Caitlin Johnstone trashes QAnon, again.
If there has been a QAnon post here recently, I missed it. Personally, I have never found QAnon to be credible, other than as a Deep State psyop. But, I realize that some people here do follow its Delphic pronouncments. To those people, I offer the following choice: whom do you trust more, Caitlin Johnstone or QAnon? Because Caitlin thinks QAnon is a psyop.
I have been saying all year that the 8chan phenomenon known as “QAnon” is bogus, and as time has gone on the evidence has become overwhelming that it is an establishment psyop designed to herd the populist right into accepting the narratives and agendas of the establishment orthodoxy. Whether they’re claiming that every capitulation the Trump administration makes to longstanding neoconservative agendas is actually brilliant 4-D chess strategy, or saying that Julian Assange isn’t really trapped in the Ecuadorian embassy, QAnon enthusiasts are constantly regurgitating talking points which just so happen to fit in very conveniently with the interests of America’s defense and intelligence agencies.
Caitlin Johnstone, Anyone Promoting Regime Change In Iran Is An Evil Piece Of Shit
Here is an image she posted:
This particular column of hers is reacting to a QAnon post that goes "all in" on "freeing Iran":
I ask myself, what does any left leaning person see in QAnon when he/she/they are spouting the exact same neocon warmongering as all the other corporate/MIC politicos?
-----
In some ways, it is stupid of me to re-open this divisive can of worms when it seems to have gone dormant at our site. However, I could not pass up posting something far clearer than anything I could have written. This failure to restrain myself has, in the past, landed me in hot water. Alas, it is sort of a compulsion that I have to stir the shit from time to time.
To those who do trust QAnon, I mean no disrespect. I ask you to look at it from my POV. How does one argue with people who have come to trust a completely anonymous poster who posts riddles and then retroactively explains how they came true? I can't argue with "faith". But, perhaps, Caitlin can.
In any case, I promise not to be nasty in my replies; and I hope others can do the same. If we can't discuss controversial topics civilly here, what is the point of being here?
Comments
I fully agree with Caitlin.
I have been following QAnon for several months. Something stinks to high heaven. I also believe it's a psyop although not sure it's 'Deep State'. Maybe LARP.
THIS IS KEY ----->>>>>
We've all had previous experience with this Q shiite. Think Obomba's 11th dimensional chess playing......
Interesting. Could you please explain...
The motivation for someone doing this as a LARP? To cash in later by revealing who they are? Beyond that, it seems like a good way to wind up in a cement overcoat.
Well you know what they say about shit stirrers
Kidding ...
I have decided to sit on the fence and see what plays out with Q. I see one thing one day and something else the next. Either way it's been very interesting following the clues he has been leaving. I think for me it boils down to what actually comes from the things he has been talking about. But as I was a huge X-Files fan, I want to believe.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Thanks for the "lick the spoon" quote. LOL.
The whole "want to believe" thing has been, as you say, around since the X-Files. The problem is that people are willing to let CT without evidence (as opposed to with evidence) be a substitute for demanding serious investigations. Yes, I know the politicians and the media are totally compromised; but I'd rather be in the dark than be led around by the nose by some psyop.
If this "guy" were really trouble for anyone, he would be dead ASAP. The NSA can vacuum up every keystroke and cell phone location. Pretending that this guy is "for real" (as opposed to a sanctioned psyop) is for clueless idiots. Right, Agent Mike?
The truth is out there,
but the X-Files started
going down hill when the show killed off the Lone Gunman crew.
wtf?
Not that they were on very much, but they added TONS to the show when they were on!
Wasn't the same since. After all, besides Mulder somebody had to believe.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
But is that true here?
"The problem is that people are willing to let CT without evidence (as opposed to with evidence) be a substitute for demanding serious investigations."
gulfgal: "Many of the previous posts have proven to be true later." This could count as evidence couldn't it?
Q has released some things ahead of time and then things happened that at least made it look like he/she/they are legit. But as I said, I'm not totally buying into this Q phenomenon nor do I think what he is doing is going to change anything for us, but it has been interesting following it. It doesn't cost me anything to keep an open mind.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
I guess my point is why is QA worth the time?
So what if he is leaking from inside the Trump camp? Trump, as I have said above is just a "distraction", reality TV to keep the suckers from noticing the massive financial and legal rights ass-fucking being administered by the bipartisan Congress, the already completely rightwing-majority SCOTUS, and all of Trump's Cabinet-secretary wreckers/incompetents.
Can someone please explain why I should care?
On this board, IMHO, the sentiment is that the only good thing about Trump is that he has ripped the mask off the bipartisan destruction of the US for the greater good of the 0.01%. I don't think anyone here believes any part of Trump's real agenda (whatever that is, if he has one for more than 5 minutes at a time) is anything good for this country or for the left. If Trump wins, America gets ruined by protofascist nationalists. If Trump loses, America gets ruined by neoliberal globalizers. Both factions are totally onboard with neocon warmongering.
Again, what difference does QAnon make?
I could imagine a third option for Mr. Badbehavior ...
just a dream, but I know American folks are great dreamers, so may be it comes through.
https://www.euronews.com/live
It does not matter to me
if anyone here cares about Qanon being a LARP or a psyop. This essay has challenged those of us here who have followed Qanon to explain why we follow or find Qanon posts worthwhile. I think that the few of us who do have explained our personal opinions and have done so without any negativity toward anyone who does not follow or want to read about Qanon.
You have asked what is the difference Qanon makes. My answer is that the difference that anyone or anything makes is subjective. And sometimes the difference is only expanding knowledge. Expanding one's knowledge does not always mean becoming an acolyte.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
I respect your position.
I take that as heartfelt and sincere. I accept that you feel that any judgement is subjective, and any experience adds to one's knowledge.
I think that for an individual, subjectivity is paramount. But, when one tries to run public policy with subjective arguments that's where the trouble happens.
In "critical theory", subjectivity has been the thin edge of the wedge by which Deconstructionism (aka Post Modernism)(Foucault, Derrida, etc) has vaporized truth, including scientific truth. To them, everything is a word game. I don't think that personal subjectivity is a word game; but I think subjectivity can be used as an excuse for bad intentions.
I certainly don't think you are doing that, because you are talking about one's unavoidable personal subjectivity. But there are so many propagandists and con arists out there ("It depends on what the meaning of 'is' is." - Bill Clinton) that I always try to make things as objective as possible in my public statements. At this point, IMHO, QAnon is playing games with subjectivity in a public setting; and I refuse to be played.
Re: public policy
You asked for why certain ones of us here have followed the Q postings and those of us who were brave enough to answer, did so out of good faith and with no malice towards those who have chosen to bash the Q postings.
I have tried to answer your questions with heartfelt honesty. And if that is not enough for you or anyone else here, I am sorry. Also, I cannot speak for anyone else other than myself which is why I answered your questions the way I did.
You and others here may believe that Q is making public policy through the posts and that is your prerogative. My own prerogative is to follow and read the posts and hope that I can learn something from them.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
I don't understand
I already said that you did:
Then I made a distinction between personal subjectivity, and public subjectivity:
For some reason, you have taken that distinction as some kind of criticism of you. it was not. It was an attempt to bridge our two positions. It could be taken as criticism of the tactics of QA, and that's how I meant it.
Please let me know if you still feel that I have slighted you. That was not my intention.
I can walk and chew gum at the same time
I know damn well what the republicans are and have been doing since Trump was elected and I have commented on that countless times. I have also said that a lot of what Trump does and says causes huge distractions from the republicans disseminating what Obama passed on his way out the door during the first 100 days.
Can someone please explain why I should care?
Only you can answer that. I am not requiring anyone to follow Q or believe in it. I have stated why I am.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
OK.
As with gulfgal, I get the feeling you are annoyed with me. Perhaps its just the terseness of text.
I get it that you are interested in following QA. As with gulfgal, your reasons are personal growth and a personal sense there is some value in the exercise.
My reasons are equally personal. I don't have time to parse cryptic statements from unknown actors; and I think that anything that draws the focus towards Trump just feeds the distraction from the bipartisan takedown of what is left of our democracy.
I never expected to change anyone's mind with this thread. I just wanted to have a discussion. I think that was accomplished, with civility. If you feel injured, please let me know that. I didn't want to create bad feelings.
You have been eminently civil, arendt
And so have the people on this board who think that Q has something to offer. I do. Delphic or Nostradamus-like pronouncements do reveal Trumpian politics (as opposed to--with one exception--Iran) may indeed have something to teach. Learning the lessons to be taught, whether one believes them or not, are important. Sufficient confirmation of Trump acknowledging Q have been demonstrated. In other words, Q is closely allied with and representing Trump, albeit cryptically most times.
On the Qanon board, Q admits that his posts will contain disinformation and real information. IF the military supports Trump, which I believe the upper echelon does, then Q is probably protected almost to the degree Trump is. Thus I take issue with an above comment that if Q was real, then he/she/them would be dead.
My position here is similar to gulfgal and snoopy: it is better to know than not to know. Our task, if we choose to accept it, is to discern the truth from the untruth. The ostrich strategy, like Killarybots is counter-productive. Your comments have been entirely appropriate and civil as befits this board. If we cannot tolerate controversy, then we at c99 have ossified as much as Nancy Pelosi's brain.
I have been following Qanon since the second or third day
in late October. Do I believe Qanon is a LARP? No. Do I think Qanon is a form of a psyop? Probably, however I cannot be sure of the purpose of it. What I do think is that Qanon is military intelligence and is probably a team of individuals who are close to President Trump. There are too may proofs to confirm this last point.
What I do not know is where the posts of Qanon are leading. Many of the previous posts have proven to be true later. Does this mean that I think Qanon is a good guy or someone I can trust? No. But it really does not matter, because we have no control over what happens anyway.
However, I am a firm believer in keeping an open mind and trying to learn as much as possible, regardless of the source. That means that I am not afraid to continue to watch and follow this phenomenon. I have no control over Q and Q has no real control over me. But what I do have is a knowledge base from which to possibly make a future judgment.
What I say is that I am a person of free will and as such, I will make up my own mind about these things such as the Q phenomenon. While I may be proven wrong in the future, simply by reading them, I have expanded my way of thinking from following the Q posts.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Well, thanks for following it; and for your conclusions.
That would imply that the protection for Q is coming from the military (as opposed to the spooks shops), which is the group backing Trump. Makes sense.
But, what then does that make the Q operation? A Trump tweet on steroids? Conspiracy chow for the rightwing knuckledraggers that Trump needs to keep conning?
Could you please elaborate what you mean by "expanded my way of thinking"? I won't put words in your mouth by directing you to any particular topic. Please just tell me what facts or ideas you have found useful.
your questions
The reason I believe that the Q team is military intelligence is that the NSA is military based intelligence. I go back to ten days after Trump was elected and Admiral Mike Rogers, then head of the NSA, went to Trump to inform him that he and his campaign had been the subject of spying. Rogers was the only major Obama holdover retained by Trump and stayed on for more than a year even though he had planned on retiring sooner. Rogers retired recently and has been replaced by Army General Paul Nakasone. The NSA is military intelligence and for this reason, I believe the Q team is somehow connected with the NSA.
The second question you had for me is one that is subjective and no matter how I answer it, it will still be a subjective answer that may not satisfy anyone here. The old saying of keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer may apply to this. Since we do not really know yet the real or complete purpose of Q, I (subjective) find that watching and following the Q posts is valuable to me in trying to understand what is going on here. No one knows the real truth behind the deep state and what is really going on in our government. I do not want to close my eyes to any information that may shed light on gaining a better understanding. For me (subjective again), knowledge is a form of power in a system in which most of us are very powerless.
I (being subjective) do not hold anything against people who bash the Q phenomenon. Skepticism is good, in all directions. As I posted earlier, Q is probably a form of a psyop or propaganda like nearly everything else we see or read. Our entire media system from newspapers to tv to entertainment such as movies is all propaganda. Understanding that allows us to use our critical thinking skills to sort through the chaff and possibly see some truth. There can be great value in looking outside the echo chamber, at least there is for me (being subjective again).
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
gulfgal, I concur with your conclusions
Those conclusions, such as they are, i.e., tentative yet remain to be fully tested. Q is not a LARP, which conclusion does not really prove nor disprove contentions based by arendt or Caitlin Johnstone. Up until the recent Q discussions (messages) on 8 Chan about Iran, Q drops have been remarkably free of regime change verbiage. There have been posts about Trump's policy toward the SA royalty politics, which include comments of internally-driven SA "housecleaning" as somehow being a positive. No mention of Syria for months. No mention of Sudan but some few comments about Yemen (insufficient in my opinion to bolster any illusions about our malevolence there). Sudan and other Dubya-Hussein instigated invasions/destabilizations are not discussed; although there is mention of "bringing the troops back"--meaning ending (some?) foreign interventions.
There are "Q Proofs" videos which recount predictions which have come later to be realized. Some times by hours and sometimes by months. One recent proof of "non-LARPism" was the recent release of testimony from the closed door Strzok testimony at 10 AM, which did not appear in press until 5 hours later (Goodlatte TV interview). This revelation appears to re-inforce Q's insider status, although it does not indicate the overall intent of Q-posting. There are also verified pictures taken from inside Air Force One, including a possible partial facial image of Trump. Several executive orders have been hinted at before general release. Other examples of proofs, which many do not believe are proofs of anything except Nostradamus-like metaphors are available. Several detailed videos of these proofs are available on YouTube.
As Kaitlin and arendt note, quite correctly, foreknowledge does not improve intent. Like you and snoopydawg and others, awaiting the final outcome will prove the case, one way or another. Is this another Deep State (DS) psyop?--Maybe.
My personal feeling having followed Q for months now, is that this Q phenomenon has several purposes. One of which is to firm up Trump's base, or as a less flattering view is herding his followers together. The use of the word "herding" is a semantically loaded negative view of all efforts to strengthen a party or organizational base. Is aggregating support intrinsically bad? Depends upon what is being supported.
Another purpose of Q is to provide encouragement for those frustrated and angry about our two-tier "justice" system, in which criminals like the Clintons, Bush, Comey, et. al. go free for crimes much greater than which lesser offenses by ordinary people go to prison.
The Q phenomenon to me represents a changing of the DS regime from the corrupt Democrat machine infesting government by a different, perhaps still corrupt, Republican regime. Still DS--different players and ultimately different game plans.
It's a small club--and we ain't in it.
Thx, AE. Your knowledge of the swamp is very helpful.
Also, you are the first person since gulfgirl to bring up the issue of LARP.
I hear you saying this isn't one; but I never got my question answered:
Why is LARP even a possiblity? Why would anyone do this as a LARP? If you don't have some serious muscle behind your LARP, some outfit like the NSA will zero in on you. You could wind up either imprisoned, bankrupted, or dead. Who would take the risk? What is the payoff?
LARP
I did search for this one, having no clue what this acronym stood for. Found LARP = live action role playing game... unless I’m chasing rabbits again and y’all mean something else. I can’t figure out why would anyone would need “serious muscle” to play, and why would such a game put anyone at risk of ending up dead? That seems awfully serious for a game.
I haven’t had any interest in the Q... performance, or whatever it is. I did read CJ’s previous article on her interactions with them, and was convinced it was a farce. I didn’t bother looking into it any farther after that. As for why some people are motivated to do such gaming or performance art, or trolling as it was called in the old days, and others to watch it... well, games are for fun/distraction, art is just to do it, some like watching a performance because they find it interesting. I don’t feel at all compelled to care about it.
I think it’s likely the game/troll/art angle, and/or maybe real life trump supporters who are making up stuff about His Wonderfulness because they are desperate to resolve cognitive dissonance.
These both make more sense to me than the CIA actually bothering to put on such a show. I can’t imagine why they would bother with trolling 4chan. That seems nearly as outlandish as the idea this Q person or group is legit. Either way though, it just looks like not very interesting game playing to me. But not really any worse than wasting time watching American Idol or whatever reality show is big nowadays. Art, and games, are just things people do. Why ask why.
The point is, how does the LARPer know what is safe to say
Because that LARPer would be traipsing about in an infowar battlefield being contested by heavy hitters, like the CIA, the NSA, and various billionaire actors such as the Koch Brothers and Jeff Bezos. Because the LARPer could accidentally say something true and that something could cause a heavy hitter to come down on him and shut him up. Since said LARPer is completely anonymous and without an organization, he has no protection from organized muscle, whether it be lawyers, law enforcement, or outright hit men. And, only his close friends would miss him when he has an "accident" or a "heart attack".
This theme has been played fictionally many times. Think about the Robert Redford role in Three Days of the Condor. Granted that Redford was part of a secret organization (which was completely wiped out by an assassin), but he had inadvertently stumbled over a secret that was worth killing for. At the end, he goes to the NYT, and the CIA guy says "Do you really think they are going to publish it.
Simple answer: dorking around in Deep State territory can be as fatal as trying to scavenge copper from a live electrical substation. They are both things that really stupid people do.
Thanks for the explanation
I agree it is potentially a dangerous game. I hadn’t considered that it would be taken seriously enough, or threatening enough, by the big leagues to draw that much attention or deadly measures to stop it. I don’t frequent or even visit the parts of the web where these types of people congregate, but it’s my impression these kind of mysterious and out on the fringes stuff is ongoing and is pretty much ignored by everyone else. I’m not sure why this one would be any different.
But you know, it could be an extremely, exceptionally dangerous and stupid, potentially deadly, game and that would not stop people from doing it. Have you heard of Jackass? Risking life and limb on stupid stunts for attention, people do that. Why? No idea.
If the Q thing is in fact that high-profile and dangerous of a game to possibly attract deadly interventions, I don’t think that precludes someone or group of someones doing it anyway.
CJs theory that it’s deep state, trying to squash right wing populism and herd trumpers into line, or into submission, while he changes his tune on everything he said before... I don’t know. I suppose that is also plausible. But still to me feels unlikely. I still lean toward thinking it’s a distraction, started just for the lulz, and not likely to be any big secret anything.
Agree.
That's why I compared it to stealing copper from a live substation. It is stupid and deadly, but it doesn't stop idiots from doing it.
You summary of the purpose of Qanon
is right with what I believe I am seeing.
I remember someone way back asking how was Trump draining the Swamp when it seemed that he was appointing more Swamp creatures. And my answer was that Trump's version of the Swamp probably was not the same as ours.
I also go back to part of my earlier post on this essay, the second sentence of which seemed to be overlooked.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
The NSA angle is news to me, but I haven't been tracking.
Clearly, I have not been following the details. I didn't know people associated QA with the NSA. While I recognize that the NSA is military, I always thought its mandate was purely technical (signal capture, encryption, code breaking); and that actual military intelligence was the job of the DIA.
So, I have difficulty squaring the extreme techies at NSA (used to work with one, and boy was he wicked smart), who are not into HumInt, with the very personal and human "intel" that QA is producing. I hear you about Admiral Rogers; I just don't see how the NSA's technical capability produces a QA - except to make sure that no one can track how this stuff gets out onto the net.
QAnon does the bidding of the capitalists.
They don't give a shit about us.
Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.
Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.
I can't say that I
give a flying flip either way. But it's a hoot watching Lionel drool all over himself singing the Q praises!
As for Caitlin, I mostly agree with her most of the time, but we've had our back'n'forths. She bashed O-C after her big NY-14 win as not being pure enough to carry the progressive banner and I got on her for that. That went on for a good 20 mins. But it's fun watching Lionel carry on about Q and the latest "Q dump."
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Thanks for the reply...
I apologize for not being able to make sense of parts of it.
who is Lionel? Some rightwing blogger?
Is Caitlin available enough to spend 20 minutes with one email correspondent? (If yes, I might strike up a conversation with her.) Or do you have some special access?
no, I have no special
access, special powers,
or special anything else. I just happen to follow her on Twitter and noticed one of her Tweets.
As for Lionel... not sure if that's his first name or last, but he is an ex- (or retired) NYC prosecutor-turned-RW-talk-show-phenom long before Rush on local NYC radio. He has since, like everyone else, morphed to the tubes. find him on Twitter at... @LionelMedia and on his UToob channel... Lionel Nation
A winger, but pretty smart and pretty funny.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
I wouldn’t characterize Lionel Nation as RW at all.
Doesn’t fit under any traditional Left-Right label. Indeed rejects the idea of Left-Right as outdated and a divide-and-conquer trick.
Lionel’s trademark closing phrase is, “comment as you see fit.” That’s very much his attitude, one I find quite healthy. The usual attitude one encounters on the Web is the gaslighting one — “anyone who doesn’t agree with the thing I just said is crazy / a moron / a bigoted Nazi / a cuck / a libtard / a [insert name of foreign leader]-lover.”
Lionel, on the other hand, just puts what he thinks out there, reminding everyone they are free to think and agree or disagree as they see fit.
While true, he's definitely
Not a Lefty.
Nor are many members of his conspiratorium. And he's very much a Trumper.
I'll give him that he tells it like it is, but Not in a way el Rushbo does. And he brings up more Lefty issues than do the usual suspects of Hate Radio. All in all a pretty good show, hand farts and all. I watch maybe an hour a week, 10 mins. here, 20 mins. there. Worth a look see.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
I guess I’m a Trumper to the extent that I’m satisfied
that an effect of DJT has been to reveal the true nature of the United States system and its big behind-the-scenes players to many more people.
Whereas a Hillary presidency, like Obama’s, would have only continued to conceal it.
This
I agree that Trump is operating in the open unlike the other presidents who have blown smoke at us from the beginning of their campaigns all through their presidency. He is also pissing off our allies in many ways and maybe they will get fed up enough with him that they will quit being our puppets. Just because he pulled the country out of the Iran deal shouldn't mean that other countries that signed on to it should have to quit doing business with them. Especially if it's going to cost them more money.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
@lotlizard I'm sorry, but
I'm sorry, but after the U.S. Democratic primary--and her work as SoS--if Hillary didn't reveal the nature of the power structure in the U.S. to somebody, they weren't paying attention.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Her campaign didn't hurt
in the sense that it did
woke some people. But Trump has done more to reveal those behind the curtain than anyone else likely could or would. Certainly way more than HRC would have consciously revealed. But, yeah, Her helped, got this party started, indeed.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
@Wink And then
And then there's the Bush administration. That should have given people a clue. Although it was possible, back then, to believe that Bush was an aberration, a horrible mistake.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Her silence on the deadly anti-immigration virus
was notable - at least until today's brief thoughts and prayers, conveniently in the Guardian.
She's with Albright after all.
Exactly. About the only
value of this presidency,
but it's a gift that keeps on giving.
Sadly, however, the more he fucks this country the more the Bottom Third seem to cheer it on! "You tell 'em, Trump! Fuck those brown people!!" So...
But it still is one of the big reasons I didn't vote for Her. Hoping this b.s. would be America's woke call. Alas... not nearly enough yet woke.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Lionel Nation
Lionel Nation is the pseudonym for Michael William Lebron. Lionel has claimed to be neither left nor right in his political views, although I have seen some libertarianism in them. For example, Lionel supported the end of net neutrality.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
@gulfgal98 any libertarian who
any libertarian who advocates for the end of net neutrality is just a corporatist with a pretty name
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I am not passing judgment
as to what or why Lionel believe what he does. I was just passing on information. Personally I saw no upside for users with the end of net neutrality.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Thanks. He's no Lefty
that's for sure!
Libertarian prolly best describes his politics.
But his show is often fun to watch!
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Well, at least I learned who Lionel Nation is.
I knew I would get something useful out of this thread. (Pile of S***, pony).
Between you and the others I can now put him on the map.
Thanks for getting the ball rolling.
I must say, though,
that I have no idea
what Lionel is talking about when he references Q. I don't follow Q nor Anonymous, so I have no clue. It's just fun watching Lionel practically drool all over himself fawning over Q and the latest "Q drop." And most in the Conspiratorium (great word for his faithful fans) drool all over themselves, too, clinging to every word from Lionel. Is a hoot for 10 or 15 minutes! And sometimes Lionel brings up a point many have overlooked. He may be a Libertarian, but he's no dummy.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
I love Caitlin Johnstone
QAnon I don't believe I've ever heard of, but there aren't many things I hate more than the MISC, so I don't think I'd be too quick to listen to anything that sounded like its cheerleader.
I did just discover that Johnstone wrote some sort of book called "Woke" - and THAT pisses me off. If ever there were a word that I would both associate with this recent horrifying rise of "with a Left like this, who needs a Right?"-types, and take as proof of their intellectual suicide, it would be that sleazy little crime against language.
"Woke" is just the long-completely-unasked-for Democrat answer to "nucular." And I thought "pussy hats" were the Fashion Fail of the Decade.
In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.
Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!
I love woke. Pretty much
says it all in one small
word, albeit insider lingo.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
What does it mean?
I obviously don’t understand the insider lingo. Can you please explain for us noninsiders, what do you mean by “woke”?
And what do you think Caitlin means when she uses that word?
This is why it’s an annoying word. It’s both vague and condescending. Like “I know something you don’t, but I won’t tell you what that is.” What’s the point of using words with no explainable meaning? Words exist to communicate. If a word has no definition, it’s just babble.
I like a lot of CJ’s writing, not all. But I also hate the name of her book.
What's worse...
...it turns something that should be defined by not being, or transcending, a group identity, into a very pronounced one that reeks of cognitive-imperialist cult. I think it's supposed to mean "enlightened/informed/lucid", but in hip-hop-ese. It's all part of the sweet-lemonization of ignorance and want that goes into "critical theory" and its various Orwellian progeny.
In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.
Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!
Hum... it’s late, and
I’ve had a couple cocktails and a bit of weed, so it could be me... but I’ve read your reply a few times and I don’t understand it. I’m sorry.
For me, this about the concept that words must mean something, something definable in a way that other people can understand, for that word to be useful as a communication device.
Insider lingo, or jargon, is ok for very narrow audiences, but is a barrier to effective communication with the larger world, everyone not in on the secret. It comes across as snobbish as well as meaningless. Not an attractive combination, IMO.
Well, you're not wrong
The problem is that I think we're dealing with something rooted in a pseudoscientific cult that is notorious specifically for its bottomless pit of jargon.
In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.
Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!
Shorthand for Plato’s cave analogy or Gnosticism
The attitude conveyed by “woke” as vulgar Plato:
“I’ve left the cave and seen the sun (and you/others haven’t)”
The attitude conveyed by “woke” as vulgar Gnosticism:
“I’ve joined the ranks of those who have been liberated from their chains by advanced knowledge (and you/others haven’t)”
As good as any,
and better than most.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Wikipedia is your friend.
The Black Lives Matter movement is responsible for the widespread use of the word woke.
Woke is a political term of African American origin that refers to a perceived awareness of issues concerning social justice and racial justice.[1] It is derived from the African American Vernacular English expression "stay woke", whose grammatical aspect refers to a continuing awareness of these issues. Its widespread use since 2014 is a result of the Black Lives Matter movement.[1][2]
Oxford Dictionaries records[3] early politically conscious usage in 1962 in the article "If You're Woke You Dig It" by William Melvin Kelley in The New York Times[4] and in the 1971 play Garvey Lives! by Barry Beckham ("I been sleeping all my life. And now that Mr. Garvey done woke me up, I’m gon stay woke. And I’m gon help him wake up other black folk.")[5] – Garvey had himself exhorted his early 20th century audiences, "Wake up Ethiopia! Wake up Africa!"[6]
Earlier, J. Saunders Redding recorded a comment from an African American United Mine Workers official in 1940 ("Let me tell you buddy. Waking up is a damn sight harder than going to sleep, but we'll stay woke up longer.")[7]
Woke
Thank you, that is useful to know
It didn’t even occur to me to check Wikipedia for a word definition. I really should have thought of that, and looked this up a long time ago. In light of this information, and in the morning light, I now grasp the point of liberal moonbat’s comment above.
It makes perfect sense now. Thank you.
My friend Josh Mitteldorf reminds me that Caitlin is also a poet
https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2018/03/01/summa-psychonautica-just-because/
(via Josh Mitteldorf’s Daily Inspiration blog)
https://dailyinspirationblog.wordpress.com/2018/06/29/just-because/
I don't read Caitlin Johnstone
never ever ever. heh I can't stand the way she communicates or something, her words repel me. I confess to commenting in this essay without reading the link, because I feel like I've read her all before. That ass ripping echo chamber is full.
good luck
I think Q is nothing more than a master
troll.
https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1510/32/1510320845603.png
He’s good at it too,
EDIT: changed W into Q 3 days later
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Slip of the typing finger? You of course meant Q?
I’m pretty sure you don’t mean W = Dubya, the 43rd POTUS, as I thought at first glance.
Even though he did a bang-up job at trolling the country and the world too.
Yep. I have a terrible time seeing the screen.i need a bigger
one. But my internet is on my phone
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
I really do not understand why anyone would
bother about someone who has Anon in his Name. Anonymity is like the
killing fields of Internet conversations. To hell with it.
From Germany with love...
https://www.euronews.com/live
As a Polish acquaintance on another site I frequent remarked:
Dear Germany,
Please invade and annex us. Kthxbye.
In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.
Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!
Sorry, I do not get the joke or snark
Germany is supposed to invade the US and Annex it?
https://www.euronews.com/live
Yes, and Poland
Your government is far more functional, and your society generally far healthier, than ours - or at least, that was true for a good long time - hence what was once heinous now sounds to some of us like an increasingly appealing idea.
Mind you, as a California native in particular, I might prefer Japan do the same even more; you both got the benefits of the "New Deal 2.0" that America never did.
In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.
Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!
Pied piper
Let me say up front that not all "conspiracy theories" are bunkum. Far from it. However, many can be easily disproved. Others will never be proved or disproved. Some are absolute truth. Some are variations of propaganda, types of control, particularly types of diversions.
I've followed this Q business to a degree. At first, I was fairly convinced that the postings were made by someone within Trump's inner circle, probably some lesser aide or something. However, having much experience with right-wing conspiracy stories, I was skeptical. In my opinion, I was right to be skeptical.
Caitlin lays out the logic of why the Q posts are not what they seem in her essays and also her Twitter posts. I find her logic hard to argue with. She's damn sharp, especially when it comes to seeing straight through propaganda of every stripe. What we've been missing is the technical side of skepticism. After all, anyone who has followed this story knows that Q has somehow magically posted text nearly identical to what was soon tweeted on Twitter by Trump himself. And make no mistake, this did indeed happen. This simple "duplication" move has caused many to be totally convinced that Q is a member of Trump's team, someone very, very close to President Trump. It seems like irrefutable proof that Q is legitimate. It turns out that there is an explanation as to how the text of Trumps tweets could be found in Q's posts - before they were seen on Twitter.
A few days ago, while following some unrelated search avenues, I swerved into a steemit website authored by someone posting as "RidleyChozo." Now, I know nothing about this Ridley Chozo whatsoever other that what I glean from his postings. I see that he's into the pizzagate affair in a big way, and has been following the Q story. I tend to believe this person is basically right-wing and most likely at least somewhat religious. In the case of seeing through Q, that may matter.
In his post on Q - here - he (?) immediately pronounces Q a false prophet. If I read RidleyChozo right - and I believe I do - he is convinced the Q story is an attack on Trump's core supporters. I believe Caitlin believes the same. Remember that the core Trump supporters held that the US needed to stop the multitude of foreign wars, close many of the hundreds of overseas US military bases, and were very supportive of a closer rapport with Russia. Trump campaigned on these issues as well.
RidleyChozo makes the case that Q has deleted posts which prove his lack of credibility. He shows the evidence and it's solid. He attempts to make the case that Q's posts mean nothing. He shows how Q steals the work of others and claims credit.
At the bottom of this posting by RidleyChozo, there is an amendment tacked on:
That's enough for now. The post by RidleyChozo is quite long and will take some time to read. I'm not vouching for any of his beliefs or nor do I care. It's the information he exposed regarding the Q posts that I'm interested in. However, I am interested in his view that the Q posts are a massive diversion aimed straight at Trump's core supporters.
Pepe the Frog is himself now in the pot of water and the heat is on high. It appears to me that the Trump supporters are the victims of their own methods. If RidleyChozo is right (and Caitlin, too), whoever or whatever Q may be seems to be leading them around as well as if he had a ring in their noses.
Thx. Who is "Pepe the Frog"?
I appreciate your willingness to spend time on people like RidleyChozo. I just don't have the bandwidth to attend to people who are completely anonymous, might be sock puppets for someone, and generally come from a weird/ideological ("religious") background.
Just to learn some technique, how would you go about deciding if RC is worth paying attention, or just a flake, or part of someone's QA-like influencing operation?
The lowdown on Pepe ... sort of
Pepe the frog is a commonly seen meme with alt-right publications, etc.
Here's a Wiki article about it.
Thanks. That history/elaboration is so weird
People have too much time on their hands, and social media is glad to suck it up and produce this kind of "in joke" that mutates into a codeword/signifier.
Kekistan? With a vaguely fascist looking flag, only its green.
Too weird for me.
But thanks for the heads up. I will add it to my list of codewords, like "88".
@arendt
I wasn't actively looking for Q info when I waltzed into RidleyChozo's essay. I don't even remember what I was searching for. So, I had no intention of spending any time there whatsoever ... until I started speed reading down through his essay. Yeah, his religious barkings nearly made me exit the site, but there was indeed something there. I kept reading.
There was value in what he wrote regarding the falsities of Q posts, the sudden dearth of "crystal ball" proclamations after Twitter abruptly changed the code which had previously allow those with the tech knowledge and/or wherewithal to "see" Twitter posts in real time, well before they actually appeared on the Twitter servers/network.
It's debatable that I'm anyone to teach any technique, but... Whether he - or she, or they - are worth attention would probably be best judged by whether the information he conveys is truthful. Can we verify his major points and/or what he's revealing? The usage of the "way back machine" Internet archives was a good move to check the veracity of Q. I myself checked and RidleyChozo's on the money with that. That thousands and thousands of core Trump people are now out chasing Q posts rather than holding Trump's feet to the fire regarding his massive back-pedaling re his campaign rhetoric, is also valid. Of course the Trumpsters' hanging on every cryptic verse of a Q post is no worse than your average Democrat falling head over tea kettle for the Russia!!! malarkey. I believe that is the point - diversion ... at least.
Again, I don't care about his religious views or political leanings other than to note that he's a bit of an odd bird to run afoul of his (seeming) right wing brothers-in-arms and their deification of our dear Q. In fact, Mr. or Ms. Chozo notices the God-like connection and comments on it. It's a bit much for me, but I know folks for whom it would not be; people with views and concerns similar to those of RidleyChozo.
I will take my information where ever I find it. All I ask is that I be able to prove it with solid evidence, or failing that, be able to use logic to show value. Naturally, that may be somewhat subjective - or not. It probably won't be the last time I find some tidbit in a writing such Chozo's essay.
So, in short, I feel the mysterious RidleyChozo delivered some well placed broadsides to the elusive Q. He meant to damage Q's credibility and I think he succeeded. Like you, I don't have the bandwidth to follow him, and will not.
Is QAnon different from Anonymous generally?
I assume so, since Anonymous is too widespread to accuse it of any particular ideology or affiliation, Anon being something that anybody can claim to be.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Huh. Clearly I am completely out of touch--
perhaps I have done too much caving up of late (I tend to stick my head up every few weeks to see if anything important has changed, and then go back down into my hole again, like a groundhog in February). I don't know who QAnon is. From the discussion here, s/he is clearly something different and more specific than Anon itself.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Its Ok to say you don't know
Nobody has time to track everything; and it has gotten pretty weird since Hillary stole the primaries, dodged jail time, and then lost to Trump.
I think by now you know that QAnon is a poster who professes to be leaking inside dope from the Trump administration. Early on, he posted stuff that later was confirmed. This gave him a X-files-like following among CTers. But, his posts themselves being CT, it has become very self-referential.
The rest you can imply from Caitlin's article and this thread.
@arendt Personally, I consider
Personally, I consider Trump to be much smaller potatoes than a lot of other people in the power structure around here, so I'm not that fussed about what he does in his benighted Administration--I'm sure the CIA and their rich backers are on top of the situation. Even Assange said only a few months into Trump's administration that Trump had now been digested ("Now we know how long it takes to digest a President"). It's unlikely Trump will do much that crosses the people who have been running the country for the past 40 years, and I already know everything I need to know about their agenda. At least, it's extremely tempting, at this point, to assume that I know everything I need to know about their agenda. Like I said, I do poke my head up every so often, but psychopathic world-destroying megalomaniacs pretty much have one general agenda, and the specifics don't seem to have changed that much. Apparently, there's a difference of opinion amongst the powerful (Trump and his military backers vs the Bush/Clinton/CIA/oil baron/Wall St cabal) as to whether to attack Iran/Russia, or to attack the Far East. Beyond that, I don't see a lot of quarrel amongst the players except that the most powerful (the Bush/Clinton/CIA/oil baron/Wall St cabal) are annoyed that they got an unexpected election result. Not surprising, given that they are control freaks of the worst kind.
Him who want to control
Always lose control
Him who wants everything
Always lose everything
Coffin going around
Have you seen Mr. Brown in town?
Him who want total control
Always lose control
Some always lose their soul
For silver and gold
Silver and gold are by none
Was in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth
Rise up and walk, rise up and walk
Rise up and walk, rise up and walk
Reaping time
Weeping time and reaping time
Weeping time and creeping time
Reap what you sow
Rockin' coming from the weeping mind
And all that I reap is mine
So you cannot reap what is mine
Say!
Was in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth
Black ganja cigarette
Kindly weed and ganja marijuana lung's breath
Rise up and walk, rise up and clap
Rise up and hap, rise up and lift up your cap
Lift up your cap, and rise up and hap
Do the thunder clap, great ball of fire on the sky
And reap your time, weep your mind
Weepin' time, reapin' time, harvest-harvest time
You reap what you sow, I reap what I sow!
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I think Trump is nothing more than distraction...
to cover the accelerated looting and police-state installation that is being rammed through Congress by both parties and being done by Executive Order and via the Cabinet departments. Trump is "look squirrel" while they finish off the job they have been at for 50 years.
Like you, I just don't care about QAnon for the same reasons. What is interesting to me is how the rest of the world is preparing itself to counter the next bit of US aggression.
At this point, having divested itself of its industrial capacity for the short-term benefit of its elites, and having destroyed its social cohesion for the profit of the drug dealing CIA, the US resembles the late Roman Empire. It pays "barbarian" outsiders to do its work - volunteer army and extensive use of mercenaries, both containing many non-nationals. Internally, its major corporations use the gigantic prison population as slave labor, as the later Roman Empire relied on the latifundia which had run honest farmers and artisans out of business.
Like Rome, it spends whatever capital it gets on wars and welfare for billionaires instead of investing it. Hence the need to conquer another country every couple of years. Ever since Obama got in, they've been successfully reconquering Latin America. Ever since W, the neocons have been trying to conquer MENA. Ever since Putin got in and "stole" Russia back from the oligarchs, they've been gobbling up Eastern Europe.
But now, all the "easy" pickings are gone, and the US is up against Russia and China - neither of whom are going to take any more shit from us. So the big question is how are they going to stop us? Economically? Militarily? Ideologically (all the alt-right parties winning elections all over Europe are friendly towards Russia)? That's what I focus on, and why I think Trump and QAnon are small potatoes (with small hands).
Brilliantly stated:
Iranians 'Suffering'
but USians are not? hmm Fuck Q! gesundheit
http://www.payvand.com/news/18/jun/1135.html
"Pompeo blamed the economic "suffering" on Washington's policies of funding a military intervention in Syria and providing financing for its allies in the Middle East"
head fake
"We condemn the US government's same futile tactics of suppression, imprisonment of protesters, and the denial of USians' frustrations,"
head fake
"But instead of reforming, Pompeo said US leaders have moved once again as they did earlier this year to stifle the protests through a police crackdown."
Where's the list of things non-white people can't do in public anymore, without being assaulted? Drive, shop, bbq, etc.. hmph.
Not to mention
substituting Israel for Iran in accusations of spending on war, engaging in war, and cracking down on protestors!
Q is punching down on the left
that's what I think. Q+ are not destroying the deep state, they are punching down on the left wing, same as it ever was.
I was getting my dopamine clicks watching the Anons support Assange, but he is not free and I don't know wtf is going on. For all I know he's in Guantanamo getting tortured by the likes of Gina Haspel, because why not.
Trump's cabinet and his advisors have all proven to be psychopaths, in my view. And yet here I am holding out HOPE that some "deal" will bring Snowden home and free Assange. They are my heroes, not Clinton, not Obomba, not Goldman Sachs, not Trump, NO.
peace
There was a limited immunity deal for Julian Assange
that was set to go through in the early days of the Trump administration that was on the table and just about ready to go through. DoJ was on board, but James Comey operating through Senator Mark Warner deep sixed the deal. Here is the link to the article that details that deal, how it was proposed and how it was killed.
Why did Comey kill the deal? My personal guess is that Comey was operating on behalf of the Clintons (and perhaps himself) to protect them from very damaging, unreleased information that Assange had in his posession.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
bigger than the clintonistas
They just don't want the truth to get out (bigger more powerful monsters). If they can't take their own medicine, FUGG EM. Someone is responsible for immoral behavior.
question everything
Once again, I just don't get it.
Nothing about y'all but doesn't Q stand for question, this? That does not try to become fact, as opposed to our (inter) national news source which tries to persuade you otherwise.
question everything