Those that have done evil... (A Rant)
Ok, for those of you who don't know.
I'm a veteran. Operation Iraqi Freedom. 2007-2009. Worst year and a half of my life.
I bring this up for perspective. I know a lot of people have lived full lives doing good things and working hard for what you believed is right. I'm not here to denigrate your goodness, or your effort, or to tell you that what you did is wrong.
I'm here to talk about doing evil. Because I have done evil in my life, and at the time, it's very easy to get sucked into it. I haven't ever wanted to do bad things. I just did what I thought had to be done, in the interests of the time, without thinking, without reflection. I wanted to be a good soldier, and I have the medals that say I was one. Complete with the honorable discharge, good conduct, purple heart, and every other little piece of fruit salad a lower enlisted collects.
Now that I'm home, and a civilian, I can think about what I've done. And I am not proud of everything I did. For those of you who say "thank you for your service" I appreciate the thought, but the words ring hollow to me, for what I did for the people of this country, I sometimes wish I could take back.
Evil isn't big grandiose things, with twirled mustaches and gleeful chortling. Evil is the daily grind of doing ever more tiresome and ridiculous things, simply because everyone around you is.
The smallest evil was torturing a man. Oh, we didn't call it torture. I mean, when the entire platoon feels the same thing, it's not torture. It's just friendly ribbing. It's a rite of passage. It's shared hardship. It's not torture when 40 men line up and take turns punching you hard in the chest. It's not torture when you do that to another. It's to make you feel like you earned that promotion...
Watching a small child torture a dog to death and doing nothing was evil. But it wasn't my responsibility. It was their culture. I had to be respectful. Couldn't say anything, had to keep walking.
A larger evil was killing someone. Oh, it wasn't a murder. It was a warning shot that went wrong. Guy should have known to stop his car at the unannounced checkpoint. Did nothing wrong. No way to know there wasn't a bomb in the car. It was the right thing.
The line between an illegal order and following legal orders, and yet still doing evil is broad and deep. You can wade in it for months. It still will stain you when you finally get out of the moral muck and look back on what you did.
There's a lot more, and a lot of things that stick in my head and haunt me when I take time to reflect when I can't sleep. I don't like to mention them, or even think about them. I try to flip my mind to the nicer things. To the times when I practiced rock climbing on an adobe wall, for example. Or maybe the time I slept on the upstairs of a bombed out building, with half the second story floor gone, listening to the sound of the wind through the makeshift shelter.
I don't know why I'm saying these things. Do I think that Trump and all of his supporters are evil? No, but I see them heading down the same path. Hillary and her dead-enders are on the same road to hell. It's not well marked, and it's filled with twisting paths that always seem slightly less dim, but leading you ever onwards. Once you make it a life or death struggle, almost everything becomes acceptable, and almost everything becomes threatening. You make excuses, generalizations, and no longer think, just react in the way that you've been trained. For me, it's to see an enemy, and to judge based off what is in front of my face, rather than what might have lead up to it, or what might lie in the future.
So I guess... I'm just saying I feel guilty. I know that in my soul something is terribly broken by what I went through in the war. I just hit freaking 40, and my body is falling apart now, so I know it wasn't just my emotions that took hits. Pains in so many parts of my body, aches in my heart, and an earnest desire to never let anybody else follow that same path. Those so eager to fight against evil that they can't see that they will make choices which lead imperceptibly towards ruin.
So many stains on the soul. I knew exactly how much regard I was truly held in when my Disability was used as evidence against me in a court of law. (CPS, when I tried to get my children back after my ex left them in foster care while I was at war.) Many will say they support those who have done the hideous work, but will never truly know what was done for them, nor will they care to know. When the burdens finally become too much, they will happily cut and run, because it's not their responsibility. Hell, some will even MOCK you, just to try to get you to "Deal" with the problems that run through your brain.
When I see fools agitating for violence, or committing violence, all I can think of is the evil that will have to be done to end the violence. There is no "Good Fight", merely a fight. It's never a good thing. I never want to do evil again, so if I immediately say NO, not gonna do it, that's where I'm coming from.
Because I remember Mosul. And when I saw the pictures, almost ten years later, it hadn't changed. The evil I did, all for the greater good, had changed nothing. And all I was left with was a stained soul.
Comments
I think you are one of the most interesting writers here.
I always scan for your comments.
But there is no way I'm going to read that.
I sense it would harm me.
I would never enlist for the same reason.
I know it would harm the American people.
No offense taken.
This was a late night, frustrated rant.
I don't censor myself well or consider how my words might hurt those who haven't experienced what I have.
Thanks for the words of support and I totally get it.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
That was powerful and true plea for non-violence.
I wish every young person contemplating either joining the military or resorting to violence to solve problems would read it.
I'd also wish that the sick people running our country would read it, but I don't think it would do much good. It's horrifying that right now we have a vicious contest between two factions in our country, and I'm not talking about Rs and Ds. On one side are the people who want killing all the Muslims as the top priority. On the other, we have the people who want to make war with Russia ASAP. And they're so ruthless and violent, it seems that this dispute over who we kill first could end up in civil war in this country.
Lunacy.
I sometimes think the Custard pie fight...
would have been the best possible way to end Dr. Strangelove.
Complete insanity, and nobody comes out of it looking good.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
The people parroting "Thank you for your service," think
they're doing a noble thing. It's a hollow gesture IMO. Charities for veterans are the same as there many who still suffer without relief. Of course the best way to care for our service members is not to use them to perpetuate empire.
I'm glad you were able to get your kids back dispite a crappy lawyer's ploy. I've followed your struggles since back at the GOS, hoping you were doing well. I know the past haunts you. You have a good heart, though even if it was wounded by your experiences. I wish you peace.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
The fact that there are charities for veterans
Says to me that we as a country are shirking our responsibility to take care of our own.
Now interviewing signature candidates. Apply within.
It pisses me off no end to see those charities advertising
on TV. I'm sure the people running them are generously compensated. A few people are helped, but most are left to sink or swim.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
What's even worse is how many are funded by the VA.
Take the DAV for example.
Took jobs out of the local economy (Local cab drivers lost the contracts for transportation)
Offered disabled veterans a job (For minimum wages most of the time)
Let the VA "Cut Costs" (since the money comes from a different part of the VA, they get to write off transport now.)
Increased the response time for vets to get to the clinic/hospital. (Went from "However long it takes the cab to get to your door" to "2 days in advance, for an appointment window")
Let the Politicians brag about both the private sector filling a need AND count new jobs.
Same type of thing happens everywhere. We only see our little slice of it because the TV doesn't advertise that. Not until Walter Reeds happen.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
The story does get much darker.
But it gets light at the end, at least light enough that I can say my children are better, and I'm better.
I've got people in my life now who make my life better, and I've gotten rid of a lot of the negative folks who dragged me down.
Yeah, C99 is part of it.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
I'd like to share my dad's life
Story with you. He was born in 1912. Got drafted when he was in his thirties. Immediately he was groomed by the military to be part of some special ops group, that was trained for some special "beach head assault" on D Day. So once that training began, he figured he was a walking dead man.
Due to an accident, which involved a friend inadvertently dropping a shell on his big toe, when D Day arrived, he was in the hospital with a knee to toe tip cast on his foot. By the time he recovered, D Day was a thing of the past, and he was sent off to Paris til the military could figure out what to do with all the soldiers who weren't really needed for much. Luckily for the top brass (although not so lucky for the grunts), The Battle of The Bulge erupted, and my dad, like a lot of other guys there in Paris, was sent off to fight it.
Flash forward to early 1950's: I am just a two or three year old who adored her dad. My mom was sick of his war stories - after all, isn't 7 or 8 years enough time to recover from an inconvenience like war? So he and I would wander over to the local park and he'd tell me about war, starting with World War One. "Always be skeptical when they tell you the war they are planning is the big one that will end all wars," he'd muse. "No war has ever stopped another one."
Then he'd tell me about various aspects of *his* war, most of which were unpleasant. He'd often remark, "So all of us were so damn young, and so energetic, and we burned through whole weeks and months of our lives transporting our vehicles and our weaponry from one part of Europe to another. All for the sake of war. For destruction. Cities in Europe looked like piles of rubble after we warriors were done with them." He'd fall silent, maybe then give the swing I was on a strong, deep push. When I was done swinging, he'd say, "If only all our energy had been used for some positive effect - imagine all those people on both sides of the war building things, not ruining them. Not killing each other, but helping them live."
A decade and a half later, I was against the war in Vietnam. I was an outspoken, weird music loving, war protester, and so were my friends, and he couldn't understand why. Where had he gone wrong, he'd ask, that I had no patriotic values?
So I had to explain: "I hate war because of what you taught me about war, Dad. War is wrong. We should use our energy to build things, not destroy them." And apparently he couldn't remember the lessons he had taught, or maybe he could remember those lessons, but couldn't figure out how a little tiny kid could be that responsive to them. He didn't realize that the task of repairing his own life and being a teacher to his daughter was perhaps a greater thing than "heroically" fighting that Battle of the Bulge.
This is your task now too. You have both the ability and the courage to continue to speak out against war as someone who has participated. And don't feel bad if you "unsaddle" those dark moments of your soul on your children. It is those moments with them that will help them become a generation that strives for, and acquires, peace.
Believing in the improbable can make your life a miracle.
edited wording
to not feel guilty. I hope that you have your children with you and that they keep you busy so that the past slowly can fade away into the background. I hope that this country will give you enough social and financial support that you never will have to be homeless. Work for the future. Leave the past behind as much as possible. You are one amoung thousands who have the same feelings about their military engagements of the past in Iraq. My son was just six month in Iraq in 2003. He had other tasks to do, but still he feels guilty. Think about all the millions of men who feel guilty in what they were involved. It's a curse of mankind to harm and do evil against each other. We are all in that. Nobody is really without guilt. It makes no sense to blame others for what they supposedly did and oneself didn't. We are not that much "better" just because we physically were not involved in "evildoing" in a war.
It is important to prosecute those, who initiated the policies of torture and the military who allowed torture to happen under their command. One loses all hope if the legal structures in the government allow evil to be legal.
Heh, it's Sunday, let's look forward to the next days. Try to find something that distracts your mind from the thoughts about the past. Life always goes forward, thoughst always are stuck in the past. That's not too helpful.
And BTW, this was not a rant, it was an honest recap of what you feel. Very helpful to us for you to put it out. You have my back for doing so, but I'll try to keep my head down. We all want to survive and go on in life and build a new future.
All the best to you and especially your kids. Thank God we have them.
https://www.euronews.com/live
I appreciate that.
They say that those who do evil for others surrender their volition to those above them. (At least it's the theory anyway.)
Problem is when those who give the orders are completely insulated from the consequences of their decisions, to the point where they can order murder and never lose a wink of sleep.
And honestly, Pot helps. A LOT. At least my specific blend does. Turns me much less introspective, and more focused on what I need .
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
heart felt piece and...
I hope writing it helped. Often getting stuff out is the first step to letting it go.
I've never faced the evil of war, but we have all faced evil. We can't help but carry some with us. Time seems to be the great healer, and as mimi says children make us change our focus.
Here's wishing you and your kids the best. Keep your memories but try to let go of the guilt - the system that put you in that situation wasn't caused by you!
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
It did. Slept well.
And was blissfully free of dreams. Nice change.
Going to take my kids out for a bit later, and hopefully it'll help some.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Wow. You have my respect.
Thank you for writing this.
Beautifully done. War, torture, abuse harm the victim and the perpetrator both. No other way to see it. You have a double burden, because you yourself were/are a victim of a horrible system and whether formally or not you were coerced into doing things that harmed not just others, but especially yourself. It is an evil system.
Try to forgive yourself, b/c in truth I don't see it was under your control or your fault.
You are young. Stay beside those you love and who love you.
Healing thoughts and love streaming your way, ((( Hugs ))) also.
peace
Don't believe everything you think.
I think it's why I wanted to be good at my job.
I wanted to be an officer, had the approval from the captain, the Sgt Major, etc to be one.
Not because I wanted to cause more suffering. I wanted to cause less.
There's a thousand ways that you can end and alleviate suffering, but those giving orders never were given the direction to do anything about it. I wanted to be that officer who looked at evil and said "No."
Looking back I know now that I would never have been allowed to.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
It is brave of you to share this
Sending positive thoughts for healing your way detroitmechworks.
Hopefully time will lessen the guilt you feel. After all, you didn't create the war. Our gifted leaders did that -- for oil. They dropped you into a meat grinder and you did what you could to make some sense of it and survive.
For readers (like me) who have never seen war...
There was 5-part TV series this past summer ‘Taking Fire’ on Discovery channel. It's probably still viewable with On-Demand. For me it was a good War Primer 101 for people who wonder how soldiers get PTSD. It opened my eyes. But it could be a trigger for soldiers who have been there.
It was a reality series with soldiers in Afganistan with GoPro cameras on their helmets. It gave me some perspective about what soldiers in a war zone are subjected to. How they have to make life/death split second decisions every day. How everyone around them could be an enemy including the smiling children running up to greet them. I know it would drive me into some insane mindscape of alternate reality just to cope mentally.
About 'Taking Fire'
http://heavy.com/entertainment/2016/09/taking-fire-afghanistan-war-jj-mc...
Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.
Worst part is those things...
aren't ALL the time. You can go hours, or days where nothing like that happens.
Still remember the best time I ever had in the war zone. Command literally forgot about my squad for 2 weeks.
We did everything we could to not remind them we existed.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
You're one of the good ones, dmw.
Glad you're here.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
I try to tell myself that.
Sometimes I wish I hadn't been so good at my job.
I loved the Army, but hated the war. Back stateside I saw so much potential for good that we COULD have done, but never did.
Of course I've ranted on how to fix the Army so many times, it's crazy. I truly believe it can be a force for good, if the politicians would just use it that way. Not that I ever expect them to, at least not as it's currently structured.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
But you kept us safe.
And protected our freedumbs. I read that, again, this morning. People talking about veterans and how they served their country to keep us safe and protect our freedom. What a crock that is and yet people believe it so fervently they can't and won't listen to reason. They are convinced that we vets actually risked our lives so they could go to Starbucks and talk all day on their Iphones, shop in the malls, and not worry their little heads about what's happening "over there".
Ask any person on the street who Smedley Butler is and they will not know. Ask them about the war in Syria and they will not know. Tell them you're a veteran and invariably they'll say, "thank you for your service".
I always wondered, what if I killed ten babies in a hospital with a drone, would they thank me then? Maybe I should say that next time.
"Thanks for your service.
I killed ten babies with a drone.
Oh. Well, thanks anyway"
The greatest preventor of war is full immersion in it.
Ending the draft was ironically one of the best things that the permanent war makers could do to ensure that we never have a protest against war again.
Not that I wish for a draft mind you. I would ache that nobody goes through what veterans have to.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Absolutely right
I only did it from 23,000 feet (most of the time), and that was enough. I can only barely imagine it from a full immersion perspective, but know that it would be far more convincing.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
Thank you, not for your service, but for your brave honesty.
The draft was still in place in my day, and had drawn a bead on me the day we got our lottery numbers. Mine was over 300, so I was free, but not my brother and almost half of all draft eligibles. My relief was immediately tinged with a form of survivors guilt, something which still lives in me today and which had me wracked with emotion after reading your essay.
I was later told by an ex Marine that I worked with that I would have made a good Marine. Even if true, I found little comfort in that possibility. I feared my plasticity, my wish to be part of esprit de corps, and my potential to lose my way in the mad violence of war. I feared that my wish to be a good person would be overrun, that I would cross unseen lines that would seperate me from my humanity and make me something I did not wish to be.
Thank you for surviving. Thank you for fighting to heal your self. Thank you for refusing to be crushed. For these things you have my respect and my thanks.
“ …and when we destroy nature, we diminish our capacity to sense the divine,and understand who God is, and what our own potential is and duties are as human beings.- RFK jr. 8/26/2024
It helped to have a goal.
Course, when I obtained it (Getting my kids back and better) I don't really know what to do with the rest of my life. Just trying to love and be loved now.
Sometimes I do feel like Inigo.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6-Dt1g2E18]
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
"The greatest thing you can ever learn
is to love and be loved in return."
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
Amazing Piece, dmw. A Real Keeper Here:
I didn't do war, but my parents died when I was young. I've got some emotional issues from that.
When fighting or arguing, I'm very careful to not "go there". A fight is a fight, and anything goes. I avoid fights and arguments with people I care about because I'm afraid I'll go there. Afraid I'll take the fight too far, be too aggressive, and irreparably harm someone I care about or our relationship.
Your essay here just bumped that up to a scale of 300,000,000 people. Lots of moving parts and relationships getting clobbered in this fight. Scary to think of where it could go.
Peace, dmw. Thanks for your deep and passionate writing. You have a deep and important perspective. I appreciate your sharing it.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
There's a lot of imagery and ideology
that presses my "Threat" button, so I'm very careful when discussing it.
You're right. Too many people see this as a fight for their survival, and those who benefit from us fighting with each other think they can keep this a cold war.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Wonderful essay, thank you for your thoughts
You're more than welcome.
Just reminds me to write in the middle of the night.
It's when I do my best work.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
in lieu of
"thank you for your service"
i'd like to say i'm glad you're still alive, and i hope your ghosts are not too harsh.
i've done evil myself.. not killing, but self-servicing evil. i think everyone has, and i think everyone has their own ghosts, in different degrees, surely, but torment nonetheless.
i feel like this rant is a purge, and congrats on that. if more people were willing to tell the story of their evil side publicly we'd all be better off.
GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG
It's practically a requirement to survive...
That you don't speak of second guessing yourself. If you did, you could never make it through.
It is a purge, yes, but I hope that this deals with the emotional cyst again. I've ranted on it before, and it still seems to hurt. Always better to deal with it though.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Wow - detroitmechworks
This just took my breath away and burns into my soul. It also gives me a bit of understanding into my Marine son. He did 3 deployments, 2005, 2006 and 2007. While he doesn't share a lot with his mom about what it was like and I can only imagine, there are times he says in a different way what you have stated in this post. I hear it in his voice, see it in his eyes and can read it in his face.
I wish I had more words, but I am gobsmacked at your honesty in telling your story. I do want to say thank you for your service, and I sincerely mean it from deep within my heart. And thank you for giving me a better understanding of my son. It always breaks my heart when my son tells me that if I knew what he had done, I would hate him.
I do want to share with you what I told my son before his first deployment to Baghdad - "do whatever you need to do and bring yourself home alive. I will stand with you always, always, always."
May you and others find peace in your soul, and since I am a true believer in the power of prayer, I'll add you to my prayers for healing and peace. ((hugs))
My generation of warfare needs our Heller
Only thing you see are social critiques which treat the war as a setting. At least in the MSM.
Always seems to be Odysseus where Penelope was unfaithful too. (Sorry, but I keep seeing that story ALL the freaking time... very dull and unoriginal.)
Sorry to go a little off topic, but what I'm trying to say is that we so few honest portayals, and so many lazy retreads of the same tired fictions that were old a generation ago.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
I would like to apologize for your demon-getting time
on behalf of those of us who would prefer the peace route. I am sorry. Best to you and your kids. I hope they are thriving, as much as tweens and early teens can.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Pretty good, thanks.
Just dealing with standard homework drama. A huge relief from the old days of screaming fights.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Thank you
My brother, cousins, and of age nephews all did their time in the military (I'm the only male in my immediate family who didn't).
I've talked with my family members that have served in greater or lesser degrees. You are not alone.
It's a horrible way to make pacifists...
but it does seem to be effective.
Sometimes in my exhausted thoughts I wonder if that wasn't the idea, way back in prehistory.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
I just shared this with my late husband's sister
whose husband served in VN, has PTSD, and she is a Trump-voting, flag waving, Thank You For your Service kind. No thought.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
I hope the response was at least thoughtful.
Thank you for sending this out though.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Hey Brother,
after reading this post and the commentss to date I think the underlying thread is forgiveness and peace, if not redemption. Yes, you did bad shit in a bad situation BUT YOU SURVIVED when so many others didn't. You came home to your kids to make a different difference if that makes sense?
No, you can't 'leave it behind' because that is fundamentally impossible and would actually diminish who you are at this point in time. As for moving forward, well, what choice do you have? Live in the past and crush the remainder of your 'soul'? Fuck that. As you can see from the comments you have a nascent support group here that cares. Just ask Mimi, she knows that this is THE place to seek some solace from like minded individuals. Even if some of us are assholes at times(me) when dealing with our own or others issues.
Find what peace you can in your world and know that you are loved by people you will never meet in meatspace.
peace
If not solace, then at least a little bit of understanding and empathy
Edit; when posting this, lines got switched around but you can figure it out!
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
There are good people here.
Reason I take medicine, try not to wallow and to be the best person I can.
Maybe I'll post about my current life sometime, when I'm feeling a little braver. It is better though, and that's what matters, at least to me.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Some of the gentlest souls I have known were ex-soldiers
who participated in active combat. They lived their post war years for peace.
My Great Uncle (a survivor of the WWI trenches), created the only safe zone my father had when growing up. Taught him a man is not defined by his willingness to fight, but his ability to defuse dangerous situations, be gentle with animals and enjoy family life.
My ex-neighbor (WWII - Vietnam) and Uncle (Vietnam) convinced me not to accept a full scholarship to West Point or The Navel Academy. The unintended personal consequences of years of service was not worth the dollars provided for tuition. The total stranger (Vietnam) who stopped by the group of ROTC prospects who were discussing the latest pitch at college. He told us they just wanted us because we were young and would easily follow orders.
The fellow C99 (Iraq) (you) who advocated for the first face to face meet-up in the Portland area. Someone who knows community participation is important. Someday I might make it over the mountains for a meet-up.
We are the sum of our experiences and do not need to let a specific period in our life define us. It is how we move forward in life and interact with others that defines our today.
May you sleep soundly at night. I do know for some of my family members it took time, but they were able to accept peace for themselves, in addition to providing it for others.
Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.
I remember running into my high school science teacher.
Who had served, and was the most laid back guy I ever knew.
This was after I had served.
I really understood a lot more than I did when I was a teen after speaking to him, with just that little extra life experience.
Just a little anecdote to say thank you for your kind comment and words of encouragement. They really do help.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
The legend was that our mild-mannered, granddadly
high school janitor was in the Canadian assault on Dieppe in 1943.
I can't tell you if it was true, because even the idea of it put us in sufficient awe that we would never have dared to ask him about it.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
My Calculus Teacher (the Marine D.I.)
Back in the day, Marine Drill Instructors had the reputation of being very much not "gentlest souls". My college calculus teacher had recently been a D.I. As such he knew full well the fate of his charges. In class and out his demeanor was still very military. One day as we were to start class, he asked me to meet him in his office. As I started toward the door, he told me I should bring my stuff with me. The other students sat in stunned silence as we exited the room and he quietly closed the door behind us: That was when I saw the man at the far end of the hall. As we walked to the nearby stairs the loiterer started walking toward us. As we spiraled down the two flights to the ground floor, I saw other men walking toward us. As we walked toward his office other men in suits blocked additional escape routes. At his office I gently placed my books and other material on his desk. As the Federal Marshal began, "Robert I. Price, you are under arrest . . .", I set down on the floor. Dr. D stood stoic throughout the arrest process, and as they carried me from the building . . .
A few days later, my friends told me that Dr. D acted "distracted" when he returned to the classroom. He refused to tell them what had happened to me. They said he tried to compose himself, at least three times, trying to concentrate on presenting his lecture to the class. After a long look at the floor and/or his shoes, by force of will he looked at the students and announced that he was not able to teach class. He then went away for the day.
Dr. D and I never, in all these years, spoke of this incident. I have always wondered what went through his mind that day.
That lump in my throat
would not go away when I read this incredible essay. You are a very brave man to write this while facing your demons from this war time experience.
When I read this, I was reminded of the veteran who stopped by our Peace vigil a little less than two years ago. He was with his wife and dog. They passed by us once and then she came back to pet the dog that one of our members had. Shortly thereafter, he turned around with his dog and cautiously spoke to us. When he realized that we were not anti-service personnel, he opened up to us about his war experiences. He was in the Army and did three tours in Afghanistan and one in Iraq. The Iraq experience particularly affected him. Reading your words in this essay was like listening to his story once again. I cried when he told it to us and I cried again this morning.
Thank you for sharing your heartfelt story with us. You and the veteran who spoke to us that day are not evil, but you are victims of the oligarchy. May Peace and blessings find you and your children today and in the future. Thank you again.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
They're doing better, as am I.
I still to this day find it so funny that I was placed on the Terror watch list after I came home.
The last thing somebody coming from a war wants to get involved with...
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Hey Detroit
Thanks for sharing. I can understand the guilt. It is what makes you a good human. I hope you will wage one more fight so the guilt doesn't win.
I too feel guilt. I never went to war, and I didn't do evil - I don't think. What I did was fail to be patient, giving and loving when it was needed and called for. The guilt will never disappear, but I keep reminding myself that I did the best I could. My bet is you did too.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Empathy is hard to teach to some folks...
For some others, it's as instinctive as breathing.
I'm doing better. Mentally at least. (Physically well... I got knocked down by a dog for the first time in my life, where it actually HURT. And that was 2 days ago...)
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
I watched my father, the D-Day
combatant, spend the rest of his life being anti-war. He kept fighting. Against bullies. Against unfair treatment of ex-soldiers. Against hunger. Against the mistreatment of animals.
We were allowed to rail against Hitler and facism, but he stopped us cold if we spoke ill of German soldiers. He just said the ones he had seen eye to eye were great soldiers on the wrong side.
Because of his example, I created an argument for all my juries. I think we must judge a person by the best day of their lives, not the worst day. We must believe in atonement. He and my mom came to court to see me in my first murder trial. They heard the argument.
Mercy is twice blessed. He that giveth, he that receives it.
Bless you, sir.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Reminds me of my grandfather.
He was also WWII, but Pacific Theater.
He was an avid wargamer, but very much bought into the H.G. Wells theory that the reason we play these out here on a table is so that it doesn't go anywhere else...
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
I read every word
What you wrote, your truth, is so important and a helpful warning.
Thank you for your story. It will lead others to peace and away from war.
In other words, it will save others from what you have suffered.
Your feeling of remorse shows your kindness.
I wish you all the best, you deserve it.
peace
Thank you.
Wish I could say more but I appreciate the kind words.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
I read every word
What you wrote, your truth, is so important and a helpful warning.
Thank you for your story. It will lead others to peace and away from war.
In other words, it will save others from what you have suffered.
Your feeling of remorse shows your kindness.
I wish you all the best, you deserve it.
peace
To a vet, I never knew what to say.
John L. was quiet, and very sympathetic, perhaps even a bit too empathic. We spoke often but with few words as words seemed superfluous: We were the same mental, emotional, and chronological age, he had "survived" a tour in Nam, I had "survived" a different hell at home. We were in accord with each other during the brief time we experienced the drama that was 1969-71. Of all the people I knew, he was the most supportive of those who chose to defy "the man."
I will never forget his wise counsel and so very twisted sense of humor. From the ridiculous to the sublime: I once asked him how he dealt with "clueless" questions. He replied, "I talk about the weather." We two never talked about the weather. , He introduced me to my future wife, hilarity ensued.
Gallows humor does seem to be prevalent...
among those who've "Seen the Elephant", to use the old WWI expression.
(I did like that one a lot, and Veterans groups I've talked with like it too. It's out of fashion with the general populace, but incredibly descriptive and really sums it up, IMHO)
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
staring into the abyss
As an acrophobic "staring into the abyss" has a gravitas of exceptional power. Sometimes laughing is the only lifeline back from said abyss.
I encountered a homeless guy here that was well known. That is, I knew of him and his "situation" long before I chanced to pass by him on the street one day. As we crossed paths, we made eye contact, and I said, "Hello." as I am prone to do. Without either of us breaking stride he started laughing, and laughed for a time as he walked away. An encounter worthy of a Samuel Beckett or Tom Stoppard stage treatment.
Only in telling this truth and us listening is this the service
we need. I am sad for you and proud of you facing the true nature of what you have been a part of and proud that you want to raise your kids by creating a family. It gives you a lot to live for.
You cannot tell this story enough times in enough ways. People should hear it. We need to know and have no other way to know unless those like you reflect and then spill/spell it out.
So thank you for the truth and what it feels like to someone who could have been any one of us.
I too have ghosts: as I worked hard in an industry which sucks clean water from the ground in the thousands if not millions of gallons per day and discards it a mess. I did not know in the beginning what I was doing. But when I found out, I did not leave, but excelled.
I too have only recently learned that I have PTSD from injuries endured under the medical industrial complex. When I see injustice to the defenseless be it animals or human, I am ready to pop off unbelievably fast. First time it happened, I didn't know. Now I am aware. So I intervene if I can otherwise I go home and cry.
What you write takes guts and lotsa wine or whatever. So thank you again. We need your voice.
You may choose to look the other way, but you can never say again you did not know. ~ William Wiberforce
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Marijuana.
Once or twice every couple days. Does wonders.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
There's a bizarre, sometimes hilarious TV show called
"You're the Worst" -- very black, cynical humor -- in which one of the characters, a very sweet-natured vet struggling with PTSD and recovering from heroin addiction inadvertently stumbles on marijuana as the one thing that "works" (after he's gone off his cornucopia of meds because they're ruining his romantic relationship).
Though he was originally a very peripheral character, his story line has dominated the last several episodes -- e.g., his struggle to get services from the VA, whose therapists won't treat him unless he agrees to go back on the meds that were incapacitating him.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
Yep, that's the CA VA...
If they want to really give em the full honest treatment, make it so that the only place he can get housing is a Veteran's Transition Center, where they ban everything except coffee and Cigarettes and make thrice weekly AA meetings mandatory.
OR is MUCH better. They tried 2 meds, when neither worked, and I told them that medical marijuana worked, the doc said "I can't recommend that, but you know what works for your condition". While holding up air quotes for the first part.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
OK, I won't thank you for your service, but I will thank you-
-for writing this.
A friend told me that she had met an Indian tribal elder (Hopi, I think it was) out west, who had told her they had a ceremony for their people coming back from war. That they thanked them for enduring the horrors of war, so that others didn't have to. That they not only welcomed them home, but re-affirmed that no matter what they had done in war, they were still part of the tribe.
I'm sorry that I have no such ceremony to offer you. But I'm glad you made it home. Thank you for enduring what you did, and saving someone else from having to do it. Someone else who might not have made it home. Someone else who might not have had your gift for relating what it did to them. I don't know if this place counts as a tribe, or if maybe sharing a home state does, but you are still one of us. I am glad you are here.
I don't know if I'd call it a rant, either. I'd call it wisdom, earned the very hard way. Wisdom this country desperately needs. This piece was a stomach punch, but much of the best writing meets that description, because the truth hurts. Those who have mocked you live in fear of that pain. You are holding up a needle just outside of their bubble reality.
Please, keep writing. Someone who can let the demons of war out of their heads, coherently, doesn't come along that often. In our video-game, Hollywood-movie culture, we are awash in propaganda that tries to normalize violence, and make war sexy. You are speaking Truth to that particular Power.
Bookmarked, and on my list of "things young people should watch, listen to, or read before joining the military"; right up there with Wilfred Owen and Smedley Butler.
Be well, DMW. And if you can't yet be well, be better than yesterday. Best wishes to you and yours.
"Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all."
- John Maynard Keynes
That's very high praise.
I once wanted to write a comedy about Iraq, but I know that It'd either come across as absurdist or far-fetched, just by slightly exaggerating the events as they really occurred.
I can't remember the name of the book, but I recall that ceremony mentioned in it. (Was a discussion on how we can deal with PTSD, etc. Fine book and should be handed out to every person as they leave the service. Even points out that seeking pension for what you suffered during the war isn't Selfishness or being Lazy [as some neo-libs like to claim] but rather a recognition that you are still a part of the society, and that you are valued.)
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
The relative by marriage only that I sent your essay to
is still furious with a nephew who volunteered and bailed during Basic, saying he had suicidal ideations. What, exactly she demanded of hm I do not understand. Happy USMC let him off, myself.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
That's the same crap the neo-libs dish out to we civilians, too.
Calling Social Security an "entitlement"? I've paid into it my whole working life, and now the entitled oligarchy looters look ready to rob me of it before I can get any of it back. -But about that comedy of yours-
WRITE IT!
There was a time in my life when I wrote some comedy, and delivered it at open mics. There is no better feeling in the world than stepping up to speak just after somebody that has brought everybody down, I mean WAY down, and then getting the whole crowd to laugh. Yes, it's a fine line between comedy and anger, and a real tightrope it is, but when it works, it's worth it. OF COURSE it's absurdist and far-fetched. Absurdity is the soul of comedy.
There is another reason I urge you to try your hand at it. We are all fighting for air under a deluge of oligarchy propaganda. The last thing in the world that they want is for the common people to stop fearing, even for an instant, and to come together in honest laughter. There's a reason that you probably can't name any famous Nazi comedians.
IMHO, real comedy comes out of Truth (and often from pain), and lame comedy comes from mere Ideology. If you write comedy based on true events, events which the oligarchs want depicted in only the most serious and respectful fashion, you fight the entire "exceptional" lot of them. You fight the division, hatred, and fear they create and broadcast. You throw the absurdity of their endless war mentality into stark relief. You break with the groveling worship that the elites are starting to expect from us.
One other thing - just as the most grinding tragedy can be broken up by comic relief, the opposite is also true. In a comedy, I think especially a dark one, you can break it up with tragedy. If you make that tragic interlude real and painful and true, those moments will sink in deeper, for more people, than any propaganda could hope to. It can be a message that sticks. In my experience, you will have about 10 seconds or so at a time. Don't waste it.
Seriously, DMW. Take us somewhere horrible, for the stupidest of reasons; show us Truth and Evil, and make us laugh. If you won't do it for me, won't you please do it for Mr. Trump? Won't you do it for the Bushes, and the Obamas? Won't you do it for the Clintons, and baby Chelsea?
Whatever you decide to do, Good Luck to you!
"Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all."
- John Maynard Keynes
I lost a brother in Korea.
A nephew went to Nam and came back with addictions, although the addiction helped to dull the trauma. My daughter was on active duty on 9/11 and came home with a damaged body and was really weird for a long while.
War is a bitch and really isn't worth the cost. Everybody has scars.
[The daughter, btw, is much better mentally. The VA sent her to college and she now has a job in a quiet corner of the VA bureaucracy.]
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
Heh. Hope they can do that for me.
Unfortunately it took five years for me to even start the process of getting my life FULLY back together. (For almost all that time I was living day to day... hard habit to break.)
Just glad I live in a state with legal medicine that works, schools where my children are getting the help and opportunities they need, and I have good people around me.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
You came back to rescue your kids, dmw.
That is all-important, besides making it back, alive.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
I forgot to say, beautiful essay. Truth is beauty, etc.
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
Nothing to say except that I consider you a friend--
and if you ever need to talk, you know where to find me.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Thanks. I just think I need to write more.
It always seems to help.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
War never changes and
despite the romantic attachments it never is romantic. Some people BECOME heroic during it but most seem to just endure. Some become vile and continue that vileness a la black water goons. Or maybe they were just vile to begin with and learned more depravities as they went along.
War seems to be an on going human experiment. We never seem to tire of it. We glorify it and have great music to accompany it. But we never seem to LEARN from it (or them) in any collective way other than other military tactics and weapons.
It seems to me that we need to decide pretty damn quick if we as humans are capable of "humanity" cause if we are not no point in going much further with the human experiment.
glitterscale
Well put.
I don't have anything to add, other than to say thanks.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
I pray that you find peace
I take it from your signature you dont think much of Christians and I can understand that,But I ask you not to give up on the Lord,He can and will bring you peace if you allow him,You dont need a church or religion to know him,Get yourself a good study bible and start reading the new testament and many of the answers of this life will be revealed,There is EVIL in this world and the Bible explains the prince of this earth is SATAN and he rules this world.GOD gives us free will,we can choose to do as we please we can choose EVIL and slavery to SATAN or freedom with Christ.Christ forgives all,lay down your burdens and forget the EVIL of your past.Christ forgave the Roman soilders that hung him on the cross he will forgive you for what you did in time of war.Iam a Navy Vet served during Vietnam so I understand some of what you feel,I just want you to know that I love you my brother and I pray you find peace
DW