State Secrets and the White Train
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
- - You know the source.
For a time I actually thought the United States government classification system was about keeping us safe. While that may, in some way, be true: It often is used to keep us ignorant.
My undergraduate mentor one evening told a revealing story. A few years earlier he and his wife were at party. Some her coworkers were having a fun (somewhat boisterous) conversation wherein they were testing how much they could say without crossing the confidentiality barrier. At one point my mentor had heard quite enough as one of the coworkers said something like, "The real problem is how do you stop the neutrons from escaping.", and in an equally loud voice my mentor answered, "Just wrap it in beryllium." The room suddenly went dead, and they all stared at my mentor's wife as if she were some kind of a traitor. A few moments of this and my mentor scolded her coworkers, pointing out his area of expertise in Physics.
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Comments
From your link:
@Linda Wood
Why do we trust Brookings as a source on this?
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Good question.
In fact, that's always a good question.
These idiotic bastards.
Not really off topic but a friend just emailed and is actually worried about bomb shelters and N Korea. Our stupid media and that kind of fear just pisses me off to no end. I do not believe N Korea is going to nuke us but if they do, I don't want to survive that! The FEAR they gin up in people. My friend has young kids so I can hardly blame her for being scared. God they make me mad.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
I Have A Different Perspective.
Hysteria can only work if you let it work. Even if North Korea did send a Nuke this way. The image in your head does not match reality.
Joe posted this link in tonight's EBs
It shows nuclear bombs being tested in the Nevada desert, underground and at sea.
IIRC, the one in Nevada not only killed those men who watched it but a lot of people who lived close to the border had high cancer rates.
St. George Utah I think is the town that had the high cancer rates.
The idiots who think that they can set off a mini nuke at Russia are idiots. If Russia gets hit with any type of nuclear weapon they are going to discharge their big ones and they have nuclear weapons on their submarines and I wonder how many of those are sitting off our coastlines?
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39573188. Shorter version of video of the bombs.
A few of the men looked up just as the blast wave hit them. I wonder how long they lived after watching that?
Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.
Here is the YouTube site.
Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory Atmospheric Nuclear Tests
Thanks price rip
For putting the YouTube link in your comment.
Yours adds more information
Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.
St. George, Utah
The Conqueror was shot, with studio sequences shot on -- you guessed it -- dirt imported from the site. Cancer occurrences and death rates were way out of proportion among the film's various participants. From the linked article:
.... was also the place where the notorious super-flop film"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
@PriceRip I reserve the right to
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Concerned ... Of course but
I remember 16 October 1962 - 28 October 1962, very well, I had just turned 14, started junior high school and was very aware of what could happen. Except we weren't fully informed:
The single most dangerous component of the nuclear arsenals are the tactical (as opposed to the strategic) weapons. They are the easiest to deploy and to use.
If some crazy someone actually tries to start a nuclear exchange, the exchange will be shutdown.
With all due respect,
and as one of your readers who respects you tremendously, what makes you so sure of this?
History
The weapons (including the DU projectiles) used to date are actually incrementally worse than previously used weapons. The next level, tactical nuclear weapons, represents a significantly different kind of warfare. Using tactical nukes would be like handing a fully automatic rifle to a soldier in 1780. The soldier might be a "killing machine" for a time but that soldier would not last long.
We got away with Hiroshima and Nagasaki only because it was a total surprise and, scientists, particularly at Los Alamos, were naive. In a conversation with Linus Pauling a few years later Einstein talked of his mistake and belief that FDR would not have allowed Hiroshima and Nagasaki to be bombed.
Nobody is naive anymore or as Bainbridge remarked to Oppenheimer immediately after the Trinity test, "Now we are all sons of bitches."
I think, any attempt, by Trump to perpetuate a nuclear exchange, would be sabotaged.
@PriceRip By Trump, yes.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
What?
How can you say this? You may be thinking the decision-making about the use of our weapons is in the hands of clear-headed scientists like yourself. But to quote Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal,
If reasonable scientists like yourself were making the decisions we would never have manufactured, much less used, Depleted Uranium. Ashton Carter, also a physicist, acted to modernize our nuclear weapons in order to make them MORE USEABLE! That's the kind of maniac who becomes Secretary of "Defense" in this country!
We've been hearing about how chemical weapons are bad. Here we are, 30 years later, and they're all over the place in Syria and Iraq. How did that happen? I don't even want to start a discussion about our biological weapons "program." It's illegal under U.S. law and International law, and yet GW Bush expanded it after the anthrax attack. Of course. That would be the logical thing to do. IF YOU'RE A MORAL IMBECILE.
PriceRip, I love you, Man, but what makes people nervous is what we're looking at, and that is the clear sign that our country's leadership consists of either morons or maniacs. They are not people like you.
Ill informed, stupid, et cetera but not Naive
I was reading this just before I "clicked" back here and saw your comment. This article is a good read. It illustrates why, by way of an analogy, I will never trust commercially owned nuclear powered electrical generating facilities or training programs less rigorous than those overseen by Rickover or a select few I know personally. All of this is to say: I know how to correct the issues you raise, it's trivial, but as we are not allowed at the table we are not able to implement those solutions. As long as there is big money to be made doing stupid, stupid will get to be the leader.
As for Ashton Carter, sociopaths exist in all walks of life. The "sociopath" label may seem a bit harsh until you realize that all personality "disorders" manifest as on a spectrum or sliding scale. But any modern physicist that would think nuclear weapons should be made more user friendly is certainly a bit sociopathic. We are here and in the various national labs. We keep watching, we keep acting, and we don't stop. Certainly we are fallible (we are human ‽) but we keep doing what we can.
That being said the key is to find a way to get the general public (voters in particular) to support those that at least respect our efforts. Critical infrastructure (EPA, NIH, and others) will be severely weakened if not destroyed if current trends are not reversed.
My comments are not about Trump Versus Democrats or any other such lame slogan of the day. My comments are about a fundamental reordering of how we function as a society.
North Korean missiles can (Maybe) reach Washington state.
China has more to fear from a crazy man in charge of the missiles than we do. North Korea is dependent on China for their very existence. Trump should have been talking to Xi about replacing that hereditary idiot in NK and replacing him with a Chinese puppet. Or China directly "restoring order" in North Korea. As China woos South Korea economically, N. Korea becomes just a bad embarrassment.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
North Korea
I still think that the end of the North Korean regime will come when Kim Jong-Un launches a live, armed rocket, and instead of flying off towards Japan, it misdirects into China. At that point, the NK regime will not find the Chinese as forgiving as the Americans and Japanese have heretofore been.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
China has already threatened N Korea
.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-12/china-threatens-north-korea-nev...
At this point in time
The major role of any government is to lie about the lies of yesterday, lie about today, and prepare notes for the lies to be given out tomorrow regarding the lies of today.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
the role of government
That's "the major role of any government" at any time in history!
Or, as Hermann Goering put it: "It works the same way in any country."
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Goering and Hitler learned it from the Brits & Yanks
@thanatokephaloides Actually don't agree.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
cynicism and snark
There was considerable cynicism and snark in that exchange, I'll grant you.
But at 58, I'm really too young to have seen much of the "many others" other than as a minor child. The Alien burst its bonds in the Nixon Administration, and the evil jinn has never been re-bottled since.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
@thanatokephaloides
Turning point moments, aka advancement in the velvet coup, during my lifetime:
1968 (Assassinations and mega-failure of Democratic party)
1971 (Powell Memo)
1972 (Democratic party reorganization post-McGovern. Superdelegates, etc.)
1978 (Neo-conservative movement launches)
1980 (Reagan wins. Deal with Iranians that they probably now regret.)
1981 (Exceptions to Posse Comitatus)
1985 (DLC invented)
1988 (More exceptions to Posse Comitatus)
1992 (Clintons take over Democratic Party.)
1994 (Newt Gingrich/far-right Republicans take over House.)
1996 (Telecommunications Act)
------
After this point, no more access to political system for non-rich citizens
2000 (Bush junta installed against will of the people)
2001 (Patriot Act 1)
------
After this point, no more basic rights for non-rich citizens
2002 (AUMF. Iraq War/PNAC Middle East strategy kickoff)
2004 (Bush once again installed fraudulently)
2008 (Wall St. crash, bailout; Congress openly acts against will of people)
2010 (Citizens United)
---
After this point, no more real power for Congress
2016 (military stops obeying President)
---
After this point, little power for President
Feel free to add more of your own!
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal For instance, I
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Stolen!!
Thank You!![Smile](https://caucus99percent.com/sites/all/modules/smiley/packs/kolobok/smile.gif)
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
@thanatokephaloides You're welcome!
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
This may be naive as hell...
I thought I remembered a time when we had real statesmen doing public service to a country. In the Agatha Christie books, Miss Marple would have attributed it to the difference between the honor and breeding of old money vs the crass commercialism of new money. Trump vs the Kennedys.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Kennedys are new money.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Kennedys' money
It's still older money than Hair Chump's, though. And Kennedys took up acting "old money" fast, too. (It's typical Northern Tidewater behavior; the Roosevelts did much the same!)
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Genuine “old money” in U.S. politics were like Henry Cabot Lodge
https://infogalactic.com/info/Henry_Cabot_Lodge_Jr.
@The Voice In the Wilderness It's a question of old
We had to burn the planet in order to pacify it.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
statesmen in service
You're pushing (age) 80?
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
For the very wealthy on the East Coast
…learning the obligations of great wealth came early in childhood, in the form of public service. I recall a biography written about the Kennedys that talked about that. Public service was practiced along with the management of wealth. It was second nature, and each generation taught it to the next. The tradition was established in England, as Jane Austin readers will know well. It maintained a harmony in the countryside when the very wealthy did their duty among the poor on their estates.
Carry a flame and share the light.
.
Noblesse Oblige
And in the Northern Tidewater in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries, new money picked up the habits fast. In an earlier Comment I mentioned the Kennedys and the Roosevelts as examples.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Nuclear War ! ! ! !
Before you try to run through any scenario leading to a full scale cluster fuck involving those (now) approximately 15,000 warheads. Stop and think for a bit.
Take a deep breath and think about what would really happen.
And, consider
Depleted uranium from "conventional" weapons have done far more harm than the Two Warheads actually detonated in war. Testing (near my extended family and elsewhere) has created far more contamination than produced by the Two Warheads actually detonated in war.
Fear mongering will only serve to cloud your judgment.
The military is still using both depleted uranium
and white phosphorus in Iraq and Syria. As you pointed out yesterday it's going to take billions of years before those areas are habitable again.
That is a much bigger war crime than the use of sarin gas even though all 3 reach the same results.
Why isn't anyone sanctioning this country for its use of chemical weapons?
How do those other countries allow us to do whatever we want and not hold us accountable? I don't understand that.
Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.
Because the US funds and hosts the UN
and therefore makes the rules on what they can and cannot say and do. "Whoever pays the piper calls the tune", and other slogans having to do with the obscene power of Money.
If the rest of the world were really serious about bringing the US to heel, they'd pull the UN out of the US and relocate it to some neutral zone such as Geneva, Switzerland, they'd stop taking US money and fund it themselves, and they'd stop dealing with the US in any way whatsoever - especially petrodollars.
Ironically, "getting the UN out of the uS" has been a neocon wet dream since they were the lunatic fringe John Birch Society - but I don't think they ever thought through the implications.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
UN and US
Actually, the bumper stickers read the opposite polarity, i.e., "Get US out of the UN!" These hyper-neocon whack jobs want the US to be able to conduct its affairs as it damn well pleases, use secret treaties, and only have to respect its own sovereignty. Then, of course, they want to be the only power in this country.
The implications are horrific, as you correctly allude.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Don't you love it
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
At another site
someone had made the claim that DU was innocuous. I, the fool that I am reply with a few bits of reality. I was buried, as obviously I don't know anything about the subject.
My problem is that I refuse to quote extraneous sources. I have never been particularly good at quoting extraneous sources, much to the consternation of my thesis advisor. Publishing in some journals is impossible until you divine which "favorite son" is not on your list of precursor papers.
I admit my googling was not extensive
For me, the fact that the army seems to treat it's own hit vehicles as contaminated lends credence but so far I haven't actually backtracked all the claims. As always, I operate with the assumption that everyone is lying
I obviously assume the armed forces are lying but I ran into a paper from the WHO that was also inconclusive although expressed concern about children... a concern notably lacking from Democrats nowadays in all but speech.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
This ain't rocket science.
This information and some knowledge of track physics determine the radiological effects of Depleted Uranium Dust. This knowledge plus knowing the amount of dust and larger fragments allows one to determine the effects on the humans in an area.
the source
Christian Scriptures, First Letter of Paul to the Corinthians, chapter 13, verse 11; to be precise, Captain!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Thanks, than at!
(ducks)
Going to Catholic parochial school, the irony of a oxymoronic classification for a school wasn't lost on me.
There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.
No Bible studies for me, either
Mass was first class.
And I was an alter boy who was sure to show for the 5:30 mass so I was scheduled every week, Mon thru sat. That gave me two masses a day, and add the occasional funeral making three those days...
I guess the figured I was being overworked since I never got scheduled for weddings--you know, the ones the alter boys actually get a bit of cash for.
There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.
No Females Allowed at the Altar
Ah catechism. I remember those days
I grew up in Utah where most of my friends were Mormon. I was friends with one of my teachers and she asked a group of us to go somewhere and I told her that I couldn't go because I had catechism.
She asked me if I was sick or something.
Fun memory from way back.
Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.
Ah, memories!
I had a fellow from Catholic school eventually go and study for the priesthood.
He would return from time to time to the old neighborhood. I would ask him how things were at "the cemetery". (seminary)
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Baptized Lutheran, no real Bible study
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
Be - makes a lot of sense
Nasty stuff to be around too, but worked years around it in aerospace before the 80hr+ work weeks ended my first marriage. Thankfully, was never involved in weapons production.
Fighting for democratic principles,... well, since forever
Top Secret
I think it is important to keep in mind that the people you elect to office have nothing to do with creating classified documents. They don't mark documents as classified. They don't manage these documents or make them unavailable to you.
Classified documents are ruled by deeply embedded, unelected authorities, across just three departments. They decide what Americans can know about their country. They have no oversight and they classify their own activities. None of this is available to those elected to office, who do not have clearance to view this information. This is the Deep State. These are the Neocons who took over the Trump administration in April.
You can't vote your way out of this.
Carry a flame and share the light.
.
Living in Dresden, I think the ordinary people I meet are heroes
Even when people in the U.S. or Western Europe vote for political change, actually getting it is so rare that it qualifies as a “black swan event.”
I think voters go for things like Brexit or Trump because they are desperate for change and by now know very well from experience that, in terms of actual citizen control over government, the usual methods of political expression no longer work — in fact a realization is dawning that they stopped working in the mid-1970s and have been neutered by post-Powell-memo total mass media mind manipulation since.
vote your way out of this
That would be Defense, State, and.... ??
Actually, we could vote our way out of it. But it would take a concerted effort among the American electorate to elect a Congress whose first priority would be to disempower these people. And the concerted effort required is one that has never been seen in our history.
The same concerted effort would be required to elect a peace-oriented, anti-interventionist Congress and President, which is why we have neither. So long as the bulk of the American People beLIEve that our military exists to keep them safe (along with other LIEs of that nature) we won't have that effort.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
The real challange:
How do we transform cynicism into criticism. I detect a lot of cynicism masquerading as criticism out there in the real world and that is not helpful. I understand the frustration that has created this situation. A big part of the problem is the concerted effort to discredit the "left", "real liberals", or whatever. Whatever, or however we identify, how can we make sure critical thought is not dismissed as cynicism all dressed up with no place to go? Or worse: The accusation of "let's have a pity-party because of my bruised feelings." drives me crazy.
Excellent question!
Excellent question, PriceRip! What do you suggest?
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Education, that's all I can work with.
I think the key is in the comment of yours that I quoted. If (a very big if) we could change that dynamic, make the military subservient to the will of the people and not allow it to support unfettered capitalistic greed, and imperialistic impulses, maybe we could actually have a great country.
I like "impulses" over "goals" as the former denies the notion that politicians have put any real thought into their actions. They, all of them, lack impulse control.
only truth
Only truth!
[video:https://youtu.be/9Ex-kUK_7OQ width:500 height:350]
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
I would add NETANYAHU to the list of people like Trump or NK Kim
— I mean, speaking of regimes and leaders that shouldn’t be trusted with nukes and, if the world were saner, wouldn’t be.
I just listened to over an hour to Noam Chomsky
and it's giving me some hope, when he tells the young: It's not your task to prove that's better to be stupid than smart, but to prove that it is better to be smanrt than stupid.
Noam Chomsky: The Prospects for Survival
[video:https://youtu.be/1uSwEqyJhGI]
Starts at TC 5:45 and goes on for almost 1 1/2 hours. A lot in there.
https://www.euronews.com/live