Just How Spiteful Are Hillary Supporters?

If these 2 comments are any indication, well....just see for yourself.

hopefully your disabled ass won't last the better part of two years. 

And this one is a personal favorite of mine.

I look forward to seeing your stupid smug attitude destroyed when you face the reality of a Trump presidency with the GOP in control of congress and the Supreme Court. America is about to change in ways that were once unimaginable. This is our Hitler moment, you brought it on, and you will live with it for the rest of your life

The comments in question come from this video:

Because of course we Millennials are to blame for Trumpy Boy's ascendance to the Presidency. It couldn't have jack about dick to do with the fact that Trumpy Boy is just the natural conclusion of decades of suppression with regards to political discourse, rampant neglect on the issues of the environment, income inequality, economic royalism and corporate rule, oh no. It's because we didn't 'vote'. Ha!

Let me just end this with my opening comment in the thread of the video.

Okay, Johnny. You wanna play this game? Fine. I'm not impressed by your generation, either. In fact, your generation can kiss my ass as far as your condescending lectures are concerned.

Your generation did more damage to this country than ours ever could. You destroyed the middle class, labor unions, the environment, political discourse, journalism and everything else you could get your hands on while moralizing and criminalizing everything else. Including dissent. And you're still doing it now.

So here's an idea: Instead of looking down your fuckin' nose at us and wagging your finger, why not just accept the fact that the candidate you supported sucked just as bad as the walking hairpiece and be done with it? Oh, that's right. That would actually require your generation to accept responsibility too.

Now, I'm well aware that not all older folks think that way about us and I don't think this way about all older folks. I'm just sick of everybody playing the blame game.

See ya around,

Aspie

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link but this time I did. What an asshole. He apparently learned nothing during all his days in the 60's, did he? He admits he sounds like his parents and he damned sure does. Same empty platitudes, same condescending attitudes, all the things you do NOT use to address those younger than you when trying to make a point or even get them to listen. He can blame whoever he needs to, he's not any more capable of looking in a mirror than a Tea Bag Repugnant. Or a Democrat who still wants to blame anyone but their shitty ass candidate for the Rump.

I like your response. As for the asshat who said because you're disabled you "hopefully won't last two years", he or she best pray that nothing really bad ever happens to them, ending up with a disability doesn't depend on brains or money but the luck of the draw IMO. Dumbass.

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Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

The Aspie Corner's picture

So trust me, I can take it. As for the guy in the video, he claims to support progressive views and yet he posts something like this. Certainly head desk worthy.

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Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.

Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.

detroitmechworks's picture

But hey, you know... Gen X...

We were always slackers who did nothing for our country and were to be shunted to the side in favor of our children, the Millennials, who were the grandchildren and were poised to be the inheritors of the boomer's great mission. (Media narrative, as I shouldn't have to point out, but will for the few that think I believe this shit.)

And then they went and didn't vote for a boomer in large enough numbers to install the chosen one. HOW DARE THEY!

Clearly they're spoiled children who don't know what's good for them...

Just the media playing their designated villain game again. Been on the receiving end of that shit to know their attention will dry up soon. Until of course there's another generational disagreement at which point they'll start in with the stereotypes.

Lucky I'm a slacker they don't give a shit about so can comfortably ignore their crap.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

The Aspie Corner's picture

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Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.

Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.

edg's picture

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Cassiodorus's picture

So yeah.

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"The future is inside us/ It's not somewhere else." -- Radiohead

Doesn't that make him, like 70? Where was the ageist commentary against Trump? Or doesn't this matter with fast--talking billionaire con-men and only with, for example, a highly experienced Democratic socialist Mayor/Congressman/Senator who has a record of having improved the lives of many and has devoted his life to fighting for democracy and the most vulnerable - rather than for ripping the more vulnerable off for higher personal profits, as with Trump?

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

And their fellow New Democrat, Obama, seems to be Gen X.

The point is going over my head, though.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

You're not Gen X if you can remember when the Beatles were still putting out new albums.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

and theories about what you hear if you play the record backwards, and why ???is barefoot on the ???.

This guy is clearly a burned out loser if he feels superior to millenials who watched as his generation allowed Clinton to steal the D Primary...and now he sits on the fence hoping the coronation will yet happen after the recount.

I find no small amount of humor, or disgust, at all the calls for investigating Tump's conflicts, etc., after ignoring the behavior of Slick Willy and his aspiring Bride over the last 25 years.

Yes folks... Washjington DC and the Ruling Class are a sewer in, and of themselves...and the millenials know shit when they smell it

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The Generation X Report, a quarterly research report from The Longitudinal Study of American Youth, a National Science Foundation study conducted at the University of Michigan, defines Generation X as those born between 1961–1981.[16] Generation X, a six-part 2016 documentary series produced by National Geographic, also uses a1961–1981 birth range.[17][18] PricewaterhouseCoopers, a multinational professional services network headquartered in London, describes Generation X employees as those born from the early 1960s to the early 1980s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_X

As I said, it's not an exact science. http://caucus99percent.com/comment/219306#comment-219306

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Lenzabi's picture

That plants my 52yr old ass as a Gen-X voter, and I went for Bernie then Jill.

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So long, and thanks for all the fish

blazinAZ's picture

and I voted the same way you did this year.

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There is no justice in America, but it is the fight for justice that sustains you.
--Amiri Baraka

Lenzabi's picture

Good company then! I know the different articles place the gens at odd times, so I am full on Gen-X, or a Boomer, or a Boomer-X, I wish they could make up their minds!

But yes, so many people of all gens wanted real change, but instead they showed us we get what they want to serve us, like those school cafeteria lunches or the army meals, plopped on our trays and get stuck no matter how we may hate what they plopped from the slop spoon to the tray.

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So long, and thanks for all the fish

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

like those school cafeteria lunches or the army meals, plopped on our trays and get stuck no matter how we may hate what they plopped from the slop spoon to the tray

.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

But the point of Gen X is that we're NOT part of the sixties generation. If you're old enough to remember Johnson as President, you're not a Gen-Xer. If you're old enough to have gotten excited, as a kid, over the release of Abbey Road, you're not a Gen-X-er. The sensible line, culturally and historically, would be drawn at 1965.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Us folks in the '61 to '64 window are usually viewed as "on the cusp"; but certainly we were still considered boomers right up to the moment when the social scientists first came up with the concept of Gen X.

Regardless, "Abbey Road" has got to be some kind of dividing line. Our babysitter brought it to our house, and we listened to it over and over and over. When I was in junior high, the most popular albums amongst my friends and me, all of whom had been too young to actually buy any of the original Beatles albums, were the awesome "Red Album" and "Blue Album" greatest hits collections.

Another marker might be the moon landing -- if you're old enough to really remember watching that live on TV, to have understood at some level the significance of it -- then you're tied to the boomer generation in a way that people younger than you are not.

A more basic dividing line is this: If your parents are boomers, you're probably Gen X or Gen Y. If your parents are too old to be boomers, you're probably not a "cultural" Gen X'r, even if you're born in the late 60s -- especially if your parents are old enough to remember VE day. If you remember when your family replaced the black and white TV with a color set -- you're probably a Boomer. If you remember when your family "got cable", you're probably a boomer. If you saw Jaws or Holy Grail in the theater during their first runs, you're probably a boomer. If you learned to play Risk with wooden pieces -- you're probably a boomer. If your first computer program was written on punchcards or paper tape, you're probably a boomer.

The thing is, the "Baby Boom" was originally a concept purely about the demographics of birthrate. Culturally, kids born anywhere from 42-45 were raised in the Boom culture. As children, they enjoyed the explosion in postwar material wealth. They campaigned for JFK in 1960, and were still in college when he was assassinated -- they were the vanguard of the youth-centric culture and economy that we associate with the "Boomers".

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

born 1961 but I consider at least my mother as part of that so called greatest generation. And I remember well the first moon landing, watching on black and white sitting in my uncle's lap. The Beatles I wasn't ever as into, but I didn't have older siblings and my parents were staunch righties - Dad's favorite was Glenn Miller....

I was obviously too young for the 60's but something in that always resonated with me and I used to wish I had been born earlier. Probably had a lot to do with normal childhood rebellion of all things parental, but then I've always identified more with the Left. I'm told I once said to my grandmother when I found out they were all Republicans that I thought only rich people were Republicans - she right away looked at my mother and said "I think she's a Liberal." My mother was born 1928 and all they ever talked about was how poor they were during the Depression, so I thought that was a pretty natural question on my part. And while they professed a hatred for FDR, both my grandparents and mother were happy as clams collecting THEIR Social Security and Medicare. And that blazing hypocrisy is what I really can't stand about most of the Right wing. Of course, the professed "Left" wing is just as bad, just took me a while to see that.

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Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

GreatLakeSailor's picture

I watched Captain Kangaroo cover the moon landing in great detail. To this day I'm a bit of a NASA/space geek.

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Compensated Spokes Model for Big Poor.

My folks didn't replace the black and white until 1978. One of the drawbacks of growing up where I did was we got 1 tv channel. TV wasn't a very big part of life.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

...... black-and-white or color, still had tubes in the back, and you yourself took those tubes down to the neighborhood hardware store to test them in the magic Hickok machine as the first line of defense when the set broke down, you're a boomer.

And an analog electronics geek.

Wink

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

lotlizard's picture

Were your parents boomers. That creates a crossover in the early 60s. I was born in 1961. My Teddy bear was named Vote for Johnson, yes really. My first memory is Kennedy being asassinated in living black and white. My outlook on life, attitudes, opinions and such are far different from my cousins 8 and 10 years older more like my younger cousins but not there either.

Additionally I come from a town with a lot of large catholic families that had 8 to 15 children if the younger ones were my age they tended the direction of the boomers. If they were the oldest it was the opposite.

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lunachickie's picture

making shit up? As long as I can remember, the Baby Boom time period was considered to be from 1946-1964, from numerous sources.

I'm not arguing for arguments sake, and I have no hostility in any of this reply. But honestly, scads of recorded history, written long before that Wiki link was posted (by some anonymous schlub), people born between 1962 and 1964 have more or less been considered the "tail enders" of the Baby Boom.

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up to the early 90s, when Coupland wrote his book and Strauss and Howe arrogantly reassigned everyone in the 61-64 group to their "13th Generation". the problem is, they did that based as much on self-identification of the group as anything else, and their own cultural reactionaryism played a big part as well. i can tell you straight up, there's an enormous difference in attitudes between myself and my peers and the folks who came up just 3 or 4 years after us, but also between ourselves and those a few years older.

i think that one of the most significant cultural phenomena that sets folks in the 60-65 window apart from our predecessors and successors, is that we were adolescents when the advances of 60s feminism became manifest in educational culture. a small group of guys in the year ahead of me at my junior high were the first I had ever heard of who asked (and were permitted) to take "home ec" -- specifically, the cooking class, now typically titled "culinary arts"; similarly, two girls in my grade were the first I ever knew of who took a shop class (graphic arts). we actually watched the rules of gender norms -- both the formal, written rules, and the informal conventions -- being rewritten for us (and even by us) at the exact time that we were in the middle of that period of sexual maturation and learning how to "relate" to the "other half". my older sister's best friend was the first woman i had ever heard of who joined the Forces as a "soldier" (though not yet in a combat role -- nonetheless, 1979 was the year that Canada's military colleges began to accept women as cadets).

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

PriceRip's picture

          If we have learned nothing else in the past 60 years, learn this! Having lived through it all I can say: Homogeneity is not a characteristic of any identifiable subset of humans.

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blazinAZ's picture

Several ppl in my life were born in 1965 or a bit after. They all see themselves as Gen X, and so do I. Beatles were still putting out new albums until 1970, which I think is unquestionably GenX.

I don't think this is a good metric, even tho it's catchy. Smile

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There is no justice in America, but it is the fight for justice that sustains you.
--Amiri Baraka

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

And somebody born in 65--ok, maybe they would have been aware, at 5 years old, of the release of Let it Be in 1970. So yeah, the very oldest GenXer might have been aware of the very last Beatles album being released.

What I'm arguing for is that the essence of Gen X is that it is not the 60s generation. Therefore pushing it back to 1960 or 61 doesn't make any sense. There's a lot of difference, culturally and historically, between being born in 60 or 61 and being born in 65, sort of like there's a lot of difference between being born in 1943 and being born in 1946. It's all about what's happening historically at the time.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

came out. In fact, that might serve as the more significant Beatles demarcation -- not, Do you remember the Beatles breaking up, but Did you care when the Beatles broke up? And did you care about the occasional rumors that they might get back together? Did you care when Lennon was shot?

The most popular slow-dance song at my Junior High dances, the last song played, was invariably the six and a half minute epic, Hey Jude. Think about that: 13-year-olds slow-dancing to a song that had been released when they were 6.

Strauss and Howe reassigned us because we were emphatically not hippies. Of course, neither were most boomers -- but we not only were not hippies, we thought of them as something that came before us, and that was gone before we reached college. As a college acquaintance of mine once said to me, and not very nicely: "Why do you have long hair? It isn't fashionable any more, you know!" Whereas, I thought the whole point of the 60s was that it didn't matter any more what was or was not fashionable -- we all got to grow our hair however we wanted, and wear whatever we wanted, without worrying that we'd be ostracized or classified.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

edg's picture

detroitmechworks wrote "they went and didn't vote for a boomer in large enough numbers". I pointed out that Trump is a Boomer, too. As are Stein and Johnson. There was no non-boomer choice among the top candidates.

Nothing to get worked up about, Henry. I was just pointing out an inconsistency in dmw's comment.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

folks born between 1960 and 64 often seem sort of in-between to me.

But if people want to claim him as a Gen X-er, I guess he's the first Gen X President. And it doesn't look like we're gonna get another one for a while, unless we get Chelsea 2020.

Chelsea 2020 isn't something I'm looking forward to. Neither would Ryan 2020--he's probably the most powerful legit GenXer in federal politics right now. Which means we managed to produce a class-A creep as our vanguard.

It's not that the generational thing is meaningless, but it's not the most important thing to me. The most important political fact is corruption. The fact that the corruption has largely arisen while three generations hold on hard to power and don't allow much to cycle downward to younger people is less important to me--

but it's not like I don't care at all. Because honestly, it really sucks to have things already this fucked up by the time you get old enough to do something about it. It sucks to have your entire generation's choices more or less gone before you can make any.

And if, after that, older people take it upon themselves to scold your generation--or the next--that can be really irritating!

But it's still less important than the primary fact of corrupt disaster capitalism.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

ThoughtfulVoter's picture

I personally could not stomach another Clinton run for president, but the personal aside, does anyone realistically believe that Chelsea has any political potential?

There is no driving passion, no dynamic leadership persona, no concern for fellow Americans.

Why do we think she would represent us or work hard for us?

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Yeah, Chelsea's loser parents are nudging Nita Lowey from her safe Westchester seat so Chelsea can get Clinton tentacles back on the Up Ladder. Lots of mommie and daddy's friends in that district (no poors). But, don't see Chelsea rising beyond that. Too many WikiLeaks emails out there (lova ya, Julian) on Chelsea as "head" of Clinton Foundation. Besides, mom bamboozled voters for too long with Her non-accomplishments for the same to succeed with loser Chelsea. I'd like to see them pull it off, hoping the Clinton Foundation will rise again.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

But I like your totally chill attitude.

LOL

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

detroitmechworks's picture

When my kids were playing Spyro, I WOULD do that character impression because it drove them crazy. Smile

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

don't worry, they more or less did the same shit to us. Add in some stuff about how horribly conservative we are, like we were the ones who elected Nixon twice and Reagan twice.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Amanda Matthews's picture

the long hair, the attitude that they weren't going to put up with their lies and wars, they were absolutely despised, beaten, and at Kent State, young kids were murdered.

TPTB hated our music, they hated the fact that we weren't pliant and politically ignorant (for the most part), and because we knew how to really hit the streets and let our displeasure be shown. TPTB turned the word Peacenik into an ugly slur. It was in a par with a few of the 'establishment's' other faves, like commie and pinko. Why so many of us have turned out like we said we never would is something I really cannot understand. (I will say though that if the cops had the military equipment then that they have now, we'd probably still be fighting in Vietnam.)

P.S. Has anyone else noticed that they haven't turned water canons and other technology on the kids in Portland, Seattle, etc., but TPTB are brutalizing those protesting the ND Access Pipeline? NOT that I think those idiots trying to overturn the election deserve to be abused, but what makes them different than people trying to protect their land and the water under it? Unless it's because those tools still trying to put Clinton in the White House won't really accomplish anything, but the Water Protecters will cost the builders of the NDAPL billions. Those people in ND are 21st century American Heroes and Heroines!

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

PriceRip's picture

          I am still that kid, even if I don't look it anymore.

Why so many of us have turned out like we said we never would · · ·

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if you have to be like that.

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PriceRip's picture

          Sorry, but your comment seems to be in response to mine about still being an active, vital agent of change, with . . .

long hair, the attitude that they weren't going to put up with their lies and wars, they were absolutely despised, beaten, and at Kent State, young kids were murdered.

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He is of the "My Generation" generation. aw.

Then these -

Why so many of us have turned out like we said we never would ·

In better English- " if it means one has to be like that".

What I get for making fun of somebody - he needed no help.

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PriceRip's picture

          Just for the record I agree, and until that (to the right) photo was taken I didn't see how I was going to make it past 35 years old. The thought of winding up like that guy scares the hell out of me. So, if I ever become that, please just shoot me, or lure me into a dead air space.

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Just goes to show who is really pulling the strings, doesn't it???

Don't get in the way of the Oil Economy... because they control the MIC

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our re-election of GWB...WTF were we thinking there??

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he was a war time incumbent. US voters have never ousted a war time incumbent CIC. And not merely an "orderly" declared war somewhere overseas war time incumbent, but a "Holy crap! Twenty or so random nuts attacked Manhattan! We've never seen anything like this before!" And don't forget release of that Osama video shortly before the election and after all those orange and red alerts and the false rumors that the video showed Osama telling us to vote Bush out of office.

And what do you mean "we?"

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Steven D's picture

stole Ohio.

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"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott

http://www.salon.com/2006/06/03/kennedy_39/

It's hard to justify Kerry's not contesting if evidence of theft existed. IMO, Kerry wanted to be President Kennedy all his life, much as Clinton said he (Clinton) did after meeting JFK. I think that's why Kerry enlisted in the Navy, why he helped people believe he was Irish Catholic, why he swung from uber liberal anti war protestor when that was the politically popular thing to be, to founding member of the Senate New Democrat Caucus after Clinton's success, etc. In any event, he certainly wanted to be President Elect Kerry in 2004. Yet, after spending all that time and money preparing to run and running, he didn't contest Ohio, after initially saying he would contest. As ambitious and rich as he was, he had to have had a reason to pull back.

Whatever, happened, I could not be more over Democratic politicians claiming every Presidential election Democrats lose is crooked and every one Democrats win is on the up and up. Yet, never doing anything about their claims of stolen elections. Waxman's committee held hearings proving how easy it was to rig machines. What legislation came of that? Zip. Besides, it's not as though Democrats don't try to steal elections, too.

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lunachickie's picture

And how Obama is trying to stand down, telling Hillary to get over it and move on, in so many words. And how Hillary stood down, except she didn't, because that nice Green Party lady is willing to go to the mat, and why shouldn't we help her?

I keep reading they're going to try doing the recount so they can "take Wisconsin, PA and (whatever the other state is) out of the Electoral College by insisting that the EC move forward on the appointed day. The allegation is that with those three states not voting, Clinton only needs to flip 8 remaining electors and she's in.

And that's bullshit. I keep trying in my head to discount this--my recollection of 2000 was that Team Florida had to be done by 12/13/00 with any recounts, so the electors could vote on time. Period. No exceptions. What's different now besides desire and will to void Trump and install Clinton? The law is the law. There's no "delaying" or "keeping states from the EC voting", I'm flat out calling bullshit on that unless there's a reasonable refutation my eyeballs haven't read yet...

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we just make them co-presidents. We tether them together with 10 ft of cable for the next 4 years. They deserve each other and who knows, maybe the age old question would be answered, "do 2 half wits make a wit?"

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to the Supreme Court. There's no appeal from a Supreme Court decision. Gore had as much of a recount as time allowed. He just didn't get an extension of the time specified in the Constitution for the electoral college to convene because...um, The Constitution of the United States.

Gore did everything he possibly could have done. There is no comparison with Kerry saying for a minute that he might seek a recount in Ohio, then changing his mind and doing zero. It's very difficult for me to believe that someone with tons of ambition and tons $$$ spends years trying to become POTUS, then just changes his mind about seeking a recount for no good reason whatever. When asked at around that time why he did not seek one, Kerry replied, "I didn't want to look like a bad sport." Give me a break.

It wasn't a school yard game of volleyball that was at stake, but the fate of America--and therefore other nations--as well as untold dollars and effort by not only Kerry and Teresa, but paid staffers and thousands of volunteers. Not to mention Kerry's own ambition, which, IMO, was almost lifelong. BSMA. Bad sport, my a$$.

Kerry did not seek the recount because he was certain he lost. He may have been wrong, but he was certain. And he didn't want to admit it. No one just shrugs after losing a Presidential general campaign because of fearing to "look" like a bad sport, unless he knew from day one that he had no chance of winning. The margin for the entire state was relatively small but it was over 2%. More telling, IMO: Kerry lost almost every county in the state. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_Ohi...

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lunachickie's picture

but we'll never agree on Al Gore. Lots of folks believe he stood down and always will. But don't let my opinion of that deter you from considering what matters now, please! We're still no closer to an answer to the question "What's different about now, that talk is about three states 'Not Making the Electoral College voting", and making it sound like that's normal, when it's not?

Am I mis-remembering this?

Team Florida had to be done by 12/13/00 with any recounts, so the electors could vote on time. Period. No exceptions.

When you said this:

Gore had as much of a recount as time allowed. He just didn't get an extension of the time specified in the Constitution for the electoral college to convene because...um, The Constitution of the United States.

it made me think my memory was correct. So how the hell do three states sit it out? That's bullshit and unconstitutional, if I'm reading you correctly, and I absolutely agree with you there. If they can't do that, then someone is either trying to pull a fast one--still--or else this whole recount thing is some kind of noise-making, red-herring, bullshit-time-wasting exercise.

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and in-actions. I didn't vote for GWB either time, but do claim to be an American...so...guilty by association

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is usually understood to be a rhetorical question, meaning something like "Even though you used the plural, I am disassociating myself from what you said."

As for me, I did everything I knew to do to make sure Bush did not win. I didn't vote for Bush. I campaigned against Bush to anyone who would listen, I donated to Kerry. I also stood on line in the rain for four hours to vote for Kerry. So, taking responsibility for my own actions is exactly what I am doing when I disassociate myself from responsibility for Bush's re election.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

from voting in FL and OH, we could steal this election too.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

That's what the blame game does.

We can't do shit until we unite enough to form a critical mass.

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Raggedy Ann's picture

It's been working for decades. I hope the millennials will be the change we need to see and stop this madness. I'll join them. I protested in the streets back in the day, and I continue protesting TPTB, in my world, in my own way today. The people must be willing to unite and rise up.

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

PriceRip's picture

Now, I'm well aware that not all older folks think that way about us and I don't think this way about all older folks. I'm just sick of everybody playing the blame game.

          I disavow any connection to the idiots of the world (or whatever designation works), for I am not one of them.

          I, for one, did not watch the video. If I had watched it I would not have been able to type this as my head would have exploded just remembering what was in the video.

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detroitmechworks's picture

The Boomers that we don't want on our side have already rejected it as a horrid reminder of a past they left behind to pursue wealth in the 80s.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

Bisbonian's picture

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

PriceRip's picture

          <h1>&#8486;</h1> One morning in the fresh snow on the Quad near the administration building I marked out the symbol for resistance.

          <h1>&#9774;</h1> This would have been good, as well.

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riverlover's picture

as the jocks and kegger party crowd in HS. Or the prayer group ones. I am sorry to offend any who saw the light and turned left. The druggies (might have been only marijuana) were more alternative. And many never lost it all, and may still be suggestible.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

peeled off a lot of new left "radicals".

Also the civil rights face of the movement was split in middle 60's when "black only" became the rule at CORE, SNC, etc. etc.

By 1975 the revolution party was over for many longhairs who were now mid-20's.

So there was, for example, almost no U.S. student support for Iranian students opposed to loathsome Shah.

Edit: Also employers began to drug test, so many left pot and become juicers.

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riverlover's picture

by1972 I was in college, busy in my own development. And then I checked out for a few decades of career, relationship, moving and house-building and kids. I had more luck with interaction in gay groups in college than Blacks. In organizations, anyway.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

well have begun then. I've read 60s radicals saying that their failure to vote Dem because of their disgust with the war was a mistake because they gave the nation Nixon.

If Dem LOTE voting began then, it's really ironic. A big reason Nixon won was Johnson forbade Humphrey to criticize Johnson's foreign policy and Humphrey obeyed. Meanwhile, while campaigning, Nixon said he knew how to end the war honorably. So, many people thought they were voting for the Republican guy who would end the Vietnam War vs. the Democratic guy who was part of the administration that had escalated it and lied to Americans about it. And Nixon still had reflected Eisenhower glow. Besides, he was very smart and ruthless.

Anyway, buyer's remorse seems to have been abundant among 60s radicals when Nixon won.

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On top of tying Humphrey to the war and Johnson, the left treated the country to the Days of Rage at the 1968 convention in Chicago.

[Edit. my mistake. Days of Rage were October1969. But the people who called for the Days of Rage a year later were in SDS leadership in 1968 . There was a "bring the war home" manifesto right after convention.]

That really excited the Silent Majority and helped to get out the Republican vote.

Everybody hated hippies by this time, and violent political hippies were were beyond tolerance.
Humphrey got credit for all this, while Nixon smiled.
There were provocateurs there, but the left had been promising violence for months. It was going to happen.

Nixon was such a phony that people began to catch on near the end of campaign and HHH came on, falling just short. I think the trend said one more week might have done it. Apparently he was a decent man, but we just would not let him up.

I was too young to vote at the time, but remember feeling the "new left" had f****d up and helped Nixon win.
We expressed unrelenting hatred and contempt for Humphrey that he probably did not deserve.
I do feel bad about that.

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to violence during the 1968 convention. For example:

Meanwhile, on the streets of Chicago, several thousand anti-war protesters gathered to show their support for McCarthy and the U.S. withdrawal of troops from Vietnam. Chicago Mayor Richard Daley deployed 12,000 police officers and called in another 15,000 state and federal officers to contain the protesters. The situation then rapidly spiraled out of control, with the policemen severely beating and gassing the demonstrators, as well as newsmen and doctors who had come to help.

The ensuing riot, known as the “Battle of Michigan Avenue,” was caught on television, and sparked a large-scale change in American society. For the first time, many Americans came out in virulent opposition to the Vietnam War, which they had begun to feel was pointless and wrongheaded. No longer would people give the national government unrestrained power to pursue its Cold War policies at the expense of the safety of U.S. citizens.

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/protests-at-democratic-nation...

I don't think history.com is a radical website. Typically, it's the right that loves to give us its view of history, but that's another issue.

See also things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Democratic_National_Convention#Dan_Ra...

Daley had not wanted protestors in Chicago, refused permits and otherwise acted more like a mob boss than a party boss, instruction the police and troops to treat demonstrators accordingly.

It's difficult for me to imagine that hippie kids whose slogan had "Stay clean for Gene" (McCarthy) (giving up drugs and booze so they could help elect an anti-war candidate) were the ones who started violence in what were intended to be peaceful demonstrations. Much as it was not the OWS demonstrators who started violence in thos demonstrations. The 1968 demonstrators who were getting beaten in Chicago famously chanted "The Whole World is Watching," which seems to me inconsistent with the idea that anti-war demonstrators began the violence.

And what helped Nixon win, IMO, was what my prior post said, on the Democratic side, escalation of the Vietnam War, resentment of the draft, lying about the Vietnam War, etc. and, on the Nixon side, the statement that he knew how to end the war "with honor" and he had the reflected glow of the Eisenhower administration. Eisenhower, of course, was seen as knowledgeable about war, as well as a President who knew how to make the country prosperous during peace time. (Destroying manufacturing capability in Germany and Japan during World War II accounted for a lot of that post-war prosperity, of course, but that's a different story, too.)

I guess it all depends on which prism one looks through.

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That occurred a year in Chicago a year later. I don't think we are in contradiction, though.
All kinds went to Chicago. There were "Clean for Gene" people there, but extreme SDS was there too.
And cop provocateurs. Also Gene's candidacy was over, MLK, RFK, were dead. It was not a happy time.

My understanding was that there would be trouble, and that you should be ready to fight the police if you went.
The police in Houston would beat me up for free, so I just stayed home.

On August 28, 1968, around 10,000 protesters gathered in Grant Park for the demonstration. At approximately 3:30 p.m., a young man lowered the American flag that was there.[10] The police broke through the crowd and began beating the young man, while the crowd pelted the police with food, rocks, and chunks of concrete.[24] The chants of some of the protesters shifted from "hell no, we won't go" to "pigs are whores".[25]

This was not "put a flower in your hair". The people who said "bring the war home" just two months later had been calling for violence for a while, and it was ramping up. Nothing else had worked- people were scared and frustrated. (imo)
Of course I do not defend Daley or the Chicago police. For what it's worth:

After the Chicago protests, the demonstrators believed the majority of Americans would side with them over what had happened in Chicago, especially because of police behavior. The controversy over the war in Vietnam overshadowed their cause.[14] Daley shared he had received 135,000 letters supporting his actions and only 5,000 condemning them. Public opinion polls demonstrated that the majority of Americans supported the Mayor's tactics.[31] It was often commented through the popular media that on that evening, America decided to vote for Nixon.

This was the point of my first comment, and squares with my memory. thx.

Edit. After stuff broke out,Tom Hayden of SDS told the crowd to leave the park, where demonstration was legal and go into the streets in violation of law. I think everybody got pretty much what they wanted except Humphrey wing of DP.

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coutnry to violence at the 1968 convention, rather than Mayor Daley, we are in contradiction.

But, civil disagreement on issues is a not a problem for me or I would not post on message boards. Good people will not agree with each other in every particular.

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You disagree with my saying the left "treated the public" to the violence, since the police struck the first blows.
I can see that.
My response is that many protestors went there to fight. All those chunks of concrete did not appear by magic. The lowering of the flag in the park was a provocation to the police, probably illegal. The cops reacted as expected. Everyone knew who the Chicago police were, and who Daley was.

My own opinion, based on what I heard in SDS meetings and saw in the radical press leading up to the convention is that an SDS faction( and others) went there with the intention of provoking a police riot. There were undercover federal police provocateurs there also. It only took lowering the flag, but there would have been more until the police went off. Hayden was quick to put it into the street where there had to be a fight from that point on. As I said above, I think everyone involved got pretty much what they wanted except Humphrey.

As the last quote from your own source said- this was the night America decided to vote for Nixon. That was my main point, really. Regardless of intent, the demonstrations in Chicago held by the left ultimately worked for Nixon. Some thought it was the decisive event in campaign. This was just on top of everything you mentioned.

If my personal prism is important- at the time considered myself a "committed radical". (LOL)
I was becoming concerned with what I felt was a recent turn to violence which disguised a lack of ideas from our "leaders". That is why I wanted no part of Chicago, and stayed home.

Thx. Read your posts with interest.

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I didn't expect from Hillary, including the Treasury Secretary from Goldman-Sachs.

Oh, wait, there is something. I don't think Hillary would badger Carrier not to move those 1400 jobs to Mexico. Or threaten parent UTC with withholding defense contracts. So Trump is already one up on Hillary.

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

dervish's picture

So many Dems are wringing their hands with disappointment at Trump's policies and nominees, but it's not as if this is the very first time ever that criminals have received Govt. appointments, this is not new.

Not only would Hillary have appointed similar criminals, but Obama hasn't really achieved much either these past 8 years. How many bankers did he indict post 2008? How clean is his administration really? Trump isn't dramatically different than business as usual for the last 30 odd years or so. If we avoid a major war, his administration will be a marked improvement over the alternative.

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"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

Dhyerwolf's picture

We can have pro-corporate policies while throwing identity scraps to minorities and women (kind of...after all, Hillary's history included pushing things that were bad for nearly every racial minority and LGBT) or we can have pro-corporate policies while being antagonistic to minorities and women. For all the furors about Trump's Wall Street picks, Trump's charter school picks, Trump's horribly EPA choices, etc...there's generally an equivalent in the Obama administration. Sessions and Bannon are the only ones that I've found truly offensive so far.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

rather than spreading it--nobody's blaming you for the sins of your contemporaries who have drunk the Koolaid, some of whom are obnoxious, and some who make me really damned sad, because there's nothing worse than watching people you've admired your whole life swallow a bunch of lies.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Amanda Matthews's picture

us ended up supporting what we clearly knew was hateful, harmful, immoral, and downright criminal.

Money, ot rather the love of money, does seem to do some really awful things to some (many?) people.

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

Raggedy Ann's picture

it has a lot to do with credit. Purchasing with credit.

Here is the scenario: How do we make the boomers think they are becoming wealthy like the 1%? Give them the ability to purchase whatever their hearts desire, immediately, on credit. They will then become slaves to their jobs to pay off their credit cards, however we will continue to entice them to buy, buy, buy, go on vacations of their dreams, send their kids to the schools of their dreams, and on and on. We'll also let wages stagnate so that they can't really pay off that debt.

The boomers fell for it and instead of paying attention to what was happening, the co-option of our democracy, they were busy shopping, vacationing, and paying off their debt. When they looked up from the trough, Trump was President-elect. Horrors! What happened?

Paying attention is important. They don't want us paying attention. We might end up resisting their little plan.

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

is that if one chose to not play the game of chasing the almighty buck, chose to live simply, and within their means, we were ridiculed, dismissed as lesser persons.
My generation, the Boomers, are those who have abandoned principle, left behind, or ignored the positive idealism, and enthusiasm that was our youth and our rebellion against the status quo. Look where that got us...not only financially , but also morally bankrupt.
The "Swamp" will only be drained when we revolt and blow out the giant wad of slimy goo that is plugging the drain. Bernie was my initial hit on the addictive quality of hearing a politician tell the truth about our system of governance in this day and age. I'm suffering serious withdrawals, and don't know if I will survive banging my head on the wall for much longer.

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Raggedy Ann's picture

on my comment. I couldn't agree more. As a boomer, I am beyond disappointed at my generation of "keeping up with the Joneses" instead of remaining the generation of "rebelling against the status quo at all costs." Diablo

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

My goodness! We're talking global warming, endless war, WWIII, nuclear war!

That's apparently the status quo I'm supposed to accept w/a smile?

And before that, we get to have austerity economics, disaster capitalism, and the destruction of the concept of human rights? Oh, and also the concept of equality under the law. And the concept of the law itself.

FFS!

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Raggedy Ann's picture

My goodness! We're talking global warming, endless war, WWIII, nuclear war!

That's apparently the status quo I'm supposed to accept w/a smile?

That IS the status quo they are sleeping through. Sad

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

riverlover's picture

So Trump was late to the flop party. Many lost homes, home equity, retirement accounts, pensions, all ripped away. By a glitch. Hello! Most who had anything $$ in the system learned then. And many have not recovered from that. 8 years ago, nearly a decade lost. Job loss, kids growing, old cars, it all grinds down. Before, the the 1950's many bought houses on credit, most. But work was good. Surprise when the fan struck, and overextending of credit (which the banks calculated, strictly at least until early 1980's). Then kaboom! For a few years and then the banks relaxed to be vultures and no one knew.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

Dhyerwolf's picture

but then realized that there probably wasn't a point when I saw them invoking that Trump=Hitler, but also wish for your death based on your disability. That's some cognitive dissidence right there (of course, the whole video is cognitive dissidence. Trump's best age demographic was 65+. Trump's worst age demographic was the millennials).

Edit: But it's a small mind that truly groups people like this anyways.

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generation, I am 67, should ever be allowed to seek the presidency again. The two we had, Bill and GWB were and are both overgrown adolescents. It is time to let the grownups take over.

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Nastarana

Cachola's picture

Baby boom 1946 - 1964. Obama b. 1961.

0 for 3, oy

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Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.

Alligator Ed's picture

Boomer did you say? I think "boob-er" would work better.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

get to take over--but then, the real problem isn't generational, but systemic: it's a system where only the corrupt can survive and flourish. If a Gen-Xer does get any real power, it'll be Paul Ryan. (Ugh).

Still, it is a little weird that Obama is, I think, the youngest person in leadership in the Democratic Party? Phew.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

It's not an exact science.

I know several Gen Xers for whom I'd give my life. I don't know of a single New Democrat about whom I can say the same.

Correlation is not causation.

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In 2008, the generational contrast between McCain and Obama almost could not have been greater, one of the oldest ever to run for POTUS vs. one of the youngest ever to run. This time, the only real generational choice was in the Republican primary, much as Hillbots tried to pretend she is light years younger than Sanders.

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Shigeru's picture

as I am the parent of two early millennials and in-law to a couple too.

They were all staunch Hillary supporters, but like the guy in your video were very self-righteous about it. In fact my daughter and daughter in law called me immature, cruel, and quasi-fascistic for voting for Stein. They still believe I cost the election, even though all of us live in CA and I could have voted for my dead cat and it would have made no difference to the outcome.

BTW I am an early boomer, just turning 69 on Christmas. Unlike most of the self-righteous ones I did two tours in VN, one year on the Czech border, put self through school via working in bars, getting scholarships, and have worked since I was 14. Hillary`s first full-time job apparently was at age 60.

And last thought - Hillary and the DNC just plain lost the election via stupidity. In short her team of thousands ace political stategists, lobbyists, data analysts and pollsters were outsmarted by a wealthy contractor and a team of 20.

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