Bernie Sanders’ Aim: Enact Democratic National Platform
Hillary Clinton topped Bernie Sanders to win the Democratic Party's presidential nomination. But Sanders got 46% of the pledged delegates, and brought out great enthusiastic throngs to back him and his policies. He then took that power to the Democratic Party platform negotiations with the Clinton camp, and parlayed it into what he and others call "the most progressive Democratic Party platform in history." (See list of platform planks below.)
Of the platform negotiations, a top Sanders adviser, Warren Gunnels, said:
We believe we got at least 80% of what we’ve been fighting for.
Sanders enlisted the renown author and climate action champion, Bill McKibben, for his negotiating team. McKibben came away fairly pleased with the platform results:
In four years we've gone from an "all of the above" energy strategy to one that explicitly favors sun and wind over natural gas. The platform promises a Keystone-style test for all federal policy: If it makes global warming worse, it won't be built. And it calls for an emergency climate summit in the first hundred days of the new administration.
And just last week Sanders himself said:
[B]ecause millions of people came out and stood up and fought back ... 80 percent, I would say, of the Democratic National Platform is what we believe in. ... So, when you ask me, where do we go from here in a sense, it means that we implement this.
Clearly, the best chance for implementing the Democratic platform is to elect Democrats. Sanders' approach is at once true to his values and practical:
I would hope that all those people who worked with me on this campaign, who supported me, understand that Donald Trump would be a real, real, real disaster for this country. He stands in opposition to everything that we believe in. On the other hand, the day after the election we don't sit back and say, "Well Clinton is president." What we do is we mobilize our people to make certain that, hopefully President Clinton, hopefully a Democratic Senate moves forward with an agenda that helps transform this country.
...
I think what politics is about is trying to be smart and think about where we are at this moment. I want to see Clinton become president and the day after that I, and the progressive members of Congress, and hopefully millions of other people will say, "President-Elect Clinton, here is the Democratic National Platform. It is a progressive document."
...
This is not trust. We're not here to trust. It is the very opposite of what I am saying to say, "Oh, sit back, elect Clinton, and then trust." No. Mobilize. Educate. Fight.
(video:Now This)
#StillBernie: For some Bernie backers, being still with Bernie means they still won't vote for Clinton. For others, it means they still back Bernie and his plans of today, that is:
- Elect Clinton for president.
- Elect a progressive Democratic Congress.
- Enact the Democratic National Platform.
- Mobilize.
- Educate.
- Fight.
List of Democratic Party Platform Planks
Here are some of the planks in the Democratic Party platform that line up in total, or in large part, with top planks in the Sanders platform.
- Tuition-Free College: For all with family income less than $125,000, tuition is totally free. The limit scales up from $85,000 over six years. This differs from Sanders plank, which had no income limit.
- Clean Energy: Government policy will favor solar, wind and other clean energy sources above any fossil fuel, including natural gas. Supporting this is a program to install half a billion solar panels across the country. The plank includes a specific goal of having 50% clean electricity within ten years. The Sanders plank had similar proposals, but also called for 100% clean energy for electricity, heating and transportation.
- Carbon Pricing: Greenhouse gases are priced to reflect their negative effects. This is similar to, though not as simple as, the Sanders plank of a carbon tax.
- Climate Summit: Within 100 days, the president will convene a summit meeting aimed at solving the climate crisis, going beyond the commitments of the Paris Climate Agreement. This plank is the same as that in the Sanders platform.
- The "Keystone Test": All government policy would be subject to the test used in President Obama's rejection of the Keystone Pipeline: If it worsens global warming, it won't be built.
- $15 Minimum Wage: This scales up over several years from the current $7.25 minimum wage, and is very close to the Sanders plank. The idea behind it is that no 40-hour-a-week job-holder should live in poverty.
- Family and Medical Leave: This plank calls for 12 weeks of paid family leave, "the right to earn" at least seven days paid sick leave, and encourages employers to provide paid vacation. The Sanders plank differed in that it would also have required two weeks of paid vacation.
- No Too-Big-To-Fail Banks: The plank states that too-big-to-fail is too big to exist. It stops short of the Sanders plank, which specifically calls for breaking up these banking corporations, but calls for stronger criminal and civil penalties for Wall Street fraud, and stronger enforcement. It would also create a wall between commercial and investment banking, as did the old, effective Glass-Steagall act.
- Wall Street Transaction Tax: A small fee on each market financial transaction would tamp down stock market volatility and, like the Sanders plank, provide funds for free college tuition.
- Social Security Enhancement: Rather than cut benefits and push out the age requirement, Social Security benefits would be increased. This would be funded by persons with incomes more than $250,000, who now pay a lower percentage of their income into the system than low and middle income persons. This is very close to the Sanders plank.
- Supreme Court: Clinton, like Sanders, would appoint judges that supported the power of Congress and the states to regulate election campaign finance, and that would overturn the "Citizens United" corporation-is-person, money-is-speech ruling that Chief Justice John Roberts spearheaded.
- Health Care Access: This plank supports having a public option on the health insurance exchange. This would likely be higher value insurance, since it would be free of covering corporate profit. Also, the plank would double support for community health centers. This is good progress, but still short of the Sanders plank of Medicare for all.
- Building Infrastructure: This plank would rebuild "crumbling roads, bridges, railways, airports, public transit systems, ports, dams, wastewater plants, and other infrastructure needs." Also, it would include modernization and greening of energy and water systems, and internet speed and access enhancement. A new independent national infrastructure bank would support these projects. The Sanders plank, from what I read, did not call for the new bank, but called for spending $1 trillion over five years for infrastructure.
- Internet Access:This plank would connect every household to high-speed broadband, help with free public wifi and wide deployment of 5G wireless. The Sanders plank put $5B a year into high-speed broadband expansion. Both platforms state that internet is not a luxury, but a necessity in the 21st century.
- Net Neutrality (Open Internet):This plank supports a free and open internet at home and abroad, and the FCC's net neutrality rules. Sanders has strongly supported net neutrality in Congress.
The Democratic platform, like the Sanders platform, appears to be designed so that all new spending is paid for, and so would not increase the national debt.
~~~
"[O]n every important issue ... Hillary Clinton's views are far, far better than Donald Trump's. And it is absolutely imperative that Donald Trump not become the next president of the United States. That's true on economic issues, it's true on healthcare issues -- it is especially true on environmental issues and on issues dealing with climate change." -- Bernie Sanders (video: 350.org)
* * *
By Quinn Hungeski, TheParagraph.com, Copyright (CC BY-ND) 2016
Comments
Funny how you think that any of the platform will be enacted.
It will be ignored just like all the past platforms. Bernie missed his chance to truly be revolutionary when he turned down Stein's offer to take the top slot on the Green Party ticket. Anyone with a microgram of honesty knows the primary was stolen from Bernie. Asking me to vote Clinton is on par with being asked for gas money from the thief who just stole my car. I think you need to go back under the rock you crawled out from under over at Orange State.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK | "The more I see of the moneyed peoples, the more I understand the guillotine." - G. B. Shaw Bernie/Tulsi 2020
Was with you 100%
Until the "crawl under rock" bit.
There're plenty of ignorant, misguided, simpleminded people easily swayed to make poor choices.
Educate, don't denigrate.
There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.
This is an orchestrated effort by orange state.
They have the nerve to drive us off the site, call us ll sorts of names then and now, HR us into oblivion if we don't lock step with them, and then come here to "educate" us. Fuck that. I don't need to be educated on this election, particularly from the likes of them.
Not to mention hungeski. Your graphic is freaking huge and obliterating the right hand column. It is against the rules to post images and videos wider than 500. If you are going to harass us, the least you can do is follow the rules.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I think this thread needs a little more color:
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Apparently Mr. Hungeski
Has a blog that he advertises on the front page as a "Reality Based Community". I wonder how much he's being paid to write Bernie Propaganda in service for The Clintons?
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
I looked up his diaries at GOS and he's been a Bernie
supporter since way before Bern supported Clinton. He doesn't look like a Hillbot from OT.
I post at 500 width because with trial and error I found it didn't bleed to the right. I didn't know that was a rule. Where is that rule written?
I thought the only rule was DBAA. And we discuss issues, we are not partisan, so if someone wants to promote Bern, Hill, or Trump, they can. They can also expect pushback. But attack the ideas, not the person.
Have things changed?
Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.
Excellent points EC.
Things have not changed here AFAIK.
People are still raw from Bernie's moves.... and some are more deft than others dealing with that.
For me, if this post were even remotely close to the truth, this effort would mark the first time progressives took the 'hold me to it' offensive .
Instead, take last cycle for instance, many waited for Obama to lead and instead got lecture prepped for neolibeeralism in his inaugural, then sat slack jawed and stunned when he annouced his appointments. Heh. Me included.
A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.
Nope, I work on my own.
Given the amount of sentiment here for destroying the Democratic Party, I would more worry about an orchestrated effort by Red State than Orange State.
I think the best course would be to not trouble about the source, and to judge each essay and comment on its substance ... and live paranoia free.
--
I did not know about the 500 px width rule. I will resize.
"We dance round in a ring and suppose, But the Secret sits in the middle and knows." - Robert Frost
"And it is absolutely
imperative that Donald Trump not become the next president of the United States." – Bernie
What you don't hear Bernie say is, "I wholeheartedly support Her Highness, and will do all I can to help her win this election." Not at Philly, not ever.
What he Has said is, "We all know that Hillary supports these issues... " Bernie (and Berners) knowing full well she does not. What Bernie diid in his Philly speech - and continues to do - is pin that Platform to HRC, giving him the "in" he needs to get back on the campaign trail - for 2018 and beyond - should HRC ignore Bernie's Platform. "She continues to ignore the Platform we put together in Philly, and for that reason, I'm putting the band back together and taking our show on the road." Brilliant.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
I would like to see that
but I doubt it'll be permitted.
That's correct--I've thought that for awhile, but I don't see enough pushback for him to overcome all the shit that's been flung at him since he "endorsed" Her Heinous. I don't think he meant a word of it, and in fact, I believe that he was threatened. And that is why I say it won't be permitted. Bernie Sanders has been given his Role to play, and being POTUS ain't it.
I regard the Democratic Party as a
criminal enterprise.
When Bernie finally addresses the damn emails released by wikileaks, I will be interested in how he interprets them.
Until then, he is a Democrat, rubbing elbows with the crooks, and I pay little attention to him.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Bernie and many others worked very hard
to run an excellent campaign and work to break through the DNC wall to negotiate reforms.
Don't you think it's disrespectful to call these people liars and crooks, especially when they sacrificed and worked hard to accomplish something on our behalf? They did the best they could and they deserve our gratitude.
If you have a better plan to reform politics and government, surely you can pursue it without trashing people who are working towards the same goals. This is the chronic problem that has historically plagued the left and prevented it from gaining political power - bickering and infighting. Let's change direction and show some great leadership this time around. Let's stop attacking each other, ok? Peace.
"If you can't eat their food, drink their booze, take their money and then vote against them you've got no business being in Congress."
My plan is to vote Green.
Don't lecture me.
Give me your insights on the wikileaks dumps.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Notice not ONE WORD about that
The Democrats want you to forget about the criminal enterprise they're running.
What they're working toward is noble but it
won't happen within the Democratic Party.
So no, that's not rude at all. And it's not "bickering and infighting", it's stating a fact. I would compel them to take all that energy and goodwill and put it toward a Party that will actually talk the talk. The Democratic Party is corrupted and has been for decades. All that time, they've lied through their damned teeth. So sorry, they get ZERO gratitude from me in the meantime.
Don't be a scold.
NO
Bernie Sanders can do what ever he wants to do.
I am not voting for Her Heinious.
And this statement in the essay is BULL SHIT:
"Hillary Clinton topped Bernie Sanders to win the Democratic Party's presidential nomination. " WE know how they "won" the primary. Just as they're trying to "win" the election.
Criminals.
Read this from the WSJ:
By Kimberley A. Strassel
Oct. 27, 2016 7:26 p.m. ET
874 COMMENTS
In an election season that has been full of surprises, let’s hope the electorate understands that there is at least one thing of which it can be certain: A Hillary Clinton presidency will be built, from the ground up, on self-dealing, crony favors, and an utter disregard for the law.
This isn’t a guess. It is spelled out, in black and white, in the latest bombshell revelation from WikiLeaks. It comes in the form of a memo written in 2011 by longtime Clinton errand boy Doug Band, who for years worked simultaneously at the Clinton Foundation and at the head of his lucrative consulting business, Teneo.
It is astonishingly detailed proof that the Clintons do not draw any lines between their “charitable” work, their political activity, their government jobs or (and most important) their personal enrichment. Every other American is expected to keep these pursuits separate, as required by tax law, anticorruption law and campaign-finance law. For the Clintons, it is all one and the same—the rules be damned.
The memo came near the end of a 2011 review by law firm Simpson Thacher & Bartlett into Clinton Foundation practices. Chelsea Clinton had grown concerned about the audacious mixing of public and private, and the review was designed to ensure that the foundation didn’t lose its charitable tax status. Mr. Band, Teneo boss and epicenter of what he calls “ Bill Clinton, Inc.,” clearly felt under assault and was eager to brag up the ways in which his business had concurrently benefited the foundation, Clinton political causes and the Clinton bank account. The memoed result is a remarkably candid look at the sleazy inner workings of the Clinton grifters-in-chief.
More Potomac Watch
Where Trump Fell Short Oct. 20, 2016
The Press Buries Hillary Clinton’s Sins Oct. 16, 2016
Trump’s ObamaCare Silence Oct. 6, 2016
Jim Comey’s Blind Eye Sept. 29, 2016
The cross-pollination is flagrant, and Mr. Band gives example after example of how it works. He and his partner Declan Kelly (a Hillary Clinton fundraiser whom Mrs. Clinton rewarded by making him the State Department’s special envoy to Northern Ireland) buttered up their clients with special visits to Bill’s home and tête-à-tête golf rounds with the former president. They then “cultivated” these marks ( Coca-Cola, Dow Chemical, UBS) for foundation dollars, and then again for high-dollar Bill Clinton speeches and other business payouts.
Teneo’s incestuous behavior also included Mrs. Clinton’s State Department. The Band memo boasts that Mr. Kelly (while he was Mrs. Clinton’s State envoy) introduced the then-head of UBS Wealth Management, Bob McCann, to Bill Clinton at an American Ireland Fund event in 2009. “Mr. Kelly subsequently asked Mr. Mccann [sic] to support the Foundation, which he did . . . Mr. Kelly also encouraged Mr. Mccann [sic] to invite President Clinton to give several paid speeches, which he has done,” reads Mr. Band’s memo. UBS ultimately paid Bill $2 million.
American Ireland Fund meanwhile became a Teneo client, and made Mr. Kelly (of former State envoy fame) a trustee, where he “ensured that the AIF is a significant donor to the Foundation.” AIF then bestowed upon Mrs. Clinton a major award on her final trip to Northern Ireland in 2012, in an event partly sponsored by . . . Teneo.
Not that this is all one way. Mr. Band let slip just how useful all these arrangements were for Teneo, too, when he backhandedly apologized in the memo for hosting 15 client meetings in a hotel room rented by the Clinton Global Initiative.
The memo removes any doubt that the foundation is little more than an unregistered super PAC working on the Clintons’ behalf. Donors to the charity are simultaneously tapped to give Bill speech requests and other business arrangements, including the $3.5 million he was paid annually to serve as “honorary chairman” of Laureate International Universities. Mr. Band’s memo also notes his success at getting donors to “support candidates running for office that President Clinton was supporting.”
It’s now 2016 and Bill’s most favorite candidate is running for the presidency. There’s no question foundation donors are being “leveraged” for Mrs. Clinton.
Mr. Band wants credit in the memo for prodding existing foundation donors to pony up more money, though the donation statistics he provides paint a different picture. By and large, donations to the foundation begin to spike dramatically in 2009 and 2010. Mr. Band didn’t form Teneo until 2011. What was happening in 2009? Mrs. Clinton was sworn in as one of the most powerful politicians on the planet.
The obvious question is where are the prosecutors? (For that matter, where is Lois Lerner when you need her?) Any nonprofit lawyer in America knows the ironclad rule of keeping private enrichment away from tax-exempt activity, for the simple reason that mixing the two involves ripping off taxpayers. Every election lawyer in the country lives in fear of stepping over the lines governing fundraising and election vehicles. The Clintons recognize no lines.
Here’s the lasting takeaway: The Clintons spent their White House years explaining endless sleazy financial deals, and even capping their exit with a scandal over whether Bill was paid to pardon financier Marc Rich. They know the risks. And yet they geared up the foundation and these seedy practices even as Mrs. Clinton was making her first bid for the presidency. They continued them as she sat as secretary of state. They continue them still, as she nears the White House.
This is how the Clintons operate. They don’t change. Any one who pulls the lever for Mrs. Clinton takes responsibility for setting up the nation for all the blatant corruption that will follow.
Write to kim@wsj.com.
And the perpetuation of war in the world.
She is nothing more than a criminal, whether it be financial dealings, criminal behavior as SOS, and beating the war drums. She needs to be jailed. All the Clintons need to be jailed.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
Caerus, please make this a stand alone essay
it deserves it.
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
"to call these people liars and crooks" Wikileaks Podesta
"Don't you think it's disrespectful"? Hell no. I repeat, Wikileaks Podesta. Read them and weep, or if you're a Democrat just "pick up the damned phone" now.
The Democratic party is corrupt, The Clinton Foundation is corrupt, The Clinton Global Foundation is corrupt. In my view the whole bunch are acting immorally, from here to everywhere. How did I end up being the Falwell I don't know but there it is. Never thought I'd see the day Democrats would go so low. I think Bernie should be ashamed of himself, but then I remember it's his life work it has to mean something. Okay. Keep going.
Peace
Did you get tired of orange state hr'ing you so you decided to
come here because we don't do that to anyone? Here's my plan. If the election is close in MI, I'll vote for Trump hoping to help defeat the election stealing, liar and war monger and her husband. If it isn't close, I'll vote for Jill.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Same plan here. I have actually been holding off on mailing in
my Florida ballot because I want to see what the polls look like closer to the election.
If it looks like a shoe in for either one of them I vote Stein, but if it looks close, I will vote for Trump to block the Clinton Crime Family from office.
The Clinton's and the Democrats have burned all the bridges, pissed on the ashes and then expect us to wade through that mud to support their candidate?
They can eat a bag....
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
Glad to see I am not the only one...
I early voted already in NC. I did end up voting for Trump since the state is running 50/50. I was serious when I said I would do anything to stop Clinton, even the unthinkable (voting Trump). I had to take a long long long shower afterwards, but I made the correct decision for myself.
War, War Never Changes - Fallout Series
the c99 "Who Hates Hillary Most" contest
We have a winner in the c99 "Who Hates Hillary Most" contest!
The finalists are the last three commenters up this thread, who each lives in a swing state and hopes ones vote for Trump will put the blithering psychopath in the Whitehouse, thereby blocking Clinton.
And the winner is ... B-101, who early voted!
All other contestants can now relax, but thanks for playing!
"We dance round in a ring and suppose, But the Secret sits in the middle and knows." - Robert Frost
Even campaign admitted internally candidacy "not meant to be"
Because of all her brazen insistence on being above the law and flouting her Wall St connections by accepting huge sums of money when she knew she was running for president.
We despise a "progressive" fraud, a cheat, a liar, a phony, a vindictive dictator, an imperious multimillionaire, an untrustworthy equivocating panderer, a money launderer, a triangulating "super predator" accuser, a sinister warmonger, a disgraceful "9/11!" Tourette's patient in the debates, one who crosses the picket line on her first date...shall I go on?
She made this bed. She can barely even fill a high school gym a week before the election. Not exactly the candidate who inspires confidence. Billy's golfing buddy's taking the bait really saved the day, didn't it?
Without the GOP Frankenstein Trump, where would $hills be?
The Democrats have lost many rank and file forever. The charade of the lesser-of-two-evil duopoly has been exposed for all-time with the fraud of the Primary stolen from Bernie and the hyper fear-mongering sham of the GE.
"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:
THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"
- Kurt Vonnegut
Kudos for actually posting one of the infamous emails.
Assuming it has not been altered, what do we have here?
- Clinton's "moderate and center" quote, which I already knew about, and
- a warning against triangulating against liberals, which I already knew is a Clinton tendency.
I don't know who brentbbi is, but I hope the Clinton camp is heeding his warning.
I don't see any damning evidence here.
"We dance round in a ring and suppose, But the Secret sits in the middle and knows." - Robert Frost
A.B.C. = Anybody But Clintons
President Donald Trump.
Two'fer: shakes up the Republican Party, and helps to take the Democratic Party out of the Klutches of the Kriminal Klintons ( surprised no body has had a chortle about this yet)
No more Klintons in the White House. Done. Toast. Way past their sell by date. Too bad she can't walk up steps without help, and needs to hold on to a railing, or podium to stand for any length of time. Still smiling at that marvelous performance of hers 9/11. For a supposedly smart person, why didn't she take a long drink of water, and remove her jacket if she was suffering from the heat ( on a relatively cool day) and who was the woman walking along with her taking her pulse? The way they all tried to keep her collapse out of the public eye, sure was a good move, too bad it didn't work. After he collapse, instead of going to a hospital, she goes to her daughter's apartment. Leaving her daughter's $10 million dollar apartment, and "spontaneously" meeting that young girl, who just happens to live next door to Chelsea in the same apartment building and was asked if she wanted to have her picture taken with Shrillary....it just goes on, and on, and on - please FSM make the Klintons go away. Please, I will clean and polish my colander hat & promise to wear it all the time, really I will.
Rewarding the thieves at the DNC doesn't do anyone any good
Rewarding the thieves at the DNC doesn't do anyone any good, including Bernie, If her Majesty is elected she will be in a position to bury the platform.
For awhile Bernie was something to rally behind, And many here are waiting for the next thing worth rallying behind. Bernie always talked about "We not Me", but he severely discounts the value a quality leader provides, especially one that understands the issues so well, and the means of change and functions of policy, very few are in that position.
This year the far off hope is that opdeny pulls something off, however current pulling trends put that at improbable. 4-15 or so electoral votes will be picked up conservative third parties, but without a split in the swing states, or a surprise third party win in a few more blue states, Her Majesty will win.
Unless something big changes in the new year, Bernie forming a new third party after the election, or the Greens finely reforming their platform and getting serious about being electable to someone outside their narrow base. Or maybe world events will change things(market crash/war/etc).
Then all we are left if is making the Dems lives a living hell, Start seeking out primary opponents, and funding them to the point that the guys in seats take notice and start to fear for their jobs. This will be harder with her Majesty in place.
Honestly I see every vote as being an endorsement, but at this point we need to be ready to vote to burn it down, If we can't primary someone, vote ruub and wait out the 2 years to get our guy through the primary without the opposition having the advantage of being an incumbent.
Momma Gonna Sell You Out
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
The disrespect was earned.
No disrespect that wasn't earned. The people who "sacrificed and worked hard to accomplish something on our behalf" then went out and gave themselves to the liars and crooks, thereby becoming part of them. Without even getting anything of real value in return, I might add.
When you lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas. Bernie laid down with Hillary Clinton......
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Every important issue?
I don't think Hellery is better than T-rump on Russia nor trade deals.
Bernie reminds me of Samson with a fresh haircut. I think he missed his/our great opportunity when he didn't go Green with Jill.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
I think he missed it when he failed to contest the CA primary.
Half a million new voters disenfranchised because they were enrolled in some Nonpartisan party that they never heard of? Do you think they signed up to vote for Hillary? Progressive California?
Not to mention national TV announcing on the night before that Hillary had already won, discouraging how many others from voting.
California should have had a do over because of those egregious errors.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
It was over after NY.
That was when the math on pledged delegates went against him.
The Clinton Cabal saw the writing on the wall for the NY Primary
They saw the enormous, jubilant crowds for Bernie, throngs of young people over the moon for him, the rapidly gaining momentum of small individual donations and volunteers flooding in every day. They panicked, and stole the primary through a mix of voter suppression (roll purges, no Independents, etc) and electoral fraud. Don't think that's possible? How about during the 2008 primary when Obama was similarly gaining steam. One entire district in Harlem, under the Clinton family mafia, registered not one vote for Obama!
Perfecting the RW tactics of Murdoch, Rove, Atwater, they blatantly destroyed their opponent through big lies, cheating and obfuscation, claimed Victory, and moved on, quickly. Next step was to pounce on any dissenters who claim malfeasance by tagging them as "conspiracy theorists." Leaving no time for any investigation or criticism of what had happened.
No way I'll ever believe she won NY, and by 16 fucking points! Those brazen, filthy bastards.
That was the whole point: to violently crush the spirits of the Bernie campaign that was spreading like wildfire. Nothing was the same afterward. Mission Accomplished.
"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:
THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"
- Kurt Vonnegut
It was over after Michigan
It was over after Michigan; we just didn't know it at the time. Bernie's win in MI was a shocker for the establishment. The mainstream news media refused to call MI for Bernie until over 90% of precincts had reported. You could see MSM reeling in shock.
At that point, Bernie had momentum, and it was building. In retrospect, I think that may have been the moment at which the Clinton campaign, the DNC, and the MSM realized they actually had a problem. They had already engaged in their usual shenanigans (Nevada precinct caucuses as a prime example), but after Clinton's loss in MI, they were determined that something like that wouldn't happen again.
"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi
"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone
Senator Sanders ran 3/4 of a good race: He faded down the
home stretch. I am not persuaded the platform is anything more than a waste of paper and bandwidth.
(The platform can be a plus if we remember it and remind new voters how promises by politicians are a big part of the ongoing scam.)
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
Sanders never connected with AA voters.
The problem was evident in Nevada where the break in AA vote was about 70- 30, as I remember.
With a lot of time and money to spend, Sanders made nothing happen with that number. It was 75-25 or worse all the way through the South and up to NY where he was stopped dead after good western swing.
He did much better with all the young, including AA and Latino. I ascribe this to the general power of prog. message. Sanders said nothing specially useful to minority voters, imo. Some of his remarks about inner cities offended me
We need all the votes now and from now on. There is no time to wait for the old to die.
Yes, the DNC did cheat Bernie. They cheated him a lot.
But if Sanders had been able to get half the AA vote, he could have won the nomination. He did not connect.
Why is a long story, but the fact remains.
Those who lead the left here will have to address this issue seriously if we are to succeed.
Stein - Baraka
2016
They would simply have cheated more.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
I agree, but it would have been hard to hide
Change the AA vote in NY to 50-50 split, and that crucial primary was even.
Bernie looked too comfortable going into the tank for my liking. I don't believe that he really wanted to win.
My point was meant to be that the next progressive candidate will have to get some of that vote or the Party will win again.
The shennanigans of the DNC weren't the only problem for Bernie down south. As I said above, why he failed with older AA community is a long story. But it is not just about DNC cheating, in my opinion.
Again I think this issue must be faced or we can expect same thing next time. Choice of Baraka a good move if he continues with Green Party after election. thx.
Stein - Baraka
2016
Well, there were also plenty of Rovian
attacks on his civil rights record, topped off by John Lewis, coupled with long-established AA feelings toward white, Jewish landlords (Himeytown!), and efforts to 'smear' him as an atheist among southern AA churches, that didn't do him any good, either.
Yeah, my first reaction to the naming of Baraka as a running mate was "who??" My second reaction was to find out more about him, and I was well pleased.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
Thanks for correcting the record
on the viability of the Democratic Platform.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
Yup. CTRs are easy to spot.
Can I get this Dem platform printed on a roll of toilet paper? Might as well be used for something.
#JillNotHill
Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.
SO easy to see through them
I mean, look at this person, she thinks that by trying to control the discussion with all these WORDS, that somehow, she'll get votes for those people.
This isn't about BICKERING anymore. The Democratic Party and the Democratic National Committee can go fuck themselves repeatedly until they fuck off. All the way.
Get that message through to Orange State, Betty, cuz you'll get nothing but abuse heaped on you at this point. And by FSM, you have earned it.
Nope.
"We dance round in a ring and suppose, But the Secret sits in the middle and knows." - Robert Frost
Sure you can.
Just print it out and throw it in the toilet. Well, don't clog the damn thing, though!
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
Remembering Bushims on T.P.
LOL thanks.
http://www.piehole.net/printed-toilet-paper.html
aww too bad. http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/georgewbush/fl/Bushisms.htm
LOL the truth leaks itself sometimes. Pop quiz! Who was President in 1998? Oops, mmph. What a horrible bad dream this is.
Can I get this Dem platform printed on a roll of toilet paper?
Go for it. Put me down for the largest multi-pack you produce.
Yep COE, you sure can! Here is a handy link!
I actually ordered some years back when I was a labor organizer with the director of our departments face on it and a quote from one of our negotiation meetings.
Working the night shift allowed me to sneak into the bathrooms in the Admin wing and replace some of the rolls with these.
Get your custom T.P. order ready, I may need to order one myself. Maybe we can get a bulk deal? Teepeehee!
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
Damn. There goes my plan to make millions
everything that can be thought of has already been thunk. Hahahah.
Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.
I guess that wipes out that plan...
{Insert juvenile snicker here}
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
Democratic Party Platform is only 1 part
Bernie is already working through OR to apply grassroots pressure to Congress to stop TPP, with many other legislative reforms to follow. All this week they have a big push where they've gotten thousands of people to call Congress to stop TPP.
It's a bifurcated reform approach - reform within the Dem Party and public policy reform via Congress and the WH. Nothing new, the right wing (NRA, Tea Party, etc.) does it all the time, quite successfully. I'm not sure why a few progressives are so reluctant to advocate for good policies, too, but they're entitled to their opinion as we are ours.
For those inclined to bash Bernie, let's engage in our respective styles of activism with mutual respect. You do yours your way, we'll do ours. We won't trash your efforts if you don't trash ours. Sound fair? If you've got a better plan in place, let us know what it is.
"If you can't eat their food, drink their booze, take their money and then vote against them you've got no business being in Congress."
Bernie's not really the one being bashed here.
And one more time for the people in the back row--stop scolding. It's patronizing. And that's being kind.
lunachickie - stop being kind
This bull shit belongs at TOP, not here. Insulting, CTR, and the rest of the scum have no idea what is happening. Why the fuck are the scolds coming here????
All the Wikileaks are FINALLY making it to print and social media - finally!
Heck, Moaning Joe had a field day yesterday.
Today, the Hill is blazing.
Doug Band managed to break thru the MSM barrier - Dog Bless Him
Wall Street Journal, news and opinion are great.
I still find the best links from Drudge, makes me smile to think I'm reading there now!!!
Why the fuck are the scolds coming here????
They were sent by Hellery to shame or convince us to join Her so that Her can pretend to have a mandate and a unified Party.
Over Her rotting c@rc@$$.
Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.
The Great Brock Candy Mountain...
is erupting again.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Just watch:
if by some horrible curse Hillary wins, we will see that she was just mollifying Bernie. The platform is too offensive to her corporate interests to ever be enacted.
Hillary's record as a liar is legion. The facts are there - not rw talking points - facts.
I will not vote for corruption.
I could not agree more.
It will be The Obama Redux. First, she'll quickly engineer the passage of a very narrow piece of legislation. One that seems to signal the start of something good. From that point on, however, it will business as usual for the 1% at the top. But that initial "victory" early in her term will be nothing more than a crumb, because no more will be done. Oh, whatever it is, it will help some. But not many. And no more will be done. "But, Lilly Ledbetter! But, but, but Lilly Ledbetter!!"
Platform? In her best Treasure Of The Sierra Madre voice she will resound "Platform? What platform? We don't need no stinking platform."
"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey
I'm not sure if you are a paid operative
Or merely wasting your time here in some quixotic quest to defend Bernie's honor by lecturing us on the merits of a "grassroots" organization that is slickly being marketed as "Our Revolution", but more than "a few progressives" have moved on Betty and have bigger fish to fry. Nothing personal but Bernie has incriminated himself by association.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Yawn....
I don't know why you people can't get it.
How about writing the truth.
I don't reward thieves. Go write this drivel at the orange shitpile...
What's your plan?
Discard Bernie, the other leaders and their millions of supporters on the progressive left?
Then what? What's the plan? What are the next steps?
"If you can't eat their food, drink their booze, take their money and then vote against them you've got no business being in Congress."
A good *first* step would be, not to build on lies and deception
including self-deception.
You're saying Bernie is a liar and is deceiving people?
If that's the case, then it sounds like the left will be divided and nothing will be accomplished. Interesting how that happens.
When those accuse Bernie of lying have no alternative, no plan, what's next?
"If you can't eat their food, drink their booze, take their money and then vote against them you've got no business being in Congress."
I’m saying Bernie is deceiving *himself*, not just his followers
if he truly thinks every primary contest Hillary “won” was won honestly and fairly.
And if he doesn’t think that, why is he pretending Hillary won the nomination fair and square? And asking his followers to pretend the same?
Betty, this isn't the Daily Kos here n/t
Of course it isn't
They hate Bernie over there. That's why I left.
Just not understanding the Bernie hate here. Hey, we're all angry and frustrated, but you have to move forward. Change things. We may not do it the same way, but we should avoid attacking each other.
"If you can't eat their food, drink their booze, take their money and then vote against them you've got no business being in Congress."
No one is attacking, Betty.
People here are stating facts to you and YOU are the one trying to shame people who believed in Bernie to pick up that gauntlet again. We're not going to do it because we're on to the game, now.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
Betty, Bernie moved sideways
...he refused to take the final step offered to him by Jill to head her ticket and actually
WIN the presidency.
He stepped aside.
Some of us fear her heinous and her intention to whack the hornets nest that is the Middle East more than that powerless ass clown hairball.
Jill never Hill.
If you looked at the
If you looked at the transcript, you'll see that Jill actually did not have the authority to offer Bernie the top spot - she said herself that rules would have to be changed but it was evident that this rule-change wasn't actually in her hands.
I expect that she'd have had to argue the points in a Party which I've heard is full of individualists who tend to get bogged down among their different priorities and outlooks, much as many other left-wing parties do - and she'd have done so with no guarantee of success.
Please also note that Bernie never comes out to say 'vote for Clinton'; when pressed, he tends to point out that he can't tell anyone how to vote; that they should vote their conscience; that he sees nothing wrong with voting 3rd Party, that he ran 3rd Party in the past himself; (an odd way to refer to all of the parties other than the two-party trade-off scam ones) and what a disaster Trump would be.
Sounds like a pretty strong hint to me to vote Green.
Bernie knows that no sane, informed person would vote for Hillary, and also knows that a number of people have been suckered by Trump or can see nobody else to vote for against Hillary, so he does warn against Trump, (with Trump's personal Cheney running as his VP Pence, despite Trump's own tendencies toward lying, cheating and contract-breaking, TPTB might be willing to go with him/sub in his far-religious-right, TPP-supporting VP as President, if Hillary cannot be plausibly cheated in) but if Bernie wants to be in there at all and productively fighting for the people, he has to lay low and go through the motions, just as some did during the Nazi Occupation of their countries, in order to get information out and help to win the war.
And every time Bernie talks about fighting to get Hillary to do something, anything, for the people rather than against them to serve self-interests instead, that familiar feeling of outrage is triggered because we all know where the Clinton's self-interests lie and how they lie themselves. Do you think Bernie doesn't know that? He's keeping what could and should be in the public mind, and reminding them constantly that the Clintons will have to be hopelessly battled every step of the way, keeping the outrage going, rather than passive resignation - all this while 'campaigning for Hillary' in a general election clearly also rigged for her, if it can be made to look at all possible, using more corporate media propaganda.
Bernie may not be Superman, capable of beating powerful international criminal gangs also running the thoroughly corrupted corporate-American government all on his lonesome, but he is the only one who tried within the duopoly on his own honest terms and he did win the actual Dem nomination against the whole works. It took astonishingly blatant levels of cheating and voter suppression for them to cheat him, Americans and the world out of the nomination and Presidency and this clearly revealed the phenomenal spread of corruption throughout the whole works. We'd never have had any idea of the total extent otherwise.
But Bernie never quits, if one tactic fails he tries another until some public good has come to pass, often one thought to be impossible to achieve.
The game was so obviously rigged to the hilt, it would have been counter-productive to fight the proven-faked nomination in the lion's den of the
CoronationConvention with the corporate media monopoly blatantly lying to support the benefactor providing the media concentration levels they achieved with Bill's monopoly legislation, so Bernie used a different strategy to avoid actually conceding to Hillary or releasing his delegates to her and to try gain a position where he could continue to serve the people and so that the one known, undeniably trustworthy person in politics could continue to do so.Bernie always said this was a people's movement, that it was about 'us, not me', although it seems that not everyone thought this through so that some have reacted with bitterness that he was not Superman come to save them.
All Bernie can do is his best, and all those who still fear his actions against corporate/billionaire powers can do is to fan those flames of reactive bitterness by planting accusations of his being 'a sellout' or 'a coward' in the hope that they'll utterly consume the movement and the energy of the disinformed people willing to reject whatever Bernie has planned to aid the cause of actual democracy against a global foe.
Because if this happens in too many cases, the people have lost what looks like not only their last chance at building a democracy in the face of a global hostile corporate take-over, but their last chance of survival.
We non-billionaire 'deplorables' are all just as expendable to TPTB as is the life forming the life-support system of Earth.
*************************************************************
And I've just received a notice from Microsoft on Outlook - on Oct 28th - that the terms are changing as of Sept. 15th? and that my only option is to accept their terms or lose everything stored on there and, having no phone, my only means of communication.
They'll be changing the privacy and other agreements in a manner that, I expect, would have had people transferring everything off long ago - has anyone any recommendations for free inboxes? G-mail's out, of course; the amount of crap going on with emails scans etc. for personalized advertising and whatever. But the Outlook's email system's crap now anyway... I just know nothing about computers and am consequently scared to do anything, lol.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
No one is hating on Bernie.
Some of us are disappointed in him, some of us make assumptions about him that we shouldn't.
But the bottom line isn't about Bernie anymore. It's about keeping a known "pay for play" criminal out of the white house.
They DON'T hate Bernie over there.
(I still lurk on occasion.) Since Bernie failed to stand up for his delegates and supporters at the convention they love Bernie over there. Any number of them apologized for ever having doubted him.
They hate us over there for declining the invitation to drink the special extra strength kool-aid they prepared just for Bernie and us.
Do you expect us to put more weight on the words in a platform, when presidents have never been bound by party platforms, than in Hillary's choice of Tim Kaine for her running mate?
Deliberately or inadvertently you are participating in a last ditch effort to play on the high regard many of us have for things Bernie has done over decades to get a few more votes for Hillary.
Democratic Platform has a section
proclaiming Dem. love for Native peoples and huge respect for their land.
Doesn't seem to be helping the pipeline protestors much.
One candidate was there.
Hint: Baraka was there too.
Stein - Baraka
2016
What do you mean "no plan"? Greens have a platform, etc..
You say "no alternative" like there is none. Well I guess if you're back in D.C. playing the inside game then you would think in those terms. But I am not there. I respect you and Bernie both and reserve the right to bitch when I can't cash-in and keep going like other inside-connected people. I'm not alone going over the edge soon I think, doesn't feel like it from the bottom quarter or third. Mmm, cake.
I'm voting for Jill Stein, she has real solutions not tinkering around Wall Street gutters. Forgive student debt? Hell yeah because http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016/10/nomi-prins-hillary-clinton-will-continue-the-big-bank-protection-racket.html,
~deep sigh~
Peace
Great! Go for it!
But can't you do it without trashing those of us working with Bernie? Mutual respect and all...
Focus on the opposition, not us.
"If you can't eat their food, drink their booze, take their money and then vote against them you've got no business being in Congress."
No one is trashing you for working with Bernie, Betty.
You are trashing us for not being willing to work with Bernie while he is a tool for the DNC.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
My plan for the Green Party
1. Strive for instant run-off voting. This would allow a person to vote for a minor party candidate without hurting the chances of ones favored major party candidate. IRV is a ballot initiative this November for the state of Maine. Sam Smith (prorev.com) said that teabag Gov. LePage would not have won under an IRV system.
2. Strive to change the presidential debate participation rules to include any candidate that is qualified for the ballot in enough states to win. I heard this idea from Jesse Ventura being interviewed by Cenk Uyger.
"We dance round in a ring and suppose, But the Secret sits in the middle and knows." - Robert Frost
The idea that voting 3rd party
hurts the "good" main party candidates is a complete lie. Stop spreading a lie.
If you want to get the duopoly to do anything to benefit the people, you have no choice but to vote 3rd party, because the duopoly does not listen to the people. When you vote for the duopoly, even after they work completely against you, then you are just as guilty of their crimes against the people as they themselves are.
Give 'em HELL, Thaumlord!
Give 'em HELL, Thaumlord!
Oh, wait, you're just telling the truth, and they think it's hell! Shades of Harry Truman!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
I am not saying he is a liar but...
He did say on national tv that Hillary won fair and square.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton_us_57...
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.
lying liars
Then he's a lying liar, at least while lying that particular big honkin' lie.
And in a place where the plain, honest truth would have served him and us far better, too.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
I agree completely
with you Betty. As a septuagenarian (I'm older than Bernie) who has participated in and observed the black activist movement for 50+ years, I know that sometimes you have to retreat and regroup and come back from a different angle. Just ask the myriad black political prisoners who have been languishing in jail for 40+ years. I worked very hard for Bernie in 3 states and donated all I could and I still respect him in spite of his surrender. It's disappointing to visit these progressive blogs and read all the Bernie bashing. If someone has a better plan, go for it! I'll support you. But please, stop the Bernie bashing.
Thanks. I know where you're coming from
Bernie fought harder than any politician in modern times. He did his best and he's regrouping and continuing the attack from a different approach.
People on the left are free to disagree, but they should try to pursue their own agenda without trying to tear down another. The problem, IMO, is that many want an "instant" new movement. They want all the Bernie supporters to suddenly switch loyalty to them and fund their organization. But they don't have a plan or an organization. People don't follow movements with no goals, no plan, no accountability.
"If you can't eat their food, drink their booze, take their money and then vote against them you've got no business being in Congress."
Bernie fought but folded,
so he didn't have the backbone I thought he did. The corporations will win - bottom line, Betty. You need to face reality - our elections are a sham. Unless the people rise up, we will be living in a militarized country by 2020. It's already happening or do you not see it?
What do you have to say about the wikileaks dumps and Podesta emails? If you are not outraged then you are drinking the koolaid and have no credibility. Be discerning - be a critical thinker. Don't just swallow the party line hook line and sinker lest you wish to be a sheeple.
Have a beautiful day!
edited for infernal typo
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
We really, really disagree about Bernie
But have a nice day!
"If you can't eat their food, drink their booze, take their money and then vote against them you've got no business being in Congress."
You will find most here
disagree with you about Bernie. You might glean that if you read the comments.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
If they read, they might get pulled away
from the Orange Propaganda.
Can't have that, I guess...
Sad to hear things evolved this way
We need to develop new places for Bernie supporters to hang out. They're pretty much gone now, taken over by competing factions pushing their own agendas.
I'm giving up on most political forums these days. There's so much hate and irrational anger from various factions, most often directed at Bernie and his supporters. Better to stay active in the real world and wait until after the election to come back to liberal political forums. Or start new ones in more productive communities.
"If you can't eat their food, drink their booze, take their money and then vote against them you've got no business being in Congress."
Good luck with that.
If by 'Bernie supporters' you mean those who also support Hillary.
A small and shrinking population if there ever was one.
Hell, I doubt even Bernie's wife Jane would fit your transparently cramped definition.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Pretty sad, I don't support Hillary
Why resort to that old ad hom?
I'd say I stand right where Jane Sanders stands. As do most other Bernie supporters. Moving forward, liking Bernie, wanting to work with him.
Insulting and attempting to humiliate Bernie and his supporters is a strange way to support him. Feel free to vent and attack, but yeah, Bernie supporters need their own forum.
"If you can't eat their food, drink their booze, take their money and then vote against them you've got no business being in Congress."
Bernie endorsed and campaigns for Hillary.
If you support Bernie then you must be supporting his choice for President, no?
Or are you voting for Jill?
Also, I don't think ad hom means what you think it means.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
support Bernie?
No. I'm voting for the candidate I trust to really be for the things Bernie was for in his primary run. That's Jill Stein, of course.
Like so many of the rest of us here on c99, I don't trust today's Bernie Sanders to still be for those things. But I also remain miles from convinced that the Vermont Senator is a free moral actor at this point. I snuff a very strong smell indeed of duress.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Fly away, Betty Pinson
If you think you're going to peel away C99% members to your cause, think again. You'll have more success going elsewhere. Although, in light of today's FBI developments, I doubt you'll get enough pro-Dem party "Working Together" types to fill a Hillary rally in a room the size of a janitor's closet.
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