Pants on Fire
FTR: I wrote this well before Charlottesville. Despite Nazi references, it has nothing to do with Charlottesville.
"The Big Lie" is most often attributed to Adolph Hitler's evil genius friend and Reich Minister of Propaganda from 1933 to 1945, Paul Joseph Goebbels. However, Mein Kampf described and named it first, attributing it to Jews. (Regardless of who may have first described or named the technique, I'd bet its use dates to the invention of hominid communication.) In any case, Goebbels only paraphrased Mein Kampf as to the Big Lie, albeit scapegoating a different ethnicity:
The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.
Although he would never admit it, George W. Bush, knew how to work the Big Lie stragedy (sic). And, why not? Master propagandist Lee Atwater worked for both Reagan-Bush and Bush-Quayle. Karl Rove, a "natural" mentored by Atwater, worked for both Bush-Quayle and Bush 43-Cheney. Anyway, with (much too) much help from media, Bush the Lesser once told us that we had to invade Iraq because Iraq had been involved in both the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center and in 911. All the rest of the world knew better. Yet, Bush said it with a straight face, unless you count his perennial smirk.
Just to make certain that Americans knew the "need" to invade Iraq was not limited to anything so base as revenge, Bush also lied that Saddam Hussein had WMD that was likely destined for us. Um, the same Saddam Hussein who humbly esked if the US would mind if Iraq invaded Kuwait over a border dispute? The one who cowered in a hole for about nine months after the US gave advance notice that it would invade his country? That guy would have launched an offensive against the USA, rather than be pampered in his palace? Really? (Back then, we adorably pretended that we were bombing the Middle East only in retaliation for 911 and in oxymoronic pre-emptive "defensive" strikes. Now, we don't bother giving Americans excuses.)
Anyway....Bush 43 ungrammatically shared a thought about politicians and propaganda that was not very different from that described by Hitler and Goebbels, except that Bush claimed he was spreading truth:
In my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda.
(President George W. Bush, in an interview with the Jerusalem Post, Washington, D.C., May 12, 2008) And, in 2014, just to frost that cake (and me) Congress lifted a 60-year old prohibition against the U.S. government's "propagandizing" US citizens, cutely as an amendment to the national defense budget. (Pop quiz: Would government require legislative authority to tell its citizens the truth, especially if so doing enhanced national defense?)
The Big Lie is not the only thing that our politicians seem to have borrowed. The following appeared in the psychological profile of Hitler prepared by the U.S. Office of Strategic Services:
His primary rules were: never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it.
Hmm. Does that sound like what Republicans do to Democrats and vice versa? Or what neoliberalconsTM do to those left of them? And what all of them do in so many contexts? How about how Hillary victimsplained her 2016 election loss? Or how the Obama administration and Congress .govsplained it? And so on.
FWIW, Hitler did not originate the faultless politician strategy, either. Some rulers, ancient and relatively modern, even claimed to be gods. And here's a Big Truth, from me: What wikipedia describes about the Big Lie propaganda, politicians who take no responsibility, etc. is still very much with us.
For sifting through whatever politicians and media try to sell you, I offer these: Question everything; assume nothing; "follow the money;" and ask yourself, "cui bono?" And, even after all that, at least half their lies would get past an Einstein. But the lies they try to sell us are not the half of it. Harder than falsehood to detect is the dishonesty of keeping very secret things they should disclose.
Maybe someone will now and again out the truth, as did Wyden and Snowden with the NSA and de facto, repeal of the Fourth Amendment without the consent of the governed (who happen to foot the bills). Or maybe someone will publish pics from the next Abu Ghraib or Bagram. Should we happen to find out, they'll likely mock us dismissively with the weaponized term, "conspiracy" theory.
Oh, and ignore the claims that the secrecy, deceit and "least untruthful" bs is all for our own good, to protect us. Our enemies, real and alleged, know more than we American plebes ever will because they have their own intelligence gathering and we don't. For example, who knew years before you heard of Snowden not to phone home or email? Well, among others, erstwhile Public Enemy #1 (literally), Osama Ben Laden, who used only couriers, much like a Caesar or a Spartan king. I bet Middle Easterners also knew about Abu Ghraib before you did, too, since it was in their midst. No, dear reader, their secrecy is far more about protecting them from embarrassment, and them from us, than it is about their protecting us.
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Comments
As said before...
At this point in time, the major role of government is to lie about the lies of yesterday, lie about today, and prepare notes for the lies to be given out tomorrow regarding the lies of today.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
Thanks, Bollox Ref.
You have such a marvelous way with words, history, etc.
Thanks!
Glad to be of service.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
"Their Secrecy
is far more about protecting them from embarrassment, and them from us, than it is about their protecting us."
pretty much my guiding principle.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
Glad I echoed it!
yes, i've been saying this for several years as well.
Most "state secrets" are kept in order to protected the governors from the governed, not to protect the governed from any external threat.
PS
Fun fact: Hitler spelled his name "Adolf", not "Adolph". In Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, the filmmakers get it wrong when Hitler signs old man Jones's grail notebook. (FWIW, I just checked wikipedia, which asserts that he was christened "Adolphus", but they mention no record of him ever using that full latinate name.)
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
Good to know!
Think I will leave it spelled in the essay the way that Hitler did not prefer it, though, even if the hide-encased turd can't see it from the Ninth Circle.
Evildoers go crazy when you get their name wrong
[video:https://youtu.be/ftgAG3Vnif8]
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
LOL. I think the driving Hitler crazy ship sailed, though.
Came out of the wilderness just to say thanks for
Queen and Eurythmics songs. Love Annie Lennox, miss Freddie terribly -- so gifted. Such overwhelmingly bad news this past summer I tried to retreat from it all. It's too much and music is the only way (for me anyway) to get through it. I been loading up my Ipod, yes, I still a 2nd generation Ipod, and tuning out! I don't like giving the $$ to Apple but WTF. At work, at the gym, at home I listen to music. Light fires in the firepit in the driveway on weekends, listen to tunes and look at what stars I can see with City light pollution and hope to DOG somehow in my lifetime we pull out of this toilet bowl swirl.
O.k. When is the next meeting for the revolution?
-FuturePassed on Sunday, November 25, 2018 10:22 p.m.
I hope we do, too.
Glad the songs inspired you to post.
Off Topic, your screen name brought to mind a true story told me by someone who worked in Manhattan's welfare department which, I think, was officially called Department of Social Services:
Before Clinton "reformed" welfare, someone somewhere thought giving welfare recipients financial incentives to go to work would be a good thing. Otherwise, the minute they got paycheck #1 that exceeded the amount of their welfare check, they'd get cut off from all benefits, which was both harsh and an incentive not to get a job. So they created such a program, naming it the Work Incentive Program, the acronym of which was WIP.
After they printed up who knows what all, trained welfare staff, etc., they realized at some point that naming a program designed for welfare recipients WIP probably was not the best idea. So, they re-named it and replaced all the original materials.
After I heard that story, I never named anything without first considering what the acronym would be.
Great Story Henry!
O.k. When is the next meeting for the revolution?
-FuturePassed on Sunday, November 25, 2018 10:22 p.m.
First, I live for snark.
Second, it's not true that you have only rants and snark to offer. For example, you've offered me encouragement to keep posting.
If you don't want to come around simply because you don't want to come around, though, that's up to you, of course.
P.S. Your screen name also reminded me of the one thing Sarah Palin ever said that I found funny: http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/140641-wtf-says-palin-o...
Just Died Laughing
WTF! See you in the next life.
"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn
If you have to go, laughing is one of the best ways, I think.
But, we don't want you to go. Is there anything I can do to help revive you?
WTF and BO
You'd think anyone with the initials BO would be more tuned into WTF.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I KNOW, right? And if not him, all the people who got
paid big bucks from taxpayers to review the SOTU.
His initials are BHO, but BO led to Big O for his fans and Big 0 (zero) for his critics.
Classic!
O.k. When is the next meeting for the revolution?
-FuturePassed on Sunday, November 25, 2018 10:22 p.m.
I hope you do as well.
We'll leave the light on for you.![](https://forum.beziehungsdoktor.de/styles/beziehungsdoktor/xenforo/smilies/kommt_alle_her.gif)
Yep. This board has any number of worthwhile posters, but Shikspak is one of this board's phenoms. I love all the daily open threads, too, each special in its own way. And lookout pulls together the news of the week on the weekend.
One day soon mark my words,
the entire English language will be consumed by acronyms. Obliterated. Like kudzu devouring a forest.
WTF? IDK and YVMD but IMHO USG, NASA, CIA & MSNBC are in on the plot.
native
ROFLMAOPIMP!
FTR, and only BTW, I once asked people what they'd name a new political party. Someone offered Great American Party, which I loved, except for the acronym.
I'm not sure if the Big Lie is the big problem anymore
Isn't it more that they're slipping lies into every side of every discussion so that there can be no truth anymore?
The CNN narrative of Charlottesville is clearly agenda driven bullshit. Something's happening that we're not seeing. But you will never hear a dispassionate discussion of what we know, what we don't, and what just feels off. Someone might wonder, rightly, where all these Nazis suddenly came from, and how antifa got so big, and what the government was trying to do by essentially engineering a riot. But the only people allowed to say those things in public have been preselected for their known tendencies to bring up the Elders of Zion in the next sentence. And that's not an accident either. Because it means you can't trust anyone, so you might as well give up.
Can't wait to see how super awesome the lives of poor people instantly become the day after a Confederate statue comes down. Yeah, these are the real issues.
Oh, they still use the Big Lie, all right. The essay
refers to Congress and the President claiming Russia "hacked the election" and destroyed the democracy for which our troops gave their lives, etc. This bs was later dialed back to "meddling," then ratcheted back up as far as "interfering," but initial terminology and hyperbole matters, as politicians probably know:
http://www.spring.org.uk/2009/09/why-you-cant-help-believing-everything-...
See, my view differs on this
I know my opinion is not shared on this site. But I think the Russian scandal is not an example of the Big Lie, but of the Infinite Little Lies.
I think Trump is super corrupt, he's been in bed with Russian mobsters up to his ass for years, and his team did break eighteen laws til Tuesday and the Russians are definitely trying to fuck with us.
I also think Team Hillary, being inbred Washington insiders and Her being not unfamiliar with shady Russians Herself, seized on these early rumors and warning signs to concoct the tale of "17 agencies" and a DNC "hack," which now looks very liked to be a leak instead.
What's great about this strategy is that it paralyzes all inquiries through gaslighting. Think the DNC is up to no good? "LOL neo Nazi racist sexist Trumpster but her emails LOL." Think something bad did happen with respect to Russia? "LOL Sharia Blue Hillbot David Brock Podesta chuck LOL!"
You have to pick a side, one side only, and declare your loyalty, or everyone goes after you.
I have zero problems with differing opinions as long as the
discussion focuses on issues. In fact, everyone agreeing on everything could be boring. However, we may not be communicating well. When I say something like "Russia hacked our election and destroyed our democracy" is a Big Lie, I am not saying that Russia did nothing. I am not saying that Russia did something, either. For my purposes in an essay like this, it is totally irrelevant who was behind it. What is relevant is whether my government lied to me. Therefore I am saying only that there is a huge difference between "hacking an election," and put out information about one of the candidates, at least some of which is truthful.
Regardless who was responsible for putting out the DNC and Podesta emails that was truthful data about Hillary's campaign. Pizzagate was not truthful, no matter who was behind it. But even putting out untruthful info is still not hacking and election or killing our democracy, even assuming we ever had a democracy. (We never did: we are, and always have been, a republic with varying degrees of suffrage--and a bought and sold one at that.)
Most people, Luddite or not, recognize "hacking" as a term for messing with a computer in a way you should not. An election involves voting, not yapping about a candidate. Many people in this country vote by a machine that involves software. Hence, the specific term "hacking an election" implies hacking voting machines to flip the result from Hillary to Trump. That's why I referred to other terms, like "meddling in an election" whose connotation is much closer to the truth than hacking and election, but still false. I wrote an essay on this, but without including the pizzagate story or other falsehoods. IOW, my essay was only about the DNC and Podesta emails. https://caucus99percent.com/content/big-lie-russia-interfered-us-preside...
Sounds like a complaint about someone other than I. In fact, it sounds like another board. Arguing with people who argue that way is a total waste of time. They are either not serious people and/or they are dishonest. I wouldn't bother, but that's me.
No, I'm talking about whether it qualifies as a Big Lie
Or maybe it's a Big Lie Plus.
Big Lie is the name of a very specific tactic, yes? It's not about lying. It's about telling a lie so completely outrageous no one who knows the truth can believe you said it, so no one even knows how to answer it, and at first no one expects you to be believed because it's so ridiculous. Then you repeat it constantly nonstop until it becomes accepted truth.
I think this strategy was tried with the Russian stuff.
But I don't think the Big Lie is the only or worst propaganda tactic that's happening now. I think spreading lies into every side of the story is much worse, because now most people don't know what to believe.
The gaslighting I quoted isn't about what someone said to me on a message board. It's what they're doing to the whole country. Forcing people to pick from one of two official sides though both sides are just telling different lies.
Got it. Thanks. It feels like a curtain of lies.
Trump gets elected
And there's an immediate effort to remove him from office; belligerence abroad increases; and the atmosphere of civil war gets promoted in the US.
If Hillary had won, what exactly would be different? So, who benefits from that 'choice' we had in 2016?
Orwell: Where's the omelette?
The wealthy and the incumbents. Same people who have
benefited most since the Koch brothers and a bunch of corporations godfathered the Democratic Leadership Council in the 1980s. The people who hang with the Bohemian Grove crowd and the Bilderburg Group.
In Big Bang Theory, genius Sheldon Cooper reads brilliant stuff from a notebook he kept as a child. Penny, the affable woman next door, like me, understood not a word. When he finishes reading, she says, "I'm just a blonde monkey to you, aren't I?"
Compared to the Bilderburg crowd, we're all just blonde monkeys.
HaHa!
Orwell: Where's the omelette?
Meanwhile, one monkey said to another,
"I'm only a human to you, aren't I?
How It Works
The Big Lie is the strategy. It's good to have goals, but they have to be achievable. Strategy requires tactics to achieve the goal.
There are others, but the most notorious "Big Lie" in America may be Liberal Media! The narrative of "the liberal media" has been driven by the tactic of endless repetition by the Right Wing Noise Machine.
A new tactic, which is behind the new big lie of "The Alt Left" is The Rescue Game, which was described at The Archdruid Report (gone now) which I summarized here:
This is how The Rescue Game works:
https://caucus99percent.com/content/rescue-game
"Bernie Bros" are The Persecutors, the New Dems are coming to the rescue, protecting America from The Alt Left with their new and improved Centrism.
"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn
"The Big Lie" is only the name of the strategy, not the
strategy itself. The strategy, tactic or technique is the one described in the quote from Goebbels that is in the essay, which I will paraphrase as follows: Tell a big lie, not a small one, and keep repeating it.
Then there are many, many specific examples of Big Lie, such as "Only white males supported Bernie during the 2015-16 primary season." or "Comey made Hillary lose the election." Or "We have to invade Iraq because Saddam Hussein was involved with the 1993 and 2001 attacks on the Twin Towers" and has WMD he is likely to use to attack us again."
Sorry if the essay did not make that clear.
Clarification Noted
http://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=E9CVWf31G8q4jwP7h4-gCA&q=strat...
And tactic:
http://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=LdCVWbH1EISajwPcx5voDg&q=tacti...
"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn
Thanks, Meteor Man.
I'm not sure what your post is intended to imply, but thanks.
I think "Liberal Media" qualifies
Not sure Alt Left is. It's a Big Lie when used by Joy Reid to label the Bernie Bros. Not sure it's exactly a lie when used by some people to describe antifa and other violent assholes. The complexity makes it a bit Infinite Little Lie-esque.
I read that the term "liberal media" started during the Civil
Rights era. There was an event, maybe Selma, that turned the media around on reporting those stories. And, supposedly, from that point forward, the coverage was sympathetic to
TM
In any event, from 1933 (34?) through January 1933, it well may have seemed to the right wing that establishment media was liberal. And to the left wing that establishment media was Goldilocks objective. Of course, the media was in fact more objective before we had 24 hour news and then 24 hour political news. And internet news and commentary changed the entire ballgame and still is.
Can anyone identify
Orwell: Where's the omelette?
I'm not meteor man, but demographics are baked into voting
and identity politics are baked into the entire history of the Democratic Party. Someone probably invented the name identity politics, but the existence of what we call identity politics is dictated by the history of the Party.
Lying in Politics - Hannah Arendt 1967
One of the most important political theorists of the 20 th century
(well, that sure seems like a long time ago that that century passed, or is it me?....)
I vividly recall reading her 1967 article in The New Yorker. Don't recall the exact details, but think about it often and have several of her books but have not read them recently.
This is from an article on Hannah Arendt
Lying in Politics: Hannah Arendt on Deception, Self-Deception, and the Psychology of Defactualization “No matter how large the tissue of falsehood that an experienced liar has to offer, it will never be large enough … to cover the immensity of factuality.”
Here is a link to New Yorker and the 1967 article. Not sure if it works. I subscribe so if I got there, might not mean that you could get there
Truth and Politics
There is a web site with her stuff on it -- somewhere
Doing a search found this article published yesterday
What philosopher Hannah Arendt would say about Donald Trump Donald Trump is not a totalitarian, but his creation of a social movement is very dangerous - and the left is enabling it, explains Roger Berkowitz, a scholar on renowned Jewish-German philosopher Hannah Arendt
She was THE expert on totalitarianism back then.
Thank you so much for that interesting reference.
I was able to access the article in the New Yorker via your link. However, I could not read very much of the article without subscribing.
Timely essay brilliantly delivered.
In just the past few days, as the Russia Hack of the DNC has been exposed as the conspiratorial Big Lie that it is — this news is finally filtering through the corporate media in places like WaPo and The Hill.
The pushback, filled with lies and misinformation big and small, are perfect illustrations to the propaganda doctrine in this essay.
For the first time in a long time, truth warriors can relax because those lies are being met and slain personally by Adam Carter, who along with the Forensicator, blew the lid off the Big DNC/Crowdstrike Lie about Russia. (This was the subject of my essay, The Road Stops Here.)
In today's episode, Distortions & Missing The Point, he takes on New York Magazine, Washington Post, and The Hill. You might like it.
Carry a flame and share the light.
.
Thanks so much, PR.
I wrote about the DNC and Podesta emails in March, if you are interested. https://caucus99percent.com/content/big-lie-russia-interfered-us-preside...
(I did not check to see if you commented on that thread.) The things you referenced seem interesting. I will look at them after I finish replying to everyone who posted on this thread. Thank you again.
I read your essay and looked at Carter's stuff a bit.
I will be interested to see if any consensus is ever reached on this. For example, I've seen The Nation get dismissed as having morphed into RT. Two or three millennia later, we're still killing the messenger when we don't like the news.
I see a market
for the old bumper sticker; Question Authority!
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
I say, come right out with it.
Government and media lie. Beware!
Need a Lucky Strike ... goes well with Nazi uniforms...
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, and our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of…. It is they who pull the wires that control the public mind." ~ Edward Bernays, "Propaganda" 1928
Of course Trump has changed The Century of Self into The Century of Trump![Smile](https://caucus99percent.com/sites/all/modules/smiley/packs/kolobok/smile.gif)
Thanks for the good read and thread!
Bernays was a piece of work!
Lucky Strike Green Has Gone to War! https://www.old-time.com/commercials/1940%27s/Cigarette%20Pack%20Color.htm
Turns out, during the 20s and 30s, uranium was used to make greens, different shades of yellow (vaseline yellow, custard) and other colors. It was used all kinds of tableware and food storage--cannisters, spice containers, refrigerator dishes, etc. Radioactivity is even a selling point now: On ebay, some vendors use a black light to show how an item glows in the dark. YIKES!
And, of course, the crystal contained lead and still does. Plus, cigarette smoking was catching on. All kinds of pretty ashtrays, some in pink glass with hearts, some 8-shaped, so two people could smoke side by side, each with his or her own section of the ashtray.
It's a wonder those generations didn't die by 45, just from what they put their food and wine in and on.
At least World War II put an end to that by gobbling up all the uranium.
Morning Henry...
Interesting, learn something every day here. Cheers.
Long live Art Deco!
I can visualize a room full of this uranium glass and a doobie with great music.![Smile](https://caucus99percent.com/sites/all/modules/smiley/packs/kolobok/smile.gif)