Gulf of Tonkin Event to start the War on Iran?
The details on how the ships were damaged are very scarce. Was it a bomb? A mine? An RPG?
First assessment blames Iran for Middle East ship explosions, official says
An American military team assessing blasts that damaged four commercial ships off the coast of the United Arab Emirates (UAE) Sunday has blamed Iran or Iranian-backed proxies using explosive charges, a source told Fox News on Monday evening.
Each ship had a 5-to-10-foot hole in it, near or just below the water line, a U.S. official told The Associated Press. A Norwegian-flagged vessel, two Saudi oil tankers and a bunkering tanker flagged in Sharjah, one of the UAE's seven emirates, all suffered similar damage Sunday.
The UAE asked the U.S. to help investigate the damage, which Gulf officials have characterized as sabotage. UAE's state media said Sunday there had been "no injuries or fatalities on board the vessels" and "no spillage of harmful chemicals or fuel."
The U.S. has warned ships that "Iran or its proxies" could be targeting maritime traffic in the region, and America has moved additional ships and aircraft into the region.
The linked article does not blame Iran for that event, it threatens them if anything happens. But this is what the media does anymore isn't it? States something happened when it didn't. Hmm I'm wondering if Trump will call out the fake news here?
Trump warns Iran, says country will 'suffer greatly' if it does 'anything' amid tensions
President Trump on Monday warned Iran that it will “suffer greatly” if the country does “anything” in the form of an attack amid new tensions with Tehran.
Asked by reporters in the Oval Office if the United States is going to war with Iran, Trump said, “We will see what happens with Iran. If they do anything, it’ll be a big mistake.”
He added, “If they do anything, they will suffer greatly.”
The warning that Iran was going to attack US interests came from our buddies in Israel. Gee what a surprise huh? And Bibi is once again saying that Iran has to much of the stuff that goes into nuclear weapons. I think he's been saying that for over 10 years. Cry wolf too many times and eventually someone will believe you...
This another thing that Sun Tsu advised. "When your enemy is looking for any excuse to wipe you out do something stupid and give it to them."
Not.
Comments
Here's the AP on it
UAE says 4 ships targeted by ‘sabotage’ off its east coast
Was Humpty Dumpty pushed?
Now Iran attacked two Saudi oil ships
Looking like things are moving fast. The WSJ doing its part to spread government propaganda.
BTW. The USA just attacked the Venezuelan embassy. I'm trying to find more info on this. This is a very bad move on our part.
Was Humpty Dumpty pushed?
US Marshalls broke into the Venezuelan embassy
US Law Enforcement Officials Raid Venezuelan Embassy in Washington DC
The Marshalls taped this message to the door:
"This property is used for official business and diplomatic purposes. The United States of America recognizes Ambassadors Vecchio and Tarre as the representatives of Venezuela with lawful control over the property," the letter reads, which wasn't delivered on an kind of official letterhead. "Accordingly, the United States does not recognize the authority of the former Maduro regime, or any of its former representatives, to allow and individuals to lawfully enter, remain on this property, or take any other action with respect to this property."
"Ambassadors Vecchio and Tarre have requested and directed anyone who is present on this property to depart from it immediately, and to not return without these ambassadors' express authorization," the notice continues. "Any person who refuses to comply with these requests and orders to depart from this property will be trespassing in violation of federal and District of Columbia law and may be arrested or criminally prosecuted."
This goes against the Vienna convention. Rogue government. Two of them.
Was Humpty Dumpty pushed?
Stasi.
I can't accept this easily.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Stasi indeed
The brown shirts just cleared the Venezuelan goons in front of the embassy. Injustice doesn't like an audience.
Just read a tweet saying that we've sent 120,000 troops to the Middle East. But not for a ground invasion. Right..stay tuned.
Was Humpty Dumpty pushed?
This needs its own diary and thread. Please?
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
Which subject?
The embassy or the troops? If it's the embassy I posted something on it in the EBs as did Joe.
The troops were in a tweet linking the NYT.
Was Humpty Dumpty pushed?
The UAE just can't assess the incident!
They must ask the geniuses who thought Saddam had WMDs because they are the best!
Glad I got out of that area last week. It was not so crazy then. Last week.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Well, I'm glad they got the yellow cake brigade to help them
out with that.
Maybe they should ask the Brits who have been investigating the Skripal poisoning to help too.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Lol!
Except is isn't funny unless you dig gallows humor!
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Everybody under 55 digs gallows humor...
and somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 of the people I've met over 55 dig it too.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Unfortunately
the US probably was responsible for the damage, then we blame them. It’s classic US BS. They want war. Where is congress? This won’t end well.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
Congress is fully on board with the Iran war
Congress abdicated their duty to declare war and after Trump vetoed the Yemen legislation there weren't enough votes to override it. Haven't heard much from the democrats on this have you? Haven't heard much about them being upset that Trump pulled us out of the agreement either. The other countries that signed the agreement are going along with Trump's sanctions now too.
Was Humpty Dumpty pushed?
Congress has been almost unanimous with an Iran war all along,
like it is with Israel. Including Tulsi Gabbard, imagine that.
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2016/roll577.xml
True
This is a good article to read to see the plans for Iran and the Middle East. Inside is a quote from an older article when after the democrats took back the house so that they could roll back the Bush abuses, but they gave him the go ahead to mess with Iran.
Was Humpty Dumpty pushed?
sounds like Tulsi is not happy with Iran war
don't know about sanctions vote
Tulsi Gabbard
Verified account @TulsiGabbard
9h9 hours ago
edit- block quote for clarity
And, most important, it's what the CIA and their
other Deep State compatriots want.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Both of these are truly scary events and correalated for sure.
Although it did take me a moment to catch it.
Thanks for posting this Snoopydawg.
It is like they want an either or.
Because could they handle both, or for that matter either?
I was actually quite surprised by the first few comments I read under FOX’s article about the ship explosions incidents.
It’s not the Bill OReilly Show any more.
Trump isn't being smart about launching a war with Iran
He ran on not being an interventionist and lots of people voted for him over Herheinous because of it. As the comments show some of his supporters are not happy with him. But he's got both Bolton and Bibi whispering in his ear and Trump hasn't turned Bibi down for anything.
Was Humpty Dumpty pushed?
You have no evidence for BiBi
You are being as bad as they. Obviously Bolton, being in the administration and picked by Trump, whispers in his ear. You are right on that.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
No Evidence...
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
i'd just put up
a very lengthy whitney webb piece on netenyahu's long history advocating for war with iran on my own iran thread. lots of history i hadn't known, some recent history as well, including 'timelines are diminishing' and her reasoning.
Yeah but that doesn't count as evidence
Why not? Reasons.
It's like that quacking sound you hear and then you are sure that a dawg is coming.
Was Humpty Dumpty pushed?
?
never mind.
No evidence?
I don't think we need a roadmap to decide this. There's the embassy being moved to Jerusalem. Trump saying that Israel can have the golan heights and Bibi's long history of wanting war with Iraq. He's been saying for decades that Iran is close to getting the BOMB.
Was Humpty Dumpty pushed?
Yes you need evidence
Else you are as bad as the (R)'s
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
There is plenty of evidence.
By the way, are the no-evidence R's worse than Russiagate D blithering idiots ? This is a non-partisan site.
edit: had to put in Russiagate...I blame it on an old keyboard. no evidence of that. You decide.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Correct. There is no evidence of Russiagate.
I heard a "news" story this afternoon that said the Florida had determined that "the Russians" had "hacked" the 2016 Florida database by spearphishing and ... wait for this ... illegally downloaded publicly available information! Yes, they admitted that the "stolen data" was public data. And how do they know it was "the Russians"?
Who are the Russians?. Literally, people from Russia, but the word "the" implies the Russian government of which there is not one scrap of evidence.
And since when is spearphishing hacking?
No, I call out Democratic myths and lies too. But there are many more (R) lies.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
I have never done a chart to compare
which one was the most corrupt.
I see no evidence or any reason to deny, R or D, that our government has it's chain yanked by Bibi.
Calling Snoopydawg as bad as an R was rude.
Over Bibi? Is he your line in the sand?
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Was snoopydawg offended?
Then I apologize for offending him. But I'm sick of people declaring their suspicions as fact without any supporting evidence. My objection was not support of BiBi who is leading his people into Holocaust II by turning the world against them, but merely an objection to fact-free claims. Might as well say it was green aliens whispering in his ear. Or the Pope. Or the Gnomes of Zurich. Bolton was a claim based on reasonable surmise based on facts - Bolton's record, Bolton's recent statements - Bolton being placed in a policy making official position by Trump himself.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
I see no evidence of critical faculties in your reasoning
Just because you imply the Dawg is using politically subversive logic, something she sniffs out daily in the media and on Twitter, does not make that a reality anywhere but in your own head.
And just because this community seems to universally condemn evidence-free accusations — a psyop ploy used by the Media Industrial Complex to propagandize the mentally weak and uninformed in the public square — does not mean their alarms won't go off on you. Don't assume your queer projection on Snoopydawg won't stand out and be analyzed.
[You never accepted that the Russia bullshit was a hoax, did you? This is me looking at you. You've turned your volume down over time, but I still hear you.]
I've struck out the CYA parts of your jab, below. And the dumb allegories that insult one's intelligence:
You think acknowledging that Bolton has agency in Trump's military clusterfuck is an intellectual safety zone for you?
I, and I'm sure many others can pile on physical evidence of heretofore unthinkable actions and alliances that Trump and Bibi have engaged in to satisfy his psychopathic obsession with Israel — and to the detriment of the American people. I'll kick it off with the fact that General Flynn is still awaiting sentencing for lying about a phone call he made as part of a Bibi-Trump scheme to rig a United Nations vote to effectively exonerate Israeli Settlers of genocide. And that was before the inauguration. Naturally, one of Trump's first acts in office was to tear up the Iran Nuclear Treaty — Bibi's ultimate salvation and a betrayal of Europe's future. Since then, the collaboration between Bibi, Trump, and Trump's mini me, Gerald Kushner — who is currently designing Israel's Peace Plan — has been a bloodbath of murder, mayhem, misery, and corruption in the Middle East. And now we have a real war looming. Bibi wins.
Sure you are.
Would you call
Jared Kushner an ear whisperer?
dfarrah
Who knows?
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Is this enough evidence?
After everything Bibi has said about Iran I don't understand why you think he isn't involved with threatening Iran.
Was Humpty Dumpty pushed?
I did NOT say that!
I said there was no evidence that he was personally "whispering in Trump's ear" i.e. involved in personal communication advising Trump. Whereas the claim that Bolton was based on Bolton's official position, physical proximity, and official duties. NONE of which apply to Netanyahu.
I will continue to speak out against "It must have been the Jew" every time something bad happens with absolutely no evidence that the Jew did anything of the sort.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
I did not say that about Bibi because he's a Jew
but because he has long wanted war with Iran. This is common knowledge. Not being able to criticize someone because of this is a cop out. Accusing anti Semitism when talking about a person who has no problem with crimes against humanity..nope.
Was Humpty Dumpty pushed?
"When your enemy is looking for any excuse to wipe you out
"When your enemy is looking for any excuse to wipe you out do something stupid and give it to them." Not.
Nailed it. Extra up votes.
Those who do not learn from history
will be doomed to repeat it. "Never get involved in a land war in Asia (unless you're Genghis Khan)".
Three times never tangle with the Persians/Parthians/Iranians on their home turf - even if you "win", you lose.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
The Spanish-American War, The Gulf of Tonkin (Vietnam)...
And, for America's third and final act...another media war. (Then again, all wars--these days--are media wars, aren't they?)
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8g8NpQsmxj4]
America's first "media war."
"IN A BATTLE FOR READERS, TWO MEDIA BARONS SPARKED A WAR IN THE 1890s." Where do you think "we" got the idea for the Gulf of Tonkin? These guys aren't very creative...but they are very, very lethal. However, Russia and China are NOT going to take this sh*t lying down. This time, it'll be more along the lines of WWIII.
And this time, there won't be "a happy ending."
Neither the U.S. Military-Industrial-Surveillance State nor "The Donald" will go quietly into the night.
Yes, those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it (and double down, and really f*ck things up).
"Freedom is something that dies unless it's used." --Hunter S. Thompson
A major difference
the Spanish-American War originated with the press misreporting and lies. The Gulf of Tonkin res and the similar Iraq War res of 2002 were WH-driven lies, with a non questioning, compliant press going along for their own financial interests. With Tonkin, Lyndon Johnson clearly was the mastermind of that deception, with his nat'l security advisers loyally assisting the effort, and he got the blank check to go to war in VN that he wanted. That effort actually had started months before, in early '64, when Johnson ordered the Pentagon to give him a specific plan to heighten the tensions with NVN.
It wasn't by accident that the bogus Tonkin "attack" occurred after the Repubs had already held their convention, so they couldn't be in a media spotlight position to be seen as leading the charge for strong leadership to be shown, and just before the Dem convo where Lyndon could be seen showing responsible and steady leadership by getting his Resolution, acknowledging the seriousness of the incident, but not overreacting.
In the latest, Trump seems heavily influenced by a few hardline neocon hawks in his admin on Iran and Venezuela, needlessly and recklessly pushing the situation to the brink of war, in the glorious tradition of Tonkin and GWB's Iraq. And one has to wonder whether tensions with Iran are being ramped up to compensate for the admin's failure to engineer regime change in VZ.
Sending US troops into Iran would be a spectacularly reckless and dangerous move, likely the trigger that would soon set off war against Russia and WW3. Of course Russia would be blamed as one of the reasons the US has to go into Iran. Helping Iran spread terrorism or to develop or obtain nuke weapons would be a few obvious and false reasons that would be fed to the MSM which as usual would dutifully run with the stories.
Iran "could be responsible"
And the CIA "could be responsible" or MI5 or neo-Nazis or Trmp or even myself!
This is weasel-wording. Like Russia "could have hacked the election".
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
I don't suppose anyone has bothered asking
why Iran would WANT to punch holes in a few cargo ships? What their motivation would possibly be?
"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone
You mean have an honest investigation
into the matter?
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
Their illimitable and irredeemable evil.
Also, Putin.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Heh! I'm surprised that Russia wasn't blamed for it
Hopefully that would have been a bridge too far. I've been saying that Russia Gate is the new WMDs scam, but would people believe that they tried to capsize the Saudi ships? Might have to keep a close eye on Rachel.
Was Humpty Dumpty pushed?
Oh, someone is working
on that, I'm sure.
dfarrah
I know.
And no casualties or oil spills. How marvelously careful!
dfarrah
It's horrifying.
Is anyone supposed to believe that the Iranian government decided to commit suicide? Is anyone buying it?
This isn't like Tonkin, or for that matter like the Maine, because even the barely-informed know enough to know that the Iranians had nothing to gain from such a provocation.
It's nut.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
My spouse and I immediately looked at each other and said,
"Oh sure the Iranians put neat little holes in 4 ships without anyone seeing them!"
I hope it doesn't take as long as it did with the Gulf of Tonkin LIE to be revealed that our own people caused this damage (in cooperation with the Saudis I'll bet, and maybe Israel).
Hey... all Iran has to do is fess up and pay for the damage-right?
SEE...https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident
Or we can take the case to a federal judge who can rule for reparations- right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Cole_bombing
NAW.... let's just GO TO WAR with Iran!
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
Seems not to matter one twit
whether american thoughts on another provocation towards more war is going to poll well or not. It's all made up. The neo-conners / MIC are going ahead with it anyway. We only pay the game.
"We only pay the game."
Probably a typo, but very apropos!
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Actually meant it that way
Rare, but true.
Nice wordplay....
dfarrah
Luckily, it just so happens
We got an air craft carrier in position just days ago!
God IS on our side!
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
To quote the Mystery Science Theater guys...
"Hey! Somebody left a chopper....with the keys in it!"
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Bingo
How, who why and when did Iran make those holes in the ships without anyone seeing them do it? This story has more holes in it than the ships do.
Was Humpty Dumpty pushed?
The attack was made
by a MSM meme.
Casablanca
There's a line from the movie Casablanca starring Humphrey Bogart where the police inspector says "Round up the usual suspects!" It sound like that's what the U.S. is doing here.
It's awful convenient that terrorists (or Iran, for that matter), who normally want to cause as much death and destruction as possible, in this case cause "no injuries or fatalities on board the vessels" and "no spillage of harmful chemicals or fuel." Almost like the explosions were carefully orchestrated to start a war while causing minimal damage.
Ain't that funny.
Just enough damage to cause a fuss.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Hey Bolton and Pompeo!
How you going to pay for that?
Words that are only asked of programs that will help people, not kill them-- there's always plenty for that.
Semper ubi sub ubi
The Capitalist Party of the United States
is a terrorist organization and should be treated as such. Oh, wait, they also control NATO, the UN and the IMF so that's impossible. Fucking pigs.
Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.
Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.
Iran or "Iranian-backed proxies?"
Is that like that definition of an enemy non-combatant in the 2011 NDAA?
Oh wait. Not enemy non-combatant. The word was "belligerent."
These NDAA provisions (which have been re-approved by Congress and signed by President Obama every year since 2012) override habeas corpus―the essence of our justice system. Habeas corpus is the vital legal procedure that prevents the government from detaining you indefinitely without showing just cause. When you challenge your detention by filing a writ of habeas corpus, you must be promptly brought before a judge or into court, where lawful grounds must be shown for your detention or you must be released.
Under Section 1021, however, anyone who has committed a “belligerent act,” can be detained indefinitely, without charges or trial, as a “suspected terrorist.”
Apparently the term was changed to "belligerent" under the 2nd Obama Administration:
In 2009, Congress passed the second Military Commissions Act, which quietly replaced unlawful enemy combatant with unprivileged enemy belligerent. Both noncombatants and civilians could then be categorized as “enemy belligerents,” and denied their Geneva Conventions rights.
So don't get belligerent. If you sass Daddy, he'll get out the belt. And he doesn't have to justify who he hits. Even if you're just a friend of a friend of someone who sasses him, he'll hit you too.
That's what connects to this Iran-based proxies tried to blow up our ships argument: it doesn't have to be one specific person or even one nation-state that provably caused harm to the U.S.; we don't have to prove that Iran tried to blow up our ships, all we have to do is say that it maybe was Iran and if it wasn't was something called an Iran-based proxy.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Bleah, I can't handle
all the definitions changing second by second.
dfarrah
UK General says
US intelligence agrees:
Thanks, Linda
I read this earlier and LoL. Pompeo went to Brussels to get the EU to sign on to this ploy on Iran and he was told that they will be there all day....
if any of Bolton's bozos does anything that interferes with oil shipments then we'll see the cost of it skyrocketing. If Iran closes the straits of Hormuz the global economy will crash. This happens right before the election and Trump can kiss his second term goodbye.
Was Humpty Dumpty pushed?
NPR was interviewing some man on the radio
the other day. I didn't catch his name but I think they said he was retired CIA. Anyway, his opinion was that Trump is focused way more on the next election than foreign policy and that he needed a war with Iran like he needed a hole in his head. He bet Trump will slow this Bolton project down if not stop it all together. Hope he was right.
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
Oil futures have gone up since the "attacks"
Oil jumps after Saudi Arabia says tankers targeted near UAE
Sure looks like people aren't buying that Iran did the deed.
Was Humpty Dumpty pushed?
Russia is telling Trump to attack Iran
Some kids think that Putin is behind the nationalism that has risen up here and in Europe. Or that he is hoping for neo Nazis to become more powerful here and elsewhere...
Good lord. Do any of the Russian phobes even know what the hell they are talking about? Or that millions of Russians were killed by Nazis in WWII? Grrr. I have to bulk up my swamp suit again.
Was Humpty Dumpty pushed?
Here's a crazy idea
let me just throw this out there...
False flag against some freighters. US moves 120000 troops into position, along with an older (expendable?) carrier. A few more rounds of false flags or actual low level engagements happen, followed by US air strikes. The Iranian military considers its options and sinks the Abraham Lincoln with a missile (or a bunch of missiles) showing that US carriers are vulnerable in any real conflict.
Then the US responds with nuclear weapons, establishing a precedent. Sink our carriers and we respond with nukes. This puts Russia and China on notice that sure, they may have carrier killer missiles, but using them ends the world. Thus we keep our trillion dollar nuclear navy even though it's as obsolete as cavalry.
Nutty to be sure.
"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone
You call this
a "crazy idea". But it's exactly what our batshit crazy neocon leadership is doing. This is why Eisenhower called the military industrial complex "the disastrous rise of misplaced power." This is a disaster. They are willing to kill millions or even billions of people in order to keep the nuclear weapons industry going because it is a black hole of funding.
And I agree with you that they want a reason to demonstrate the usefulness of nuclear weapons because the fact that we can't use them without committing suicide led to the agreement between Gorbachev and Reagan to dismantle them. You are clearly describing our suicidal foreign policy.
Suicidal? Omnicidal!!
There is no justice. There can be no peace.