Thursday Open Thread 3-16-2017

Submitted by studentofearth on Thu, 03/16/2017 - 8:14am

Morning – I am going to be hosting Thursday’s for a while from the eastern side of the Cascade Mountain range in Oregon. I plan on writing on the subject of resilience, share the experience of the seasonal flow of farm life and discuss thoughts that pop into by head as I walk the pastures to irrigate, fix fence and work with livestock.

A 4th generation Oregonian, who surprisingly did not stay as far away as possible from the place I was born and raised as I planned to when I left for college. The area changed as much as I did. Many of the change were initiated by immigrants moving to the area. Since I was a child in the sixties most of the problems of our growing community has been blamed on Californians. The most vocal anti-Californians seem to be the recent immigrants of 5 to 10 years.

Interestingly, the socialist practices that created the rural America are not acknowledged or well understood by its citizens. My great-grandparents came to the area to take claim land under the Homestead Act and gain water rights from the Irrigation District being created. My grandparents were able to buy a home with VA benefits for World War II veterans. The other side of the family and my Dad worked in the timber industry that logged federal lands. Unions kept the wages at a level one could raise a family.

Electricity was brought to the original homestead by a Federal program that built the Bonneville Damn and the local electricity co-op. The private electricity company only brought power to the towns.

The free 4-H programs I participated in as a youth were ran by the land-grant university I eventually attended. Free adult education programs were provided by the university before the Community College started their adult education programs. The new program directory from the college arrived this week. I found out I can learn how to make the perfect apple pie for only $79 and 6 1/2 hours.

Our open spaces are protected by the state Land Use Planning. The beaches have not been totally blocked by private ownership due to the Oregon Beach Bill. Our citizens ability to initiate ballot measures has helped keep the state progressive.

Been thinking about ballot initiatives and their importance for creating a ground swell for political and social change. The marijuana laws, LGBT rights, minimum wage increases, awareness of GMO foods and single payer have all been moved forward by citizen initiatives. Any thoughts on ideas ballot measures that could be used to assist in effecting the narrative to alternatives for the two political parties and reduce the growing police state? Perhaps making it harder to seize property without a criminal conviction. Requiring elected politicians participate in the same health plans as regular citizens. Improving voter participation by expanding vote by mail in states. Actually these ideas seem stale – what are your thoughts?

Ending this week with a music video and lyrics. I have a terrible ear for music and often can’t separate the music from lyrics. I really appreciate the wide range of per-selected music on C99.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uS4xyZRKps]
Thursdays Child

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Submitted by Lookout on Thu, 03/16/2017 - 8:43am

Good morning SoE

I look forward to your rural perspective. I've been homesteading in the NE corner of Alabama for 30 years now. I'm hoping today is our last freeze - had to put row covers over the young lettuce. Peas and greens can handle the low temps...in fact I think they make the collards and cabbages sweeter.

At one time FDR was a hero in this area. Our county still voted democrat till the last 10 years or so as the older folks who remembered FDR died out. Now it is all rethugs (surviving dems crossed over). Electricity came to my valley in 1950 thanks to TVA.

Well, all the best and I'll look forward to your future OT's.

—

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Submitted by studentofearth on Thu, 03/16/2017 - 9:16am

My fingers area itching to plant

@Lookout We have had a few nice days and the crocuses are starting to poke out of the ground. The last freeze will probably be mid-May. Your lettuce should be ready to eat before I plant.

—

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Submitted by eyo on Thu, 03/16/2017 - 8:50am

Inland Northeast Gets Record-Burying Snow

Hi studentofearth, thanks for doing the Open Thread thing. Just saw headline over on wunderblog and thought about riverlover and her new cast. I hope she is not too buried, and has some assistance digging out. I remember my aunt broke her arm and couldn't shovel her sidewalk but that was Greenwich Village, not upstate. Everyone chipped in. Err wait, that was the 80s a long time ago. The future is now: Inland Northeast Gets Record-Burying Snow. Be safe east coasters.

Also back in the 80s, I remember taking a road trip from California to look at small parcels for sale in Oregon. It was great, we drove up Highway 101 sight-seeing and exploring, not I5. The coast was gorgeous, heh! We left with the question "Why go where you're not wanted" because it was quite clear we were not. Lesbian treehugger until the end I guess. Not a pussyhat.

Peace

Submitted by studentofearth on Thu, 03/16/2017 - 9:58am

Never noticed the intolerance growing up

@eyo My mother created a bubble of tolerance around her with her children at the center. Reflecting on my childhood, I realized her high school friends and certain relatives came back to visit family, and did not live locally. We often do not notice the blinders on our eyes hiding whats happening around us and how we perpetuate the narrowed view.

—

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Submitted by riverlover on Thu, 03/16/2017 - 8:59am

Electricity came up my hill in the 1950's, in NY!

When we bought, the country road was still gravel. No cable until the last decade, no natural gas lines. 5 miles out from Ithaca, imagine.

I confess I have nearly no resilience left. 18+" of snow buries my car and I cannot dig it out, broken foot in cast (open-toed) that can't get wet. Time for body replenishment. And that is just time. Hard to stand long enough to prepare a meal. Going to try dumping stuff in a crock pot for tonight. At least I have food.

—

Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

Submitted by studentofearth on Thu, 03/16/2017 - 10:04am

Hardest part of resiliance is not depleteing yourself and

@riverlover giving yourself time to heal. Mark 8 weeks out on the calendar and challenge will be to take it easy until then and not re-injure the foot. Glad the storm waited until you had your foot stabilized. Crock pot meals usually create great leftovers.

—

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Submitted by riverlover on Thu, 03/16/2017 - 10:42am

Especially when cooking for one!

@studentofearth @studentofearth Some big chunk of beef, hen-of-the-woods (home-collected) fungus. I'll just keep dropping in ingredients until it's done. Your advice about R&R for 8 weeks may be about right. See the surgeon on the 24, with luck get more comfortable fiberglass cast then.Then maybe 6 more weeks? But I had 5 weeks with a broken foot pre-surgery.

But damnit! I have things to plant, incoming plants tomorrow, two trees here as well.

—

Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

Submitted by eyo on Thu, 03/16/2017 - 11:02am

Eat more kale :)

@riverlover nice to see you, hope your bones are healing nicely. Take care. This is just FYI, but I did love the Eat More Kale guy, he's doing fine now. Anyway, kale is even better than milk for calcium absorption, which helps bones heal, so eat more kale whenever possible.

I am yearning for dirt, with none available :(. At least I can buy a bag of commercial crap and try to grow it on my little deck. I like elephant kale, and oak leaf lettuce those are the greens I'm going for. I'd do cannabis medicine if allowed but nooo, Prop64 is clampdown, not freedom for me. Landlords and employers are the deciders. C'est la vie!

Peace & Love
Edited to add: speaking of propaganda, maybe I don't want the herb after all.

Marijuana use increases the risk of stroke by 26 percent and heart failure by 10 percent, a new study has found.

Cardiologist Aditi Kalla and her team at the Einstein Medical Center in Philadelphia will present their findings on Saturday at a meeting of the American College of Cardiology in Washington, D.C.

It’s stone cold news for California — a state that legalized recreational pot use four short months ago. But “the side effects shouldn’t preclude it from being legalized or prescribed,” Kalla said in an interview Wednesday.
...

Submitted by CroneWit on Thu, 03/16/2017 - 11:35am

@eyo A few days ago, the

@eyo A few days ago, the Guardian ran a similar piece suggesting that ibuprofen should be more controlled, not readily available, based on studies that were structured like the one your quote describes. Per the Guardian, the percentages were based on examinations of a number of people who had died of several kinds of heart problems. The correlation of ibuprofen use to death from certain heart-related deaths was used as 'proof that ibuprofen use leads to heart-related deaths'.

Perhaps I just don't have enough detail about the construction of the tests, but to me it looks like tests structured that way can (at best) show correlation, not causation -- ie, 'circumstantial evidence' in a detective show, instead of definite proof of direct causation.

Perhaps someone here knows enough about the structure of studies like these to convince me that they control somehow to end up with reliable confirmation of direct causation, instead of mere demonstration of correlation.

Submitted by eyo on Thu, 03/16/2017 - 12:03pm

It's bogus, everything after what I quoted

@CroneWit thanks and sorry I didn't add /snarc because that article is absurd, from the Cannifornian! Anyway the next part is absolute argle bargle:

... Examining medical records from a publicly available database, called the Nationwide Inpatient Sample, Kalla’s team looked at more than 20 million records of patients aged 18 to 55 who were discharged in 2009 and 2010, finding that 316,000 of them had used marijuana. Those individuals had a significant increase of stroke, heart failure, coronary artery disease and sudden cardiac death, the researchers reported.

Heart problems could easily be attributed to other health conditions or risk factors such as high blood pressure, obesity, alcohol use, diabetes and smoking. But the study was adjusted to rule out these factors, according to the American College of Cardiology.

Adjusted how? Doesn't say, trust don't verify.

“What does that mean? If you’re a marijuana user and you have chest pain, it might be a heart attack. If you have neurological changes, like motor function loss or sensation loss, it might be a stroke,” said Dr. William Abraham, director of cardiovascular medicine at the Ohio State University.

It might be this or it might be that! Great study.

If you experience any of those symptoms, “it might be wise to seek medical attention sooner,” he added.

Ya think? Or maybe the Data Science community has sampled too much. lol

Submitted by studentofearth on Thu, 03/16/2017 - 4:08pm

Increased heart heart attacks in young men using

@eyo marijuana has been observed for several years and may be related to its increase in heart rate followed by relaxation of blood vessels lowering blood pressure.

The current rush of publicity is on a study to be presented at American College of Cardiology’s 66th Annual Scientific Session this week. It is not a peer reviewed study.

from the press release

Because the study was based on hospital discharge records, the findings may not be reflective of the general population. The study was also limited by the researchers’ inability to account for quantity or frequency of marijuana use, purpose of use (recreational or medical), or delivery mechanism (smoking or ingestion).

—

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Submitted by eyo on Fri, 03/17/2017 - 2:09am

Stupid waste of time and money if you ask me

@studentofearth The reported observations are so friggin' obvious, what's the point? Yes, every drug has a physiological affect. Double-duh!

Where are the studies observing wellness? There won't be many with this mentality: "current rush of publicity is on a study to be presented". Negatory! More Page views for troglodytes.

Anything bad to say about a medicinal herb that has been used for thousands of years by smarter people, well put that on the front page!

I call bullshit, but go on. That study may actually have value, but the reporting is trash. Same as it ever was.

Thanks

Submitted by Ellen North on Sun, 03/19/2017 - 6:48pm

@studentofearth

@studentofearth

Don't use it myself, but know several people using it for medicinal purposes and it definitely does not smell the same as in my youth; typically smells 'chemically' to me. No idea what may have been added during various plant production or preparation, but even the most commonly used pesticides are definitely not healthy substances to be ingested. A retrospective chemical breakdown of past intake wouldn't even be possible to determine what adulterants might have been present, and having read since that this was based on unverified symptoms...

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by studentofearth on Thu, 03/16/2017 - 3:26pm

ibuprofen does increase cardiac events

@CroneWit Some studies have shown an increased risk of heart attacks when taken with aspirin and doses greater than 1200 mg/d or 6 over the counter (OTC) tablets. Cardiac effects had not been investigated until questions of adverse cardiac effects with Vioxx, a drug removed from the US market in 2004.

Heart attacks appear related to its effect in reversing the anti-platelet activity of low dose aspirin therapy. I would also avoid ibuprofen if taking ginkgo, garlic, ginger, bilberry, dong quai, feverfew, ginseng, turmeric, meadowsweet or willow. I have not seen a study that indicates if it is simply the reversal of the anti-platelet effects or something else is happening.

Ibuprofen's contribution to heart failure and increased blood pressure is due to different mechanisms.

—

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Submitted by Ellen North on Sun, 03/19/2017 - 6:36pm

@eyo

@eyo

Plus, look at the publicly admitted 'side'-effects of many pharma drugs, whch seem to be rather too-often assessed from industry studies and information. In comparison, even those issues may seem relatively minor.

And, as just been pointed out up-thread, may be potentially related more to the health issues triggering the use of medical marahoochi or other common factors in increased rates of multiple diseases/dysfunctions, such as poverty, living in/chronic exposure to a high-traffic or otherwise fossil fuel/industrially polluted area.

Another issue: who funded the study, btw? This also, sadly, often an issue even in once-independent universities, where Chairs are often provided as well as donations, and where students/whole departments may be used as cheap research teams by corporate funders. (And going to shut up now before the froth starts flying, lol.)

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by Arrow on Thu, 03/16/2017 - 9:23am

Two funny(Ironic) Tweets

I don't follow many on Twitter but @umairh is one.

Things Americans won't have, healthcare, public media, science, art, education. Not really fair to call it a developed country anymore.

— ❤️ (@umairh) March 16, 2017

What cosmic irony it is that the two great enemies America and Russia ended up the same broken and twisted way

— ❤️ (@umairh) March 16, 2017

—

I want a Pony!

Submitted by eyo on Thu, 03/16/2017 - 9:29am

Oroville Dam 15 March Flyover and Update

In case people don't know how gosh darned lucky we are in California, so far. There is a lot to be done. I stopped reading infrastructure news for a few days, there are so many roads out it's unbelievable. All we need now is a major earthquake either SF or LA. We are not Cuba with resilient co-ops all over the place. "We''re capitalists." "That's the system."

Submitted by mhagle on Thu, 03/16/2017 - 3:40pm

I look forward to reading this OT

Glad you are doing it!

I planted my round hay bales on Monday. Had to cover them right away because we had a freeze warning. 4 tomato plants got nipped, but otherwise everything looks ok.

It's an adventure, but I am hopeful.

—

Marilyn

"Make dirt, not war." eyo

Submitted by studentofearth on Thu, 03/16/2017 - 4:11pm

Very interested how the hay bales experiment proceeds

@mhagle Thanks for the update

—

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Submitted by Mark from Queens on Thu, 03/16/2017 - 9:38pm

Nice job, soe.

I enjoyed all the connections: to the land, farming, the family ties in Oregon, the mutuality of farmer and community, the history of the area and its ties to practical, common sense socialism.

Farmers, to me, are some of most under-appreciated people in modern society, and in America often the most beleaguered, from their domination by greedy corporate monopoly.

Look forward to your series!

—

"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:

THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"

- Kurt Vonnegut

Submitted by Cant Stop the M... on Sat, 03/18/2017 - 12:16am