Preamble to the constitution

Submitted by QMS on Sun, 07/30/2017 - 9:43pm

Whatever happened to this?

Bill of Rights

James Madison's proposed amendments to the Constitution:

First. That there be prefixed to the constitution a declaration that all power is originally vested in, and consequently derived from the people.

That government is instituted, and ought to be exercised for the benefit of the people; which consists in the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the right of acquiring and using property, and generally of pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety.

That the people have an indubitable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to reform or change their government, whenever it be found adverse or inadequate to the purposes of its institution

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Submitted by QMS on Sun, 07/30/2017 - 9:55pm
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had to refresh page to make it work Jtc?

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question everything

Submitted by Ellen North on Sun, 07/30/2017 - 10:16pm

@QMS

How ironic... maybe it's a sign?

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by QMS on Sun, 07/30/2017 - 10:37pm
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@Ellen North @Ellen North a sign that big brother is changing the framing of our past to accommodate the present tension?

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Submitted by Ellen North on Sun, 07/30/2017 - 10:29pm

@QMS @QMS

A sign that the people had better conduct a regime change, fast!

Edited for letter typo and to add a comma.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by QMS on Sun, 07/30/2017 - 10:17pm
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When did they delete this?

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Submitted by Ellen North on Sun, 07/30/2017 - 10:34pm

@QMS

If this is true, they can't, they just apparently think they can and so far, all of the abuses have been let slide by the people. But there has to be that line somewhere and I should think this would absolutely have to be it. Think the right wing would approve of some geek taking an eraser to the Constitution and assuming that would pass? This is something that virtually all of America could rally under.

Snap election time.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by QMS on Sun, 07/30/2017 - 10:42pm
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@Ellen North I remember reciting the preamble way back in the 60's. I look it up now, and it has been deleted. Like, WTF!! Am I the only one who noticed the change? Now it's all about congressional, executive and judicial powers. How did the people get left out of this? In fucking sane.

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Submitted by Ellen North on Mon, 07/31/2017 - 8:12am

@QMS

I've read this Constitutional preamble on the internet myself and I recall reading that the more enlightened Founders had to fight to get that in but succeeded.

I meant if it was true that mention of it, indicating the actual point and meaning of democracy, had been erased from the Constitution by traitorous self-interests, that there would be that uprising, including among the right wing.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by Wink on Mon, 07/31/2017 - 2:41am
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@QMS
been a draft.

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Submitted by FuturePassed on Mon, 07/31/2017 - 4:53pm

@QMS
never included. The government created by the Constitution replaced the articles of confederation. The articles were clearly created by and for the states. They were unworkable. There were people doing everything in their power to make it clear that the new government was a creation of the people of all the states. But there were a lot of states rights people involved too. Lots of compromises.

At least the preamble begins "We the people of the United States . . ." It took the Civil War to establish the union was indivisible.

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Submitted by Big Al on Sun, 07/30/2017 - 10:46pm
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that seriously? We have the fucking right to be free, no man or woman has the right to keep me or anyone as their slave in any form. So obviously we have the right to reform or change this government if it doesn't represent us at all and effectively keeps us as underclass slaves.
Whatever happened to Common Sense? Oh ya, everything is from way back, seems like people are too chickenshit today to fight for real freedom.
Thank you, no applause, tip hat at the door.

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Submitted by QMS on Sun, 07/30/2017 - 11:14pm
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@Big Al @Big Al but when the hell did they change the preamble to the constitution? I don't remember any gathering of minds or a vote or anything relating to the language changing Madison's preamble. It must have been after the 1960's, because I could swear I know those words were there at one time.

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Submitted by QMS on Sun, 07/30/2017 - 11:07pm
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That the people have an indubitable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to reform or change their government, whenever it be found adverse or inadequate to the purposes of its institution

but quite sure it was not to the benefit of the people

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Submitted by HenryAWallace on Mon, 07/31/2017 - 7:17am

the Ninth and Tenth Amendments instead:

Per Madison: "First. That there be prefixed to the constitution a declaration that all power is originally vested in, and consequently derived from the people."

The Ninth and Tenth Amendments to the Constitution of the United States:

Ninth Amendment The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Tenth Amendment The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Wikipedia seems to do a good job of giving the history of each of these two amendments:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Const...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Const...

Additionally, the actual preamble to the Constitution of the US implies that all power of the federal government came from the people:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

I'll look at Madison's other proposals later and comment, if I have time.

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Submitted by dkmich on Mon, 07/31/2017 - 7:37am

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Submitted by HenryAWallace on Mon, 07/31/2017 - 12:52pm

Madison's second paragraph:

That government is instituted, and ought to be exercised for the benefit of the people; which consists in the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the right of acquiring and using property, and generally of pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety.

"Ought to be" means nothing in a legal document. It was one thing for the
Founders to prattle about life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in the Declaration of Independence, which created no legal rights. Even then, I don't know how anyone in a nation that had decided on perpetuating slavery could have written that with a straight face. And, I'm just as glad that the right to acquire private property did not make its way into the COTUS.

Madison's third paragraph

That the people have an indubitable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to reform or change their government, whenever it be found adverse or inadequate to the purposes of its institution

In theory, the right to amend the COTUS took care of Madison's third paragraph. However, even Tony Scalia said the COTUS may be too difficult to amend.

Bottom line: If this stuff really was from Madison, he was a bigger fraud than I thought. He mistrusted the rabble.

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