Trump's tax cuts and the coming recession

It's an interesting historical moment, when the domestic political environment is obsessed with the present and recent past, that the politicians and public cannot see that we are on the verge of a systemic change.
All the memes, all the talking points, all the political plans and agendas, are about to be shitcanned and forgotten.

For starters, we will soon be in a recession.
How do I know this?
I'm not alone.

According to Michael Feroli and the economists at JP Morgan, based on their multi-variate model the chances of a recession before the end of 2017 now sit at 67% with the chances of recession within three years sitting at 92%.

Not all economists are so pessimistic, but a large majority of them expect a recession in the next four years.

It doesn't take a genius to see the probability of a recession soon.
Just look at history.

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This is already the 3rd longest economic expansion in America's history.
What are the chances that this "recovery" will be the longest in American history?
It could happen, but is it likely?

Republicans and Trump fans are looking toward the massive tax cuts that Trump promises to boost the economy.
That's certainly the case with the stock market.

shiller PE.jpg

Republicans think fondly back to the huge tax cuts of 1981 and 2001 and how they boosted the economy. Their memories are flawed.
Forget for a moment that 1982 and 2001 were recession years, and also forget that the recovery from the 2001 recession was very weak, and also forget that 1981 was the start of a credit cycle while we are at the end of one.
Instead, think of the fiscal position of the federal government.

then vs now.jpg

We have deficits built into our budget and Trump is promising massive tax cuts under the laughable notion they will pay for themselves.
The question is, who will buy all this new debt?

In the age of Trump, America’s biggest foreign creditors are suddenly having second thoughts about financing the U.S. government.

In Japan, the largest holder of Treasuries, investors culled their stakes in December by the most in almost four years, the Ministry of Finance’s most recent figures show. What’s striking is the selling has persisted at a time when going abroad has rarely been so attractive. And it’s not just the Japanese. Across the world, foreigners are pulling back from U.S. debt like never before.

From Tokyo to Beijing and London, the consensus is clear: few overseas investors want to step into the $13.9 trillion U.S. Treasury market right now. Whether it’s the prospect of bigger deficits and more inflation under President Donald Trump or higher interest rates from the Federal Reserve, the world’s safest debt market seems less of a sure thing -- particularly after the upswing in yields since November. And then there is Trump’s penchant for saber rattling, which has made staying home that much easier.

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If Japan and China can't or won't fund us, then there is only one other alternative: higher interest rates.
And that's where things get messy.
Remember when I mentioned above where we are at the end of a credit cycle? This is what that means.

Americans now hold an incredible $4.1 trillion in consumer debt.  This latest data shows that Americans are now back to having an insatiable appetite for spending beyond their means.  Unlike mortgage debt, consumer debt is not building up any future equity here.  The largest category of consumer debt is student loan debt.  Even at the peak of the last debt bubble, consumer debt totaled roughly $2.5 trillion.  While student debt makes up about $1.4 trillion of the consumer debt here, auto debt is above $1 trillion.  We’ve also seen a large rise in subprime auto debt suggesting that people are borrowing beyond their means to consume.  Delinquencies are also rising suggesting any tiny slip up in the overall economy and this credit bubble can burst too.
Americans are now borrowing and spending at record levels. This would be fantastic if incomes were keeping up but many are trying to keep up with the Joneses by spending future income via consumer debt

It doesn't take much imagination to figure out what is going to happen to all those heavily indebted consumers when interest rates start rising. Retail spending will crash and loan defaults will spike.
Of course Trump and Congress could simply not pass those massive tax cuts, but it would be political suicide, and more importantly Wall Street has already priced in those tax cuts. Failure to pass them would cause a stock market crash.

With either crashing markets or a crashing economy ahead, do you really think that muslim immigrants and Russian konspiracy theories will be on people's minds?

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this worked for the Sunflower State:

...Trump is promising massive tax cuts under the laughable notion they will pay for themselves.

I'm strictly a layman in this area, but it has struck me for some time that textbook criteria for what we label recession and depression are no longer appropriate--that the economy as a whole never really recovered from the massive downturn (regardless of the picture painted by manipulated economic indicators), and that it was likely a depression and continues as a recession.

Thoughts?

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"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti

earthling1's picture

@2andfro @2andfro on the backs and wallets of the 99%.

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Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.

thanatokephaloides's picture

With either crashing markets or a crashing economy ahead, do you really think that muslim immigrants and Russian konspiracy theories will be on people's minds?

Yes.

The deep staters will pay the MSM Saganesque quantities (beelions and treelions and zeelions) to make sure that "muslim immigrants and Russian konspiracy theories will be on people's minds".

Fuck, they're doing just that right now to keep people's minds off of the clyster-fuck they're already facing!

Sad Bad

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Alligator Ed's picture

@thanatokephaloides Although I generally agree with your posts, not so this time:

The deep staters will pay the MSM Saganesque quantities (beelions and treelions and zeelions) to make sure that "muslim immigrants and Russian konspiracy theories will be on people's minds".

When people are starving, homeless, sick and dying, they will not give a fuck about conspiracy theories or Muslim immigrants. They will care, to the exclusion of everything else, about keep themselves alive, warm and dry.

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@Alligator Ed a major foreign war. Our politics have been base on the wedge issues rather than the actual policies for a long time now. Wedge issues can be ramped up/stirred up to levels of hatred that allow almost anything to occur. As we all know truth does not actually matter.

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@LaFeminista
An old jewish saying:

Food on the table, many problems

No food on the table, just one problem

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earthling1's picture

@Alligator Ed the MSM has been exposed as fake news, by the president himself. And most of the conservative community has been calling out the MSM for years now, think " the librul media", which is coming home to roost. Epic backfire. The Repugs own that one but even more it shows the beginning of the attacks on the MSM. Throw in she's inevitable and the Podesta emails indicating collusion with the DNC and CNN in the primary,and it's
not hard to imagine that most Americans have accepted as false anything out of the MSM.
The online community is where the real journalists dwell.

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Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.

thanatokephaloides's picture

@Alligator Ed @Alligator Ed

When people are starving, homeless, sick and dying, they will not give a fuck about conspiracy theories or Muslim immigrants. They will care, to the exclusion of everything else, about keep themselves alive, warm and dry.

The direction I was headed in was this: The deep staters will pay the MSM enough cash to actually solve the problem of keeping those masses alive, warm, and dry, to keep people's minds on conspiracy theories and Muslim immigrants .

Example: Chris Hayes is a relatively junior member of the on-air MSNBC team; yet according to Jimmy Dore, MSNBC pays him $30,000 a day (see this Essay and especially this video associated with it).

I don't know about you, Alligator Al, (actually, I have a pretty good idea!) but I could do a fine job of keeping some poor folks alive, warm, and dry for $30,000 a day. And, as I said above, Hayes is a junior, at or near the bottom of the MSNBC totem pole. I'd wager old Rachel Maddow makes considerably more, as does Chris "Tweety" Matthews.

The deep staters (or their cash sources) could go a loooong way towards fixing the freakin' problem with the money they will continue to spend keeping people from even thinking about it.

That doesn't mean that the folks who are actually suffering this problem will be ruminating on conspiracy theories or Muslim immigrants. It does mean, however, that every effort will be made to keep all such persons totally invisible, just as it is being done today.

My apologies if I over-simplified this.

Bad

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Pricknick's picture

on my finances in 2005. 2008 was easy to see coming as I worked in the housing market.
Shortly after someone said "We need to look forward", I knew it was time to batten the hatches.
Nice post.
Thanks.

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Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

snoopydawg's picture

@Pricknick

IMG_0864.JPG

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

karl pearson's picture

Janet Yellen indicated today that the Federal Reserve will raise interest rates mid-March. The Fed's plan is to raise rates 3 times this year.

Yellen's signal of a likely rate hike this month reflects an encouraging conclusion by the Fed: That nearly eight years after the Great Recession ended, the U.S. economy has finally regained most of its health.

IMO this is a bunch of happy talk because there are many indications that the U.S. economy has not regained most of its health. Maybe the Fed is raising rates so that when the recession comes, they can lower them to look like they are doing something constructive?

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@karl pearson assuming a 2020 recession

We assume that the recession causes the unemployment rate to rise 2.5 percentage points.
Using the results from the Fed staff's work, and assuming that there results can be extended linearly, a recession that is half as severe would require the Fed to undertake a $1tn QE program in 2020. We assume that this occurs through Treasury security purchases, with the maturity distribution of these purchases consistent with QE3.
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karl pearson's picture

@gjohnsit The Fed already is holding about $2.5 Trillion in treasuries. I can't see this "disappearing" before another $1 Trillion of QE is added. This vicious cycle has to end in big inflation followed by big deflation. Mercy!

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@karl pearson
Only that they would probably try more QE.

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earthling1's picture

@karl pearson is that every thing the government does now is directly against the people. Everything. I honestly cannot think of anything they have done "for" working Americans. Or am I blind?

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Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.

earthling1's picture

Does this line smack anyone else as FUBAR. Seriously,does Wall St. actually run the Congress? We are under such tight control that they don't even bother to hide it anymore.
Thanks gjohnsit. What is your take away from that?

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Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.

orlbucfan's picture

These FRightwingnuts learned how to manipulate language. Rec'd!!

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Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.

Echoing The 'Election Meddling Is An Act Of War' Line: http://www.newslogue.com/debate/371/CaitlinJohnstone

@thanatokephaloides

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"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti

It's the beauty of fiat money. The government can't go broke (internally). the citizens can, but not the owner of the printing press.

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

@The Voice In the Wilderness
We are in no danger of default.

But say goodbye to having a reserve currency if we do.

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Alligator Ed's picture

Yes, it did end for the banks. It did end for the ultra rich. But it certainly has not ended in any meaningful sense for the 99%. The 1% has grabbed more than half of the net benefit of the so-called ending of the Recession. The rest is scattered around to the masses, which individually amounts to very little because of the number of people in the divisor compared to the numbers in the denominator. How can Wall Street think to experience a boom when the "gains" are really paper, not just because money is paper (as well as electrons), but because the vast majority can not really support productivity absent the appropriate wealth distribution.

What contribution to the GDP do hedge funds make? None. They offer nothing of value to the economy as a whole. The "wealth" created by these financial parasites (including banksters in general) is nil. When banks loan to small business, the help build the economy. When banks loan to large business, they allow stock holders and Boards of Directors to shuffle the money between themselves without producing any tangible goods to the rest of society. When venture capitalists fund promising entrepreneurship, they contribute to the overall economy. Hedge funders are the Las Vegas denizens of Wall Street, contributing only money for themselves--money from the artificially inflated stock prices.

Is not the ownership of stocks based upon one of two possibilities? One is to buy stocks that pay dividends based upon profitable business operations. This is good.
The other reason is to buy "growth stocks" based on the assumption of a future profitability. I do not know the percentage of dividend stocks to growth stocks but when the market falls, as it surely will, growth stocks will take the biggest beating. Companies, like the auto companies, whose sales depend upon consumer credit purchasing, will be devastated, regardless of current profitability.

Instead of investing in tax breaks for the rich, we ought to be investing in America for Americans. This can be initiated right now. But Trump (and Hillary as well) seek to enrich the rich further.

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Big Al's picture

Something's gotta give. I agree. The thing is, "they're" going to make out. That's why "they" make it happen.

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Azazello's picture

Goldman Sachs sees "cognitive dissonance".
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0NlD1iBrkU width:500 height:300]

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We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.

@Azazello thanks, the discussion at the beginning makes good food for thought, along the same line of "the ecology is the economy" and vice versa.
Someone here recommended a documentary, I thought it was pretty good but ended feeling utterly hopeless about the new untouchables, in the sense that law cannot reach or control their actions. Anywhere. At all. So why try? Hmph. Goldman Sachs - La banque qui dirige le monde

inertia, it keeps going

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@Azazello
cg.png

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

"Insatiable appetite" "borrowing beyond their means"--and then I find out that the debt in question is primarily student loan debt and secondarily sub-prime auto debt.In other words, Americans have an "insatiable" appetite to get a degree so they can get a higher-paying job and are "borrowing beyond their means" so that they can have a car to get to work in, and our response to that is to criticize them for not buying a cheaper car, because clearly the problem with our economy and financial sector is that Americans want to drive expensive cars.

I wonder how many of them are living in them.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

thanatokephaloides's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

In other words, Americans have an "insatiable" appetite to get a degree so they can get a higher-paying job

Which higher pay will be eaten up by loan payments for decades to come.....

"borrowing beyond their means" so that they can have a car to get to work in,

Without which no employer for that degreed job will touch them -- even in an urban area with good public transit! (Been there done that -- many times!)

This sucks, of course. But can we get our supposed "representatives" to do anything concrete about it? Of course not!

Sad

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal I would also like to know what percentage of the credit card debt is for food and also for utilities, fuel and maintenance for those cars especially the ones bought with sub prime loans of which most are ready for the junk yard when they are sold. Mostly to the unknowledgeable and or have no other choice folks.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@pro left Nobody who hasn't been there--or had friends who have been--understands what getting a sub-prime-loan car can mean to a working person. That one debt can fuck you over for years, and that's if the car is actually not a total junker and manages to last longer than the debt does.

But you have to have it, in most places in this country, or you can't get to work, to the grocery store, to the doctor.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

We have W to thank for proving tax cuts don't, on their own, stimulate the economy. The economy limped, at best, during his reign of error.

Wealth distribution has paralyzed economic growth. Now we get some more austerity stew to maintain the value of the 1%'s portfolio. Combine that with massive spending on walls, border patrols and the MIC and there goes the shreds of remaining safety net.

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