popcorn.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
We have to keep posting this
as often as necessary, and it seems it will be necessary for some time:
@Linda Wood And Thom ran away with
And Thom ran away with Killary before the primaries were even over.
Yup, mine survived too.
I could not watch it and don't even have any desire to watch any of this anymore. Why feed the anger and disgust anymore than I have to? I read about this mess every day, that is more than enough for me. I've recently moved and am a bit more cognizant of new neighbors and while they aren't terribly close in physical proximity, why take the chance one of them would hear the screaming and cussing? It's early yet in my new neighborhood and I'm trying to give off a nice first impression. We'll see how long that lasts, heh.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
This is America.
Play me another broken record Joe. Maybe then I'll learn why we pay twice as much for healthcare as anybody else in the world.
When Beto O'Rourke speaks English, he tries to sound like Abraham Lincoln speaking Spanish.
Harris was the sad, middle aged diva at the end of the bar who has a couple martinis in her and is starting to get a little randy. With all the cheap, attention getting one liners, I kept waiting for her to blurt out, "Who do I have to blow to get a vote around here?"
Ever since second grade, Lizzie Warren has known what she wanted to be - a public school teacher. So she did that for a year and then went to law school. Now she wants to be Bernie.
Andrew Yang wants to be a gameshow host. His parents wanted him to be a doctor.
Julian Castro wants to be the hispanic Barack Obama. His parents wanted him to be a cognitive therapist for the aged.
Cory Booker wants to be the black Gabby Johnson, dagnabit!
Mayor Pete wants to be the gay Mike Dukakis.
Amy Klobuchar wants everybody to keep their crappy health insurance.
Bernie wants a cough drop.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Yours is the best analysis I've seen anywhere
!
I say this as one who refrains from watching any of the debates, including those of 2016, for the reasons described by other posters here, hoarseness from screaming, frightening my neighbors, destroying my television, throwing up, and so forth. In other words, health and safety reasons.
But your analysis has the clear ring of truth. Peace! And thank you for having the courage to watch the show and keep your wits about you.
Cheers.
I know a lot of people hate these things, but I actually get a big kick out of them.
Absurdist comedy at its finest.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Love this...
Stealing this..
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Feel free...
Made a few too many edits this AM, but I think I'm done tinkering.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
as ms heng has explained to us, the price for universal
healthcare would be The Killing Fields.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
My favorite part of that ad...
is the smug rich girl look when she says 'I'm a Republican'.
This after treating us all to a free ludovico treatment of torches and skulls and then confidently telling us how not outrageous she is.
I dunno though. The psychotic debutante obsessed with mass murder might play well in Westchester. Not sure how well it'll go over with voters in Queens and The Bronx.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
You should put this in your stand-up routine.
LOL
who's this Matthew Yglesias?
just read a thing on Vox where he explained that Joe's rambling was actually not bad and that many excellent substantive things were contained therein.
I counted 11 uses of the word "but", like oh yeah he was incoherent but...
And anyone who wasn't a Biden supporter who points out that Biden is incoherent should be ignored because they're already against him.
He's another flunky of rich folk --
who gets a huge megaphone for his acts of obedience. One thinks of Howard Cosell or Stephen A. Smith in sports, or something like that.
“The loyal Left cannot act decisively. Their devotion to the system is a built-in kill switch limiting dissent.” - Richard Moser
Howard Cosell's Acts of Obedience?
Like what?
There are three things that come quickly to mind when I try to recall . . .
1. He was very supportive of Muhammed Ali when he became a Black Muslim and when he went to jail for draft resistence. Oh yea, and Cosell later denounced boxing.
2. He was supportive of the Black athletes who gave the Black Power salute at the 1968 Olympics medal ceremonies in Mexico City in 1968. And he regularly took shots at the KKK (he was Jewish).
3. He announced John Lennon's assassination and discussed it during his broadcast of an NFL football game.
I also recall that Dick Young, who was a right wing sportswriter for the Daily News in NYC, hated his guts.
I didn't see the debates either.
So how many people have to die before they get proactive on climate change? One billion? Two billion?
“The loyal Left cannot act decisively. Their devotion to the system is a built-in kill switch limiting dissent.” - Richard Moser
unless it's the RIGHT one billion, nary an eye will blink.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.