Why I'm voting for the Liar and not the Liar
My son has a best friend named Stanley who's parents were born in Ecuador. One day during this election cycle, at the very impressionable age of 12, Stanley caught wind of the statements made by Trump about immigrants. Stanley's parents are both hard working people and like many immigrants do not speak English that well and Stanley translates much of the time for them.
I can only imagine how much fear consumed Stanley when he had to translate Trumps rhetoric to his parents. Usually a 12 year old can go to his parents to help alleviate fears but Stanley had to watch his parents sink into fear as he rattled off the statements about walls and deportations. Stanley's fear did not subside after he spoke to his parents and the next day at school he told my son about Trump and explained that if Trump won the Presidency he and his family would be sent to Ecuador.
That evening this conversation took place in my living room-
"Where is he!" my son screamed.
"Who?" I answered, while sitting on the couch watching politics.
"Trump!" he barked, "I want to see his face!"
"Why"? I asked completely confused as I didn't even know my son knew who Trump was.
"Because, he wants to make Stanley and his family leave and I hate him!" he replied in a raised voice.
"What, uhm well he is right there but don't worry" I said pointing at the tv.
"The one with the Orange hair?" he interrupted.
"Yes, but don't worry he is not going to be president" I staunchly declared.
"But what if he wins Dad"? he countered.
"HE WILL NOT WIN" I reiterated.
"You promise Dad?" he asked.
"Of course I promise, I will do what ever I can do to prevent that from happening" I promised.
At the time the "whatever I could do" was to be all in for Bernie and I really thought we were going to win the primary. My only saving grace is I live in New York and she is up by 20 so it really doesn't matter if I vote third party as she will easily win this state.
BUT, what if my son asks me who I voted for?
He will not understand if I tell him that I voted 3rd party. The reason he wont understand is due to his disability (which makes it difficult for him to understand nuance) and the fact he is doing a project in School on the election and the teachers are not including third party candidates because they were not invited to debate and he will not understand if I tell him something contrary to what his teacher explained, it will just confuse him.
He will believe that I went against my word if I do not vote for HilLIARy because he only knows this as a 2 person race, so I'm stuck. I'm voting against DonaLIARd by marking HilLIARy.
Now I have advocated for lying here on this site recently (only if it benefits the 99%), so it is not the fact that both candidates are liars that bothers me. It is what they lie about and the fact that I will be voting for the worse of the two lies.
Why are Hills lies worse than Trumps lies? Because Trump lies about things he really doesn't hate and Hillary lies about things she really doesn't care for.
Trump really doesn't hate immigrants, especially the ones here undocumented after all it is much cheaper to hire undocumented workers to build his towers than the alternative. So he is lying about hating something that he doesn't.
Hillary really doesn't care about immigrants, if she cared about immigrants she would not have said this about unaccompanied minors “They should be sent back as soon as it can be determined who responsible adults in their families are, because there are concerns about whether all of them should be sent back,”. So she is lying about caring for immigrants when she really doesn't.
The only pro to voting Hills is we will hit bottom faster with her at the helm. She will continue on the exact path we are on now which is a race to the bottom and that might be the only thing that wakes us up.
I want you 99ers to know that you are making this decision very difficult on me, as I believe those of you voting 3rd party or writing in Bernie are doing the correct thing with your vote and I would be right there with you if not for my son.
Those of you not voting also have valid points. The BA wing of the 99ers provide sound reasoning to start from scratch.
I did NOT write this to sway any votes, I wrote it to justify my vote to myself.
Comments
well.....this is based on unreality
he might see it as a 2 person race because that's what he's heard...but it's not true.
Would you worry that 10 years from now, when everything is even worse than today, that he might ask you "why didn't you tell me in 2016 that there were other candidates?"?
I would hate to make a choice based on somebody else's lack of information. I think you should explain about both Stein and Johnson and how elections work, how parties get on the ballot and such.
Wish I could, but he will think that I'm not
understanding him. He will say "but my project is about the election between Clinton and Trump".
He is very sensitive about being misunderstood because of his disability, which is a auditory processing disability. So "what he hears" is very difficult to ascertain at times especially with new concepts and ideas.
Please try to understand that and if you can I suspect you will believe I'm doing right by him.
Age 12, good time to learn the truth about this country
Agree with Shahryar - time for your son to learn the truth about this country.
People's History of the United States, by Howard Zinn, a good place to start. Read it together.
Long past time for your son to learn that "how a bill becomes a law" ( which most of us were taught before age 12) is not reality.
Good Luck.
who is he?
the guy that's carried out more deportations than the entire history of the united states?
(except for his presidency, amirite?
golly, trillary's scary.
GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG
There may be no bottom,
at least not one that includes life as we know it. Waiting to address climate change for a couple more election cycles is not a viable option.
Of course, this would not be something I would be comfortable trying to explain to my child. Mine are grown now, and they still don't want to know about it. Sometimes the truth is potentially more destructive than a lie.
Navigating parenting has gotten way more difficult since my children's arrival. I don't know how I would fare in your position, except to keep loving them the best you can.
“ …and when we destroy nature, we diminish our capacity to sense the divine,and understand who God is, and what our own potential is and duties are as human beings.- RFK jr. 8/26/2024
thank you for that very thoughtful response, that made me
feel better.
I have never voted for a Clinton so this is painful. And you are correct about the bottom, I'm just trying to find some positive in the outcome of this hideous vote I'm going to make.
Maybe you could explain Honduras?
and how Hillary laughs with glee over killings.
Yes, it's a two party... and none of us are invited.
good luck.
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
When HRC starts her deportations--and she will--
what will you say to your son then? As Obama's third term, she will most likely try to outdo him to prove that she can get more done than a man.
You might want to invite your son to sit with you through a Jill Stein speech or two and introduce him to a different possibility. In eight years he will be of voting age, and showing him that there are alternatives should start early.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
thanks for the advice
I'm not sure that you read the entire post?
I explained why that isn't possible.
You don't have to convince me that Hillary is full of shit.
Yes, I read the entire post.
If the teacher was telling your son something that you totally and completely disagreed with would you risk trying to assist him through his confusion or just let him be mislead so as to not confuse him?
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
When he asks just tell him
"I didn't vote for the orange anus." and leave it at that.
There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams
It is your kid and your vote.
You need to do what you believe is right. Not that I am recommending anything, but you could vote for the Pope and tell him Hillary for all he'll know. That brings this back to it is your vote and your kid. You need to do what you believe is right.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
thanks dk, if my vote was the one Stein needed for victory
I would vote Stein and lie, because it would benefit the 99 which he is one.
Maybe I get sick that day a can't get out of bed to vote.
I am sorry you're in that position.
What state are you in? How much will your vote "matter?"
Not that that's the real issue, I guess.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I thought of that, he asks very direct questions so
He would say "wait Dad so does that mean you voted for Clinton"
Keep in mind at 7 years old he was at a 2 year old level in speech because of his disability.
We work hard to make sure we don't overwhelm him. It is all about baby steps when new ideas or concepts are introduced.
OOPS that was a response to kharama.
kharma's answer is the best one
Your son does not seem to be worried about anything other than Trump. So you can reassure him that you are not or have not voted for Trump. That is his primary worry and assuring him that you are not voting for the orange man should calm his fears.
As a personal editorial point, I believe everyone's vote is his or hers and each of us has the right to make our voting decision based upon our own values. I also believe a voter should be voting FOR someone. A vote to prevent the greater evil is a vote made under blackmail. This year is the first time I have refused to allow the Democrats to blackmail me into voting for someone who does not represent my personal values. It is very liberating.
Best wishes and go with your values.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Well if he knows and comprehends
about the racist Trump and deportation why not explain to him simply that there are other candidates besides Hillary and The Hairball. You have to do what you think is right. What I can't understand why you think voting for The Mad Bomber is the right thing for you or your son. Hillary sent children fleeing from Latin American USA backed violence back to die in the hellholes they were escaping order to teach their parents a lesson.
As SoS she has created refugees fleeing from the USA's bombs and drones. I'm not so sure that your voting for Hillary is the right thing to do for anyone. Your son sounds like he has grasped and can handle the truth about Trump why is he incapable of understanding that Hillary is just as likely to deport his best friends family?
No need to shout at me I read the whole essay. I just don't agree with it. Doing what you can to prevent Trump includes voting for a 3rd party. Sometimes not giving your consent to be governed by either of the two white supremacist viscous candidates is the bast way to prevent candidates like these two evils from being the only choice we have.
Viscous, I like it.
They Do seem kinda sticky. Like, need to take a shower sticky.
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
It was a typo
I meant vicious but sometimes a typo works just as well. I once misspelled pundits and typed in pundirts which really fit. They certainly are pretty sticky, like in you need a shower afterwards, but they are also vicious psycho's to boot. Any way you describe them just the sight and sound of these two makes me sweat.
Voting Against
That pretty much sums up my whole family. We are not voting for President we are voting against Trump.
Essentially here in North Carolina we are voting to get McCrory and Burr out of office so we can be done with HB2 which is NOT supported by the people of the State and is causing much suffering. Where we are their are only the two candidates who could possibly win the electoral votes so we may as well make sure it isn't Trump.
A dreamer is one who can only find his way by moonlight, and his punishment is that he sees the dawn before the rest of the world. Oscar Wilde
I believe that Bernie did win the election
Look at how the exit polls didn't match up with the actual vote tallies. And then there's all the states where he got more votes, but Hillary won those states because of delegates or coin tosses.
Plus there are all the people who weren't able to vote because they were either kicked off the voting rolls or had their party affiliations changed.
And we learned how that could have been accomplished when there was the data breach of the DNC.
Someone wrote an essay about this yesterday or a comment. Was that the essay about the Nevada fiasco?
The powers that be did not want Bernie to win.
And for some reason Bernie has stayed silent about the election fraud.
Bill got away with interfering at 4 voting places in Michigan.
Now imagine if it was Jane that did what he did.
It looks to me that Trump is trying to throw the election because he keeps saying stupider things instead of speaking about the issues.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
October surprises are just around the corner
so naturally, Trump hasn't even begun to be outrageous....
Only you know what you will do.
Asking us is futile. You must do what your conscience dictates.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
Hey Ann :)
I didn't ask anyone, just wanted to share with the community.
Apologies.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
Good luck with that.......
But if large majorities keep voting for the duopoly, then all we'll get is more lies, crap and corruption.
'Wasting your vote' relies on the false LOTE premise. If enough people voted for who they actually wanted, a third/fourth party might actually become a second party.
Anyway, good luck. Last night's 'debate' changed nothing at Palazzo Bollox. Stein will get my inked-in oval.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
I must be missing something.
Are the friend's parents here illegally? If so, they may be deported regardless of who's president. If they're here legally, they have nothing to fear from either candidate.
Are your son's friend's parents in the US illegally?
I presume not.
So, why would you let these two boys twist in the wind like that, terrified?
And then let that boy terrify his parents in his own language?
Rather than explaining to your anguished family and friends that Trump was talking about people who were in the US illegally? That they were not the targets.
::
By the same token, Trump's stance toward the undocumented is the one thing that bothers me most. I am well aware that as president, he would have absolutely no power whatsoever to do anything at all. He will be blocked at every turn by the Republicans and any Democrats that manage to get elected after the shameful disgrace of their association with the Party of Deeper Corruption.
However, Trump can enforce laws made by congress. He could deport even more people that Obama has, although that is a damned high bar. He cannot deport tens of millions of people, however. That would cost billions of dollars he does not have and take 20 to 30 years to accomplish.
Why voting for a murderer and war criminal like Hillary, who can get a shitload of corruption through Congress, including more terrorist horrors to inflict upon the brown world, makes you feel better — I don't get that. But since Americans get screwed no matter who they elect, it hasn't ever mattered in my lifetime.
I'll grant you, though, that this election is different. It's the first time a non-establishment outsider — who scares the Neocons to death — has been a candidate in a Presidential election.
I'm not worried about sanctioned violence or round-ups
or anything like that from a Trump regime. What scares me is unofficial vigilante violence. Once the tone is set from above, that racial hatred is acceptable, spontaneous violent attacks will begin to occur. I live in a Hispanic neighborhood so what I'm being told, essentially, is "Vote for Her or your neighbor gets it." It's a form of extortion. Thanks Dems. They're saying Arizona is "in play" this year. I'm not sure I believe that, but I'll wait as long as I can before sending in my ballot. If Trump's going to win here anyway I intend to vote for Stein or leave the top line blank.
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
Indeed. And Hillary stated
Indeed. And Hillary stated that a Mayor withholding video to help cover-up police murder of People of Colour - so that it could continue - was fit to retain his office.
Evil comes from the top, and there is no sane excuse that I can think of to vote for evil and ask for Trojan-Horsed imposition on multiple countries of corporate law aimed only at the maximization of the profits involved corporations claim they'd hoped to potentially gain in the future, with unlimited industrial pollution, unsafe food, products, work-places, institutions such as banks and stock markets and a complete lack of protections against all corporate abuses of people, animals and the environment together with the use of economically captured countries resources - human and other - for the corporate military subjugation/nuclear obliteration of all countries not captured via 'trade deals', as is already in progress.
People now living cannot hope to live normal life-spans under this, (should such a life be worth living, as seems unlikely,) even without nuclear attacks being initiated by these greed-maddened psychopaths out to destroy the Earth in their taking of it, should anyone but (that Bernie miracle of which I still dream or) Jill Stein gain the Presidency.
Look up what happens in countries where there are no protections for citizens and the environment against corporate abuses - if you can still find much on the internet. Not that much gets out...
Bush initiated the TPP; Secretary of State Clinton promoted it around the world, together with fracking destroying the potable water supply, human animal and plant health and the stability of the very ground beneath our feet; Obama is trying to get the TPP passed in November (and the others in line Fast-tracked); the incoming President must repudiate this illegal, unconstitutional privately made traitor's agreement, should Obama succeed in so betraying his country and people into the hands of hostile agencies.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
So why lie to him?
Why not tell him that there are more people that can be voted for other than those two people? Why lie to him and make him think Hillary cares more about his friend than Trump does? After all, she's just as likely to deport his friend's family as Trump is. Maybe even more likely.
But more importantly: are you ready for your kid to call you a liar in the likely event that Trump wins?
The teacher
Me, I would have been in there he next morning to talk to the teacher, probably very politely. I would have explained that you are a supporter of Jill Stein (without getting political, maybe say she plays a better tennis game, LOL) and wish that she would include her in the project so your son can be included fairly.
I did talk this with teachers when Catholicism was the state religion in Bolivia and a required course of study every year. Later we helped pass a new constitution with basic fundamental rights to freedom of and from religion. They still teach classes in "Philosophy and Morals"...
From the Light House.
Sorry for you, man.
I understand. If it's any consolation her will have it rigged anyway. In her favor of course.
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
Strong Stein supporter here.
But you are in a rare situation. If you and all the other parents of children with auditory processing disabilities, of an age to care about this election without understanding it, have to vote for Hillary for the sake of your children, then it will move the needle not much at all. So if you end up feeling that you need to vote Hillary for your son's benefit, I say go for it.
That said, does the above mean he can understand the written word better than the spoken word? You do have more than a month to explain everything to him. Maybe you could do that with some written material? Charts, maps, photos, graphs?
I agree with others in the comments that if possible, it would be best to explain to him that there are (at least) four candidates in the race, and that Stein and Johnson are viable because they got on the ballot in most of the states (you could show him the map at Stein2016.com). You could show him polls showing Clinton and Trump with the huge numbers, with Stein and Johnson not cracking 10%, and explain that this is why the teacher is just covering the two main candidates. I agree that you don't want him asking you later why you didn't tell him there were other candidates or why you didn't vote for the lady who was better than Hill.
You could tackle one piece of the whole at a time, and let one thing sink in before you move on to another. After all, you have more than a month.
I do like the suggestion of talking with the teacher so you're both on the same page. Tell her she's put you in a spot where you feel like you're lying to your son and you don't like that feeling. She may have more suggestions for how to clarify. She may also give your son a break if in his eventual report, he ends up a little confused.
If in the end, though, you still feel like you really have no alternative but to vote for Hill to be able to tell him truthfully that you did so, then I would give you a pass. Do so without guilt. Your child is more important than these politicians.
Good luck!
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Well, you could always explain what good friends
HRC and her SoS mentor, HFK, have been to Latin Americans.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
The Narcissistic Liar or the Lying Narcissist.
I think I got this here, and it's a real gem.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
I respect your decision.
I won't be voting for either major party because of my own ethical dilemmas. The way I see it is that, because of the current gross levels of income inequality and the inability of the status quo to address the problems of the 99%, we are in for a surge of populism in this country. With neither major party truly fighting for the middle/working class, this is inevitable. So the only real question at this point is if we get right wing populism or left wing populism? As someone that fears the rise of right wing populism (fascism), I believe we MUST provide an alternative on the left and the time is now to start building support. I think the building of a strong left third- party will be seriously neutered by a HRC presidency. I fear the status quo will destroy my three millennial children's shot at a decent life.
It is NOT Binary.
If you vote for someone other than Hillary, that doesn't mean you vote for Drumpf -- no matter how many times people say it, it isn't true.
If it were a truth, and you vote for someone other than Drumpf, then you are clearly voting for Hillary. Regardless of who wins.
I see no problem here.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
#JillNotHill
#NeverHillary #NeverTrump
The way $hillary plays the election game, she will get plenty of votes that nobody cast for her.
Vote for whoever you want.
However we reserve the right to blame you when Clinton turns the world to shit.