Open Thread - Friday, January 29, 2016
Submitted by NCTim on Fri, 01/29/2016 - 6:55am
Well Thursday night has arrived and I got nuttin'.
Life has kept me occupied and off-line.
Last week, there was some discussion of dessert island play lists.
It would be cruel and unusual punishment to be relegated to just a few songs, but I do have money for the juke box and it is funk Friday!
As you can see, there is no funkin' way to come up with a dessert island list.
Comments
Thanks, Tim. Top of the mornin' to ya. I don't have much to say
here, a tad busy myself, but routing humdrum chores type of stuff.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
I am with you on the chore front
I am rolling and considering pulling out the floor cleaner.
Or maybe a chair nap.
The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. - Friedrich Nietzsche -
Good day, Tim and 99%'ers
With so much on your plate, I am amazed how you are able to provide us with a great open thread every Friday. It is Funkalicious Friday!
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Thanks GG!
What a morning! I bathed and dressed Sweetie, made breakfast, cleaned up the kitchen, dispensed meds, gathered the recycling, got the mail, flipped the newpaper pages for Sweetie, folded a load of clothes, washed another load. watered the plants, fed the birds and made the living room tidy for a visitor. I had funk!
The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. - Friedrich Nietzsche -
Sounds like my morning
which has spilled into afternoon, other then your wonderful taking care of Sweetie. Like your work song. Going on 4 loads of laundry, Eric vacuumed the downstairs while I ran mundane errands. Now I'm cleaning my office and sorting my piles which are not paperless. Like Eric said after working up a sweat vacuuming 'This might be easier if we did it once a week'. Balancing work ( working from home) keeping up with our maintenance household chores and various DIY home projects and netting it is a hard row to hoe. Like GG said I don't see how you do it all. Thank you for your Friday OT and posts. Much appreciated. Back to it. I'm almost ready to vacuum the upstairs the place where we generate income such as it is. We sure freaked the cats out with our hubbub of cleaning and moving stuff!
I bought a super light (8 lb) vacuum ...
with a really long cord (30 ft). I can get the whole downstairs from two outlets and I can fling the vacuum around. The whole downstairs takes about 10 minutes. The Work Song is one of my favorite classics.
The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. - Friedrich Nietzsche -
One more time
The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. - Friedrich Nietzsche -
Look What I Found
New album came out today.
The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. - Friedrich Nietzsche -
All Right!!!
I love them!
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
greetings,
Tim, and all other animals, minerals, and vegetables, terran or otherwise.
A humungous gas cloud is racing towards the Milky Way at a speed of 193 miles per second. Said cloud once lived here, but was thrown out, and now it is coming back. When it arrives, the Science Men believe, there will be a massive explosion. This is scheduled to occur in 300 million years. Prepare accordingly.
Good Morning
Thanks for the heads up.
The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. - Friedrich Nietzsche -
these days I'm prepared
for any damn scary thing the science men or the pols of mass destruction throw out. It's really hard to work up a proper of fright level when a new thing every day pops up and tells you oh no it's gonna kill us all.
I keep a rolling list of unanswered questions.
They are questions about political things I suspect everybody but me knows. Without the answer, it is impossible to proceed or analyze an issue. Since nobody else seems blocked by this, I must assume they fully understand the set up. Here a sample question:
A. Regarding Hillary's email server and classified documents: I understand the many nuances of classified docs, and the multiple motives behind the investigation. The State Department is essentially an Intelligence agency; it's part of the NIE. It handles classified data from all over the world all the time. Its global network of data and communications is classified, period. That's why Chelsea Manning is spending her life in prison.
But here's the question that is blocking me :: As SOS, Hillary Clinton saw classified documents all day every day. She discussed them with her colleagues at State and in foreign embassies. For most of her SOS career, Hillary was traveling. So, how did she receive and respond to classified information while she traveled? Was there a second server in the State Department that she used for that purpose?
My understanding is that she installed a private server to use for private and personal matters. It is not uncommon for officials to use private emails to talk to their spouses, children, friends, doctors, private business, and so forth. Government business is not done in private emails. If Hillary was using a private email address (server) to conduct business with State, the White House, the DOD, world leaders, etc — everyone would know that was improper. So, she obviously used the State Department system servers for all State Department communications.
That being said, I did notice some sensitive documents on her private server, but they were mostly historic. Powell's correspondence with Blair conspiring to lie the US into war; Kissenger's deal memos with the Saudi devils over Petrodollar hegemony for weapons sales, and shop-talk letters with former spooks and old friends. But generally, she did not use her private server for her mountainous pile of official business. This email segregation displays her intent.
The American public does not seem to know this. The media has pushed the narrative that Hillary used her private server to condust State Department business. Was that your assumption, too?
Anyway, I bring this up because there seems a renewed push about Server-Gate, which I have long dismissed as Right Wing whining. Why is this, again, igniting Crazy Town, do you suppose?
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
Have you ever doubted HRC's guile?
The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. - Friedrich Nietzsche -
Here's IG McCullough's recent statement
and an AP piece, below:
And that's the key--or the reason that even a marginally or moderately well-informed and/or responsible civilian federal employee should/would NEVER use a private server. It is well understood that government documents can, and do, fall in and out of classification. (Meaning being classified, declassified, and reclassified; and, there being the possibility of fluctuation in the 'level of classification.') It is for this very reason that one should always follow protocol--using only a secure government server when transmitting highly sensitive government documents/material.
Sorta pushed, but later I'll try to find my previous comment [here] on this topic, including my experience before I entered federal service, where I describe the incredible security that surrounds the handling and transport of classified material from the Pentagon to government-contracted firms/think tanks. This was in the 1970s. (IOW, when I was employed by a government-contracted firm, shortly before I entered federal service.)
If it weren't a serious matter, federal employees wouldn't have to undergo extensive background checks and clearance procedures in order to obtain a security clearance. At the very lowest level of classification, there is more or less (or was) a computerized background check. That would be for the first (lowest) level, granted almost carte blanche to many members of the military, etc.
But, for higher level security clearances, DOD routinely conducts extensive field background checks. A pair of Federal Agents actually visited my hometown--I know this, because one of my Father's colleagues called him to ask why federal agents were inquiring about me (and him). I was in my twenties when I underwent my initial security clearance. BTW, we moved from the town before I entered the first grade.
(My security clearance paperwork required that I list all previous addresses, from birth. But, I can't say that I ever expected that they would literally go that far back, in checking my background. Maybe they did because I was relatively young. Dunno.)
AP News just reported on XM -22 emails will not be released in the next tranche of emails/documents coming out in days, because they are classified "Top Secret."
(Some emails contained material that was classified as SAPs--special access programs--higher than Top Secret.)
OTOH, it would shock me if FSC is treated anything like the typical government contract employee, or federal employee, in this matter. We'll see.
This type of double-standard is so demoralizing to federal employees/retirees. Especially, after all the cuts that they've endured at the hands of this Administration. I can't imagine that I would ever (again) consider a federal career, after what I've witnessed for the past 7-plus years.
Thanks for this OT, Tim. My best to you, Sweetie, and your children. It is wonderful that she remains engaged (reading), in spite of everything. You both serve as a wonderful role model for dealing with great adversity.
Have a nice afternoon, Everyone!
Mollie
elinkarlsson@WordPress
"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went."--Will Rogers
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
But Mollie. This isn't so….
All well-informed Federal employees use private servers. When they go home at night and on the weekends, they post on Facebook, email lovers, friends, family, and children. They enter contests, go shopping, participate in forums and gaming, and join Match.com.
Hillary's issue from day one as SOS was that she would rarely go home. So she had to find a work around. Naturally, she didn't want to use the State Department servers to plan weddings, talk to intimates, argue with Bill, or order fresh underpants from Amazon. Logically, an SOS would get a Gmail account for that. David Petraeus did. Both Petraeus and Hillary went through their government agencies to get an Internet connection, and they both used outside servers. Condi Rice, like Petraeus, used Gmaill. Colin Powell used a private server in his home, just like Hillary did. But, none of the four, including Hillary, used a private server for government business.
So we must set that issue aside.
What we're left with refers to any individual with clearance — government worker or civilian contractor — sending or receiving classified documents through a commercial email account or a pop account on a private domaine server.
This does happen with workers, who do it either deliberately or with silly negligence. Being SOS has nothing to do with it. David Petraeus got caught doing it deliberately for his own gain from his book. Hillary got caught doing it negligently and not for financial gain, that we know of.
In Hillary's case, she may have been more on the receiving end of classified documents sent by former spook buddies. The two that I saw fit that category. David Petraeus was the sender of classified information.
This is the foundation I am working from. How does your foundation differ?
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
Hey, Pluto! Regarding,
I should have added for 'official government business.' I definitely didn't mean to infer that one should not participate in any social media, internet activity, etc., of a purely personal nature on private servers. So, I apologize for the sloppy verbiage in that sentence.
I've got to step out with 'the B' before rain comes in, but I'll be back to discuss this issue, shortly.
I'm confused that you believe that FSC did not use her 'private' server for other than personal affairs. This piece came down to my cell phone about an hour or so, ago.
Got a bit more to say on this topic. Later . . .
Postscript: Just saw your more recent comment. Hope this piece is helpful.
Mollie
elinkarlsson@WordPress
“If a dog won’t come to you after having looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience.”-- Woodrow Wilson
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Thanks Mollie. What I can't figure out is
…Where are the other 50,000 (estimated) or so emails or responses that Hillary generated in her four years as Secretary of State?
Maybe they were on her personal server. I may have missed that. All that sensitive information about heads of state are being released to the public, I guess.
More amazing is that she only saw 28 pages of classified documents in four years on the road.
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
You're welcome. BTW, I forget the link
to this piece, so here it is:
AP NewsBreak: US Declares 22 Clinton Emails 'Top Secret'
I have a feeling that we'll never know where all of her emails are/went. For a couple of months, I made a point of listening to the almost daily State Department press briefings, etc. Then I got distracted, and quit following the 'email saga.'
Regarding the other Secretaries of State, and their use of personal email accounts/servers:
And,
I've seen Colin Powell questioned on the Sunday talk shows. IIRC, Powell claimed to have occasionally used a Gmail account--not a personal server--for strictly an occasional State Department 'housekeeping,' or administrative matter. In other words, he claims to have never sent, or received, any official State Department material/documents via email.
(Obviously, I have no idea if he was telling the truth, but that's what he said on teevee, and supposedly told the State Department.)
There was also a big kerfuffle among various tech industry experts about the server's encryption certificate not being validated, purchased, or whatever (I don't remember all the details), until weeks or months after her personal server was up and running.
I've read that the aide who set up FSC's server--which replaced WJC's smaller server after it was determined that it couldn't handle the SOS's traffic--had been an aide to WJC. During that time, the aide's duties were not even related to servers, or server technology.
Whew!
Mollie
elinkarlsson@WordPress
"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went."--Will Rogers
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Thanks so much, Mollie.
Clearly, I need to rethink this whole thing. I may have "mis-navigated".
I so much appreciate this exchange. Your comments were very interesting to me.
The links were great and you rock.
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
The way I understood it
was Hillary DID use her State Dept business. It is also my understanding that use of a private server was not against any government regulations and that previous govt. Secretaries had done so also. The issue at hand is were secret documents sent to and from her private unsecured server. This issue is that the server was not secured and that sensitive documents were transmitted to and from it.
I personally believe that NO government official should be allowed to use a private server for any purpose. Any emails or other personal correspondence can occur via a personal smart phone.
I worked in local government and every document we ever created or received was considered part of a permanent public record. In the case of using a private server, Clinton bypassed the public records issue. Even top secret documents are part of the public record even if we cannot see them. This is why I am so offended by her use of a private server for her convenience.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
I can't imagine how it would be allowed
for a government official to use a private server for any professional email exchanges. And if such is allowed. it's mind boggling to me of how the regulations would be of such kind that this is legal and allowed.. If it's an unsecured server and she didn't have a professional to manage that server, I would think that she is ... well yes, somehow not as smart as I would have guessed her to be. At least it seems to be a sloppy way of conducting her business.
mimi, no government official has been caught
…using a private server for official business. Not in recent history.
Hillary Clinton did not get caught using a private server for official business. As far as I know from my research, she NEVER did that. And she hasn't been accused of that.
Just to be clear.
Thanks for answering my most important question, however. You assumed the opposite of truth because that is the misinformation you received through the US media. Directly or indirectly.
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
I must correct myself, sorry.
This goes to the first part of my unanswered question post.
Hillary has always used a State Department email account. For example, she reviews dozens of classified documents each week, and I'm sure writes many more highly classified communications throughout related agencies. Additionally, she reports on her private conversations with leaders throughout the world, what are all highly confidential. Reportedly, emails were exchanged during the Benghazi incident. These account for many of thousands of top secret emails. None of these are part of the email on her private server. They would not be released to the public if they were. And only 30 or so will be held back. Those held back were often part of long email chains that were forwarded to her on her personal server.
That's why my question refers to her State Department server. The huge bulk of her classified work product is not on her personal server. So, there must be an official communications channel.
So, I must confess I brought this up because I am confused about the fact that this is not discussed in context in the media.
I had no idea when I started this thread that there would be breaking news about this later today. Sorry if my frustration over my own lack of information rang a imperious tone.
Any insights would be appreciated. Thanks all.
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
And I must apologize, because I wasn't following
the story, because I never thought I would get clarity about it. But from what I understand from this The State Department: Hillary Clinton’s email correspondence contained ‘top secret’ material is that at least she received emails on her private server that were from senders, who belonged to her circle of advisers, including Obama himself. If she answered out of convenience directly to those email from her private server, she at least has sloppily allowed "official business emails" to go through her private server. I believe she didn't do that on purpose, but out of convenience and not thinking it through.
I guess her personal relations are so intertwined with her professional relations as SOS and through the Clinton Foundation that she simply, not maliciously, but sloppily mishandled the strict separation of private and professional emails. She pays for that, because it's clear that it is abused for political gain by her political opponents (Republicans at least) at this point in time.
But I really just have said what I believe to be the case, not what has been proven by facts. Sorry for that, Pluto, I know, you know so much more and have so much better research skills. I haven't even researched this issue. In other words, who cares for her damn emails, right? I just think a SOS should care about her damn emails herself diligently.
You are right, mimi.
The bottom line is mindfulness and the ability to anticipate the risk and outcome of your actions.
This time the adversity landed back in her court.
Wish Libya had done the same.
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
I don't know pluto
but just from the whiff of smoke blowing off this I think she did use it for more then personal stuff. Lot's of Sidney's advice and weirdness also the Clinton Foundation seems to be knee deep in the state departments financial dealings So maybe not classified but definitely dicey dealings. Where does the line between The State Department 'national security' and the transnational interest's of big players like Qatar, HBCB, Goldman Sachs, sweat shops in Haiti end or begin? It's hard to tell whats up with all these quasi government foundations, think tanks, the Defense Deptartment and diplomatic negotiations and how they are o9fficaln or personal. Me I think having your server in the bathroom while conducting business supposedly official for the state department and yet using it to chit chat with the players od mass destruction is very shadey. Regardless of what the upside down, freaking out, the Republican loonies decides they can use get her. None of this bs. coming out of DC has a damn thing to do with what these assholes are up to. In fighting between the factions in DC that are up to no good not matter where they keep their servers
And, a 'personal' server circumvented the requirement
"that officials’ correspondence be retained as part of the agency’s record."
Remember, since she never used an official State Department account, we must 'take her at her word' that she has offered up all of the pertinent official emails that she sent/received during her tenure (that dealt with State Department business).
Just heard that FSC is putting together a shadow "National Security Council." (on XM) It was on a program 'teaser.' More later, if it's interesting.
Mollie
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.