C99P op-ed: Gun Control

Submitted by gjohnsit on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 12:23am

I thought I might chime in with my own $0.02 on the subject of guns.

I agree with about 90% of what Jim Jefferies has to say.

Now a disclaimer:

I'm a gun owner.
I grew up in a small town in Montana in which the high school shut down for three days every November for deer hunting season.
I have no problem with regular people owning guns.

That being said, there are a whole lot of gun nuts out there.
Some of them are scary fanatics.
They are absolutists on the subject, without really thinking about it.

The hyperbolic rhetoric has a lot to do with it.

The rhetoric is all-or-nothing (2nd Amendment vs. take all of our guns), when it obviously isn't.
Both sides agree to some gun control. The debate is about the level of gun control.

For instance, even the NRA agree to a prohibition of guns on airplanes and for felons.
They also agree that people shouldn't practice with RPGs near schools and airports.

So really this is all about degree of gun control.

The next item that always comes up is freedom, and you can't compromise on freedom.
Except that the NRA does.
The NRA is horrified that ex-felons can vote, while fighting for their gun rights.
Voting rights? Who cares, amirite?

So it's really about priorities.
Some people think the 2nd Amendment protects all the other ones.

Except that none of them can give any evidence of that happening, nor even explain how it works.
All of the evidence points to their guns failing to protect anyone's rights, unless that right is to own guns, and that's circular.

I believe in the right of people to own guns, but I recognize that they are a last-resort in every sense, whether personal safety or liberty.
If you need a gun then things have already gone to sh*t, and if things are that bad then having lots of guns didn't prevent it.

Finally, there is the old "guns don't kill people, people kill people", and then they blame mental illness.
They claim they care about the victims and want to prevent these shootings.

But have you noticed they never have any suggestions for the mental health crisis?
It's as if they don't actually care about solutions.

What seems obvious is that the gun nuts are scared people, and scared, armed people are dangerous.
They are not alone.
Lots of people are scared today, and I think they have many good reasons to be scared.
It's just that their fear is being misdirected.

Maybe the solution to getting real gun control laws is to address those fears.

Tags:

Open Thread

Vote

Comments

Submitted by Ellen North on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 1:06am

Thanks! Have to stop the fear/hate media propaganda, I think.

First need a democratic government actually of, by and for the people, to do that, though... and non-corrupt courts.

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by Citizen Of Earth on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 1:10pm

So Democratic Austraila Banned Gunz

@Ellen North
resulting in Mass Shooting going To Zero.
I think it is safe to say that the US Congress are Whores to the NRA which is why that can't happen in the US.

There are more gunz in Merica than people. 300+ million gunz. I wonder how we compare to other countries by gun murder rates.
My new fav chart.

—

Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.

Submitted by thanatokephaloides on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 1:08am

address the fears

Lots of people are scared today, and I think they have many good reasons to be scared.
It's just that their fear is being misdirected.

Maybe the solution to getting real gun control laws is to address those fears.

Even better, if we address these fears, we just might be able to address the problem without any new laws.

Let's face it: when FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, and LBJ were in the Oval Office, we had much fewer restrictions on gun purchases and ownership than we do now. But there were no school mass shootings during the Administrations of those Presidents. None. And this during a time when there was no more restriction on buying a gun than buying a screwdriver: you could do it by mail or over a counter, anonymously. Yet there were no mass killings at schools of the kind we are so painfully familiar with today.

These killings are being driven by peculiarly American miseries, which is why the solutions which seem to work everywhere else don't work here even when attempted. No other nation on Earth resorts to prolonged foreign wars without necessity, expecting its citizens of these years to go fight and die for no good reason. No other nation categorically denies whole generations of its kids access to decent, family-supporting employments without subjecting them to decades of debt bondage for the "privilege". No other nation essentially guarantees the failure of every new family founded during the years most biologically appropriate for starting a family, the late teens and early twenties. No other nation insists that medicine be operated for private corporate profit, which means Americans in their late teens and early twenties don't have real access to it, either. And it is no secret to modern high schoolers that their chances of a happy, prosperous, and successful family life hover just north of nil. And I haven't addressed the challenges that all human beings their age worldwide face, such as global climate change.

Add that to any access to weaponry of any kind -- not just guns, but improvised explosive devices, knives, fire, poison, you name it -- and it's a freakin' miracle we don't see more bloody massacres than we do.

I'm not saying we need to reject all restrictions on guns as part of the solution. But I am saying that gun restrictions alone won't do the job. Not here in the USA. We need to address the despair faced by so many of our young adults. And until we do, the problem of school mass assaults will persist regardless of what we do about guns.

—

"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Submitted by WIProgressive on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 7:48am

Yes, wholeheartedly agree!

@thanatokephaloides

Lots of people are scared today, and I think they have many good reasons to be scared.
It's just that their fear is being misdirected.

Maybe the solution to getting real gun control laws is to address those fears.

Even better, if we address these fears, we just might be able to address the problem without any new laws.

Let's face it: when FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, and LBJ were in the Oval Office, we had much fewer restrictions on gun purchases and ownership than we do now. But there were no school mass shootings during the Administrations of those Presidents. None. And this during a time when there was no more restriction on buying a gun than buying a screwdriver: you could do it by mail or over a counter, anonymously. Yet there were no mass killings at schools of the kind we are so painfully familiar with today.

These killings are being driven by peculiarly American miseries, which is why the solutions which seem to work everywhere else don't work here even when attempted. No other nation on Earth resorts to prolonged foreign wars without necessity, expecting its citizens of these years to go fight and die for no good reason. No other nation categorically denies whole generations of its kids access to decent, family-supporting employments without subjecting them to decades of debt bondage for the "privilege". No other nation essentially guarantees the failure of every new family founded during the years most biologically appropriate for starting a family, the late teens and early twenties. No other nation insists that medicine be operated for private corporate profit, which means Americans in their late teens and early twenties don't have real access to it, either. And it is no secret to modern high schoolers that their chances of a happy, prosperous, and successful family life hover just north of nil. And I haven't addressed the challenges that all human beings their age worldwide face, such as global climate change.

Add that to any access to weaponry of any kind -- not just guns, but improvised explosive devices, knives, fire, poison, you name it -- and it's a freakin' miracle we don't see more bloody massacres than we do.

I'm not saying we need to reject all restrictions on guns as part of the solution. But I am saying that gun restrictions alone won't do the job. Not here in the USA. We need to address the despair faced by so many of our young adults. And until we do, the problem of school mass assaults will persist regardless of what we do about guns.

—

O.k. When is the next meeting for the revolution?
-FuturePassed on Sunday, November 25, 2018 10:22 p.m.

Submitted by The Aspie Corner on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 8:51am

Yup. This is what most people don't understand.

@thanatokephaloides Add to this that PresiDunce Dipshit and other Repigs and Porky Dems are now suggesting we arm the already disgruntled and frazzled teachers. As Eisenhower once expressed:

"It'll be a sad day if children can attend their classes only under the protection of armed guards."

And sadly, we already have those. Back in the mid 90s when I entered high school we called them "Resource Officers".

Lots of people are scared today, and I think they have many good reasons to be scared.
It's just that their fear is being misdirected.

Maybe the solution to getting real gun control laws is to address those fears.

Even better, if we address these fears, we just might be able to address the problem without any new laws.

Let's face it: when FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, and LBJ were in the Oval Office, we had much fewer restrictions on gun purchases and ownership than we do now. But there were no school mass shootings during the Administrations of those Presidents. None. And this during a time when there was no more restriction on buying a gun than buying a screwdriver: you could do it by mail or over a counter, anonymously. Yet there were no mass killings at schools of the kind we are so painfully familiar with today.

These killings are being driven by peculiarly American miseries, which is why the solutions which seem to work everywhere else don't work here even when attempted. No other nation on Earth resorts to prolonged foreign wars without necessity, expecting its citizens of these years to go fight and die for no good reason. No other nation categorically denies whole generations of its kids access to decent, family-supporting employments without subjecting them to decades of debt bondage for the "privilege". No other nation essentially guarantees the failure of every new family founded during the years most biologically appropriate for starting a family, the late teens and early twenties. No other nation insists that medicine be operated for private corporate profit, which means Americans in their late teens and early twenties don't have real access to it, either. And it is no secret to modern high schoolers that their chances of a happy, prosperous, and successful family life hover just north of nil. And I haven't addressed the challenges that all human beings their age worldwide face, such as global climate change.

Add that to any access to weaponry of any kind -- not just guns, but improvised explosive devices, knives, fire, poison, you name it -- and it's a freakin' miracle we don't see more bloody massacres than we do.

I'm not saying we need to reject all restrictions on guns as part of the solution. But I am saying that gun restrictions alone won't do the job. Not here in the USA. We need to address the despair faced by so many of our young adults. And until we do, the problem of school mass assaults will persist regardless of what we do about guns.

—

Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.

Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.

Submitted by lotlizard on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 4:12pm

There was a 1966 mass shooting — that would have been under LBJ

@thanatokephaloides
University of Texas tower shooting

Lots of people are scared today, and I think they have many good reasons to be scared.
It's just that their fear is being misdirected.

Maybe the solution to getting real gun control laws is to address those fears.

Even better, if we address these fears, we just might be able to address the problem without any new laws.

Let's face it: when FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, and LBJ were in the Oval Office, we had much fewer restrictions on gun purchases and ownership than we do now. But there were no school mass shootings during the Administrations of those Presidents. None. And this during a time when there was no more restriction on buying a gun than buying a screwdriver: you could do it by mail or over a counter, anonymously. Yet there were no mass killings at schools of the kind we are so painfully familiar with today.

These killings are being driven by peculiarly American miseries, which is why the solutions which seem to work everywhere else don't work here even when attempted. No other nation on Earth resorts to prolonged foreign wars without necessity, expecting its citizens of these years to go fight and die for no good reason. No other nation categorically denies whole generations of its kids access to decent, family-supporting employments without subjecting them to decades of debt bondage for the "privilege". No other nation essentially guarantees the failure of every new family founded during the years most biologically appropriate for starting a family, the late teens and early twenties. No other nation insists that medicine be operated for private corporate profit, which means Americans in their late teens and early twenties don't have real access to it, either. And it is no secret to modern high schoolers that their chances of a happy, prosperous, and successful family life hover just north of nil. And I haven't addressed the challenges that all human beings their age worldwide face, such as global climate change.

Add that to any access to weaponry of any kind -- not just guns, but improvised explosive devices, knives, fire, poison, you name it -- and it's a freakin' miracle we don't see more bloody massacres than we do.

I'm not saying we need to reject all restrictions on guns as part of the solution. But I am saying that gun restrictions alone won't do the job. Not here in the USA. We need to address the despair faced by so many of our young adults. And until we do, the problem of school mass assaults will persist regardless of what we do about guns.

Submitted by thanatokephaloides on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 5:16pm

1966 tower shooting Austin TX

@lotlizard Thank you for bringing that up. (I should have stopped with Kennedy anyway, as modern firearms restrictions began under LBJ as a reaction to the JFK assassination.)

That's still only one mass shooting in 30 years. We now often have more than one such shooting in 30 months, with more gun restrictions in place.

Another problem is in place, and it isn't being addressed at all.

—

"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Submitted by lotlizard on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 5:22pm

Yes, of course, that in no way invalidates your overall point

@thanatokephaloides
As with the decline of the middle class, this phenomenon incubated and developed and may even have been engineered; it was not always with us.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 5:24pm

^^This^^

@thanatokephaloides

You hammered the nail. The gun problem could be fixed if our government cared as much for us as they do their masters. This is what people in other countries have. This is why they don't have a gun problem.

Lots of people are scared today, and I think they have many good reasons to be scared.
It's just that their fear is being misdirected.

Maybe the solution to getting real gun control laws is to address those fears.

Even better, if we address these fears, we just might be able to address the problem without any new laws.

Let's face it: when FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, and LBJ were in the Oval Office, we had much fewer restrictions on gun purchases and ownership than we do now. But there were no school mass shootings during the Administrations of those Presidents. None. And this during a time when there was no more restriction on buying a gun than buying a screwdriver: you could do it by mail or over a counter, anonymously. Yet there were no mass killings at schools of the kind we are so painfully familiar with today.

These killings are being driven by peculiarly American miseries, which is why the solutions which seem to work everywhere else don't work here even when attempted. No other nation on Earth resorts to prolonged foreign wars without necessity, expecting its citizens of these years to go fight and die for no good reason. No other nation categorically denies whole generations of its kids access to decent, family-supporting employments without subjecting them to decades of debt bondage for the "privilege". No other nation essentially guarantees the failure of every new family founded during the years most biologically appropriate for starting a family, the late teens and early twenties. No other nation insists that medicine be operated for private corporate profit, which means Americans in their late teens and early twenties don't have real access to it, either. And it is no secret to modern high schoolers that their chances of a happy, prosperous, and successful family life hover just north of nil. And I haven't addressed the challenges that all human beings their age worldwide face, such as global climate change.

Add that to any access to weaponry of any kind -- not just guns, but improvised explosive devices, knives, fire, poison, you name it -- and it's a freakin' miracle we don't see more bloody massacres than we do.

I'm not saying we need to reject all restrictions on guns as part of the solution. But I am saying that gun restrictions alone won't do the job. Not here in the USA. We need to address the despair faced by so many of our young adults. And until we do, the problem of school mass assaults will persist regardless of what we do about guns.

—

Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

Submitted by WaterLily on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 5:52pm

Yes, and (but?)

@thanatokephaloides The AR-15 wasn't the weapon of choice for these psychos until the early '00s (thanks, Shrub).

In the late 1960s, ArmaLite gave up its patent, and manufacturers transitioned the M16 from military armories to the sporting-goods store as the AR-15, but its civilian debut was a dud, mostly because of its association with Vietnam. By the 1990s, the weapon sold well to hunters but it wasn't a blockbuster; its fortunes turned and sales exploded, however, when President George W. Bush in 2004 repealed the ban on assault weapons his predecessor, President Bill Clinton, enacted in 1994/strong>.

(Emphases mine).

So ... I'm not totally convinced that our collective maladies are worse now than they were "back in the day:" everything is relative. The one marked difference is that shooters in the '60s, '70s and '80s didn't own AR-15s. (IIRC, the UT-Austin shooter used a rifle, no?)

Lots of people are scared today, and I think they have many good reasons to be scared.
It's just that their fear is being misdirected.

Maybe the solution to getting real gun control laws is to address those fears.

Even better, if we address these fears, we just might be able to address the problem without any new laws.

Let's face it: when FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, and LBJ were in the Oval Office, we had much fewer restrictions on gun purchases and ownership than we do now. But there were no school mass shootings during the Administrations of those Presidents. None. And this during a time when there was no more restriction on buying a gun than buying a screwdriver: you could do it by mail or over a counter, anonymously. Yet there were no mass killings at schools of the kind we are so painfully familiar with today.

These killings are being driven by peculiarly American miseries, which is why the solutions which seem to work everywhere else don't work here even when attempted. No other nation on Earth resorts to prolonged foreign wars without necessity, expecting its citizens of these years to go fight and die for no good reason. No other nation categorically denies whole generations of its kids access to decent, family-supporting employments without subjecting them to decades of debt bondage for the "privilege". No other nation essentially guarantees the failure of every new family founded during the years most biologically appropriate for starting a family, the late teens and early twenties. No other nation insists that medicine be operated for private corporate profit, which means Americans in their late teens and early twenties don't have real access to it, either. And it is no secret to modern high schoolers that their chances of a happy, prosperous, and successful family life hover just north of nil. And I haven't addressed the challenges that all human beings their age worldwide face, such as global climate change.

Add that to any access to weaponry of any kind -- not just guns, but improvised explosive devices, knives, fire, poison, you name it -- and it's a freakin' miracle we don't see more bloody massacres than we do.

I'm not saying we need to reject all restrictions on guns as part of the solution. But I am saying that gun restrictions alone won't do the job. Not here in the USA. We need to address the despair faced by so many of our young adults. And until we do, the problem of school mass assaults will persist regardless of what we do about guns.

Submitted by thanatokephaloides on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 10:19pm

relative

@WaterLily

So ... I'm not totally convinced that our collective maladies are worse now than they were "back in the day:" everything is relative.

Actually, this can be reliably told by how difficult it is/was to provide for a family with children on only one job which one could reliably get without going into educational debt. "Back in the day", it was the norm; today, essentially impossible.

And it's now that we have the mass shootings.

The one marked difference is that shooters in the '60s, '70s and '80s didn't own AR-15s.

As you yourself point out -- correctly -- that didn't stop them.

—

"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Submitted by WaterLily on Sun, 02/25/2018 - 11:01am

Excellent point.

@thanatokephaloides

Actually, this can be reliably told by how difficult it is/was to provide for a family with children on only one job which one could reliably get without going into educational debt. "Back in the day", it was the norm; today, essentially impossible.

Submitted by Amanda Matthews on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 1:45am

This is what I wrote in an OP the other

night should happen:

NOTE: I firmly believe Americans have a right to own guns, but absolutely NOT semi-automatic or automatic weapons OR any sttachment like bumpstocks that will transform a gun into one.

I think anyone buying a gun must be able to pass a background check, even if you’re selling it to your own mother.. Anyone who doesn’t do a background check should face prosecution. A national database needs to be established to ensure this is possible. The background check would have to be done prior to taking possession.

I also think ALL guns, no matter where or who they are purchased from, to be registered before taking physical possession. This would be done after the background check is complete and the buyer goes to take possession. Anyone caught with an unregistered gun goes to jail. I think that if a gun owner’s weapon is stolen or ‘otherwise’ turns uo missing, he/she would HAVE to report it to law enforcement or again face prosecution. (Some might not if they think a relative swiped it.)

We already have gun laws on the books. They need to be enforced. Using a firearm in the commission of a crime already calls for serious penalties. That’s why that item is not on my list.

—

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

Submitted by janis b on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 2:43am

What a timely, classic (comic/tragic) reminder. Thank you n/t

Submitted by mimi on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 2:52am

thx. for the video, a needed comic relief about the issue ...

so, I will get myself a license for a hunting rifle one day. In my neighborhood forest there are too many boars, I rather eat them than getting attacked. People are scared to stroll through my childhood forest area these days. Other than that no need for those rights you are so concerned over.

—

https://www.euronews.com/live

Submitted by divineorder on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 11:44am

I grew up with guns in the house. We shot each other

with bb guns. SOOOOOO thankful we did not take the revolver left unguarded in my dad's sock drawer and shoot each other.

My dad was a wounded and decorated WWII vet who hated war, told me Viet Nam was all about making money.

He was a hunter and had shot guns, an old bold action rifle but never considered locking them up. As we now know, this was big mistake, given my parents had five children.

As far as the mass violence I blame the tv, movies and the media for making mass killings an attractive thing to some.

I'm with the American Federation of Teachers, our union before we retired from teaching High School.

#ArmMeWith school psychologists, support, resources. We don’t need guns, we need things that will make long-lasting change in our schools. https://t.co/0yQwdjqQWG

— AFT (@AFTunion) February 23, 2018

—

A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

Submitted by Meteor Man on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 12:04pm

Spot On!

@divineorder @divineorder

As far as the mass violence I blame the tv, movies and the media for making mass killings an attractive thing to some.

(emphasis added)

The "to some" part points out the need for school counselors instead of armed teachers and the necessity to treat and address the underlying cause of gun violence, which is emotional despair and psychological maladjustment in some people.

From old black & white cowboy shows to Rambo and beyond, Hollywood has glorified violence and catered to our darkest instincts. American Media blurs the line between entertainment and real life, between reality and fiction.

—

"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn

Submitted by divineorder on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 12:24pm

Thanks. The last gun I owned was in the early seventies.

@Meteor Man My wife jb had a teaching job but I was going to graduate school. We had a chance to buy a distressed house deal with an assumable FHA loan. Back then, they would not let her assume it alone because she might get pregnant. So I got a part time night security job. Had to buy a gun to get it. One night I heard a noise, dog barking in the house like crazy. Got up with the gun to go see. Heard a noise behind me, swung around and pointed it.... at my wife.

Got rid of it after that, have never owned a gun since.

One of jb's colleagues in her teaching job brought a gun to school in her purse. Not good.

—

A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

Submitted by thanatokephaloides on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 12:57pm

Congratulations!

@divineorder

Got up with the gun to go see. Heard a noise behind me, swung around and pointed it.... at my wife.

Got rid of it after that, have never owned a gun since.

Congratulations! You're better with a gun than Wild Bill Hickok (May 27, 1837 – August 2, 1876)!

The worst mistake Hickok ever made with a gun was in a situation where he heard a suspicious noise, turned toward it, fired..... and shot and killed his own deputy, colleague, and friend Mike Williams (October 5, 1871).

You managed not to do that!

—

"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Submitted by Meteor Man on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 2:09pm

@divineorder

@divineorder
Expressing the same idea quite eloquently:

Given the profits made by arms manufacturers, the defense industry, gun dealers and the lobbyists who represent them in Congress, it comes as no surprise that the culture of violence cannot be abstracted from either the culture of business or the corruption of politics. Violence runs through US society like an electric current offering instant pleasure from all cultural sources, whether it be the nightly news or a television series that glorifies serial killers.”

—Professor Henry A. Giroux

www.counterpunch.org/2018/02/20/americas-cult-of-violence-turns-deadly/

—

"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn

Submitted by wendy davis on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 12:04pm

chris rock on gun control

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuX-nFmL0II]

Submitted by Mark from Queens on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 12:59pm

We don't need gun control. We need "bullet" control.

@wendy davis @wendy davis

Make every bullet cost $5000, as Chris says. No more mass murders. It's brilliant.

Chris Rock was on fire on this special "Bigger & Blacker." Was at his absolute best, in also attacking insurance and pharma companies, the difference between white and black options for shopping, the Clinton/Lewinsky sensationalism, etc.

But I'm with the Australians all the way on this.

Since major gun law reforms were introduced in Australia, mass shootings have not only stopped, but there has also been an accelerating reduction in rates of firearm-related homicide and suicides, a landmark study has found.

It has been two decades since rapid-fire long guns were banned in Australia, including those already in private ownership, and 19 years since the mandatory buyback of prohibited firearms by government at market price was introduced. A handgun buyback program was later introduced, in 2003...

In the 18 years to 1996, Australia experienced 13 fatal mass shootings in which 104 victims were killed and at least another 52 were wounded. There have been no fatal mass shootings since that time, with the study defining a mass shooting as having at least five victims.

The utterly hare-brained defense of a good guy with a gun or one under your bed to protect one's family (and in its most extreme, beyond-absurd version of suggesting we arm teachers) is totally farcical. It presumes so many ridiculous scenarios that the odds just aren't with.

The 2nd Amendment, written to appease Southern States as a way for them to give their slave-holding citizens rights to form a "well regulated militia" in order to kill or capture (and then beat mercilessly with impunity) runaway slaves, has been completely been bastardized.

Thanks to the greedy, blood-drenched NRA and its batteries of attorneys-for-hire who put well-placed legal mumbo jumbo in law journals conflating an outdated, racist law with he-man, rugged individualist libertarianism, we have the worst representation and most erroneous interpretations of what the concepts of freedom and liberty are.

Wouldn't real freedom and liberty be living in a society in which one doesn't have to exist in the shadows of fearing being foreclosed upon for a medical emergency, or astronomical student dent? Wouldn't there be true freedom in a socialist society in which all the sectors every one used are state run, such as the power grid, internet, etc. Maybe people could then even work in something they liked, or pursued a dream - instead of taking shit jobs "for the insurance." It's got to be the single most equally deeply sad and disturbing thing that so many of our countrymen have been duped to think the highest enshrinement of freedom and liberty comes from owning a fucking gun.

Remember how these conservative gun rights morons reacted when the Black Panthers showed up at the CA. statehouse to claim their gun rights? I love laying that on these schumcks, "well, then let's arm all black people across America. They deserve to protect themselves and their families too, don't they?"

It has no fucking place in the 21st century, none whatsoever.

As the great Southern Rock band Lynyrd Skynyrd sang (defying their redneck reputation) on "Saturday Night Special," summing it up quite nice in the last verse:

Hand guns are made for killin'
Ain't no good for nothin' else
And if you like your whiskey
You might even shoot yourself

So why don't we dump 'em people
To the bottom of the sea
Before some fool come around here
Wanna shoot either you or me

—

"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:

THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"

- Kurt Vonnegut

Submitted by wendy davis on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 2:25pm

ah, i'd weighed in on school mass murders, spree killings

@Mark from Queens

earlier w/ 'Poisonous Pedagogy and our Culture of Violence' starting w/ Sandyhook, updated for Las Vegas. past the into, alice miller's Poisonoue Pedagogy theories, then on to 'Re: the young, socially marginalized profiles of mass murders', and '‘The “Pseudocommando” Mass Murderer: A Blaze of Vainglory', and the current zeigeist in all its ignominy.

#7 #7 Make every bullet cost $5000, as Chris says. No more mass murders. It's brilliant. Chris Rock was on fire on this special "Bigger & Blacker." Was at his absolute best, in also attacking insurance and pharma companies, the difference between white and black options for shopping, the Clinton/Lewinsky sensationalism, etc. But I'm with the Australians all the way on this. Since major gun law reforms were introduced in Australia, mass shootings have not only stopped, but there has also been an accelerating reduction in rates of firearm-related homicide and suicides, a landmark study has found. It has been two decades since rapid-fire long guns were banned in Australia, including those already in private ownership, and 19 years since the mandatory buyback of prohibited firearms by government at market price was introduced. A handgun buyback program was later introduced, in 2003... In the 18 years to 1996, Australia experienced 13 fatal mass shootings in which 104 victims were killed and at least another 52 were wounded. There have been no fatal mass shootings since that time, with the study defining a mass shooting as having at least five victims. The utterly hare-brained defense of a good guy with a gun or one under your bed to protect one's family (and in its most extreme, beyond-absurd version of suggesting we arm teachers) is totally farcical. It presumes so many ridiculous scenarios that the odds just aren't with. The 2nd Amendment, written to appease Southern States as a way for them to give their slave-holding citizens rights to form a "well regulated militia" in order to kill or capture (and then beat mercilessly with impunity) runaway slaves, has been completely been bastardized. Thanks to the greedy, blood-drenched NRA and its batteries of attorneys-for-hire who put well-placed legal mumbo jumbo in law journals conflating an outdated, racist law with he-man, rugged individualist libertarianism, we have the worst representation and most erroneous interpretations of what the concepts of freedom and liberty are. Wouldn't real freedom and liberty be living in a society in which one doesn't have to exist in the shadows of fearing being foreclosed upon for a medical emergency, or astronomical student dent? Wouldn't there be true freedom in a socialist society in which all the sectors every one used are state run, such as the power grid, internet, etc. Maybe people could then even work in something they liked, or pursued a dream - instead of taking shit jobs "for the insurance." It's got to be the single most equally deeply sad and disturbing thing that so many of our countrymen have been duped to think the highest enshrinement of freedom and liberty comes from owning a fucking gun. Remember how these conservative gun rights morons reacted when the Black Panthers showed up at the CA. statehouse to claim their gun rights? I love laying that on these schumcks, "well, then let's arm all black people across America. They deserve to protect themselves and their families too, don't they?" It has no fucking place in the 21st century, none whatsoever. As the great Southern Rock band Lynyrd Skynyrd sang (defying their redneck reputation) on "Saturday Night Special," summing it up quite nice in the last verse: Hand guns are made for killin' Ain't no good for nothin' else And if you like your whiskey You might even shoot yourself So why don't we dump 'em people To the bottom of the sea Before some fool come around here Wanna shoot either you or me

Submitted by divineorder on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 12:17pm

Heh. Email this week but not linking through

to the site.

Millions of people have seen Emma Gonzalez's speech that went viral calling "BS" on politicians who say nothing can be done about guns.

To support the Parkland student activists in their mission, we've gotten Emma's blessing to put together this 60-second TV ad featuring her speech. It pressures Paul Ryan, who has the most power to schedule votes on background checks and a ban on assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition clips.

Another Parkland survivor pleaded, "Please! We are children. You guys are the adults. Take action...get something done!”

This is one way we can act RIGHT NOW.

Can you donate $3 or more to get this ad on the air in Paul Ryan's district right away?

You can donate on this page or by mail here.

—

A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

Submitted by thanatokephaloides on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 12:44pm

Ryan? ROTFLMAOASTC!

@divineorder

~~Prince Ramses~~ Speaker Ryan? Schedule gun control votes?

ROTFLMAOASTC! (ROTFLMAO And Scaring The Cats!)

Randy Bryce is right: We need to "repeal and replace" Paul Ryan. Anyone who openly admires Ayn Rand has no business having power over anyone's life.

—

"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Submitted by lotlizard on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 4:49pm

A wee bit late for the country to come to that realization…

@thanatokephaloides

Anyone who openly admires Ayn Rand has no business having power over anyone's life.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Greenspan

Democratic president Bill Clinton reappointed Greenspan, and consulted him on economic matters.

In the early 1950s, Greenspan began an association with novelist and philosopher Ayn Rand. . . . Rand nicknamed Greenspan "the undertaker" because of his penchant for dark clothing and reserved demeanor. Although Greenspan was initially a logical positivist, he was converted to Rand's philosophy of Objectivism by her associate Nathaniel Branden. He became one of the members of Rand's inner circle, the Ayn Rand Collective, who read Atlas Shrugged while it was being written. During the 1950s and 1960s Greenspan was a proponent of Objectivism, writing articles for Objectivist newsletters and contributing several essays for Rand's 1966 book Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal including an essay supporting the gold standard. Rand stood beside him at his 1974 swearing-in as Chair of the Council of Economic Advisers. Greenspan and Rand remained friends until her death in 1982.

Submitted by thanatokephaloides on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 5:22pm

"that realization"

A wee bit late for the country to come to *that* realization…

Not this old Irish boy, @lotlizard . Ever since I've known about Ayn Rand, I've been telling this to anyone who will listen. That's been a good 45 years. And my relatives on my mother's side have been at it longer than I have.

And you're spot-on the money about Alan Greenspan.

—

"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Submitted by lotlizard on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 5:41pm

Ayn Rand was on the late ’50s-early ’60s approved book lists

@thanatokephaloides
from which we were supposed to choose when writing a book report for school.

Now I wonder who drew up that list and had the power to make schools in Hawaii use it.

Submitted by WIProgressive on Sun, 02/25/2018 - 7:32am

Bernie appeared with Bryce yesterday to a packed house.

@thanatokephaloides He could possibly "Canter" Ryan. Just a thought about messaging on gun "control". Could we start saying "gun safety"? I mean no one wants to be controlled. Why do we always use the messaging of the Reich? Start using words like gun safety and gun responsibility may somewhat lessen the fear of those perceiving their "right" is being controlled.

—

O.k. When is the next meeting for the revolution?
-FuturePassed on Sunday, November 25, 2018 10:22 p.m.

Submitted by gjohnsit on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 12:27pm

A totally different kind of gun control problem

US losing influence in Iraq

Despite having relied on the US to fight the Islamic State (IS), Baghdad has just taken delivery of a major shipment of Russian military equipment and is considering further such arms purchases.
Iraq announced earlier this week that 73 Russian T-90 tanks had arrived at its southern port of Umm Qasr. The tank purchase was agreed upon some time ago, but other reports suggest that Baghdad may now buy the Russian S-400 air defense system.

If Baghdad proceeds with the S-400 purchase, it could well oblige the Trump administration to impose sanctions on the country. Such a move would be mandated by a bill known as CAATSA, “Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act,” which President Donald Trump signed into law last summer.

Submitted by Ellen North on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 4:28pm

@gjohnsit

@gjohnsit

So the world's countries now have to buy outside of America in order to maintain their freedom?

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by Citizen Of Earth on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 12:58pm

President Shithole Wants To Arm The Teachers

He says if teachers conceal carry guns, then the bad guys won't know who has a gun.
Gee what perfect logic. Let's adopt that logic at the White House. So no one in the WH will know who is carrying. That should make President Shithole feel real safe. Hahahaa.

—

Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.

Submitted by Ellen North on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 4:30pm

@Citizen Of Earth

@Citizen Of Earth

So any mass shooters first shoot the teachers, then the kids they might have been able to save by helping them hide? That ought to cut back on pension pay-outs!

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by gjohnsit on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 3:10pm

Democratic Socialists thank the NRA

first the speech

“They are not Democrats in the mold of John F. Kennedy or Tip O’Neill,” said LaPierre. “They hide behind labels like Democrat, left-wing and progressive to make their socialist agenda more palatable, and that is terrifying . . . absolute control in every corner of our government is their ultimate dream.”
Watching from afar, actual socialists found the spectacle amusing. After LaPierre warned that Young Democratic Socialists of America had organized more than 100 campus groups, the organization cut it into a quick promotional video.

and it paid off

National Rifle Association CEO Wayne LaPierre issued a warning to the Conservative Political Action Conference on Thursday: young socialists are taking over the country.
That call was a boon to the Democratic Socialists of America, the largest socialist organization in the United States, the group said. It helped boost membership for the comparatively small group throughout the day.
“The joins today were 3x that of an average day,” Lawrence Dreyfuss, DSA program associate told The Daily Beast as Thursday evening. By Friday, he said that DSA had more than 100 sign-ups on Thursday and that the average joins per day is about 32.

Submitted by Meteor Man on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 4:11pm

The NRA's Political Powerhouse

(Marion) Hammer is the National Rifle Association’s Florida lobbyist. At 78-eight years old, she is nearing four decades as the most influential gun lobbyist in the United States. Her policies have elevated Florida’s gun owners to a uniquely privileged status, and made the public carrying of firearms a fact of daily life in the state. Daley was referring to a law that Hammer worked to enact in 2011, during Governor Rick Scott’s first year in office. The statute punishes local officials who attempt to establish gun regulations stricter than those imposed at the state level. Officials can be fined thousands of dollars and removed from office.

One example:

From this office, Hammer has shepherded laws into existence that have dramatically altered long-held American norms and legal principles. In the 1980s, in Florida, she crafted a statute that allows anyone who can legally purchase a firearm to carry a concealed handgun in public, as long as that person pays a small fee for a state-issued permit and completes a rudimentary training course. The law has been duplicated, in some form, in almost every state, and more than 16 million Americans now have licenses to carry a concealed handgun.

Click through for this interactive map:

NRA Grades of Florida Lawmakers

Toggle between the House and Senate districts. In Florida, 91 percent of Republicans have a grade of A-minus or higher from the NRA.

Hammer is responsible for Stand Your Ground:

During the first week of June, just before public hearings got under way, The Tampa Bay Times published the results of its own investigation into Stand Your Ground. The paper found that, since the law had taken effect, nearly 70 percent of those who invoked it as a defense had gone free. There was a racial imbalance: a person was more likely to be found innocent if the victim was black.

For 40 years Florida has been the political incubator for the NRA. Way more background and details here:

https://www.thetrace.org/features/nra-influence-florida-marion-hammer-gu...

—

"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn

Submitted by Ellen North on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 4:34pm

@Meteor Man

@Meteor Man

I hope nobody's still retiring/touristing there... Couldn't pay me to go anywhere near the place. Apart from all else, the fashion police would probably pick me off, walking in.

(Marion) Hammer is the National Rifle Association’s Florida lobbyist. At 78-eight years old, she is nearing four decades as the most influential gun lobbyist in the United States. Her policies have elevated Florida’s gun owners to a uniquely privileged status, and made the public carrying of firearms a fact of daily life in the state. Daley was referring to a law that Hammer worked to enact in 2011, during Governor Rick Scott’s first year in office. The statute punishes local officials who attempt to establish gun regulations stricter than those imposed at the state level. Officials can be fined thousands of dollars and removed from office. One example: From this office, Hammer has shepherded laws into existence that have dramatically altered long-held American norms and legal principles. In the 1980s, in Florida, she crafted a statute that allows anyone who can legally purchase a firearm to carry a concealed handgun in public, as long as that person pays a small fee for a state-issued permit and completes a rudimentary training course. The law has been duplicated, in some form, in almost every state, and more than 16 million Americans now have licenses to carry a concealed handgun. Click through for this interactive map: NRA Grades of Florida Lawmakers Toggle between the House and Senate districts. In Florida, 91 percent of Republicans have a grade of A-minus or higher from the NRA. Hammer is responsible for Stand Your Ground: During the first week of June, just before public hearings got under way, The Tampa Bay Times published the results of its own investigation into Stand Your Ground. The paper found that, since the law had taken effect, nearly 70 percent of those who invoked it as a defense had gone free. There was a racial imbalance: a person was more likely to be found innocent if the victim was black. For 40 years Florida has been the political incubator for the NRA. Way more background and details here: https://www.thetrace.org/features/nra-influence-florida-marion-hammer-gu...

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by The Aspie Corner on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 4:42pm

Living in Flawer'Duh is worse.

@Ellen North Services in this state have been drowned in the bathtub (Don't even get me started on Voc Rehab). Employment is so scarce that finding a job is like finding a needle in a haystack. And we have nowhere to go.

—

Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.

Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.

Submitted by MrWebster on Sat, 02/24/2018 - 5:00pm

I am not even sure what is politically possible anymore.

I think you are right. Many gun owners would have no problem with any number of gun control laws. For example, Oregon just passed a law on restricting guns to crazies. And the state has one of thee most "liberal" concealed carry laws.

Except for some of the crazies, nobody seemed to be bothered by the ban on hi-cap magazines.

But is seems especially after Sandy that politically nothing for whatever reason will be done.

My own personal fantasy would be to ban all semi-auto pistols 9mm and above. Ban all semi-auto rifles except to .22s.

In return, basically the only guns would be revolves, bolt-action rifles, and shotguns. People could still have a gun, but the not any of the larger caliber semis. Concealed carry permitted but only revolvers.

Submitted by BrutallyHonest on Sun, 02/25/2018 - 7:53pm

An amazing diary as usual

Thank you @gjohnsit for an in-depth an brutally honest post as are all your posts.

Heres my meme on the topic.

Conservative Gun Control Plan: Arm every F ing one!
Liberal Gun Control Plan: Uh.. while you think we want to take away all of your guns, we uh... just want to make semi automatics illegal.
Progressive Gun Violence Plan: When people feel like they have no future because they are in debt, have no health care, and/or are working long hours at a crappy paying job(s) they are more likely to resort to sociopathic behavior. If we want to solve our gun violence problems we must provide free healthcare, debt forgiveness, living wages, and affordable housing.