So it's Us vs. Them now, huh?

OOOOkay.

It appears the spirit of caucus99percent is dead. It took 4 years for the experiment to be done in by factionalism. I always thought that the left/right divide would be the undoing, I guess I was wrong. It was a good try though.

I now fully understand why political sites have hard standing rules.

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magiamma's picture

Coming down, but if there is anything I can do let me know please. Thank you for all you do. ( I mean it. )

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@magiamma
To be clear the site itself is not going anywhere. The spirit is dying though, post by post, comment by comment. I've been watching it in real time for a while now. I don't know for sure myself what may be coming down, that's mostly up to the members here.

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@JtC

Where is it supposed to go?

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

edg's picture

@Fishtroller 02

Back to the roving HR gangs at Daily Whatsitsname!!

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@edg

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

lotlizard's picture

@JtC  
https://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/how-the-democratic-netroots-died/

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Anja Geitz's picture

@lotlizard

Is the beneficiary of both:

JPR is evidence that the Democrats are playing whack a mole with the blogosphere.

Another example is Caucus 99%.

When the authoritarians take custody of a forum or blog, another rises in it’s place, and it is typically, more radical than the one that was coopted before it. Probably because the displaced members are slightly pissed off. Probably because some of the brightest minds and skilled communicators are driven off, leaving blind followers behind.

It harkens back to a favorite saying from the days of #Occupy.

“You can’t kill an idea.”

Amen to that.

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

mimi's picture

@JtC
to be destroyed and divisiveness increased. As I am not an American and now thrown into Germany since 2 1/2 years in which my morals and civil conversation degraded and disappeared slowly but surely, I would like to say that all of it was my fault since quite a while.

I have started to see many issues differently from how I saw them before 2017, when I was still in the US.

I can't express my changed view points clearly or calmly. It also shouldn't be of any interest for Americans, so I should not try to let my huge political frustrations hang out and express them like I did.

If Us versus Them is killing the spirit of this site, I am willing to never talk here again.

I don't want to be the one who caused "the idea" to be killed. I believe I was. I am sorry for that.

I will be gone for at least twelve weeks. Time to recover the spirit for all of you, I hope.

Feel like crying now. Bye.

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mimi

Alligator Ed's picture

@mimi You are far too hard on yourself. For instance, I could do a much better job at castigating comments than any you have wrote. Besides, you and lotlizard are my only hopes to revive my dormant skills in Deutsche Sprechen.

Your world view is valuable because of an independent mind set, since you were not indoctrinated in Amerika and Amerikanism as a child.

Gustav Mahler wrote a song cycle about the great Amerikan experiment on educating young children, called Kindertotenlieder. The title refers to the minds of the kinder. I heartily recommend this musical enterprise to anyone feeling down in the dumps if you wish to become suicidal.

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mimi's picture

@Alligator Ed @Alligator Ed (edited spelling error)
PS I just go into a hospital and into a long rehabiliation care afterwards. I use that time to not be connected, because there is no way to be connected to the intertubes inside the hospital anyway.

Die Ärzte sagen, ich sollte mal abschalten. Und das tue ich auch. Verstanden? Vielleicht gehe ich ja einmal in den Zoo und schaue mir die Krokodile an. Dann denke ich an Dich. Wink

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mimi

Alligator Ed's picture

@mimi Aber ich bin eine Alligator--nicht Krokodile--niemals!

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mimi's picture

@Alligator Ed
so if I am going to see you in person, I imagine you as a Krokodil. Let's meet us in the middle. If you come to Germany, you will be my Krokodil, If I come to the US, you will be my beloved alligator.

In the spirit of civility ... I think we are doing fine. Preved

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mimi

Alligator Ed's picture

@mimi

Drinks

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lotlizard's picture

@mimi  
http://journal-club.ru/?q=image/tid/72

Oh-oh . . . Rachel Maddow and the Washington Post’s PropOrNot people are gonna see this thread and think, "Aha! — knew it all along — proof positive their little so-called ‘caucus’ over there is Putin’s parrot 99 percent.”

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Pricknick's picture

@lotlizard

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Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

mimi's picture

@lotlizard

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mimi

@mimi Please take good care and do not desert this nice place.

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Lurking in the wings is Hillary, like some terrifying bat hanging by her feet in a cavern below the DNC. A bat with theropod instincts. -- Fred Reed https://tinyurl.com/vgvuhcl

@mimi

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lotlizard's picture

@mimi

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Dawn's Meta's picture

@mimi Beste Wünsche für eine bessere Gesundheit und eine gute Erholung. Es tut mir leid für mein schreckliches Deutsch.

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A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.

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Alligator Ed's picture

@Dawn's Meta I could interpret almost every you wrote auf Deutsche. Ist das eine "regrezzion" to a former Aryan reptile hood?

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Dawn's Meta's picture

@Alligator Ed @Alligator Ed @Alligator Ed Absolut nein. Meine Mutter war Deutsche und Elsässerin. Deshalb habe ich drei Jahre Deutsch für Ausländer studiert bei Portland Community College und Lewis und Clark College. (Deutsche Sommerschule am Pacifik - da mit H. F. Peters Lou Andreas Salome )

Lou and Rilke

Leider war es vor über dreißig Jahren ohne viel Übung.

Mein Vater war total Sizilianisch.

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A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.

Consider helping by donating using the button in the upper left hand corner. Thank you.

@mimi Actually I'M the one who is guilty, of something I'm sure. Probably a lot in fact. Mea culpa, mea maxima bob culpa. So, don't leave. I'm willing to step up and take the beatings for you. Preferably after the standard 24-hours notice.

Of course, I'm the type, when I'm in close proximity for instance to the po-lice, I always think: Well, the time had to come. They've finally found me. Might as well make it easy on all concerned and turn myself in.

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@mimi

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

lotlizard's picture

@magiamma

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Can you add some details?

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@gjohnsit
in my response to magi above.

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Is that related to capitalism and imperialism?

Seriously. Could you identify the factions please. I think some of the arguing going on here is great! And often funny. Most are kidding around with each other or catching up on pet news. Others are getting into good side bar discussions on topics like Ronald Reagan.
I think there still is a community, although a loose one, and I certainly would not agree with any obituary writings.

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

@Fishtroller 02
my eyeballs again.

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Anja Geitz's picture

@JtC

Empties out the communal refrigerator in our break room every Sunday. He's been doing it for as long as I can remember. Each Sunday. Same time. With a warning over the loudspeaker. Yet, he still hears complaints that he threw out someone's half eaten sandwich, or soda bottle.

The other day he said he was going to stop emptying out the refrigerator because he doesn't want to be the Father to 100 kids anymore.

I suspect right now you might sympathize with the Captain of our store?

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

@JtC

But while I'm here replying to you, I want to know what you mean by understanding why political blogs button up on the rules. What rules did you have in mind?

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

@Fishtroller 02
about changing the rules?

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@JtC

You said that you understood why political sites have 'hard standing rules'. I wondered what you meant by that and what rules you were referring to.

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

@Fishtroller 02
that I'm almost always measurably vague in these meta essays. That's my style. These (meta essays) usually have a cathartic effect in opening up discussion among the membership as is in full display in these threads.

I do admit that sometimes I may come off as being a jerk, which is many times true, but that's OK by me if it leads to the membership talking it out among themselves.

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@JtC
Orwell wrote about life and politics in the trenches during the three months he spent with the Anarchist POUM militia during the Spanish Civil War. In Chapter Three, there's this wonderful portrait of how megaphones are more important than bullets. But the most powerful weapon of all was the promise of buttered toast:

There seemed no hope of any real fighting. When we left Monte Pocero I had
counted my cartridges and found that in nearly three weeks I had fired just
three shots at the enemy. They say it takes a thousand bullets to kill a man,
and at this rate it would be twenty years before I killed my first Fascist. At
Monte Oscuro the lines were closer and one fired oftener, but I am reasonably
certain that I never hit anyone. As a matter of fact, on this front and at this
period of the war the real weapon was not the rifle but the megaphone. Being
unable to kill your enemy you shouted at him instead. This method of warfare is
so extraordinary that it needs explaining.

Wherever the lines were within hailing distance of one another there was
always a good deal of shouting from trench to trench. From ourselves: 'Fascistas
--maricones!' From the Fascists: ''Viva Espana! Viva Franco!'--or, when they
knew that there were English opposite them: 'Go home, you English! We don't want
foreigners here!' On the Government side, in the party militias, the shouting of
propaganda to undermine the enemy morale had been developed into a regular
technique. In every suitable position men, usually machine-gunners, were told
off for shouting-duty and provided with megaphones. Generally they shouted a
set-piece, full of revolutionary sentiments which explained to the Fascist
soldiers that they were merely the hirelings of international capitalism, that
they were fighting against their own class, etc., etc., and urged them to come
over to our side.

This was repeated over and over by relays of men; sometimes it
continued almost the whole night. There is very little doubt that it had its
effect; everyone agreed that the trickle of Fascist deserters was partly caused
by it. If one comes to think of it, when some poor devil of a sentry--very
likely a Socialist or Anarchist trade union member who has been conscripted
against his will--is freezing at his post, the slogan 'Don't fight against your
own class!' ringing again and again through the darkness is bound to make an
impression on him. It might make just the difference between deserting and not
deserting.

Of course such a proceeding does not fit in with the English
conception of war. I admit I was amazed and scandalized when I first saw it
done. The idea of trying to convert your enemy instead of shooting him! I now
think that from any point of view it was a legitimate manoeuvre. In ordinary
trench warfare, when there is no artillery, it is extremely difficult to inflict
casualties on the enemy without receiving an equal number yourself. If you can
immobilize a certain number of men by making them desert, so much the better;
deserters are actually more useful to you than corpses, because they can give
information. But at the beginning it dismayed all of us; it made us fed that the
Spaniards were not taking this war of theirs sufficiently seriously.

The man who did the shouting at the P.S.U.C. post down on our right was an artist at the
job. Sometimes, instead of shouting revolutionary slogans he simply told the
Fascists how much better we were fed than they were. His account of the
Government rations was apt to be a little imaginative.' Buttered toast!'--you
could hear his voice echoing across the lonely valley--'We're just sitting down
to buttered toast over here! Lovely slices of buttered toast!' I do not doubt
that, like the rest of us, he had not seen butter for weeks or months past, but
in the icy night the news of buttered toast probably set many a Fascist mouth
watering. It even made mine water, though I knew he was lying.

_____________

I believe you too, JtC, are such an artist.

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@leveymg

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@leveymg

from the trenches.

And it’s one, two, three, four,
what are we fighting for?

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@JtC

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

Lily O Lady's picture

our society. If I have unthinkingly been too harsh, please let me know. I try not to engage in protracted arguments, but may have overstepped.

Which brings me to the increasing level of anger I see around me. Yesterday, the President of the United States of America conducted a “Two Minutes Hate” focusing on United States Representative Ilhan Omar. He led the chant, “Send her back!” to the country of her birth. This atmosphere has to affect us all, like itching powder on our skin.

It should bring us pause, when hatred is so openly displayed. Instead of countering with more anger, we need to take a step back. We risk losing ourselves if we meet anger with anger.

Edit: changed “to” to “not”.

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

gulfgal98's picture

Sorry, JtC, I have no words to add. I have tried to state my position in a few previous essays, but sometimes saying nothing is better. Right now, I am just sad. Sad

Edit to add: I have been guilty of not writing essays that I had in mind for various reasons. So in that regard, I am one of those who has not contributed my fair share to this site.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

@gulfgal98

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

@gulfgal98 because you always say what I'm thinking. Smile

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Lurking in the wings is Hillary, like some terrifying bat hanging by her feet in a cavern below the DNC. A bat with theropod instincts. -- Fred Reed https://tinyurl.com/vgvuhcl

Anja Geitz's picture

To talk about politics and not feel contentious. The very nature of it breeds factionalism, doesn't it? The trick is finding a way where the focus is not on the -ism part and more on the human part. Which admittedly is easier said than done when hot button issues come to the fore. My own transgressions are proof of that.

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

magiamma's picture

And tRump-like, tweet-jerk reactions, not so much. Dunno. Peace.

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Stop Climate Change Silence - Start the Conversation

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What you've successfully created here is, in my experience, pretty much unique among political forums. What initially caught my eye was the calm civility, relaxed (mature) atmosphere, underlying intelligence and sophistication, interesting mix of voices and points of view, and the, well, ineffable beauty of your shared history as former members of Daily Kos who, when push came to shove, refused to sell out. This place is a diaspora of morally robust survivors. I've loved coming here and reading and still have doubts as to the wisdom of joining in, since there is an element of privacy in what you've created here. After years of pleasant lurkitude, some of you emerged as "main characters," and I hope the presence of a relative stranger has not frightened them off. Two that come to mind at present are the incredibly deep, sensitive, "Can't stop the macedonian music," and the nice fellow whose videos used to appear regularly on the front page (can't remember his name). They seem to have disappeared, and I hope it's not because of outsiders barging in on what probably felt like a private world. I would not want my outsider presence to weaken something I value and admire. IOW, I would not mind relinquishing my sign-in/ posting privileges, if it would help. This place would still be a good read, a good voice in the world.

As for differing understandings of how the world works (e.g., is AOC a fake, are the Dems at war with one another, are some whom we think we know and love actually imposters serving "the other side") -- isn't that profoundly human and therefore open to discussion and analysis? It's hard to give up illusions. Really hard, and when we've successfully accomplished it, we should be sensitive to those who cling to familiar institutions. After all, I worked my ass off for Obama's 2012 reelection. It took the Dems screwing Bernie three years later to pry my eyes open, and now I view my former local Democrats as souls lost in time (sort of). Perhaps when someone refers to AOC as "not what she seems," those who still take her at face value could suggest a discussion thread on the subject? Analyzing these differences/ discrepancies would be good for the community and also for the broader lurking/voting public. And if we still don't all agree, it's not the end of the world.

But don't give up something this great at the slightest outbreak of very human conflicts and irritations. Things don't have to be consistently perfect to be entirely worthwhile.

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Lurking in the wings is Hillary, like some terrifying bat hanging by her feet in a cavern below the DNC. A bat with theropod instincts. -- Fred Reed https://tinyurl.com/vgvuhcl

Anja Geitz's picture

@laurel

What initially caught my eye was the calm civility, relaxed (mature) atmosphere, underlying intelligence and sophistication, interesting mix of voices and points of view, and the, well, ineffable beauty of your shared history as former members of Daily Kos who, when push came to shove, refused to sell out.

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

@laurel
I'm giving up?

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thanatokephaloides's picture

@JtC

Who said...I'm giving up?

Not fact, but fear. You giving up on us is what we fear.

The fact is that through your various efforts, you have, in fact, created a community here which regularly discusses political things without the bitter rancor which usually attends such discussions. Even at our worst, we're still far better than most at this.

The c99 spirit is far from dead. Please don't let occasional deviances from it convince you otherwise. The deviances are the "occupational hazard" of doing what we are doing in the c99 way that we are doing it, just as dealing with 30,000 volts of DC was an "occupational hazard" for me when I was working on old-school TV sets. Yes, I got "bit" now and again. But I fixed quite a few sets, too. Likewise, the c99 spirit goes on from strength to strength. Some of the Comments in this very thread are proof positive of this.

Nihil illegitimis carborundum, amice! Smile

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

lotlizard's picture

@thanatokephaloides  
https://caucus99percent.com/comment/146721#comment-146721

just as dealing with 30,000 volts of DC was an "occupational hazard" for me when I was working on old-school TV sets.

1950s TVs had a “high-voltage doghouse” — beware of that dog!

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thanatokephaloides's picture

@lotlizard

1950s TVs had a “high-voltage doghouse” — beware of that dog!

Ah, memories..... Smile

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

ggersh's picture

@JtC Just kidding

EDIT:my dry sense of humor hopefully gets a giggle

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Yes the DHS’s Ministry of Truth is headed by a weird ridiculous person. Please don’t let that distract from the vastly more significant fact that the DHS has a Ministry of Truth.

Caitlin

@JtC you said something a few months ago that sorta sounded like it. I'm glad it's not true; maybe you're just a very conscientious forum administrator. You have so much to be proud of -- enjoy!

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Lurking in the wings is Hillary, like some terrifying bat hanging by her feet in a cavern below the DNC. A bat with theropod instincts. -- Fred Reed https://tinyurl.com/vgvuhcl

@laurel
comment that I just posted to Fishtroller 02, it may help explain why I'm so hard to pin down.

https://caucus99percent.com/comment/431359#comment-431359

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Anja Geitz's picture

@laurel

CStMS Is still here and I'm not sure who the other poster you mentioned is. Might be NCTim who does the Friday OT and who is motorcycling through Europe right now? At any rate, please, please do not feel like you are intruding. I can only speak for myself, (irony aside) but I welcome new voices into the mix. Keeps things fresh and our minds nimble!

You have a voice here too, Laurel, and from what I've seen already, I think I'm going to enjoying hearing more of it.

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

Lily O Lady's picture

@Anja Geitz

He may be dealing with illness at home.

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

karl pearson's picture

@Lily O Lady I think you're right. I followed Steven D over to c99% when he left another blog. Hope he is feeling better and will be back sometime.

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@laurel
"diaspora of morally robust survivors". Nice.

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"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone

lotlizard's picture

@laurel

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Anja Geitz's picture

@lotlizard

Is that who Laurel meant? I was thinking music videos.

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

@lotlizard When Anja said he's currently motorcycling through Europe, it made me so happy to learn that he'd recovered his physical strength to such an amazing extent. I hope all is well with him; for a long time he seemed like the "face" of C99%.

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Lurking in the wings is Hillary, like some terrifying bat hanging by her feet in a cavern below the DNC. A bat with theropod instincts. -- Fred Reed https://tinyurl.com/vgvuhcl

lotlizard's picture

@laurel  
But yes, Steve D did later have to deal with health issues — I share your hope that he has recovered his strength and all is well, or as well as can reasonably be expected.

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Anja Geitz's picture

@laurel

I did hear from Steven a few weeks ago when I posted my first OT. He stopped by in the comments.

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

snoopydawg's picture

@laurel
As to this:

I've loved coming here and reading and still have doubts as to the wisdom of joining in, since there is an element of privacy in what you've created here.

I am glad that you finally added your voice to the blue blog and that you feel welcome here.

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It is not until the tide goes out that you discover who has been swimming naked.

@snoopydawg And thanks to others who commented similarly. It's nice to hear, though I'm really not seeking attention, nor do I enjoy it very much. Please understand. Smile Hopefully, what anyone may have learned from my comment is how you all come across to others and what a good thing you have here.

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Lurking in the wings is Hillary, like some terrifying bat hanging by her feet in a cavern below the DNC. A bat with theropod instincts. -- Fred Reed https://tinyurl.com/vgvuhcl

@laurel

We left daily kos because we didn't like roving gangs of cliques intimidating others into following an ideology or a party line. This is not a closed-minded blog. The day it becomes one, we will all leave. The surest way to get people to leave is to threaten and bully them. The second surest way is to bore them to death with an echo chamber.

Hope you will speak out more often. As someone noted below, who else would say "a diaspora of morally robust survivors".

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Anja Geitz's picture

@dkmich

The surest way to get people to leave is to threaten and bully them. The second surest way is to bore them to death with an echo chamber.

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier