Being smart is to know when to shut up

Oh My

AOC compares border crisis to the Holocaust: Firebrand Democrat says 'fascist' Trump is running 'concentration camps' in new socia social media rant

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said concentration camps are now an institutionalized practice and described Trump's border policy as 'extraordinarily disturbing'
She mentioned 'never again', a term widely understood to refer to the Holocaust
The New York Rep. made comments during a live Q&A on Instagram on Monday

So right again. More live-streaming Instagram please... (watch out for that garbage disposal, it's evil)

Yes, the US has established Concentration Camps, just like the Nazis and we're now exterminating thousands of migrants?

@AOC. Get some staff that has a clue about history.

It can only help.

This is a Concentration Camp...

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mhagle's picture

Woman and naked baby in cage outdoors through day and night . . .

Sounds like it is getting close to concentration camp type stuff.

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10 users have voted.

Marilyn

"Make dirt, not war." eyo

Alligator Ed's picture

@mhagle Propaganda 101: unattributed and strictly anecdotal tale of horror with absolutely no independent confirmation. This is a "case not proven". Charges may be correct but let's have some pictorial OR one the record official verification. Obama cages? Who knows. There was a time when Thom could be trusted with his political opinions' relation to reality. But Them is slowly sliding into the Madcow camp of nonsense. I was almost crying alligator tears when hearing this tale of woe--NOT.

The Dems of course will never investigate the border and eliminate many of their unqualified future voters. AOC will stay in the DC-NY bubble, sipping white wine (to prove she's not a racist), and telling us about gas chambers and death camps. The closest she ever came to a gas chamber is a pizza oven. AOC = POS.

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mhagle's picture

@Alligator Ed

A cousin sent me the link to that video. And I too wish there were photos to back it up.

However, I don't doubt that it is true. Just based on the way the world is right now.

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9 users have voted.

Marilyn

"Make dirt, not war." eyo

Bollox Ref's picture

@Alligator Ed

The guy that did 'Brunch with Bernie' for years...... and then crept off to support HRC?

No thanks.

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12 users have voted.

Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

@Bollox Ref

either, be it Hartmann, Uygur, Pierce, even Chomsky, formerly a near-idol of mine.

In fairness, though, Bernie did endorse Hillary, campaign for her and nominate her at the Democratic National Convention. (I am not among those who believe the theory, of which there is no evidence whatever) that he did all that only because he and/or his family was threatened. It is consistent with his history, dating back to at least his endorsement of Bill Clinton and condemnation of Nader.) https://caucus99percent.com/content/spoiler-candidates-and-protest-votes...)

Even recently, some blue no matter who yahoo poster elsewhere who knew zero about me claimed I should have supported Hillary because of that, inasmuch as I supported Bernie in everything else (he or she assumed with absolutely no evidence or accuracy).

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6 users have voted.

@HenryAWallace of liberals, progressives. Some more so than others. Some more independent minded, quirkier in their thinking. Hartmann for instance, the Russiagate enthusiast, seems to favor tariffs, or something resembling same, and is worried that Trump is scoring major political points with the WWC in his tariff wars and thereby is making himself hard to beat in 2020.

He has also announced he will be supporting the D candidate for prez, regardless of who it is. I find him believable when he says his major goal is to get Trump out of office. Understandable, since we have someone in the WH who is as close to becoming, wanting to be, an American Dictator as we've ever had. A true danger to what's left of our democracy, and the little that's left is still vital to save.

Another lefty, more credible as a journalist, Michael Tracey, who did excellent work debunking Russiagate, said recently that he would support someone like Liz Warren against Trump if she became the nominee. My view as well, a no-brainer. Ditto for a few other center-left/soft lib candidates who could be the nominee -- I will gladly take them over the current fascist mob boss in office. This is in contrast to a few leftier-than-thou types here who are determined to hold out for the purest progressive that the known universe can offer, if s/he can be found. Good luck in that effort, assuming that's really what you want.

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@wokkamile

IMO, allegedly "lesser evil" voting is very much a significant part of what got us in the mess we're in and exactly what ensures this mess will continue to worsen. Been there; done that; realized how utterly self-defeating it is.

Every time Democrats think, "The left has nowhere else to go," the worse they feel safe becoming. By now, I don't even think they need to think that anymore. They'll just keep going further and further right, no matter what, because that is how they benefit most, both individually and as a party. And, if an individual gets voted out of office, no biggie: The same groups that kept his or her political career afloat will ensure him or her a very prosperous, prestigious post-office career, much as Senators Dashcle, Lieberman, Dodd and many others enjoy(ed).

I don't see much of a point debating it, though, Either someone comes to that on his or her own or he or she doesn't.

This is in contrast to a few leftier-than-thou types here who are determined to hold out for the purest progressive that the known universe can offer, if s/he can be found.

As perhaps has not escaped your attention, I vote Green whenever I can, although my vote for President doesn't matter in the electoral college. In fact, the votes of most Americans don't matter in the electoral college because most Americans don't live in purple states. Anyone who does not vote in a purple state, yet doesn't give more thought to his or her vote than simply voting Democratic for President every four years needs a much better voting strategy, IMO.

In any event, also IMO, the kind of rhetoric quoted above from your post doesn't belong on a website that welcomes leftist perspectives. Also, as best I can tell, it's false: I know a number of leftists IRL and through message boards, but I know no one at all holding out for any mythical or near-mythical candidate.

If you want to criticize the position of so-called "left of the left," that is certainly your prerogative. However, I can't take it even a little seriously unless accompanied by an indication of some level of understanding of the actual position.

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11 users have voted.

@HenryAWallace depends heavily on how much we stretch in our definition of "evil". In Dem terms, I would save it for the most right- and corporate-leaning Ds, for the confirmed sellouts for TPTB, the ones who would be just as at home in the GOP, pols who have spent a lifetime in office with far too much to answer and apologize for. Joes Manchin, Lieberman and Biden come to mind.

In the current political context, we might reasonably argue we should include those whose views are so modest and incremental and centrist as to offer only a feathery-light version of Obama -- Amy Klobuchar would seem to fit that bill. Maybe a few others running who don't matter b/c they will not get the nomination. I would put these into the LOTE category mainly b/c after 8 long years of modest moderation from Obama with little to show for it, and 4 nearly of authoritarian rule from T, this country can't afford another 4 yrs of either type. Note here these are pols who rarely stray from the safe center when the perilous times call for bold-positive leadership.

This is all significantly different from the Ivory Soap attitude seen frequently here which lumps the above names with those worthy, truly progressive/liberal candidates who fail to check each and every one of the 36 boxes on the Progressive Purity Test. I distinguish here the harsh, unforgiving, paranoid and hyper cynical attitude which brooks absolutely no dissent from their self-generated Progressive Platform on any issue or sub-issue, from those more reasonable folks who have a strong disagreement or two with a prog/lib candidate but who nonetheless are not thereby willing to completely write them off as corrupt/sellouts/etc.

Bernie I support despite his flaws and failure to speak out for Assange, and his taking a dive on Russiagate and a few foreign leaders in our regime change crosshairs. Disappointing at times, but hardly enough to put him in the LOTE equation. Andrew Yang, another one I back, disappointed me recently with his statement that if he were prez, he wouldn't prosecute Trump for crimes committed. He's apparently trying to reach disaffected T supporters, so understand he doesn't want to unnecessarily ruffle feathers. I would think it better for our sense of justice in this country to see even the former presidents hauled into criminal court if the charges have substance -- no one should be above the law. But Yang apparently believes this is the sort of thing that only 3d world dictatorships do. I strongly disagree, but this doesn't make him evil or a candidate for the LOTE discussion.

Finally, as I'm in CA I will have options come the general for who to vote for as this state will easily give its vote for the person the Dems nominate. Others here will be similarly situated. I may decide to vote Green as I did last time with Jill Stein. But that's if I get a Joe Biden option for the D selection. Otherwise if it's someone in the Liz Warren category or close, I'm likely to vote D. And I won't either automatically vote Green just b/c the candidate has the G next to the name -- as I noted the other day, Howie Hawkins is a bit of an embarrassment.

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@wokkamile

especially with certain types of posters, no matter how strongly I disagree. Been there; done that; left several websites years ago because of the mind-numbing sameness of certain types of posts. However, I will again take explicit exception to your position about this site and leftists who post here.

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snoopydawg's picture

@wokkamile

This is in contrast to a few leftier-than-thou types here who are determined to hold out for the purest progressive that the known universe can offer, if s/he can be found. Good luck in that effort, assuming that's really what you want.

If you want to vote for a democrat then do so, but don't keep telling people here that they are in the wrong for not voting. This passive shit is getting old. You don't listen to others viewpoints on this so why should we listen to yours?

This is a non partisan site which means it endorses no candidate nor does it tell people which websites they can use here.

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America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
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snoopydawg's picture

@wokkamile

126 House Democrats Join Forces With GOP to Hand Trump 'Terrifying' Mass Domestic Spying Powers

Privacy advocates and civil liberties defenders are expressing outrage after the Democratic-controlled U.S. House of Representatives on Tuesday night voted down a bipartisan amendment designed to end, as one group put it, the U.S. government's "most egregious mass surveillance practices" first revealed by National Security Agency whistleblower Edward Snowden.

In a final vote of 253-175, it was 126 Democrats who joined with 127 Republicans to vote against an amendment introduced by Rep Justin Amash (R-Mich.) and Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-Calif.) that would have closed loopholes in Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act that critics charge has allowed the NSA to abuse warrantless surveillance capabilities and target the emails, text messages, and internet activity of U.S. citizens and residents. See the full roll call here.

Among the high-profile Democrats to vote against the bill was Rep. Adam Schiff, chairman of the House Intelligence Committee and a frequent and outspoken critic of President Donald Trump.

Good job, Nancy. Way to whip the votes to make sure that the democrats don't vote to support this massive unconstitutional bill.

Yeah Vote Blue!!!! The resistance will put a stop to any of the horrible things that the mean republicans try to do....

Sigh

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America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

fly over to Poland, take a train or bus to Auschwitz. Get a guided tour of the place. It is fairly well preserved, even if the Germans tried to blow it up... train tracks, lookout towers, wire fences, bunk beds, and, of course, the "showers", that place where people were crammed into chambers, and someone dropped these tablets purchased from the USA manufacturers...and then the ovens.
And when they make the effort that I did, on my own dime, we can have a discussion.

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@on the cusp I think that attitude needs to go.

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@on the cusp

In fairness, however, she mentioned concentration camps and Japanese internment camps, not death camps, not the Holocaust, not Nazis, not Hitler, etc. And, fwie, she is not the only one to make that claim. https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a27813648/concentration-camps-sout...

The claim that she compared the border to the Holocaust is the sensationalizing spin of the Daily Mail's headline. As I have posted here previously, some studies have shown that an alarming number of readers read ONLY headlines, which may explain why so many headlines these days are not supported in full by the story beneath them and/or the facts.

True, the term "concentration camps" is closely associated with Nazi death camps, but the term does have an independent meaning of large numbers of people concentrated into a too small area and held against their will.

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@HenryAWallace is a RW, Tory-enabling UK paper which is barely semi-credible on anything, including its celeb coverage. They have also been peddling the lie that Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party are antisemites. Always good for a sensational tabloid piece bashing the Left.

Again, it's interesting how often I see RW media sites cited favorably in this otherwise fine blog.

As for the use of the term "concentration camps", I think some in the official Holocaust institutional network are far too quick to take offense at the use of language which threatens to overlap with their fiercely-protected territory. While they represent a sensitive and important subject in history, they can be oversensitive and intolerant themselves as others exercise what we call free speech. Probably wiser that they pick their battles a little more selectively.

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ovals49's picture

@wokkamile
by Left vs. Right filters, you may find the viewpoints you are looking for, but they may well be equally fact free as those promulgated from the sources you shun.

Again, it's interesting how often I see RW media sites cited favorably in this otherwise fine blog.

A partisan viewpoint is seemingly inevitable from the “other side” but may be invisible on one’s own “side”. Bits of truth and lies exist wherever you look in today’s world of identity politics. There is no source that I trust completely, and none that I dismiss out of hand. There are good people and valid viewpoints on both “sides” of all political divides. Many who frequent this site understand and appreciate the free range of discussion and mutual respect for those with different perspectives. In other words, this place is no Daily Kos. I’d never go back to that bastion of mob mentality. I hope you learn to enjoy and respect this very special place and the people who read and write here.

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“Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” Albert Einstein

“And an uncomfortable truth is always superior to a comfortable fantasy.” Caitlin Johnstone

@ovals49 but I wasn't unaware there are deeply serious flaws with the MSM across the political spectrum. I've posted numerous times here about Msnbc, Rachel Maddow and their 3-years of Russiagate propaganda. And Russiagate is an issue which is very important, given the damage it has done to US-Russia relations and the way it has made the new cold war very dangerous. Apart from that, Msnbc is clearly an establishment outlet, has been for years, with an overall DNC Establishment bias most of the time.

Otoh, I've also several times favorably cited Tucker Carlson for his consistently good coverage of the above topic, holding proponents feet to the fire when his Msnbc colleagues did not. But apart from that, Fox gives you a steady diet of GOP/Trump propaganda.

As for print and the Daily Mail, I did think it worth noting, as this is not a UK blog and many here might be unfamiliar, that it's a glossy rag of the right which can be relied on to slant news in the light most unfavorable to the lefty they wish to attack. Otoh, the NYT can be relied on in its foreign news particularly to slant things in favor of the DeepState position. Ditto the WaPo.

Generally I think all MSM here and across the Pond have lost all credibility, becoming tools of the entrenched powers and of corporate interests. Not credible, with the occasional worthy exceptions. The places offering the most accurate and honest assessments of the news happen on the independent small sites, Moon of AL, Consortiumnews and similar, which many here probably are familiar with.

I give the latter smaller sites mentioned a presumption of credibility which they've earned over years of honest reporting and analysis. But I give no such presumption to nearly all MSM sites, and among them the degree of skepticism varies importantly. I doubt about everything I see and hear on Fox (except aforementioned TC) including their weather forecast. Do not trust, and always verify. Less harsh skepticism re Msbnc (except R-gate and R-Maddow) and CNN, relatively less skepticism that is, and I still trust their weather forecasts.

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@wokkamile

Daily Mail and Thom Hartmann are heroic. However, I second Oval49's reply to you.

For years, I joined in the source shaming common on Democratic message boards like Kos and Democratic Underground.

Without noticing, I once posted a video that google happened to give me first at the FOX site; and got knee jerk source shamed by several posters, some viciously, even though there was never a suggestion that the video had been doctored. (In fact, it was identical to the same video on other websites.)

I all too slowly came to realize that MSNBC is just as slanted and full of crap and selective omissions as is FOX News. If you want the truth anymore, you must look at all kinds of sources: I know of no major media outlet attempting objectivity.

Moreover, something is either true or false or fails to give all the material info, regardless of where it appears. Attack something on that basis, not on whether it appears in a right-wing or a left-wing (or most likely, establishment) source.

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@HenryAWallace see my reply to the other poster above. Generally my level of skepticism re FOX is much higher than for Msnbc, but both are worthy of distrust. Just to varying degrees and depending on the issue discussed.

As for censorship, I'm against, including of the DK variety of Stalinism. I do believe in including a side note about a source when it's one which might not usually be seen as credible or be unfamiliar to many, as with the Daily Mail.

(speaking of responding on the facts, I recall twice asking you to give your cite for your assertion on several occasions that HRC a few yrs ago had come out in favor of overturning Roe v Wade, or perhaps calling for a Con Amendment to do same. Maybe I missed your response. Did you ever find the cite? It would have been quite a splash in the political news, yet I never heard of such controversy, and I follow the news rather closely. No, I don't consider myself such a Hillary expert that I know everything she's said. Just asking politely ...)

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@wokkamile

to my comments at least once daily. However, I check only the first page of my comments, maybe the second. So, if you asked well after I posted, I would likely have missed your request(s?).

In any event, what I believe I said about Hillary and Roe v. Wade was along the lines that she said she would be willing to discuss or entertain a Constitutional amendment to overrule the decision, provided the health of the mother was taken into account. I don't know which posts of mine you are referring to, but that is my usual way of putting it. Sometimes, I add this was during the 2016 Democratic primary and after Planned Parenthood made its first ever primary endorsement (Hillary over Bernie); sometimes I don't.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/09/29/hillary_clinton_i_cou...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/12511258371

Please see also https://slate.com/technology/2005/01/hillary-clinton-s-anti-abortion-str...

(A quick google almost always yields an answer quicker than waiting on another poster.)

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5 users have voted.

@wokkamile

discussed. However, Ovals49's reply to you was more than indicated by your schooling me that the Daily Mail is a right wing source. Candidly, I got more of that type of comment at websites I've left than I care to remember and was surprised to see it again here.

Frankly, I've never watched FOX News. However, MSNBC's 2016 Democratic primary reporting could not have been more dishonest, nor more designed to help Hillary win the primary and also to help her with her pied piper strategy. I watched during the primary, just to see what they were up to and how. Since then, I've found no reason to watch MSNBC, although I am sometimes exposed to it through no fault of my own.

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snoopydawg's picture

concentration camps. This is what it was called when we did it to Japanese Americans

"Concentration camps are considered by experts as 'the mass detention of civilians without trial.' And that's exactly what this administration is doing."

"The Holocaust did not begin with the murder of six million Jews," writer Bess Kalb tweeted in response to Cheney. "It began with the same dehumanization, deportation, and internment we see today. You, sickeningly, invoke the Holocaust to minimize their suffering. Shame."

Does it matter what the camps are called? Detention or concentration what immigrants are going through should disgust everyone no matter your views on immigration. Recently 900 people were packed into a room designed to hold 125. People are being held under freeway overpasses without any type of furniture. Just threw down some blankets and maybe some padding for them.

Dehumanizing people is just the first step towards something worse. And don't forget that there is legislation in place to do that to any American who is considered a threat. Who decides what a threat is?

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20 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

@snoopydawg discussion on this with friends. Yup, demonization and dehumanization start it, scapegoating in simple terms. I'm going to re read Origins of Totalitarianism by Hannah Arendt. It's all there, the lead up, the dismissal of its importance, the denial. America today but the tendencies aren't new, not at all.

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snoopydawg's picture

@lizzyh7

I don't know much about Arendt. Where do your friends stand on this?

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America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

@snoopydawg

Johanna "Hannah" Cohn Arendt (/ˈɛərənt, ˈɑːr-/; German: [ˈaːʁənt];[11] Hannah Arendt Bluecher; 14 October 1906 – 4 December 1975) was a German-American philosopher and political theorist. Her many books and articles on topics ranging from totalitarianism to epistemology have had a lasting influence on political theory. Arendt is widely considered one of the most important political philosophers of the twentieth century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannah_Arendt

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Centaurea's picture

@snoopydawg @snoopydawg
grooming the American populace to accept the dehumanization of other people, to scapegoat them, and to blame them for causing their own mistreatment, rather than looking at our own behavior, beliefs, and shortcomings.

In general, we're being brainwashed and groomed to turn away and go into denial, rather than seeing what's happening and looking honestly and clearly at ourselves and what we have created (and continue to create) either directly or by our failure to act.

That's what happened in Germany in the 1930s, and we seem to be well on our way to it now.

We're already going along with the killing of American people of color by militarized law enforcement. We seem to be fine with the US's slaughter of innocent people around the globe, and the destruction of their cities, lands and cultures. We're even fine with condemning our fellow Americans to "death by lack of health insurance".

(I'm using "we" in the collective sense here, and not referring to anyone in particular who may be reading this.)

Dehumanizing people is just the first step towards something worse.

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17 users have voted.

"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi

"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone

snoopydawg's picture

@Centaurea

In general, we're being brainwashed and groomed to turn away and go into denial,

We have been brainwashed into believing that our country only goes overseas to do good things for people who are suffering while in reality we actually causing it or making it worse. This country doesn't give a damn about people's suffering or they wouldn't have been on its path for so long.

And we're being groomed to see immigrants as less than us because of where they are coming from. People say that they should just stay put and make their country better like they can fight back against people we support. Hell we can't stop our police from killing our friends and neighbors.

People wondered why the German people sat back and let Hitler happen and put people in camps, but we were doing the same thing to Japanese Americans. We of course didn't kill them, but the living conditions were pretty horrible. Just some tents or wooden barracks that were setup quickly.

Dehumanizing and groomed..

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America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

Centaurea's picture

@snoopydawg we stole the Japanese-American internees' possessions. Their homes, wealth, businesses, careers, and for the young ones, their childhood ... gone.

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"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi

"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone

snoopydawg's picture

@Centaurea

A phrase jumped out at her, carved atop a gray stone cube, "World War II Concentration Camp

"Both national and U.S. citizens alike were abruptly, and without justification, incarcerated in a concentration camp at this location," the inscription said, noting that internees' descendants placed it there in 1985, "as a reminder that the injustices and humiliations suffered here as a result of hysteria, racism and discrimination never happen again."

."

They left camp with $25 to return to their broken lives after their homes and businesses were stolen from them as you said.

This is worth a read. When the Japanese Americans were sent to the camps the kids at least weren't separated from their parents like what is happening now. Kids are being reunited with their parents and suffering from PTSD. Stolen childhoods...

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12 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

@Centaurea

internments was Earl Warren, in his capacity as Attorney General of California. He was later a Republican candidate for V.P. and, still later, the most left Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States in US history. Or perhaps just the most fair minded? Well, nineteenth and twentieth centuries anyway. I haven't read many eighteenth century SCOTUS opinions, if any.

Fun fact. Our national pack rat, the Smithsonian, houses Chief Justice Marshall's judicial robes (but is reluctant to get them out of storage lest the fabric disintegrate).

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Centaurea's picture

@HenryAWallace the Warren Commission. That was the committee set up by LBJ by means of an Executive Order, with the remit to study the assassination of JFK and decide whodunnit.

Earl Warren's commission declared that Lee Harvey Oswald was the perpetrator and that he acted alone, without consulting or working with anyone else. They also declared that Jack Ruby was the assassin of Lee Harvey Oswald, likewise acting alone.

Interestingly, it was during that time in history that the CIA coined the pejorative term "conspiracy theory" to deride and marginalize anyone suggesting an alternative scenario contrary to what TPTB says is true.

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3 users have voted.

"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi

"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone

Dawn's Meta's picture

@Centaurea @Centaurea Japanese was sordid, to say the least. A brief history:
During settlement of the valley, there were large ancient Fir forests. The European immigrants hired Chinese to cut them and build railroads and process wood at the many local mills. Then the government ran the Chinese out. In their stead Japanese came to carry on menial work.

They were often paid in "stumpland" never thinking that it had any value. The enterprising Japanese, took out the stumps and turned that land into Apple orchards making it once again valuable land.

When the internment took place, the many Japanese were sent to mostly Tule Lake in northern California. Many did not return. Some that did knew that their previous farmsteads were occupied by European settlers and their families. Some would go to the household hoping to retrieve just a piece of furniture or momento from home. Even though they could clearly see family possesions from the front doors they were denied even those things.

Most moved away and today there are only a few Japanese families. Many people our age are children of those squatters and know it. The National Guard was called in to settle the locals down and to stop the harassment of Japanese people. One of the few places in the US.

A good book written about the Yasui family is often required reading in state schools.
Stubborn Twig

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A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.

Consider helping by donating using the button in the upper left hand corner. Thank you.

janis b's picture

@Dawn's Meta

Really interesting, and life-affirming history.

"How resistance overcame hate in Hood River"

They did call, and the League did help, in very practical ways. When shopkeepers refused to sell to Japanese-American customers, League members collected shopping lists and did errands on their behalf. When fruit packers refused to buy from Japanese-American orchardists, League members picked up their produce and took it to market themselves. They responded to racism as if it were a death in the family, making sure the bereaved were fed, warmed and steadily kept company.

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Dawn's Meta's picture

@janis b and some of the people mentioned in the newstory, personally. Really a fairly small and insulated community.

The Endows are still in the valley. Randy Kiyokawa owns and operates a successful orchard and fruit stand business.
Kiyokawa Family Orchards

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A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.

Consider helping by donating using the button in the upper left hand corner. Thank you.

janis b's picture

@Dawn's Meta

and have for more than a hundred years.

I bet it would be as enjoyable to do apple tastings there, as it is wine tastings in Oregon.

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3 users have voted.
Dawn's Meta's picture

@janis b @janis b @janis b a trip to the farm. Honey Crisp Apple, sliced and dipped into caramel sauce: nothing better.

The first time I saw a full moon shining on thousands of acres of Pear Blossoms, they were shimmering. Mt. Hood with snow was clearly visible in the moonlight over the valley. I was dumbfounded.

https://www.123rf.com/photo_19432083_mt-hood-from-fruit-orchards-in-hood...

https://hoodriverfruitloop.com/

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3 users have voted.

A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.

Consider helping by donating using the button in the upper left hand corner. Thank you.

are in concentration camps is beyond helping.

Sorry to disabuse you.

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13 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

EdMass's picture

@UntimelyRippd

Your country and your elected representatives (yes you voted for them , i assume) have established sites of torture and extermination? You actually believe this? Catch and release? Ever heard of it?

I know what has happened. The CIA and the FBI and Border Patrol has organized night time raids into Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador. Their goal is to kidnap citizens of those countries. Expedite them to Concentration Camps in Texas and Arizona and then to proceed to torture and kill them, especially the children, so they won't invade our border anymore.

You see how ridiculous your position is, cause that is your and AOC's implication.

Not buying it. I still believe in the inherent morality of this Nation. After, of course one gets by the fng politicians.

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1 user has voted.

Prof: Nancy! I’m going to Greece!
Nancy: And swim the English Channel?
Prof: No. No. To ancient Greece where burning Sapho stood beside the wine dark sea. Wa de do da! Nancy, I’ve invented a time machine!

Firesign Theater

Stop the War!

@EdMass
argue with something I said, and I might take the time to defend my position.

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2 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

snoopydawg's picture

but people ignored it just like they ignored his war crimes. Obama put immigrants in the same detention center that held Japanese Americans, but now that Trump is doing it they are outraged.

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13 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

@snoopydawg

did many of the things for which Democrats criticize Republican Presidents. (And vice versa, of course.) That is the sick joke of a healthy portion, but not all, of the Trump hysteria.

Of course, that Republican Presidents did it first--a common them on Stewart's Daily Show during the Obama administration--or vice versa doesn't make it right for any President to do. And, to my great disappointment, that was rarely, if ever, pointed out.

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8 users have voted.
EdMass's picture

@snoopydawg
Where prople are held for a month or so and released into the country.

Doesn't seem to be a life ending torturous concentration camp.

So blessed FDR is off limits? We have to back to the Boer War to defend the statement

Face it. She is not well educated in history nor are any of her staff.

You do know, it's all about AOC staying front and center in the media, right?

While Nancy has no clue what to do...

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1 user has voted.

Prof: Nancy! I’m going to Greece!
Nancy: And swim the English Channel?
Prof: No. No. To ancient Greece where burning Sapho stood beside the wine dark sea. Wa de do da! Nancy, I’ve invented a time machine!

Firesign Theater

Stop the War!

snoopydawg's picture

@EdMass

and you will see that Trump is not releasing those he catches. Immigrants are being held in detention until their trials come up. This is the law Trump changed from releasing people into the country with a court date.

"Concentration camps are considered by experts as 'the mass detention of civilians without trial.' And that's exactly what this administration is doing."

As for FDR being off limits here I find this a cop out and another holdover from ToP where no one can criticize a D president. Why did he only put Japanese Americans in the camps when we were also at war with Germany?

You do know, it's all about AOC staying front and center in the media, right?

I don't support AOC or any democrat or republican, but when someone says that holding people in abhorrent conditions is wrong I will agree with them.

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3 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

EdMass's picture

@snoopydawg

The 9th circuit has regularly ruled against Admin policy.

Catch and Release is the Law.

Come on, you read the news.

Border Patrol struggles with migrant surge, lacks strategy

EL PASO, Texas, May 28 (UPI) -- A continuing migrant surge on the southern border has overwhelmed detention facilities and left the U.S. Border Patrol scrambling to devise strategies about how to release asylum seekers.

As it seeks an elusive solution, the agency confronts a deteriorating situation, local officials, migrant advocates and policy analysts said.

"Our immigration system is full, and we are well beyond our capacity at every stage of the process," Kevin McAleenan, acting secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, testified to a House committee last week.

In March and April, more than 200,000 migrants crossed the southern border illegally, many turning themselves in to the Border Patrol as asylum seekers. More than two-thirds of the arrivals crossed as unaccompanied children or adults traveling with children -- populations that cannot lawfully be placed for long periods in migrant detention facilities.

You wrote:

Trump is not releasing those he catches

Nope. Not correct.

You need me to Google for you how 1,000s are being bussed/flown off the Border to other states/cities -- every day and every week?

Also the "detention centers " be it building or tent are all air conditioned, yes the tents are air conditioned. Say thank you to the US military. The migrants receive 3 meals a day, have access to new clothes, lavatories and showers. The children are provided both outside activities and inside crafts, etc. Yeah, it's so much worse than Guatemala where we lived in dilapidated shacks...As AOC would say we're all Fng Nazis now?

Oh, FDR also rounded up German Americans threw them into detention with captured German soldiers and called them all "Prisoners of War". History's a bitch, yes?

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2 users have voted.

Prof: Nancy! I’m going to Greece!
Nancy: And swim the English Channel?
Prof: No. No. To ancient Greece where burning Sapho stood beside the wine dark sea. Wa de do da! Nancy, I’ve invented a time machine!

Firesign Theater

Stop the War!

mimi's picture

with something silly.

Being smart is to know when to shut up

Ed Mass, I just wanted to mention that it is an African proverb to say:

A smart woman knows when to shut up

Shutting up now, because I wanna be a smart woman.

Sigh.

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4 users have voted.

Ich schreibe was mir paßt - in memory of Steve Biko

Death camps. A death camp is a subset of concentration camps. They are both. Auschwitz was a death camp.
Bainbridge Island held Japanese citizens in a concentration camp.

AOC is right.

Why are you against her?

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8 users have voted.

@Battle of Blair Mountain

BTW, while I am not against, AOC, I am quite skeptical. I simply prefer accuracy and fairness to their alternatives, whether or not I am a supporter of the person involved.

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7 users have voted.
Unabashed Liberal's picture

@HenryAWallace @HenryAWallace @HenryAWallace

that to 'disagree' with a politician's words or opinions, doesn't mean that someone is "against him/her." (Or, holds animus toward them.)

I also value accuracy, especially, over exaggeration and/or demagoguery.

(assuming that was what you meant)

PleasantryMollie

“Dogs have given us their absolute all. We are the center of their universe. We are the focus of their love and faith and trust. They serve us in return for scraps. It is without a doubt the best deal man has ever made.
~~Roger Caras

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4 users have voted.

Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

@Unabashed Liberal

If I think it fair, I criticize people I like, love or near-idolize, as well as defend people I dislike. When it comes to politicians, I confess that I am less likely to criticize the ones I like during a heated election season. I won't say something I don't believe, but I may keep my trap shut--hard as that is for me.

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5 users have voted.
Unabashed Liberal's picture

@HenryAWallace

my 'gig' is almost exclusively policy. So, mostly, my comments have to do with lawmakers 'proposals'--not them, personally.

Thinking about including a note, or disclaimer in my signature line, to highlight that point. (in hopes that it would avoid misunderstandings) At one time, I included a similar disclaimer in my sig line at DKos, but, 'retired' it after the 2016 election cycle. Later, just quit posting there, altogether.

Mollie

“Dogs have given us their absolute all. We are the center of their universe. We are the focus of their love and faith and trust. They serve us in return for scraps. It is without a doubt the best deal man has ever made.
~~Roger Caras

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4 users have voted.

Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

@Unabashed Liberal

almost nothing to do with them personally. The "almost" except is for personal qualities like integrity, meaning, for example, no gap between what the politician tells the public to get votes and what the politician actually intends at the time to do after election.

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3 users have voted.
Unabashed Liberal's picture

@HenryAWallace

reply, started to go back and edit it, since, occasionally, I might remark on a feature, or characteristic of a politician. But, it's relatively rare (that I do so).

Like in the case of FSC and Liz Warren--the timbre of both their voices, grates/grated on me something awful! I literally feel the need to turn them off, unless, (in Warren's case) I really think I need to listen to her policy proposal(s).

But, normally, I don't give jack about politicans' ways. Exceptions would be: if I catch them in a bald-faced lie. Then, I write them off. Period.

Obviously, if I found that they've committed a crime(s), are shown to be batterers, etc.--any of those things would also be reasonable grounds to give them the ol' heave-ho.

Mollie

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4 users have voted.

Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

EdMass's picture

@Battle of Blair Mountain

Let's parse language.

Death camps. A death camp is a subset of concentration camps. They are both. Auschwitz was a death camp.

Wait, didn't deaths occur at Concentration Camps across of Europe? It was only at Auschwitz, where these things that people did to other people occurred? (Check Wiki History, Holocaust if you have the time) Were they all in a special "subsection" of the Camps where the subset of the guilty jewish people were killed? All the others were achieving "Freedom through Work". Unbelievable..

It is obvious that she meant to refer to Nazi concentration camps. "Never Again"? Yeah said that too. But no. What about the Boer War? What about FDR and the Japanese? What about just admit you f'd up? Try that on for size.

A subset of a mollusk could be a bivalve but it may not be or maybe they always are? ...please refer to Wiki for clarification. Sheesh

She's young and stupid and enamored of her media celebrity.

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0 users have voted.

Prof: Nancy! I’m going to Greece!
Nancy: And swim the English Channel?
Prof: No. No. To ancient Greece where burning Sapho stood beside the wine dark sea. Wa de do da! Nancy, I’ve invented a time machine!

Firesign Theater

Stop the War!

@EdMass She nailed it. They are concentration camps. YOU are dancing on the head of a pin. Also, dismissively referring to her as young and stupid when she's obviously not stupid only reflects poorly on your character.

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3 users have voted.
The Aspie Corner's picture

And she will keep doing it as part of her job in the capitalist politboro.

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2 users have voted.

Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.

Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.

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3 users have voted.

for conflating the two terms knowingly and willfully. Honestly, you should just leave for being so intellectually dishonest and if this were my place, you'd be gone. JtC is much nicer than I, however and I would know, having him to thank for allowing me to remain here.

https://theintercept.com/2019/06/21/aoc-concentration-camps-immigration/

“I think he (Kevin McCarthy - but it might as well be EdMass) should apologize for the deliberate conflation and attack on these terms. I think he should apologize for the conditions that he’s supporting on the border,” Ocasio-Cortez said on Capitol Hill. “He should apologize for his support for widespread human rights abuses — that’s what he should apologize for, and until he stops supporting the absolute dehumanizing conditions on our border, I will not apologize for holding him to account for it.”

-AOC

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1 user has voted.