Why public grave dancing should not be censored.

Submitted by Battle of Blair... on Sat, 12/01/2018 - 3:24pm

Some of you are young enough not to remember the days before the internet. In those days, the media could muffle public outcries, turn a blind eye to protests. Movements like we see nowadays were not possible because it was easier to keep them compartmentalized. Outrage didn't go viral. People as a whole didn't get woke. An insidious form of censorship existed back then. It was censorship through ignorance. Ignorance maintained by simply not reporting on the things that were actually going on.

Because of this lack of widespread, instant knowledge, lies like the Gulf of Tonkin could exist and millions could die and be maimed in wars every adult I knew during Nam understood to be lies, just so long as everyone remained unawares that everybody else, everywhere you went felt the same way.

We were never united. We were easy to divide and conquer.

The internet changed all that.

Believe it or not, however, the internet is still a place where that same type of insidious censorship exists. Many websites won't allow criticism of Israel, calling it antisemitic. Many websites are echo chambers, banning anyone who would criticize their narrative.

Most of us came from one such website.

Nothing in this day and age is more important than the freedom to say what we feel, as we feel it, without being shamed or pressured to conform to someone else's viewpoint. Even if what we say or feel is - in the eyes of the other person - in very bad taste. Haven't we learned already that the minute you censor some right wing extremist is the minute you censor all of us?

Which is why I find it abhorrent that over on Jackpineradicals, one of my favorite websites, they are censoring anyone who wants to "dance on the grave" of the now deceased George H.W. Bush.

This isn't about decorum, good taste, or taking a moral high ground. It isn't about someone's opinion of what should be the proper respect to show the dead. All those things are viewpoints and there are plenty of viewpoints out there up to and including announcing a day of celebration and ranting endlessly about what a piece of shit Bush was.

ALL valid points of view. ALL valid free speech.

But something more important is happening here and this is why I feel public grave dancing should not be censored. It's the same thing when everyone knew Nam was only about money but not everyone knew that everyone else knew it. We remained divided by ignorance. Publicly shaming and ridiculing a man who committed so many crimes is a NECESSITY to put an end to this form of insidious censorship. We ALL hated the man. We all need to know that we all hated the man. Most importantly, we need to share WHY we hated the man. So that we might recognize men like him more easily. So that their words no longer have any control over us because we've seen how they use their words and what deeds they are capable of.

We need to let the internet do what the internet does. Share.

Shame on Jackpineradicals for not getting that.

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Submitted by pro left on Sat, 12/01/2018 - 3:39pm

and I believe that anyone that wants to do a little 2 step is more than welcome.

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Submitted by Battle of Blair... on Sat, 12/01/2018 - 6:27pm

@pro left [video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdvITn5cAVc]

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Submitted by arendt on Sat, 12/01/2018 - 3:47pm
arendt's picture

One day, I simply couldn't log in. I tried contacting them through other JPR members I knew, but JPR refused to communicate with me.

Prior to being ejected, I had had a running argument with the moderators about describing the historical (1880-1940) fact of Zionism. I was informed that I was an anti-semite for using that term, when, in fact today, there are plenty of pro-Israel operations with the Z word in their title. When, in fact, I was not criticizing Israel, but merely laying out the history of Palestine.

IMHO, JPR is another flea circus. They will not tolerate criticism of Israel.

Now, it seems, they will not tolerate criticism of Poppy Bush - a filthy rich, duplicitous slimeball from a family of fascists who was a CIA asset his entire adult life. He and McStain can play tennis in hell.

Dog bless c99p for letting me say that.

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Submitted by Deja on Sat, 12/01/2018 - 3:56pm
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@arendt
Love it!

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Submitted by Battle of Blair... on Sat, 12/01/2018 - 4:37pm

@arendt Well, I had my reservations about that place. Too many questionable posters on there who seemed to be shills or Deep State employees.

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Submitted by Bessie on Sun, 12/02/2018 - 4:25pm

@Battle of Blair Mountain @earthling1
Hope I'm replying correctly. I hit the reply button and I received a note to not use this form?

Anyway, just curious if you were banned for something you did at a different site. But then, you seem to not have known you were banned

Regardless, I think the no grave dancing is ridiculous

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Submitted by Sirena on Mon, 12/03/2018 - 5:41pm

@arendt

Yeah, they don't even have the guts to ban you, because they can't, if one's not broken any of the rules or TOS.

If they just don't happen to like what you say, or you or one's viewpoint they just stop you from loggin back in.

Real cowards over there.

I've always thought they were working for the man, on the payroll.

When things didn't work out with the last boss, and no-one, or almost no-one except the trolls were going along with the directive, they brought in the new boss.

New boss, same as the old boss.

And again they are making their motives transparent.

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Submitted by arendt on Mon, 12/03/2018 - 7:17pm
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@Sirena

...the details of what sounds like an organizational change.

When things didn't work out with the last boss, and no-one, or almost no-one except the trolls were going along with the directive, they brought in the new boss.

When I was there, the "boss" was MannyG. The sysad was mary625 or somesuch handle. Both screamingly pro-Israel. From their personal comments, they made it sound like a barebones operation, with just the two of them doing all the heavy lifting.

Are they the "boss" that got the boot? Who booted them? Who, then, is paying for the "new boss". Who is the new boss?

Just curious. Haven't looked at the page since they kicked me out.

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Submitted by Sirena on Mon, 12/03/2018 - 7:28pm

@arendt @arendt

You are not the only one who has been disenfranchised.

email me. We've done so before.

Or I'll email you.

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Submitted by Battle of Blair... on Tue, 12/04/2018 - 2:16am

@arendt manny and mary are gone. Ohio Barbarian and a few others have taken the reigns.

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Submitted by earthling1 on Sat, 12/01/2018 - 3:48pm
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If you don't want to be dissed in your death, don't do monstrous things in your lifetime.
We don't celebrate Hitlers birthday for a reason.
We celebrate Columbus Day, even though he was responsible for the deaths of tens of millions of indigenous natives.
This must change.

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Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 12/01/2018 - 6:58pm
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@earthling1

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Was Humpty Dumpty pushed?

Submitted by divineorder on Sat, 12/01/2018 - 7:28pm
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@snoopydawg

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A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

Submitted by Battle of Blair... on Tue, 12/04/2018 - 2:18am

@snoopydawg jpr banned that too.

Not even Caitlin is allowed to bad mouth the devil.

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Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 12/01/2018 - 7:24pm
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@earthling1

25 Years Later: Remembering the Amiriyah Shelter Massacre in Iraq

In the morning of February 13, 1991, just before dawn, U.S. planes dropped two 2,000-pound “smart bombs” on a civilian shelter in the Amiriyah neighborhood of Baghdad, Iraq, killing at least 400 civilians. The Pentagon was fully aware that the facility had been used as a civilian shelter during the Iran-Iraq War and never made any announcements indicating that they considered the shelter’s protected status to have ended. The tragedy of Al Amiriyah resulted in the largest loss of civilian lives to occur in one incident over the course of the First Gulf War, a U.S.-led military response to Saddam Hussein’s invasion of Kuwait. Brutal sanctions sponsored by the United States, the United Kingdom, and the United Nations followed the war and remained in place for over a decade, blocking the entrance of medicine, food, school supplies, and other essentials into Iraq.

Over the course of the nearly two-month Gulf War, densely-populated areas, water-treatment plants, bridges, electric stations, medical facilities, and even shelters, like the one in Amiriyah, were purposefully targeted on the pretext that they served the needs of the Iraqi army. Under international humanitarian law, civilians and civilian objects may never be the deliberate target of attacks. But they paid no heed.

Didn't Pompeo recently scold Iran for committing crimes against humanity and said that they should be held accountable for their actions? Why yes, yes he did stand before the world and said that. Why he wasn't thrown out of the room is beyond me. Maybe it was because he was talking to a room full of other war criminals. Maybe.

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Submitted by dkmich on Sat, 12/01/2018 - 4:02pm

I am glad c99 is here and gives us the freedom to express ourselves. This place is about sharing, caring, truth, and the freedom to speak our words no matter how wise, dumb, cultured, or distasteful they may be. As kindred as we can be, we are also as diverse and differing as Anytown, USA.

Wait till you see the party we throw when Kissenger bites the dust.

Dance 4 Dance 4 Dance 4

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Submitted by divineorder on Sat, 12/01/2018 - 4:44pm
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@dkmich
in preparation of the day Kissinger dies.


No Friend of Kissinger Scott Wooledge Retweeted

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A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 12/01/2018 - 5:11pm
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@dkmich

Ole Dick was right there with George when he did many heinous things. The Twitter-verse is full of pictures of people who were complicit in George's acts. Saw one where he is pinning a medal on George Jr. Lil George looks like a dweeb.

Anyone who used to describe themselves as leftists and are singing the praises of Bush today are full of shit. They did the same thing when No Name died. "He put his life on the line for this country"
Um, no they didn't!

Heh .... I'm in a bad mood today so I'm thinking of having some fun on Twitter. Anyone who tweets this crap might get a link to Butler's book.

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Submitted by Big Al on Sat, 12/01/2018 - 4:03pm
Big Al's picture

Hmm. So it's OK to say he was probably involved in the JFK assassination, committed treason while at the CIA and committed war crimes, including murdering innocent children, as president. But it's not OK to call him a lying serial killer psycho while saying hallelujah?
Got it. Makes perfect sense.

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Submitted by divineorder on Sat, 12/01/2018 - 4:48pm
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@Big Al

..

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A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

Submitted by on the cusp on Sat, 12/01/2018 - 4:11pm

and imply that made him a mass murderer? hmmm...

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 12/01/2018 - 7:16pm
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@on the cusp

If You Murdered A Bunch Of People, Mass Murder Is Your Single Defining Legacy

Think of an acquaintance of yours. Not someone you’re particularly close to, just some guy in the cast of extras from the scenery of your life. Now, imagine learning that that guy is a serial murderer, who has been prowling the streets for years stabbing people to death. Imagine he goes his whole life without ever suffering any consequences for murdering all those people, and then when he dies, everyone wants to talk about how great he was and share heartwarming anecdotes about him. If you try to bring up the whole serial killing thing, people react with sputtering outrage that you would dare to speak ill of such a noble and wonderful person.

“Look, I didn’t agree with everything he did, but you can’t just let one not-so-great thing from a man’s life eclipse all the other good things he’s accomplished,” they protest. “For example, did you know he was a baseball captain at Yale?”

“But… what about all those people he murdered?” you reply.

“God, why can’t you just pay respect to a great man in our time of mourning??” they shout in exasperation.
*
Whenever I hold my customary public “good riddance” social media celebration after a war pig dies, I always get people telling me they hope I die for saying such a thing. And of course I am aware that I am courting controversy by saying immediately after someone’s death that the world is better off without them, and hostile reactions necessarily come along with that. But I also think it says so much about people’s deification of these child-killing elites that simply being glad to see them leave this world, peacefully of old age and in their own homes, is seen as such an unforgivable offense that it deserves nothing short of death. I suppose that’s how high of a pedestal you need to place someone on above the ordinary people in order to see their acts of mass murder as insignificant little foibles instead of horrific atrocities which define their entire personhood. In the eyes of the thoroughly propagandized public, they are gods, as the nonstop fawning beatification of Poppy Bush makes abundantly clear.

US presidents are not special. They are not made of any different kind of substance than you or I. When they order the extermination of large numbers of human lives for no legitimate reason, they are as guilty as you or I would be if we murdered each and every one of those people ourselves, personally. And if you or I had done such a thing during our lives, we both know people wouldn’t be spending their time after we die talking about how delightful and charming we were.

George Herbert Walker Bush was a mass murderer, and the only reason that undeniable fact isn’t dominating public discourse today is because of the myopia caused by a deeply unjust power dynamic.

I explained this to a dude on Twitter who asked if Glenn could wait a day before he says bad things about George. How many times has this happened? Take Warren's tweet below where she says that gobblly gook nice crap about him. Anyone think tomorrow she will tweet something about that time when we bombed the hell out of the Iraqi troops that were going home from Kuwait? Nah, me neither.

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Submitted by thanatokephaloides on Sat, 12/01/2018 - 4:22pm
thanatokephaloides's picture

But something more important is happening here and this is why I feel public grave dancing should not be censored. It's the same thing when everyone knew Nam was only about money but not everyone knew that everyone else knew it. We remained divided by ignorance. Publicly shaming and ridiculing a man who committed so many crimes is a NECESSITY to put an end to this form of insidious censorship. We ALL hated the man. We all need to know that we all hated the man. Most importantly, we need to share WHY we hated the man. So that we might recognize men like him more easily. So that their words no longer have any control over us because we've seen how they use their words and what deeds they are capable of.

"There may come a day I will dance on your grave
If unable to dance I will crawl across it
Unable to dance I'll still crawl....."
source

[video:https://youtu.be/01AC4Y2E0t8]

Smile

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"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Submitted by Battle of Blair... on Sat, 12/01/2018 - 4:40pm

@thanatokephaloides because they loved her and she had taught them the macarena. It was the most beautiful funeral I have ever seen.

Hopefully a meteorite strikes the Bush funeral, taking out all the attendees. That would be the second most beautiful funeral.

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Submitted by thanatokephaloides on Sat, 12/01/2018 - 11:08pm
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@Battle of Blair Mountain

The great grandchildren danced on my grandmothers grave because they loved her and she had taught them the macarena. It was the most beautiful funeral I have ever seen.

That's not the kind of "grave dancing" we're talking about, and you know it. Those great grandchildren were sad to lose their beloved one and were grateful for her, her life, and what she taught them.

On the exact opposite pole, most of us c99ers are grateful that, at long last, George H. W. Bush is dead.

Wink

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Submitted by divineorder on Sat, 12/01/2018 - 5:01pm
divineorder's picture

aren't commenting, etc.

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A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 12/01/2018 - 5:26pm
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@divineorder

Gag me, Liz! You can say something about a person's death without lying about them and rewriting their history..

Caitlin has a great one up. Did you see it?

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Submitted by thanatokephaloides on Sat, 12/01/2018 - 11:21pm
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@snoopydawg

"Devotion to public service"

Gag me, Liz! You can say something about a person's death without lying about them and rewriting their history..

That message smells to me like ol' Liz is laying it on thick. As a brick. With a spade, as a trowel isn't enough. Smile

The old custom of "don't speak ill of the recently deceased" definitely has its limits; and eulogizing George H. W. Bush easily reaches beyond these...... Bad

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Submitted by divineorder on Sat, 12/01/2018 - 5:39pm
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A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 12/01/2018 - 7:42pm
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@divineorder

And her article she wrote today. I'll find the first one I saw if I can. So many people have great zingers.

Found it.

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Submitted by earthling1 on Sat, 12/01/2018 - 5:42pm
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But I'm old enough to remember when the media was regulated and restricted with how many stations could be owned in any given market by an individual or corporation.
There was also the "Fairness Doctrine" that provided for equal broadcast air time to any opposing viewpoints to editorial positions promoted by those stations, commonly known as editorials, usually at the end of each days news broadcast.
I used to hang on the words of those replying to George Putnam, a local L.A. conservative newscaster whom I disliked immensely.
In the 60s and early 70s there were a number of liberal news stations and news outlets, especially print.
It wasn't until the 80s and Reagan deregulating the FCC that we lost the FD and all restrictions on ownership. This was the beginning of wealthy conservatives buying up ALL radio, print, and television media.
The beginning of the end of real news.
It's been pure propaganda ever since.
Thanks for and otherwise great post that was spot on.

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Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.

Submitted by Battle of Blair... on Sat, 12/01/2018 - 6:37pm

@earthling1 You see, there was a time when America was becoming socialist. FDR helped ease that transition with his New Deal. Prescott Bush and other fascists tried to kill him but the coup was exposed. So instead they maneuvered to take over from within and succeeded with the installment of Harry Truman as VP. They also got the CIA established, what I call the Confederate Intelligence Agency but most would agree it is the Corporate Intelligence Arm.

But that didn't end things, it just forestalled them. McCarthyism was required to silence the left media presence. Then, when JFK threatened thier power base during Operation Zapata, this lead to Bush Sr. leading a hit squad to kill an American president.

By 1980, after Bush led the October Surprise, the fascists had Ronny firmly installed and now they moved to entrench control so that socialism would never rise again. First step: Reagan gutted the FCC. The end goal is what you see today and that always was the goal in mind when they did it.

Many of us, myself included, saw and recognized these things. Until the internet, we had no way to reach out to the public and educate them.

JPR would evidently like things to remain that way, suppressing free speech and allowing the media to romanticize a devil.

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Submitted by Tall Bald and Ugly on Sun, 12/02/2018 - 10:42am

@earthling1 did plenty of bad shit to the fcc, it was Clinton(96) that signed the telecommunications act allowing consolidation of broadcast/print media that has led to 94% of All media being owned by 6 rich fuckers.
Didn't like Raygun, don't like Clenis. Didn't want to leave him out.
I'm doing the shake, shuffle and Roll myself!

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Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .

If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march

Submitted by earthling1 on Sun, 12/02/2018 - 11:20am
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@Tall Bald and Ugly
That was largely Slick Willie and his band of crooks that sealed the fates of countless journalists, turning them into "talking heads".
The days of bubbleheaded bleached blondes indoctrinating us with the "news" came upon us.
I do hope that shake, shuffle, and roll isn't an indication you've left the Cali Coast. Were you impacted by the fires/mudslides/quakes?
And hows the big guy doing?

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Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.

Submitted by pindar's revenge on Sun, 12/02/2018 - 5:50pm

@earthling1

by changing the law so that foreigners (Murdoch was Aussie) could own American media. This led directly to the institutionalized deep right state medium we now have, Fox -- and I imagine also the Sinclair chain of dittoed tv stations, since they seem to be associated with Fux.

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Submitted by entrepreneur on Sun, 12/02/2018 - 4:50pm

of the policy to the point where Caitlin's article was pulled down without explanation. Then, in a sub-thread exchange with another user about the article being inexplicably censored my posting attempts were blocked with no explanation. I can't help but wonder if they have found a sponsor. Because, while I acknowledge that one's opinion regarding where to draw the line in the interest of good taste and decorum can reasonably vary from person to person, the degree of tyranny imposed surrounding the GHWB episode was far more insane than a few moderators doing their job in a well balanced manner. They lost their goddamned minds.

I have zero tolerance for censorship. I left on my own accord. They aren't the JPR I once joined if they think censorship is ok. No more clicks. No more money.

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Submitted by Whatchamacallit on Mon, 12/03/2018 - 5:20pm

and I’ll be surprised if it makes it another year. The new owners are exceedingly dim. It’s morphing into a DU wannabe as we speak.

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Submitted by Battle of Blair... on Tue, 12/04/2018 - 2:21am

Originally.
Sorta like Israel becoming as evil as nazi germany.

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Submitted by Whatchamacallit on Thu, 12/06/2018 - 10:57am

Two days after my being banned for simply questioning their servile decree of compulsory deference to Bush, they’re trying to act like it never happened. Even their authoritarian enforcer mod has now joined in the Bush bashing in an obvious attempt to salvage some cred. I just checked and I’m still secretly locked out, but of course they’re keeping my name on the roster to pad their membership numbers. Fucking frauds the lot of them.

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