Friday Open Thread 03-27-15

Groupthink is a term coined by psychologist Irving Janis in 1972 to describe a process by which a group can make bad or irrational decisions. In a groupthink situation, each member of the group attempts to conform his or her opinions to what they believe to be the consensus of the group. In a general sense this seems to be a rational way to approach the situation. However this results in a situation in which the group ultimately agrees upon an action which each member might individually consider to be unwise

http://www.psysr.org/about/pubs_resources/groupthinkpresentation.ppt.pdf

Some comments in the ongoing debate regarding Senator Elizabeth Warren’s outspoken critiques of our political system got me to thinking about that system and people’s 9.12_tea_party_in_DCreactions to it. Warren is criticized by the Right for obvious reasons, given her strong stances on managing the economy and controlling the excesses of the Corporate Culture. In a sense she offends their sense of political purity...

http://flowersforsocrates.com/2014/02/27/the-misplaced-pursuit-of-politi...

It's Friday and I think everybody should join the Funk Party.

Have a great weekend!

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NCTim's picture

Have a groovy weekend.

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The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. - Friedrich Nietzsche -

Big Al's picture

Interesting article there about the Elizabeth Warren critiques and political purity. I don't agree but interesting.
I'll have to read it further, just waking, but no, if Elizabeth Warren believes in U.S. imperialism then I don't give a fuck
what she thinks about Social Security and the Minimum wage.
(Just trying to avoid the old groupthink thing)

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Big Al's picture

I can see Warren was just an example of a larger argument. Obviously if we're going to play this representative
government game and vote for a politician that represents up to one million other people, we're not going to get
one that agrees with everything we do. The purity test thing is more of a party thing, has been for a long time. People
used to ask back in the fifties and sixties whether you were a dem or repub and those that still play do the same thing.
In the end, the purity test is more based on party than it is on what each politician's views are.

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NCTim's picture

Until revealed by their masters. It is not possible to convince people of the John Bircher philosophy, but you can buy politicians to implement John Birch ideology.

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The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. - Friedrich Nietzsche -

NCTim's picture

I think that is how we get things like "the grand bargain" or persistent memes about an earned benefit being an entitlement.

The calculus goes like this. 100 Senators are not smarter than a single Senator, they are 0.01 times as smart as a single Senator.

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The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. - Friedrich Nietzsche -

gulfgal98's picture

Regarding Elizabeth Warren, I disagree very much with her on what I have seen about her foreign policy stands. So that means I would never back her for national office. But she adds great value in Congress on the economic discussion, so I am not going to dismiss what she has to say about that just because I disagree with her on her foreign policy stands.

This is exactly why we must continue to focus on issues instead of personalities. If we have to form temporary alliances to get our issue addressed the way we wish, I am all for it. A good example may be the TPP. I have absolutely zero problem aligning myself with some whacko like Rand Paul or whomever if we can defeat the fast track and ultimately the TPP.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Unabashed Liberal's picture

as well.

From Wikipedia and NC:

Political affiliation


Warren voted as a Republican for many years saying, "I was a Republican because I thought that those were the people who best supported markets".[17] She states that in 1995 she began to vote Democratic because she no longer believed that to be true, but she says that she has voted for both parties because she believed that neither party should dominate.[28]

But at least I would consider voting for Warren--more than I could say for any of the rest of the serious contenders.

And I definitely appreciate her populist voice on economic and social insurance issues.

I'll try to find a short post that I wrote a year ago. Had one of her best floor speeches to date, IMO.

Thanks for the thread, Tim.

Mollie

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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

And kudos about Elizabeth Warren...she's one of the few voices left in the Democratic Party that makes sense.

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praenomen

Unabashed Liberal's picture

but I'm afraid that it might be even worse than that.

IOW, the DLC takeover rendered the Dem Party "the Party of Pete Peterson," and neoliberalism.

(WJC is almost always the 'keynote speaker' at the Peterson annual Fiscal Summit.)

Heck, Mitt Romney refused to even speak at Peterson's Fiscal Summit when he was running for President. I thought that was rich.

But WJC, Patty Murray, Pelosi, etc., have no problem at all, participating.

One of the folks who did the most harm to American's pensions, especially women's, last Congress, Barbara Mikulski, announced that she is stepping down.

She is ranking member of the very powerful Senate Appropriations Committee. I'm convinced that this was to signal to the One Percenters that they will get 'entitlement reform.'

(Same for Reid's announcement.)

I'm really concerned that Reid's retirement means that we had all better get ready for a major 'reaming.'

One like we've never even imagined!

Help

Mollie

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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

Unabashed Liberal's picture

[Video Credit: Teresa Ghilarducci: The Retirement Crisis, INETeconomics, YouTube, 19:10 Minutes]

She is one economist who speaks out against the high fees that are charged by many brokerage houses on 401Ks, etc.

She also supports changing the Medicare eligibility age to '60.'

Mollie

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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

Unabashed Liberal's picture

but can't find a really concise and top notch 'primer' on Tweeting.

Anyone know of such an animal?

I've got so much material to disseminate during this election cycle, that writing posts alone, is simply not doable [considering that I must greatly reduce the time that I can allot to such an endeavor].

Plus, I'm increasingly becoming convinced that "Twitter" might have an even greater reach (audience).

Anyhoo, I'll keep checking it out, but any suggestions would be much appreciated.

I have used "Tweet Deck," but some say "Social Flow" is better. Has anyone used Social Flow?

Thanks!

Mollie

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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

mimi's picture

for some writers it's a compulsively used method to promote their thoughts and ideas and articles. What I find annoying is that with the retweeting of those tweets you end up with tweets that cover older articles.

I consider it just a tool to promote a writers articles and for those who do not write to know fast what someone has written. It can get a compulsive activity. It's a tool for journalists and authors. Not so much for readers only.

Personally I wait for the day I can live without the news and be happy to have a blank sheet in my mind with regards to what's going on in the world. Smile

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

there are really excellent pieces (especially from Reuters, The Guardian, etc) that I've been made aware of, that I probably would not have seen, otherwise.

Mollie

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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

gulfgal98's picture

I find Twitter an excellent way to keep up with the latest news. News and articles will break first on Twitter. The key is being selective in who you follow. If you follow good sources, you will find great value in Twitter. As far as your question, I am so technically deficient so I am of no help whatsoever. Sorry.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

mimi's picture

has been published by your favorite news sources. That's why I look into it. Just can't handle the amount of things that I would like to read in depth and don't, because it's just too much for me to handle. I am always in awe how other people can do that. Didn't mean to put the usage of twitter down.

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mimi's picture

Good morning, afternoon, read a little bit of the groupthink pdf and will do so later. Can't quite concentrate on the Warren stuff yet.

Unfortunately my mind is occupied with the question of "what kind of medical mental health condition the co-pilot of the Germanwing flight that he crashed into the Alps" was having, was hiding and what it will be categorized at. I am compulsively checking on updates. Bad compulsion that's for sure.

The co-pilot had apparently a long-time on and off mental health condition, which is not simply a depression. It might have been part of a condition that goes beyond that. It's now shown that during his training he took off for a longer time and was also at that time categorized as "unfit to fly". It would be nice to know, who made the decision back then to categorize him that way and for what reasons? That was years ago.

He was continuously in treatment for "the condition" and he did not reveal that to his employer. A doctor had written him "sick and unable to work" from the 16th to 29th of march. The way it works in Germany, you can simply choose your therapist and if you feel really bad, you go and discuss it with your therapist. If the therapist decides you need to get a break and are not fit to work, the doctor writes a note, which usually a person has to provide his employer with, if he misses more than two days of work. This doctors note was found, shredded, in a waste basket at his home. Now, I would say what makes this more serious is the fact that the co-pilot also checked himself in at the Duesseldorfer Hospital and get checked out for said unknown condition on March 10th. The way things work in Germany, you don't go into a huge and well-known quality hospital, if you don't have something going on that a "over the counter" private doctor/therapist" couldn't handle.

This is very disturbing. Especially the fact that it could be hidden by the co-pilot.

There have been more things retrieved from his and his parents homes, which is said to probably give more clues as to what was "going on with the mind of Lubitz".

I was asking myself, if there is a way the hospital's doctors and his private doctors could deny access to the medical records, and if the doctors and family members and friends can refuse to be interrogated. It will take one or two more days probably to understand what they in addition could retrieve from his computer and or other things they seem to have but didn't describe the nature of.

To read reactions to this terrible monstrosity of a murder/suicide is a study in itself. And it's hard to really differentiate between suicide, murder-suicide, terrorist action, depression, may be a compulsive-obsessive disorder of recurring thoughts.

I wonder - as flying, gliding is such a sought-after experience among young students - what kind of "high" do people get when gliding in a glider plane. It was a dream of the co-pilot as a teen already. I read answers that the power to control the plane alone remaining in the air is THE exitement? Having power over the stick. But usually you would think with the exitement goes the pride to be able to maintain the plane in the air and land safely. So what else could go on? Could a person have recurring compulsive thoughts of "not being able, or not wanting to keep the plane up in the air"?

As you can see I can't wrap my mind around other issues and I would like to find an answer. I hope they will honestly and openly reveal what mental issue the co-pilot had. As he was treated and checked even in a hospital for it, that should be a "defined" condition he had.

Ok, sorry. Don't know where else to talk about it.

And thanks for offering great issues in your open thread. Good fellow.

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mimi's picture

at the exact location where he crashed the A320.

Germanwings co-pilot 'obsessed' with Alps

I rest my head.

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

in order to allow him to pretty much take over the position [prior to the election].

(Per Mike Menoli, LA Times, etc., on POTUS with Mason.)

Mollie

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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

gulfgal98's picture

Dash 1

Sad

Dash 1

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy