Democrats launch another round of blaming the most popular politician in America

A new poll came out yesterday, and guess who ranked at the top?
I'll give you a hint - it wasn't someone the Democrats are embracing.

Trump continues to trail both Bernie Sanders (51/38) and Joe Biden (51/39) by double digits in possible 2020 match ups. PPP never found Hillary Clinton up by more than 7 points on Trump in 2016. Sanders and Biden each win over 12-14% of the folks who voted for Trump last year. Also leading Trump in hypothetical contests at this point are Elizabeth Warren (45/40), Mark Cuban (42/38), and Cory Booker and Trump Twitter Target Richard Blumenthal (42/39). Trump ties Kamala Harris at 39% each and John Delaney at 38% each.

Establishment Democrats like the two candidates that AREN'T beating the most unpopular president in history.
As for the candidate with the best chance of winning, the Dems have gone into yet another round of blaming and shaming his supporters, because that worked so well in 2016.

Bernie Sanders Voters Helped Trump Win and Here's Proof

1 In 10 Sanders Primary Voters Ended Up Supporting Trump, Survey Finds

The Bernie voters who defected to Trump, explained by a political scientist

So it's no longer Jill Stein that caused Hillary to lose. It's Bernie Bros that are to blame.
Let's cut to the chase: Between 6% and 12% of people who voted for Sanders in the primaries ended up voting for Trump in November.
That sounds bad until you put it in context.

1) 8% of Democrats voted for Trump. Which means a whole bunch of Hillary supporters voted for Trump as well.

2) A lot of Sanders supporters weren't/aren't Democrats.

Of course, we know that many Sanders voters did not readily identify with the Democratic Party as of 2016, and Schaffner found that Sanders-Trump voters were even less likely to identify as Democrats. Sanders-Trump voters didn’t much approve of Obama either.
In fact, this was true well before 2016. In the VOTER Survey, we know how Sanders-Trump voters voted in 2012, based on an earlier interview in November 2012. Only 35 percent of them reported voting for Obama, compared with 95 percent of Sanders-Clinton voters.

So yeh. A significant percentage of Sanders supporters are Independents, and it's shocking (SHOCKING!) that those Independents didn't vote like a loyal Democrat.
For Shame, Bernie Bros!

3) But only real fact you need to know about why Hillary lost is from this tweet.

You can cast all the blame you want, but the reason Trump won isn't because of who voted for him.
Trump won because of who DIDN'T vote for Hillary.

Finally, let's not forget this.

A 2010 study in Public Opinion Quarterly found that in the 2008 election 25 percent of those who voted for Clinton in the Democratic primary ended up voting for Republican John McCain, rather than Barack Obama, in the general election.

In related news, here is the 5-Step process of how a Democratic centrist smears a progressive.

Then I found this article that reminds me of Blairites.

Moderates are now scrambling to rebrand and reassert the “Clintonomics” that served them so well in the 1990s and into the Obama administration, including embracing global trade and collaborating with industry.
Worried that they have nobody with equal star power to Sanders or Warren, centrists are eagerly seeking out recruits in such places as a stealthy confab held in Aspen, Colo., this month by Third Way. But in a sign of the sensitivities, organizers promised not to name the nationally known politicians in attendance lest they face harassment from the left for showing up.
The group Priorities USA, which is packed with Hillary Clinton loyalists, has also plunged into the economic message debate armed with data from its focus groups of “persuadable” Trump voters in swing states. The effort is promoted as beneficial to Democrats of all varieties — and Priorities USA has no plans to get involved in primaries — but it also cautions candidates against banking too far left. Priorities Chairman Guy Cecil, citing the focus group findings, warned Democrats it would be a mistake to stress economic “fairness” over growth.

Oh yeah. That sounds like a grassroots meeting to me.

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Not Henry Kissinger's picture

I fully embrace the claim that I and other Berners were the cause of Hillary's loss.

And I'd do it again.

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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

Amanda Matthews's picture

@Not Henry Kissinger @Not Henry Kissinger
years I didn't vote for the DINO 'Democrat'. I wanted her to lose. She's the icing on the Neo-liberal cake.

EDIT: to fix the usual typos.

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

chuckvw's picture

Some of their foreign correspondents--except the guy doing Venezuela--are pretty good.

They had a smarmy young "journalist" on last night purportedly reporting on "why the Democrats can't unite". She framed it with a recent Sanders speech calling for single payer, and described him as "Bernie Sandersing around". No shit. Her real words. The Bernie wing, according to apprentice reporter, is pulling the party apart and not heedful enough of "the center"... She'll surely make better money over at MSNBC...

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You should only listen to both sides when one side isn't totally full of shit. -Jim Jefferies

@chuckvw
The shit list:
Bernie Sanders
Julian Assange
Glenn Greenwald
Edward Snowden
Keith Olbermann
etc

Elizabeth Warren and Rachel Maddow better watch their backs.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLNFsl130_Y]

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The Aspie Corner's picture

@LaFeminista Keith Olbermann became his Lonesome Rhodes Beck satire with his current gig on GQ. It's been all Dipshit/Russia with no chalkboard. Oh, and it's all 3rd parties' fault. It's almost as though everything he said and did on Countdown before he was fired by MSNBC never happened.

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Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.

Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.

@chuckvw
I just updated the essay.
Man.

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chuckvw's picture

@gjohnsit Sheesh!

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You should only listen to both sides when one side isn't totally full of shit. -Jim Jefferies

dervish's picture

@gjohnsit @gjohnsit Who needs enemies?

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"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

detroitmechworks's picture

Because you claim, hmmm, gee, they made you lose, after you ignored them, denigrated them and called them names.

So, is this to bring them back, because I know from plenty of anecdotal evidence that people are brought around to your way of thinking through condescension, arrogance, appeals to authority, and outright name calling?

Or is this just another round of the MSM self fellating in an attempt to salve their conscience after elevating an ugly man to power on the orders of the person who they completely failed to win the election for?

Because honestly, that's all people who don't drink the DNC koolaid see now. Blah blah, you're stupid, come together you blithering idiots, can't you understand I am trying to help your racist, sexist, homophobic, muslim-hating ass?

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

@detroitmechworks

Blah blah, you're stupid, come together you blithering idiots, can't you understand I am trying to help your racist, sexist, homophobic, muslim-hating ass?
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detroitmechworks's picture

@gjohnsit it may very well be.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03-ck74dh1I]

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

@gjohnsit

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@LaFeminista
What did BBB do to get banned?

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dervish's picture

@FuturePassed No recent hidden comments or meltdowns, just normal BBB asshattery. I guess someone had enough.

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"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

@dervish

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@FuturePassed time, he comes back like dysentery.

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@detroitmechworks @detroitmechworks invariably made people harmonize in my experience. Well, on occasion. Um, oh! Never.

Thinking about the Dem strategy just leads me to: Where there's smoke, there's a smoke screen.

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Orwell: Where's the omelette?

Outsourcing Is Treason's picture

who smear Progressives make my skin crawl.

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"Please clap." -- Jeb Bush

Bollox Ref's picture

For those stuck in the duopoly bubble, the concept that independents are, well, you know... 'independent', appears not to register.

Hello!!

(Edited)

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

Never have I seen a collective more desperate in what they want to believe is the actual reality. They get damn nasty when you point it out, I spoken to more receptive toddlers in a middle of one of their major tantrums[one of my nieces can throw an absolute classic, youtube worthy].

Keep this up and they'll will lose even more states, governorships, representatives and senators and probably even their holy grail; the oval office.

If they pick Hillary again its assured. They are just nuts enough to do so, believe me.

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@LaFeminista
The caucus99percent

Wink

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thanatokephaloides's picture

@LaFeminista

...... is that our community is healthy, working, and theirs isn't.

And what are we here on c99, but that which Markos cast out of Daily Kos because we wouldn't drink the Hillary koolaid?

We have the baby, and they have the dirty bath water. And they're envious.

Its one of the reasons they get so upset with us The caucus99percent

Wink

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

@LaFeminista Apparenly they meant some kind of alternate, bizzaro world reality.

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Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.

@Dr. John Carpenter

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thanatokephaloides's picture

@LaFeminista

But rather than die, it found this wonderful lifeboat....

Creedy: DIE! DIE! Why won't you DIE?
V:Behind this mask is more than flesh and blood! Behind this mask is an idea! And ideas are bulletproof!

-- V for Vendetta (from memory)

[video:https://youtu.be/vPlT2uKruwM]

Smile

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

@thanatokephaloides They lost many of their best diarists ones that said stop and think a minute, they also lost me.

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dervish's picture

@LaFeminista critical thinking than ideological per se. They don't want any rational critique, from any direction. Markos has built himself a box full of dittoheads, but now what can he do with it?

The content there stinks, except for some of the cat pictures.

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"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

Lily O Lady's picture

@dervish

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@LaFeminista The death pangs started in 2010. By late 2014/2015 it was clear there would be no return to the practices of the past.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

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Meteor Man's picture

Oh yeah. That sounds like a grassroots meeting to me.

It's not a Grass Roots meeting unless Kamala Harris and Corey Booker show up. You know, for the little people and Big Banks!

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"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn

dervish's picture

@Meteor Man the little banks as well.

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"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

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Orwell: Where's the omelette?

snoopydawg's picture

@jim p
I enjoy reading the diaries there and save some of the most insane comments.
Remember that both the republicans and the Clinton campaign were digging for dirt to use against Trump and they hired a U.K. intelligence person to collect it. This was called the Steele dossier.
And apparently it's okay for others to collect information from Russian sources to use against Trump, but if he did try to find information to use against Hillary from Russian sources and he won the election, then this has to be investigated by every branch of the government because it's wrong. Or something. I'm not sure what the rules are when it comes to running for president.

This from the diary about this that Rachel talked about on her show.

Were the Russians running the same social media war against any Republican who rose to the top of the pack as they did against Clinton? The attacks on Clinton started during the Democratic primaries, they hacked Sanders website and were spreading distortions and lies about Clinton through multiple channels even before the general election campaign. I would bet they did the same thing in the Republican primaries targeting whichever states were up on the calendar, just like they targeted swing states in the general election. If and when this comes out any Republican still lying to cover trumps ass should be removed from congress for conspiring with our enemies. The same bag of dirty tricks Russian intelligence used against Clinton were probably used against all of Trumps GOP competitors.

I don't know why they didn't use it against Sanders because he would have beaten Trump according to the polls. But I can't follow this logic anyway.

Then there's this one.

Did the Russians coach Don into the whole birther thing?

See why I like to rubberneck over there? Smile

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There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?

Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@snoopydawg I would bet they did the same thing in the Republican primaries targeting whichever states were up on the calendar, just like they targeted swing states in the general election. If and when this comes out any Republican still lying to cover trumps ass should be removed from congress for conspiring with our enemies. The same bag of dirty tricks Russian intelligence used against Clinton were probably used against all of Trumps GOP competitors.

Um, no, that was Hillary Clinton and the DNC and their friends in the media. It was called the "Pied Piper" strategy.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

snoopydawg's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
the Pied Piper meme was just another media lie that the Russians put out to further smear Hillary's name in the press and to distract from how the Russians infiltrated the media and gave Trump over $2 billion in free media coverage.
Anything that you, and the rest of us think we know about how the election went down have been overtaken by Russian aliens who have infiltrated our brains like the alien in Men in Black 1.

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There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?

Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.

Amanda Matthews's picture

@snoopydawg @snoopydawg @snoopydawg
Out of curiosity, what the Hell did this mean...

"...they hacked Sanders website and were spreading distortions and lies about Clinton through multiple channels even before the general election campaign.

They really think that's why Sanders supporters didn't vote for the Clinton Creature? Not the threats and name calling? Not being told they "didn't need us"? Not being told or forced to go away?

If that's what they think then the average IQ on that site now registers somewhere into the negative side of the number line.

___X___________________________________
--25 -20 -15 -10 -5 0 5 10 15 20 25

EDIT: that number line thing was/is a mess x 2

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

@Amanda Matthews I seem to recall that was Her buddies who they claim got hacked and it was definitely Her-associated groups like Correct The Record spreading distortions and lies during the primaries like it was their job (oh wait...it was) not to mention the big bunch of help received from the MSM.

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Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.

snoopydawg's picture

@Dr. John Carpenter

Her-associated groups like Correct The Record spreading distortions and lies during the primaries like it was their job

because many of them have become members of DK and they had always been wonderfully welcomed into their fold because when they came in with their talking points, (not to be confused with our right wing talking points that we used to shed light on Herheinous' policies).

Sorry guys, what ever rational you can think of to discredit their comments are never going to fly because Herheinous walks on water without getting her feet wet.

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There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?

Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.

snoopydawg's picture

@Amanda Matthews
DNC servers and they were able to learn every thing that the Clinton campaign was going to throw at his supporters and why they would rue the day that they didn't vote for her.
Or something. Like I said, I can't quite follow their logic. Then again, since it's batshit crazy, I don't want to.

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There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?

Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Amanda Matthews Yes, that's the tale they're spreading. Supposedly the op was run out of Macedonia, and Macedonian hackers hijacked some Sanders websites and started spreading mean stories about Hillary.

That's why I'm Can't Stop the Macedonian Signal. Because, obviously, I'm a horrible Macedonian spreading lies about Hillary.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Amanda Matthews's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

Even more so than Democrats feeling entitled to votes of certain demographics (Her whole run was one of entitlement, after all), the bottom line is, Her didn't bring in the votes. Even in 2012 when enthusiasm about Obama was lower and the Republicans had a much less divisive ticket, he still brought people into the polls. Her never did.

I know this is anecdotal but I knew exactly one Her supporter (and my gut tells me it was more of an anti-Sanders and anti-Trump thing than actually being pro-Her) and everyone else I know who told me they voted for Her was essentially scared or shamed into it. I've been voting since the early 90s and I've never seen the polls that empty. I knew she was toast that day.

So they can continue to blame BernieBros, but what is it getting them? Continue to say progressives are being divisive because we just won't shut up and get in line. Expect to lose by an even bigger margin when you try to force Her (or a demographically acceptable clone) on us again. Considering it's still CW for Democrats that Nader cost Gore the election in 2000, I'm not shocked we're seeing many of the same plays again.

PS: the link to the source for the quote about the PUMAs who voted McCain goes back to the sad sack Newsweek "Here's the Proof BernieBros elected Trump" article. Admittedly, I wouldn't have glanced at that one otherwise. Oy, it made my head hurt.

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Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.

@Dr. John Carpenter

everyone else I know who told me they voted for Her was essentially scared or shamed into it

Friends, family, coworkers, acquaintances, many of whom are lifelong Dems - I never encountered one single real-life person who liked Hillary. Not one.

Certainly many of them voted for her but only because they saw her as the lesser evil (or in the primary because they thought she was inevitable). I obviously saw plenty of them online but I never met one single person in real life who voted for Hillary because they like her.

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@Dopeman

Certainly many of them voted for her but only because they saw her as the lesser evil (or in the primary because they thought she was inevitable). I obviously saw plenty of them online but I never met one single person in real life who voted for Hillary because they like her.

The primaries thing always made me see red. It was the whole self fulfilling prophecy that I just couldn't get otherwise rational people to see their way out of. Of course Her was going to win if everyone voted for Her because they assumed Her was going to win! What stupid logic!

The online thing, I'm still skeptical. There were some people who I am relatively certain are real people who were on Team Hillary. Bloggers, commentators, posters at TOP, etc. But there was a lot of Correct the Record bankrolled pro-Hillary chatter invading comments and pretty much anywhere someone could create sockpuppet accounts and post something pro-Her. Outside of places like TOP and the bloggsphere, I question the authenticity of any enthusiasm I saw for Her.

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Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.

@Dopeman
None of the people I know liked Hillary. Not a one of them like her. But all of them voted for her.

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native

Lily O Lady's picture

@Dr. John Carpenter

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

ggersh's picture

the D's picked the only one that could lose
to tinyhands, need anything be said?

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I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish

"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"

Heard from Margaret Kimberley

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@ggersh "Picked" in, shall we say, a variety of interesting ways, which went far afield from simply not getting enough votes. Probably FSC wouldn't have advanced to the general in an honestly run election, but, of course, one can never be sure.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal She didn't make it in 2008. As much as I've read about that primary, I've never seen anything more than sour grapes PUMA griping. I've never seen any credible accusations of fraud. And Her lost what was supposed to be her original coronation. It always occurred to me TPTB were determined not to see that happen again and that's how the 2016 primaries happened.

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Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Dr. John Carpenter Well, maybe she wasn't so close to the Bushes then.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Dr. John Carpenter I'm sure they could help her figure out a way that a loss like 2008 could never happen again.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

If I had known how powerful I was, I would have taken Obama out in 2012. I voted Green in Michigan in 2016, and I'm damn proud of it.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

featheredsprite's picture

[Trotsky? I'm not sure.]

We had a revolutionary moment, when the populace would vote against the Establishment.

The Dems suppressed the left-of-establishment vote, so the population had to vote for the right-of-establishment candidate.

ANYTHING but the same old stuff.

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Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.

Hillbilly Dem's picture

@featheredsprite Once in a while, my old boss used to bark at me "Do something! Even if it's wrong. Just do something!"

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"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey

snoopydawg's picture

Sanders-Trump voters didn’t much approve of Obama either.

This isn't the word I would use for how I feel about this Empty Suited Sociopath.

There is a lot in the last article you linked to, it's hard not to know where to begin

Union leader RoseAnn Demoro has equally strong views about what will fail Democrats: Ryan’s corporate-friendly approach, which she complains the party has clung to since Bill Clinton entered the White House. “In any other place they would have fired the entire group of people and started from a different narrative after the last election,” said the executive director of National Nurses United. “Not the Democrats. They have lost a thousand seats in the last decade and they are still staying the course.”

As I have stated before, I think this was done intentionally. How else can you explain how after they lost so many seats in 2010, they didn't change their platform.
Voters knew that they had both houses of congress and the presidency and that Obama could have passed any of the legislation he ran on during his campaign, but he spent so much time on the ACA only and then the republicans won back the house.
This was one reason why I stayed home in 2010 and I why I didn't vote for Obama in 2012.

California Sen. Kamala Harris is among those caught in the crossfire. Activists on the left created a vivid meme that attacked her as a “centrist corn cob” — an insult progressives hurl at politicians they accuse of twisting themselves into positions palatable to the center. They cited her decision while California attorney general not to prosecute billionaire Steven T. Mnuchin, now Trump’s Treasury secretary, for misdeeds state investigators uncovered at the California bank Mnuchin ran. Their meme went viral after Center for American Progress President Neera Tanden, a longtime advisor to Hillary Clinton, called on Sanders to tell his supporters to knock it off.

She's Obama with boobs. She had a slam dunk case against Mnuchin for his foreclosing on thousands of Californians, including an older woman who owed his company $.27 and Harris thought that was okay business practices? Oh hell no!

“Sandersism is the only cause on offer for Democrats right now,” Cowan said. “It didn’t win in the primary. It hasn’t been winning since the primary. It’s incumbent on Democrats to create and offer a true alternative to this.”

The reason Sandersism didn't win in the primary was because It Was Stolen From Him!
And still the democrats would rather have Trump win again than let a Bernie type candidate win and drag the party to the left.

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There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?

Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.

Meteor Man's picture

@snoopydawg
So would you be if someone compared you to a Hillary Wannabe. Exactly who is picking on corn cobs? What did corn cobs ever do to them? Stop picking on corn cobs!

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"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn

snoopydawg's picture

@Meteor Man
I used to wonder how so many intelligent people could pretzel-lize their minds in such a way to be able to defend Obama's policies when they were the same ones that they were against when Bush the lesser did them.
Using drones to flatten countries that had nothing to do with the 9'11 attacks and kill countless civilians who were later to be identified as enemy combatants no matter the age or sex because they saved our troop's lives. We no longer had to put their lives in danger. Obama could meet with his other sociopaths on Terror Tuesday and decide which person deserved to die that week.
He was even able to get away with killing an American without Due Process because he was speaking in a Mosque, which was his right to do under our Constitution.
After we killed him, we then killed his son for some reason (he should have picked a better father) and then to round out the family's misery, Trump killed the daughter during his first Yemen raid.

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There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?

Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.

Shahryar's picture

the numbers are from the next day after the election, I believe, and many millions more were counted. Hillary Clinton didn't win the popular vote by as much as Obama did but it wasn't quite the collapse that's suggested.

Obama's first election was when he pretended to be a "progressive". Note the dropoff between 2008 and 2012. Obama beat McCain by 10 million votes, Romney by 5 million. Hills "beat" Trump by 3 million. Obama's vote total in 2012 was 65,916,000. Hillary's in 2016 was 65,845,000.

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@Shahryar hi there.
Sorry about that Clinton win. Oops! Wrong planet. I voted for Stein too, used to dream what her cabinet would look like. The indivisible purple pussy caps were on the front page of our local rag recently. I never noticed the glass breaking sound in this before ... huh.

---
Arabnews.com Opinion: Qatar needs to come clean on $1m donation to Clintons

One week before the $1 million donation was confirmed on Nov. 4, 2016, days prior to the election, then-President Barack Obama was taking steps to solidify ties with Qatar.
His administration took the unusual step of issuing a public statement praising Doha’s role in the fight against Daesh, and its “positive role” in denying extremists funds. Maybe he hoped to take the edge off longstanding concerns about Qatar’s ties to Hillary, who everyone expected to win the election.
...
The Clintons believed Hillary would win the election, so why waste any time cleaning up the Qatari donation mess? As president, she could just brush it under the carpet. Trump’s victory was a shock to the Clintons, the mainstream news media, Al-Jazeera and Qatar’s royal family.
...
The battle between Trump and the media continues to dominate the American debate. But one year on, it might be important to look back at Qatar’s ties to Daesh, its high-priced lobbying efforts to influence the Obama administration, and whether the $1 million donation was just a gesture or a direct effort to buy Hillary’s silence.

Most Californians have no problem at all voting for pure evil. Silence about the head-chopping terrorists, and Bill got $25 million for his birthday from "those people." Imagine if she were the precedent. ~shudder~ Same same.

oligarchy sucks

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dervish's picture

@eyo I have some good things to say about them, but that's one issue wherein they really dropped the ball. Leave it to the Empty Suit to lie through his teeth about it.

Qatar bribes HRC with $1 million, why am I not surprised. When can we expect the indictments?

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"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

@dervish,
http://presstv.com/Detail/2017/08/25/532874/Syria-US-Daesh-heliborne

The US has airlifted a number of Daesh Takfiri terrorists near the eastern Syrian city of Dayr al-Zawr, where Syrian troops are closing in on the Takfiri terrorists, the so-called Syrian Observatory for Human Rights says.

The London-based group said two US helicopters conducted the operation in Beqres, a suburban area east of Dayr al-Zawr on Thursday morning, taking four Daesh members and a civilian from a house used as an arms depot.

According to the report, the five people transferred during the operation included a foreign bomb expert, three Egyptian Daesh members and a civilian.

Can't spell civilian without C-I-A.

How many U turns make a circle?
US, Saudis urge Syria opposition to accept Assad’s political role

In a major policy U-turn, US and Saudi diplomats have reportedly been urging the armed Syrian opposition to come to terms with President Bashar al-Assad’s role in Syria’s future as Damascus’ army irreversibly holds the upper hand on the battlefield against militant groups.

In a Thursday article, the Associated Press pointed to the major shift in the strategies of Western and regional supporters of Syrian opposition groups and militants with regard to the developments in Syria.

good luck

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Shahryar Problem is, once I've caught somebody cheating, I don't play cards with them anymore.

I mean, I'm not sure how many of those votes were real. And I can't be.

Maybe I can't be sure ever, but particularly once you've caught a politician's campaign bribing an official to purge over 100,000 people off the voting rolls, well...not really sure I'd put it past them to flip votes as well.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

mimi's picture

@Shahryar
from being homeless and no time to read all that stuff, including the charts, they get it, even without reading the many charts and wise words.

Took my son eight month to "see through" Obama in 2008/9, he never liked Hillary Clinton. I just watched silently, being very sad about the real impact it had.

Sometimes I wondered how I would have voted, if I were allowed to vote. I think, after 2008 I wouldn't have voted at all. And I would really like to have a system that takes into account all people who refuse to vote. But I have given up on the US ever being able to change their electoral college and voting system.

My son didn't vote ever again. He canvassed for Bernie in HI a bit. I canvassed for Bernie in MD a bit. Then I remember Bernie's facial expression, when he sat at the Democratic Convention. To me that said it all. He was threatened and silenced and I believe betrayed, he didn't like it one bit. It's a shame he had to do what he had to do, accept to run with the Democrats as an Independent.

Chris Hedges clearly criticized him for it. Unfortunately, as harsh as Hedge's commentary was, he was right as to the consequences this had.

Some things have to change. And just my two cents. Don't believe that foreigners in the EU will ever get the whole shebang. I don't think that it is possible to make it cross over to other continents and cultures. At least not to all the little people over there.

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I voted for Jill Stein in Pennsylvania. No regrets.

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Hillbilly Dem's picture

@psychodrew

I voted for Jill here in West "by God" Virginia. Not the same impact as a PA vote, but I felt damn good about it. As Gene Hackman's character said in Hoosiers.."I apologize for nothing."

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"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey

thanatokephaloides's picture

@psychodrew

I voted Stein, too. In Colorado.

Wink

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

actually, the collapse in total Democratic votes isn't (just) HRC's fault. As gjohnsit says, the bleeding began in 2009, and the blame can be placed on the entire corruptocrat cabal.

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On to Biden since 1973

dervish's picture

@doh1304 bought and co-opted by some evil people for their own purposes. It like when a trusted natural product gets bought up by a big conglomerate, and then they keep the name, but degrade the product. Once everyone realizes that it's now fake, the reputation is shot forever.

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"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

Lily O Lady's picture

@dervish

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Lily O Lady Lemon-scented!

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Lily O Lady's picture

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Lily O Lady Nope, sorry. Debbie Wasserman-Schultz walked in.

We'll have to take this back to formula.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@doh1304 Two sides of the same wooden nickle.

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Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

is that instead of interpreting the data as: those damned left-wingers abandoned us for Trump
they could interpret it as: Bernie had appeal to both right and left, and stole some of Trump's base

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
We have a winner

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Deploy Clinton's army of sound cannons on them why not? Don't just talk about resistance, do something you already know works perfectly. STFU deplorable. Where are the blackouts and sign coverings MSM complicity broadcast during that farce of a nomination? Mr. Popular Outreach Director needs to answer for all that shitty behavior if you ask me, before he attempts to lead anybody anywhere. Please proceed.

There is no reverse in the D Clown Car, that gear got broken a long time ago. It's all "please proceed" from here on I guess. Don't say lemmings.

oligarchy sucks
good luck

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@eyo Well, I agree. Of course Bernie is, at this point, compromised. That doesn't make what the Dems are doing any less stupid, but, as you pointed out, it's less about stupidity than corruption. They aren't actually playing the game they say they are.

Now, the stupid that remains to be commented upon is that they think they can take their shitty corruption and somehow justify it as reasonable political tactics for a party that actually wants to win a majority of seats and advance an agenda different from the party currently in power.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Meteor Man's picture

No, not anyone here. In These Times just caught up with c99%:

While some media commentators want to shield Democrats from criticism, holding politicians’ feet to the fire is a longtime successful tradition on the U.S. Left

With great details:

For instance, while Harris says all the right things about criminal justice and mass incarceration now, she frequently worked against reform in California. She repeatedly opposed meaningful reform of the state's uniquely harsh three-strikes policy, putting her to the right of her Republican opponent in 2010, and championed a policy that sent parents to jail for truant kids.

She also resisted efforts to make her office investigate police killings, to the frustration of many Californians of color. Her critics in the state saw her as a cautious, ambitious politician who stood on the sidelines on criminal justice reform.

It's also telling what Harris was and wasn't zealous about prosecuting. Harris repeatedly worked to keep an innocent man in jail who had already served more than a decade for a crime he didn't commit. She defended a prosecuting attorney who slipped a falsified confession into an interrogation transcript and later went after Backpage—an online classified website used by sex workers—during an election year, putting them back in harm's way, looking for work on the streets.

And while she now touts her toughness on bankers, her Mortgage Strike Force prosecuted a troublingly small number of cases—less than some county district attorneys in other states.

'nuff said:

http://inthesetimes.com/article/20451/kamala-harris-left-democrats-debate

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"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Meteor Man Agree with everything except the idea that holding feet to the fire is successful. It's only successful if they think they need to fear us.

Doesn't mean we should stop doing it, though. Truth or bust.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

mimi's picture

@Meteor Man
another part of it was not known to me and I am glad to have learned that. MLK, integrity and courage.

Take Dr. Martin Luther King. Rather than meekly stand by and instruct his followers to give Democratic leaders the benefit of the doubt, King risked his reputation to excoriate the U.S. government’s—and, by extension, President Lyndon Johnson’s—prosecution of the Vietnam War.

In his famous “Beyond Vietnam” speech in 1967, King called the U.S. government “the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today.” He accused U.S. soldiers of being forced to be “on the side of the wealthy, and the secure, while we create a hell for the poor.” (me: still true to this day)

At the time, some questioned his boldness. Other civil rights leaders immediately distanced themselves from King, including the NAACP, whose board of directors unanimously voted that mixing civil rights and the antiwar movement was a “serious tactical mistake.” The Pittsburgh Courier, a black paper, accused him of “tragically misleading” African Americans.( me: of course those tactical mistakes ... they are more important than integrity, WTF)

The turn against King was most pronounced among the white community, the mainstream media and the political establishment. The New York Times and Washington Post both ran editorials harshly criticizing King, with the Times claiming that “to divert the energies of the civil rights movement to the Vietnam issue is both wasteful and self-defeating”—in other words, urging him to stop being critical and let the administration do its job.

President Johnson, once King’s ally, echoed this sentiment, appalled that King would criticize him instead of being grateful. “What is that goddamned nigger preacher doing to me?” he erupted upon hearing the speech. “We gave him the Civil Rights Act of 1964, we gave him the Voting Rights Act of 1965, we gave him the War on Poverty. What more does he want?” It marked the end of King’s relationship with the White House.

Good to know about that. Sometimes you have to end relationships.

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crossover appeal with Libertarian types. This is something I not only read about while it was happening, but experienced first hand with a close friend of mine.

The guy (to this day) has his garage/mancave plastered in Ron Paul banners. Once Rand Paul was out he supported Bernie. I'll never forget the opinion of Bernie he shared with me:

"I'm not down with all the socialist shit, but Bernie is the most honest politician I've seen on the national stage since Ron Paul."

I'm no Ron Paul fan, but that's quite a compliment from a guy who considers Ron Paul a god.

He didn't like Trump or any of the establishment Republicans but he hates Hillary with the heat of 1,000 suns. On election day he held his nose for Trump to stop Hillary.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Dopeman That's actually a very American reaction.

We are quite gullible, generally speaking (though less so than pre-2010), but most of us, once we perceive a cheat or a fake, really despise them.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@Dopeman I've told this story before, but my life long Republican, Limbaugh/O'Riely/Fox News father volunteered he would have voted for Bernie for the same reasons as your libertarian friend. You couldn't have put a gun to his head and forced him to vote for a Clinton though.

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Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.

mimi's picture

@Dr. John Carpenter
why Hillary Clinton was so disliked by so many. (of course I see that as an outsider, foreigner).

Trying to listen honestly and digging in my memories, I think it was because I never could find a reason why she was so fiercely interested to gain political power and there is no weaseling around the fact that she used her marriage to Bill Clinton as a springboard. That was already clear very early on in her "wife of the governor Bill Clinton" - time. It's a very off-setting ambition, not out of a political conviction, but out of pure power-grabbing intention. I remember some old footage way back in which she actually came close to (real, not faux) tears out of pure exhaustion. I think she knew how she was disliked and couldn't understand it. I hope her daughter doesn't walk into the same trap and direction.

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@mimi

I think it was because I never could find a reason why she was so fiercely interested to gain political power and there is no weaseling around the fact that she used her marriage to Bill Clinton as a springboard.

For someone who is one of the most famous politicians in the world, she has very little to show for it, aside from gains in personal wealth and power. She doesn't have a track record of helping others or any vision to make the world a better place. I've followed the Clintons since they first popped on the national scene and I couldn't tell you what Hillary stands for, aside from some vague identity politics. No one, including Hillary, has ever given an answer to the question of why she should be president. It's just taken as a given, as if the question is ludicrous.

I think the other side is, she's a phony and can't hide it. Bill is also a phony, but the guy is a master at looking like he gives a damn about whatever while actively working against the same thing. W. Bush wasn't bad at it either. It's the whole stupid "who would you rather have a beer with?" nonsense. Hillary can't even pretend to relate and when she tries, it comes off as alien and insincere.

I know you didn't necessarily ask me personally, but that's what I think the issue is. TLDR: she has no vision and she has no charm to cover up for that lack of vision.

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Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.

mimi's picture

@Dr. John Carpenter
... someone said somewhere. So, there is that. Smile

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@mimi She lies all the time and is no damned good at it.

We hate a fake.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Dr. John Carpenter A gun to the head is probably what it would take for me.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

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