MSM: Bernie can't win, so please just ignore all the polls that say otherwise

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If only Bernie Sanders was a corporate Democrat, the media narrative would be entirely different.

A nationwide Fox News poll released Sunday shows President Donald Trump trailing Senator Bernie Sanders, 49 percent to 40 percent among all registered voters nationwide.

The Fox poll also showed Biden leading Trump by 49 percent to 39 percent. Also beating Trump in the poll were Senators Elizabeth Warren (43%-41%) and Kamala Harris (42%-41%), and Mayor Pete Buttigieg (41%-40%) of South Bend, Indiana.

This would be GREAT news for any establishment candidate.
Guess how it is actually reported.

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Bernie is only leading a sitting president by 9 to 11 points in the polls.
So he may as well throw in the towel now. It's hopeless.
That's what candidates normally do when they are winning by double-digits, right?
Staying in the race will only prove that he's sexist.

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The Aspie Corner's picture

He sold out when he refused to stand up to Billary, and he's doing it now by going through with this charade, knowing full well they're going to fuck us again.

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8 users have voted.

Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.

Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.

@The Aspie Corner
Or wait. They only pretend to hate him.
Must be that 11th dimensional chess that I've heard about.

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26 users have voted.
The Aspie Corner's picture

@gjohnsit So why keep playing along? Why not just skip a step and admit that either way, the Iron Fist of Capital wins? I think you liberals get off on this crap. Seriously.

Even if Sanders becomes president (fat chance), the imperialism will continue. Capitalists will continue to loot us through more tax scams under Newspeak names like Stimulus and Reinvestment. None of Sanders' nominations for any post will see the light of day. The pigs will go to the Supreme Court to nullify any policy that does pass. Remember when they killed Medicaid expansion? No pigs will be punished in any meaningful way for the crimes they've committed over the decades, both financial and otherwise.

Even if he gets elected, it's business as usual. You know it. I know it. He knows it. They know it. So why keep on with the charade?

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13 users have voted.

Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.

Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.

@The Aspie Corner
but that doesn't mean that electing Bernie wouldn't have an effect.

Even if he gets elected, it's business as usual. You know it. I know it. He knows it. They know it. So why keep on with the charade?

Because electing Bernie would change expectations.
And that is HUGE!
The oligarchs only win if the people allow them to win.

Rise like Lions after slumber
In unvanquishable number–
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you–
Ye are many — they are few.

- “Mask of Anarchy”, Percy Shelley

There's a reason why Jeremy Corbyn keeps quoting from this poem.

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@gjohnsit

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The Aspie Corner's picture

@gjohnsit Nobody got prosecuted. Nothing changed. Business went on as usual. AOC? Same thing. She now plays the perfect controlled opposition to the pigs. Bernie will do the same.

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6 users have voted.

Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.

Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.

@The Aspie Corner
Obama had no track record of left-wing ideology.
I know that I didn't expect much from him. He was only 1 degree left of Clinton.

Bernie is a New Deal Democrat to his core.

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30 users have voted.

@gjohnsit
The only place he seriously disappointed me was his utter incompetence at challenging the Republicans' seditious undermining of the executive's prerogatives to govern (including his failure to stand up and lead the party during the midterms). Or perhaps it was utter uninterest. It was definitely something utter.

I would have liked prosecutions, but I certainly didn't expect them.

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14 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

snoopydawg's picture

@UntimelyRippd

He is out on the money circuit still pushing bipartisanship. And he is now admitting that capitalism has left too many people behind, but he is only now seeing that.

Obama admits bipartisan capitalist ‘Washington Consensus’ fueled far-right and multiplied inequality

Former US President Barack Obama admitted that the neoliberal capitalist policies he and his predecessors supported fostered the rise of the far-right and grossly exacerbated inequality.

Obama conceded that the Washington Consensus, the right-wing neoliberal economics that has been embraced by every US president since Ronald Reagan, led to a massive increase in inequality.

Even while Obama continued to defend these pro-corporate policies, he confessed that they left behind large numbers of working-class people across the world, in areas that were hit hard by capitalist globalization. This led to rising unemployment and reduced living standards, Obama said, which in turn fostered the growth of right-wing xenophobic nationalist politics.

BARACK OBAMA: “When it comes to the economy, part of what happens is that the globalization that — you know you actually had a consensus between Bill Clinton, George H. W. Bush, George W. Bush, and certainly elements of my administration, and we wanted to get the Trans-Pacific Partnership done for example, TPP. The consensus around things like free trade didn’t fully address the fact that — although net-net, the whole world was doing better because of globalization, and the internet, and global supply chains — there were folks who whose pantries were being closed and suddenly found themselves to be redundant workers.

“And you suddenly had a winner-take-all economy, where, back in 1960, maybe the CEO makes 10 times more than the guy on the assembly line; now suddenly it’s 200 times, or 300 times. And the capacity of nation states to regulate global capital so that at least they have some control where they say, you know what, let’s speed things up, slow things down; let’s ease the transition for communities that are being hurt by, whether it’s automation or foreign competition; that becomes harder to do, because everybody’s just worrying about what their quarterly reports are going to look like on Wall Street.

In his speech, Obama stressed the importance of bipartisanism and finding common cause with Republicans.

At one point, he even boasted of having increased fossil fuel production and made the United States into the largest oil producer. And even while Obama acknowledged that the neoliberal capitalist policies that both he and his predecessors oversaw devastated the working class and poured gasoline on the fire of right-wing extremism, at the same time, he also joked that corporate executives on Wall Street should be thanking him for helping them make so much money.

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Smug B*stard! He got his so it's all good. Right folks?

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27 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

Pluto's Republic's picture

@snoopydawg

....Democratic Party prick that he is.

Obama acknowledged that the neoliberal capitalist policies that he ... oversaw devastated the working class and poured gasoline on the fire of right-wing extremism.... He joked that corporate executives [and] Wall Street should be thanking him for helping them make so much money.

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The purpose of a writer is to keep civilization from destroying itself.
– Albert Camus
snoopydawg's picture

@Pluto's Republic

just shows his contempt for the working class. The photo says a lot doesn't it? He's saying that he didn't notice that just because the numbers looked good lots of people were still struggling and being left behind. Sure, Barry. You didn't see how the banks were still screwing people while they were getting rich!

Prick works too.

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21 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

Pluto's Republic's picture

@snoopydawg

z.WhyHeWon.jpg

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18 users have voted.

The purpose of a writer is to keep civilization from destroying itself.
– Albert Camus

@snoopydawg

describing him for the vile human parasite he is. Of all the Presidents we've had including Trump, Obama is top of the dung pile.

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4 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

@snoopydawg

considers himself a moderate, 1980s Republican? You remember the 1980s, right? When "transformational" Reagan was President for eight years?

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3 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@gjohnsit

Bernie is a New Deal Democrat to his core.

I beg to differ that Bernie is something other than a democrat when it comes to foreign policy. He says that Madura should allow free and open voting even though the election in Venezuela was much more fair than the primary Bernie took part in. Plus he says that Russia did interfere with the election and hinted at Putin having too much control over Trump. He is helping the democrats push Why has he signed on to this propaganda crap? This two year psyops pretty much only has one thing as its goal and that is to manufacture consent for war with Russia. Trump is moving 1,000 troops from Germany to Poland and is putting a missile defense system in place there.

After Obama's coup in Ukraine the US and NATO have made some very dangerous moves that are putting us all in danger. The nuclear clock is closer to midnight than any other time in history. I haven't heard Bernie say anything about this. He still supports that F-35 turkey, but maybe that is just so people in Vermont can have jobs. But continuing to support something that can barely fly is taking money from much needed programs for us. It great to hear Bernie saying that he will cut the military budget in half, but seriously what are the chances of that happening?

Then of course there are the super delegates who are free to support whomever they want and then there's the DHS and others in charge of the voting machines that everyone knows are easily hacked.

So back to your question about why the PTB seem to be freaked out about Bernie I believe that yes it's just for show. I'm betting that either ByeDone gets the nod or that Herheinous is going to be slipped in at the convention. The only reason that 22 people have gotten in the DNC clown car is to make sure that no one wins the first round.

My $.05 adjusted for inflation...

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12 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

gulfgal98's picture

@snoopydawg with this assessment. Perhaps I have become way to jaded as a result of 2016.

I have been predicting this part for some time.

So back to your question about why the PTB seem to be freaked out about Bernie I believe that yes it's just for show. I'm betting that either ByeDone gets the nod or that Herheinous is going to be slipped in at the convention. The only reason that 22 people have gotten in the DNC clown car is to make sure that no one wins the first round.

But I also believe that gjohnsit has a great point with this.

Because electing Bernie would change expectations.
And that is HUGE!
The oligarchs only win if the people allow them to win.

The problem I have with the last sentence is that WE the people have been allowing the oligarchy to continue to enslave us, more and more each day. The bottom line is that it is not one politician who can save us and the country, but it is up to us to do so. And based upon my own anecdotal personal experiences, we have not yet reached that tipping point. I really do not know how much more it will take or if we ever will.

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8 users have voted.

"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West

"There is no instance of a nation benefitting from prolonged warfare." Sun Tzu

"Propaganda is one hell of a drug." Abby Martin

@gulfgal98
Then it's 50-50 if we get reform or goose stepping.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness

There are no more FDRs, and there is no more middle ground.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

@TheOtherMaven
Today's kids have no idea what it was like. I reminded my grandson's who were despondent over having no work, of their maternal grandfather who was one of the hobos "riding the rails" and dodging railroad cops, wandering the country looking for work.

Fifteen years ago I played a CD of "Grapes of Wrath" starring Henry Fonda. They were bewildered why Joad family had to leave the farm and why they were turned away from California. I should put it on USB sticks and send it to them again. I think now they will understand better.

P.S. Middle grandson was recently fired from Wal-mart after giving his all to the company and their promises of promotion. His sin? Taking nine days (unpaid) sick leave in one year. He's devastated. Like learning your lover is a prostitute that's been lying to you.

A good boy (27) but sheltered. He never sat at the dinner table with men who had suffered the scorching blast of the Depression.

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@The Aspie Corner Remember the embrace the suck essay? Here's another idea.

You know powerless. This comment screams "I'm powerless!". Accept it, embrace it. Look for what power you do have. Then find a way to use it instead of raging against what you, personally, can't change. The only thing that comes from rage is more rage. It's a really dark, deep hole to go down.

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15 users have voted.
The Aspie Corner's picture

@vtcc73 @vtcc73 Any time I try to do anything, it's always the same. "Nope. You can't do that. Can't make money off of it. We want more experience. More pieces of paper. More pieces of plastic."

Or here's a personal favorite: "Work hard at this and there's a permanent job in it for you" to "Oh, I'm sorry, there were never any positions".

Try living in a shithole state like Flawer'Duh and you'd understand. Unless you already have money or powerful connections, you aren't going anywhere. You aren't doing a damn thing.

You know why I feel this way? Constant disappointment. No matter how much work, or time, or money I throw at anything or how hard I try to make things better in ANY way, no one gives a shit.

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6 users have voted.

Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.

Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.

@The Aspie Corner

Try living in a shithole state like Flawer'Duh and you'd understand.

Florida has the absolute worst Dems.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

@gjohnsit

Try living in a shithole state like Flawer'Duh and you'd understand.

Florida has [some of] the absolute worst

..... people.

The "Politics Of Mean" has ruled Florida via both political parties and for a very long time. Much longer than Aspie's been alive (or any of the rest of us, for that matter).

Bad

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"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

@The Aspie Corner My son is an aspie. He's with us in Cuenca. He was working as tech support for an Apple vendor on IOS and Mac products. Shit pay, no real benefits, unable to live without roommates in a shithole. He's really smart and what he's overcome to get a degree and learn how to do tech support is astonishing. He didn't do it alone. We saw no reason to leave him alone in the shithole that used to be the beacon to people wanting to be free everywhere. Land of the free, home of the brave has become a poo flinging monkey house full of the ignorant, intolerant, and belligerent. People who can't get a head above water but want someone to blame it on as long as they don't have to take any responsibility. We didn't want that to be him.

There was a time when I thought my success in life was my doing. Anyone could do what I did if they worked so hard. Anyone who failed to thrive or simply failed was at fault. I was told if you worked hard, studied hard, and played by the rules you would succeed. What a crock of shit! It's not correct and never has been. Yes, my parents never had a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out when I was young but I made out OK as did my siblings. It wasn't our fault. It took a long while to understand that.

The cold reality is that you can be incredibly smart, hardworking, educated, self starting, and a whole bag of good qualities and not thrive in life. Compost happens. The "truth" held by so many Americans isn't. The truth is that if you don't study hard, work hard, and keep on keeping on you won't amount to anything. Unless, of course, you're born to parents who can give you $400 million to make up for being an insufferable asshole who will screw over anyone, lie, cheat, and steal without any remorse.

So, yeah, you work hard trying to better your lot in life. It hasn't worked out so well so far. It may never work out like you want. It almost certainly won't if you quit trying. Looking for someone or something to blame for your lot in life won't change it. You won't change the system in your lifetime. You are wasting a lot of energy and wrecking any chance of a happy existence by raging at what must be endured. You only have the power to change yourself.

You want an amazing change in perspective then you need to spend some time with our locals. The national average monthly income is about $350. They work their asses off, they have a shitload of fun with their friends and family, and they work together for their collective good. I've not heard a single complaint from anyone here except foreign transplants and visitors. It's a population that is humble, hard working, proud, and happy by choice. They vote and they protest when it's appropriate. There are areas where people have to walk for two days to get to a polling place. Man, do we have a lot to learn from them. Tranquilo, no preocupaciones amigo.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

@vtcc73

The cold reality is that you can be incredibly smart, hardworking, educated, self starting, and a whole bag of good qualities and not thrive in life.

There's a lot to be said for being in the right place. Location can change everything. I know that it did in my case. The world opened up for me when I moved to the right place. Migration is a constant with humans. My parents were immigrant children. They hit the industrial cycle at just the right time and it worked for them. They didn't know that during leans times, the US leaders would revert to sociopaths who refused to protect citizens between economic cycles. No accommodation is made; lives are shattered. The savage way the country began sharply defines the American culture. There is no question in my mind that my parents would leave the US if they could see it now. They would never settle for this.

You won't change the system in your lifetime. You are wasting a lot of energy and wrecking any chance of a happy existence by raging at what must be endured. You only have the power to change yourself.

So true. Lives are wasted trying to change the system, especially on this compromised soil. There is a larger contingent of people who love it just the way it is.

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8 users have voted.

The purpose of a writer is to keep civilization from destroying itself.
– Albert Camus

@Pluto's Republic for him as a person. He isn't working. It's even less worth his time than nit was in the states. We're fortunate that the cost of living is so low and that we've done well enough that he doesn't need to work. He is unlikely to ever need to unless something dramatic changes. No chance of that, right?

The future will be what it is. We have no control other than through how we act right now in this moment. String enough of them together and there's a chance for a brighter future. That's alive here. In Cuenca, anyway, but it's an oasis in a country that is becoming more like the rest of the crazy world. Those with the money and power have more influence so what they want will be the corrupter. We're OK and should be fine. We also have the ability to change course if things turn for the worse we can bail. My focus is a secure, happy life for my wife and son. I'll do whatever I have to do. This is the only thing I have any influence. It's within my power so that's where I have to focus. Worrying about what has happened, what may happen, and lamenting the state of the world is a worthless endeavor. We can only try to be the best people we can be and help others where we can.

Tulsi looks promising is all I'll commit to saying. I'm encouraged by what I see and hear of her and her positions. I have concerns and doubts that will have to be worked through over time. For now Bernie is ahead in my mind but I'm completely open to what comes.

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4 users have voted.

@vtcc73 @vtcc73

We had friends. Dad was a lawyer, and Mom was a doctor. Their son had some limitations and was a great kid. He went to Ecuador in a foreign exchange program and stayed with a wealthy, respected, and established Ecuadorian family. His son loved it so much, he went back there to live. Over a year or two, he established a home, got a car, and was building a life there.

Long story short, the son of the wealthy family ended up killing his son and stole his house and his car, everything. I don't know how many trips and how much money dad spent trying to get justice for his son. The rich family and the corrupt system put obstacle after obstacle, postponement after postponement in dad's way until he just had to walk away. They also threatened his daughter in NY.

https://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/steve_duin/2010/05/no_us_actio...

Apparently there was this follow up article, I didn't see. It may be accurate, but somehow I recall that the murderer really spent no time in jail. He might have been convicted but was soon set free.
https://www.oregonlive.com/gresham/2011/06/max_chamberlins_family_finds_...

Whatever you do, make sure everything you do for him is in a trust.

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5 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

@dkmich Every society has its sociopaths and scumbags. I've noticed during a long life that wealth especially born-to wealth generates a disproportionate number of them. Precautions are always a prudent thing.

At some point my son will be on his own. He's smart, frugal, and more capable than he seems at times. He should be prepared by the time he has to take the reins of his life. If not it's not because we haven't tried to prepare him. That's on him.

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earthling1's picture

@vtcc73
My family came from Europe in the mid 1800s and migrated to wherever the work was. First, working the logging of Kentucky until it was logged out.
Then the coal mines of W. Virginia.
The glass houses of Owens-Illinois put both sexes of family to work in the 40s and another migration to the west coast, California in the 50s.
Born in W. Virginia, So. Cal. was where I was raised.
My career in fire protection spanned 25 years in LA, until the bust of the early 90s drove another migration to the Pacific N/W.
My entire family, like Roma, migrate together. Wherever there is jobs or opportunity, we go. First, a couple of us who are layed off move on, the rest soon follow.
I still have family in W. Va.that refuse to leave. And they live in poverty.
Go where the work is. Go where the growth is. Go where the big ideas are coming from.
I'm encouraging my young family members to embrace and become a part of the OBOR New Silk Road initiative as I see it as the future.
Standing still is not an option. Look around. Move around. Learn around.
It makes you a well rounded person.
To those who want to give up and just complain how futile it is just play into the hands of TPTB. It's what they want you to do.
At least resist, and make them work for it.
My .05 cents.

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@The Aspie Corner
Can't ever win according to you, so I might as well FOAD.

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@The Aspie Corner

If you have a chance to get on stage and lift up the diva's skirt during the play, why wouldn't you instead of sitting passively outside in the alley letting them dump their chamber pots on you?

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4 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

@The Aspie Corner

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@The Aspie Corner

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6 users have voted.

"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

The Aspie Corner's picture

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15 users have voted.

Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.

Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.

@The Aspie Corner

You are just throwing the same bombs at all of it using the same repetitive rhetoric.

I find it disturbing, when people are trying to have productive conversations or exercises in problem solving, to have someone just shouting the same old observations with no solutions over and over again.

So the "capitalist pigs" will continue to parade on by while you are standing on the sidelines with fist raised.

Bernie Sanders, on the other hand, is turning his fist into actions. Warts and all, he is probably the most exciting and best thing to come down the political pike in many many years. Your continued bulldozing of him again begs the question that I have asked you many times.... what IS your solution to capitalism?

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10 users have voted.

"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

The Aspie Corner's picture

@Fishtroller 02

Bernie Sanders, on the other hand, is turning his fist into actions. Warts and all, he is probably the most exciting and best thing to come down the political pike in many many years. Your continued bulldozing of him again begs the question that I have asked you many times.... what IS your solution to capitalism?

Why do I keep bulldozing Bernie? Because he's nothing more than god damned controlled opposition. He knows it. They all do. Even that infantile Clinton operative Trump knows it. As long as he continues to push the imperialist and capitalist narrative while simply putting a velvet glove over the iron fist of capital, nothing is going to change.

So what's my solution to capitalism, then? Mass strikes. Mass corporate property destruction. Mass military boycott. All sustained and long term. That would be a start, at least. We also need workers councils locally and nationally and more workers in government at all levels, and I'm not talking about the sheepdogs at DSA or Sanders half-assed ideas that still let the pigs run everything into the ground just so the few 'workers' that do get in bank on playing controlled opposition.

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4 users have voted.

Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.

Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.

@The Aspie Corner

Mass destruction of corporate property. This will only lead to mass arrests and will turn people away from what you are trying to accomplish.

Getting workers into the government.... but only workers who think a certain way. Do you not see the totalitarianism of your suggestion?

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1 user has voted.

"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

thanatokephaloides's picture

@Fishtroller 02

I have read that hyperventilation is bad for one's health.

Depends on what you're hyperventilatin':

Wink

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8 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

@The Aspie Corner @The Aspie Corner @The Aspie Corner @The Aspie Corner doesn't know how pissed you are that (#1) the DNC rigged the 2016 primary and (#2) that Bernie didn't do exactly what you wanted him to do in response. Nevermind that your preferred response was the political equivalent to burning almost every bridge he'd built during his long political career. Nevermind that it would undoubtedly have thrown the election to Trump whose election Bernie publicly stated was his number one priority to prevent. It would have satisfied you and so many others who have decided Bernie Sanders is a sellout and a sheepdog for everything he's opposed his entire career. That's what you now say counts. A lifetime of work is all a charade. That Bernie's campaign for the DP presidential nomination is viable doesn't matter. Right? His approach allowed him to live to fight again. He's viable as a candidate and you're pissed, still.

So let's try a little thought experiment. You're now Bernie's MFWIC. You have total control of his campaign. You know beyond any shadow of a doubt that "he's doing it now by going through with this charade, knowing full well they're going to fuck us again." Whatever that means. Selling out I ass-u-me? A sheepdog, maybe? You know the DNC is going to cheat. Anyway, you are the ultimate authority for the Bernie Sanders campaign. You can tell him to quit, go third party, support someone else, or whatever comes into your head. You have only two requirements to satisfy. You plan has to provide a reasonable expectation that: 1. Trump loses the reelection bid. 2. The person elected to the presidency must be dedicated to neutering neoliberal corporatism and neoconservatism. Rein in capitalism in the US and stop the wars. Fix climate change and the environment too if you have a candidate who is up to the task. Any other issue is fair game too. That's pretty much everything I remember you claiming to want. How do you do that? You have the ball, you're in charge, lead us. Give a plan that we can all get behind. Show your work.

I'm not picking on you Aspie. I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't live in the US and am unlikely to vote. I don't have a permanent address in the US and any address that might hold up for election purposes is in a crazy fuck state. My vote hasn't counted in forever.

What I am though is really dismayed by the unique ability of most Americans who have this sad obsession with telling everyone, loudly, what they hate or don't like but stand mute when it's time to do something to change it all. I don't care what people don't like. Do something about it. What can you do to improve the state of the US? You, personally. Here's your chance to tell all of us what you would do if you had the power, not what you hate and won't do.

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17 users have voted.

@vtcc73 but if you refuse to see just how little real power we have against this entire system I don't feel that gives you any right to demand anyone provide a nice, pat answer. If any of us truly had power or a definitive simple solution we would not be here writing on a blog. You are entitled to your opinion but I personally do not feel you're entitled to demand answers from anyone. If you have one be sure to let us know.

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11 users have voted.
thanatokephaloides's picture

@lizzyh7

I'm sorry @vtcc73 but if you refuse to see just how little real power we have against this entire system I don't feel that gives you any right to demand anyone provide a nice, pat answer. If any of us truly had power or a definitive simple solution we would not be here writing on a blog. You are entitled to your opinion but I personally do not feel you're entitled to demand answers from anyone. If you have one be sure to let us know.

Although we might be frustrated as our essay and comment writers often are at our relative impotence against an overweening system, the nature of this particular (and valid!) criticism carries with it the question "where do we go from here?" as an inseparable and inalienable part.

At this point, most of us aren't demanding answers from anyone. But asking the question is the first step to reclaiming our rightful power.

And we differ in what we think we should do now, too.

I personally think we need to take a "wide front" approach. Those of us who still participate in electoral politics are rapidly aligning with me in working to nominate and elect the candidates who piss the PTB off the worst. Others have left the electoral system and are working in other ways to recover to The People the power that rightly belongs to them.

In my humble opinion, we need them all.

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12 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

@thanatokephaloides This isn't about who's right or wrong but what do we do. Whining, crying, complaining, arguing, bitching, raging, flinging poo, and the like does squat all. It's impotence crying into the dark night. It's the distraction that keeps us divided and not acting. It's what those who would keep us down want us to do.

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9 users have voted.

@lizzyh7 Yes we are powerless in many ways. It’s your personal relationship with powerless that’s important. Part of this is that control is an illusion.

My point in this comment is that constantly bitching about this stuff changes absolutely nothing. Want to be a victim? Do it in private. Nobody cares. Not completely true really but everyone has their challenges. Being a victim gives away what power you have because you’re not doing anything to change anything. You’re wallowing in self pity. Find your power. You have some, believe me.

Struggle does not guarantee success. Not struggling, fighting if necessary, is always a surrender to blind luck. Being a victim and whining about what we can’t do instead of finding what we can do and doing it will always fail to improve our lives. The illusion and expectation of control only intensifies the feeling of hopelessness. We get past that by doing what we can and not dwellings on the results. Take the wins and accept the failures but keep trying. What’s the alternative? Give up, quit? That’s always a failure.

The purpose of the exercise I suggested was not to have Aspie work out a plan. It’s an impossible task. Demanding total success and getting everything we want is for fools. I hoped he’d think through it and realize there’s no candidate out there that can give him more than some of what he wants. Forget having it all.

No politician will ever be able to give everyone what they want but that doesn’t seem to keep many of us from continuing to demand them to give it to us. Then we complain bitterly when they fail. Why the fuck would we give them that kind of power over how we feel?

The purity and total agreement demands are preplanned failures and resentments. Why do we do this to ourselves? Yet here we are with a viable candidate that may be able to give us some of what we want or at least start the country on a path towards some of it. There is at least one other that says the right things but viability is nearly as clear. We’ll know more as the weeks and months go by. It’s this dismissal of the viable over resentment for unrealized results to unrealistic expectations. What’s the harm in wait and see? But stop bitching constantly, it’s unhelpful.

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12 users have voted.

@vtcc73
Noted Canadian philosopher, Wayne Gretzky.

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12 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@vtcc73

One-trick, shit-stirrers never have any.

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6 users have voted.

Peace Sells

Big Al's picture

@Not Henry Kissinger All we are saying, is give peace a chance.
Smile

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12 users have voted.
thanatokephaloides's picture

@Big Al

Actually, the shit stirring is the answer.

And, to his just and rightful credit, Aspie's doing just that: stirring shit in the hopes that something, anything, will drop out from anywhere remotely resembling a way forward.

All we are saying, is give peace a chance.

Veritate, amice! (In truth, friend!) Right on!

Smile

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11 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@Big Al

Blind, nihilistic, rage repeated over and over every day is only productive as provocation.

At least he's stopped mentioning ass fucking in every comment, but the derailing effect is still the same.

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10 users have voted.

Peace Sells

snoopydawg's picture

My bad..thumb slipped.

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2 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

Pricknick's picture

@Not Henry Kissinger
is not a marker for great thought.

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7 users have voted.

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@Pricknick

I didn't realize Aspie's 'great thoughts' were so polite.

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3 users have voted.

Peace Sells

@vtcc73
unlike the average progressive politician/candidate, Sanders had something real to lose -- real power. loudly denouncing HRC and the DNC would have at best amounted to flushing that hard-won power down the toilet. it would not have brought the revolution. in my own opinion it would not have brought a viable third party. with respect to the electorate, Sanders would have been perceived by a whole lot of people as a crybaby sore loser. with respect to his coalitions in the senate, he would have done as well to just hang himself. neither he nor anyone he purports to represent had anything real to gain, but they certainly had a lot to lose.

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15 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

snoopydawg's picture

@UntimelyRippd

How daily kos....

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11 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

@snoopydawg
Replace "haters" with "people who express a hard-line, unmitigated contempt for Sanders, stridently denouncing him with pejoratives such as 'sheep dog' and 'sell out'".

Having made that concession to courtesy, I will nonetheless observe that the tenor of TAC's (and others as well) attacks on Sanders sure sounds like hate to me.

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9 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Unabashed Liberal's picture

@UntimelyRippd @UntimelyRippd @snoopydawg

is a bit over-the-top, at least, in regards to acknowledging that some people believe that many of the Dem Party Presidential candidates hope their run might deter some of the most left of the DP Base activists from voting third party.

(And, thanks to UR, for restating his thought.)

IMO, in no way does it (attempting to keep lefties in the DP) infer that a candidate doesn't hold sincere beliefs, or fails to conduct himself/herself in an honorable manner, generally-speaking.

In the instance of Bernie, speaking only for myself, I believe that he's very well-intentioned, and sincere. As far as I know, he's a nice guy. And, although I can't prove it, I'm 'guessing' that his LOTE philosophy is intended for 'the better good,' as he sees it. IMO, there's nothing devious, or evil about it. Remember, he's openly caucused with Dems his entire federal career. And, he's been against third party voting. Again, his right.

Having said that, for the most part, I disagree with that particular school of thought, or philosophy. Which is my right.

IMO, it's LOTE that (partly) brought us Carter, Clinton, and 'O'--all of whom have studiously attempted to chip away at our fragile social safety net programs--especially, Social Security and Medicare. (In the case of WJC, it included other programs--such as SSDI, SSI, and AFDC, a New Deal program which was reduced to a joke, called TANF.)

One other thing, keep seeing the meme that folks who don't support the Dem Party 'have given up.' I'm definitely not sure where this comes from, or, what it's based upon, but, speaking only for myself, it's definitely not true. I have, and will continue to advocate for expanding the current Traditional/Original 1965 Medicare program, because I haven't 'given up.' For instance, I'm not willing to stand idly by, and watch while LBJ's very effective, low cost healthcare program is dismantled--and, replaced with a managed care system--when all it needs is amending, then, broadening the program to cover everyone.

Thought I'd throw this in, since vctt suggested that we try to find solutions, not just complain. Which I totally agree with, BTW!

[Edited: 'not sure' not 'no sure']

PleasantryMollie

“Dogs have given us their absolute all. We are the center of their universe. We are the focus of their love and faith and trust. They serve us in return for scraps. It is without a doubt the best deal man has ever made.
~~Roger Caras

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4 users have voted.

Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

thanatokephaloides's picture

@snoopydawg

Haters

How daily kos....

Maybe he was talking about daily kos.....

Wink

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3 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

The Aspie Corner's picture

@UntimelyRippd They can play the sore loser card all they want, but Billary and her goons were already exposed by the time of the 2016 Gentricraptic Convention so calling him a sore loser would have been a moot point.

We have nothing to gain by supporting him this time. He's already capitulated to them. After this, he's retiring. Mark my words. But hey, at least he'll have his book deals to bank on, right?

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4 users have voted.

Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.

Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.

@The Aspie Corner
to argue with anyone in defense of something I didn't say.

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3 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

WoodsDweller's picture

@The Aspie Corner to the centrist Democrats is more damaging than what he's doing.
He's holding a Senate seat safely away from them. He's holding committee seats. He's out there doing three or four rallies per week reminding people that there used to be a Democratic party that held power because they supported the voters instead of the donors. Most of the clown bus (too big to be merely a clown car) has to publicly state a position on Medicare for All. If not for Sanders, would there be a single candidate talking about it? Shifting the Overton window is a necessary first step.
In 2016 he could have led a kamikaze assault on the Clinton campaign that would have put Trump in office. He would have been finished in national politics, and nobody would have dared touch New Deal politics again for decades. Clinton lost anyway, not because Sanders stood on a soap box in the pouring rain ranting about how he was robbed, but because she was an incompetent candidate running an incompetent campaign. He didn't need to destroy her, all he had to do was to be seen being a good sport while she destroyed herself.
Maybe he can't win this time either, but the race will be better because he ran.

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26 users have voted.

"I cannot ignore reality, but I can embrace beauty." -- magiamma

@vtcc73
Surrender is for losers.

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3 users have voted.

I have no idea what it will take to get American's off their asses.

@vtcc73

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6 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

earthling1's picture

@dkmich
Voters must be brought together and realize that our enemy is money, lots of it. We cannot compete with the hundreds of billions of dollars arrayed against us proles.
The 1% have enough wealth to fund the payroll of both our law enforcement and our military machine. At least for long enough to conquer all of us and put us into gulag slave camps.
We have to weaponize the money. Never vote for those who have money. Always vote for the candidate with the least money.
Encourage everyday people to throw their hat in. With a Congress of plumbers, barristas, dog catchers, and normal people TPTB would have to either sumit to whatever legislation they pass or shell out billions of dollars buying each and every new congressmember in every new election.
Term limits would be a natural added plus.
Make their wealth a Scarlet Letter. IMHO.

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2 users have voted.

@dkmich
when 1 in 3 people in South Korea, men, women, and children, protested.

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2 users have voted.
Granma's picture

The poll included all registered voters, rather than a breakdown by party. I wonder how many people were polled. The size of the sampling would be interesting to me.

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15 users have voted.
Big Al's picture

@Granma viewers and readers, i.e., Trump might lose so you better pay attention. Similar to what we're hearing from the democratic party side, i.e., Trump is going to win (I saw that AOC came out and say that just recently) Going with a Trump is going to win poll this early probably isn't in their best interests. A lot of games going on this "early" in the election process and polls are part of it.

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17 users have voted.
Not Henry Kissinger's picture

is the second coming of Dole '96.

At least that's what the PTB are hoping for.

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14 users have voted.

Peace Sells

about the out come. How many "democrats" would work with Sanders? How many would work across the aisle to sandbag him? How many dems would stonewall legislation he wants until he agrees to push their dead dog bills across the finish line? How do you see Chuck and Nancy supporting him?

Mitch McConnell showed everyone how it's done. Should Sanders win there's going to be a whole bunch of dems saying their main goal is to make Sanders a one term president. Hopefully there's enough legislators with a spine, but the same old democratic corruption machine will still be making the rules and passing out the cash to the loyal troops.

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12 users have voted.

@Snode

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3 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

@UntimelyRippd it's the questions that are wrong.

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3 users have voted.

@Snode
but look at the bigger picture.

1) if they are fighting Sanders they aren't screwing us
2) they will expose themselves for what they are and what they stand for

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12 users have voted.
Pricknick's picture

@gjohnsit
small big picture.

they will expose themselves for what they are and what they stand for

If you haven't seen the exposition that has already happened, you're late to the porn flick.
Smile

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9 users have voted.

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

@Pricknick
Most Dems still believe Obama was a good president.
Most Repubs believe that the media is leftist.

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10 users have voted.
Pricknick's picture

@gjohnsit

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3 users have voted.

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

@gjohnsit @gjohnsit They can screw voters and chew gum at the same time. Think 2016 primary. They fought Sanders and they screwed us, and they exposed themselves for what they are and what they stand for, like a flasher at a #meetoo convention.

I guess what I'm trying to say is no matter what, it will be difficult for any candidate we would like to see elected, they will have a huge fight on their hands, and the outcomes will look like something between sheepdogging and failure. Our candidates only hope is enough people like us, and whoever we can bring along with us, to force change. If Sanders wins then we fight like there is no tomorrow.

edited to make sense, maybe.

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6 users have voted.

@Snode

they exposed themselves for what they are and what they stand for, like a flasher at a #meetoo convention.

Now THAT'S funny.

I guess what I'm trying to say is no matter what, it will be difficult for any candidate we would like to see elected, they will have a huge fight on their hands, and the outcomes will look like something between sheepdogging and failure.

If it was truly so hopeless to fight back, then how come we aren't still living under feudalism? How come blacks aren't still slaves, and women can vote?
How come anything changes at all? Is it only because the ruling elite allow those changes?
Was the French and Russian Revolutions part of the oligarchs plan?

Basically I'm asking is if there is any reason to get out of bed in the morning?

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4 users have voted.

@gjohnsit

Our candidates only hope is enough people like us, and whoever we can bring along with us, to force change. If Sanders wins then we fight like there is no tomorrow.

If there is a win for us, that's when the real fight starts. The winner will do things that look like sheepdogging, or compromise, and everybody will scream betrayal. I mean, look who our guy would depend on to pass legislation. We can't kick back after a win because all the knives will be out. Getting out of bed helps.

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6 users have voted.

@Snode don't just consider the election win the final step in the process -- rather the fight has just begun.

Compare with what happened after Obama got elected -- he arranged to retire the grassroots org(s) that were instrumental in getting him elected, and the grassroots people quietly let it happen, trusting far too much in Obama himself to then carry the banner. As a result, there were no major organized groups in place to fight the fight over his policies, which were sorely in need of beefing up in a progressive way.

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5 users have voted.
Lily O Lady's picture

@wokkamile

people to get support. Of course the higher ups lied about the public option still being in play. So the Obama organization was still alive then, but it was disillusioning.

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1 user has voted.

"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

Benny's picture

Even though Bernie is 11% with AA voters in the poll.

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14 users have voted.

One equal temper of heroic hearts, Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will. To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.--Tennyson

@Benny
why black people hate Sanders so much. The man marched with MLK when it wasn't the cool thing to do.
Is it because he's and old white man and a jew to boot?
Are they (or you as the case may be) that prejudiced?

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6 users have voted.

@The Voice In the Wilderness
Sanders with suspicion, because the only thing distinguishing them from conservative southern white evangelicals is their more recent african ancestry and their fairly recent experience of slavery and violent racial oppression. that's why they love them those conservadems like HRC and Biden.

Meanwhile, many northern urban african americans view politicians like HRC and Biden with dismissive contempt. They know HRC isn't going to do fuck-all about their problems, and they don't give a flying fuck about her sanctimonious moralizing.

Allowing the regionalized, culturally marginal african american population of South Fucking Carolina to define a candidate's potential across the entire national african american electorate makes exactly the same sense as allowing the regionalized, culturally marginal european population of South Fucking Carolina to define a candidate's potential across the entire national european electorate. Which is to say, nonsense.

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19 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Unabashed Liberal's picture

@UntimelyRippd

except, that it's the 'third' Dem primary contest--so, it's impact in regards to momentum may somewhat magnify its importance.

Also, bear in mind, many African-Americans' (families) originally hail from the Deep South. I found this to be the case when I worked with the military--whether the Soldier or Airman came from California, Washington (state), Michigan, Chicago, or New York. Seriously.

So, there 'may' be more cultural relevance than initially meets the eye. Sure wouldn't underestimate it.

Mollie

“Dogs have given us their absolute all. We are the center of their universe. We are the focus of their love and faith and trust. They serve us in return for scraps. It is without a doubt the best deal man has ever made.
~~Roger Caras

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7 users have voted.

Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

@Unabashed Liberal
priming the pump with conservative states like south carolina grossly misrepresents the overall sense of democratic voters, and especially so for african american democratic voters. this is a big problem.

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11 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

@UntimelyRippd
When those Southern votes were reliably (D). At one time primary delegates were set by the number of (D) voters in the state. Getting a candidate acceptable to the South was hugely important in the general election.

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2 users have voted.

@The Voice In the Wilderness a way for the DNC to acknowledge the importance of the AA vote for Ds and to balance the fact that the two very important first primary states -- IA and NH -- are lily white.

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0 users have voted.

@wokkamile
But my recollection is that this is an old old system created long before the 1965 Civil rights Act.

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1 user has voted.
Centaurea's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness

After Lincoln "freed the slaves" and the Union Army trounced the Confederacy, the South en masse turned away from the Republican party. For the next 100 years, they voted solidly and exclusively for Democratic party candidates.

Basically, after the Civil War, the South refused to acknowledge the existence of the Republican Party. I mean that literally. In the southern states, there was either no Republican Party organization or a token, marginalized one that never fielded viable candidates. True, the Southern Democrats were mostly conservative, but they reliably voted Dem.

That all changed, of course, with the signing by LBJ of the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

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2 users have voted.

"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi

"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone

Unabashed Liberal's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness

came from (in the Tweet), or its relevance.

But, as I mentioned earlier today, many white and AA Democrats in the Mid-South and Deep South are relatively moderate, if not flat-out conservative. It's a matter of culture, and worldview. Especially, religious worldview. Which means that it's not uncommon for Southern Dems to frown on socially/culturally liberal politicians (in pockets of the South).

On MSNBC, Al Sharpton recently admitted that many in the AA Community (especially, in the South) are still homophobic as heck--especially, those over age 50, or so. And, since it's mostly rooted in religious beliefs, he doesn't expect it to change, anytime soon.

So, Biden is a pretty good fit for SC, and placed first in the SC Poll just released. And, I'm 'guessing' that Warren (who placed second) is doing well due to the composition of the AA vote in SC--which is one-third of the Dem Party voting base, and, mostly women.

(Plus, in Warren's favor, she hails from Oklahoma--which is also a conservative state. Or, was, when we lived in SW Oklahoma, decades ago.)

BTW, didn't catch who placed third. But, thought fourth place wasn't bad for Bernie, since there are numerous candidates of color, and, he's clearly not from the region. (Nor, does he have any roots there. Apparently, Biden does.)

Anyway, a poll is just a snapshot in time (as they say).

PleasantryMollie

“Dogs have given us their absolute all. We are the center of their universe. We are the focus of their love and faith and trust. They serve us in return for scraps. It is without a doubt the best deal man has ever made.
~~Roger Caras

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6 users have voted.

Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

@Unabashed Liberal there was a Black Economic Alliance forum held in SC, featuring 4 candidates -- O'Rourke, Buttigieg, Booker and Warren. Of these, Warren got the best reception in her 15 min appearance. Some of her bold economic proposals -- primarily her ultrarich tax idea -- and her humble OK upbringing resonated with the mostly AA audience. She was relaxed, straightforward and direct while not getting bogged down in too much policy wonk. (Obama's campaign mgr David Axelrod recently complained that Warren was talking down to her audiences in a fancy perfesser way, but I didn't see that in this appearance, as she seemed to connect with her audience.)

I have no info on why others like Bernie weren't there, or whether they were invited.

You can see the BEA forum on YT in its entirety.

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3 users have voted.
Unabashed Liberal's picture

@wokkamile

Mollie

“Dogs have given us their absolute all. We are the center of their universe. We are the focus of their love and faith and trust. They serve us in return for scraps. It is without a doubt the best deal man has ever made.
~~Roger Caras

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1 user has voted.

Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

Hawkfish's picture

The NYT had this big public soul searching about how they preferentially covered only the leaders. So this time around their coverage is Biden and everyone else except Bernie. So it’s not that they only cover the leaders - it’s that they refuse to cover Bernie.

The thing that is so depressing is that it’s not even subtle. The contempt is chilling.

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16 users have voted.

We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg

I considered the outcome before I challenged Aspie's opening salvo. I wasn't real sure if I could achieve my purpose. I wanted a conversation to start but I didn't want a food fight. Most of the discussion has come down about like I expected. Many positions are well known in this community. Yet, we can still hold strong positions passionately while being respectful. Good on all of you.

Now for a serious question or twenty two. Right this minute Bernie isn't the only candidate with positions that come close to what most of us say we want. He's gets high points on some issues and not so high on others. He's also the only non-DNC approved candidate with anything approaching viability in terms of name recognition, history/track record, and is polling strongly despite the MSM's and DNC's best efforts. That could change. I'd love to see someone challenge Bernie from the left and on foreign policy and military issues. So far, yes, it's very early, I'm not seeing an effective effort from the one candidate who is left of him. I also appreciate the doubt about Bernie. It cannot be ignored.

So. If not Bernie, who? I'm asking about right now from what we see. I know there's a lot of hope amongst us for Tulsi. I like what I see but I can't ignore uncertain viability questions. Part of that has a MSM/DNC component that may be difficult to break. I also can't get rid of the nagging Obama history of saying what we want to hear in pretty speeches but having no track record to judge authenticity. We know how that turned out. Fool me once, shame on you?...me?...uh...fool me twi....ugh... can't be fooled again! sort of feeling. If not Bernie but Tulsi, how do we judge? What do we need from her? Is there anybody else you guys see?

I have no reason to think that one or the other is not acceptable. Can we come together on whichever one? Can we put aside the hard feelings? What I've heard so far indicates it's possible. What are the alternatives?

Let's say the MSM/DNC get their way and it's one of the same ol', same ol' muppets. Is that better than 4 more orange colored shit stained years? I'm thinking that like a drunk or addict the people of the US won't seek help until we've found a bottom of our own understanding. Maybe it's necessary.

Anyway, I invite your thoughts.

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12 users have voted.
Pricknick's picture

@vtcc73
First off, let me thank you for the well reasoned responses you made to some very inflammatory posts on this thread. It takes the work of a balanced individual to do so.
I believe the democratic party needs to be disbanded and dissolved. It is the only entity that makes the republican party look good to so many. I whole heartedly agree that the republican party is corrupt. But compared to who?
The duopoly will be the death of a once proud nation. A nation that believed in the good of the government. A nation that held hope.
The word hope was tarnished by a president that even now many call the greatest president ever. A man who laughs about the mistakes he made. A man and a party who supported the call of "We came. We saw. He died."
We have the president we deserve. Make no mistake about that it was planned. As long as we support the duopoly, we are destined to live by their decisions. I will not support it.
I will fight it.
May the democratic and republican party both perish. It can't happen soon enough.

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13 users have voted.

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

thanatokephaloides's picture

@vtcc73

Let's say the MSM/DNC get their way and it's one of the same ol', same ol' muppets. Is that better than 4 more orange colored shit stained years?

If one of the "same ol'muppets" gets nominated, what we'll get is "4 more orange colored shit stained years". And that's true if Trump wins or loses.

All conservadems are Trump. Especially Her Heinous and Creepy Joe.

Bad

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9 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

@vtcc73 convince people to stop treating politics like a season of "The Bachelor" and vote like they and their kids lives depend on it.

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8 users have voted.
Unabashed Liberal's picture

@Snode

what you mean by,

vote like they and their kids lives depend on it.

Having participated in several iterations (or, predecessors) of this blog, gotta say--there are more than a few folks (here) who take their lefty political ideology/views/issues quite seriously, but, don't get into LOTE politics.

IOW, they vote their sincere convictions, which may mean voting third party. Which, from their frame of reference, is voting like their and their children's lives depend upon it. Pleasantry

Personally, I respect those who wish to continue to work 'inside,' however, disagree that it's productive. Which is to say, whereas many folks share your stated goal (including myself), there are concrete and substantial differences of opinion regarding 'how' to achieve said goal.

Having said that, IMO, it shouldn't be a problem, as long as everyone recognizes this, and respects the right of others to disagree.

Mollie

“Dogs have given us their absolute all. We are the center of their universe. We are the focus of their love and faith and trust. They serve us in return for scraps. It is without a doubt the best deal man has ever made.
~~Roger Caras

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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

@Unabashed Liberal Life spans in the US are declining. We're dying by our own hand, from drugs, from despair, from lack of medical care, from shooting each other. We're contaminating our air, water and food supply. Capitalism is failing most of us. Campaigns have been about sound bites that pander to the various special interest groups and ultimately they bow to wealthy donors behind the scenes. So, anyway, you get the idea. How many "next times we'll see real change"'s do we have left?

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

@Snode

that things in the US are steadily going downhill.

I guess the difference (between our thinking) is that from what I've gleaned from reading about our social safety net, I've found that Dem Presidents have signed into law many of the punitive repeals of entitlement and welfare programs. (Especially, WJC.)

You mention,

We're dying by our own hand, from drugs, from despair, from lack of medical care, from shooting each other.

I accept that as a true statement.

But, did you know that it was WJC who (in 1996) signed Public Law 104-121, "which terminated SSI and SSDI benefits to individuals disabled primarily by drug addiction and alcoholism."

Obviously, the elimination of SSDI eligibility meant that many, if not most, of these addicts/alcoholics no longer had access to any medical care, since there Medicare eligibility ended, when they no longer qualified for Social Security Disability Insurance, or SSDI.

Yet, Dem lawmakers have the gall to act 'surprised' that a generation later, we've been left with a major drug-related medical and healthcare crisis, which has prematurely claimed the lives of many Americans, especially, in rural areas of the country. Phew!

Hey, wish you the best of luck, if you should decide to continue working within the Party.

Mollie

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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

@Unabashed Liberal
that a significant number of WJC's worst initiatives were supported by nearly all Republicans and a minority of Democrats.

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

@FuturePassed

of fact, some of the programs that WJC slashed were recommended in Gingrich's toxic, so-called "Contract For America."

Having said that, IMO, that doesn't excuse the (Dem) Party that pretends claims to stand up for the "Little Guy," by protecting our weak and frayed social insurance system.

In my lifetime, only two Presidents--Nixon and LBJ--did much of anything to actually strengthen and/or expand the social safety net. The others--both Ds and Rs--have incrementally been about chiseling away at the very programs that they claim/claimed to hold dear, and, 'protect.'

Have a nice weekend.

PleasantryMollie

“Dogs have given us their absolute all. We are the center of their universe. We are the focus of their love and faith and trust. They serve us in return for scraps. It is without a doubt the best deal man has ever made.
~~Roger Caras

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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

@vtcc73 for your several positive, corrective posts above, most needed in this grim time of gloom and doom when it's so easy to throw in the towel.

Re Tulsi, her authenticity derives from her bold outspokenness, alone in the pack of 24, on FP, an area which as we've seen can bring down the wrath of TPTB -- MIIC and MSM -- upon anyone wandering off the reservation. Knowing she would face this establishment backlash, it's difficult to comprehend why she would undertake meeting personally with Assad, questioning the alleged chemical attacks, being a public skeptic about the collusion angle of Russiagate (again alone among candidates), and challenging the wisdom of our many regime change efforts, if she didn't believe sincerely in these issues.

All this takes courage. It would have been far easier for her to concentrate, as the others do, on DP and run on that basis, as a young leader with new ideas for the 21st C, while relegating FP to the back burner and largely going along with our DeepState. If she had taken this easier path, the MSM would be featuring her and promoting her, regularly running positive profiles of her as young lawmaker from Hawaii, surfer, former Iraq vet, Hindu, and all the rest of her interesting background. But she chose the treacherous path less traveled, and that is what makes her authentic.

Finally, I think we need to be cautious about not constantly drawing from the negative Obama example. Neither Tulsi nor Bernie strike me as the types running 95% on personal appeal and bipartisan idealistic rhetoric to achieve some imagined unified United States. They both see the serious problems we face and do not speak in naive language of fictional national happiness. They are about directly challenging the system, Tulsi in FP, Bernie in DP, and doing so with substantive proposals and not appeals to personal charisma and lofty rhetoric.

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Jen's picture

If only Bernie Sanders was a corporate Democrat, the media narrative would be entirely different.

If Bernie Sanders was a corporate democrat, he would be just another generic democrat that no one cares to listen to and he wouldn't have as many supporters. The only reason he has as many supporters as he does is because he's not a corporate democrat - he's not even a democrat last time I checked. And he would have as much of a chance at beating Trump as Biden does. Which is little or none.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

@Jen

And he would have as much of a chance at beating Trump as Biden does. Which is little or none.

Bernie's chances of beating Trump are actually far better than Biden's. And they always have been. This fact scares the tar out of the conservadems' donor class. (As well it should!)

America will always vote for the genuine article GOPper in preference to a pseudo-GOPper running as a conservadem. (Paraphrase of Harry Truman) If the Dems run a clone of Trump, we will get Trump. Bank on it!

Wink

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"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

Jen's picture

@thanatokephaloides I meant if he was another corporate democrat. Smile

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