When you don't have universal health care

Submitted by gjohnsit on Mon, 10/02/2017 - 6:51pm

A high school student in Wisconsin asked Sen. Ron Johnson (R-WI) if health care was a right or a privilege.

“I think it’s probably more of a privilege,” Johnson said in response to the question. “Do you consider food a right? Do you consider clothing a right? Do you consider shelter a right? What we have as rights are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. We have the right to freedom. Past that point, everything else is a limited resource that we have to use our opportunities given to us so that we can afford those things.”

I always put necessities for life in a different category than privileges.
Then again, maybe Johnson is saying the poor should just die.

In that context, with yesterday's events in mind, this shouldn't come as a surprise.

The hundreds wounded are being tended to in Clark County’s network of hospitals in Nevada. But because this is a country that has never had guaranteed universal health care, they will soon be besieged by a second tragedy: enormous medical bills.
This morning, Clark County Commission Chair Steve Sisolak, set up a GoFundMe, a private crowdfunding platform, to request charity for those injured in the massacre.
...Nevada’s Republican Gov. Brian Sandoval vetoed legislation over the summer that would have allowed Nevadans to buy into the state’s Medicaid program.
Asking strangers for charitable donations to tackle medical bills is ubiquitous in the United States. A report by NerdWallet released in 2015 found that $930 million of the $2 billion raised by GoFundMe since its 2010 launch have been related to medical bills. Yet NerdWallet’s comprehensive survey of crowdfunding sites found that barely 1 in 10 medical campaigns raised the full amount they asked for.

I have no problems with charity. I just don't think it's a substitute for the responsibilities of society.
But even that doesn't explain this.

A program that provides health coverage to some nine million children was allowed by the GOP-controlled Congress to expire over the weekend.
CHIP, or the Children’s Health Insurance Program, a bipartisan initiative which was originally co-sponsored by Republican Sen. Orrin Hatch and the late Ted Kennedy in the 1990s, allows children who fall above the Medicaid threshold to obtain low-cost health insurance.
...The Senate Finance Committee is holding a CHIP bill markup on Wednesday but states have already been bracing for the worst and some may have to shut down their children’s health program until funding is received.
Ten states, including Arizona, California, Minnesota, North Carolina and Washington, D.C., will run out of funding between October and December, according to the Medicaid and CHIP Payment and Access Commission (MACPAC), a nonpartisan congressional advisory body, but most are projected to exhaust money by March 2018.
...At about $14 billion a year, the program is significantly smaller than Medicare and Medicaid, and is responsible for reducing the uninsured rate among children from 14 percent to 5 percent over two decades.

Combine all this with the intentional sabotage of Obamacare, and a clear pattern emerges.

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Comments

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Mon, 10/02/2017 - 7:15pm

This!

I have no problems with charity. I just don't think it's a substitute for the responsibilities of society.

What does our lack of caring for our fellow citizens say about this country as a society? IMHO, it says that we are barbaric in our treatment of those members of our society who happen to be less fortunate.

Right now I am not even the least bit proud to say that I am an American.

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Submitted by thanatokephaloides on Mon, 10/02/2017 - 7:23pm

rights

“I think it’s probably more of a privilege,” Johnson said in response to the question. “Do you consider food a right? Do you consider clothing a right? Do you consider shelter a right?

Yes, I do.

What we have as rights are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. We have the right to freedom. Past that point, everything else is a limited resource that we have to use our opportunities given to us so that we can afford those things.”

What "opportunities"?

It's obvious Johnson hasn't had to support himself on an hourly wage in decades, perhaps even long enough ago that we still had an adult-supporting minimum wage in this country.

I always put necessities for life in a different category than privileges.
Then again, maybe Johnson is saying the poor should just die.

That's exactly what he's saying!

And not just the poor, either; but all the non-rich.

—

"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Submitted by CS in AZ on Mon, 10/02/2017 - 11:39pm

Life, liberty, and happiness with no food or shelter or clothes

@thanatokephaloides

How does that work? What a pile of double talk. He is just another liar, saying any stupid bullshit to justify his ideology. I don't get how anyone buys this obvious flim flam.

Submitted by thanatokephaloides on Mon, 10/02/2017 - 11:46pm

flim-flam

@CS in AZ

Life, liberty, and happiness with no food or shelter or clothes

How does that work? What a pile of double talk. He is just another liar, saying any stupid bullshit to justify his ideology. I don't get how anyone buys this obvious flim flam.

Well, you can plainly tell that I don't buy it!

—

"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Submitted by thanatokephaloides on Mon, 10/02/2017 - 8:15pm

Senator Ron Johnson (RePIG-WI)

I looked up the Wikipedia article on Senator Johnson. He's a typical RePIG asshole. Some tidbits from the linked article:

In January 2010, prior to holding elective office, Johnson opposed a Wisconsin bill that would have eliminated the time limit for future child sex abuse victims to bring lawsuits while allowing an additional three years for past victims to sue.[40] Johnson testified before the Wisconsin Senate that "punishment for the actual perpetrators should be severe," but questioned whether it would be just for employers of perpetrators to be severely financially damaged or destroyed by lawsuits.[41] He added that the bill, if enacted, might actually reduce the reporting of child sex abuse.[8][40] At the time of his testimony, Johnson was on the Finance Council of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Green Bay.[8][40] In June 2010 he told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, "I can't think of a penalty that would be too harsh for these guys"[42] and in late September 2010, Johnson indicated that the legislation would have financially crippled organizations such as the Boys & Girls Clubs and that the punishment for child sex abuse should be "severe and swift."[40] He also sought to address reports about his testimony, saying “I sought to warn legislators of those consequences in order to correct legislative language so that any bills that passed would punish the perpetrators and those that protect them, not honorable organizations that do so much good for our communities. We must rid our society of people who prey on children.”[43]

Talk out of both sides of your mouth much, Senator?

In a 2010 interview, Johnson called scientists who attribute global warming to man-made causes "crazy", saying the theory is "lunacy" and attributing climate change to causes other than human activity.[46] In February 2016, Johnson said "I've never denied climate change. The climate has always changed, and it always will".[47] While on a radio talk show August 1, 2015, on Racine, Wisconsin's WRJN-AM, Johnson said that "the climate hasn't warmed in quite a few years. That is proven scientifically."[48] Johnson is a cosponsor of the Energy Tax Prevention Act, which would block the EPA from imposing new rules on carbon emissions.[49]

Methinks a few years in southern California, in the forests, would set him aright. But who the fuck knows?

Johnson is a strong supporter of gun rights. He is cosponsor of S.570, a bill that, if passed, would prohibit the Department of Justice from tracking and cataloging the purchases of multiple rifles and shotguns.[60] In April 2013, Johnson was one of 12 Republican Senators who signed a letter threatening to filibuster any newly introduced gun control legislation.[61] That month, Johnson joined 45 other Senators in defeating the Manchin-Toomey Amendment, which would have required background checks on all commercial sales of guns.[62]

And I'd wager no change since last night's disaster in Las Vegas, either!

Fucking right-wing nut-job RePIG!

edit: fixed a couple of typos

—

"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Submitted by snoopydawg on Mon, 10/02/2017 - 10:09pm

He's not just this

@thanatokephaloides

Fucking right-wing nut-job RePIG!

He is also a fucking Catholic hypocrite!

What year was this decided? It must be from the last century because scientists have proven that our world is heating up. For the last 5 years, this planet has been setting records for the hottest temperatures and surpasses them each year and month.

That is proven scientifically."[48] Johnson is a cosponsor of the Energy Tax Prevention Act, which would block the EPA from imposing new rules on carbon emissions.

I looked up the Wikipedia article on Senator Johnson. He's a typical RePIG asshole. Some tidbits from the linked article:

In January 2010, prior to holding elective office, Johnson opposed a Wisconsin bill that would have eliminated the time limit for future child sex abuse victims to bring lawsuits while allowing an additional three years for past victims to sue.[40] Johnson testified before the Wisconsin Senate that "punishment for the actual perpetrators should be severe," but questioned whether it would be just for employers of perpetrators to be severely financially damaged or destroyed by lawsuits.[41] He added that the bill, if enacted, might actually reduce the reporting of child sex abuse.[8][40] At the time of his testimony, Johnson was on the Finance Council of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Green Bay.[8][40] In June 2010 he told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, "I can't think of a penalty that would be too harsh for these guys"[42] and in late September 2010, Johnson indicated that the legislation would have financially crippled organizations such as the Boys & Girls Clubs and that the punishment for child sex abuse should be "severe and swift."[40] He also sought to address reports about his testimony, saying “I sought to warn legislators of those consequences in order to correct legislative language so that any bills that passed would punish the perpetrators and those that protect them, not honorable organizations that do so much good for our communities. We must rid our society of people who prey on children.”[43]

Talk out of both sides of your mouth much, Senator?

In a 2010 interview, Johnson called scientists who attribute global warming to man-made causes "crazy", saying the theory is "lunacy" and attributing climate change to causes other than human activity.[46] In February 2016, Johnson said "I've never denied climate change. The climate has always changed, and it always will".[47] While on a radio talk show August 1, 2015, on Racine, Wisconsin's WRJN-AM, Johnson said that "the climate hasn't warmed in quite a few years. That is proven scientifically."[48] Johnson is a cosponsor of the Energy Tax Prevention Act, which would block the EPA from imposing new rules on carbon emissions.[49]

Methinks a few years in southern California, in the forests, would set him aright. But who the fuck knows?

Johnson is a strong supporter of gun rights. He is cosponsor of S.570, a bill that, if passed, would prohibit the Department of Justice from tracking and cataloging the purchases of multiple rifles and shotguns.[60] In April 2013, Johnson was one of 12 Republican Senators who signed a letter threatening to filibuster any newly introduced gun control legislation.[61] That month, Johnson joined 45 other Senators in defeating the Manchin-Toomey Amendment, which would have required background checks on all commercial sales of guns.[62]

And I'd wager no change since last night's disaster in Las Vegas, either!

Fucking right-wing nut-job RePIG!

edit: fixed a couple of typos

Submitted by dkmich on Mon, 10/02/2017 - 7:44pm

Begging for money

for food, housing, doctors, prescriptions, and funerals are so dignified and fitting a society residing in the richest country in the world. At least India is honest about its caste system. Beggars all over the streets of America. Even a plow horse get food, housing, and medical care.

—

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Submitted by Cassiodorus on Mon, 10/02/2017 - 8:25pm

This guy Johnson is elected, too.

Our election system promotes the stupid, and so perhaps we can say that American politics is willingly stupid. In a sane country Johnson would be a janitor.

—

The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.

Submitted by divineorder on Mon, 10/02/2017 - 8:33pm

Many of us believe in the dignity of all work, so can't rec.

@Cassiodorus

Still, the guy is surely an @sshole.

—

A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

Submitted by Cassiodorus on Mon, 10/02/2017 - 9:00pm

Too strange!

@divineorder Syllogism:

1. Being a Mafia hitman is work.

2. All work is dignified.

3. Therefore...

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The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.

Submitted by eyo on Tue, 10/03/2017 - 11:46am

Maybe divineorder was sticking up for janitors

@Cassiodorus @Cassiodorus that work is often dismissed as undignified. Good luck running a business without janitors, lol. I did commercial janitorial for one year, it is not easy. I still think about it when I mop and sweep. I love sweeping, there is an art to doing it all day and not getting tired.

I can still hear my old boss "The secret to a clean mop is a good sweep." Heh, brainwashed.

peace

Edit: here hear. A proof reader I am not.

Submitted by thanatokephaloides on Mon, 10/02/2017 - 11:30pm

in a sane country

@Cassiodorus

In a sane country Johnson would be a janitor.

In a sane country, Johnson would be an inmate at a secure psychiatric facility, along with all his fellow sociopaths.

Janitors fill a critical need, and they also are entrusted with all manner of tools which could inflict serious harm if abused. I don't think Johnson (or anyone else as voluntarily stupid as him) can be trusted with those tools.

—

"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Submitted by Cassiodorus on Tue, 10/03/2017 - 12:16am

The general point --

@thanatokephaloides is that of the general alienation of labor under capitalism -- that under capitalism our work is not our own, and that instead of choosing what we do, instead of guiding our world-producing behaviors with the imaginative faculties we have, we are compelled to work for the greater glory of idiots like Ron Johnson and of his capitalist paymasters. Work sucks under capitalism. Its most profitable manifestations are parasitic: not oriented toward producing anything anyone needs, but rather labor for the sake of extracting money from people. The sum total of alienated labor, even worse, produces the screwed-up world in which we live.

Whereas (and here I circle back to my point above) if Ron Johnson were a mere janitor his labor would be alienated in the direction of routine tasks such as mopping floors and vacuuming rugs, and we'd be safer for it. This is the best possible aspect of alienated labor -- it puts horrible people to work at being boring, though it's not good enough at it, given that it also puts other horrible people in charge of the whole system.

Thus my piqued response to that comment above about the "dignity of labor" is a visceral reaction to the low-grade life of an alienated laborer. Karl Marx wrote of prostitution in 1844: "Prostitution is only a specific expression of the general prostitution of the labourer, and since it is a relationship in which falls not the prostitute alone, but also the one who prostitutes – and the latter’s abomination is still greater – the capitalist, etc., also comes under this head."

—

The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.

Submitted by fugwb on Mon, 10/02/2017 - 8:40pm

Ron Johnson

thinks healthcare is a privilege. And his privileged ass gets the best healthcare in the country for a mere $503 a year.

OAP provides members of Congress with physicals and routine examinations, on-site X-rays and lab work, physical therapy and referrals to medical specialists from military hospitals and private medical practices. When specialists are needed, they are brought to the Capitol, often at no charge to members of Congress.[4]

Members of Congress do not pay for the individual services they receive at the OAP, nor do they submit claims through their federal employee health insurance policies. Instead, as of 2009, members pay a flat, annual fee of $503 for all the care they receive. The rest of the cost of their care is paid for by federal funding, from the U.S. Navy budget. The annual fee has not changed significantly since 1992.[4]

Submitted by snoopydawg on Mon, 10/02/2017 - 10:19pm

Thanks Barry!

@fugwb

You stuck us with this shitty health insurance plan while you gave the people who can afford to pay for doctors and operations out of their pockets this.
How nice for them to have doctors and technicians come to them instead of having to wait with the rest of us peons.
This needs to be added to gghersh's list of Barry's accomplishments. No wonder that he's getting paid almost half a million dollars to give speeches to his friends. I bet there is more laughter than speaking happening at those events.

Submitted by Timmethy2.0 on Mon, 10/02/2017 - 10:58pm

I'd blame that more on Republican assh**es than "Barry"

@snoopydawg @snoopydawg

Obamacare originally required all states to have expanded Medicare and then Republican assholes brought the case to the Republican assholes on the Supreme Court who struck down that requirement and then Republican asshole Governors opted out of expanded medicare. Sometimes I think "Barry" gets undo criticism because of the stench of other Democratic "leaders" such as the Clintons.

—

Beware the bullshit factories.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Tue, 10/03/2017 - 12:04am

This is a good point

@Timmethy2.0

However, the republicans wouldn't have asked the SC to make this decision if the democrats had passed single payer. And they could have because they passed it through reconciliation which only needed 50 votes to pass which they had. They played kabuki theater with the republicans and let them water it down and take out all the good parts of it and said they did it so that the republicans would vote for it.
Don't forget that Baucus let Liz Fowler from WellPoint, an insurance company write most of it. Then after it passed, she went back to WellPoint.
The ACA was a massive $400 billion a year give away to the insurance companies.
Barry also let them put in the parts that they wanted in the legislation.
People say that it was a step toward single payer, but has any democrat tried to make it better or move towards sp? Nope.
The rerun of the Harlem Globetrotters and the Washington Generals. Obama played the referee.

I think you meant to write Medicaid, not Medicare.

Submitted by ngant17 on Mon, 10/02/2017 - 8:43pm

The quality of life is important

No one should expect the right to have gourmet food, waited on by a butler, being served such delicacies at an opulent table with forks and spoons of pure silver. That's actually the lifestyle of those who the Rethugs are representing out of necessity for future campaign donations courtesy Citizens United. It's incredible how the Republicans will constantly distort their arguments with absurd thinking.

We should all have access to a system with the highest quality of health care equally available to everyone as it is done in most other countries of the world, with the notable exceptions of wartorn and improverished nations.

It's not a privilege to ask to have a roof over your head. A civilized and modern society can produce enough housing for its population.

"We have the right to freedom". Yes, but I would qualify freedom as Hegel stated it: "the appreciation of necessity"(later echoed by Karl Marx and Engels). Or as Janis Joplin might have paraphrased it in "Me and Bobby McGee": Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Mon, 10/02/2017 - 9:55pm

During the primary Hillary asked the crowd

"Would breaking up the big banks end racism? End sexism? End misogyny?"
The crowd shouted ""NO!"

Change her question to universal health care and see what the crowd would answer.
The problem with her question is that it's not isn't an either/or choice.
We could break up the banks, have universal health care and work to end those other problems.
I am very sure that she knew this, but as usual, she hoodwinked the crowd.

Congress doesn't care if we kill each other or not, they just don't want us to have anything that takes funds from their masters. It's not only their masters that they want to please because many of them are in the upper 1% and they too will benefit from receiving the money.
It should be a conflict of interest for them to pass legislation that will affect them too. Donald would receive $1 million if he can get tax reform passed.

Submitted by mimi on Mon, 10/02/2017 - 11:11pm

This ... takes my breath away.

This ~~"gentleman"~~ of a Senator... can he think?

Do you consider food a right? Do you consider clothing a right? Do you consider shelter a right? What we have as rights are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. We have the right to freedom.

If I have a right to life, I have a right to an amout of food, otherwise I could starve. Even prisoners of war in camps had a right to some itsy, bitsy, shitty food. Darn it. My fathers diary about his times as a pow in Russia was full of comparisons what rations of food was given in which camp to which kind of soldiers. Officers got a little more as a pow. Still when he came back he was below 47 kg (height 1,82 meter) So, this idiot of a Senator, should use his brains or just shut up his mouth.

I have also a right to shelter. In winter I could freeze to death. Apparently the kind Senator has never seen someone who just froze to death.

You know, it's insulting to the core with what kind of bullshit your representatives can get away with. They are supposedly to represent the citizens needs and rights. None of this are they doing.

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https://www.euronews.com/live

Submitted by dkmich on Tue, 10/03/2017 - 7:14am

Hey mimi

@mimi

America is the greatest country in the world. Did you forget?

—

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Submitted by TheOtherMaven on Tue, 10/03/2017 - 7:32am

Brain rot from misreading "Starship Troopers" too often

@mimi

There's a paragraph or two on the "practical" applications of the statements in the Declaration of Independence, which conservajerks glom onto and take to heart to justify depriving the not-rich of the means of existence.

One person alone vs. nature is a very different thing than one person in a society - and Heinlein knew that, but ignored it (because he had said it elsewhere and earlier).

—

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Submitted by nosleep4u on Wed, 10/04/2017 - 6:16pm

I have no problems with

I have no problems with charity. I just don't think it's a substitute for the responsibilities of society.

Providing health care is a RESPONSIBILITY.

Whether it's a "right" or not doesn't - or shouldn't - matter. Frankly, I hate that entire approach.

People like Ron Johnson are openly in favor of shirking their responsibilities. Forget Congress, people openly advocate shirking responsibilities shouldn't be in charge of a twiddly-winks game.