A better response about reparations

Submitted by gjohnsit on Tue, 03/05/2019 - 11:20pm

The issue of reparations is obviously a trap designed specifically for Bernie Sanders.
No one else is getting interrogated on this issue. Only Bernie.
The obvious reason is because it feeds into the bullsh*t Bernie Bros narrative.

If Bernie says that he doesn't support reparations, then it gives the pundits ammo for the Bernie Bros meme.
The fact that no one, literally no one, supports cutting everyone a check, will never get mentioned. All that matters is that Bernie doesn't support it.
It's not fair, but Bernie may as well get used to it.

If Bernie says he does support cutting everyone a check, it's worse. Because that would be one of the most unpopular positions in America today. It could really cost his campaign.

So far Bernie's answer has been right, but inadequate.

Sen. Bernie Sanders on Friday said there are "better ways" to address the crises in American communities than "writing out a check" when he was asked if he supports reparations for the descendants of slaves.
When Sanders was asked to expand on his views regarding this issue on ABC's "The View," the senator said, "The wealth gap … between the white community and the black community is like 10 to one. Health disparities are terrible, environmental disparities are terrible — Flint, Michigan, comes to mind."

Sanders added, "What we have got to do is pay attention to distressed communities — black communities, Latino communities, and white communities all over this country — and as president I pledge to do that."

That is the right answer, but there is a better answer.
Ready? Here it is:

"While the debate over reparations for 19th Century slavery is important, I think our focus should be on freeing 21st Century American slaves first."

That's the first sentence of the response.
You could go two directions at this point.

1) "There are 400,000 modern slaves in the U.S."

More than 400,000 people could be living in “modern slavery” in the US, a condition of servitude broadly defined in a new study as forced and state-imposed labor, sexual servitude and forced marriage.
The Global Slavery Index, published on Thursday by Walk Free Foundation, describes modern slavery as a complex and often hidden crime that crosses borders, sectors and jurisdictions. The US number, the study estimates, is almost one hundredth of the estimated 40.3 million global total number of people it defines as being enslaved.

“The United States is one of the most advanced countries in the world yet has more than 400,000 modern slaves working under forced labor conditions,” said the group’s founder, Andrew Forrest, in a news release.

I believe this is a powerful response. It changes the dynamics of the debate. It puts Bernie on the offensive.
And it just happens to be both true and an unacceptable situation.

But there is an even better direction that Bernie could go in.

2) "Slavery was not abolished at the end of the Civil War, it was merely reformed.
No one is actually listening to the black community. They aren't out in the streets demanding reparations. They are demanding criminal justice reform, but no in Washington seems to care."
"Last year we witnessed the first nationwide prison strike in this country's history. Prisons today, even non-private prisons, have been so privatized that prisoners are forced to work if they want things that they can't be without, like toothbrushes and clean clothes. Which is perfectly fine - if you pay the prisoners at least the federal minimum wage. We don't. We pay prisoners pennies. Forcing people to work long hours for pennies is slavery. I oppose slavery."

Bernie could stop right there with "I oppose slavery." Because you know who doesn't oppose slavery?
Kamala Harris.
I think this response would blow people away because it would make all those establishment candidates look deaf and dumb to the black community, while Bernie of all people was hip to what was going on.

However, if Bernie is debating a Republican, he/she may not oppose slavery.
In which case, Bernie should follow up with:

"You may support slave labor as punishment, but you haven't thought about the implications.
Corporations that can hire slaves aren't going to hire non-slaves for 100 times the pay. Your punishment is costing regular workers their jobs. Even their livelihoods.
Back in the 1890s in Tennessee there was an all-out shooting war over convict/slave labor being used to break strikes."

I like referencing Tennessee because it's such a red state, and Repubs wouldn't know what to do with it. Bernie would outflank them.

Tags:

bernie sanders

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Comments

Submitted by bobswern on Wed, 03/06/2019 - 12:08am

Another outstanding post, gjohnsit!

I think you were a great media person in another life! Not a joke! I know a few "great political media and issues types/advisors," and you're a NATURAL. Combine the media skills with your I.T. experience, and you're a ready-made, 2-for-1 MVP for a major political campaign.

Thanks for the post!

—

"Freedom is something that dies unless it's used." --Hunter S. Thompson

Submitted by snoopydawg on Wed, 03/06/2019 - 1:10am

Oh look

where are you getting your info? on the show you didn’t know how well Bernie was polling with black ppl now you’re saying Kamala supports reparations when she clearly said she didn’t...come on pic.twitter.com/808CHxpdKZ

— socialismo bro. (@lovewave_sw) March 2, 2019

—

Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

Submitted by gjohnsit on Wed, 03/06/2019 - 1:44pm

Bernie more popular with blacks than Harris, Booker

@snoopydawg
Oops!

Three weeks after launching his presidential campaign, Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders is leading all other announced candidates in support from black voters, a new poll finds. The only potential candidate who polled better with African-Americans than Sanders, according to the poll by Morning Consult, is former Vice President Joe Biden, who has not announced a campaign.
...
Sen. Kamala Harris, D-Calif., meanwhile, has half as much support, at 14 percent, among black voters as Sanders, according to supplementary polling data provided to The Intercept by Morning Consult. The findings are drawn from a sample of 2,587 black, likely Democratic primary voters.
New Jersey Sen. Cory Booker comes in fourth at 6 percent among black voters.

Submitted by The Aspie Corner on Wed, 03/06/2019 - 5:10am

Bernie Sanders: Playing the perfect controlled opposition.

That's why his responses are fuckin' weak.

—

Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.

Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.

Submitted by entrepreneur on Wed, 03/06/2019 - 1:17pm

I don't completely disagree. I just haven't decided if his

@The Aspie Corner
measured responses are a stylistic choice, decorum, or if they have him on a leash. He definitely has the goods on them but is holding back.

Submitted by Lookout on Wed, 03/06/2019 - 7:46am

if any peoples deserve reparations...

it is the first nations...not to minimize the horrors and inhumanity of slavery.

Lift all boats in a tide of equality and jobs for all. Heard Bernie's Chi town speech the other day. He is calling for a national jobs program in his campaign this time around. I'm a big fan of that idea. There should be a basic minimum SALARY rather than hourly wage, IMO.

I like your answers gjohn and enjoyed your essay.

—

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Submitted by gjohnsit on Wed, 03/06/2019 - 9:56am

That's how I think too

@Lookout
Plus, lots of native Americans were enslaved as well.

Submitted by dkmich on Wed, 03/06/2019 - 8:33am

It is a trap for Bernie - no one else.

I think your responses are good. I would add if I were Bernie that I agree with Kamala and the other candidates on reparations. Then I would go on to say everything you said. He cannot come out in favor of this unreasonable ask because the idea of reparations to a handful of direct descendants of slaves is ridiculous while so many other people, i.e. native Americans, poor whites, et al, are still oppressed. Can any female who was of childbearing age when abortions were illegal demand reparations? How about all the women who were denied their right to vote for years by law?

Besides being ridiculous, unreasonable, and ineffective, reparations are divisive. Just like BLM was divisive. If you want allies in your fight, all lives matter, all oppressed and wronged people matter, all people matter.

Here is another great article on Ghion by Theodore Fikre. It was written a while ago, but it is resurfacing on Twitter because of ADOS all the reparations furor. The #ADOS movement is a typical veal pen creation, cutting off its nose to spite a white face and Bernie.

The Absurdity of Saying “White Privilege”
BY TEODROSE FIKRE ON MAY 14, 2017

I will admit, I was a part of the same crowd I’m now picking up a pen to speak against. I, too, once went around foolishly talking about “white privilege” this or “white people are evil” that. This was not too long ago; a time when I used to see justice through colored binoculars. I was part and parcel of the very divisive culture I thought I was speaking against. It took two years of hardship to finally shed my blinders and see injustice as it is without putting an adjective in front of it.

This is the wisdom I earned through hardship. Using rhetoric like “white supremacy” and “white privilege” is a way of stereotyping the whole of “white” people and lumping everyone into one group. This is the surest way to turn potential allies in the struggle for justice into adversaries; by doing so we end up perpetuating the very divides that the “system” depends on to splinter people apart. Moreover, it is a blatant lie that being “white” automatically confers some type of privilege. Just because some or even most might have it easier being a certain complexion does not mean all enjoy that privilege. True enough we have it hard being “black” and institutional racism is no joke; but there are tens of millions of “white” people who suffer generational poverty in the Appalachians and beyond that matches the poverty faced by “African-Americans” and “minorities” in the inner cities.

Do we have to negate the suffering of others in order to show that we suffer?

Be sure to read the whole thing. It expresses what a whole bunch of people think. If Bernie goes too deep into all this diversity and political identity crap to silence his Berniebro critics, he will destroy his campaign and lose Independents. The appeal of Bernie has been his inclusive agenda, applying remedy to all no matter station, race, or gender just like Social Security and Medicare do. If he starts picking winners and losers, he is done. No Democrats and no Independents means four more years of Trump, which I would rather have than Kamala Harris or Biden.

—

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Submitted by dkmich on Wed, 03/06/2019 - 10:12am

For the record, I feel the same way about #MeToo

@dkmich @dkmich

I think your responses are good. I would add if I were Bernie that I agree with Kamala and the other candidates on reparations. Then I would go on to say everything you said. He cannot come out in favor of this unreasonable ask because the idea of reparations to a handful of direct descendants of slaves is ridiculous while so many other people, i.e. native Americans, poor whites, et al, are still oppressed. Can any female who was of childbearing age when abortions were illegal demand reparations? How about all the women who were denied their right to vote for years by law? Besides being ridiculous, unreasonable, and ineffective, reparations are divisive. Just like BLM was divisive. If you want allies in your fight, all lives matter, all oppressed and wronged people matter, all people matter. Here is another great article on Ghion by Theodore Fikre. It was written a while ago, but it is resurfacing on Twitter because of ADOS all the reparations furor. The #ADOS movement is a typical veal pen creation, cutting off its nose to spite a white face and Bernie. The Absurdity of Saying “White Privilege” BY TEODROSE FIKRE ON MAY 14, 2017 I will admit, I was a part of the same crowd I’m now picking up a pen to speak against. I, too, once went around foolishly talking about “white privilege” this or “white people are evil” that. This was not too long ago; a time when I used to see justice through colored binoculars. I was part and parcel of the very divisive culture I thought I was speaking against. It took two years of hardship to finally shed my blinders and see injustice as it is without putting an adjective in front of it. This is the wisdom I earned through hardship. Using rhetoric like “white supremacy” and “white privilege” is a way of stereotyping the whole of “white” people and lumping everyone into one group. This is the surest way to turn potential allies in the struggle for justice into adversaries; by doing so we end up perpetuating the very divides that the “system” depends on to splinter people apart. Moreover, it is a blatant lie that being “white” automatically confers some type of privilege. Just because some or even most might have it easier being a certain complexion does not mean all enjoy that privilege. True enough we have it hard being “black” and institutional racism is no joke; but there are tens of millions of “white” people who suffer generational poverty in the Appalachians and beyond that matches the poverty faced by “African-Americans” and “minorities” in the inner cities. Do we have to negate the suffering of others in order to show that we suffer? Be sure to read the whole thing. It expresses what a whole bunch of people think. If Bernie goes too deep into all this diversity and political identity crap to silence his Berniebro critics, he will destroy his campaign and lose Independents. The appeal of Bernie has been his inclusive agenda, applying remedy to all no matter station, race, or gender just like Social Security and Medicare do. If he starts picking winners and losers, he is done. No Democrats and no Independents means four more years of Trump, which I would rather have than Kamala Harris or Biden.

—

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Wed, 03/06/2019 - 10:50am

Teodrose Fikre

@dkmich I really love Teodrose Fikre's writing. I remember reading the article you linked. IMO, there is a great sense of humanity in his essays.

I think your responses are good. I would add if I were Bernie that I agree with Kamala and the other candidates on reparations. Then I would go on to say everything you said. He cannot come out in favor of this unreasonable ask because the idea of reparations to a handful of direct descendants of slaves is ridiculous while so many other people, i.e. native Americans, poor whites, et al, are still oppressed. Can any female who was of childbearing age when abortions were illegal demand reparations? How about all the women who were denied their right to vote for years by law? Besides being ridiculous, unreasonable, and ineffective, reparations are divisive. Just like BLM was divisive. If you want allies in your fight, all lives matter, all oppressed and wronged people matter, all people matter. Here is another great article on Ghion by Theodore Fikre. It was written a while ago, but it is resurfacing on Twitter because of ADOS all the reparations furor. The #ADOS movement is a typical veal pen creation, cutting off its nose to spite a white face and Bernie. The Absurdity of Saying “White Privilege” BY TEODROSE FIKRE ON MAY 14, 2017 I will admit, I was a part of the same crowd I’m now picking up a pen to speak against. I, too, once went around foolishly talking about “white privilege” this or “white people are evil” that. This was not too long ago; a time when I used to see justice through colored binoculars. I was part and parcel of the very divisive culture I thought I was speaking against. It took two years of hardship to finally shed my blinders and see injustice as it is without putting an adjective in front of it. This is the wisdom I earned through hardship. Using rhetoric like “white supremacy” and “white privilege” is a way of stereotyping the whole of “white” people and lumping everyone into one group. This is the surest way to turn potential allies in the struggle for justice into adversaries; by doing so we end up perpetuating the very divides that the “system” depends on to splinter people apart. Moreover, it is a blatant lie that being “white” automatically confers some type of privilege. Just because some or even most might have it easier being a certain complexion does not mean all enjoy that privilege. True enough we have it hard being “black” and institutional racism is no joke; but there are tens of millions of “white” people who suffer generational poverty in the Appalachians and beyond that matches the poverty faced by “African-Americans” and “minorities” in the inner cities. Do we have to negate the suffering of others in order to show that we suffer? Be sure to read the whole thing. It expresses what a whole bunch of people think. If Bernie goes too deep into all this diversity and political identity crap to silence his Berniebro critics, he will destroy his campaign and lose Independents. The appeal of Bernie has been his inclusive agenda, applying remedy to all no matter station, race, or gender just like Social Security and Medicare do. If he starts picking winners and losers, he is done. No Democrats and no Independents means four more years of Trump, which I would rather have than Kamala Harris or Biden.

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Submitted by dkmich on Wed, 03/06/2019 - 11:12am

You always say the same thing I do

@gulfgal98

with so much more empathy and tact.

—

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Submitted by gjohnsit on Wed, 03/06/2019 - 11:18am

From your link

@dkmich

If you insist on saying “white privilege”, take a drive down to the Appalachians or failing that go down to your local homeless shelter. There you will find teeming masses of so-called “white” people who are mired in perpetual hopelessness and indigence that will shock your conscience. Would you go up to a “white” homeless person and tell him he has “white privilege”? Think on these things for a second, would you tell a “white” child living in a trailer park who goes to sleep hungry at night that she has “white privilege”? The same root of injustice that robs the inner cities of Chicago of hope and hobbles “black” folk into cyclical poverty is what cripples “white” folks into dependency and privation in states like Idaho, Alabama, and Texas..

I mentioned Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr. for a reason; both of them realized—before they were executed by the wielders of oppression—that universal justice was the only way to overcome the iniquities of those who repress the masses through coercion and manipulation. There is only one way to get to redemption and that is by being inclusive of all those who suffer under the boot of tyranny and economic injustice—this includes “white” people too. We need a big tent that does not exclude people based on race or belief. If we do anything less, if we turn towards antipathy and vengeance, we become the very things we stand against. Our strength is our numbers, if we are not united as one, we will suffer and struggle apart

It's become controversial to acknowledge that black people can enjoy class privilege, and that white people are victims of capitalism too.

— Briahna Joy Gray (@briebriejoy) March 4, 2019

*walking past a homeless man. I reach for my wallet to give him some money, then realize he’s white*
Check your fucking privilege you piece of shit.

— Tom Joad’s Ghost (@Toms_Spectre) December 7, 2018

I think your responses are good. I would add if I were Bernie that I agree with Kamala and the other candidates on reparations. Then I would go on to say everything you said. He cannot come out in favor of this unreasonable ask because the idea of reparations to a handful of direct descendants of slaves is ridiculous while so many other people, i.e. native Americans, poor whites, et al, are still oppressed. Can any female who was of childbearing age when abortions were illegal demand reparations? How about all the women who were denied their right to vote for years by law? Besides being ridiculous, unreasonable, and ineffective, reparations are divisive. Just like BLM was divisive. If you want allies in your fight, all lives matter, all oppressed and wronged people matter, all people matter. Here is another great article on Ghion by Theodore Fikre. It was written a while ago, but it is resurfacing on Twitter because of ADOS all the reparations furor. The #ADOS movement is a typical veal pen creation, cutting off its nose to spite a white face and Bernie. The Absurdity of Saying “White Privilege” BY TEODROSE FIKRE ON MAY 14, 2017 I will admit, I was a part of the same crowd I’m now picking up a pen to speak against. I, too, once went around foolishly talking about “white privilege” this or “white people are evil” that. This was not too long ago; a time when I used to see justice through colored binoculars. I was part and parcel of the very divisive culture I thought I was speaking against. It took two years of hardship to finally shed my blinders and see injustice as it is without putting an adjective in front of it. This is the wisdom I earned through hardship. Using rhetoric like “white supremacy” and “white privilege” is a way of stereotyping the whole of “white” people and lumping everyone into one group. This is the surest way to turn potential allies in the struggle for justice into adversaries; by doing so we end up perpetuating the very divides that the “system” depends on to splinter people apart. Moreover, it is a blatant lie that being “white” automatically confers some type of privilege. Just because some or even most might have it easier being a certain complexion does not mean all enjoy that privilege. True enough we have it hard being “black” and institutional racism is no joke; but there are tens of millions of “white” people who suffer generational poverty in the Appalachians and beyond that matches the poverty faced by “African-Americans” and “minorities” in the inner cities. Do we have to negate the suffering of others in order to show that we suffer? Be sure to read the whole thing. It expresses what a whole bunch of people think. If Bernie goes too deep into all this diversity and political identity crap to silence his Berniebro critics, he will destroy his campaign and lose Independents. The appeal of Bernie has been his inclusive agenda, applying remedy to all no matter station, race, or gender just like Social Security and Medicare do. If he starts picking winners and losers, he is done. No Democrats and no Independents means four more years of Trump, which I would rather have than Kamala Harris or Biden.

Submitted by detroitmechworks on Wed, 03/06/2019 - 8:25am

Reparations were paid to the Japanese

For property seized, unlawful imprisonment, and humiliation. Grand total of 20,000 bucks each to the survivors.

As far as I can tell, it didn't change a lot. The local Japanese community was already working within their own group to ensure that people were taken care of. They thought of themselves as family, and worked hard to create everything that they had. While it did serve to make up for some of the hurt, much of the corporate farms in California would never exist had it not been for scumbags grabbing up Japanese-American Land and never giving it back because "Welp, nobody's responsible... except those people over there! Yell at them!"

How is money going to change the victim status? You get the reparations, which will be a nice low affordable amount, and after the money is spent, what's left?

Reparations are a nice little way to assuage white guilt. Course, if it's paid, it's only going to serve as "Proof" that white people are racist. (Oh you don't think so? Just wait for the propaganda about "If they Weren't Guilty, they wouldn't have paid Reparations!")

Who pays? Because if we're going with the descendants of slave owners, will some black people have to pay reparations to themselves due to the established connection between slave owner DNA and the American Population? What if they don't have anything to pay? Do they go to jail? The REAL Current American Slavery?

Honestly, this is an issue that has not been thought out. With the Japanese Reparations, you could point to specific, recent harm, and pay an amount of money to apologize. It was weregild, and the American Government was right to do it, especially considering the actions of the 442 and numerous other Japanese Americans during the war.

With slavery, especially considering it's still going on, any payment will be to the people with political connections, not those harmed. That's why I'm against them. Of course, that's a lot more nuanced than just saying "I'm Against Reparations" which is why it doesn't fit in a soundbite.

And random song because I feel like it.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaNbm6bwid4]

—

I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

Submitted by dkmich on Wed, 03/06/2019 - 9:29am

At the risk of sounding insensitive, which I'm pretty good at,

@detroitmechworks @detroitmechworks

tell them to go stand in line. How about all the property falsely confiscated and people falsely imprisoned because of the war on drugs? How about native Americans who lost a whole country and were imprisoned on reservations? How about all the people who had their homes wrongly stolen by the banks and were sentenced to a life of debt and poverty?

The two things this country never runs short of are bombs and injustice.

For property seized, unlawful imprisonment, and humiliation. Grand total of 20,000 bucks each to the survivors. As far as I can tell, it didn't change a lot. The local Japanese community was already working within their own group to ensure that people were taken care of. They thought of themselves as family, and worked hard to create everything that they had. While it did serve to make up for some of the hurt, much of the corporate farms in California would never exist had it not been for scumbags grabbing up Japanese-American Land and never giving it back because "Welp, nobody's responsible... except those people over there! Yell at them!" How is money going to change the victim status? You get the reparations, which will be a nice low affordable amount, and after the money is spent, what's left? Reparations are a nice little way to assuage white guilt. Course, if it's paid, it's only going to serve as "Proof" that white people are racist. (Oh you don't think so? Just wait for the propaganda about "If they Weren't Guilty, they wouldn't have paid Reparations!") Who pays? Because if we're going with the descendants of slave owners, will some black people have to pay reparations to themselves due to the established connection between slave owner DNA and the American Population? What if they don't have anything to pay? Do they go to jail? The REAL Current American Slavery? Honestly, this is an issue that has not been thought out. With the Japanese Reparations, you could point to specific, recent harm, and pay an amount of money to apologize. It was weregild, and the American Government was right to do it, especially considering the actions of the 442 and numerous other Japanese Americans during the war. With slavery, especially considering it's still going on, any payment will be to the people with political connections, not those harmed. That's why I'm against them. Of course, that's a lot more nuanced than just saying "I'm Against Reparations" which is why it doesn't fit in a soundbite. And random song because I feel like it. [video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaNbm6bwid4]

—

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Submitted by detroitmechworks on Wed, 03/06/2019 - 8:47am

More money isn't going to solve systemic abuse

@dkmich But as usual, it's not about fixing the system, it's all about grabbing whatever you can before the new owners show up to take possession of the bar.

—

I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

Submitted by lotlizard on Thu, 03/07/2019 - 3:51am

The U.S. annexed Hawaii against the will of her people

@dkmich
https://www.hawaiiankingdom.info/

Sadly, in Germany it’s only people on the fringe such as the Reichsbürger who would best understand Hawaiians . . .

The German establishment — not just the governing Christian Democrats and Social Democrats, but also the Greens and the Left Party — support the U.S. empire all the way nowadays.

Witness the German ambassador to Venezuela turning out to back “Random Guy” Guaido:
https://www.dw.com/en/german-ambassador-to-venezuela-declared-persona-no...

Submitted by gjohnsit on Wed, 03/06/2019 - 10:28am

What about all the exceptions?

@detroitmechworks

Honestly, this is an issue that has not been thought out.

link The census of 1830 lists 3,775 free Negroes who owned a total of 12,760 slaves.

Paying based on skin-color means some reparation payments will go to descendants of slave-owners.
Plus, it's been so many generations that descendants of slaves and slave-owners have inter-married.
Plus, lots of black people have migrated to America since 1865.
Plus native Americans were also enslaved.

And that's just off the top of my head.

For property seized, unlawful imprisonment, and humiliation. Grand total of 20,000 bucks each to the survivors. As far as I can tell, it didn't change a lot. The local Japanese community was already working within their own group to ensure that people were taken care of. They thought of themselves as family, and worked hard to create everything that they had. While it did serve to make up for some of the hurt, much of the corporate farms in California would never exist had it not been for scumbags grabbing up Japanese-American Land and never giving it back because "Welp, nobody's responsible... except those people over there! Yell at them!" How is money going to change the victim status? You get the reparations, which will be a nice low affordable amount, and after the money is spent, what's left? Reparations are a nice little way to assuage white guilt. Course, if it's paid, it's only going to serve as "Proof" that white people are racist. (Oh you don't think so? Just wait for the propaganda about "If they Weren't Guilty, they wouldn't have paid Reparations!") Who pays? Because if we're going with the descendants of slave owners, will some black people have to pay reparations to themselves due to the established connection between slave owner DNA and the American Population? What if they don't have anything to pay? Do they go to jail? The REAL Current American Slavery? Honestly, this is an issue that has not been thought out. With the Japanese Reparations, you could point to specific, recent harm, and pay an amount of money to apologize. It was weregild, and the American Government was right to do it, especially considering the actions of the 442 and numerous other Japanese Americans during the war. With slavery, especially considering it's still going on, any payment will be to the people with political connections, not those harmed. That's why I'm against them. Of course, that's a lot more nuanced than just saying "I'm Against Reparations" which is why it doesn't fit in a soundbite. And random song because I feel like it. [video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaNbm6bwid4]

Submitted by dkmich on Wed, 03/06/2019 - 11:25am

Not thought out at all.

@gjohnsit

WHEN ITALIANS WERE “BLACKS”: THE DARK-SKINNED SICILIANS

Southern Italians were considered “black” in the South and were subjected to the Jim Crow laws of segregation. They weren’t allowed to marry “whites.” It was difficult, damn near impossible.

They were designated as “black” on census forms if they lived in the South and that is because the majority of them were dark-skinned Sicilians.

Mass lynchings happened to them often.

One of the biggest mass lynchings happened to Italians in New Orleans when they thought that a Italian immigrant had killed a “white” police officer.

It was highly unlikely (damn near impossible) for a Southern Italian to own a slave because they were seen as the same as blacks, and at the time, they were the second (right behind blacks) most discriminated against group.

Definitions of whiteness in the United States

Italian Americans
Main article: Italian Americans
In certain parts of the South during the Jim Crow era, Southern Italians "occupied a racial middle ground within the otherwise unforgiving, binary caste system of white-over-black." Though Italians were viewed as white for purposes of naturalization and voting, their social standing was that they represented a "problem at best." Their racial status was impacted by their appearance and that they did not "act" white, engaging in manual labor ordinarily reserved for blacks. The trial of nineteen Italian immigrants for the murder of New Orleans police chief David Hennessy in 1890, which ended in the lynching of eleven of them by a white vigilante group, sparked debate in the press over Italians supposed racial characteristics. Italians continued to occupy a "middle ground in the racial order" through the 1920s.[82]:55–62

It is important to move forward and to stop slavery and discrimination in the here and now.

—

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Submitted by dkmich on Wed, 03/06/2019 - 12:52pm

Further the thought of not thought out at all...

@dkmich @dkmich

I am going to just drop these links here. It is not my intent to dismiss slavery or the death and misery the transAtlantic slave trade perpetrated on 12.5 million Africans. (God bless capitalism.) My only point is that there are so many wrongs in the world past and present that it makes my heart heavy. I want to right them all, and there is really no way to do that. What makes one victim worthy [of reparation] and the other not? There are two people drowning in the ocean and you can only save one. One is old, has no family, and is a surgeon for Doctors without Borders. The other is young with small children, unemployed, and a drug addict. Which one do you pick and why?

White Cargo
The Forgotten History of Britain’s White Slaves in America
https://nyupress.org/books/9780814742969/Front

And a review of this book.

White Cargo: The Forgotten History of Britain’s White Slaves in America
Eamonn Gearon, August 19, 2008

White Cargo tells the story of the 300,000 plus urchins, prostitutes, criminals and those without social blemish or criminal record who were taken from the British Isles during the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries and sent as forced labour to the American colonies. While the circumstances and stories of those shipped across the Atlantic against their will differed, the horrors of the journey did not. Sadly for them, the arrival marked the start of the living nightmare that was life in what would later be called “the land of the free.” The sole consolation for the “indentured servants” was that their life expectancy in the American colonies was two years.

A book on slavery and its brutalities could be a depressing read, but this is not. Rather than cause depression, the material is so shocking that it is more likely to provoke anger. Don Jordan and Michael Walsh use diaries, letters and court and government documents to create a work that deals sensitively with suffering while avoiding sentimentality and sensationalism. Ample references and notes also prove useful, allowing one to follow up any of the copious sources used. For all of the evil that the subject matter portrays, the book reads extremely well and leaves one feeling that visceral disgust for such a trade.

An extensive article in Slate on slavery of and by native Americans.
America’s Other Original Sin
Europeans didn’t just displace Native Americans—they enslaved them, and encouraged tribes to participate in the slave trade, on a scale historians are only beginning to fathom.

An excerpt From Wikipedia

European enslavement of Native Americans
When Europeans arrived as colonists in North America, Native Americans changed their practice of slavery dramatically.[3] Native Americans began selling war captives to Europeans rather than integrating them into their own societies as they had done before. As the demand for labor in the West Indies grew with the cultivation of sugar cane, Europeans enslaved Native Americans for the Thirteen Colonies, and some were exported to the "sugar islands." The British settlers, especially those in the southern colonies, purchased or captured Native Americans to use as forced labor in cultivating tobacco, rice, and indigo. Accurate records of the numbers enslaved do not exist. Scholars estimate tens of thousands of Native Americans may have been enslaved by the Europeans, being sold by Native Americans themselves or European men.

—

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Submitted by Mark from Queens on Wed, 03/06/2019 - 8:47am

There's a lot more to say on this than I have time for now...

But first and foremost, he should make an unequivocal acknowledgement that this would be the right thing to do. The semantics and details don't need to be ironed out for people to at least have this understanding.

The central problem seems to be that, as with most everything we learn in this country's education system (propaganda and omission serving to obscure and taint the truth), so few have anywhere near a real understanding of how fundamentally fucked up, destructive, pervasive and indelible the horrors of slavery have been in this country.

The effects, psychically and economically among other things, are still very much with us today in 2019.

I agree that it's another backroom MSM/DNC collusion to create a wedge issue to undermine Bernie. But there are ways for him to take the high road while not letting it derail him.

—

"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:

THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"

- Kurt Vonnegut

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Wed, 03/06/2019 - 10:57am

Great essay, gjohnsit

I like your approach to trying to undo the injustice of slavery. Giving money today simply does not undo the past. But investing money today in people and communities (and I include native Americans among others in that group) harmed by government policies of both the past and today is the far wiser and more productive way to begin to try to undo the long term harm done to these communities and people.

Excellent essay!

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Submitted by Unabashed Liberal on Wed, 03/06/2019 - 12:17pm

'IP' is the primary lens through which 2020 Presidential

election is being reported by the Cable News Channels (and, to some extent, some mainstream print media, although I read less and less of it, to make a judgment of where they're coming from).

IMO, this has a lot more to do with DT--and making the case that he's a racist, than it does with the media setting a trap for Bernie. Cable News 'talking heads' declare almost daily that a white man is (more or less) passe, when it comes to garnering the Dem Party nomination--including Uncle Joe.

Another reason I come to this conclusion, is because IP has been a main topic on two Cable News Channels--CNN and MSNBC--for almost 3 years. (To a lesser degree, on Fox. They have always discussed a staple of IP issues from the conservative viewpoint.) IOW, far more of Cable News coverage or air time has been devoted to IP issues, compared to when 'O' was President.

I 'suspect' that one of the drivers of this narrative is to increase AA participation in the upcoming election. According to a CNN analyst, AA women will decide the 2020 election--further, it was because this same cohort sat out the 2016 election cycle, that DT won. My 'guess' is that this takeaway is partly due to Doug Jones win in the Alabama Senate race. And, I figure that this trend will grow.

One other thing, for several months, various analysts have predicted that the Dem candidates will be thoroughly vetted this election cycle. So, what we're seeing, is probably only the tip of the iceberg.

Regarding "balance" in reporting, that went out the window several years ago. So, wouldn't sweat it too much.

Blue Onyx

I think dogs are the most amazing creatures; they give unconditional love. For me they are the role model for being alive.
~~Gilda Radner, Comedienne

Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues, but the parent of all others.
~~Cicero

The obstacle is the path.
~~Zen Proverb

—

Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

Submitted by dkmich on Wed, 03/06/2019 - 1:00pm

On Twitter, Hillbots & ADOS

@Unabashed Liberal

are focused on #neverBernie. Hillbots no matter what, and ADOS if he doesn't support reparations. There is a major and concerted effort to make Bernie and his supporters white, racist, and sexist. It is no coincidence that Democrats believe that women and African Americans are the key to their electoral victory. They do not want Bernie to have them and are doing everything they can to create a rift.

—

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Submitted by SnappleBC on Wed, 03/06/2019 - 2:22pm

So when they "fully vet" those candidates...

@Unabashed Liberal

I assume we will be hearing constantly how Gillibrand just tried to lie us into a war. She flat out stated that Guido was the lawfully elected president of Venezuela. I'm waiting to hear what date that election took place on. I am assuming that the Democratic establishment will find Bush's Iraq WMD thing unacceptable, right?

From the lips of a neoliberal, what "fully vetted" means is that they are going to dig up and make up as much "opposition research" as possible... just as they did with the Steele Dossier. That will entirely and totally be targetted at those challenging the establishment narrative... Sanders and Gabbard.

I'm not guessing. This is not really a prediction. We are watching it happen today. But hey, I'm good with that because more people are wise to their ways in 2020 than in 2016. I, for instance, didn't actually believe the Dems would rig their own primary.

—

A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard