Even if Trump were president....my vote goes for Jackie being much more of a 'ravishing First Lady' than Melania.
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There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams
To have been skipping school with my friends. I got caught when I got home and wanted my parents to believe the teachers had not said anything about the assassination.
There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams
American exceptionalism will arise over quaint differences like regional accents. Think of the actress jobs of Bacall and Katherine Hepburn and a few others. American accents, mostly NE, meant money, power and property, even if not so.
The other problem of Trump is a third marriage and offspring with each wife. He keeps down-trading in age, many people assume 30+ year age mismatches are power signs for one agent, accumulative signs in the other.
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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Of course you have to have a peculiar sense of humor (guilty). I knew from the get-go it was going to be a debate between a lying narcissist and a narcissistic liar. And we've all heard this crap before (even though many of us have tuned out further auditing)...Hillary won one point--no coughing. Some minor eye movement abnormalities. She parroted nice things about the economy which she shamelessly expropriated from Bernie. Nobody following this campaign can believe a single word she says. When challenged on the TPP and about Obama's championing of it, she wisely kept her mouth shut. That treaty will become law even before election day and Shillary will celebrate. I also give Medusa one more point for not collapsing. Her come-backs were inane. Her shameless plugging for her shameless book was astoundingly dumb.
Mr. Trump is no ideological role model but I don't believe he is anywhere near the war-monger she is. He didn't say anything great except when responding to Hillary's victimhood statement: "I'm sure that tonight, I'll be blamed for everything". DT then said tellingly "you should be".
By maintaining his bearing, including his courtesy in referring to the witch as Secretary Clinton, while she only called him Donald, lent him more classiness than she showed.
HRC is noted for talking over people. But Trump reined in her verbosity more than any others I have seen.
I slept for a couple of years so missed this. HRC claims that before she took a hand in the Iran sanctions that Iran had the centrifuges a-spinning already. According to her, they had everything ready to launch a nuclear attack short of a target . Is this her WMD moment or was Iran really that far advanced? And if they were that far advanced, why had nothing been said before it got to that point?
To HRC (just cuz I got so tired of that shit-eating grin on her face all night):
Lyrics:
It's just the two of us
A silver cross
And some strength that you won't believe
See I'm not your friend
And I won't pretend
That I've come here for peace
Well I'm not afraid
I'm gonna make you pay
I'm gonna wipe that smile off your face
And this is war ...
And I'm gonna wipe that smile off your face
The time has come
To drop the bomb
On all the pain you've been selling
See I don't like you
Or your attitude
Or the company that you keep
And this is war ...
And I'm gonna wipe that smile off your face
And this is war ...
And I'm gonna wipe that smile off your face
It's just the two of us
A silver cross
And some strength that you won't believe
Well I'm not afraid
I'm gonna make you pay
I'm gonna wipe that smile off your face
It's war ...
And I'm gonna wipe that smile off your face
And this is war ...
And I'm gonna wipe that smile off your face, oh ...
And wipe that smile
And wipe that smile
I'm gonna wipe that smile off your face
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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
procedure for her--taking credit for other's work (cf the children health bill that Kennedy and Hatch put together).
Regarding Iran she stated that they were on the verge (as in the next day it would have happened if not for her) of starting a nuclear war, and I was wondering how accurate this was/is? Or is this her WMD make the facts go away moment?
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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
as far as I can tell, Iran was mainly looking to go on domestic nuclear power. You know, to power their country. But I'll bow to anybody (trustworthy) with more expertise.
That's not Clinton, something her campaign refuses to face--the problem with touting her competence & experience is that those things are worth jack and shit if you consider someone completely untrustworthy.
I mean like, great, someone who's competent and experienced at FUCKING ME OVER.
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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
important. In fact, they seem intent on only Trump's misstatements with little winks at the stuff we already knew like HRC's statement about "gold standard" TPP. If I find some energy, I will see what I can find, but right now it sounds like more saber rattling from HRC.
PS. I have little faith in "fact checkers" as they tend to only supply the facts (or leave out or twist) that "prove" their pre-determined stances.
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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
proof that Iran has wanted to get that far towards developing a nuclear bomb. The Iran "deal" is a red herring in that it's based on a false premise, that Iran is a threat to develop a nuke bomb and a nuclear weapons program. It's not. Couple that with Israel's nuke weapons program which they and our own government won't admit to, the Iran deal is nothing but a geopolitical maneuver to set the stage for further action against Iran.
I got from her statement was accurate. She is setting the stage for war with Iran just as both Bushes did with Iraq. Is there anyone she is not willing to provoke a war with? From what I can see the answer is no, and she is willing to pull other countries in as "allies" which makes me also wonder if there is another motive behind the TPP besides trade.
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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
The TPP has very little to do with 'trade', as can be seen by the fact that very of little of it actually addresses anything purportedly 'trade' (divvying up the planet into markets/resources, human and otherwise) related - such as not allowing Canada to produce its own milk within 10 years, by which time nobody would be able to afford to buy it anyway, with wages competitive with Malaysian etc. slave-labour for those maximized profits - but everything to do with a mechanism used to place the domestic law of all involved people and countries under complete corporate control using an off-shored 'trade' court with corporate lawyers and judges, where the public interest has no standing and where only the anticipated maximized profits of involved corporations and billionaires are considered.
In any country illegally and unconstitutionally betrayed by traitorous public servants in such privately made agreements to dispose of what and who they do not own and are sworn to protect, any attempt to protect the public or environmental health or rights against any corporate abuses will result in any/all of thousands of involved corporations/billionaires suing that public for hundreds of millions or hundreds of billions of dollars (depending upon what they claim they had hoped to get in the future from freely polluting, producing unsafe products in unsafe workplaces, or whatever,) until the various publics have been bankrupted and are hopelessly in debt to international banksters, as with Greece.
It seems evident that any country not suckered into accepting such illegal and unconstitutional financial capture is to be either militarily conquered or, if large enough/capable of defending itself, such as Russia and China in the first instance and in the second, Iran, via conventional defence systems, even if (last I heard) aged/outdated, and possible others, such as Pakistan, nuked, using the resources of such 'trade deal'-entrapped countries, the US having the world's largest military and to be blowing (I believe?) over a billion of taxpayer money (withdrawn from the public good it's paid in for) on new nukes, it would seem in the interest of doing this.
The prospect of creating nuclear winter and of the retaliatory nuclear obliteration of much of North America doesn't appear to bother any of the conspirators, any more than does the prospect of otherwise polishing off life on the planet along with oxygen production within decades through even non-nuclear military and unlimited industrial pollution and destruction to be mandatory under corporate profiteering law throughout the globe.
Psychopaths are not great at understanding that even super-special, most clever they, may be subject to certain of the consequences of their own actions, rather than merely affecting the lesser beings they may find to be so entirely disposable. Even just regarding the abandonment of all safety regulation regarding everything they themselves use and consume. Or the crashing of financial markets which the public has no capacity to regulate or, any longer, bail out.
Anyone even potentially running now except for Bernie or Jill would go for this fatal disaster for short-term personal gain, including that TPP-supporting Libertarian, and I wish people understood what they are voting for with either of the evils, and how important it is to not repeatedly let the results of electoral cheating stand 'as a done deal'...
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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
From the clips, she seemed to be trying her best to sound like Sanders, especially in her opening statement, a relatively obvious attempt by her to woo Sanders voters. (What did Powell say about her? "Unbridled ambition.")
No surprise. She has a lot of experience at leading from behind, of finding a parade and getting in front of it--after pushing the real leader out of her way. However, almost everyone believed that Sanders actually meant what he said. Almost all Americans see through her insincere pandering for votes, whether they admit it or not.
A lot of pundits remarked that Trump had lowered expectations and I found myself at the end applying this theory. He articulated conservative policies without sounding absolutely crazy. Some of the stuff actually sounded good. Hillary also got off good wonky statements. But Trump was better able to articulate the problems with America, and it seems that someone who can identify the problem is better suited to fixing it.
They both got off some good barbs. When Trump said the nation is broke, and she said that's because people like you pay no taxes, that was a home run. And she nailed him to the wall on his tax returns, landing a haymaker with the line "I don't think he'll ever release them." And WTF was up with his refusing to answer the question about what made him change his mind about Obama's birth certificate? 3 times asked, 3 times avoided, and opened the door for her to answer for him, a believable answer at that.
She was also able to push his buttons. It's so easy to do. He is so shallow, and that came across too. His constant repetitious interruptions were boorish and childish, but I don't think it affected his people at all.
Trump also got in a great barb, which caused the first audience reaction. It was understandable, because I believe it was slightly funny. But that just opened the door for her supporters in the audience to go tit-for-tat, so of course they had to have an equal number of cheer and applause interruptions. Typical Clintonian thinking - any excuse to abandon the rules.
In the end, the only people who this debate mattered for are the undecideds, and Trump may have been the more convincing. He was thin-skinned and petulant, but that's not a revelation. What is a revelation was that he's able to outline a general political philosophy. He didn't drown.
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“He may not have gotten the words out but the thoughts were great.”
I thought Trump came out strong but struggled when it came to foreign policy. He seemed to lose a lot of his energy toward the end. He articulated some things that I agree with, but his presentation was sloppy, rambling, and sometimes incoherent. However, he didn't come off as a lunatic fascist that wants to destroy the world, so I'd say it's a win for him. I was fairly certain that we'd see a repeat of the Carter-Reagan debates, where the Carter campaign spent so much time demonizing the challenger that by the time the debates happened and Americans saw that Reagan wasn't completely insane, he won by default. I think a more measured version of that happened last night.
Hillary, on the other hand, exuded inauthenticity and platitudes. Her multiple attempts to turn attacks on Trump into memes fell completely flat. I audibly groaned when she said "Trumped up trickle down." Are we back in high school now? I expect that childish nonsense from conservatives, but aren't "liberals" supposed to be better than that? Personally, I think that she did come off as more capable to be president, but she also showed that she's completely detached from the concerns of the average American and that she cares more about retaining power than actually fixing the country. At least Trump addressed the fact that the American working and middle class is rapidly declining--although his blame is completely misplaced--while Hillary didn't seem to give a shit and pretended like everything is great.
I watched the debate live with a group of friends last night. All of us are in our late 20s-early 30s, come from the working and middle classes, and span a range of racial/gender backgrounds and sexual orientations. Their reactions included phrases like, "This is the worst debate ever," "She's a f***ing liar," "If this is the choice, I'd rather not vote," "Pass me another beer," and "I'd rather have Harambe as president than these two clowns." Most of them used to be staunch Democrats. They're now independents. Most of them supported Bernie and would still vote for him today. Now, they're either not voting, going for Trump out of spite, or voting for Gary Johnson. Only a couple of us are voting for Jill Stein. None of us are voting for Hillary.
The 1980 Carter-Reagan debate was the first major warning that the Powell Blueprint was being followed by corporate RWNJs. They were seeing great success w/it. This joke called a "debate" is simply the result of 36 years of the real trickle down. That's when the corporate RW mounted the successful corporate attack on The People. Watching and listening to their media pets rave about Rayguns made me nauseous. The propaganda assault was on. Remember: there was no Limpballs or POX media back then. The only thing slowing the corporo-fascists down was that there were still plenty of genuine Democrats in Congress. But the Blueprint would be followed on getting rid of them, too. It just took a few more years. Morning in America, alright.
Sadly, most people don't know Jill Stein from a groundhog. She's starting to make a dent in this ignorance, indifference and media hostility with Twitter etc., but it's probably too little and too late.
The Greens need to start developing their bench - should have started before 2012, probably. They'll need new faces in 2018 and 2020, just for starters.
You described my own personal version of libertarianism very well. I recognize that government can do amazing things. I also realize that a government powerful enough to do amazing things is also capable of atrocities. Government is a necessary evil, but make no mistake it is evil. I believe we're at the point that government is too powerful and completely unaccountable, and I'd rather scale it back than hope we can elect The Right Person. Sanders' campaign is evidence that The System will not allow The Right Person to have any power.
We all listened to the question, heard the clowns speak in turn, and then Jill took 90 seconds to state her position on the issue. And then went on with the debate.
So I heard the debate but didn't see it. Jill looked great and sounded clear and logical.
I do wonder what it was that "they" didn't want the public to hear, that they used many police officers to prevent, that they escorted her away from the scene and depositied her miles away, and arrested some 24 protesters. Just to keep the people from hearing what she had to say.
I assume this was all recorded somewhere, but I haven't found it yet.
Delivered one week early...anyone wonder why Hillary kept looking down at her notes? There's a story in the Baltimore Gazette today describing a fed ex delivery for Hillary that was too important to be left with a secretary so it was handed to Robby Mook last week....at the time there were media there and someone from Fox was confused why an NBC intern they recognized was wearing a fed ex outfit and delivering a package...when there was no fed ex truck outside...I guess once a cheat, always a cheat..
Comments
Awesome comment!
Started my day off with a great laugh! We all need a laugh looking at these two despicable candidates. Well done.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Great comment with one quibble
Even if Trump were president....my vote goes for Jackie being much more of a 'ravishing First Lady' than Melania.
There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams
No kidding!
And I wasn't even alive when she was first lady!
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
OMG, I am old! (n/t)
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
I was born five years later. :-)
So I'm no spring chicken either.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I am old enough
To have been skipping school with my friends. I got caught when I got home and wanted my parents to believe the teachers had not said anything about the assassination.
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.
Skipping school
I actually skipped school with some friends earlier in the week (I think it was on a Monday) to see JFK speak in Tampa at Al Lopez Field.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
me either :)
I was born a couple months after his death
There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams
Agreed.
Classy is beautiful. Jackie was so classy. Melania is not classy. That is the kindest way I can phrase it.
Two otherisms. Jackie spoke in a wealthy NE accent, Melania not.
American exceptionalism will arise over quaint differences like regional accents. Think of the actress jobs of Bacall and Katherine Hepburn and a few others. American accents, mostly NE, meant money, power and property, even if not so.
The other problem of Trump is a third marriage and offspring with each wife. He keeps down-trading in age, many people assume 30+ year age mismatches are power signs for one agent, accumulative signs in the other.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
WaveyDavey, that had to be
WaveyDavey, that had to be one of best debate transcripts EVAH! Thanks, I needed that.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Oh, but it was fun!
Of course you have to have a peculiar sense of humor (guilty). I knew from the get-go it was going to be a debate between a lying narcissist and a narcissistic liar. And we've all heard this crap before (even though many of us have tuned out further auditing)...Hillary won one point--no coughing. Some minor eye movement abnormalities. She parroted nice things about the economy which she shamelessly expropriated from Bernie. Nobody following this campaign can believe a single word she says. When challenged on the TPP and about Obama's championing of it, she wisely kept her mouth shut. That treaty will become law even before election day and Shillary will celebrate. I also give Medusa one more point for not collapsing. Her come-backs were inane. Her shameless plugging for her shameless book was astoundingly dumb.
Mr. Trump is no ideological role model but I don't believe he is anywhere near the war-monger she is. He didn't say anything great except when responding to Hillary's victimhood statement: "I'm sure that tonight, I'll be blamed for everything". DT then said tellingly "you should be".
By maintaining his bearing, including his courtesy in referring to the witch as Secretary Clinton, while she only called him Donald, lent him more classiness than she showed.
HRC is noted for talking over people. But Trump reined in her verbosity more than any others I have seen.
Score card:
Trump 1
Medusa 0
99% -99
Question re Iran as per HRC debate statement
I slept for a couple of years so missed this. HRC claims that before she took a hand in the Iran sanctions that Iran had the centrifuges a-spinning already. According to her, they had everything ready to launch a nuclear attack short of a target . Is this her WMD moment or was Iran really that far advanced? And if they were that far advanced, why had nothing been said before it got to that point?
To HRC (just cuz I got so tired of that shit-eating grin on her face all night):
[video:https://youtu.be/lRYiYfn7mq8]
Lyrics:
It's just the two of us
A silver cross
And some strength that you won't believe
See I'm not your friend
And I won't pretend
That I've come here for peace
Well I'm not afraid
I'm gonna make you pay
I'm gonna wipe that smile off your face
And this is war ...
And I'm gonna wipe that smile off your face
The time has come
To drop the bomb
On all the pain you've been selling
See I don't like you
Or your attitude
Or the company that you keep
And this is war ...
And I'm gonna wipe that smile off your face
And this is war ...
And I'm gonna wipe that smile off your face
It's just the two of us
A silver cross
And some strength that you won't believe
Well I'm not afraid
I'm gonna make you pay
I'm gonna wipe that smile off your face
It's war ...
And I'm gonna wipe that smile off your face
And this is war ...
And I'm gonna wipe that smile off your face, oh ...
And wipe that smile
And wipe that smile
I'm gonna wipe that smile off your face
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
She Took Credit For Kerry's Peace Deal. Fact? Check. nt
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
Not my question, but that is standard operating
procedure for her--taking credit for other's work (cf the children health bill that Kennedy and Hatch put together).
Regarding Iran she stated that they were on the verge (as in the next day it would have happened if not for her) of starting a nuclear war, and I was wondering how accurate this was/is? Or is this her WMD make the facts go away moment?
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
I think this is her WMD moment
as far as I can tell, Iran was mainly looking to go on domestic nuclear power. You know, to power their country. But I'll bow to anybody (trustworthy) with more expertise.
That's not Clinton, something her campaign refuses to face--the problem with touting her competence & experience is that those things are worth jack and shit if you consider someone completely untrustworthy.
I mean like, great, someone who's competent and experienced at FUCKING ME OVER.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
None of the "fact checkers" seem to have deemed this
important. In fact, they seem intent on only Trump's misstatements with little winks at the stuff we already knew like HRC's statement about "gold standard" TPP. If I find some energy, I will see what I can find, but right now it sounds like more saber rattling from HRC.
PS. I have little faith in "fact checkers" as they tend to only supply the facts (or leave out or twist) that "prove" their pre-determined stances.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
No, Iran was never that far advanced and there is no
proof that Iran has wanted to get that far towards developing a nuclear bomb. The Iran "deal" is a red herring in that it's based on a false premise, that Iran is a threat to develop a nuke bomb and a nuclear weapons program. It's not. Couple that with Israel's nuke weapons program which they and our own government won't admit to, the Iran deal is nothing but a geopolitical maneuver to set the stage for further action against Iran.
Thanks! I wanted to make sure that the feeling that
I got from her statement was accurate. She is setting the stage for war with Iran just as both Bushes did with Iraq. Is there anyone she is not willing to provoke a war with? From what I can see the answer is no, and she is willing to pull other countries in as "allies" which makes me also wonder if there is another motive behind the TPP besides trade.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
The TPP has very little to do
The TPP has very little to do with 'trade', as can be seen by the fact that very of little of it actually addresses anything purportedly 'trade' (divvying up the planet into markets/resources, human and otherwise) related - such as not allowing Canada to produce its own milk within 10 years, by which time nobody would be able to afford to buy it anyway, with wages competitive with Malaysian etc. slave-labour for those maximized profits - but everything to do with a mechanism used to place the domestic law of all involved people and countries under complete corporate control using an off-shored 'trade' court with corporate lawyers and judges, where the public interest has no standing and where only the anticipated maximized profits of involved corporations and billionaires are considered.
In any country illegally and unconstitutionally betrayed by traitorous public servants in such privately made agreements to dispose of what and who they do not own and are sworn to protect, any attempt to protect the public or environmental health or rights against any corporate abuses will result in any/all of thousands of involved corporations/billionaires suing that public for hundreds of millions or hundreds of billions of dollars (depending upon what they claim they had hoped to get in the future from freely polluting, producing unsafe products in unsafe workplaces, or whatever,) until the various publics have been bankrupted and are hopelessly in debt to international banksters, as with Greece.
It seems evident that any country not suckered into accepting such illegal and unconstitutional financial capture is to be either militarily conquered or, if large enough/capable of defending itself, such as Russia and China in the first instance and in the second, Iran, via conventional defence systems, even if (last I heard) aged/outdated, and possible others, such as Pakistan, nuked, using the resources of such 'trade deal'-entrapped countries, the US having the world's largest military and to be blowing (I believe?) over a billion of taxpayer money (withdrawn from the public good it's paid in for) on new nukes, it would seem in the interest of doing this.
The prospect of creating nuclear winter and of the retaliatory nuclear obliteration of much of North America doesn't appear to bother any of the conspirators, any more than does the prospect of otherwise polishing off life on the planet along with oxygen production within decades through even non-nuclear military and unlimited industrial pollution and destruction to be mandatory under corporate profiteering law throughout the globe.
Psychopaths are not great at understanding that even super-special, most clever they, may be subject to certain of the consequences of their own actions, rather than merely affecting the lesser beings they may find to be so entirely disposable. Even just regarding the abandonment of all safety regulation regarding everything they themselves use and consume. Or the crashing of financial markets which the public has no capacity to regulate or, any longer, bail out.
Anyone even potentially running now except for Bernie or Jill would go for this fatal disaster for short-term personal gain, including that TPP-supporting Libertarian, and I wish people understood what they are voting for with either of the evils, and how important it is to not repeatedly let the results of electoral cheating stand 'as a done deal'...
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
But what good does it do them
if no one can afford their shit, or everyone's dead? JFC I just don't get it.
This shit is bananas.
I did not watch.
From the clips, she seemed to be trying her best to sound like Sanders, especially in her opening statement, a relatively obvious attempt by her to woo Sanders voters. (What did Powell say about her? "Unbridled ambition.")
No surprise. She has a lot of experience at leading from behind, of finding a parade and getting in front of it--after pushing the real leader out of her way. However, almost everyone believed that Sanders actually meant what he said. Almost all Americans see through her insincere pandering for votes, whether they admit it or not.
Thanks everybody for observations.
Came here to get the real skinny on the debate as I did not watch it.
Thought it was a split decision
A lot of pundits remarked that Trump had lowered expectations and I found myself at the end applying this theory. He articulated conservative policies without sounding absolutely crazy. Some of the stuff actually sounded good. Hillary also got off good wonky statements. But Trump was better able to articulate the problems with America, and it seems that someone who can identify the problem is better suited to fixing it.
They both got off some good barbs. When Trump said the nation is broke, and she said that's because people like you pay no taxes, that was a home run. And she nailed him to the wall on his tax returns, landing a haymaker with the line "I don't think he'll ever release them." And WTF was up with his refusing to answer the question about what made him change his mind about Obama's birth certificate? 3 times asked, 3 times avoided, and opened the door for her to answer for him, a believable answer at that.
She was also able to push his buttons. It's so easy to do. He is so shallow, and that came across too. His constant repetitious interruptions were boorish and childish, but I don't think it affected his people at all.
Trump also got in a great barb, which caused the first audience reaction. It was understandable, because I believe it was slightly funny. But that just opened the door for her supporters in the audience to go tit-for-tat, so of course they had to have an equal number of cheer and applause interruptions. Typical Clintonian thinking - any excuse to abandon the rules.
In the end, the only people who this debate mattered for are the undecideds, and Trump may have been the more convincing. He was thin-skinned and petulant, but that's not a revelation. What is a revelation was that he's able to outline a general political philosophy. He didn't drown.
“He may not have gotten the words out but the thoughts were great.”
We learned that no matter who wins, we're totally
f***ed. Or rather, it was reaffirmed. Again.
I thought Trump came out strong but struggled when it came to foreign policy. He seemed to lose a lot of his energy toward the end. He articulated some things that I agree with, but his presentation was sloppy, rambling, and sometimes incoherent. However, he didn't come off as a lunatic fascist that wants to destroy the world, so I'd say it's a win for him. I was fairly certain that we'd see a repeat of the Carter-Reagan debates, where the Carter campaign spent so much time demonizing the challenger that by the time the debates happened and Americans saw that Reagan wasn't completely insane, he won by default. I think a more measured version of that happened last night.
Hillary, on the other hand, exuded inauthenticity and platitudes. Her multiple attempts to turn attacks on Trump into memes fell completely flat. I audibly groaned when she said "Trumped up trickle down." Are we back in high school now? I expect that childish nonsense from conservatives, but aren't "liberals" supposed to be better than that? Personally, I think that she did come off as more capable to be president, but she also showed that she's completely detached from the concerns of the average American and that she cares more about retaining power than actually fixing the country. At least Trump addressed the fact that the American working and middle class is rapidly declining--although his blame is completely misplaced--while Hillary didn't seem to give a shit and pretended like everything is great.
I watched the debate live with a group of friends last night. All of us are in our late 20s-early 30s, come from the working and middle classes, and span a range of racial/gender backgrounds and sexual orientations. Their reactions included phrases like, "This is the worst debate ever," "She's a f***ing liar," "If this is the choice, I'd rather not vote," "Pass me another beer," and "I'd rather have Harambe as president than these two clowns." Most of them used to be staunch Democrats. They're now independents. Most of them supported Bernie and would still vote for him today. Now, they're either not voting, going for Trump out of spite, or voting for Gary Johnson. Only a couple of us are voting for Jill Stein. None of us are voting for Hillary.
I figured you were a millennial.
The 1980 Carter-Reagan debate was the first major warning that the Powell Blueprint was being followed by corporate RWNJs. They were seeing great success w/it. This joke called a "debate" is simply the result of 36 years of the real trickle down. That's when the corporate RW mounted the successful corporate attack on The People. Watching and listening to their media pets rave about Rayguns made me nauseous. The propaganda assault was on. Remember: there was no Limpballs or POX media back then. The only thing slowing the corporo-fascists down was that there were still plenty of genuine Democrats in Congress. But the Blueprint would be followed on getting rid of them, too. It just took a few more years. Morning in America, alright.
Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.
Can't understand why so many like Gary.
Going from Bernie to Gary is odd.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
He's not Hillary, he's not Trump, and they don't know Jill
Sadly, most people don't know Jill Stein from a groundhog. She's starting to make a dent in this ignorance, indifference and media hostility with Twitter etc., but it's probably too little and too late.
The Greens need to start developing their bench - should have started before 2012, probably. They'll need new faces in 2018 and 2020, just for starters.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
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Precisely
You described my own personal version of libertarianism very well. I recognize that government can do amazing things. I also realize that a government powerful enough to do amazing things is also capable of atrocities. Government is a necessary evil, but make no mistake it is evil. I believe we're at the point that government is too powerful and completely unaccountable, and I'd rather scale it back than hope we can elect The Right Person. Sanders' campaign is evidence that The System will not allow The Right Person to have any power.
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Interesting
Interesting thoughts, thanks for sharing.
...to level the field, what
Government of, by and for the people, with equal rights and treatment for all.
None more equal than others, or somehow entitled to abuse them due to having power/wealth.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
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I watched Jill Stein's bootleg version of the debate.
We all listened to the question, heard the clowns speak in turn, and then Jill took 90 seconds to state her position on the issue. And then went on with the debate.
So I heard the debate but didn't see it. Jill looked great and sounded clear and logical.
I do wonder what it was that "they" didn't want the public to hear, that they used many police officers to prevent, that they escorted her away from the scene and depositied her miles away, and arrested some 24 protesters. Just to keep the people from hearing what she had to say.
I assume this was all recorded somewhere, but I haven't found it yet.
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
This pretty much sums it up
For me:
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
It helps when you get the debate questions
Delivered one week early...anyone wonder why Hillary kept looking down at her notes? There's a story in the Baltimore Gazette today describing a fed ex delivery for Hillary that was too important to be left with a secretary so it was handed to Robby Mook last week....at the time there were media there and someone from Fox was confused why an NBC intern they recognized was wearing a fed ex outfit and delivering a package...when there was no fed ex truck outside...I guess once a cheat, always a cheat..
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