@snoopydawg You don't think that the Bush/Cheney machine was just going to let legal challenges to their victories move forward, do you? Of course, they had a plan to corral the opposing candidates--probably a separate plan for each candidate likely to emerge from the primary fray. They didn't hire Rove for his good looks.

It always seemed fairly clear to me that these politicians are being intimidated. I can't figure that a person, or in this case a faction, who's willing to subvert the vote would also be willing to let the legal chips fall where they may.

#4

got up to speak about how black votes were suppressed in Florida. I kept waiting for him to yawn. I'm pretty sure that he promised to not accept the election results. But then Sandra wanted to retire during a republican president's term so she voted to stop the recount.

Kerry also promised not to accept the results, but he too folded like a wet suit even though there was evidence of hanky panky in Ohio. And lo and behold there was proof that Rove did steal that election for Bush.

Now there's this little gem from Glen Ford:

Black folks think the crisis is about race. It is – and it isn’t. If the ruling class, including those that fund and run the Democratic Party, were really concerned about Black people’s rights, they would have challenged Trump’s election victory based on blatant Black voter suppression in key Midwest states. As Greg Palast pointed out, the Republican “Crosscheck” scheme fraudulently and illegally purged 449,000 disproportionately Black voters from the rolls in Michigan, alone -- about 40 times larger than Trump's 10,700-vote margin of victory. Yet, Hillary Clinton and the Democrats only reluctantly joined in Green Party candidate Jill Stein’s recount action, and the first words out of Black Congressman John Lewis’s mouth when the polls closed in November were “Russia…Russia...Russia.” Republicans have been stealing elections through Black voter suppression in broad daylight since 2000, but only one Democratic senator and one congresswoman -- California’s Barbara Boxer and Ohio Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones, in 2004 – have in this century challenged the thefts . Black voter suppression has been part of the gentlemen’s agreement between the two corporate parties. Rich white people do not plunge the system into crisis for the sake of Black voting rights, or any Black rights at all, including the right to life. But the Lords of Capital will roll the dice on the fate of all humanity to preserve and expand their global dominion and the military machine that is their only remaining advantage. Their survival as a class is at stake. Trump must go because he cannot be depended on to preserve the Washington Consensus -- the imperial project.

Russia Gate started after the "It's My Turn" candidate lost to the Orange Turd for various reasons, but the biggest one was ....

It was not Trump’s flaming racism that made him a traitor to his class and to the empire. One of the U.S. duopoly parties has always played the role of White Man’s Party, with white supremacy as its organizing principle. Were it not for endemic, fervent, nationwide white racism, the most reactionary wing of the U.S. ruling class would have no effective electoral base. Trump simply serves up a stronger brew of white supremacist elixir for the good ole boys and girls. His heresy – precipitating the crisis in ruling class politics -- was to rhetorically oppose “free trade” and U.S. “regime change” policies, and to call for normalizing relations with Russia. “Free trade” -- a euphemism for the unfettered ability of the ruling class to move money and jobs wherever it chooses on the planet – and the “exceptional” right of U.S. imperialism to remove and replace sovereign governments at will, are the pillars of the Washington Consensus. Donald Trump became anathema to the Lords of Capital and their servants in the national security “deep state,” who crowded into Hillary Clinton’s Democratic tent, where Russiagate was invented out of whole cloth.

Every person who was involved with writing the Project for a New American Century (PNAC) abandoned Trump because he was a big enough warmonger and got behind the Clinton Creature's campaign. Wolfolwitz, Pearle, Kagan and I'm betting that the Dick Cheney went inside the Creature's tent because she would have continued their plans in the Middle East just like Barry did. Even though he said something completely opposite during his first campaign.

@snoopydawg  
And then there was his choice of Joe Lieberman in the first place.

#4

got up to speak about how black votes were suppressed in Florida. I kept waiting for him to yawn. I'm pretty sure that he promised to not accept the election results. But then Sandra wanted to retire during a republican president's term so she voted to stop the recount.

Kerry also promised not to accept the results, but he too folded like a wet suit even though there was evidence of hanky panky in Ohio. And lo and behold there was proof that Rove did steal that election for Bush.

Now there's this little gem from Glen Ford:

Black folks think the crisis is about race. It is – and it isn’t. If the ruling class, including those that fund and run the Democratic Party, were really concerned about Black people’s rights, they would have challenged Trump’s election victory based on blatant Black voter suppression in key Midwest states. As Greg Palast pointed out, the Republican “Crosscheck” scheme fraudulently and illegally purged 449,000 disproportionately Black voters from the rolls in Michigan, alone -- about 40 times larger than Trump's 10,700-vote margin of victory. Yet, Hillary Clinton and the Democrats only reluctantly joined in Green Party candidate Jill Stein’s recount action, and the first words out of Black Congressman John Lewis’s mouth when the polls closed in November were “Russia…Russia...Russia.” Republicans have been stealing elections through Black voter suppression in broad daylight since 2000, but only one Democratic senator and one congresswoman -- California’s Barbara Boxer and Ohio Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones, in 2004 – have in this century challenged the thefts . Black voter suppression has been part of the gentlemen’s agreement between the two corporate parties. Rich white people do not plunge the system into crisis for the sake of Black voting rights, or any Black rights at all, including the right to life. But the Lords of Capital will roll the dice on the fate of all humanity to preserve and expand their global dominion and the military machine that is their only remaining advantage. Their survival as a class is at stake. Trump must go because he cannot be depended on to preserve the Washington Consensus -- the imperial project.

Russia Gate started after the "It's My Turn" candidate lost to the Orange Turd for various reasons, but the biggest one was ....

It was not Trump’s flaming racism that made him a traitor to his class and to the empire. One of the U.S. duopoly parties has always played the role of White Man’s Party, with white supremacy as its organizing principle. Were it not for endemic, fervent, nationwide white racism, the most reactionary wing of the U.S. ruling class would have no effective electoral base. Trump simply serves up a stronger brew of white supremacist elixir for the good ole boys and girls. His heresy – precipitating the crisis in ruling class politics -- was to rhetorically oppose “free trade” and U.S. “regime change” policies, and to call for normalizing relations with Russia. “Free trade” -- a euphemism for the unfettered ability of the ruling class to move money and jobs wherever it chooses on the planet – and the “exceptional” right of U.S. imperialism to remove and replace sovereign governments at will, are the pillars of the Washington Consensus. Donald Trump became anathema to the Lords of Capital and their servants in the national security “deep state,” who crowded into Hillary Clinton’s Democratic tent, where Russiagate was invented out of whole cloth.

Every person who was involved with writing the Project for a New American Century (PNAC) abandoned Trump because he was a big enough warmonger and got behind the Clinton Creature's campaign. Wolfolwitz, Pearle, Kagan and I'm betting that the Dick Cheney went inside the Creature's tent because she would have continued their plans in the Middle East just like Barry did. Even though he said something completely opposite during his first campaign.

@MrWebster

Well put.

#4 Having worked in city controlled by democratic party machine, I have seen let's say less than honest elections. But after 2000 I was amazed by the methods used by the gop to cheat. Database manipulation? Hadn't see that one.

But even outside FL, there were credible of reports of newly installed voting machines not allowing votes for democrats. Right after the election independent people looked at machines using various statistical methods and concluded the "errors" were not random.

I thought democratic leadership would jump on all the cheating by the gop and fix the process and systems. Never happened as you say.

Instead the democrats did do something: they blamed Nader for the loss. Even now on TOP if one brings up Nader, I swear within minutes, some lackey will jump on you.

So why do nothing? Well, in making voting more secure and bullet proof, democrats would also lose their ability to cheat. Look at what happened in Brooklyn with the changing of party affiliation of around 110,000 voters. This massive change was not noticed by anybody? Really.

While democrats do nothing to protect the privileged of cheating their base, the gopers have gone forward with developing new and innovative ways to cheat the system and beating the democrats in the general election.

The irony is that the gop primaries were probably more honest as the Trump won who the establishment absolutely hated.

And this goes back to the supposed Russian meddling. Stepping back when one looks at the voting systems, the only people who can meddle, game, and cheat are the people inside running the system, which are Americans. It is Americans, who for example, reduce and move polling locations to suppress the vote--not the Russians.