Mueller's Peculiar Indictment of the GRU: Bad Law But Potent Propaganda
Mueller indicted the Russian military intelligence service but the indictment doesn't allege any actual harm. That is significant, as will be explained below.
The charging document does not allege anything of any specific value was destroyed, or that anyone in particular was actually victimized by loss of use of a good or even their privacy was invaded! Also, notably absent is a specific allegation that the United States suffered any specified identifiable harm other than hacking, itself.
A most peculiar Indictment filed in D.C. District Court Friday morning.
Read the Indictment for yourself, here: https://apps.npr.org/documents/document.html?id=4598895-DOJ-Russia-DNC-H...
What is charged is a conspiracy by Russian GRU officers to hack computers, unauthorized use of passwords, and to purchase software services to carry out a crime (so-called money laundering), which is again a crime without a victim. Rather a legal ass chasing its own tail. Again, the underlying crime or victimization remains unstated, as in Mueller’s earlier indictments of Paul Manafort for allegedly misrepresenting himself to an FBI agent, for money laundering (again), failing to register as a foreign agent, and an alleged bank fraud charge that’s a real stretch and reads like it was tacked on to justify the other charges.
Could it be that Mueller is acknowledging something important here without stating it? There is no real victim in “Russiagate.” So, where is the crime? Was anyone harmed? No. Was a U.S. Navy battleship resting at anchor blown up? No, again. Not a scratch to anything except the reputations of those who were shown to have rigged the Democratic primaries so that the DNC Chair’s favored candidate won.
It’s been imputed that the Russians did this to damage the reputation of Hillary Clinton. To take the alleged damage to reputation angle to its conclusion, truth is an entirely sufficient defense to any charge of libel. What was revealed by an alleged hack was the truth, something that is entirely lacking in the rest of this affair.
As for the alleged theft and public release of email, ill-gotten goods are undeserving of protection of law. The DNC and Podesta had no legitimate expectation of privacy in their combinations to defraud the public and steal elections.
The Russian GRU is accused of revealing that the people who run the DNC and Clinton campaign committee colluded with each other to steal the nomination. The allegedly hacked emails show what they really did and thought during the fraudulent nomination of Hillary Clinton. It might be argued, that whomever revealed the truth actually did a public service for the American people. An odd sort of “act of war,” that.
Finally, individual officials and military officers have a limited immunity and are not normally indicted by foreign states for intelligence activities such as electronic surveillance and hacking across borders. That is where the element of harm comes in. The only real precedent for this is the Rainbow Warrior case. In 1985, French intelligence officers blew up and sank a Greenpeace ship by that name anchored in Auckland, NZ harbour, killing a passenger, a Dutch photographer. A UN arbitrator held in that case the French agents were not immune under customary international law to prosecution in a New Zealand court and could be individually tried and jailed, but only because of the death of the victim as part of "a criminal act of violence against property in New Zealand . . . done without regard for innocent civilians." Greenpeace was additionally awarded damages in the UK under international Maritime Law because the vessel was a British-flagged ship.
Also bear in mind, the US and UK both provide immunity to their own intelligence officers and law enforcement officers for hacking and related computer crimes committed against foreign powers. The UK takes that a step further and exempts police officers for domestic hacking:
See, https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/may/15/intelligence-officers-ha...
This is a dangerous precedent, and the likely result is to ignite retaliation and further exacerbate U.S.-Russian tensions. The entire staffs of the NSA, GCHQ and GRU could be similarly “prosecuted,” but what will that accomplish? Even if every word of the indictment is fact, the indictment itself violates the norms of international law and this latest “Russiagate” escalation by Mueller seems intended to ratchet up the New Cold War.
That is why “Russiagate” is a legal sham, in my opinion. Even if the alleged Russian hack of the DNC email actually happened as claimed, and even if the hack was with bad intent, there was no real crime or harm in the release of that information. That information was no more the private property of the DNC and Clinton Campaign than a plan to rob a bank belongs to the robbers. Isn’t that so, Mr. Mueller?
Comments
All this indignation and huff and puff
but not one word of what they actually exposed. Russiagate, as it relates to the DNC and Podesta emails, is absolute bull shit. Now if he has evidence of wrongdoing against Trump, let's say money laundering, he needs to get on with it. Since this whole thing is more political than anything else, is Mueller waiting to charge Trump closer to 2020? That's a long time away.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Of course he will wait.
Until Right after Hillary's DNC Coronation.
And hell with it, some random music that means as much to reality as their delusions.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzcvRDWgRIE]
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
To paraphrase Jimmy Hendrix...
Scuse me, if I don't give a fuck. (Not you, Russiagate.)
I mean we're in great danger of Peace breaking out. The horror.
and 12 Russians were indicted! Oooh, scary!
It's not like we bother attacking nations for 15 or so people proven to have ACTUALLY killed thousands of Americans. Yes, I'm going to fucking go there.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
As the case will not go to trial, so legally deficient or not,
the indictment serves its purpose. But, justice, finding of fact, and restoration of law is not the point of the indictment.
Excuse me if that sort of thing still matters.
So last century. n/t
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
will the smoke and
mirrors ever end?
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Perhaps with a nuclear mushroom
cloud it will end. Right now I'm beginning to think that's the only way this lying bullshit ends. But even if that mushroom cloud should come to pass, I'd bet money that too will be blamed on whoever the most convenient, or surviving, scapegoat is.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
all with no evidence
The FBI never examined the DNC server. And even if they had, we learned from the vault 7 wikileaks that the CIA can leave evidence of any country they choose when they hack into a system. I can't believe my normally rational friends can be so brainwashed as to buy into the whole Russiagate narrative. T-rump has caused them to lose their ability to think.
Risen has a piece up on the intercept that convinces me he's a CIA mouthpiece...
https://theintercept.com/2018/07/13/indictment-of-russian-intelligence-o...
Aaron Mate continues his rounds with Russiagate cheerleader Michael Isikoff (video or text)
https://therealnews.com/stories/has-mueller-caught-the-hackers
The greatest irony in all this is we have hard evidence that the Clinton machine swayed the MSM to promote T-rump in the primary and squash Bernie. Isn't that election tampering? We also witness the blatant privilege when Comey didn't indict the $hill when she obviously and without a doubt broke the law. So we have the Clinton's above the law laundering money through their foundation But it's Russia's fault....come on.
Jimmy accuse people of thinking with their lizard brains...I fear he is right.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Please do not attack beings with lizard brains!
Don't bother me with the FACTS. I have my own opinions. So what if you have evidence. I have a big mouth and sharp teeth!
very clever AE
no dullness in your lizard brain!
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Agree, Lookout
You guys gave me a chance for a chuckle. Thanks!
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
They are slaughtering your people, Ed
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/indonesian-mob-slaughters-300-crocodiles...
Well done!
You have totally taken the wind out of the sails of Russia Gate. As you stated, what was the crime? The information that came from the DNC computers and Podesta's emails showed that there was a plan to rig the primary against Bernie so that Hillary would win it. I've said numerous times that was the real election interference. As to what Russia is accused of doing Obama, Brennan and others have stated that no votes were changed from Hillary to Trump no were any voting machines hacked. Funny thing about that though. 3 states have said that they did see signs of some entity trying to hack into their state's voting data bases but it came from the DHS. Not a foreign country.
Putin said that he would welcome the US investigation into those 12 military officers if the US would send someone to interview them in Russia since the two countries have a treaty to do just that. Will anyone take him up on that offer? Anyone? Bueller?
After Trump's meeting with Putin people are doubling down and accusing Trump of doing all kinds of shady things.
Brennan who had admitted in Jan 2017 that there was no evidence that Russia affected the election in any way has since been prattling on about Russia Gate without every offering any evidence, but that is why this country has been peddling propaganda since Wilson decided it was a great way to get people on board with anything their government want to do. Here is the latest from Brennan.
A few other tweets from the joint press conference.
I'm pretty sure that no one will ask Putin a follow up question about what he meant by this.
Debunked? I don't see that this was debunked. In fact I don't remember anyone ever talking about the content of the emails that showed that the primary was rigged.
????
One more idiot heard from.
Propaganda baby. It works. Every person I have spoken with since Her lost the election really believes that this country is being run by Putin directly and with the full knowledge and help from the GOP. Because Putin has blackmailed them too or something ....
If Putin runs the country, I want my money back.
Yah, the good smart liberals I know believe this to be literally true. That yes, somehow Putin is sending orders to Trump. When I try to break this down in logical manner as in "how is Putin sending the orders? Erh ah ah, well, Trump knows what Putin wants...and around it goes.
My only response now is "how in the hell did our patriotic American banksters, lobbyists, billionaires, millionaires, CEOs, Saudis (honorary citizens), and special interests ever allow Putin to take control of the country away from them."
One more twit heard from
My only hope now, and it's a huge
long shot, is that these fuckers have to eat their damned words one day and will be publicly shamed, or better yet JAILED, for ginning up another idiotic war. I know, not evah gonna happen but I can dream.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
Ditto, lizzy
I kept waiting for the day Russia Gate exploded and became known for the farce it is. I really wanted to see Rachel's reaction and see how she would explain to her viewers that she had just made everything up. But now I'm don't think that is going to happen. The PTB have invested to much into it and they won't let their agendas be derailed. This is just a softer "Saddam has WMDs." And people fell for it.
Convergence theory
What this episode really proves is that the US finally has joined the USSR as a broken, bankrupt empire that is run by shifting coalitions of international bankers and splinter groups of spooks. The facade of law and democratic norms in America has fallen and shattered on Washington steps.
Personally, I accept that in modern times all major intelligence agencies and military general staffs routinely spy on each other and meddle in politics, including elections in their own countries. That’s a given and should be obvious to everyone since Yuri Andropov succeeded Brezhnev and Director George H.W Bush had three terms as President of the United States.
What is most significant about the current spectacle is how it reveals the polarization and breakdown in discipline within US military and intelligence agencies. The internal policy dispute over Syria and Ukraine and botched election tampering has led to open infighting among the spooks. That’s what "Russiagate" is really all about and it’s why Flynn and Manafort were the first Mueller indicted.
The Mueller investigation is an extension of politics by other means.
American Perestroika. Our Oligarchs Will Hollow US Out the Same
way.
Any move Left and the Oligarchs will light the match and start the firesale. We're zombie consumers at this point in time anyway.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
I Smell a Coup Coming. And If That Happens, We're All Going to
see Martial Law. With a capital M and capital L.
Social media is completely insane. I've got a very large demographic of fairly open minded people given my trade, and it's unanimous: Drumpf is a Traitor and has committed Treason - both with capital Ts.
I could see Civil War in weeks. Completely terrifying.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
Well, I at least tried to be sane.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
On point with your comment is how Pompeo gamed HRC
He ostensibly went to seek advice on how to do his confirmation hearing for SOS. What actually happened is the Medusa told him who to retain and what policies to pursue. Pompeo had no intention of adopting her policies (except Neocon points) but he got valuable clues as to Clinton allies in the DOS. He then began purging them. Stupid HRC! But I hope she runs in 2020.
Excellent job
I had intended to try to write an essay on this same subject using an article written by Adam Carter who went through the indictment paragraph by paragraph and debunked the entire thing. The "facts" cited in the indictment have already been contradicted by known evidence already in the public domain.
Mueller is Deep State. His job has been to divert attention away from Hillary Clinton's numerous crimes and the murder of Seth Rich, and try to find grounds for impeachment of Trump while placing the blame for Clinton's defeat on Russia. They have already tried to frame Trump for "collusion," whatever that means in the legal sense and after well over a year and millions of taxpayer dollars, have come up with nothing. If it takes this long to find it, it probably does not exist. Instead we get twelve more ham sandwiches who will never appear in court.
Does this mean I think Trump is a good guy? No, but both can be true at the same time. And since when does the truth matter to the Deep State?
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Regarding Other Independent Council's Historical Comparisons
A lot has been made about the "short" timeframe on this investigation so far.
But account for the change in data speed and data acquisition - all records are stored electronically now, so we can get byzantine forms almost immediately.
Also look at the granularity of private data that is acquired and stored via our domestic spying apparatus. I mean, they know EVERYTHING.
We're on a completely different planet from the 90s, and even the 00s. There was no YouTube or FB in the early 00s.
Different planet.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
The only good thing I can say
about Russia is Putin has a younger cuter girl friend. Other than that I'd say we are headed for collapse.
Putin said that Hillary received Russian money
during her campaign.
If Mueller investigation sends official request to question suspects, Russia will do that - Putin
Then there's those hundreds of millions that Russia gave to the Clinton's foundation and also paid Bill $500,000 to give a speech after the shady uranium one deal. Mueller has never been questioned for his role in stopping the FBI investigation into the Russians who were involved in it. Funny that!
So Meuller indicts 12 "ham sandwiches" right before Trump
meets with Putin. Not a coincidence.
MUELLER, ROSENSTEIN, STRZOK, COMEY, BRENNAN, McCABE — UP TO THEIR GILLS IN COLLUSION,... all part of HRC's club and very unhappy in their new roles.
chuck utzman
TULSI 2020
Russia denialism gets harder and harder every day
though it doesn't get us any closer to removing Trump, because his screaming minions power him, not the Russians. Nothing makes the Donald blush orange with lust like a pack of Patriot Prayer brownshirts with MAGA hats and tiki torches chanting "JOOZ will not replace us!"
Trouble with this news, it pushes the child abduction and child torture stories out of the public consciousness. All of those lives destroyed. For the glory of Trump.
OTOH, almost the entire Congress is in Israel’s pocket and
has no problem publicly displaying more loyalty to the likes of Benjamin Netanyahu than to their own American president of whatever party.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=netanyahu+congress+standing+ovations
Everyone is going nuts in this country.
And it is happening right within the timeline that the CIA (and the now more powerful NSA) had it all planned. Nothing scares our intelligence/military more than the possibility of peace with Russia. The hatred for Russia was stirred up and manufactured by the CIA during WWII and it has never left the agenda of that agency, and now has been passed on to all the other fucking 17 agencies (most of which we know nothing about).
The whole country is being played again, and we are dancing to the tune that is blocking out the fact that the edge of the cliff is not far away.
The media says nothing about our relationship with Saudi Arabia, or Israel or any other countries who fuck with out elections all the time. Nor do they point out to the public our own track record of messing with other countries elections and general politics (usually to protect the money of our oligarch class).
And Trump is setting himself up for the JFK treatment. I don't think he knows what kind of danger he is in.
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
As I said elsewhere, it’s getting “Chile” in here
May seem an odd comparison, until one recalls that “Left vs. Right” labelling is mostly misdirection — then an analogy suggests itself, a similarity to another populist elected leader, undermined by CIA-orchestrated uproar culminating in a coup:
Trump as Salvador Allende.
Here's what I don't get...
...the conclusion here is that there was no crime because:
Ok so hacking someone's e-mail is illegal - full stop. Clinton and the DNC conspired to rig the primary election - but is that a crime ? The Democratic Party is a club, with squishy rules, guidelines and bylaws.
I am not arguing that Mueller has enough evidence for a case. But there was a crime committed wasn't there ?
Well, in the first place
there's technical evidence that the DNC was not hacked. The data was transferred at a speed too fast for anything but access from the inside. It was a leak.
Corroborating evidence: Craig Murray, former British ambassador to, I think, Uzbekistan? said that it was a leak, not a hack, and that he was handed the data in D.C., which he then carried back to Wikileaks.
Of course, that is Murray's word against Mueller's, but then again, Mueller was the one who was at the head of the "botched"--many believe deliberately botched-- investigation into BCCI under George H.W. Bush, and was also the head of a probe into the 9/11 attack. Colleen Rowley, an FBI whistleblower (in relation to 9/11) said Mueller was in charge of a cover-up operation regarding 9/11:
While Mueller has been widely described as being of impeccable character by much of official Washington, Rowley said today: “The truth is that Robert Mueller (and James Comey as deputy attorney general — see my New York Times op-ed on day of Comey’s confirmation hearing) presided over a cover-up …”
In her interview, Rowley noted: “The FBI and all the other officials claimed that there were no clues, that they had no warning [about 9/11] etc., and that was not the case. There had been all kinds of memos and intelligence coming in. I actually had a chance to meet Director Mueller personally the night before I testified to the Senate Judiciary Committee … [he was] trying to get us on his side, on the FBI side, so that we wouldn’t say anything terribly embarrassing. …
“When you had the lead-up to the Iraq War … Mueller and, of course, the CIA and all the other directors, saluted smartly and went along with what Bush wanted, which was to gin up the intelligence to make a pretext for the Iraq War. For instance, in the case of the FBI, they actually had a receipt, and other documentary proof, that one of the hijackers, Mohamed Atta, had not been in Prague, as Dick Cheney was alleging. And yet those directors more or less kept quiet. That included … CIA, FBI, Mueller, and it included also the deputy attorney general at the time, James Comey.”
“While not the worst of the bunch, neither Comey nor Mueller deserve their Jimmy Stewart ‘G-man’ reputations for absolute integrity but have merely been, along the lines of George ‘Slam Dunk’ Tenet, capable and flexible politicized sycophants to power, that enmeshed them in numerous wrongful abuses of power along with presiding over plain official incompetence. It’s sad that political partisanship is so blinding and that so few people remember the actual sordid history.”
Here is where I got that excerpt from:
http://www.accuracy.org/release/911-whistleblower-rowley-on-muellers-his...
and here is Rowley's original article:
https://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/09/opinion/questions-for-the-fbi-nominee...
It certainly sounds to me like Mueller has repeatedly been pulled in to clean up, clear up, and cover up when the Bush faction and their allies, which now include the Clintons, have something nasty to hide involving the war on terror and the rise of a metastisized global police state. It does also sound to me, as Rowley says, that these gentlemen (Mueller and Comey) are not the worst of the lot; they aren't John Brennans, or Lee Atwaters, or J Edgar Hoovers. They aren't the Dulles brothers. They may even have had genuine misgivings about the Bush administration's warrantless wiretapping. But they fell back in line quite quickly and quietly after one meeting with George W. Bush, and no further rebellion was evident.
And in fact, wouldn't you want to bring someone who has at least the appearance of credibility in to engineer a cover-up, if they had to do it in public? You wouldn't want a John Brennan.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
If it plays out the way you predict, it will likely follow the
script of ZR/RIFLE: https://www.maryferrell.org/php/cryptdb.php?id=ZRRIFLE
Beware any surviving documentation still in the files, as it is likely to all be cover (CYA), as in this case, a two-fer.
Under int'l law, it's not a "crime" that is prosecuted in the
courts of the state that is targeted for surveillance. Otherwise, every spook in the world would be on the Interpol wanted list. The world can't function on that basis any more than overhead surveillance satellite operators should be pursued for espionage. Francis Gary Powers was tried for espionage, and that is unlikely to ever happen again because of the Open Skies Treaty - there should be something like that for electronic surveillance, as well. This indictment is a bogus prosecution, as Russia won't for obvious reasons extradite its military intelligence officers for this and there will never be a public trial of the accused. The prosecution is impractical and futile, making the case nonjudicable.
As for the other part of the argument you mentioned that there was no real crime or victim in the release of the DNC/Podesta email, that stands. The allegedly hacked emails were themselves evidence of a fraud and election tampering by those involved. As to whether that rises to a crime, neither Mueller nor the DOJ have made any indication that they will investigate it - that also is a political choice.
Well, in the first place
there's technical evidence that the DNC was not hacked. The data was transferred at a speed too fast for anything but access from the inside. It was a leak.
Corroborating evidence: Craig Murray, former British ambassador to, I think, Uzbekistan? said that it was a leak, not a hack, and that he was handed the data in D.C., which he then carried back to Wikileaks.
Of course, that is Murray's word against Mueller's, but then again, Mueller was the one who was at the head of the "botched"--many believe deliberately botched-- investigation into BCCI under George H.W. Bush, and was also the head of a probe into the 9/11 attack. Colleen Rowley, an FBI whistleblower (in relation to 9/11) said Mueller was in charge of a cover-up operation regarding 9/11:
While Mueller has been widely described as being of impeccable character by much of official Washington, Rowley said today: “The truth is that Robert Mueller (and James Comey as deputy attorney general — see my New York Times op-ed on day of Comey’s confirmation hearing) presided over a cover-up …”
In her interview, Rowley noted: “The FBI and all the other officials claimed that there were no clues, that they had no warning [about 9/11] etc., and that was not the case. There had been all kinds of memos and intelligence coming in. I actually had a chance to meet Director Mueller personally the night before I testified to the Senate Judiciary Committee … [he was] trying to get us on his side, on the FBI side, so that we wouldn’t say anything terribly embarrassing. …
“When you had the lead-up to the Iraq War … Mueller and, of course, the CIA and all the other directors, saluted smartly and went along with what Bush wanted, which was to gin up the intelligence to make a pretext for the Iraq War. For instance, in the case of the FBI, they actually had a receipt, and other documentary proof, that one of the hijackers, Mohamed Atta, had not been in Prague, as Dick Cheney was alleging. And yet those directors more or less kept quiet. That included … CIA, FBI, Mueller, and it included also the deputy attorney general at the time, James Comey.”
“While not the worst of the bunch, neither Comey nor Mueller deserve their Jimmy Stewart ‘G-man’ reputations for absolute integrity but have merely been, along the lines of George ‘Slam Dunk’ Tenet, capable and flexible politicized sycophants to power, that enmeshed them in numerous wrongful abuses of power along with presiding over plain official incompetence. It’s sad that political partisanship is so blinding and that so few people remember the actual sordid history.”
Here is where I got that excerpt from:
http://www.accuracy.org/release/911-whistleblower-rowley-on-muellers-his...
and here is Rowley's original article:
https://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/09/opinion/questions-for-the-fbi-nominee...
It certainly sounds to me like Mueller has repeatedly been pulled in to clean up, clear up, and cover up when the Bush faction and their allies, which now include the Clintons, have something nasty to hide involving the war on terror and the rise of a metastisized global police state. It does also sound to me, as Rowley says, that these gentlemen (Mueller and Comey) are not the worst of the lot; they aren't John Brennans, or Lee Atwaters, or J Edgar Hoovers. They aren't the Dulles brothers. They may even have had genuine misgivings about the Bush administration's warrantless wiretapping. But they fell back in line quite quickly and quietly after one meeting with George W. Bush, and no further rebellion was evident.
And in fact, wouldn't you want to bring someone who has at least the appearance of credibility in to engineer a cover-up, if they had to do it in public? You wouldn't want a John Brennan.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Both coups, one sans grace
Although the wounded animal analogy probably applies to Trump. In fact, most of the country is screaming to be put out of its misery at this point.
This will get worse, far worse, before it gets better.