So it's Us vs. Them now, huh?

OOOOkay.

It appears the spirit of caucus99percent is dead. It took 4 years for the experiment to be done in by factionalism. I always thought that the left/right divide would be the undoing, I guess I was wrong. It was a good try though.

I now fully understand why political sites have hard standing rules.

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magiamma's picture

Coming down, but if there is anything I can do let me know please. Thank you for all you do. ( I mean it. )

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Stop Climate Change Silence - Start the Conversation

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@magiamma
To be clear the site itself is not going anywhere. The spirit is dying though, post by post, comment by comment. I've been watching it in real time for a while now. I don't know for sure myself what may be coming down, that's mostly up to the members here.

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@JtC

Where is it supposed to go?

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

edg's picture

@Fishtroller 02

Back to the roving HR gangs at Daily Whatsitsname!!

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@edg

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

lotlizard's picture

@JtC  
https://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/how-the-democratic-netroots-died/

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Anja Geitz's picture

@lotlizard

Is the beneficiary of both:

JPR is evidence that the Democrats are playing whack a mole with the blogosphere.

Another example is Caucus 99%.

When the authoritarians take custody of a forum or blog, another rises in it’s place, and it is typically, more radical than the one that was coopted before it. Probably because the displaced members are slightly pissed off. Probably because some of the brightest minds and skilled communicators are driven off, leaving blind followers behind.

It harkens back to a favorite saying from the days of #Occupy.

“You can’t kill an idea.”

Amen to that.

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

mimi's picture

@JtC
to be destroyed and divisiveness increased. As I am not an American and now thrown into Germany since 2 1/2 years in which my morals and civil conversation degraded and disappeared slowly but surely, I would like to say that all of it was my fault since quite a while.

I have started to see many issues differently from how I saw them before 2017, when I was still in the US.

I can't express my changed view points clearly or calmly. It also shouldn't be of any interest for Americans, so I should not try to let my huge political frustrations hang out and express them like I did.

If Us versus Them is killing the spirit of this site, I am willing to never talk here again.

I don't want to be the one who caused "the idea" to be killed. I believe I was. I am sorry for that.

I will be gone for at least twelve weeks. Time to recover the spirit for all of you, I hope.

Feel like crying now. Bye.

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Alligator Ed's picture

@mimi You are far too hard on yourself. For instance, I could do a much better job at castigating comments than any you have wrote. Besides, you and lotlizard are my only hopes to revive my dormant skills in Deutsche Sprechen.

Your world view is valuable because of an independent mind set, since you were not indoctrinated in Amerika and Amerikanism as a child.

Gustav Mahler wrote a song cycle about the great Amerikan experiment on educating young children, called Kindertotenlieder. The title refers to the minds of the kinder. I heartily recommend this musical enterprise to anyone feeling down in the dumps if you wish to become suicidal.

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mimi's picture

@Alligator Ed @Alligator Ed (edited spelling error)
PS I just go into a hospital and into a long rehabiliation care afterwards. I use that time to not be connected, because there is no way to be connected to the intertubes inside the hospital anyway.

Die Ärzte sagen, ich sollte mal abschalten. Und das tue ich auch. Verstanden? Vielleicht gehe ich ja einmal in den Zoo und schaue mir die Krokodile an. Dann denke ich an Dich. Wink

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Alligator Ed's picture

@mimi Aber ich bin eine Alligator--nicht Krokodile--niemals!

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mimi's picture

@Alligator Ed
so if I am going to see you in person, I imagine you as a Krokodil. Let's meet us in the middle. If you come to Germany, you will be my Krokodil, If I come to the US, you will be my beloved alligator.

In the spirit of civility ... I think we are doing fine. Preved

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Alligator Ed's picture

@mimi

Drinks

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lotlizard's picture

@mimi  
http://journal-club.ru/?q=image/tid/72

Oh-oh . . . Rachel Maddow and the Washington Post’s PropOrNot people are gonna see this thread and think, "Aha! — knew it all along — proof positive their little so-called ‘caucus’ over there is Putin’s parrot 99 percent.”

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Pricknick's picture

@lotlizard

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Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

mimi's picture

@lotlizard

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@mimi Please take good care and do not desert this nice place.

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@mimi

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lotlizard's picture

@mimi

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Dawn's Meta's picture

@mimi Beste Wünsche für eine bessere Gesundheit und eine gute Erholung. Es tut mir leid für mein schreckliches Deutsch.

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A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.

Consider helping by donating using the button in the upper left hand corner. Thank you.

Alligator Ed's picture

@Dawn's Meta I could interpret almost every you wrote auf Deutsche. Ist das eine "regrezzion" to a former Aryan reptile hood?

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Dawn's Meta's picture

@Alligator Ed @Alligator Ed @Alligator Ed Absolut nein. Meine Mutter war Deutsche und Elsässerin. Deshalb habe ich drei Jahre Deutsch für Ausländer studiert bei Portland Community College und Lewis und Clark College. (Deutsche Sommerschule am Pacifik - da mit H. F. Peters Lou Andreas Salome )

Lou and Rilke

Leider war es vor über dreißig Jahren ohne viel Übung.

Mein Vater war total Sizilianisch.

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1 user has voted.

A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.

Consider helping by donating using the button in the upper left hand corner. Thank you.

@mimi Actually I'M the one who is guilty, of something I'm sure. Probably a lot in fact. Mea culpa, mea maxima bob culpa. So, don't leave. I'm willing to step up and take the beatings for you. Preferably after the standard 24-hours notice.

Of course, I'm the type, when I'm in close proximity for instance to the po-lice, I always think: Well, the time had to come. They've finally found me. Might as well make it easy on all concerned and turn myself in.

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@mimi

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

lotlizard's picture

@magiamma

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Can you add some details?

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@gjohnsit
in my response to magi above.

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Is that related to capitalism and imperialism?

Seriously. Could you identify the factions please. I think some of the arguing going on here is great! And often funny. Most are kidding around with each other or catching up on pet news. Others are getting into good side bar discussions on topics like Ronald Reagan.
I think there still is a community, although a loose one, and I certainly would not agree with any obituary writings.

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

@Fishtroller 02
my eyeballs again.

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Anja Geitz's picture

@JtC

Empties out the communal refrigerator in our break room every Sunday. He's been doing it for as long as I can remember. Each Sunday. Same time. With a warning over the loudspeaker. Yet, he still hears complaints that he threw out someone's half eaten sandwich, or soda bottle.

The other day he said he was going to stop emptying out the refrigerator because he doesn't want to be the Father to 100 kids anymore.

I suspect right now you might sympathize with the Captain of our store?

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

@JtC

But while I'm here replying to you, I want to know what you mean by understanding why political blogs button up on the rules. What rules did you have in mind?

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

@Fishtroller 02
about changing the rules?

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@JtC

You said that you understood why political sites have 'hard standing rules'. I wondered what you meant by that and what rules you were referring to.

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

@Fishtroller 02
that I'm almost always measurably vague in these meta essays. That's my style. These (meta essays) usually have a cathartic effect in opening up discussion among the membership as is in full display in these threads.

I do admit that sometimes I may come off as being a jerk, which is many times true, but that's OK by me if it leads to the membership talking it out among themselves.

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@JtC
Orwell wrote about life and politics in the trenches during the three months he spent with the Anarchist POUM militia during the Spanish Civil War. In Chapter Three, there's this wonderful portrait of how megaphones are more important than bullets. But the most powerful weapon of all was the promise of buttered toast:

There seemed no hope of any real fighting. When we left Monte Pocero I had
counted my cartridges and found that in nearly three weeks I had fired just
three shots at the enemy. They say it takes a thousand bullets to kill a man,
and at this rate it would be twenty years before I killed my first Fascist. At
Monte Oscuro the lines were closer and one fired oftener, but I am reasonably
certain that I never hit anyone. As a matter of fact, on this front and at this
period of the war the real weapon was not the rifle but the megaphone. Being
unable to kill your enemy you shouted at him instead. This method of warfare is
so extraordinary that it needs explaining.

Wherever the lines were within hailing distance of one another there was
always a good deal of shouting from trench to trench. From ourselves: 'Fascistas
--maricones!' From the Fascists: ''Viva Espana! Viva Franco!'--or, when they
knew that there were English opposite them: 'Go home, you English! We don't want
foreigners here!' On the Government side, in the party militias, the shouting of
propaganda to undermine the enemy morale had been developed into a regular
technique. In every suitable position men, usually machine-gunners, were told
off for shouting-duty and provided with megaphones. Generally they shouted a
set-piece, full of revolutionary sentiments which explained to the Fascist
soldiers that they were merely the hirelings of international capitalism, that
they were fighting against their own class, etc., etc., and urged them to come
over to our side.

This was repeated over and over by relays of men; sometimes it
continued almost the whole night. There is very little doubt that it had its
effect; everyone agreed that the trickle of Fascist deserters was partly caused
by it. If one comes to think of it, when some poor devil of a sentry--very
likely a Socialist or Anarchist trade union member who has been conscripted
against his will--is freezing at his post, the slogan 'Don't fight against your
own class!' ringing again and again through the darkness is bound to make an
impression on him. It might make just the difference between deserting and not
deserting.

Of course such a proceeding does not fit in with the English
conception of war. I admit I was amazed and scandalized when I first saw it
done. The idea of trying to convert your enemy instead of shooting him! I now
think that from any point of view it was a legitimate manoeuvre. In ordinary
trench warfare, when there is no artillery, it is extremely difficult to inflict
casualties on the enemy without receiving an equal number yourself. If you can
immobilize a certain number of men by making them desert, so much the better;
deserters are actually more useful to you than corpses, because they can give
information. But at the beginning it dismayed all of us; it made us fed that the
Spaniards were not taking this war of theirs sufficiently seriously.

The man who did the shouting at the P.S.U.C. post down on our right was an artist at the
job. Sometimes, instead of shouting revolutionary slogans he simply told the
Fascists how much better we were fed than they were. His account of the
Government rations was apt to be a little imaginative.' Buttered toast!'--you
could hear his voice echoing across the lonely valley--'We're just sitting down
to buttered toast over here! Lovely slices of buttered toast!' I do not doubt
that, like the rest of us, he had not seen butter for weeks or months past, but
in the icy night the news of buttered toast probably set many a Fascist mouth
watering. It even made mine water, though I knew he was lying.

_____________

I believe you too, JtC, are such an artist.

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@leveymg

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@leveymg

from the trenches.

And it’s one, two, three, four,
what are we fighting for?

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@JtC

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

Lily O Lady's picture

our society. If I have unthinkingly been too harsh, please let me know. I try not to engage in protracted arguments, but may have overstepped.

Which brings me to the increasing level of anger I see around me. Yesterday, the President of the United States of America conducted a “Two Minutes Hate” focusing on United States Representative Ilhan Omar. He led the chant, “Send her back!” to the country of her birth. This atmosphere has to affect us all, like itching powder on our skin.

It should bring us pause, when hatred is so openly displayed. Instead of countering with more anger, we need to take a step back. We risk losing ourselves if we meet anger with anger.

Edit: changed “to” to “not”.

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

gulfgal98's picture

Sorry, JtC, I have no words to add. I have tried to state my position in a few previous essays, but sometimes saying nothing is better. Right now, I am just sad. Sad

Edit to add: I have been guilty of not writing essays that I had in mind for various reasons. So in that regard, I am one of those who has not contributed my fair share to this site.

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"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." John F Kennedy

@gulfgal98

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

@gulfgal98 because you always say what I'm thinking. Smile

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Anja Geitz's picture

To talk about politics and not feel contentious. The very nature of it breeds factionalism, doesn't it? The trick is finding a way where the focus is not on the -ism part and more on the human part. Which admittedly is easier said than done when hot button issues come to the fore. My own transgressions are proof of that.

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

magiamma's picture

And tRump-like, tweet-jerk reactions, not so much. Dunno. Peace.

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Stop Climate Change Silence - Start the Conversation

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What you've successfully created here is, in my experience, pretty much unique among political forums. What initially caught my eye was the calm civility, relaxed (mature) atmosphere, underlying intelligence and sophistication, interesting mix of voices and points of view, and the, well, ineffable beauty of your shared history as former members of Daily Kos who, when push came to shove, refused to sell out. This place is a diaspora of morally robust survivors. I've loved coming here and reading and still have doubts as to the wisdom of joining in, since there is an element of privacy in what you've created here. After years of pleasant lurkitude, some of you emerged as "main characters," and I hope the presence of a relative stranger has not frightened them off. Two that come to mind at present are the incredibly deep, sensitive, "Can't stop the macedonian music," and the nice fellow whose videos used to appear regularly on the front page (can't remember his name). They seem to have disappeared, and I hope it's not because of outsiders barging in on what probably felt like a private world. I would not want my outsider presence to weaken something I value and admire. IOW, I would not mind relinquishing my sign-in/ posting privileges, if it would help. This place would still be a good read, a good voice in the world.

As for differing understandings of how the world works (e.g., is AOC a fake, are the Dems at war with one another, are some whom we think we know and love actually imposters serving "the other side") -- isn't that profoundly human and therefore open to discussion and analysis? It's hard to give up illusions. Really hard, and when we've successfully accomplished it, we should be sensitive to those who cling to familiar institutions. After all, I worked my ass off for Obama's 2012 reelection. It took the Dems screwing Bernie three years later to pry my eyes open, and now I view my former local Democrats as souls lost in time (sort of). Perhaps when someone refers to AOC as "not what she seems," those who still take her at face value could suggest a discussion thread on the subject? Analyzing these differences/ discrepancies would be good for the community and also for the broader lurking/voting public. And if we still don't all agree, it's not the end of the world.

But don't give up something this great at the slightest outbreak of very human conflicts and irritations. Things don't have to be consistently perfect to be entirely worthwhile.

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Anja Geitz's picture

@laurel

What initially caught my eye was the calm civility, relaxed (mature) atmosphere, underlying intelligence and sophistication, interesting mix of voices and points of view, and the, well, ineffable beauty of your shared history as former members of Daily Kos who, when push came to shove, refused to sell out.

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

@laurel
I'm giving up?

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thanatokephaloides's picture

@JtC

Who said...I'm giving up?

Not fact, but fear. You giving up on us is what we fear.

The fact is that through your various efforts, you have, in fact, created a community here which regularly discusses political things without the bitter rancor which usually attends such discussions. Even at our worst, we're still far better than most at this.

The c99 spirit is far from dead. Please don't let occasional deviances from it convince you otherwise. The deviances are the "occupational hazard" of doing what we are doing in the c99 way that we are doing it, just as dealing with 30,000 volts of DC was an "occupational hazard" for me when I was working on old-school TV sets. Yes, I got "bit" now and again. But I fixed quite a few sets, too. Likewise, the c99 spirit goes on from strength to strength. Some of the Comments in this very thread are proof positive of this.

Nihil illegitimis carborundum, amice! Smile

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"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

lotlizard's picture

@thanatokephaloides  
https://caucus99percent.com/comment/146721#comment-146721

just as dealing with 30,000 volts of DC was an "occupational hazard" for me when I was working on old-school TV sets.

1950s TVs had a “high-voltage doghouse” — beware of that dog!

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thanatokephaloides's picture

@lotlizard

1950s TVs had a “high-voltage doghouse” — beware of that dog!

Ah, memories..... Smile

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"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

ggersh's picture

@JtC Just kidding

EDIT:my dry sense of humor hopefully gets a giggle

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trump will be amerika's last president

There is no way in the American political system to vote against the interests of GS, JPM, Citi, ATT, AMZN, MSFT, WM, Alphabet, FB, APPL, Exxon Mobil, Lockheed Martin, UHG or Northrop Grumman.

@JtC you said something a few months ago that sorta sounded like it. I'm glad it's not true; maybe you're just a very conscientious forum administrator. You have so much to be proud of -- enjoy!

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@laurel
comment that I just posted to Fishtroller 02, it may help explain why I'm so hard to pin down.

https://caucus99percent.com/comment/431359#comment-431359

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Anja Geitz's picture

@laurel

CStMS Is still here and I'm not sure who the other poster you mentioned is. Might be NCTim who does the Friday OT and who is motorcycling through Europe right now? At any rate, please, please do not feel like you are intruding. I can only speak for myself, (irony aside) but I welcome new voices into the mix. Keeps things fresh and our minds nimble!

You have a voice here too, Laurel, and from what I've seen already, I think I'm going to enjoying hearing more of it.

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

Lily O Lady's picture

@Anja Geitz

He may be dealing with illness at home.

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

karl pearson's picture

@Lily O Lady I think you're right. I followed Steven D over to c99% when he left another blog. Hope he is feeling better and will be back sometime.

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WoodsDweller's picture

@laurel
"diaspora of morally robust survivors". Nice.

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The truth is never as interesting as wild speculation.

lotlizard's picture

@laurel

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Anja Geitz's picture

@lotlizard

Is that who Laurel meant? I was thinking music videos.

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

@lotlizard When Anja said he's currently motorcycling through Europe, it made me so happy to learn that he'd recovered his physical strength to such an amazing extent. I hope all is well with him; for a long time he seemed like the "face" of C99%.

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lotlizard's picture

@laurel  
But yes, Steve D did later have to deal with health issues — I share your hope that he has recovered his strength and all is well, or as well as can reasonably be expected.

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Anja Geitz's picture

@laurel

I did hear from Steven a few weeks ago when I posted my first OT. He stopped by in the comments.

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

snoopydawg's picture

@laurel
As to this:

I've loved coming here and reading and still have doubts as to the wisdom of joining in, since there is an element of privacy in what you've created here.

I am glad that you finally added your voice to the blue blog and that you feel welcome here.

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America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

@snoopydawg And thanks to others who commented similarly. It's nice to hear, though I'm really not seeking attention, nor do I enjoy it very much. Please understand. Smile Hopefully, what anyone may have learned from my comment is how you all come across to others and what a good thing you have here.

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@laurel

We left daily kos because we didn't like roving gangs of cliques intimidating others into following an ideology or a party line. This is not a closed-minded blog. The day it becomes one, we will all leave. The surest way to get people to leave is to threaten and bully them. The second surest way is to bore them to death with an echo chamber.

Hope you will speak out more often. As someone noted below, who else would say "a diaspora of morally robust survivors".

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Anja Geitz's picture

@dkmich

The surest way to get people to leave is to threaten and bully them. The second surest way is to bore them to death with an echo chamber.

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

Shahryar's picture

@dkmich

dk, you know we love you and that we sometimes disagree...which is a good thing. We can only get to some sort of truth if we look at different angles. And you know that thing that we disagree on? You might be right. Or I might be. And that's another good thing, to be able to keep the thought that someone else might have better insight at any particular time.

However....I don't mind tweaking right-wingers who make no sense.

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@Shahryar

resolving disagreements is where the challenge and the fun lies.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Unabashed Liberal's picture

@dkmich

OkMollie

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10 users have voted.

Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

Eagles92's picture

@dkmich Maybe @JtC could occasionally swap this in for our temporary tagline, much like he substituted the rose and Vlad icons for the comment thumbs-ups. Smile

(Hat tip to you, @Laurel -- glad you're here and participating in the conversation).

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gulfgal98's picture

@laurel Despite the fact that most of us try not to do so, sometimes we can get mired in our own echo chamber. Fresh voices bring new ideas an a fresh perspective that all of us can use. Your comment above is evidence of this fact. I hope you will continue to comment and even post an essay here. Welcome.

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"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." John F Kennedy

@laurel sentiments, laurel. But the "private world" angle makes me uneasy. It might tend to have some built-in notions of conformity and unity of thought, insider vs outsider, long-timer vs newbie stranger, which I don't think is welcoming or healthy, and is not what this site is supposed to be about. I know you meant well, but some of that has vague echoes of other things in the news lately, which I'm sure you'd not want to be associated with. But right now I can't help but feel rather "outsider-y" in this blog.

Re AOC: Isn't it up the those making the charges against her, as a fraud, an actress, not really a True Progressive etc, to argue their case, show some proof, rather than those who disagree having to prove a negative? And if they do step up, please note that a cite to the "Mr Reagan" video means you automatically lose the argument.

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14 users have voted.

@wokkamile and I appreciate it. I'm not familiar enough to know if you're a newbie like me or an oldie, but if you're feeling "outsiderish," then you're probably a relative newbie. The subtlety of what you said seemed at first like a dense forest I wasn't sure I could navigate as my own limitations render me somewhat impervious to nuance and perhaps overly reliant on reason, logic, and plain-spokenness. But what I think you're indicating is that my respect for the C99% community's shared history and earned familiarity/trust with one another lends a certain exclusivity to my depiction of them -- and "exclusivity is, of course, inherently bad." And interestingly enough, this does in fact dovetail with an aspect of my currently evolving political consciousness which is coming about as a result of attempts to comprehend the rightwing worldview, now that I have a better understanding of how we have been manipulated by those who purport to represent the left.

Formerly, I would have sided with the "open borders" crowd (of which Hillary is a proud member) against the border protectionists -- and who knows, I probably would have virtue-signaled like crazy around that. Now, as I begin to comprehend how fundamental group familiarity, cohesion and comfort are to some very basic aspects of civilization, social harmony, and personal well-being, I find myself questioning the wisdom of forcibly ripping nations apart, spilling their traumatized, incredibly needy inhabitants en masse into unprepared countries, and then telling the recipient communities, who suddenly find their longstanding traditions, day-to-day life cycles, social/ cultural infrastructure upended, to just suck it up. IOW, I've begun to understand the importance of slowly, organically developed communities to the very possibility of a sustainable civilization. See, I'm starting to think that (warning: CT coming) the brilliant think-tank minds who gave us 911 as a perfect justification for the development of a "national security" surveillance state and endless regime-change wars, were fully cognizant, even desirous, of the inevitable mass emigrations from bombed, invaded, occupied countries and the resulting repercussions across Europe and the Americas. Social scientists could have informed them -- and probably did -- about limitations on the ability of communities to sustain themselves under mass influx from without.

But the purveyors of the past 2 decades of destruction and mass disruption do not give a shit about the people of the countries on either side (incoming and outgoing) and in fact I wouldn't be surprised if they intended the breakdown of entire societies and even civil wars to break out on mass scales. (Even bigger CT) I think it's entirely possible that they wanted these events as justification for a full-blown police state and (CTs snowballing) a global New World Order of the totalitarian variety. In fact, I'll bet it gives our oligarchic superiors the same kind of satisfaction that floated across Dick Cheney's face as he quietly observed footage of the 911 assault on NY.

When I think of "community," I think of people raising their children, sending them to decent affordable schools, having meaningful employment, tending their gardens, participating in school activities like PTA, sports, festivals, and I think of people openly discussing politics in coffee shops and sometimes putting together petitions or demonstrations, and I think of people in parks feeding the ducks, making music, sharing food, laughing, going home at night to cook, relax, bond in relative peace and quiet, tuck in their kids, sleep safely and soundly.

Much of that depends on basic trust, a degree of certainty, in the supporting social structures. That's what an established community can do, and though change and improvement are always necessary, I think the community as a whole should be honored and maintained.

Tired now. This may not address all your concerns, but maybe some of them.

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21 users have voted.
Alligator Ed's picture

@laurel

Formerly, I would have sided with the "open borders" crowd (of which Hillary is a proud member) against the border protectionists -- and who knows, I probably would have virtue-signaled like crazy around that. Now, as I begin to comprehend how fundamental group familiarity, cohesion and comfort are to some very basic aspects of civilization, social harmony, and personal well-being, I find myself questioning the wisdom of forcibly ripping nations apart, spilling their traumatized, incredibly needy inhabitants en masse into unprepared countries, and then telling the recipient communities, who suddenly find their longstanding traditions, day-to-day life cycles, social/ cultural infrastructure upended, to just suck it up. IOW, I've begun to understand the importance of slowly, organically developed communities to the very possibility of a sustainable civilization. See, I'm starting to think that (warning: CT coming) the brilliant think-tank minds who gave us 911 as a perfect justification for the development of a "national security" surveillance state and endless regime-change wars, were fully cognizant, even desirous, of the inevitable mass emigrations from bombed, invaded, occupied countries and the resulting repercussions across Europe and the Americas. Social scientists could have informed them -- and probably did -- about limitations on the ability of communities to sustain themselves under mass influx from without.

Your insight on immigration, at least, is congruent with mine. Without cultural cohesion, there can be no culture--only chaos. This is just fine with Killary and her crowd (including G.S.) because all they care about is wealth and personal luxury. You and I are just tolerated impediments to their unfettered well-developed means of self-promotion financially and influentially.

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11 users have voted.

@Alligator Ed
to our betters. Where's the fun of being a lord in a world with no serfs?

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12 users have voted.
Alligator Ed's picture

@FuturePassed Were I physically able, I would bow to you. You are lurking less and hopefully enjoying it more. Generally this group is well mannered. Do not think for one second that I am referring to me. As they say in the swamp: "Jump in the water, and I'll dine"

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8 users have voted.

@laurel comments, and especially many of those in your 2d para. The CT there is not far-fetched at all.

And I'm sure TPTB have even more horrible ideas in the works for the near future, alas.

Meanwhile, as we discuss meta here, this country is sliding into fascism. Even one of the experts in that area, Jason Stanley from Yale, called Trump's NC rally "the face of evil"

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10 users have voted.
Alligator Ed's picture

@wokkamile but what made the observer or reporter making that statement showed EVIL. I am not prejudiced in either direction.
After reading comments upon the speech, then I'll watch (maybe).

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3 users have voted.
lotlizard's picture

@laurel  
Much gratitude to you for all you have expressed here.

The psychological conditioning induced by the media and other gatekeepers of goodthink lead so many of us to stay silent, thinking we are alone, a negligible minority, in questioning the approved narratives of the day.

In actuality we are the majority — the tiny minority are the billionaire beneficiaries of the behavior patterns the system’s conditioning tries to instill.

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13 users have voted.
Alligator Ed's picture

@lotlizard

In actuality we are the majority — the tiny minority are the billionaire beneficiaries of the behavior patterns the system’s conditioning tries to instill.

And anybody that doesn't know is either congenitally or acquisitively retarded*.

P.S. I'll amend the proposal. You as the co-founder of die Partei in America, will be the first elected, do-nothing-on-purpose representative. I will await the next election cycle to claim out two seats in the halls of power.

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5 users have voted.
polkageist's picture

@laurel
Don't stop now. I no longer write essays because others here do so just as well or better than me. But I pay attention to what is written. So I will be happy to read what you have to say.

I'm not sure what this current problem is because I don't participate in conversations outside of C99's main page. There are a couple of men whose postings I don't read. I don't like their way of stating things. I have found that it's easier to just ignore one or two unpleasant people and stick with the majority who are reasonable. On C99 the reasonable people far outnumber the problem children.

As an example, I like the points you bring up about AOC. For me the jury is still out. But the discussions are interesting and I would love to see more with persuasive arguments pro and con. These are what this site does so well: few personal attacks but lots of opinions and discussion. As I have found, ignoring silly people on websites usually works pretty well. They thrive only when they get an audience.

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23 users have voted.

Greed is not a virtue.
Socialism: the radical idea of sharing.

snoopydawg's picture

@polkageist

I don't participate in conversations outside of C99's main page.

Not all essays get bumped to the front page so if you're aren't reading the community page you might have missed some good ones. Some times I post a funny twitt that gets lots of great comments on them and others post great stuff, but stays on CC... just checking..

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11 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

polkageist's picture

@snoopydawg
Snoopy dog I always read your posts.

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11 users have voted.

Greed is not a virtue.
Socialism: the radical idea of sharing.

@laurel

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7 users have voted.

"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

edg's picture

I often take the contrary view to other members here and feel safe in doing so. Unlike another, orangey site I used to visit, the members here are overwhelmingly cordial even when they strongly disagree with your contrary view.

For me, that's the best reason for this site existing. There's the member who's an obvious Trump fan and outright conservative, yet doesn't get ban-hammered or HR-ed out of existence. There's the lady who lives in Germany and provides not only divergence but often head-scratching comic relief. There's the prolific essayist who obviously never sleeps because their output is prodigious and generally well-researched.

And then there's numbskulls like me that sometimes swim upstream against popular opinion and, amazingly for the Internet, survive the experience.

Keep the faith. As Red Green says, I'm pulling for you. We're all in this together.

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25 users have voted.

@edg myself. So we have at least that in common. Though I'm sure my diplomatic skills in the course of disagreeing could use some polishing. Averill Harriman I am not.

And I would hate to see this place become just a Kumbaya Love Fest where people tip-toe around lest the most sensitive here might have to take to the fainting couch, or a site with Stalinist thought conformity being imposed from above, like that there Kos place seems to have become.

Cheers ...

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9 users have voted.
edg's picture

@wokkamile

You nailed it.

I would hate to see this place become just a Kumbaya Love Fest where people tip-toe around lest the most sensitive here might have to take to the fainting couch, or a site with Stalinist thought conformity being imposed from above

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6 users have voted.
Raggedy Ann's picture

us or them. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...............

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18 users have voted.

“The trouble [with injustice] is that once you see it, you can’t unsee it. And once you’ve seen it, keeping quiet, saying nothing, becomes as political an act as speaking out. There is no innocence. Either way, you’re accountable.”
-- Arundhati Roy

WoodsDweller's picture

@Raggedy Ann
There is no "them". There's only "us".

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20 users have voted.

The truth is never as interesting as wild speculation.

@Raggedy Ann

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7 users have voted.

"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

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