Clinton Campaign: Russians hacking DNC! Trying to influence our elections!
Are we talking about acts of war?
Should America launch retaliatory measures?
Such is the patent nonsense we've been hearing lately in the MSM that way too many former Bernie supporters have been taking way too seriously.
For the record, what is the actual truth we are dealing with?
The first morsel of truth we should be aware of is that all governments around the world that are major players in international affairs have for quite some time been doing their utmost to perfect their abilities to both 1) hack into the secure sites of other countries and 2) protect themselves from the same.
It would indeed be utterly insane for them to not do so.
Another truth: there has not been a time since WWII when the United States has not made an effort to influence the elections of other nations if/when it (the CIA) perceived that it would be in America's interests to do so.
Our political leaders have consistently shown that they are not above doing such things. We have a long history of not only fomenting political revolutions/insurrections in other states, but also of attempting to arrange the assassination of leaders of other countries when we thought it would be in our interests.
Given these indisputable facts re: our political history, it is indeed profoundly hypocritical for American politicians to now declare that efforts by other countries to do the same thing to us are both outrageous and alarming.
These expressions of outrage---dutifully repeated by the MSM---are beyond disingenuous; they are indeed purely manipulative in nature, directed at a domestic audience for two identifiable reasons: 1) to get Her elected, and 2) to start building up public support for Her plans to start challenging Russia as our 'enemy' once she takes office.
The Clinton team understands that, when you make an accusation of this sort, you are insinuating that you are not guilty of precisely the same thing you are accusing others of (well, cuz you are so outraged and everything).
Kind of like when the Clinton campaign artfully smeared B. Sanders with their accusation that he was artfully smearing Her majesty.
The ultimate truth is that since forever all nations have always tried to influence the outcome of elections in other countries if 1) they believe their vital interests are at stake, and 2) they have the means to do so.
The only thing that has changed over the past 40 years is that influencing the elections of other countries is much easier now than it used to be.
Back in the day, it usually involved getting spies/agents in the target country and then finding ways to get money to the political opposition in ways that are not detectable. Now days, with the Internet dominating the news stream, it is a much more achievable ambition to pursue.
.
So is Russia trying to influence our election? Probably. Should that news/possibility be grounds for us to utterly reject whomever they might prefer to see as President, instead? Not if you have a brain in your head.
After all, there is always the possibility that the interests another country might be trying to protect might actually dovetail with the actual interests of the American people.
Think of Germany in the 1930's. It would have indeed been rational for other countries to try to influence the political environment in that country to turn the public against Hitler.
It was clearly a time when the interests of 'outsiders' (e.g., the USSR) did dovetail with the actual interests of the German people (4-8 million of them lost their lives).
It just so happens that this is the same reality we are dealing with at the present moment.
The Russians are clearly afraid of the possibility that a President Hillary Clinton---based on her political history and her recent No Fly Zone proposal---could end up provoking a nuclear showdown with them.
They understandably want to avoid that. This very legitimate concern also happens to dovetail with the actual interests of the American people at this particular moment in time.
So no, this is not a time when Bernie Sanders supporters should be rallying around Her out of a concern that the Russians might be hoping to influence the outcome of our November election.
I would suggest that they respond in precisely the opposite way.
They need to understand that the Russians do indeed want to see Hillary lose the election for the same sane reasons why we should all be hoping that she will lose: to save our country from the horrifying possibility of a nuclear war occurring due to 1) miscalculation on her part, and 2) her obsession with seeing Russia as America's Enemy.
They should know better that the Clinton campaign's utterances cannot be taken at face value and they cannot be trusted as legitimate statements of fact. With the Clintons, you always have to look behind the simple words they use to discover their real purposes & intent.
There is still time.
We may yet be able to save ourselves with a bit of luck...
Comments
Nice James
Well said and to the point. I'll have to send this to some hillbots I know. If you hear some popping sounds it's their little heads exploding....
Well said and to the point.
I'll second that.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
Bernie supporters that moved to her are fools.
I question their commitment to the policy values he was trying to bring into government. The only difference between Hillary and Trump is that he's really dumb. The only difference between Republicans and Democrats is that the Dems pretend to care about the middle class.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
So true, DK...
One would think that this should be supremely apparent to the majority of those who supported Bernie's campaign, but his spoken support for Hillary muddied that up quite a bit.
If he hasn't been feeling some regrets about his decisions since June by now, he surely will by next summer...
James Kroeger
Still another silly micro-tweak
I'd tweak that to say:
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
I question Bernie's committment to them
since he his actively campaigning for her and her policies. Which means Bernie was lying about Social security, about wall street, about TPP. He is campaigning for the woman that wants all those destructive changes.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Me too...
However,politicians have self-interest as a motive and/or cover. Everybody has has nothing to gain from supporting her.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I know there are some that have moved to Her
but honest to God, I have yet to talk to one in Real Life. Every last Bernie voter I know is saying the same thing you are:
I'm willing to bet the media is lying about that, too. Just sayin'--don't change a thing here, because ANY Bernie supporter moving to Her needs to read it within this framing. But please do take heart, I truly do not believe there are near as many as is made out to be. IMO, it's a huge exaggeration to make you vote for Her.
MANY former Bernie supporters in my little
more or less progressive town, have moved to Her. Friends of mine. (maybe). People I respected, looked up to. And, of course, are trying to shame me to do so. One of them, I share a well with. I anticipate future problems in that regard.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
I'm thinking
that it surely must depend on where you live. Where you are, is it predominantly blue? That's the only thing I can figure, I'm in the middle of the north Florida red zone....
Yes, in my little town, Bisbee, a blue dot in a red state.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
It's utterly confounding Bisbonian. Same for me, so many...
When the Primary was over I wrote a mass email to maybe 60 friends representing all parts of my life. Explained why in no uncertain terms I would not be voting for HRC, reminded folks of all my (and most of their) misgivings of her and empathically said this represented the end of my involvement with electoral politics, for which Bernie represented a last ditch return after Obama sold me out as a volunteer who traveled to four States for him.
I heard back from two friends who early on during the primary answered my invitations to either phone bank for Bernie or attend rallies. One said his belief in Bernie compelled him for the first time in his life to volunteer. He was at the opening of the Brooklyn office and was prepared to honor the request to go out from the event and canvass locally for Bernie. I was amazed and encouraged to see and hear this childhood friend's enthusiasm. When we parted we agreed to get together to canvass together if time permitted. He answered my aforementioned email with a sheepish one sentence that ended with ", but..."
Another met me down at Zuccotti Park where OWS activists and campaign operatives were hosting a Bernie phone bank. Was pretty well-attended and in the cold early Spring air we sat outside, invigorated with the history of the radical spirit of Occupy flowing through the assembled, and made calls to specific states. It was that day that I had a half hour conversation with a lukewarm Hillary supporter in Florida, who got her information from the MSM but who when challenged to go deeper showed, as most do, a socialist spirit based on fairness, equality and universal humanity. My friend also wrote a reply saying something like Bernie is voting for HRC.
One of the most disconcerting was an Occupy activist who was hands down one of the brightest and most cogent thinkers I had met in the course of meeting so many likewise brilliant folks participating in that movement. He and his girlfriend, another activist, came over to visit our baby for the first time recently. I could not believe him putting forth this gotta-beat-Trump malarkey. Said he didn't think the election was stolen, and when I talked Jill up his stance was that she has no governing experience. I was agape.
I have two old best friends I've known for a very long time and consider like family. Haven't talked much to them lately, especially the one who in the 80's fancied himself a small-time real state magnate. He had maybe 5 books in his whole house, 3 were Trump's. His life spirit is great, he's extremely funny and an amazing guitarist, We never talked politics when we were younger, and in the past few years when we do he's appeared to me to be a weird mix of Libertarian, RW fiscal conservative, socially progressive bizarrely, basically he's out for himself but doesn't realize how even RW small guvmint and grandstanding about saving small business is all a lie. I'm off FB for a while now, but the other friend told me he posted some crazy RW fascist point that anyone who burns or defaces the American flag should be imprisoned, while casting aspersions on Kaepernick. I told my friend that if I had time I would take my infant son out into the park, dressed in a #7 San Fran jersey and have him holding the lighter as I lit up the stars and stripes especially for him. For that comment, the other friend replied "this is why I love you." But our last conversation, which are always these great, intense, impassioned debates (he's a lawyer with 5 kids), mostly centered around stopping Trump. (face palm)
It goes on and on like this. Friends, musicians, who I work with all filled with and spouting this great FEAR. What if Trump gets in? You were wrong about Trump not being able to get the nomination (I held out to the end that the inner Repug cabal, which probably doesn't exist, would not accept it and act to sink him). Do you have any idea what a revolution really means, one said, whose girlfriend is from Russia and who admitted to me that her great grandparents were involved in the bloody revolution there. None of these MFers (I say affectionately) are getting the real news, have really got a handle on how deep and interconnected all the transgressions, corruption and influence-peddling the Clintons are actively participating in, and moreover just how transparent this makes our vaunted democracy, that it more than ever before can not be ignored as a playground for the oligarchy, the reason for the Revolving Door in DC and the reason why the 99% is completely utterly ignored because the looting and pillaging must continue, according to their donors who call the shots on everything.
Best thing I've heard contrary to all this mind-numbing, contemptuous garbage from people I love and respect was pausing at the entrance of the club I work at to talk with the bouncer and his friend. Two young black dudes, I overheard, going off on how they don't like Hillary. One told me he bought a t-shirt that said "Panderer" with a picture of her on it. The other one said something similar.
Still see more Bernie stickers here, though there's an ever so slight uptick now that it's only days away from this heinous election, of HRC stickers around here. In fact, up until a couple of weeks ago, folks in my neighborhood still had their Bernie campaign signs in their windows and on their lawns!
I'm still holding out on getting in touch with one big Bernie musician friend of mine who joined me very early on to march in that amazing Bernie march organized outside of the campaign by folks purely moved by his searing truth-telling and progressive platform program. If he's "With Her" now I'm going to lose it.
I'll say this: there's many deep academic studies waiting to be written about this pathetic epoch in American history, specifically the powerful effects of propaganda, how the MSM and social media was co-opted by paid operatives, the degree to which the complicit and lapdog media created this beneficial scenario for Hillary and conspired to bring down Bernie, and the voter suppression and electoral fraud in the Dem Primary.
"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:
THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"
- Kurt Vonnegut
Make this an essay
Just my opinion
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
I hadn't even gotten to the bottom and I was planning on posting
that exact same sentiment Steven.
That was one great piece of writing.
Kudos to the author!
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
I always used to wonder
how in the hell the German people fell for it...
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
Fear is a powerful tool in the hands of those who
understand how to wield it. Always has been, always will be. That's where a strong and non-partisan Fourth Estate is needed as a counterweight. Obviously, we no longer have that ballast here.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti
I'm pretty sure all my "liberal" friends
will vote for HER. They know my stance, and I will not do it. One is disabled, divorced and has a 9 year old daughter - she's scared of Trump's misogyny.... She also started to buy in to one of Shillary's PR scams about how SHE would make sure that the disabled can work for less than minimum wage - my friend's stance was that she could then get some type of job but not lose her SSDI. I reminded her, gently, that Shillary is ONLY promising right now and she should not buy into that. She's on board there and knows Shillary is full of shit, but fear of Trump will drive her to vote Shill. A co-worker will not vote for Shill, but she'll leave the POTUS part blank out of fear that her down-ballot votes may not be counted if she votes Green. The rest of them will no doubt vote Shill as they only get "news" from the MSM and most are simply tired and disgusted with this entire election.
Only good note is that the a few of the Republicans I know will not vote Trump, but I'm not real sure about the rest of them and since I don't want to hear that mess, I won't ask. I am a ranter, and they all know not to get me started on politics. I try where I can to persuade, but I know I'm not really getting through. The ones who'll vote for Shillary accept that she is corrupt but their attitude is like far too many in this country right now - we know about the corruption and we cannot change it. Sigh. In many ways I heartily agree with them there, it will take massive effort to change this system, but I won't participate anymore in enabling that system either.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
Well, I have a deep suspicion that there may be many more
people that are going to vote for Trump once they are in that private booth than will admit to it.
And honestly? I don't blame them in the slightest.
I have seen some truly despicable behavior be "Liberals" this election, up to and including calls of or actual acts of violence. (Was subject to one myself simply for saying I would NEVER vote for Hillary and explaining why.)
There was the hypocrisy of that crazy lady fucking with the Hillary Clinton statue that someone made as a counter point to the Trump MicroPenis one (Apparently it is ok with liberals to do sexist stuff as long as it is against the right sex.) to people keying a car with a Trump sticker on it! (I took a picture of their car/plate when they drove away after I yelled at them and left a note on the victims car offering to text them the photo if they wanted to report it to the police but never heard back.)
These so called liberals are at least as bad as the fucking Teajadists nutjobs on the right and even if they switched directions tomorrow I would never rejoin their party.
They have already revealed the true color of their souls, and it is this weird, icky toxic brown sludge of hate.....
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
I know one. My Grandson. But he has diagnosis from mental
health professionals that have used him as a science experiment for years.
The rest, no. At least, not that they've told me. I was thinking about it and they know how I feel about Mrs. Money-Grubbing War Whore and they might not tell me.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
LUCKY Luna!
Well, aren't you the lucky one! Have you considered purchasing a Powerball ticket?
Your humble scribe's real life is teeming with ex-Bernie supporters who are now backing Her Heinous! Mostly because of "scary Trump".
Groan!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Heh--like I said, I live in north Reddistan, FLA
where the blue is hard to find anyway. But I'll tellya, even among my bluest friends, not a damn one of them is falling for that woman's bullshit. I'm sorry your life is teeming with them, though...
It ain't much different down here in SW Florida either Luna.
This place is pretty mellow and generally more of a purple than red section as far as general social attitudes go if not voting and I only know 1 ex Sanders supporter who is going to hold his nose and vote Clinton.
Somewhat to my surprise not a single one of the female Sanders backers I know are supporting her, the general consensus is, "Of course we want a woman president, but one that isn't going to fuck it up for every woman that runs after her."
One want on an amazingly strong rant about how a Clinton presidency will set back women in American politics by a generation that was really hard to find flaw in.
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
"Of course we want a woman president,
but one that isn't going to fuck it up for every woman that runs after her."
I wish I could put that up on a billboard in town.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
Rural Texas where I live . . .
My Bernie supporter friends are not voting HRC except one. I hope she changes her mind, but she lives in a retirement community that is insanely for Trump, so her perspective is different. When I saw her last I said that I respect her opinion, but I can't vote for HRC because I watched the primary being stolen in real time, and that I am done with war. And climate change of course.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
I think many of Bernie's
supporters (and contributors) have moved to Hillary. At least, my three closest friends (all former Sanders enthusiasts) will vote for her, and all of them for basically the same reason: An extreme antipathy to Donald Trump and what he represents to them. None of them like Clinton much, two can barely tolerate her, but all three have a visceral fear, bordering on panic, of Trump - and to a lesser extent, of the Republican Party in general.
In outlining here, and enumerating the many valid reasons HRC should not be elected, we must also recognize the near-certainty that if she is not elected, then Trump will be. That's a stone cold fact, whether anybody votes for Stein or not. My friends are simply not willing to chance that outcome. "Better the devil you know..." is probably what they're thinking.
I do disagree with them, and I do analyze the political (especially the global) situation very differently. But I do not find their position to be totally irrational or irredeemably ignorant. And I'm certainly not willing to sacrifice valuable friendships for the sake of how somebody votes in a stupidly hopeless election. Whatever happens in the near future, we're going to need friends to see us through it.
native
Are your three former Sander's friends,
…who now support Hillary — are they broad-sprectrum, feel-good "Liberals?"
Are they actively fighting for specific Issues? Or are they generally Party "Democrats?"
Do any of them stand on the hard anti-war "Left?"
What do you think their number one priority is — what "Progressive" achievement do they expect to see enacted because they voted for Hillary?
........
Friend A: Radical far left, life-long revolutionist. Semi-survivalist. Maverick. Cynical. Influential & involved in local community. Well informed on domestic issues, less so on foreign affairs.
Friend B: Largely a-political. Deeply compassionate, practical, responsible, thoughtful. Favors Socialism.
Friend C: Passionate environmental activist. Initiator of projects & campaigns. Knows many local, State, & national Democratic officials . Fairly well off. Effective. Very anti-right wing.
Of course they're all anti-war. Maybe not "hard Left", whatever that is. I'd say they generally expect things to maybe not get disastrously worse under Hillary. Friend A thinks she might be able to kick Republican ass, since she's even meaner and nastier than they are.
native
Political anthropology. It's what I do.
Thank you for taking the time to respond.
Mostly I was looking at the four bolded words: Left, Liberal, Democrat, Progressive. Trying to draw distinctions between them.
My guess is that 85 percent of the people voting for Hillary think of themselves as simply "Democrats". They don't need any other words.
They are probably aware that their needs are no longer represented at the Federal level. That means they are likely members of the middle class, the worker classes, the retired poor, younger adults living with their parents, caregivers, blacks, students and academics, the working poor, and the economically stable middle class with soul-sucking jobs. Their motivation to vote Democratic has been laid bare in 2016: Fear or habit. (Hope kicked the bucket long ago and Hillary is beside the point.)
They get nothing out of voting in 2016, long term or short.
Among the remaining 15 percent who are voting for Hillary are well-to-do Democrats and the Democrats who are cheering for more bloodsport in the brown world. These two groups feel integrated with the Party. They're living the dream.
The rest — it sounds like your friends are among them — are the Hillary voters who are the most likely to also use the words progressive, liberal, or left to describe their agenda or themselves. These folks do have some representation at the Federal level because they are politically engaged. Many of them are activists pushing important domestic issues.
Those who are championing domestic issues that do not cost money — like transgender bathrooms or legalized pot — will have the best fortune. Their votes for Hillary will pay off.
The ones who are championing epic issues that cost a lot of money — like climate crisis, transportation infrastructure, public-funded higher education, or national health care — will not see much progress at all. Every available Federal dollar has already been ear marked for Empire's wars. The smart actifvists already know this. They are voting for Hillary because they have nowhere else to go — Trump is evil and the Greens are penniless.
Almost all of them are against war. Also. Which is a position that is not supported by the Democratic Party.
::
Antiwar™ does not mean the same thing as "against war." It is not the opposite of pro-war. It's not an incremental bargaining chip or daydream. People who are antiwar™ will not be voting for Hillary. There is nothing Hillary can do or say to change that. Not even "USA!, USA!, USA!"
When I said "hard" Left, I was referring to people who will not compromise on matters of life and death that are ideologically generated. Putting a stop to that is the First Priority, before the first vote is cast. On the "hard" Left, there are only two types of people in the world: Socialists and Sociopaths.
::
Your friends sound really interesting and colorful. These are dynamic people. I truly enjoyed your descriptions. Again, thanks for indulging my questions.
In the end, I failed to find a clear distinctions between the terms Left, Progressive, and Liberal — but I did learn that the word "Democrat" does not belong with the other three.
Up thumb,
on your opening line.
Then read the body and wish I could give you more!
peace
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
I agree with all of your
I agree with all of your comment except this:
I think 1) Trump is actually more liberal than Hillary on some things, such as war and losing jobs to overseas and 2) Trump is smarter than he appears. I believe he talks the language of his ardent supporters, who are often not the college level educated.
If Hillary has a brain, its hard to tell if she uses it, because she has already done some really dumb stuff and unfortunately will continue to do more dumb stuff if other [dumb] voters choose to hire her!
New edict.
Henceforth, anyone not supporting clinton will be considered Russian by default. Deplorable, basement dwelling, email hacking, election subverting Russians.
You are all on notice.
That's basically what we are talking about, right?
It's amazing how they've been able to keep up the Russia is a Threat to America meme when there is no basis for it whatsoever. The Russian government is not supporting any ideology that seeks the violent overthrow of the U.S. government, is not threatening our borders, is not threatening us in any way.
It's not even a communist country any more. There is absolutely no rational reason why America should continue to be a member of NATO. The European Union has a larger population than the U.S. and a larger GDP than the U.S. and it has the nuclear weapons it needs to defend itself from any conceivable enemy (e.g., Russia).
There is absolutely no reason to put American lives on the line to protect Europe from the threats that warmongers imagine in their fevered minds, but which actually do not exist.
James Kroeger
The Big Lie is alive and well
and living inside the TVs to which we apparently are all addicted...
Whether by declarative statement or simple omission, it is the Big Lie just the same. We are indeed living in a post-truth world.
I gave up teevee in June.
Best decision to date.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
We havent had a TV
for about 5 years now. It's so much better not having the fake fear and hate news and propaganda in the house 24 hours a day. I don't even bother reading or watching videos from the 'establishment' news sites. I'm amazed at the so called progressive Bernie supporters I know that are going to vote for her. They seem to have no interest in taking a good look at what the Clinton's and the Democratic party are about. Misplaced fear which I guess makes it easier to believe what Bernie says about the Democratic platform being the most progressive ever. lol. Do they not read anything that interferes with the newsspeak nightmare version of reality they have adopted as the truth? They also must believe in the totally unbelievable story line of the Russians are coming. Putin is the latest Goldstien now that they killed Bin Laden. Fear rules the day. Why doesn't Killary scare them? They like the Bush deadenders do not want to know the truth.
10 years for me
gave away my last TVs before digital.
I house sat for a week last winter for some friends and turned on their TV. There were some new talking heads, the ones still there were a lot older under the pancake makeup, but the non-stop lies were the same. The commercials were just as dreadful as they used to be, no progress at all.
On the other hand, one channel carried reruns of Bonanza. That Ben Cartwright, he always had the situation under control.
"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone
One of the attractions of TV, for its devotees,
is that it never changes. It is a comforting sameness. The "news" propagandists are mostly the same although, as you noted, they are aging. Whatever happens in the election, Black Friday will still be after Thanksgiving, all your favorite sitcom families will celebrate Xmas and then the Super Bowl will be played. There will be new threats to be afraid of but the rhythm of "life" will continue as always.
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
And the Two Minutes Hate comes on every evening
at the same time...
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
Well, you know, it's about Empire
…and blocking the rise of Russia, China, and Eurasia. It's about defeating the emergence of a multipolar world.
We've been on the Neocon war march for a long time, irregardless of elections. The Neocons run the permanent Federal Government from the highest positions of State, Defense, Intel, and at top levels of advisory agencies like the Council on Foreign Relations. All without oversight because there is none. They generate the classified documents and hide behind them.
If people don't understand the Neocon's goals, then they don't understand Hillary's goals, and the goals of any elected president who comes up from the inside, regardless of Party.
[edit=typo]
Not a threat to you and me and what I'd like to se our govt...
Start working towards: green new deal, end Middle East wars/forever war, work feverishly to end our dependence on ANY fossil fuels. As for the quite different story that is the policy goals of TPTB in our country, isn't the proxy war occurring in Syria & Iraq + all the Saudi meddling in surrounding nations to do mainly with which competing pipeline is built that would either allow Russia or one of its allies in the ME to supply Europe with liquid natural gas(LNG) vs cutting them off and having one of our allies in the region supply Europe with LNG? Also, aren't we in a global Dr. Evilian competition with Russian over supposed vast underground fossil fuel resources underneath the quickly disappearing ice of the North Pole? There are posters imminently more informed on these matters than me, so I hope more light may be shed on these 2 particular points.
Voting Jill, fear Trump presidency just about as much as a Hillary one!
Haven't they been doing that
Haven't they been doing that ever since WW2 ended?
I don't think that anyone since (as in who exactly was afraid of Communism ?possibly starting a socialist trend among Americans and this reducing industry profiteering? and started 'the Cold War'?) has sought '...the violent overthrow of the U.S. government, is not threatening our borders, is not threatening us in any way...' or that there's been any 'rational reason' for any attacks on other countries except 'to protect American business interests' at everyone else's expense.
Follow the money and power-seeking corporations and billionaires - such as those involved in the hostile global corporate take-over known as (the Bush initiated, Clinton-promoted and Obama-pushed Trojan Horse) 'trade deals' offshoring domestic law in all involved countries and into a corporate/billionaire's lawyers court. The first one to be passed right after Her Royal Coronation and the rest Fast-Tracked All Ready for Americorp Sectional Management CEO Hillary.
She's promised them the world.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
You really need to make that into a meme!
Throw it in front of a picture of Hillary looking severe with full crazy eye mode going (Shouldn't be hard to find) and you got a viral image on your hand.
Send it to me, I sure as hell will post it. That was a great line.
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
Influence elections?
We don't do that. We just arm the insurgents.
"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage
When it's convenient.
If the insurgents are not convenient to US interests then the repressive government is trained on how to torture and kill them. If perchance the movement succeds, even if it is by democratical elections, then we work to destabilize their government. If everything else fails we go ahead and kill the incumbents along with poets, singers, students and anyone who supported them. Then we install a puppet who will go along with US interests.
Rinse, lather, repeat.
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.
And in the case of Hillary,
And in the case of Hillary, support the kidnapping and forcible removal of any democratically elected leader acting in the interest of his people and country, rather than that of American business interests.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Thanks to Pluto's Republic - comment from another essay
The more you listen to this guy's words...
...in context, the more level-headed and sane he seems to be.
I'm not seeing what it is that we're supposed to be afraid of...
James Kroeger
THAT
Would be her we should be afraid of, James. Nice post and thanks.
peace
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
I agree JK
but no matter how level headed or sane he is, you can look at his face and clearly see this is not a man you want to be playing the school yard bully game with. There is a very good chance you would get your ass handed back to you.
R.E.S.P.E.C.T.
Something no longer assumed from gov. here, toward its compliant taxpayers, its semi-ferals or most nations of the world.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Yep -
that is exactly what I thought when I listened. *sigh*
I started Russia watching at time of Ukraine coup.
I saw a video on youtube of Maiden protesters throwing petrol bombs (Malatov Cocktails) at unarmed policemen before all the shooting started. Nuland said that the protesters were peaceful and included grandmothers. Something didn't add up. Or those grandmothers had some mean throwing arms.
I began to actually read and listen to what Putin was saying and what he did. At that time the demonization was well under way. But it was apparent that the actual Putin was different than the fantasy demon Putin being created by the American mass media and establishment.
The issue became not what Putin was doing or doing, but the effect and direction of propaganda against him. In many ways, I don't care what Putin does. I am more concerned how we the American people are being manipulated by the propaganda and where it will all lead to us Americans.
I have noticed that much of anti-Putin propaganda is based on what I call Putin-mind reading. I have read pundit pieces tell us definitively what Putin is up to without any shred of evidence to back up any claims. For example, Putin is a Stalinist even though he condemned Stalin. No really, the pundit knows the mind of Putin without having to read his statements in either Russian or English. So any evil intention ascribed to Putin is accepted as fact.
But again, too late now. The American establishment had to create an evil force, and Russia was handy. The deal has been sealed. And god help us with the implications of what this leads to.
The important thing to note is Russia did not invade Ukraine.
They did not invade in the East, West, or Crimea. The US lost all their satellite photos of the invasion and cannot produce one.
Kiev and Eastern Ukraine was not attacked by anyone.
All fighting took place in West Ukraine which has been ethnic Russian for more than a century. They are under attack by the new NeoNazi government installed by the US, because they held a referendum and voted to become an autonomous state in Ukraine. The ethnic Russians have been exterminated by the NeoNazis ever since.
Finally, Russia and West Ukraine were not responsible for shooting down Malaysia Airways' flight MH17 in 2014. That was US propaganda pushed out of the New York Times. Once again, the US lost their satellite photos of the incident.
The US propaganda was finally debunked this summer:
For those interested: The dissection of the propaganda fraud.
A detail I didn't know:
Kind of sounds like "my body cam malfunctioned right before the shooting, but it started working again a few minutes after."
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
VICE News:
RUSSIA INVADES UKRAINE!! RUSSIA INVADES UKRAINE!!
Day 1, Day 2, Day 3.
That was the first I'd heard of VICE news and I saw that headline. They kept using it with Day 1, Day 2, etc., all thru 50 days or so. I was telling people, um, VICE news looks kinda like propaganda.
VICE is a US propaganda mouthpiece.
One of the most active. They are widely used as a source by the news media because they offer a layer of deniability.
Ukrainian Nazis basically ethnic cleansing of Russians
After the violent coup of Yushchenko, the ethnic Russians in the East peacefully protest, and where shot up by the new regime. They didn't get to vote. Instant civil war. From what I understand, about a million ethnic Russians have fled into Russia itself. About as big a refugee crisis with Syria. Everyday pretty much the Ukraine government is shelling civilian areas in Donbass. Now the Russians are helping the Donbass resistance, but as for some invasion, didn't happen. If it did, the troops would be in Kiev by now given the horrid state of the corrupted military.
But also unfortunately, the people also paying the price are everyday Ukrainians who must live in a failed state and economy while the Ukrainian oligarchs live high off the hog of corruption (which anti-Russian pundits of course blame on Russia).
I think you got
east/west reversed there - but otherwise, spot on.
native
thanks for the correction native.
I cannot think of a single American statesman
with the intelligence and historical knowledge of Putin coupled with his ability to give highly reasoned, unscripted honest responses - all w/o the use of a teleprompter.
BTW, Inessa S has a done a great job of translating Putin's comments.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeix8jbmQnS6FprsJIsjVyQ
Now, that was an extraordinary video of Putin analyzing
…the the key cultural differences between the US and Russia. He correctly classifies Americans as a colonized people rather than indigenous people, as the Russians and Europeans are. This important insight has stood out, for me, for many years. It really explains so much about the present moment.
But the way that Putin makes the point shows great heart. In the end he insists that the US and Russia are spiritually bonded. It's a point he often makes. He believes that Americans and Russians are destined to work together to resolve problems faced by the world. And that together they will make the world a much better place for all mankind. He sincerely believes in America because of what our countries have achieved together historically.
Interestingly, I've heard the Chinese President express the same sentiment many times over the years, with a kind of fondness.
Hey guys! Russia and China think we have a lot of potential!
This video is worth a watch.
As I was listening to that his statements I couldn't help but
think that Putin, who is definetly not a good person, and is indeed a depot, also sounded like more of a statesman then any of our political class at the higher levels.
How fucking sad and pathetic is that?
I am not afraid of Russia, I am afraid of what "Our" oligarchs might very well start with their oligarchs.
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
What is the bad thing that Putin did
…that turned him into a "depot?"
I have always wondered, and didn't know who to ask.
He was originally going to be
more of a 'hub', but then had delusions of grandeur.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
Putin made his bones by crushing Chechnya, for one
Many people say Putin staged false-flag terrorist attacks and blamed them on Chechnyans to justify total crackdown.
Chechnyan resistance started out as a nationalistic, anti-Russian-Empire, Caucasus independence movement and only went Islamic fundamentalist after Yeltsin and then Putin devastated the place, with no one in the outside world protesting or helping them except Islamic fundamentalists.
Little known fact. Douglas Feith ran the 2nd Chechnyan war.
He was the Vicky Neuland of that time. And a grand master of the false flag. He perfected it in Yugoslavia during the Clinton years.
Putin didn't exist until then. But after centuries of fighting, Putin finally brought it to an end. Now the Chechnyans are the eyes and ears of Russia inside of ISIS, which is why Russia has been so effective in Syria.
I'm still looking for the "big bad thing" that Putin did that has resulted in massive mental illness and ongoing hysteria throughout the United States.
Damn Typo's lead to the only thing one can laugh at this season
and I managed to cram two into one post.
Proofreading doesn't perform well after midnight apparently (and I am sure a couple beers didn't hurt either, lol!)
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
I posted this video on Facebook
... as a voice of reason.
Thankfully he calls it just election bullshit.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
China has long had to explain away US election attacks
...to its billion plus people – especially the aggressive US verbal attacks on China. The Chinese government tells them not to worry, that crazy lying and threatening other nations is a long and harmless tradition in the US election process. The American people expect it, but it goes away right after election day.
China doesn't want its people to panic or to form bad opinions about a nation that China considers a long term partner.
In fact he's been a model
of prudence and restraint, considering the circumstances. A lot more diplomatic than I and many others would probably be, in his position.
native
Putin is very intent on integrating Russia with Europe.
Moscow, Berlin, Paris. There's nothing at all unnatural about that. He certainly doesn't want to alienate them. He's always on the phone with them, France, Germany, They're social and there's an element of moral support there. I imagine they tell him privately to just go along for now with US demands, as they are. To play the long game. He tells them, I'm sure, he has to match their sanctions to protect his people and share the punishment.
Russia is putting a lot of money into alternate pipelines to supply Europe, particularly the Gazprom line that goes under the Caspian, across Turkey, terminating in Greece. Ukraine steals the gas and those pipelines are unreliable now. Europe is pinched because the Nazis are on the rise across Europe as a result of Neoliberal economic policies and the US-created migration out of the Middle East along with the US unleashing of terrorism. All of this is a direct result of the US/Neocon foreign policy that is desperate to prevent Europe from cooperating with Russia and Asia, which will lead to a multipolar world. The weapon they use in Europe is forced globalization through forced mass migration. Setting Europeans up to be condemn as racists if they don't accept it. The Neocon deep state will risk the entire planet to become the Empire that rules all of them. They believe the world will fold.
I think the world is waiting for the dollar to die, which could manifest at any moment. Everything is in place and the central banks are pushing for that now as they liquidate US bonds and cash. China and the Saudis have become aggressive about it. Something is going to trigger a run. The IMF is ready to step up with SDR's for trading. They encourage countries to trade in their own currencies and use dollars only for trading with the US.
That is why, I think, everyone is staying cool. It's close and it will solve many of problems globally. In the US, the deep state went rogue on the people's watch, and they allowed it. They could actually stop it with Trump — an uncooperative Outsider with no ideology; an expert in the art of the deal and how to fold a bad hand.
It remains to be seen if the American people will get lucky.
I think you are hitting the nail
squarely on the head.
native
Even the Left-Green-alternative press in Germany is pro-Hillary
to an embarrassingly uncritical extent. Nary a word said against the NATO / Saudi / neocon
warshumanitarian invasions that are the real cause of the refugee crisis.After living in Europe for decades, only in the last few months have I been forced to start regularly perusing right-wing sites such as Junge Freiheit and Compact magazine — if only to see if someone, anyone, in Germany sees through the ruse and is willing to confront head-on the neocon-neoliberal warmongering Washington consensus.
What you say here is exactly right, in my opinion:
Those evil Russkies
trying to influence our elections by telling us the truth! Don't they realize how much it costs to mount a nationwide, multi-year propaganda campaign? That's money that could have gone right into the Clintons' pockets! It's theft! Theft of lies! Very, very expensive lies crafted by very important people.
"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone
Exactly my reaction
when I watched this video in another essay/comment posted by Pluto's Republic.
No hedging, no parsing, no "as it stands now" - direct response to a question. Thoughtful, no fear mongering.
I watch RT, Zero Hedge, and pray for Redacted Tonight so I can laugh with Lee Camp.
One of the Wikileaks from Podesta & Co listing all the journalists they were inviting to a dinner, pre campaign, to "brief" them - made me feel sick! Also, now, how they're using their fake polls to try to convince us the election is over.
Lotsa Trump signs in MA. Interesting, though, when asked, very few people I know will answer who they're voting for - response, "just don't want to discuss it." When the person asking has walked away, and I say "are you voting for Trump too?" - there is always a nod, yup. "Just don't want to have to listen to their talking about that woman!" ( and this is from a woman!!!!_
Gonna be an interesting election. Wonder if the Clintons can manipulate it the way they did the primary? And what is George Soros (Mark Malloch-Brown) up to with owning voting machines???
I haven't heard it mentioned in this context,
but it appears there was some hacking during the primary. The suspect in those cases is the Hillary campaign. Obviously, because only the Clinton campaign benefited from those early hacks.
Now there is mention of electronic tampering with voter rolls in a number of states - this sounds much like some of the primary hacking.
So who is the likely suspect for the hacking just prior to the GE?
A co-worker is in Little Rock
and I asked her if she'd seen a lot of Shillary signs - nope. Not many Trump either though. And her impression is that a lot of people are not comfortable this cycle putting ANY POTUS signs up. I know I read that somewhere too, and can't help but feel sort of the same way. Have to admit though, I figured if anywhere had lots of Shillary signs it would be Little Rock.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
It would be nice to see this in
every newspaper across the nation.
#Jillneverhill
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
Influencing elections.
I'm grateful for the wikileaks data because more information will result in better decision-making, IMHO. I realize that's what they fear, so they are trying to put false fear into the hearts and minds of the sheeple. It will work for some. This is why this election is going to be so very interesting to watch unfold from 11/8 forward.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
Hi Ann!
From 11/8 forward? What are you expecting to see, Ann?
Mass disillusionment among all of Bernie's supporters who ended up 'with Her' once she feels free to reveal her true self?
(head shaking)
James Kroeger
After 11/8
If, and I still think it's an if, Her Heinous "wins" - I expect the reaction to be much, much worse than Brexit.
Much worse.
Maybe some of the Bernie Sanders supporters were conned, but damn sure the rest of the voters for Jill, Gary, Donald won't be fooled.
BTW, James, forgot to thank you for this excellent essay.
Also, those who appreciated the Putin video, please remember it was Pluto's Republic who first posted it here on C99%. Thanks.
Caerus, I think the American people are going to react badly
...no matter which despised and laid-bare candidate wins the election.
It will be bad right up until the inauguration. I pity the winner because the smears and dirt digging will be even louder and more outrageous. Because Hillary is so politically dirty, and there is so much evidence, there will be half a dozen impeachment briefs awaiting her arrival. She wiggled out of any criminal charges, but the road to impeachment is more like a civil suit with endless discovery and surprise witnesses.
The world will see her as tainted and damaged and rejected. Ugh. Other leaders won't want to get too close or invite her to dinner. They'll be much more comfortable dealing with John Bolton or whatever Neocon she appoints as Secretary of State. Wait. For sure she'll appoint one of her demented sisters, probably uber-Neocon Samantha Powers. It will be a happy day at the UN when that mean piece of bad news leaves.
Trump doesn't have any political dirt to dig up, so if he wins it's a different story. The character assassination is pretty played out, and no one to pay for it after the Democratic Party crumbles and the Party Tools slink off into the night to work on their books. But even in victory, Trump would do something before the inauguration to make people crazy. I bet he tries to fire Pence and hire Kaine. Or Boehner.
Yr friend,
Pluto
I have no expectations
because they never pan out. I'm just interested to see how America will change, for change it will no matter who is elected. What will that change be?
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
The U.S. does a helluva lot more than hacking to influence
elections in other countries. They fund opposition groups, instigate proxy wars, foment violence, hurt economies, etc., anything to try to rid countries of governments the U.S. government doesn't like or want.
Look what the U.S. is doing in Venezuela. Look what it did in Ecuador, in Brazil, in Ukraine, not to mention Libya, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, etc.. The list is long.
This is all setup for what Clinton wants to do when she becomes president, enact regime change on Russia.
A rational mind...
...aware of all the pertinent facts...cannot help but arrive at the same conclusion:
James Kroeger
If she tries to change the 'regime' in Russia, she's going to
be in for a real nasty shock. She's used to killing third world women, old people, children, trapped people with no where to run.
Putin and the Russian people are a whole new ball game.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Ya and they're ready too.
They know what's going on. But Clinton and the neocons believe they can do it, they did it before in their minds with the Soviet Union. It's happening now actually, the process started in earnest before the last winter Olympics when the demonization of Russia and Putin increased. The war in Syria is part of it, the U.S. is going to send it's ISIS proxies into the "Stans" and Russia, the sanctions, etc. It's a war happening before our eyes.
The more I think of Clinton as President the more dangerous she gets.
Same here. She's surrounded by neocons like Kagan and
Nuland, she thinks she's got to out-kill the male presidents in our past in order to prove she's one of the 'guys', and worst of all is her track record of incompetence and ignorance. She's a freaking Clinton for goodness sake. She's going to screw the country over while padding her own nest like her hubby and Obama did. Thing is, if she messes with Russia, all the nest padding in the world might be pointless. There might not be a nest (or a country to go with it) to pad when she's done.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
where did we generate all these Neocon women????
Climbers on the Hillary ladder? I am confused. Did they each not produce offspring?
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
They're smug enough in their power
that they feel their own offspring will be immune from the negative consequences of their bad decisions. As many have said before out here, they have NO clue how the real world lives anymore, no clue of what daily life is like, no clue that many of us CANNOT escape the negative consequences of their shitty decisions and for those they know can't escape, too damned bad. It is OUR fault we are not one of them, after all, so it's easy for them to discount real people.
And many of their offspring will survive, quite nicely too, but not all of them will either. These idiots are too smug and dumb, secure in their own "exceptionalism" to think they're exempt. They are as blind as the Tea Bags who vote away government help when they themselves will need it to live, they're simply blind to reality, willfully so. I used to think they were just stupid, but no one can really be that damned dumb in their positions. It isn't stupidity but blind ignorance along with massive arrogance. And as we all can see, women are not in any way immune from ignorance or arrogance, we have a prime example of that right in front of us, running for POTUS.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
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