@Pluto's Republic Really good and clear comment, and true true true.

...may be useful for the Left in general because the nation looks to us to define what Socialism means in the context of a developed nation, and in the context of the US in particular. But this argument is mostly a strawman distraction since the fact is that all developed nations on this planet are socialist nations. The US is socialist, as well, it has simply executed a sabotaged version of it, which has resulted in a despairing population with none of the basic human rights defined by the United Nations.

Rugged libertarians don't build nations, they build compounds. Capitalists don't build nations, they build debt-based financial empires, gated enclaves, company towns, plantations, and
for-profit prisons. Conservatives don't build anything resembling a civilization, they build rivers of inequality and pockets of deep, inescapable poverty. Show me a politically conservative nation where the people thrive.

The noise of the current political struggle comes from people pushing against the social limitations that were locked into place by the aristocratic class and their descendants, who still run place based on the global interests of the corporations. They've had a sweet deal for centuries. The people pick up the entire tab the foreign policy-related costs of restoring the Anglo Empire to its ultimate glory as owners and rulers of the melanin+ World. And in return, the great majority of Americans get ever increasing austerity, ever diminishing personal economic security, and tightly throttled social services.

The day that we stop fighting and dying for them, we win. But not one day sooner. Everything else is just a new shade of lipstick.

[edit typo]

@Pluto's Republic
you have outdone yourself. I look forward to reading your comments any time I see them. Thanks.

...may be useful for the Left in general because the nation looks to us to define what Socialism means in the context of a developed nation, and in the context of the US in particular. But this argument is mostly a strawman distraction since the fact is that all developed nations on this planet are socialist nations. The US is socialist, as well, it has simply executed a sabotaged version of it, which has resulted in a despairing population with none of the basic human rights defined by the United Nations.

Rugged libertarians don't build nations, they build compounds. Capitalists don't build nations, they build debt-based financial empires, gated enclaves, company towns, plantations, and
for-profit prisons. Conservatives don't build anything resembling a civilization, they build rivers of inequality and pockets of deep, inescapable poverty. Show me a politically conservative nation where the people thrive.

The noise of the current political struggle comes from people pushing against the social limitations that were locked into place by the aristocratic class and their descendants, who still run place based on the global interests of the corporations. They've had a sweet deal for centuries. The people pick up the entire tab the foreign policy-related costs of restoring the Anglo Empire to its ultimate glory as owners and rulers of the melanin+ World. And in return, the great majority of Americans get ever increasing austerity, ever diminishing personal economic security, and tightly throttled social services.

The day that we stop fighting and dying for them, we win. But not one day sooner. Everything else is just a new shade of lipstick.

[edit typo]

@Pluto's Republic I would like to use this:

Rugged libertarians don't build nations, they build compounds. Capitalists don't build nations, they build debt-based financial empires, gated enclaves, company

What attribution do you want. Commentator Pluto's Republic @ Caucus99% or something else?

...may be useful for the Left in general because the nation looks to us to define what Socialism means in the context of a developed nation, and in the context of the US in particular. But this argument is mostly a strawman distraction since the fact is that all developed nations on this planet are socialist nations. The US is socialist, as well, it has simply executed a sabotaged version of it, which has resulted in a despairing population with none of the basic human rights defined by the United Nations.

Rugged libertarians don't build nations, they build compounds. Capitalists don't build nations, they build debt-based financial empires, gated enclaves, company towns, plantations, and
for-profit prisons. Conservatives don't build anything resembling a civilization, they build rivers of inequality and pockets of deep, inescapable poverty. Show me a politically conservative nation where the people thrive.

The noise of the current political struggle comes from people pushing against the social limitations that were locked into place by the aristocratic class and their descendants, who still run place based on the global interests of the corporations. They've had a sweet deal for centuries. The people pick up the entire tab the foreign policy-related costs of restoring the Anglo Empire to its ultimate glory as owners and rulers of the melanin+ World. And in return, the great majority of Americans get ever increasing austerity, ever diminishing personal economic security, and tightly throttled social services.

The day that we stop fighting and dying for them, we win. But not one day sooner. Everything else is just a new shade of lipstick.

[edit typo]

@Pluto's Republic

You nailed it, Pluto. In simple terms that I can understand too. Commented to bookmark it myself.

...may be useful for the Left in general because the nation looks to us to define what Socialism means in the context of a developed nation, and in the context of the US in particular. But this argument is mostly a strawman distraction since the fact is that all developed nations on this planet are socialist nations. The US is socialist, as well, it has simply executed a sabotaged version of it, which has resulted in a despairing population with none of the basic human rights defined by the United Nations.

Rugged libertarians don't build nations, they build compounds. Capitalists don't build nations, they build debt-based financial empires, gated enclaves, company towns, plantations, and
for-profit prisons. Conservatives don't build anything resembling a civilization, they build rivers of inequality and pockets of deep, inescapable poverty. Show me a politically conservative nation where the people thrive.

The noise of the current political struggle comes from people pushing against the social limitations that were locked into place by the aristocratic class and their descendants, who still run place based on the global interests of the corporations. They've had a sweet deal for centuries. The people pick up the entire tab the foreign policy-related costs of restoring the Anglo Empire to its ultimate glory as owners and rulers of the melanin+ World. And in return, the great majority of Americans get ever increasing austerity, ever diminishing personal economic security, and tightly throttled social services.

The day that we stop fighting and dying for them, we win. But not one day sooner. Everything else is just a new shade of lipstick.

[edit typo]

@Snode

It's not just conservatives it's also most of the democratic leadership, and rank and file.

Which, since the Clinton Administration, have been conservadems. In other words, more conservatives.

And Pluto's remark still stands: "Show me a politically conservative nation where the people thrive."

You can't.

it's also most of the democratic leadership, and rank and file. It's the attempt to put socialism=bad into the "everybody knows" category. I think every US political/governmental system is the way it is because it leaves people out of the equation, and defers to the question of how much does it cost/we can't afford it. If people were at the core, and the concerns for them and their families well being, the power would have to shift away from where it is now.

@The Aspie Corner

all the while the plebs fight amongst themselves over which group is oppressed more because 'Cultural Marxism'.

The bleating over what IdPol beings won in last week's Dem primaries is just the latest case in point. Nobody pays attention to what policies they will fight for; they only care that the candidate is a woman, a Hispanic (I refuse to go down the fake-left politically correct road and call them Latinx.), gay, bi, whatever.

Nobody asks these people what they will do about the military budget, the prison industrial complex, the police state rollout, the overt corporate/MIC censorship of the last month. The questions from the corporate media are all fluff and IP crapola.

Many still believe that if they 'work hard', they can join the bourgeoisie. Not bloody likely. Some even go so far as to believe there are no classes at all.

In fact, it's because of this lack of class consciousness or class struggle that nothing has changed since the 1980s...well, I take that back, things have gotten worse. The pigs looted pensions, destroyed unions, bought and then destroyed/became the government, ramped up the criminal 'wars', all while the plebs fight amongst themselves over which group is oppressed more because 'Cultural Marxism'. Karl Marx himself would slap the taste out of all groups involved in this IdPol crap.

@The Aspie Corner @The Aspie Corner A reporter who followed Trump to all of his rallies wrote that the mass media was distorting those rallies over some staged incident(s) involving some protester at the rally. The media made it seem that Trump was about illegal Mexicans 24/7. In most rallies he came off as a populist building on class issues and resentments. The gop understands class much better than democrats.

Hillary on the other hand, pushed Identity Politics in her messaging. In an ironic way, IP played a critical role in her loss. Not because some white voter rush to Trump, which by the way, never happened, but because she did not appoint an African American as her running mate. She stabbed her black voter base in the back when she picked Kaine. Hillary saw race alright, and it was white.

From a certain angle, Trump won the electoral class war.

Many still believe that if they 'work hard', they can join the bourgeoisie. Not bloody likely. Some even go so far as to believe there are no classes at all.

In fact, it's because of this lack of class consciousness or class struggle that nothing has changed since the 1980s...well, I take that back, things have gotten worse. The pigs looted pensions, destroyed unions, bought and then destroyed/became the government, ramped up the criminal 'wars', all while the plebs fight amongst themselves over which group is oppressed more because 'Cultural Marxism'. Karl Marx himself would slap the taste out of all groups involved in this IdPol crap.

@Mark from Queens and the VP nominee is someone like, say, Amy Klobuchar, (the Dims. strongest ticket, IMHO), it would be fun, fun, fun watching the RW old guy meltdown.

Howsomeever, I think the Dims are going to let Sanders be the nominee so he can loose and then they can say they gave "socialism" a chance and the electorate rejected it. That is no way to treat a revered elder, but then the present day Dim leadership cares nothing for decency.

As many of you know I have a collection of politically confrontational t-shirts that I pretty much wear every day. On this occasion a couple of days ago I was wearing the Socialist Alternative shirt I bought outside of the Quaker Meeting House in Philly during the week of the DNC, incidentally when a handful of we C99ers met for a fun dinner and drinks at the venerable Khyber Pass. It is a play on the Drumpf dumbed-down fascist slogan. In the same lettering it says,"Make Socialism Great Again."

Was the first time in a long while though since something like this happened. I kind of relished it, taken by surprise. Because for the past few years walking around in Leftist shirts has gotten way more support and positive reaction than the contrary.

Anyway, this guy is doing his morning, running-up-the-stairs in the park when I see him and give a friendly wave. I've kind of taken to him because he kind of looks like an ex-football player on the Jets I liked, and when I put it out there in a way to see if he was him, he said he played college ball as a safety. The guy's in good shape, appeared kind and the type of person you might invite to a barbecue or something to hear his football war stories.

I notice he's not waving back but stops his workout and is looking at me. I notice he's wearing a cut-off grey Bud Light sweatshirt. He starts railing about Bernie Sanders owning 5 (?) houses, Soshulism and some other stuff. I start to tell him I don't think that's true, and how many does McCain own, 10, or maybe he doesn't know? Then he's off.

He's frothing rapid-fire about how socialism has killed 100 million people, Venezuela this, free market that, capitalism, blah blah blah. He's practically incoherent in his conditioned rage. Tells me he's 64, and after I tell him the banks and corporations own us all, he tells me he made 200 grand selling horses or something, that we've got the best healthcare system in the world, etc etc.

I begin to see a bad caricature of a completely duped RW fascist. He's spitting every old hack, tired cliche he's heard over decades of having listened to Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly, Regean, Beck, Savage, etc. He spews every canard about Bad Socialism/Good Capitalism that it's laughable. Instead of dismissing him as the sad RW tool he appeared to be I told him that when he calms down I'd sit with him, for an hour and a half if he likes, to discuss this all. Could be my pure idealism and kind of liking the guy up to then (and having had success with another skeptic in the same park). We'll see how he is next time. He may fall into the older white male syndrome of being poisoned by relentless RW "patriotic" and fear-mongering propaganda and lost, like so many we know of.

There's so much to say about this all. It's a very interesting time. Which is why, electoral politics or not, I fully support those running for office who don't back away from fundamental Socialist platforms and principles. Changing The Narrative is one the key linchpins going forward, as far as I'm concerned.

Having calm, considered conversations with neighbors in your community could really change things. I'd add that the divisions might be too built up by the ugly hand of propaganda to even have the conversation. But if it is possible I would always suggest that, like I do myself, that my perceived adversary should also consider swearing off all corporate media forever. That might even be as good as any place to start. Just thinking about this though I know I'm a very impassioned guy and can easily meet aggressive bullshit with aggressive dismissal. It's a test. And I realize it's an opportunity to put into practice all the desire we have for coalescing a movement of the 99% being economically disenfranchised. Identity politics is the nemesis to this.

I'll end by saying I am really relishing the tag team meltdown of the Neoliberals and RW zoombies. They're literally scared shit of what's going on. The Emperor Has No Clothes. And they've got nothing too.

@Mark from Queens

He started off complaining about 'those people' who went to the hospital and got free care. I asked if he saw someone say that they couldn't afford to pay for their care and he said no ... but he heard about them. He then started talking about the other issues that people complain about when they talk about poor people and I went into my spiel about he's just repeating stuff that he's heard and ended with how the real welfare fraud that happens is corporate welfare. He listened to me for 45 and thanked me for telling him what was what.

So many people have been brainwashed into believing the Koch and GOP propaganda like unions are bad and that SS isn't going to be around for them so why should they have to pay into it, etc. That only blacks and minorities are on social programs and every one of them can actually work, but they're just too lazy ...

I used to not understand how people could be so blatantly blind to things and then Russia Gate happened. We keep getting hit with propaganda because it works.

Good luck with the guy. I hope that you have a chance to speak with him and he listens to your comments and doesn't just blow you off. The guy I spoke with said that he will start setting people straight when they repeat those things.

As many of you know I have a collection of politically confrontational t-shirts that I pretty much wear every day. On this occasion a couple of days ago I was wearing the Socialist Alternative shirt I bought outside of the Quaker Meeting House in Philly during the week of the DNC, incidentally when a handful of we C99ers met for a fun dinner and drinks at the venerable Khyber Pass. It is a play on the Drumpf dumbed-down fascist slogan. In the same lettering it says,"Make Socialism Great Again."

Was the first time in a long while though since something like this happened. I kind of relished it, taken by surprise. Because for the past few years walking around in Leftist shirts has gotten way more support and positive reaction than the contrary.

Anyway, this guy is doing his morning, running-up-the-stairs in the park when I see him and give a friendly wave. I've kind of taken to him because he kind of looks like an ex-football player on the Jets I liked, and when I put it out there in a way to see if he was him, he said he played college ball as a safety. The guy's in good shape, appeared kind and the type of person you might invite to a barbecue or something to hear his football war stories.

I notice he's not waving back but stops his workout and is looking at me. I notice he's wearing a cut-off grey Bud Light sweatshirt. He starts railing about Bernie Sanders owning 5 (?) houses, Soshulism and some other stuff. I start to tell him I don't think that's true, and how many does McCain own, 10, or maybe he doesn't know? Then he's off.

He's frothing rapid-fire about how socialism has killed 100 million people, Venezuela this, free market that, capitalism, blah blah blah. He's practically incoherent in his conditioned rage. Tells me he's 64, and after I tell him the banks and corporations own us all, he tells me he made 200 grand selling horses or something, that we've got the best healthcare system in the world, etc etc.

I begin to see a bad caricature of a completely duped RW fascist. He's spitting every old hack, tired cliche he's heard over decades of having listened to Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly, Regean, Beck, Savage, etc. He spews every canard about Bad Socialism/Good Capitalism that it's laughable. Instead of dismissing him as the sad RW tool he appeared to be I told him that when he calms down I'd sit with him, for an hour and a half if he likes, to discuss this all. Could be my pure idealism and kind of liking the guy up to then (and having had success with another skeptic in the same park). We'll see how he is next time. He may fall into the older white male syndrome of being poisoned by relentless RW "patriotic" and fear-mongering propaganda and lost, like so many we know of.

There's so much to say about this all. It's a very interesting time. Which is why, electoral politics or not, I fully support those running for office who don't back away from fundamental Socialist platforms and principles. Changing The Narrative is one the key linchpins going forward, as far as I'm concerned.

Having calm, considered conversations with neighbors in your community could really change things. I'd add that the divisions might be too built up by the ugly hand of propaganda to even have the conversation. But if it is possible I would always suggest that, like I do myself, that my perceived adversary should also consider swearing off all corporate media forever. That might even be as good as any place to start. Just thinking about this though I know I'm a very impassioned guy and can easily meet aggressive bullshit with aggressive dismissal. It's a test. And I realize it's an opportunity to put into practice all the desire we have for coalescing a movement of the 99% being economically disenfranchised. Identity politics is the nemesis to this.

I'll end by saying I am really relishing the tag team meltdown of the Neoliberals and RW zoombies. They're literally scared shit of what's going on. The Emperor Has No Clothes. And they've got nothing too.

@Mark from Queens
I find I can usually talk with right-leaning folks if I don't present myself out front as the enemy. Common ground is easy to find in alienation and disenfranchisement from the political system. If political issues arise I generally start with a dismissive comment about both parties, and bring up the corruption and dishonesty of most politicians. It's rare that an opening like that doesn't get agreement. Once we talk a bit about that -- and I show willingness to trash the Dems and Republicans equally -- I'll start to talk about my views of politics in general, and maybe mention my past support for Bernie. Coupled with more disparagement of phonies like Nancy Pelosi and Barack Obama. Disagreement then is generally much more reasonable, and I'll ask about their views. Some probing questions about how their views support the corruption and disenfranchisement we opened with have often provoked surprising answers.

As many of you know I have a collection of politically confrontational t-shirts that I pretty much wear every day. On this occasion a couple of days ago I was wearing the Socialist Alternative shirt I bought outside of the Quaker Meeting House in Philly during the week of the DNC, incidentally when a handful of we C99ers met for a fun dinner and drinks at the venerable Khyber Pass. It is a play on the Drumpf dumbed-down fascist slogan. In the same lettering it says,"Make Socialism Great Again."

Was the first time in a long while though since something like this happened. I kind of relished it, taken by surprise. Because for the past few years walking around in Leftist shirts has gotten way more support and positive reaction than the contrary.

Anyway, this guy is doing his morning, running-up-the-stairs in the park when I see him and give a friendly wave. I've kind of taken to him because he kind of looks like an ex-football player on the Jets I liked, and when I put it out there in a way to see if he was him, he said he played college ball as a safety. The guy's in good shape, appeared kind and the type of person you might invite to a barbecue or something to hear his football war stories.

I notice he's not waving back but stops his workout and is looking at me. I notice he's wearing a cut-off grey Bud Light sweatshirt. He starts railing about Bernie Sanders owning 5 (?) houses, Soshulism and some other stuff. I start to tell him I don't think that's true, and how many does McCain own, 10, or maybe he doesn't know? Then he's off.

He's frothing rapid-fire about how socialism has killed 100 million people, Venezuela this, free market that, capitalism, blah blah blah. He's practically incoherent in his conditioned rage. Tells me he's 64, and after I tell him the banks and corporations own us all, he tells me he made 200 grand selling horses or something, that we've got the best healthcare system in the world, etc etc.

I begin to see a bad caricature of a completely duped RW fascist. He's spitting every old hack, tired cliche he's heard over decades of having listened to Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly, Regean, Beck, Savage, etc. He spews every canard about Bad Socialism/Good Capitalism that it's laughable. Instead of dismissing him as the sad RW tool he appeared to be I told him that when he calms down I'd sit with him, for an hour and a half if he likes, to discuss this all. Could be my pure idealism and kind of liking the guy up to then (and having had success with another skeptic in the same park). We'll see how he is next time. He may fall into the older white male syndrome of being poisoned by relentless RW "patriotic" and fear-mongering propaganda and lost, like so many we know of.

There's so much to say about this all. It's a very interesting time. Which is why, electoral politics or not, I fully support those running for office who don't back away from fundamental Socialist platforms and principles. Changing The Narrative is one the key linchpins going forward, as far as I'm concerned.

Having calm, considered conversations with neighbors in your community could really change things. I'd add that the divisions might be too built up by the ugly hand of propaganda to even have the conversation. But if it is possible I would always suggest that, like I do myself, that my perceived adversary should also consider swearing off all corporate media forever. That might even be as good as any place to start. Just thinking about this though I know I'm a very impassioned guy and can easily meet aggressive bullshit with aggressive dismissal. It's a test. And I realize it's an opportunity to put into practice all the desire we have for coalescing a movement of the 99% being economically disenfranchised. Identity politics is the nemesis to this.

I'll end by saying I am really relishing the tag team meltdown of the Neoliberals and RW zoombies. They're literally scared shit of what's going on. The Emperor Has No Clothes. And they've got nothing too.