The election has served its purpose and the damage is already done.

The role of elections in the system we live in is to distract people from the hard job of surviving the crushing imperialistic oligarchy that dominates everything. It is working very well one more time.

Let us start by recognizing that fascism and imperialism are the epitome of the reductionist philosophy. Break a complex whole into parts and lose the reality of the whole while being fascinated by the parts. Elections are but a part of this scheme, but a central part.

The particular fragment of the whole represented by those who support Trump are not a new addition to the system. They are instead a core part of it and have evolved to where they are as part the whole system. We saw them during the period of overt segregation and we saw them behind Joe McCarthy and we see them now in this manifestation. Treating them as a faction or fragment is a typical reductionist error. They do nothing more than reflect the ideology that drove those who colonized this continent, took it using genocide, and used slaves to build it. We now find it convenient to sever that connection and see them as some sort of isolated phenomenon.

What is even more dangerous is to allow that ploy to distract attention from HRC and her imperialistic mindset. It is no less consistent with the aforementioned ideology, but far more sophisticated and therefore far more dangerous in many ways. The election can not harm the system's progress in any way. It has no one in the oligarchy worried.

Yet all too many otherwise conscious people have been seduced by the trap. Anything you write and post that gives legitimacy to the election furthers its cause. The level of participation on facebook is an example of how totally effective this ploy is. We are all guilty of participating in our own destruction as we play this sick game.

Reductionist thought has been the core philosophy of our civilization and it leads to a very special kind ofGlobal Insanity

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have $0 put away for retirement. This study is but one of many showing the pauperization of the population and the precariousness of life in our political economy.

20% of the over 60 cohort are in the workforce - the highest since 1962.

Voting is nice as long as you realize it's just a very minor part of your civic duty.

Thanks for the diary.

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

Most people don't have ANY savings at all!
Hell, 60% are one, ONE unforeseen financial crisis away from disaster. Repeal the '06(?) bankruptcy law and go back to the old law and fully 30% of the working poor could find relief. Maybe.

peace

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Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .

If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march

Damnit Janet's picture

Nowadays a "financial crisis" can be just getting new tires for your car so you can commute to work. So many are driving on baldies.

I remember when my parent's divorced. My mom was a school bus driver briefly. We had a water heater tank break and we had to buy a new one. I remember my Mom was freaked about money because we were POOR because my dad NEVER paid a fucking dime of child support even though he was in the Navy and coulda/shoulda paid... but anyways...

We were able to get a water heater and keep food on the table on her small income.

But I think if that happened today: We'd be shit out of luck.

and to think... I had a hot meal every day AT SCHOOL. Most kids don't get that now due to shiity policies.

We are going backwards

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"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison

shaharazade's picture

off in this latest epic storm here in the PNW. A waterfall erupted in my office/studio. It cost 700$ to get an emergency roofer to tarp it and it's still leaking as I type tonight. I need a new roof and it will cost 16.000$. Do we have this kind of money. Fuck no. We can barely limp from one financial crisis to another and we are supposedly middle class. Yeah Right. How can anyone who does not make over 100,000 + dollars a year deal with what life these days throws at you. Who has enough money to cope with any financial crisis that requires you to pony up what you don't have? All of these so called financial crises are the result of it's never enough. Losers we are called and yes losers we are in this insane version of an economy.

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Damnit Janet's picture

Yeah and today is Sunday meaning they have to spend more money for the fix ups because it's Sunday.

We have MOLD in a bathroom, coming in from the wood. That's gonna be a BIG financial deal. Ostriching it till we can try to staunch off some of it. Fix it? No way is that even in our future. *EDIT* Yes, I know mold is a baddie. We try to treat the stuff on the paint... but it's a losing battle. We need a bathroom renovation but we're just middle class, we don't do vacay's with our political oppenents.... so when it comes to mold we can just "suck it up" & "get a life" *finish edit*

The rich get richer and we keep digging our own damn ditches.

(((((Shaz))))))

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"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison

Sounds like a vent fan to the outside is in the stars for your bathroom. Most mold and mildew problems are due to inadequate ventilation. If you have one of the little 80 cfm ceiling fans, you need to replace it with at least 150 cfm unit. I know it is easy to suggest ways for others to spend their money, but a fan replacement is far cheaper than mold remediation, or repair of structural damage from rot. Good luck on that!!

I have an 18 YO son. He just bought a used car, financed it thru the local Credit Union. He has a job...typical $10 an hour thing that allows for car payments and maintenance and repair Our auto insurance for 6 months put a real hurt on my finances. Add in Homeowners, and health insurance and one need not wonder why so many are slipping back into, or deeper into poverty.

The bad part is that young people are being shamed for living at home, while local business owners complain they can't find help...for minimum wage positions

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Damnit Janet's picture

That should help things. Again thank you. VA home inspections are worthless. Waste of money. VA didn't catch a ton of things when we bought our home.

I hear ya about the shaming of our kids. How are they supposed to live when even we adults can barely squeak by.

Everyone I know, there kid is living with them because we don't want our kids to be homeless while they are maintaining 4.0 in school and working FT jobs.

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"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison

thanatokephaloides's picture

I need a new roof and it will cost 16.000$. Do we have this kind of money. Fuck no. We can barely limp from one financial crisis to another and we are supposedly middle class. Yeah Right.

The worst thing about John McCain (AAAAARRRGH - AZ) telling the press that a middle class income is anything up to $5,000,000 a year (source) is that he was telling the truth. Much under $500,000/year, and you don't have the cash to maintain a place of your own -- the essential hallmark of middle class status.

I'm facing grief from the blower motor on my dwelling's furnace. I have no assets and my only income is Social Security Disability. Trust me when I say I do understand the grief you're facing!

{{{{Shaharazade}}}}

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

SmartAleq's picture

The fix is in, the coronation is already set, I'm just doing what I can now to encourage as many people to vote third party (read: Green, because Libertarians are mostly kinda idiotic) in order to disrupt the system in one of the very few ways left to us.

What a festering pile of sewage this "election" has become. Bad

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"Nothing's wrong, son, look at the news!" -- Firesign Theater

sojourns's picture

The Libertarians are quite silly. Sorry Libertarians.

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"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

And certainly anyone in New Mexico, Wyoming, Idaho, and Alaska should. In Utah, everyone should vote McMullin or whatever his name is. Let's obstruct any clear path to 270 electoral vote.

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Just to mention, the Libertarian supports the TPP et Fast-Tracked al corporate coups.

Jill is actually the only US Presidential candidate currently running who wants to head a democracy, rather than work for a global corporate state engaging in very, very rapidly finishing off life on the planet (could be within a few decades, probably well within a decade if nukes are going to be used for the global hostile corporate takeover, as appears certain, barring a miracle save,) for the maximized self-anticipated future corporate/billionaire profits which will be otherwise supplied to each of thousands of involved corporate interests/billionaires by the public in each involved country via massive lawsuits against any domestic law protecting anyone or anything (other than Those Who Matter and their precioussssss profits,) against unlimited corporate pollution/poisoning/reckless hazards or other potentially cost-cutting/profit-reducing depredations, such claims to be determined - without recourse - by off-shored corporate 'trade courts' where the public interest - and survival - has no standing.

This is clearly the looting phase of a very final global destruction by greed-blinded, reality-denying lunatics, and voting for this is counterproductive to survival.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

vote for President in 2016. At least, it might get the Greens automatic ballot access in 2020. I don't know that I am a fan of the Greens, but I am a fan of throwing whatever we can at the duopoly/monopoly.

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ChemBob's picture

but it is also a bit nihilistic: This is how it has been, it is the same, we can't change it, it doesn't matter, trying to change it impacts nothing, Trump represents our failed policies since the beginning, Hillary too, but in a more subtle and capable manner...

Do you have any suggestions or are we all just supposed to give up and try nothing? I doubt you're older than me and I have seen progress in many areas during my lifetime. This is just a particularly bad circumstance that will require correcting, and make no mistake about it, if we don't correct it our physical world will.

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don mikulecky's picture

Do you have any suggestions

only a book full of them.......here's the crux:

The Global Economy that sustains the civilized world is destroying the biosphere. As a result, civilization, like the Titanic, is on a collision course with disaster. But changing course via the body politic appears to be well nigh impossible, given that much of the populace lives in denial. Why is that? And how did we get into such a fix? In this essay, biologists James Coffman and Donald Mikulecky argue that the reductionist model of the world developed by Western civilization misrepresents life, undermining our ability to regulate and adapt to the accelerating anthropogenic transformation of the world entrained by that very model. An alternative worldview is presented that better accounts for both the relational nature of living systems and the developmental phenomenology that constrains their evolution. Development of any complex system reinforces specific dependencies while eliminating alternatives, reducing the diversity that affords adaptive degrees of freedom: the more developed a system is, the less potential it has to change its way of being. Hence, in the evolution of life most species become extinct. This perspective reveals the limits that complexity places on knowledge and technology, bringing to light our hubristically dysfunctional relationship with the natural world and increasingly tenuous connection to reality. The inescapable conclusion is that, barring a cultural metamorphosis that breaks free of deeply entrenched mental frames that made us what we are, continued development of the Global Economy will lead inexorably to the collapse of civilization.

is it nihilistic to warn that the oncoming train will kill you if you don't get off the tracks?

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An idea is not responsible for who happens to be carrying it at the time. It stands or it falls on its own merits.

ChemBob's picture

passed over it as a hashtag.

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don mikulecky's picture

I doubt you're older than me

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An idea is not responsible for who happens to be carrying it at the time. It stands or it falls on its own merits.

ChemBob's picture

I hope you retain your health for a long time.

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Deja's picture

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edg's picture

The link doesn't have a space between it and the preceding word, so it's hard to detect. There's also no explanation of what it is, so it makes one leery of clicking on it.

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Lookout's picture

Our species has existed about 1% of the time dinosaurs dominated the planet. Will we make 2%? Doesn't seem likely.

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

ChemBob's picture

for our AI to mature and become self-sustaining. They are bound to be better at this than a bunch of damned, greedy, hairless apes with big brains but no common sense.

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don mikulecky's picture

That's rather humorous if I dare say.

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An idea is not responsible for who happens to be carrying it at the time. It stands or it falls on its own merits.

advocating a technological "fix" for our dire situation. Unfortunately, the fix(es) won't work, or won't work in time, and it leaves those now in control of the global political economy still in control.

The world needs to focus on sustainability with regards to agriculture - No industrial agriculture; no plantation type monocultures growing for-export food; no industrial growing of beef, swine and poultry because of the levels of pollution and loss of antibacterial agents. Local growers and local markets are still the rule in many areas of the world and that's the model that needs to go worldwide.

The global military needs to be demobilized to border defense only and intelligence agencies need to be eliminated, especially their capacity to ruin the political infrastructures of other nations.

Global capitalism is the problem, in my opinion, and its replacement, though daunting, is the only way to ensure a viable biosphere.

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

Easier said than done.

I have to quibble on one small point: while capitalism is a big problem (and a system in its death throes imo), the problem is and always has been sociopaths. They are rewarded with success no matter the system in which they reside. They don't care who they step on or over, nary a worry about the consequences of their narcissistic behavior.

If it's genetic, maybe we can figure out how to screen it out. If it's more nurture than nature, we are pretty much doomed because changing behavior learned in families takes generations to correct, if it can be corrected at all.

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is powerful enough to force governments to do its bidding through the projection of military and diplomatic power.

Capitalists on Main St producing storm doors and camper covers are not in the system. Think Monsanto; megabanks; Big Oil. They are large enough to administer prices rather than have prices set through competition and influential enough to have taxpayer funded military forces insure both their acquisition of raw material and cheap labor and to even ensure profits. Most enterprises do not fall into this catagory.

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

ChemBob's picture

dependent on our technology, including you. Most of us wouldn't be alive without it. It was during the industrial revolution that the population began to assume the exponential curve shape and is only recently becoming logistic as we have exceeded the carrying capacity of our planet. Not that the industrial revolution was necessarily a good thing, but its occurrence isn't surprising in the least and it did extend us far beyond the predictions of Malthus; again, not necessarily a good thing in some contexts.

What do you suggest at your age, horses, buggies? Do we go back further; giving up the wheel, possibly fire? If we can't harness tech to save us we are beyond redemption other than a return to primitive conditions from which we will never again have an iron age, or bronze age, etc.

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Bisbonian's picture

depend on finite resources to sustain themselves. So I don't think they will. If some humans survive (and I suspect some will), it will be stone age again...as were the majority of Native Americans when we all got here. Not so long ago.

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

legal individual ownership of property before the Euros established themselves in the new world. Private ownership of property became ingrained here in a couple of generations. Private ownership of property started not too many centuries before in Europe and after a short while, it seemed natural. Permanent settlements built around farm land was an artifact of environmental pressure. People in both the old world and the new world practiced selective breeding of crops long before they had to settle in permanent villages to protect their food sources. The crop in the Levant and Fertile Crescent were proto-wheat and rye and it was teosinte(sp?) which was selectively bred into maize in the new world in Meso-America.

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

Bisbonian's picture

You fleshed it out quite a bit better than I can right now.

My grandmother came from a tribe that lived mostly on acorns, gathered in season, and stone ground. ('wa-wish', sometimes spelled 'guavish'). Supplemented with small game...rabbits, quail. They lived around a hotspring which was useful for all sorts of things, and a small creek of fresh water. They got along reasonably well with their neighbors, and lived life in peace. I sure wouldn't give that up for AI.

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

proper name) at one time had the highest rate of diabetes in the world in a discrete group. The reason was they adopted the prevailing dietary patterns of the USA and their systems could not handle it. The Papagos(I'll have to keep using this misnomer) had over the generations adapted to seasonal plenty with periods of near famine. The reason diabetes has not died out in human populations is because the genes that have a pathway to the disease confer the ability to more readily store fat than those people(the vast majority) who do not. It helped them survive in their environment over the centuries. The people were eating a high fat diet, for which their genetic heritage had not prepared them, and it led to diabetes. People in the Papago nation started a movement to go back to eating, as far as possible, the traditional diet and diabetes has become uncommon. (I've been led to believe this through readings in the cultural materialist school of Anthropology.)

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

Bisbonian's picture

Meant as a derogatory term, but they did cultivate and eat a local native bean, the Tepary Bean. We grow them, here in Bisbee (and I find them in the local hills) and we love them. High in protein, low in fat, but more importantly, low in sugar. I think research is finally coming around to the fact that sugar, not fat, is the big driver in obesity and the resultant diabetes. And cheap food always has lots of sugar. And cheap food is what Indians on reservations can afford.

Up near Phoenix, they are called "Hohokam" (or the phonetically similar "Huhugam"). Near Tucscon, it is O'Odham, and the local subgroup there are the Tohono O'Odham.

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

Cachola's picture

Although of the Puerto Rican variety, not Native American, I am always looking for new kinds of beans and it just so gappens that I just bought a bag each of white and yellow Trpary beans. Haven't tried them yet but I will this week.

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Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.

Bisbonian's picture

A little better flavor, and easier to shuck. The white ones dry softer, and they tend to stick to the hulls.

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

that most of the studies that pointed the finger at fat and cholesterol for heart disease were Paid For by Big Sugar. That's right folks, another big ag swindle uncovered and nary a ripple in the LSM.

peace

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Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .

If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march

k9disc's picture

We should come up with a list of the dangerous and cancerous shit that the FDA has fed the public to pad corporate profits. I've got a few clanking around up in my brain, enough to make it clear to me that it is not a trustworthy institution.

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

the American Indians I could not spell.
And thanks for reminding me that sugar is the culprit, along with fat. The very cheaply produced sweeteners from industrialized corn seems to be everywhere in processed food these days. Eat more than your body can use and your body will store it as fat.

Throughout human existence, until the last 10,000 years or so, fat in the diet was hard to come by. Most wild game is very low in fat and only some fruits in autumn produce much fat. It is postulated that most humans have a built-in craving for fat and sweet and fast food producers and processed food producers have hit on the formula for steady sales.

Once again, I appreciate your taking the time to give me the proper names and to remind me that a diet high in sugar is very unhealthy for most people.

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

Creosote.'s picture

But fat in the diet is not the central problem; carbohydrates, which convert far more quickly to glucose, are. For anyone here who'd like to read an informed approach for diabetes, see Ruhl's Blood Sugar 101, the 2016 edition.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

If some humans survive (and I suspect some will), it will be stone age again...as were the majority of Native Americans when we all got here.

I would hope the Native Americans deport all the illegal aliens and their anchor babies back to Europe, this time around.

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of my labor, and that of other wage earners, for their selfish ends and extreme amount of waste the system produces.

Waste such as excessive compensation and advertising and using the earth as a free dump should not be too hard to live without. It should be easy to live without the USA having military bases in 150 countries and Obama's proposed $1 Trillion upgrade to the nation's nuclear war making capacity

As to your horse and buggy reference, I am hoping you are kidding because,if not, it's silly.

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

TheOtherMaven's picture

and they're going away at exponential rates. We have squandered our patrimony and are fighting each other for the scraps. This road has only two ends, bad and worse.

The bad scenario is the enforced return of a surviving handful to a subsistence, pre-industrial existence "from which we will never again have an iron age, or bronze age, etc." - there will be nothing left to pull us out of the New Neolithic.

The worse scenario is complete extinction.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

don mikulecky's picture

destructive when it becomes the controller rather than us and then only if we have the values that keep it from becoming destructive

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An idea is not responsible for who happens to be carrying it at the time. It stands or it falls on its own merits.

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

Centaurea's picture

I interpreted Chembob's comment as saying AI would outlive us, become the new primary species inhabiting the planet, and do better at being denizens of a sustainable Earth a lot better than homo sapiens, who fouled our nest and rendered ourselves extinct.

In that scenario, it would be AI depending on us to hold things together long enough for them to take over. We 're not depending on technology to create that future, because in that scenario, we humans won't be here. Not even those .01 corporatist elites who apparently believe they are omnipotent and will live forever.

Which gives me this horrific dystopian thought: the corporatist oligarchy is one big heartless, soul-less machine, running the world and perpetuating itself. The specific people it uses are irrelevant and replaceable. Even the CEOs are ultimately cogs in the machine, to be used and replaced by the machine.

So if AI running things sounds like a dystopian nightmare ... would that be any worse than what we've got now? Interesting question to ponder: would AI species create its own version of a corporatist oligarchy machine?

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"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi

"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone

Lily O Lady's picture

It's like the fascination with colonizing Mars. While we make this planet more and more uninhabitable, we imagine that we can make Mars more inhabitable. If we don't have the ability to maintain Earth's biosphere, how do we think we can create one on Mars? Arrogance + stupidity.

In the late 60s to early 70s there was a Zero Population Growth movement, but their voices were drowned out, no doubt by capitalists who are addicted to growth. Had the movement had success, things would probably be better now.

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

Centaurea's picture

I remember the Zero Population Growth movement. It was around the time of the first Earth Day, and Woodstock had just happened. I still had the belief that my generation, the Boomers, were awakening and would take action to further the things they said they believed in. Saving the environment, no wars, "people power", that sort of thing.

Then, during my 20s and 30s I watched as, one after another, so many of my friends produced 3 children. It got to be a pattern. I kept thinking, what happened?

(For those not familiar with ZPG, the concept was "a maximum of 1 child born per parent". So a couple (2 people) would have no more than 2 kids. That would maintain the then-current population size, or reduce it.)

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"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi

"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone

riverlover's picture

There are the multiples, still, from botched in vitro stuff, but most of the American others seem to have a different religion.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

SmartAleq's picture

By the age of eighteen, a girl and a boy, then got my tubes tied. So far, my kids have had one child each (and one stepchild) which looks to be all they're planning on producing. As much as I love my grands and would welcome a house full, I applaud them for knowing their limits and for choosing to reserve their resources to benefit the number of kids they feel they can raise properly. I wish more people would do the same.

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"Nothing's wrong, son, look at the news!" -- Firesign Theater

Lily O Lady's picture

yet reproduced, and at least one may never have kids.

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

My parents had 4 kids, resulting in one grandchild who has now had one child. In later life, my mother went from agitating for more grandchildren to being very glad that she only had one to worry about...

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

lotlizard's picture

Outside of China, the notion that a government would be pro-active about ZPG set off all kinds of alarm bells.

If at all, ZPG was supposed to happen “naturally” in societies as education and standards of living rose.

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Lily O Lady's picture

others who vilified Planning Parenthood.

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

Pluto's Republic's picture

…and Voluntary Surgical Contraception until I figured out this species were primarily mammals who could stop breeding until they actually drowned in their own waste.

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They saw the writing on the wall. With runaway population growth they implemented some serious measures... female children became expendable, undesirable, as society valued the male child over the "weaker" female. Bad things have come from negative population growth throughout Europe and Russia. Now some countries are paying women to bear children as they need workers to produce goods, provide services, maintain a civilization. What is sad is that many of the countries where populations are growing rapidly have few resources, lack food and water, and have been wracked by war from corruption within, and have been subjugated and natural resources pilfered by colonial imperialism. The continent of Africa is a prime example, as is SE Asia, India, etc.. Britain, France, Portugal, Spain, Germany, The Netherlands, Belgium...all raped and pillaged resource rich, under developed nations, treated the indigenous peoples as sub human...sound familiar?? Ask the ghosts of Native Americans, and Africans sold a slaves right here at home. Nowadays ask Haitians, and Central Americans from countries that our government has robbed, and disrupted their societies in the name of greater wealth and power for our oligarchy. Our modern Nero is fiddling so furiously that the bow is bursting into flames.

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Bisbonian's picture

how do we think we can create one on Mars?

So obvious, and yes, I want to scream it every time I hear about colonizing Mars. Or drive past "Biosphere 2"

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

Lily O Lady's picture

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

Sun, 10/16/2016 - 8:16pm — Bisbonian

If we don't have the ability to maintain Earth's biosphere

how do we think we can create one on Mars?

So obvious, and yes, I want to scream it every time I hear about colonizing Mars. Or drive past "Biosphere 2"

Lol, yup, destroy the naturally self-sustaining one here to make enough profit to try to bring a very small and limited portion of it elsewhere for a few of the richest to try to survive there.

You're dealing with people who are not linked with reality and believe that they can create their own and somehow make that one be the real one. They need mental help, not control over us and our public policies, or anything else, for that matter.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

shaharazade's picture

globally whatever sect or variety they are, was a reactionary counter to zero population growth. The disaster capitalist's and nationalist, fascist, reductionist, or whatever terminology you use to describe these fuckers, used this religious backlash to population growth advocates. I remember sometime in the 70-90's hearing from the RW propagandist's that white people were lagging behind in producing more white people. so get out there and do your duty to god and country and reproduce en mass. Can't have a mine mine shaft gap.

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Lily O Lady's picture

a feature of the OMG-not-enough-white-people-hysteria. That and the fight against birth control in 3rd world countries killed the ZPG movement, sad to say.

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

There was an old and very appropriate saying regarding computers which seems to have been forgotten by many actually working with computers - GIGO. Garbage in, garbage out.

We need to start using our own intelligence rather than counting on coming up with a replacement intelligence supposedly better than we are. And that starts with democratic socialism in a responsible society which takes care of its own, with the junking of the greed-blinded oligarchs controlling/purchasing public policy and officials/parties within democratic government existing and funded by the people to serve the public interest and to form the united power of the people against those who would predate upon them.

We can live much better without corporations exerting power over us and can manage just fine without them, as we have through most of our history.

Corporate interests evidently feel that their corporations can manage without us expendables and life on the planet - but of course, corporations aren't people, let alone 'exceptional people with rights over real ones' and only the utterly insane would make any such claim. Corporations are currently permitted to be nothing more than an escape from responsibility for criminals and their predation on us all.

If the lunatics weren't running things, this world could be an asylum in the sense of a refuge, rather than in its current disastrous state.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

QMS's picture

being a sci-fi buff, I've seen the future, and it is not us. The machine is unforgiving for human needs. Maybe we can come up with a new chapter in evolution. Much to agree with Don. In our hands is the pause that refreshes.

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Why on Earth would anyone want machines to 'take over'? The disdain for nature/evolution/life and for the worth of human life and individuality in this attitude is revealing of more than a disconnect from reality but also of an even more profound mental disorder.

Machines, like corporations, are not people and are incapable of empathy, although they can fake it when programmed/required by strict oversight and properly applied law.

Machines also glitch.

Life should not be made subject to/replaced by either - and what purpose would their creation serve in the 'take-over' category? Making data-dot 'money' from each other?

Too many disconnected people confuse appearances with reality and a programmed computer 'personality' can be no more than an appearance - they lack the biological systems to feel real emotion and trying to program such into them is yet another experiment with disaster.

We already have been hazarded by and are facing more than enough disasters from these types to wipe us all out, together with the rest of remaining life on the planet, and need no more.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Centaurea's picture

I don't know anyone who wants machines to take over, although undoubtedly there are some.

What I see mostly is good old human hubris; the arrogant and mistaken belief that we are in control of everything, by "divine" right: our technology, the natural world, you name it.

And then there's ignorance. Humans have an incredible ability to pretend there are no consequences to their actions. There's been such short-sightedness in how we've developed technologies of various types and exploited natural resources.

We have developed this technology, especially of the digital kind, and we fail to see how much it already impacts (dare I say "controls"?) how we think, perceive, and structure our world. Marshall McLuhan was on to something, with his theories about the interaction between society and technology.

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"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi

"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone

Greyhound's picture

There are a range of causes, but they all come back to people making bad decisions based in ignorance, and frequently, with bad intentions.

We have conquered scarcity with technology. Should we survive the next few centuries, we'll escape the cradle.

AI might be an avenue to developing rational production and distribution systems to replace the medieval cock-ups that we have used to this point.

In the end, it's us. We have the capacity to live, but so far, lack the understanding and/or the will, on a sufficient scale to make the difference. We've broken the world, but not so badly that there is no chance for us, yet.

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don mikulecky's picture

my comments on technology are in a broader context.....reductionism is wonderful isn't it...it lets you make arguments about pieces of what someone says that have no validity

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An idea is not responsible for who happens to be carrying it at the time. It stands or it falls on its own merits.

Too bad that those domesticated apes couldn't rise to the task of programming it. LOL.

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shaharazade's picture

as are all binary systems that bill themselves as 'automated intelligence'.

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lotlizard's picture

for our AI to mature and become self-sustaining

Technological singularity

The Singularity Is Near, a book by Ray Kurzweil

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sojourns's picture

I used to think that mother earth would just rid herself of us, but I see now that we are too eager to help.

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"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

Pluto's Republic's picture

Protecting the earth is our most embedded priority. Self-preservation comes second.

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riverlover's picture

should we disappear.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

sojourns's picture

as an instinctive reflex? Philosophically, that may be true but whatever instincts we may have had to preserve the planet are awash in the ever increasing consumer economic models spawned by Western civilization. I am of the opinion that there is no stronger instinct than that of self-preservation. Seven plus billion people on the planet all saying "me, me, me".

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"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

riverlover's picture

Me, I dig holes and soon will move leaves. My work.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

sojourns's picture

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"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

Pluto's Republic's picture

…by the human species as a whole. They are systematically creating the mechanism for the rapid annihilation of themselves from the planet. Moreover, humans are consciously aware of the doomsday situation they are building for themselves as a sacrifice for the survival of the planet. The planet, itself, will heal, regain diversity, and flourish without humans. Eventually another sentient species will emerge.

If one were to see the algebraic population growth of humans plotted on a chart — from the time humans walked out of the Congo about 100,000 years ago to the present — one would see a very tall, upright "hockey-stick" formation, with the present moment at the top of the handle. In this universe, all hockey stick growth patterns result in colony collapse. Even if food and resource discovery grew at algebraic rates (which they most definitely do not), colony collapse would still occur. The tall stick shot to the top of the chart only 100 years ago, which represents a truly staggering imbalance in any ecosystem. The sharp turn happened suddenly during a 10 year period in the early 1900s when the entire world heard about germs and began washing their hands. In that same moment, the human lifespan nearly doubled.

Humans were fully aware of what had just happened. They had known for more than a century it would happen and they knew what it meant, but they refused to adjust or check themselves.

In the US in the year 1900, the average human lifespan was 47 years. It was also the average lifespan of the men who drafted the US Constitution 113 years earlier. At the time they were signing it, a young political economist named Thomas Robert Malthus was beginning a study that would result in a book that would leave an indelible mark upon the world. His book was titled An Essay on the Principle of Population, and it described how unchecked population growth occurs at an exponential rate, while the food supply could only be expected to grow at an arithmetical rate. The Founders were widely-read and undoubtedly aware of this prominent seminal work of the time. The mathematical inevitability of catastrophic overpopulation was a stark threat for the future, but they trusted that Americans would adjust and revise the Constitution so it would remain relevant to sweeping demographic transformations. This never happened, even after the industrial revolution Changed Everything.

Dr. Malthus told his readers an inconvenient truth that has been debated by world leaders ever since:

Across recorded human history, income was largely stagnant because technological advances and discoveries only resulted in more people, rather than improvements in the standard of living.

The people maintained a strict denial for any need of population control until well past the tipping point. The idea of sustainable living has caught on only recently.

Today, 230 years later, Dr. Malthus' book is still widely read, but the root cause of all environmental degradation — the massive overpopulation of humans on the planet — is still pointedly ignored and allowed to work its miserable end upon the species.

Thus, the only logical conclusion is that the species has collectively decided to eradicate itself for the sake of the planet. That's why I call it the "First Priority." It's the nature of the species.

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Creosote.'s picture

include the Industrial Revolution and massive use of coal, as with steam locomotives, vast factories; and in the US especially, the very fast introduction of the gasoline-powered car right around 1905, paired with the end of the presence of care for animals and crops with their real climate and diurnal limits in most people's lives. We live on stilts a hundred feet above the ground.

Thank you for this post, DM.

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shaharazade's picture

but we seem to be in some kind of denial regarding 'we are a part of nature'. Manifest destiny wherein we conquer and defeat nature because we humans are somehow superior to the beasties and mother nature seems to run though every thread of human history. What hubris to think humankind is somehow an evolutionary leap that is progress. From religion to science humans preach the gospel that who better then us to play god then us. This weird thread is not restricted to religion, 'scienceman' has adopted it also. If protecting the earth we must all live on is our most embedded priority why in the fuck are we burning it up and killing everything that sustains life?

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don mikulecky's picture

as a system evolves it loses options and eventually things go extinct

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An idea is not responsible for who happens to be carrying it at the time. It stands or it falls on its own merits.

sojourns's picture

n/t

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"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

The planet can't defend itself against human actions finishing off oxygen-producing life and oxygen-dependent life while methane releases alter the atmosphere. We're not just killing ourselves off, but the results of billions of years of evolution.

At current ever-faster snowballing rates of ecological die-off and natural life support dysfunction - already having been found to be worsening much more radically than anticipated - due to current rates of industrial/military pollution/destruction, it's been estimated that within 90 years, global oxygen production will be insufficient to support life, meaning trouble far sooner.

The more the oxygen thins out and the more reduced become the natural systems remaining to help 'clean' fossil fuel/industrial pollution (by retaining the poisons themselves), the faster complete ecological collapse will occur.

Under the betrayal of the illegal, unconstitutional Trojan Horse 'trade deal' corporate coup, with unlimited industrial/military pollution/destruction, this will obviously occur far more quickly.

With nukes being hurled around at/by multiple countries, the dimming of the sun for over a decade and the increase n drought, as well as the radiation levels, will cause not only crop failure and famine in any countries not partially consisting of radioactive craters but general plant death and that of all those dependent upon crops or other animals for food.

Obviously, this will greatly increase the rate of ecological collapse and oxygen deficiency.

There goes billions of years of evolution in the very near future, either way.

This election really does matter, despite it being rigged and not a real election at all, something which can be recorded, protested and the results of which can be repudiated by the people.

There was a linked article posted in a comment here on C-9 which made a passing reference to an international mechanism by which such cheats can be not recognized by the leaders of other countries, although I'm totally not up to trying to research it myself, even if searches on 'sensitive subjects' on my computer didn't now tend to give results mostly/utterly unrelated to the search terms and generally not useful for the purpose, even on DuckDuckGo.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Creosote.'s picture

the entire history of human culture -- libraries, museums, universities, music, the ocean as a source of oxygen. And every green leaf and the bright eyes of little birds.

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Beware the bullshit factories.

snoopydawg's picture

They are paying more for their health insurance then they are for their mortgages. And some premiums are going up by 64%.
The banks won't loan you money for a house that will take more than 30% of your income, yet there is no rule for how much people's insurance costs related to their income.
And of course we were told that the ACA was a step toward single payer but I haven't heard of anyone working on making the ACA better or stopping the insurance companies raising rates.
I've read that more people are paying the penalty instead of buying junk insurance.
After people pay for their high premiums they still can't afford to see a doctor because their deductibles are so damned high.
And instead of voting for the person who wanted to work for single payer, they're voting for the person who said that universal health care will never, ever happen.
Go figure that out.

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There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?

Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.

leonamarie's picture

is that after we pay for the outrageous insurance doctors are refusing to accept it because of "discounts." It gets harder to find a pcp, now required to even access health care. The whole system is broken and all of the parts are disintegrating.

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I no longer believe in the religion of progress

Mon, 10/17/2016 - 1:38am — leonamarie

Right Snoopydog. And the other major problem
is that after we pay for the outrageous insurance doctors are refusing to accept it because of "discounts." It gets harder to find a pcp, now required to even access health care. The whole system is broken and all of the parts are disintegrating.

All this just in time for the TPP corporate coup to be passed right after the US Presidential selection... assuming the people don't thwart the electoral cheat and betrayal this time by voting non-corporate, proving it and repudiating the faked results and claimed 'legality' of a traitor's signature giving a country and people into the hands of hostile powers.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Pluto's Republic's picture

Regarding fascism (clearly one of the most popular words of the 21st century, so far):

Let us start by recognizing that fascism and imperialism are the epitome of the reductionist philosophy. Break a complex whole into parts and lose the reality of the whole while being fascinated by the parts.

Perhaps you should unpack this suitcase, Don. It's a little reductionist, in itself. I notice that because I've been trying to grapple with it, too. Here's my question:

We know that nearly every country in the world, even China, had a Fascist Party at some point in the 20th century — so which comes first, Fascism or Nazism?

We also know that Hitler was obsessed with the American peoples' successful continent-wide genocide and collected books and papers on the technical aspects of it. (In Hitler's subjective arc of time, the US genocide was very recent and contemporary.) It appears to be a core value in the US culture, if we "reduce" US global activities to what it accomplishes. So, Does Fascism become Nazism after the genocide begins?

Regarding reductionism, you say:

Fascism and imperialism are the epitome of the reductionist philosophy.

Treating [support for Trump] as a faction or fragment is a typical reductionist error.

I think you are giving reductionism a bad rap, here. It is a useful and insightful tool for pattern seekers and analysts. And philosophers, too. How about this compromise: "Never practice reductionism without a license." Because it's true that a lot of people do it wrong and abuse it.

Finally, a concern on your last point:

Yet all too many otherwise conscious people have been seduced by the trap. Anything you write and post that gives legitimacy to the election furthers its cause. The level of participation on facebook is an example of how totally effective this ploy is. We are all guilty of participating in our own destruction as we play this sick game.

I fully agree, here. As an outsider, I am eternally bemused that people actually vote in the US, knowing what they know. But I regard it as harmless ritualistic behavior, like kissing a good luck charm. It doesn't strike me as sinister, but merely as superstitious. The downside primarily affects you, not the participants, because you are forced to accept the reality that your society has not yet achieved full awareness. (Even if they didn't vote, the quaint constitution has allowed for that, and they will still get their designated president.) It's a melancholy reality, but it is "core". What can you do?

About Facebook, you may be interested to know who your global allies are. Here is a current heat map from NBC/BBC of Trump support on Facebook:

[Edit: Replace corrected chart]

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mimi's picture

I wonder how valid the map is and how it adjusts to number of people in each country who participate with facebook.
Anyhow. It's bullshit. I don't trust the map.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

It's not a scientific study. I think Germany lights up because of the rise of the right wing in Europe, where Trump's remarks on immigration probably resonate.

Most folks in Europe are probably dismayed by both candidate and the mess we've all made of the 2016 election. Most of the world is disgusted.

What I find ironic is that Russia is the only powerful nation that clearly demonstrates no motive nor desire to "fix" the US elections for a Trump win by hacking Hillary.

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don mikulecky's picture

fascism and imperialism are the epitome of the reductionist philosophy

please stop taking that out of context

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An idea is not responsible for who happens to be carrying it at the time. It stands or it falls on its own merits.

Pluto's Republic's picture

My entire comment was meant to engage and amuse you. (Within the context of its entirety.) I'm on your side.

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