The international Nationalist Movements, 4 Chan and 8 Chan

Submitted by mimi on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 1:25am

I just wanted to point you to this discussion between The RealNews network's Mark Steiner and BBC's Mike Wendling about 4 Chan and 8 Chan.

As I never understood any of that, I found this quite informative. Here is the video and it was very necessary for me to have the transcript of it, which you find at the RealNews site.

[video:https://youtu.be/wBIpa3tLnlA]
4Chan's and 8Chan's Internet-Brewed Racism Informs Trump's Rhetoric

I seem not to be able to post or excerpt from the transcript from the site.

All of it I never understood. Still I don't understand most of it. Will have to read the transcript several times.

Please feel free to educate me on it.

Tags:

4Chan 8Chan

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Comments

Submitted by mimi on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 1:33am

I will be out for the next 8 hours or more

and come back only in the afternoon evening hours over here, which would be your midday (EST) hours.

—

https://www.euronews.com/live

Submitted by lotlizard on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 3:32am

One takeaway: 4chan and 8chan are just uncensored infrastructure

All they do is provide an uncensored channel giving anyone the chance, however temporary and fleeting, to reach a mass audience.

So mainstream journalists who call 4chan or 8chan themselves far-right are ignorant or lying. Of course their employers, the establishment media who are opinion gatekeepers for the 1%, have an interest in riling up the public in order to try to get this uncensored competition shut down.

Another takeaway: I don’t see how we push back against the populist Right if we can’t be honest about the fact that, whatever we want to call it, some kind of population dilution or replacement is indeed both trend and policy. What else does it mean to boast that “demographics is on Democrats’ side” or “soon enough, the U.S. / Netherlands / France / Germany will be minority-majority anyway”?

The Great Replacement idea as expounded within the right-wing populist subculture:

http://www.great-replacement.com/

The Great Replacement is very simple. You have one people, and in the space of a generation, you have a different people.
— Renaud Camus

The Right is in denial about climate: negative consequences of abrupt change in the makeup of the atmosphere (CO₂). The Left is in denial about demographics: negative consequences of abrupt change in the makeup of the population (mass migration).

Submitted by hecate on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 12:55pm

as

@lotlizard
Rainer Baubock has correctly observed, “the great replacement” is simply the reemergence of the Nazi umvolkung bedwetting. Camus masks that by refraining from screaming about Jews; however, those out there organ-grinding the howl that there is “some kind of population dilution or replacement [a]s indeed both trend and policy” almost always end up wailing about Hebrews; to wit, the endless unsanity about George Soros deliberately diverting rivers of melanin into the US and Europe in order to submerge all the white people. “The great replacement” is racist to the core, as it presupposes some difference or variation in human beings, when in fact there is none. A Nigerian in a shithole is the same as The Klansman.

As for 4chan and 8chan, they are part of the internet, and since on the internet the trolls always win—always, everywhere—there trolls predominate. Wanking pigboys on those sites carved out comfortable little nests for themselves, where they could devote themselves to their castrato concerns, which range from a woman looked at a video game, to a brown man came into a store. They have no lives, and they want to make sure none of the rest of us do, either.

Submitted by mimi on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 3:30pm

thanks, hecate,

@hecate

the great replacement” is simply the reemergence of the Nazi umvolkung bedwetting. Camus masks that by refraining from screaming about Jews; however, those out there organ-grinding the howl that there is “some kind of population dilution or replacement [a]s indeed both trend and policy” almost always end up wailing about Hebrews; to wit, the endless unsanity about George Soros deliberately diverting rivers of melanin into the US and Europe in order to submerge all the white people. “The great replacement” is racist to the core, as it presupposes some difference or variation in human beings, when in fact there is none. A Nigerian in a shithole is the same as The Klansman.

As for 4chan and 8chan, they are part of the internet, and since on the internet the trolls always win—always, everywhere—there trolls predominate.

A little 'Schwank aus meinem Leben' (something that happened yesterday to me). I sit in a cab and the cabdriver happened to be from Kosovo. Aside from being a cab driver, he also happened to be some programmer/technology guru and he started to talk about how he worked for Acer and was supposed to go to Netherlands for them etc. etc. So he blah blahed about his life when he came to Germany as a refugee some twenty plus years ago. And started talking about all the conspiracies there are, among others, that the whole 9/11 was an insider job etc. and then he asked me if I have realized that not one Jew was killed during the attack and how come that was so? So, the jews must have done it. ok, my memories about the Kosovo war were almost nil, I just remembered that Chris Hedges was reporting from there during the war and even a Chris Hedges had some pretty strong traumata from that time. (if I recall all that correctly) In any case that guy was a programmer, coder, intelligent and imho dangerously nuts and extremely racist. Sometimes the real life trolls are worse than the ones on the tubes.

BTW, my son had the experience of being half a Cameroonian sitting with what certainly was a Klansman in a shithole in the Iraq war together. And from there you learn what you said, it makes no difference.

—

https://www.euronews.com/live

Submitted by lotlizard on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 11:03pm

Irony is, nationalists everywhere love the Hebrews now because

@hecate
Israel, Netanyahu, and the parties even further to the Right than Likud are showing the world how it’s done — i.e., how a heavily militarized society based on a “blood and soil” ideology of (re-)conquest of ancient lands with strong identitarian and religious underpinnings can win the day, sweeping all enemies before it.

Such a society is allowed to assert prerogatives (having nukes outside any treaty framework; bombing neighbors whenever it feels like it) granted to no one else.

Not supporting racism again Palestinians and not supporting Israel’s definition of itself as a state for Jews and only for Jews, are now being declared everywhere to be anti-Semitic.

Submitted by mimi on Sat, 08/10/2019 - 1:33am

Why is it that all of the sudden

@lotlizard
people name Jews as being Hebrew or Israelites?

—

https://www.euronews.com/live

Submitted by lotlizard on Sat, 08/10/2019 - 1:55am

You’d have to ask hecate, whose nonce usage I was adopting

@mimi
If I have not misunderstood, hecate himself identifies as Jewish.

Submitted by hecate on Sat, 08/10/2019 - 10:08am

i

@lotlizard
think you've misunderstood. So far as I know, I'm not Jewish, though I've been tempted occasionally to claim to be so, so as to troll those whose skin crawls at the thought of a Jew. But I don't know that I've actually done that. I do, however, from time to time, "identify" as Jewish, just as I identify with other peoples recurrently subjected to nasty, filthy, slimy, vicious, violent, tsunamis of lies.

Submitted by hecate on Sat, 08/10/2019 - 9:55am

ah

@lotlizard
jeez, not this pounded into the ground pulverized dead horse:

Not supporting racism again [sic] Palestinians and not supporting Israel’s definition of itself as a state for Jews and only for Jews, are now being declared everywhere to be anti-Semitic.

That's as moldy baloney as the derelict on the waters of reason flatlining that it was “economic anxiety” that caused people to cast votes for The Klansman, bedwet into Brexit.

Truth is, all of the Nazis—AfD, National Front, Vrijheid, Fidesz, the Faragists, Lega Nord, the Duginsteins, the people of The Klansman, etc., et al—suffer from similar strains of the umvolkung brain syphilis: insidious nefarious Hebrews are cat’s-pawing caravanning armies of melanins into the vaterlands, there to dilute the precious bodily fluids of the volk.

Submitted by lotlizard on Sat, 08/10/2019 - 9:58pm

Nah. One only has to follow the discussion of BDS in Germany

@hecate
to see what I’m talking about.

In a way, you tacitly confirm my point when you give Israel’s nationalist, expansionist settler-driven government a pass by omitting it from your list of abhorrent right-wing movements.

Submitted by hecate on Sun, 08/11/2019 - 11:38am

since

@lotlizard
the Israelis do not subscribe to the umvolkung in which insidious nefarious Hebrews are cat’s-pawing caravanning armies of melanins into the vaterlands there to dilute the precious bodily fluids of the volk, they would only be seen to be on that list by those suffering from Jew blindness.

The Israelis have their own problem, like the Chinese in Xinjiang and Tibet.

Submitted by lotlizard on Sun, 08/11/2019 - 1:05pm

Israel and supporters do, however, talk about the Umvolkung

@hecate
(even if they don’t use that word) that would result if, through differential birth rates, or one-state solution or right-of-return, the Arab proportion of the population would start to edge out the Jewish part.

Seriously, no country’s leadership talks so openly about a demographic threat to its existence as Israel.

Submitted by MrWebster on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 4:26pm

Thanks for the summary.

@lotlizard Never much paid attention, but your summary seems right on:

One takeaway: 4chan and 8chan are just uncensored infrastructure
All they do is provide an uncensored channel giving anyone the chance, however temporary and fleeting, to reach a mass audience.

So mainstream journalists who call 4chan or 8chan themselves far-right are ignorant or lying. Of course their employers, the establishment media who are opinion gatekeepers for the 1%, have an interest in riling up the public in order to try to get this uncensored competition shut down.

It seems for awhile, youtube may have been relatively open, but that ended when the major media went after it (taking that ad revenue away) forcing youtube to dictates of power and advertisers. Twitter looks to have gone the same route--at one time they offered RT special rates during the election. No problema.

Submitted by eyo on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 6:20am

TL;DNR too long, did not read

Just kidding, I did read the transcript but did not watch the movie. Save time, jump to the end:

there are a whole bunch of nationalist movements and far-right movements around the globe. They’re increasingly coming together.

and... ? ~crickets~ Buy the book? okie dokie

--- soap box on
If I was the joining type, I'd be a card carrying member of the ACLU. Even without the card I am on the front lines defending your right to say whatever you want in public, especially online. Right up until you shout FIRE in the crowded theater, 'cause that's against the law. DUH Bannon has scripted Trump 2.0 to incite violence, sheep herding the other wing of duopoly. Der leader has cranked it to eleventy for his base, since the mid-terms he is in the "election mode". pew! pew! pew! And the toothless impotent D-Values opposition lets him, because silly season drains money from citizens in every class equally.

I watched the "Border Wars" film produced by Steve Bannon during ~~Hoover's~~ Obama's administration, and I've studied his BioDome experiments. It looks to me like they are following the Bannon playbook, that's all. He went to Europe to stir up stuff after Trump said "you're fired!"... and? It's all good and legal, game on. baaah!

Also I guess by most reactions, their evil re-election campaign is working. Violence is a fascist tool, non-violent direct action has always been the answer. NVDA not violent suppression. Actors gotta act. left right center

Lastly but not leastly this quote, notice the order of "fueled by"?

These ideas, and given it’s fueled by social media, it’s fueled by sites like 8chan and 4chan, it’s easy for these ideas to spread.

omg wtf Who's next?

My advice is: If you don't like the speech, debate it. If you can't debate it (like on public/private AmaTwitGooFace, ignore it and it will go away. If someone shouts FIRE! in a crowded theater a la Trump, arrest them. That's the law under what used to be the constitution, that "piece of paper" on which The Supremes decide the u.s. people's fate. Never ever ever stifle speech, that is the most nazi thing to do in my view. Bush, Obama, Trump. same same same Who upholds the law? NOBODY Dismantle the modern Stasi, then let's talk. heh

P.S. Berkeley ain't what it used to be, the pwnership has changed. Meet the new boss, etc..

dump duopoly
PEACE

edit: some useless apostrophes

Submitted by mimi on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 10:34am

I would be in support of all you say, if ...

@eyo
there was no anonymity among those who talk about whatever on the internet. Anonymity is the cowardly part of the internet. Folks scream FIRE on the internet all the time, but nobody knows who it is. What does that lead to in your opinion.

PS I messed up my laptop and the languages are all screwed up. So, forgive me, it makes typing a nuisance. Not my day.

Just kidding, I did read the transcript but did not watch the movie. Save time, jump to the end: there are a whole bunch of nationalist movements and far-right movements around the globe. They’re increasingly coming together. and... ? ~crickets~ Buy the book? okie dokie --- soap box on If I was the joining type, I'd be a card carrying member of the ACLU. Even without the card I am on the front lines defending your right to say whatever you want in public, especially online. Right up until you shout FIRE in the crowded theater, 'cause that's against the law. DUH Bannon has scripted Trump 2.0 to incite violence, sheep herding the other wing of duopoly. Der leader has cranked it to eleventy for his base, since the mid-terms he is in the "election mode". pew! pew! pew! And the toothless impotent D-Values opposition lets him, because silly season drains money from citizens in every class equally. I watched the "Border Wars" film produced by Steve Bannon during ~~Hoover's~~ Obama's administration, and I've studied his BioDome experiments. It looks to me like they are following the Bannon playbook, that's all. He went to Europe to stir up stuff after Trump said "you're fired!"... and? It's all good and legal, game on. baaah! Also I guess by most reactions, their evil re-election campaign is working. Violence is a fascist tool, non-violent direct action has always been the answer. NVDA not violent suppression. Actors gotta act. left right center Lastly but not leastly this quote, notice the order of "fueled by"? These ideas, and given it’s fueled by social media, it’s fueled by sites like 8chan and 4chan, it’s easy for these ideas to spread. omg wtf Who's next? My advice is: If you don't like the speech, debate it. If you can't debate it (like on public/private AmaTwitGooFace, ignore it and it will go away. If someone shouts FIRE! in a crowded theater a la Trump, arrest them. That's the law under what used to be the constitution, that "piece of paper" on which The Supremes decide the u.s. people's fate. Never ever ever stifle speech, that is the most nazi thing to do in my view. Bush, Obama, Trump. same same same Who upholds the law? NOBODY Dismantle the modern Stasi, then let's talk. heh P.S. Berkeley ain't what it used to be, the pwnership has changed. Meet the new boss, etc.. dump duopoly PEACE edit: some useless apostrophes

—

https://www.euronews.com/live

Submitted by eyo on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 12:24pm

The Internets are not a crowded theater, they are tubes

@mimi thanks, you made this fall out the lint trap:

Series of Tubes Music Video
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cZC67wXUTs width:450]

But seriously comrade, I have been a card carrying member of the Free Software Foundation since 2003. #1532 I wanted to signal this place when Stallman spoke about freedom in Berlin on July 15th but figured nobody cared. Then lotlizard linked to his blog so... blame it on the trees. lol

Facebook is surveillance monster feeding on our personal data - Richard Stallman
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c3sv30w158 width:450]

I'll never be as pure as Stallman but I'm gonna keep doing and speaking as if we are free. The only way to stop violence is to stop being violent, that is the utopia I had hoped for, where sharing is not a crime and stuff. Now I have to go back outside, the weather is weird. I really appreciate your essay topics, and the comments they provoke. thoughtful

PEACE

Submitted by mimi on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 2:45pm

Why did you think nobody would care about Richard Stallman?

@eyo
I have tried to answer now for three times, but I messed up my puter.
Lord help me.
1. I detected the world wide web in 1994 while working for the German Press Agency in DC.
2. I wanted to play with it and have my own web site.
3. I heard about the Free Software Foundation.
4. I got my first computer on which Linux was installed. I got my own server with it (with a fixed IP address back then).
5. I went to my favorite computer store in Rockville, Micro Center. There were huge pictures of Richard Stallman, Berners-Lee, Vincent Cerf and Bob Kahn hanging on the walls. So I started out with Linux and joined some Linux user groups for a couple of months to a year. I never used Microsoft software in the beginning.

But all the efforts to learn Linux shell scripting and building my own website (pretty large I would say at least for me back then) etc ended abruptly, when my own website with the first ever coded free shopping software, turned out to be unsustainable, due to darling Jeff Bezos. From that time on I never ever wanted to have something to do with programming or coding anymore and be left alone.

And I turned just into a regular human being working and assisting journalists. I watched the news for my superiors. Forgot anything else. When lotlizard mentioned Stallman here, I thought to myself, what happened to that guy? So, just don't assume anything about dummies who fall into the lint trap, sometimes they happen to have strange lifes and even know Richard Stallman from somewhere in the past.

But seriously comrade, I have been a card carrying member of the Free Software Foundation since 2003. #1532 I wanted to signal this place when Stallman spoke about freedom in Berlin on July 15th but figured nobody cared. Then lotlizard linked to his blog so... blame it on the trees. lol

Did he speak there this year on July 15? I would have loved to learn about it. So by now I have scanned his personal website and the Wiki...

Actually I am so pissed with Microsoft Windows I plan for some time to get myself a Linux Ubuntu or whatever else computer again. Go back 23 years and start all over. Though I am more interested in gardening and reading my many books and stop reading news on the tubes. Lord help me. My life has been and will be a sad, stupid, horrible mess. Time to go. I will pass by at the Computer Chaos Club in Hamburg. Relearn a bit.

Peace, Kameradin, heh, Nothing for Ungood.

—

https://www.euronews.com/live

Submitted by thanatokephaloides on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 4:26pm

Linux

@mimi

Actually I am so pissed with Microsoft Windows I plan for some time to get myself a Linux Ubuntu or whatever else computer again. Go back 23 years and start all over.

It won't be that hard. Linux has become a LOT more copascetic in that 23-year period.

And you can save considerable coin by installing Linux on a machine that Microsoft has abandoned, too. It's gotten to the point where you need to buy a new "box" every time a new full version of WinDoze is released. Emphatically NOT the case with Linux!

My favorite specific distribution, Ubuntu Studio, comes complete with the best multimedia goodies. And it's free.

#3.1.1
I have tried to answer now for three times, but I messed up my puter.
Lord help me.
1. I detected the world wide web in 1994 while working for the German Press Agency in DC.
2. I wanted to play with it and have my own web site.
3. I heard about the Free Software Foundation.
4. I got my first computer on which Linux was installed. I got my own server with it (with a fixed IP address back then).
5. I went to my favorite computer store in Rockville, Micro Center. There were huge pictures of Richard Stallman, Berners-Lee, Vincent Cerf and Bob Kahn hanging on the walls. So I started out with Linux and joined some Linux user groups for a couple of months to a year. I never used Microsoft software in the beginning.

But all the efforts to learn Linux shell scripting and building my own website (pretty large I would say at least for me back then) etc ended abruptly, when my own website with the first ever coded free shopping software, turned out to be unsustainable, due to darling Jeff Bezos. From that time on I never ever wanted to have something to do with programming or coding anymore and be left alone.

And I turned just into a regular human being working and assisting journalists. I watched the news for my superiors. Forgot anything else. When lotlizard mentioned Stallman here, I thought to myself, what happened to that guy? So, just don't assume anything about dummies who fall into the lint trap, sometimes they happen to have strange lifes and even know Richard Stallman from somewhere in the past.

But seriously comrade, I have been a card carrying member of the Free Software Foundation since 2003. #1532 I wanted to signal this place when Stallman spoke about freedom in Berlin on July 15th but figured nobody cared. Then lotlizard linked to his blog so... blame it on the trees. lol

Did he speak there this year on July 15? I would have loved to learn about it. So by now I have scanned his personal website and the Wiki...

Actually I am so pissed with Microsoft Windows I plan for some time to get myself a Linux Ubuntu or whatever else computer again. Go back 23 years and start all over. Though I am more interested in gardening and reading my many books and stop reading news on the tubes. Lord help me. My life has been and will be a sad, stupid, horrible mess. Time to go. I will pass by at the Computer Chaos Club in Hamburg. Relearn a bit.

Peace, Kameradin, heh, Nothing for Ungood.

—

"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Submitted by mimi on Sat, 08/10/2019 - 1:35am

bingo, in my shopping cart in the near future/nt

@thanatokephaloides

—

https://www.euronews.com/live

Submitted by TheOtherMaven on Sat, 08/10/2019 - 12:00pm

I knew Stallman before he was a Very Important Person

@mimi

back when he was just a budding Big Name Fan in science fiction circles. If anyone remembers an anecdote from the early '70s when someone was described as "a young Harlan Ellison" - that was Stallman.

Knew him only slightly, and I doubt he remembers me at all. (Well, possibly as "that girl with the autoharp").

#3.1.1
I have tried to answer now for three times, but I messed up my puter.
Lord help me.
1. I detected the world wide web in 1994 while working for the German Press Agency in DC.
2. I wanted to play with it and have my own web site.
3. I heard about the Free Software Foundation.
4. I got my first computer on which Linux was installed. I got my own server with it (with a fixed IP address back then).
5. I went to my favorite computer store in Rockville, Micro Center. There were huge pictures of Richard Stallman, Berners-Lee, Vincent Cerf and Bob Kahn hanging on the walls. So I started out with Linux and joined some Linux user groups for a couple of months to a year. I never used Microsoft software in the beginning.

But all the efforts to learn Linux shell scripting and building my own website (pretty large I would say at least for me back then) etc ended abruptly, when my own website with the first ever coded free shopping software, turned out to be unsustainable, due to darling Jeff Bezos. From that time on I never ever wanted to have something to do with programming or coding anymore and be left alone.

And I turned just into a regular human being working and assisting journalists. I watched the news for my superiors. Forgot anything else. When lotlizard mentioned Stallman here, I thought to myself, what happened to that guy? So, just don't assume anything about dummies who fall into the lint trap, sometimes they happen to have strange lifes and even know Richard Stallman from somewhere in the past.

But seriously comrade, I have been a card carrying member of the Free Software Foundation since 2003. #1532 I wanted to signal this place when Stallman spoke about freedom in Berlin on July 15th but figured nobody cared. Then lotlizard linked to his blog so... blame it on the trees. lol

Did he speak there this year on July 15? I would have loved to learn about it. So by now I have scanned his personal website and the Wiki...

Actually I am so pissed with Microsoft Windows I plan for some time to get myself a Linux Ubuntu or whatever else computer again. Go back 23 years and start all over. Though I am more interested in gardening and reading my many books and stop reading news on the tubes. Lord help me. My life has been and will be a sad, stupid, horrible mess. Time to go. I will pass by at the Computer Chaos Club in Hamburg. Relearn a bit.

Peace, Kameradin, heh, Nothing for Ungood.

—

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Submitted by UntimelyRippd on Sat, 08/10/2019 - 10:16pm

he is the geek's geek.

@TheOtherMaven @TheOtherMaven
i met him once, spent about an hour taking him on a walk before a talk he was giving.

i will note that it's a lot easier to be as pure as stallman when you can charge almost arbitrary amounts of money for your hourly services, but that's not to say he isn't sincere, as well as incomprehensibly brilliant. every time you hear about some second-rate computery guy who made a billion dollars doing something computery, and he's described as a genius, you should just laugh -- generally speaking, such individuals are unremarkable in their technical prowess. Stallman, on the other hand, is the real deal. He understands computer stuff that the billionaires could never touch. Gates wouldn't be able to have a serious technical conversation with Stallman about anything within RS's domain of expertise.

—

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Submitted by Deja on Sun, 08/11/2019 - 12:25pm

That interviewer pisses me off.

@eyo
She asks rambling questions (likes the sound of her own voice?), talks over him, she's even resting her chin in her palm sorta, and looking completely bored at one point. Yuck!

Dude sounds very cool, right on point. I also love the woodwork behind him which, of course, has nothing to do with what he's saying. Cash only, except for when you have to produce an ID, like flying, is but one of the things I took from his interview. I almost want to apologize to him for the snotty treatment he got, though.

Submitted by Cant Stop the M... on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 7:12pm

I'm totally with you, eyo.

@eyo

Beware the man who says he's gonna protect you from the people saying evil things.

Why do we need that protection?

Assuming that there is dangerous hate speech on 4chan and 8chan, assuming that stochastic terrorism works and that hate speech leads to hate crimes/assaults/abuses/murders--do we think that shutting down 4chan and 8chan will stop that from happening? Isn't it likely that they will relocate to some part of the dark web?

Let's assume for a moment that we do drive these nazi hatemongerers and white supremacists off the web. Do we think that they will stop spreading their hate, bigotry, and nazism? Isn't it more likely that they will continue to spread their ideas and values in other ways--like, for instance, through the right-wing churches they attend on Sunday, the right-wing police departments they work in and dominate, and right-wing radio?

Oh, I guess we're going to drive them off the radio too?

Didn't Nazis manage to spread their words and ideas quite easily without the internet up until the rise of the blogosphere in the early oughts? Isn't the spread of Nazism and white supremacy via the internet only about twenty years old? In other words, didn't they do just fine spreading their ideas without the internet? Then why do we think we can stop them by driving them off the internet, even if that were possible?

It's fair to say that the digital spread of information has something different about it, because of its speed and ability to create endless repetition, including, most importantly, by creating dozens or scores of false identities that can be run by one person. However, it does not follow that by destroying 4chan and 8chan we will be shutting down Nazism, hate speech, or racism. It doesn't even follow that we will be able to deal them a significant blow. They aren't like the independent left, which has no infrastructure to speak of outside the Web. Shut us down here, and most of us would be lost, with no clue how to find others of like mind. That's not true of the far right. They still get together in meatspace. They have organizations and even institutions that are still dominated by them. We have been driven out of most of ours, or marginalized within them--or forced to watch as those institutions have been twisted away from their original purpose. Journalism and universities used to be mostly ours, for instance, while churches and the military were mostly theirs. No more. We've been on the run for over a decade, distracted by the constant need to run out and work for the next Democratic campaign rather than taking on the difficult task of building our own infrastructure. Since we haven't, in most cases, even tried to reclaim or invent new ways for us to connect with one another and take cultural territory, all we have is the Net. That would be quite fine if the Net weren't riddled with a bunch of fascists--and I don't mean the ones who spread Nazi hate speech on 4chan. All other things being equal, we could deal with them. The reason we can't deal with them is that we have been put in a position of cultural weakness, much like the man who gets both legs broken in three places before a boxing match is in a position of physical weakness. And then, those who put us in that position, those who have been breaking our legs methodically for the last two or three decades, come and tell us that we're now in danger from Nazi bigots, and that we need their censors to protect us from them. Very much like someone who infects you with a disease and then shows up conveniently with the right medicine for sale.

Just kidding, I did read the transcript but did not watch the movie. Save time, jump to the end: there are a whole bunch of nationalist movements and far-right movements around the globe. They’re increasingly coming together. and... ? ~crickets~ Buy the book? okie dokie --- soap box on If I was the joining type, I'd be a card carrying member of the ACLU. Even without the card I am on the front lines defending your right to say whatever you want in public, especially online. Right up until you shout FIRE in the crowded theater, 'cause that's against the law. DUH Bannon has scripted Trump 2.0 to incite violence, sheep herding the other wing of duopoly. Der leader has cranked it to eleventy for his base, since the mid-terms he is in the "election mode". pew! pew! pew! And the toothless impotent D-Values opposition lets him, because silly season drains money from citizens in every class equally. I watched the "Border Wars" film produced by Steve Bannon during ~~Hoover's~~ Obama's administration, and I've studied his BioDome experiments. It looks to me like they are following the Bannon playbook, that's all. He went to Europe to stir up stuff after Trump said "you're fired!"... and? It's all good and legal, game on. baaah! Also I guess by most reactions, their evil re-election campaign is working. Violence is a fascist tool, non-violent direct action has always been the answer. NVDA not violent suppression. Actors gotta act. left right center Lastly but not leastly this quote, notice the order of "fueled by"? These ideas, and given it’s fueled by social media, it’s fueled by sites like 8chan and 4chan, it’s easy for these ideas to spread. omg wtf Who's next? My advice is: If you don't like the speech, debate it. If you can't debate it (like on public/private AmaTwitGooFace, ignore it and it will go away. If someone shouts FIRE! in a crowded theater a la Trump, arrest them. That's the law under what used to be the constitution, that "piece of paper" on which The Supremes decide the u.s. people's fate. Never ever ever stifle speech, that is the most nazi thing to do in my view. Bush, Obama, Trump. same same same Who upholds the law? NOBODY Dismantle the modern Stasi, then let's talk. heh P.S. Berkeley ain't what it used to be, the pwnership has changed. Meet the new boss, etc.. dump duopoly PEACE edit: some useless apostrophes

—

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Submitted by davidgmillsatty on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 10:54pm

@eyo So you get to decide when

@eyo So you get to decide when someone is shouting FIRE? Because if you get to decide it for yourself, everybody else gets to decide it for himself or herself.

Just kidding, I did read the transcript but did not watch the movie. Save time, jump to the end: there are a whole bunch of nationalist movements and far-right movements around the globe. They’re increasingly coming together. and... ? ~crickets~ Buy the book? okie dokie --- soap box on If I was the joining type, I'd be a card carrying member of the ACLU. Even without the card I am on the front lines defending your right to say whatever you want in public, especially online. Right up until you shout FIRE in the crowded theater, 'cause that's against the law. DUH Bannon has scripted Trump 2.0 to incite violence, sheep herding the other wing of duopoly. Der leader has cranked it to eleventy for his base, since the mid-terms he is in the "election mode". pew! pew! pew! And the toothless impotent D-Values opposition lets him, because silly season drains money from citizens in every class equally. I watched the "Border Wars" film produced by Steve Bannon during ~~Hoover's~~ Obama's administration, and I've studied his BioDome experiments. It looks to me like they are following the Bannon playbook, that's all. He went to Europe to stir up stuff after Trump said "you're fired!"... and? It's all good and legal, game on. baaah! Also I guess by most reactions, their evil re-election campaign is working. Violence is a fascist tool, non-violent direct action has always been the answer. NVDA not violent suppression. Actors gotta act. left right center Lastly but not leastly this quote, notice the order of "fueled by"? These ideas, and given it’s fueled by social media, it’s fueled by sites like 8chan and 4chan, it’s easy for these ideas to spread. omg wtf Who's next? My advice is: If you don't like the speech, debate it. If you can't debate it (like on public/private AmaTwitGooFace, ignore it and it will go away. If someone shouts FIRE! in a crowded theater a la Trump, arrest them. That's the law under what used to be the constitution, that "piece of paper" on which The Supremes decide the u.s. people's fate. Never ever ever stifle speech, that is the most nazi thing to do in my view. Bush, Obama, Trump. same same same Who upholds the law? NOBODY Dismantle the modern Stasi, then let's talk. heh P.S. Berkeley ain't what it used to be, the pwnership has changed. Meet the new boss, etc.. dump duopoly PEACE edit: some useless apostrophes

Submitted by UntimelyRippd on Sat, 08/10/2019 - 10:39pm

people tend to lose track of the history of

@eyo
the crowded theater analogy. It was made by Oliver Wendell Holmes to justify locking people up (Schenk, specifically) for making anti-draft speeches after the US entered WWI, ie., it was made in support of the Espionage Act.

Brandenburg vs. Ohio later rolled it way, way back. Under B.v.O, Schenk would have won his appeal and been set free.

Just kidding, I did read the transcript but did not watch the movie. Save time, jump to the end: there are a whole bunch of nationalist movements and far-right movements around the globe. They’re increasingly coming together. and... ? ~crickets~ Buy the book? okie dokie --- soap box on If I was the joining type, I'd be a card carrying member of the ACLU. Even without the card I am on the front lines defending your right to say whatever you want in public, especially online. Right up until you shout FIRE in the crowded theater, 'cause that's against the law. DUH Bannon has scripted Trump 2.0 to incite violence, sheep herding the other wing of duopoly. Der leader has cranked it to eleventy for his base, since the mid-terms he is in the "election mode". pew! pew! pew! And the toothless impotent D-Values opposition lets him, because silly season drains money from citizens in every class equally. I watched the "Border Wars" film produced by Steve Bannon during ~~Hoover's~~ Obama's administration, and I've studied his BioDome experiments. It looks to me like they are following the Bannon playbook, that's all. He went to Europe to stir up stuff after Trump said "you're fired!"... and? It's all good and legal, game on. baaah! Also I guess by most reactions, their evil re-election campaign is working. Violence is a fascist tool, non-violent direct action has always been the answer. NVDA not violent suppression. Actors gotta act. left right center Lastly but not leastly this quote, notice the order of "fueled by"? These ideas, and given it’s fueled by social media, it’s fueled by sites like 8chan and 4chan, it’s easy for these ideas to spread. omg wtf Who's next? My advice is: If you don't like the speech, debate it. If you can't debate it (like on public/private AmaTwitGooFace, ignore it and it will go away. If someone shouts FIRE! in a crowded theater a la Trump, arrest them. That's the law under what used to be the constitution, that "piece of paper" on which The Supremes decide the u.s. people's fate. Never ever ever stifle speech, that is the most nazi thing to do in my view. Bush, Obama, Trump. same same same Who upholds the law? NOBODY Dismantle the modern Stasi, then let's talk. heh P.S. Berkeley ain't what it used to be, the pwnership has changed. Meet the new boss, etc.. dump duopoly PEACE edit: some useless apostrophes

—

Submitted by k9disc on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 9:18am

Well, the First 30 Seconds Are Not Promising...

It's not a RW message board any more than it is an anarchist's board. It's a place with "no rules" - civil society need not apply. It's an anonymous place to shit post and fuck with people. Not my thing, but it's NOT a RW terrorist site.

The framing of this piece so far makes me think this is the left flank of the Pogrom on Free Speech and freedom of assembly.

And there is another piece of Free Speech that is kind of new, I think, and that is the right to NOT believe something. Seems to me that the right to disagree with authority at this time is being turned into a crime.

Thought crimes of many variations are springing up along our path into the Brave New World.

I don't know if I can watch the rest of the piece, actually. Makes me sick to my stomach.

—

“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

Submitted by k9disc on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 10:04am

I Heard RW Nationalists Use Telephones and Twitter Too.

5:20 - He likened it to an "invasion" - have you ever heard such nonsense about immigration? I mean, where could ANYONE have gotten a CRAZY idea like that...

6:00 - Drumpf TWEET about Europe not taking immigration seriously, the kid says "natives didn't take the European migration seriously" - I mean, they both have EUROPEAN in them... (need some hinky eyebrow raise)
6:30 - TWEET for every immigrant that comes in Texas gains a citizen, we have 9 new ones today -
"the heavy Hispanic population in Texas will make it a Democratic Stronghold"

I tells you, it's plagiarism the exact same words, even... from Twitter.

This is one of the worst Real News segments I've ever seen. Did they get purchased or something?

6:37 - The synergy he's talking about is free speech and freedom of assembly. Representative tweets something out, people talk about it and say shit. Same thing happens with the news.

9:12 - Drumpf is pushing identity in his campaign. lol... OK, guess it must be an outbreak then. WTF.

This guy is sensible though, and I wonder if he's having second thoughts about how his piece is being used. He's walked back Steiner the whole interview. He better be careful, he's going to become the supporter of RW Terrorism.

9:45 - I think it would be more interesting to ask why RW Nationalism is ascendant throughout the Western World. Don't you? Because blaming this shit on Donnie Drumpf and the Chans is making us all more stupid.

And the Alt-Right doesn't have a monopoly on terror. Man, I can't believe I've got to defend those fuckers. But it has to be done, because if I don't agree that they're the devil then I become one of them, kind of like a Russian Troll.

10:10 - Last Update... Don't think I can watch anymore...
Once again the OP walks back Steiner and talks of the history of the RW Pat Buchanan, and a few RW luminaries keeping the torch lit... The reason is...

and I was out... No more.

I think the reason for RW Nationalism in the West is the lack of a legitimate Leftist critique of corporate sponsored public policy. If poor kids had healthCARE, education, and a single wage earner household, or at least someone fighting for it, we might have some hope that it might happen for us.

The meritocracy makes us claw each other's eyes out to get ahead, and there is no opposition to that human rat race, ideologically speaking. It's become pretty obvious that not many humans are going to "make it", and people are not cool with that.

The lack of a balanced political critique and a captured and tortured dictionary with debate rules that create more heat than light is the problem. There is no hope of any amelioration of the plight of the common man in the Democratic Party's loyal opposition, and there hasn't been since they became the Washington Generals in 1988. This is the best it's gonna get.

Their penchant to IdPol (yup, that's a verb) as an institution is not helping. Democrats wear minorities like accessories to their ensemble, and the pattern is more than evident to anyone who has a different opinion. How's Brother West's reputation within the Democratic Party?

So you've got an intolerant Authoritarian Political Leadership (You can't say that!) vs the Politics of Authoritarian Intolerance (fuck you, you can't stop me.)

And nobody of any significant consequence is blowing the whistle on this shit. This, combined with a cesspool of authoritarian intolerance and you're going to grow the Right.

The Chans & Drumpf are not the problem, they're the results of the problem.

@k9disc

mimi, if I find something good on the chans, I'll let you know. Of course, it probably won't happen. I doubt it's served up via the algorithm very often. Although YT can deliver a surprising slippery slope.

—

“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

Submitted by k9disc on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 10:32am

Just Thinking Aloud... Riffing a Bit...

So you've got an intolerant Authoritarian Political Leadership (You can't say that!) vs the Politics of Authoritarian Intolerance (fuck you, you can't stop me.)

Authoritarian Political Intolerance (You Can't Say That!) vs Politics of Authoritarian Intolerance (Fuck You, You Can't Stop Me).

It shows itself like this:

Political Intolerance

"Can you believe those people are saying those things?"
"OMG! It's hideous. They should be stopped. It's intolerant and mean."
You can't think that. People self censor and agree with the disagreeable. People fired and passed over because they didn't toe the political line. He deserved it, shouldn't be thinking like that.

When this is wielded by a political party we get weaponized envy in the form of a litany of -isms to enforce party discipline.

This carving up of demographics is the opposite of solidarity. Weaponizing envy creates a crabs in a bucket situation where we focus on taking rights and liberties away from the privileged, rather than adding and improving rights and liberties for all.

Authoritarian Intolerance

"Can you believe those people won't let you say XXX."
"OMG! It's ridiculous. They can fuck off. I'm gonna say what I want."
A man's home is his castle and these people are coming for my stuff. A good offense is the best defense. Growling and fences prevent fights.

When this is wielded by a party we get weaponized fear in the form of a litany of stereotypes to create party solidarity.

Ugly word, I know... hard to hear, but fighting an enemy as a tribe is a strong form of solidarity. It's probably why "they're winning" - Authoritarian Intolerance requires solidarity to protect the freedoms and liberties of the tribe.

@k9disc

5:20 - He likened it to an "invasion" - have you ever heard such nonsense about immigration? I mean, where could ANYONE have gotten a CRAZY idea like that...

6:00 - Drumpf TWEET about Europe not taking immigration seriously, the kid says "natives didn't take the European migration seriously" - I mean, they both have EUROPEAN in them... (need some hinky eyebrow raise)
6:30 - TWEET for every immigrant that comes in Texas gains a citizen, we have 9 new ones today -
"the heavy Hispanic population in Texas will make it a Democratic Stronghold"

I tells you, it's plagiarism the exact same words, even... from Twitter.

This is one of the worst Real News segments I've ever seen. Did they get purchased or something?

6:37 - The synergy he's talking about is free speech and freedom of assembly. Representative tweets something out, people talk about it and say shit. Same thing happens with the news.

9:12 - Drumpf is pushing identity in his campaign. lol... OK, guess it must be an outbreak then. WTF.

This guy is sensible though, and I wonder if he's having second thoughts about how his piece is being used. He's walked back Steiner the whole interview. He better be careful, he's going to become the supporter of RW Terrorism.

9:45 - I think it would be more interesting to ask why RW Nationalism is ascendant throughout the Western World. Don't you? Because blaming this shit on Donnie Drumpf and the Chans is making us all more stupid.

And the Alt-Right doesn't have a monopoly on terror. Man, I can't believe I've got to defend those fuckers. But it has to be done, because if I don't agree that they're the devil then I become one of them, kind of like a Russian Troll.

10:10 - Last Update... Don't think I can watch anymore...
Once again the OP walks back Steiner and talks of the history of the RW Pat Buchanan, and a few RW luminaries keeping the torch lit... The reason is...

and I was out... No more.

I think the reason for RW Nationalism in the West is the lack of a legitimate Leftist critique of corporate sponsored public policy. If poor kids had healthCARE, education, and a single wage earner household, or at least someone fighting for it, we might have some hope that it might happen for us.

The meritocracy makes us claw each other's eyes out to get ahead, and there is no opposition to that human rat race, ideologically speaking. It's become pretty obvious that not many humans are going to "make it", and people are not cool with that.

The lack of a balanced political critique and a captured and tortured dictionary with debate rules that create more heat than light is the problem. There is no hope of any amelioration of the plight of the common man in the Democratic Party's loyal opposition, and there hasn't been since they became the Washington Generals in 1988. This is the best it's gonna get.

Their penchant to IdPol (yup, that's a verb) as an institution is not helping. Democrats wear minorities like accessories to their ensemble, and the pattern is more than evident to anyone who has a different opinion. How's Brother West's reputation within the Democratic Party?

So you've got an intolerant Authoritarian Political Leadership (You can't say that!) vs the Politics of Authoritarian Intolerance (fuck you, you can't stop me.)

And nobody of any significant consequence is blowing the whistle on this shit. This, combined with a cesspool of authoritarian intolerance and you're going to grow the Right.

The Chans & Drumpf are not the problem, they're the results of the problem.

#4

mimi, if I find something good on the chans, I'll let you know. Of course, it probably won't happen. I doubt it's served up via the algorithm very often. Although YT can deliver a surprising slippery slope.

—

“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

Submitted by mimi on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 10:53am

thanks for this long comment,

@k9disc
I have to go through it later before I can comment on it.

—

https://www.euronews.com/live

Submitted by ChezJfrey on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 6:32pm

Not much to add at the moment...

@k9disc
Just wanted to ping-back that was a great post.

This 8chan/4chan is RW evil is pure stupid; neither of those sites cater to any ideology other than unfiltered, uncensored mayhem.

As a side-effect, there is a fair amount of super sleuthing there, as well. I remember them uncovering the trail of the center that filed some sort of legal complaint against Assange and they were able to document with web archives that this supposed "center" was based in some Democrat Party office; I followed their leads on that myself (via wayback and such) and verified their sleuthing was legit.

Perhaps that facet, and things like Anonymous that spawned from there, are the real "problem?" So, now we have the delegitimizer and calls to censor/omit from the internet?

5:20 - He likened it to an "invasion" - have you ever heard such nonsense about immigration? I mean, where could ANYONE have gotten a CRAZY idea like that...

6:00 - Drumpf TWEET about Europe not taking immigration seriously, the kid says "natives didn't take the European migration seriously" - I mean, they both have EUROPEAN in them... (need some hinky eyebrow raise)
6:30 - TWEET for every immigrant that comes in Texas gains a citizen, we have 9 new ones today -
"the heavy Hispanic population in Texas will make it a Democratic Stronghold"

I tells you, it's plagiarism the exact same words, even... from Twitter.

This is one of the worst Real News segments I've ever seen. Did they get purchased or something?

6:37 - The synergy he's talking about is free speech and freedom of assembly. Representative tweets something out, people talk about it and say shit. Same thing happens with the news.

9:12 - Drumpf is pushing identity in his campaign. lol... OK, guess it must be an outbreak then. WTF.

This guy is sensible though, and I wonder if he's having second thoughts about how his piece is being used. He's walked back Steiner the whole interview. He better be careful, he's going to become the supporter of RW Terrorism.

9:45 - I think it would be more interesting to ask why RW Nationalism is ascendant throughout the Western World. Don't you? Because blaming this shit on Donnie Drumpf and the Chans is making us all more stupid.

And the Alt-Right doesn't have a monopoly on terror. Man, I can't believe I've got to defend those fuckers. But it has to be done, because if I don't agree that they're the devil then I become one of them, kind of like a Russian Troll.

10:10 - Last Update... Don't think I can watch anymore...
Once again the OP walks back Steiner and talks of the history of the RW Pat Buchanan, and a few RW luminaries keeping the torch lit... The reason is...

and I was out... No more.

I think the reason for RW Nationalism in the West is the lack of a legitimate Leftist critique of corporate sponsored public policy. If poor kids had healthCARE, education, and a single wage earner household, or at least someone fighting for it, we might have some hope that it might happen for us.

The meritocracy makes us claw each other's eyes out to get ahead, and there is no opposition to that human rat race, ideologically speaking. It's become pretty obvious that not many humans are going to "make it", and people are not cool with that.

The lack of a balanced political critique and a captured and tortured dictionary with debate rules that create more heat than light is the problem. There is no hope of any amelioration of the plight of the common man in the Democratic Party's loyal opposition, and there hasn't been since they became the Washington Generals in 1988. This is the best it's gonna get.

Their penchant to IdPol (yup, that's a verb) as an institution is not helping. Democrats wear minorities like accessories to their ensemble, and the pattern is more than evident to anyone who has a different opinion. How's Brother West's reputation within the Democratic Party?

So you've got an intolerant Authoritarian Political Leadership (You can't say that!) vs the Politics of Authoritarian Intolerance (fuck you, you can't stop me.)

And nobody of any significant consequence is blowing the whistle on this shit. This, combined with a cesspool of authoritarian intolerance and you're going to grow the Right.

The Chans & Drumpf are not the problem, they're the results of the problem.

#4

mimi, if I find something good on the chans, I'll let you know. Of course, it probably won't happen. I doubt it's served up via the algorithm very often. Although YT can deliver a surprising slippery slope.

Submitted by thanatokephaloides on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 12:55pm

old problem

@k9disc

And there is another piece of Free Speech that is kind of new, I think, and that is the right to NOT believe something. Seems to me that the right to disagree with authority at this time is being turned into a crime.

Actually, that's an ancient problem, well known to the ancient Romans who were the original coiners of the word "censor".

Eliminate marijuana as a subject, and that selfsame problem is the predominant theme of this late-1960s ditty, too:

[video:https://youtu.be/sg3uZRX2R_0]

"All will pay who disagree with me...."

—

"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Submitted by detroitmechworks on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 9:36am

BBC has been spouting open propaganda for years now.

I don't care much for the agenda they're pushing, which seems to be a global corporate fascism combined with an all colors of the rainbow kuhmbaya branding. Seriously, it feels like whoever is running the show was traumatized by being trapped in "It's a Small World" for several days...

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV3lu3aElO4]

—

I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

Submitted by Roy Blakeley on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 1:45pm

Two points

@detroitmechworks @lotlizard It is interesting, although seldom mentioned among liberals, that the Koch brothers favorite "think tank" (aka propaganda organization), the Cato Institute has long championed open borders just like many liberals. The Kochs and the Clintons are together on this along with most Democratic Presidential candidates. It is also interesting that the liberals rarely point out that the people at the southern border are fleeing problems created substantially by US foreign and economic policy. The net result is that we screw over people in Central America and they flee to the US where they constitute a cheap labor pool and, in the case of people that are not legal residents of the US, a cheap and vulnerable labor pool. I have as much sympathy for the asylum seekers as anyone, and we must treat them humanely. If we are really going to make their lives better, however, we need to change things in their home countries.

Submitted by ludwig ii on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 9:38am

Facebook's internet-brewed racism

informs Trump's rhetoric, it's a platform for mass shooters, people livestream murders and suicides on there. It needs to be shut down immediately!

Twitter gives a platform to people who have committed or wish to commit war crimes, and even verifies them, like John McCain, Hillary, Obama, Bill Kristol, vile homophobes like Franklin Graham, and the apparent king of racism himself Donald J. Trump. It should be shut down immediately!

There are two things the MSM hate about the "chan" websites and others like them, and they highlight those in the video; there's little to no censorship, and people can post anonymously. Everything else is a diversion. From this to the fake news paranoia, the agenda to control the web should be clear by now. The goal is to reduce the type of information you can access and ideas you can discuss, while eliminating anonymity so you can be tracked with ease across every platform and risk real-life consequences for straying outside the realm of 'acceptable' discourse.

Submitted by mimi on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 10:49am

well, I guess I am that Nazi type then, because

@ludwig ii
I think anybody who can talk freely, should risk real-life consequences for this words. Why would any rights to freedom of expressions be necessary or make sense, if that freedom is anonymously given and there is no risk in saying anything whatever ?

I guess I am thoroughly confused. May be I should read other stuff...

—

https://www.euronews.com/live

Submitted by ludwig ii on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 3:00pm

How would you remove anonymity?

@mimi Everyone has to make their username their full name with photo ID? Or we all have to sign into our Fakebook before we can comment on something online? Do you think your employers, potential landlords, banks, etc. should all get to see everything you say online just by searching your name?

Submitted by mimi on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 3:52pm

well, how about destroying the intertubes altogether?

@ludwig ii
I have no love lost to them. Ok, I know that is my favorite pipe dream these days. What do you suggest? How to get rid of the trolls on 4Chan and 8Chan?

oh, the two worst technological advancement were the detection of nuclear fission and the development of the nuclear bomb and imo the intertube technology. Don't you understand? Who invented all that bad stuff? Think about it. Aah, now you got it, right?
/snarking out of my ears and both sides of my mouth

With apologies to JtC for abusing his site for gawd-awful divisive Dreck. I just believe that the 90 percent could heal living in a neighborhood that is free from the enslavement through the intertubes.

—

https://www.euronews.com/live

Submitted by lotlizard on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 10:44am

FBI: question “official or prevailing” narratives = CT = suspect

https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2019/08/07/an-open-invitation-to-tyranny/

Also:
Who remembers that two years ago James Hodgkinson, supposedly a Trump critic and Bernie supporter, shot up a GOP baseball game?
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/06/who-is-james-t-hodg...

In one [Facebook post on an account suspected of being Hodgkinson’s], Trump is described as a “traitor” who “has destroyed our democracy.” The Facebook account’s banner has an image of Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont, who ran against Hillary Clinton in the Democratic presidential primary. His profile picture has the U.S. flag with the words: “Democratic Socialism explained in 3 words: We the People.” He also appeared to maintain a Twitter account, which wasn’t particularly active. His most recent posts urged Democratic senators to filibuster the nomination of Neil Gorsuch, Trump’s nominee to the U.S. Supreme Court.

Submitted by lotlizard on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 12:53pm

“Liberals” and “progressives” don’t need 4chan and 8chan because

when it comes to fantasizing about hunting down and killing people from Republican-voting communities, they have Hollywood and the entertainment industry to do that for them??

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7339149/NBC-Universal-Pictures-...

NBC Universal Pictures still plans to release The Hunt about “liberal elites” kidnapping “deplorables” from red states and killing them for sport despite backlash in the wake of mass shootings

• NBC Universal is still pushing ahead with plans to release the movie The Hunt
• Movie is about liberal elites kidnapping and hunting MAGA types for sport in the upcoming political satire
• Some networks have already pulled trailers due to air over the weekend and will not be airing any promos leading up to the film’s release
• Several studios refused to buy the film because of its controversial plot

Submitted by thanatokephaloides on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 1:15pm

worse

@lotlizard

NBC Universal Pictures still plans to release The Hunt about “liberal elites” kidnapping “deplorables” from red states and killing them for sport despite backlash in the wake of mass shootings

• NBC Universal is still pushing ahead with plans to release the movie The Hunt
• Movie is about liberal elites kidnapping and hunting MAGA types for sport in the upcoming political satire
• Some networks have already pulled trailers due to air over the weekend and will not be airing any promos leading up to the film’s release
• Several studios refused to buy the film because of its controversial plot

And because it promises in every way to be worse than Heaven's Gate, currently recognized as the worst cinematic disaster in history!

Now that I think about it, the parallels between The Hunt and Heaven's Gate appear to be many -- and creepy as hell!

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 4:04pm

I have been very clear on this subject

I am very opposed to censorship of any kind with the exception of child pornography or direct threats to kill another person. The chans are the internet in probably one of its least moderated or censored forms. They are not for the faint of heart and I do not frequent them, but I will defend their right to exist without reservation.

Our society is already highly censored and our flow of information has become propagandized via the MSM. While not all internet sites are equal allowing for free discourse, the internet is the one place where we can still find a wider range of information and opinions than nearly any where else.

I recently saw where some official was calling for Reddit to be shut down because hate was being promoted on some Reddit sites. Reddit, 4chan, 8chan, and the like are simply vehicles by which people can exchange ideas and opinions. If someone does not like one of those vehicles, they should just avoid them. Hate can be spewed via many means, include the phone or word of mouth. So should we shut down our phone systems or make everyone tape their mouth shut to prevent hate speech?

My very first protest was in college over censorship and my belief in free speech, no matter how ugly or stupid must be defended at all costs.

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Submitted by snoopydawg on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 4:18pm

Ditto

@gulfgal98

I'm against censorship unless it crosses the lines you describe. Many of us talked about Facebook banning Alex Jones back when they did and we were against it while many were for it. I wrote a tweet about it 6 months ago saying that if Alex was banned for what he said....and I'm still getting likes for it a few times a week.

McConnell's campaign on Twitter has been stalled (brain freeze) because he posted a video of people outside his house saying that he should be stabbed while massacre Mitch was allowed to stay up.

Besides we know that a lot of the bannings and censorship are coming from government think tanks aligned with FB and Twitter.

Submitted by mimi on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 4:18pm

I know that, have you lived through chaos that

@gulfgal98
has been created by free speech hate trolls on the internet?

I think it's simply not that easy anymore. But I respect your continuous support of free speech rights - no matter what - no matter who - no matter the consequences.

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https://www.euronews.com/live

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 7:25pm

It is all about big picture thinking for me

@mimi This is not about the personal for me. And yes, I and my family were attacked years ago on a sports forum, of all things. And it hurt very much. But what would hurt even more is if we completely lose our right to freely speak. This is why I am so adamantly against censorship. Without free speech (even if it is trollish, insulting, or against our own personal beliefs), we cease to be free. Period.

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Submitted by mimi on Sat, 08/10/2019 - 12:21am

I respect you for your opinion, I have to say,

@gulfgal98 @gulfgal98
that for me almost everything is personal. What you haven't experienced in your backyard, neighborhood, family, in person, is less of an influence on most people than the ethical standards you uphold in theory. I try hard to support all forms of freedom of speech. Apparently I have some limits I can't handle very well. My fears take over and then I can make comments that prove my unconditional support questionable. I am sorry. Am just very worried.

edited grammar from 'of' to 'on'.

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https://www.euronews.com/live

Submitted by MrWebster on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 4:34pm

Look like moderator hijacked the chan discussion to bash Trump

He was pushing somewhat what the resistance pushes, that Evil started with Trump/Fox. What seems to be missing in alot of discussion is that when Trump leaves, the ideology that fueled Tim McViegh and others will still be around. When Trump and others talk about mental health background checks for gun ownership hides the fact that what propelled violence was a movement and not one single act of derangement.

Submitted by davidgmillsatty on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 11:03pm

@MrWebster People have made the

@MrWebster People have made the same claim about theater, literature, and the arts for centuries. More recently about movies. To somebody's mind, they incite violence, and should be shut down.

Submitted by lotlizard on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 11:43pm

Plato famously thought the arts and artists were dangerous.

@davidgmillsatty
Elites’ various justifications for censoring what the 99% are allowed to see and hear typically can be traced all the way back to Plato.

http://users.rowan.edu/~clowney/aesthetics/philos_artists_onart/plato.htm

Plato had a love-hate relationship with the arts. He must have had some love for the arts, because he talks about them often, and his remarks show that he paid close attention to what he saw and heard. He was also a fine literary stylist and a great story-teller; in fact he is said to have been a poet before he encountered Socrates and became a philosopher. Some of his dialogues are real literary masterpieces. On the other hand, he found the arts threatening. He proposed sending the poets and playwrights out of his ideal Republic, or at least censoring what they wrote; and he wanted music and painting severely censored. The arts, he thought, are powerful shapers of character. Thus, to train and protect ideal citizens for an ideal society, the arts must be strictly controlled.

Submitted by mimi on Sat, 08/10/2019 - 1:52am

ok, I close down on reading further comments

on this Dreck essay of mine and will not comment either. The issues are beyond my paygrade. Sorry for having abused JtCs platform again.

I am outta here now. Thanks for trying to educate me. I am a bad student. Never was a good one. Nothing more to admit. Too old anyhow to 'care' about anything. Bye.

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https://www.euronews.com/live

Submitted by The Liberal Moonbat on Sat, 08/10/2019 - 7:51am

copypasting for relevance

https://caucus99percent.com/comment/434587#comment-434587

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In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.

Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!